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Maybe Apple could make Snapple into their official drink.

Yet another proof for Arnold J. Rimmers theory how wrong + wrong + wrong = right. (I *always* got a pen!)

I don't know, but I'm absolutely positive that I do not wish to try installing OSX on my TI-83+

The models are actually rather old. Back then 512 bit used to be enough. TI has newer models that have far stronger cryptography.

That means that you could use rot13 and be safe because DMCA forbids breaking crypto? Or did I missunderstand something? (I don't live in USA, so DMCA doesn't mean anything to me)

The DMCA prohibits defeating a technological measure that restricts access to a copyrighted work. So, if some company or individual somewhere releases a copyrighted text, and they "encrypt" it by running it thru rot13... then yes, if they can convince a court of law that rot13 qualifies as a "technological protection measure," then it would be illegal to decrypt that document.

I don't know what the qualifications are to be considered a "technological protection measure," tho. If the DMCA includes minimum requirements, then rot13 may not meet them; if it doesn't, then it might be up to a court of law to decide if something as trivial as rot13 could reasonably be called a technological protection measure.

Obviously: IANAL

Edited 2009-10-14 22:48 UTC

That means that you could use rot13 and be safe because DMCA forbids breaking crypto? Or did I missunderstand something? (I don't live in USA, so DMCA doesn't mean anything to me) "

Yes. Someone once got sued over 'decrypting' base64 encoding. I don't recall who or for what, and I cannot remember if they won in court, but it happened. A lot of people cannot afford to go to court and prove that it's a ridiculous claim, so companies can get away with this kind of thing.

The DMCA is an implementation of two of the WIPO treaties. Chances are that if you live in a united nations country, you have something like it.

You made my laugh :-) I was just in need for some humor. Working on my thesis, boring. I guess the TI guys have spend years on their thesis. They must be bored to hell to come up with this kind of crap.

I just wonder, how was a 512 bit key cracked? That means that much of the current PKI structure is unsafe.

Distributed.net was used, IIRC.

They never broke the law. There were no modifications made to TI-OS (which is actually distributed freely). TI does not in any way own the hardware after selling it. All they did was make it possible to have greater control over the HARDWARE. TI has never complained when people made 3rd-party OS's, which have been available for over 5 years; I actually was part of a group who developed one in high school. Even without the keys, one could easily send an alternative OS to a calculator. This just makes it easier.

You've completely misinterpreted US law. Buying hardware in the US doesn't constitute buying a license. You're paying for hardware and you're getting hardware. Under US law, you're entitled to do whatever you want with the hardware you own. But Appple, in it's DRM frenzy and knee-jerk litigiousness hopes to make a precedent with companies like Pystar. And TI is hoping to capitalize on Apple's litigation to keep people from hacking the calculators they bought and paid for.

Under your premise, if you buy a car in the US, then it comes with a drivers license that only allows you, the owner to drive it?


Here's another example of your faulty premise....I buy a Chevy automobile and Chevy says that unless I put Exxon gasoline in the tank, then I'm breaking the law. That's just ignorant!

Ferrels... it was sarcasm.

:-) You got me good! I gotta get out of this office more!

S'Okay, Emily Litella. :-P

Edited 2009-10-16 02:18 UTC

Dude you are right.

Its like buying a car and also purchasing that red Calvin Klien underwear, or even lingerie.

Cars cannot be driven by anyone else.
The car has a digitizer. Your thumb print is the only one allowed. You cannot sell it. if you do then you can be jained.. (Non-autodusk). Cos they cant make money from it.

You can wear red underwear only on fridays.
If you wear it on any other day , they will conficicate the same and leave you in jail without the underwear.

The lingerie should be worn only by the designater woman you buy it for.If your girl and wife both have this lovely shape that you can use it here and there... then sorry, they have the right to come into your bed room and conficicate the firl / wife and the lingerie.

Now THERE's an idea. Quick - someone get me a cardboard box and a marker to write "Duplicator" on it so I can backup my hardware Calvin and Hobbes-style.

In addition, everyone, repeat after me: TI is a SOFTWARE company. It makes its profits on that there Software. It only sells the hardware as a favor. As a vehicle for its software. These people who are trying to unbundle hardware and software are threatening the revenue stream of one of our great creative companies. Yes, this thing has to be stopped in its tracks right now, to safeguard the position of TI and its unique integrated systems model.

See, its the integration of hardware and software that makes this software company so unique. They develop it all in house. The hardware is made for the software and vice versa.

We must not let this be put at risk!

Only if you bundle them and sell them to a 3rd party.

Maybe Apple and TI will sue each other.

That would be cheating, not plagiarism.

And yes, that's what I used to do on my TI-83. I wouldn't have passed some tests in high school without my mad TI-83 programming skills.

Back in my day, we just wrote all of the formulas on the backs of our calculators (in pencil).

When I last took a calculus class, the instructor allowed NO CALCULATORS.

None of this silliness with banning some and allowing some depending on the level of programmability.

It meant that the teacher actually had to grade the answers by hand, and the text was shorter because you can only do so much by hand.

That approach still resonates with me.

I know what you mean, there weren't any math classes that allowed calculators, and sneaking one in was an easy way to get yourself a 0 if caught. Im only 27 so it wasn't all that long ago... A few fellow nerds did get around it by wearing those calculator watches but still you should know how to do the work and using a calculator is kinda cheap way out (or a way for schools to get pad grades for funding in the future)

I'm a few years older, but the attitude of most of high school math teachers was basically "you're not in elementary school anymore, I assume that you know how to do basic arithmetic by now, so I don't care whether or not you use a calculator."

I think (hope) the concern is with calculators that can do more than basic arithmetic

True (I'd meant to include a note in my previous post that there wasn't anything higher-end than a $20-$30 "scientific" calculator in my HS math classes).

You guys don't seem to understand what exactly is going on. I have actually been following this since the summer, and I have been part of the TI Community for several years (go ahead, call me a geek). Let me clear some things up:
1) JayDee, this is about 3rd-party operating systems, not adding things to a TI operating system. Besides, adding another menu is a feature found in several applications, and does not involve making changes to the OS, making it perfectly legal. It is done using things like keyhooks. TI allows it, TI does it (Catalog Help is an example, link below).

2) Sending an alternative OS is legal. TI does not own the operating systems, and have no legal control over its distribution. They are made from scratch, not from the TI-OS.

3) The OS's available (at least currently) are in no way practical. None of them are even close to finished, since it takes so long to develop an OS, especially when you are still a kid. The developers either give up or get involved in something else (dating for example, lol). The OSs are simply recreational, and are only made to show that they can be made. One of them is little more than a pong game (link below)! The one I worked on was Vera (link below), but activity slowly dropped and eventually stopped all together. The public release only shows some tests.

4) Having the keys does not make it possible to install 3rd-party OSs. That has been possible (and easy) for a long time. All it does is make it easier.

Hopefully that clears some things up for those who had a girlfriend in high school.

Links:
Catalog Help
http://education.ti.com/educationportal/downloadcenter/SoftwareDeta...

PongOS
http://www.ticalc.org/archives/files/fileinfo/350/35058.html

Vera OS
http://timendus.student.utwente.nl/~vera/wiki/index.php/Main_Page

If school was meant to mimic the real world, then a student's ability to cheat without getting caught would be rewarded.

That is the nature of the real world. It doesn't matter if you actually know anything, it is merely whether or not you can make the guy paying you think you know what he needs you to know.

It doesn't matter if you have to use some tricked-up tool to get the job done, the job gets done and done well enough to please the boss so that you get your paycheck so you can buy food, go home, and smoke some grass.

That is what is real.

--The loon

Something like that has been around for many years already, and is much simpler. There's a free program to falsely show the TI memory as being reset or empty, even when the calc is loaded with helper applications or notes.

If a calculator makes any difference on whether you pass the test or not, there is something wrong with the test.

A good test should be designed in a way that you can bring books, calculators, or anything you want except a friend to help you.

Of course, I wouldn't need to replace the firmware to make a very effective cheating device.

Device boots up into a shell that looks and acts exactly like a TI-83+. Teacher issues reset command. Device appears to be wiped clean.

Now, I enter a password into it, which drops it out of the shell... into my completely unharmed device, with all of my notes and programs and such designed to cheat with.

Not only has this been done before, half the apps on ticalc.org are apps designed specifically for this purpose. (The other half are games, of course.)

Now, using that, you can use other apps to get features from banned calculators - there are various third-party apps out there that can give a TI-83+ just about every capability that a TI-89 has.

Note that none of this involved hacking the OS, it was all done with applications running on top of the completely unmodified OS, and using TI's startup program. I believe that approach is even resilient against attacks involving removing the batteries.

Pretty much yeah... I recall hacking apps for the Prosit kernel on Ti 68k, that was fun.
http://www.ticalc.org/archives/files/fileinfo/105/10511.html


Well actually there are still some rare people making demos on Ti calcs...
hopefully we'll get some at the Alchimie 2k9!
http://triplea.fr/alchimie/

Something tells me that these are people who either learned Z80 by programming Spectrums or CPCs in their youth or who are holdovers from the golden age of TI hacking. New kids just aren't coming into the scene as fast as older folks are leaving it.

Something tells me that these are people who either learned Z80 by programming Spectrums or CPCs in their youth or who are holdovers from the golden age of TI hacking. New kids just aren't coming into the scene as fast as older folks are leaving it. "
You are right. Over the last few years the population of the "TI Community" has been dropping. It used to be that at the beginning of every school year tons of people would join forums. These days, only people who have a real interest in programming join.

From "Mirage OS"

Yeah, people almost always refer to their shells as OSs. The only true alternative OSs are far from being finished.

Nobody is going to make an OS for cheating either. It is way easier to make programs for cheating on a TI OS, so I doubt TI is worried about that (I don't know what they actually are worried about though).

6502 forever!

I miss programming my BBC B...

Wow. Instant walk down memory lane. Ahhhh...