Linked by Kevin Miller on Thu 15th Oct 2009 22:16 UTC
BeOS & Derivatives Today marks an entire week of using Haiku as my primary operating system. This is my first PC to get the most out of any BeOS related operating system to date. My old 200MHz Toshiba ran R5 PE just fine but without any networking. My eMachine ran Zeta just fine, but once again, there were networking issues (and Zeta was pronounced dead around this time). In the age of the Internet, this pretty much forced me away from BeOS and its decendants until now.
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v Haiku as your main OS you said?
by Eugenia on Thu 15th Oct 2009 22:56 UTC
sbenitezb Member since:
2005-07-22

It depends on how much you rely on web apps and modern internet technologies. I find most of my web browsing habits can be accomplished with any browser, even elinks. I gave up on almost anything and went back to simple text based tools for most stuff. It works well, so it is possible.

Us techies/geeks have very different ways of interacting with our computers than other people, so we surely don't need Mac OSX to make good use of our stuff. In fact, xmonad, opera, mplayer, rtorrent and alpine is all I need and I don't regret going the simple way. It's wonderfully simple once you get the hold of it, not matter what others think.

So I think, even when Haiku is not yet ready, it is possible to do something with it.

Reply Score: 10

RE: Haiku as your main OS you said?
by Zenja on Thu 15th Oct 2009 23:28 UTC in reply to "Haiku as your main OS you said?"
Zenja Member since:
2005-07-06

Give it time, Eugenia. I'm confident that within 4 years, Haiku will reach the maturity/usability of popular Linux distros, and after that, it will definately be the 3rd most popular desktop OS. All it takes is a little bit of time.

Yes, it will take another decade until it has the polish of Windows/MacOSX. Most of us here on OSNews can live with the rough/sharp edges of these young OS's. We're enjoying it right now, and we look forward to watching it mature and grow.

Reply Score: 8

_xmv Member since:
2008-12-09

i fear you're being over confident (by a large margin)
but hell, that would be nice ;)

Reply Score: 3

flanque Member since:
2005-12-15

And Linux will be another 4 years ahead.

Reply Score: 3

cjst Member since:
2009-03-30

Linux in 4 years will still be using the "bazaar" model for most of it's userland. So it will still be an unpolished incoherent OS with little attention to detail. That has no hope of getting ever fixed.
Also at the current rate, in 4 years Linux will require a 50 core CPU with 50 Gigs of RAM to be able to run decently as a desktop. So that's why even waiting 20 years for Haiku is preferable.

Reply Score: 3

ricegf Member since:
2007-04-25

Hmmm. Partisan much?

So you seem to be arguing that in 4 years, Haiku will *not* be using the bazaar model. Which corporation do you expect to take Haiku proprietary? And via what legal loophole?

Linux currently runs on everything from a watch to a bevy of smart phones to a supercomputer. What leads you to believe that in only 4 years it will require the supercomputer?

And wouldn't "unpolished incoherent OS with little attention to detail" better fit Vista than Linux (the Gimp notwithstanding)? Like, say,
http://www.marcorolandi.com/imgs/just4fun.jpg?

I've nothing against Haiku - looks promising if still a bit immature - but you don't have to hate Linux to like Haiku. IDIC, dude.

Reply Score: 7

zlynx Member since:
2005-07-20

It isn't the Linux kernel that is the problem. It's the "Linux" userspace.

Developers aren't taking any care with RAM requirements. They hardly ever test with serious amounts of data (Nobody has 500,000 emails in their IMAP. That would be crazy!). They don't stop to think about performance issues with 4,200 RPM laptop drives (We will have our file picker seek all over the disk to read an icon for each file in the directory! Oh, we never tested that with 10,000 files...) And they never examine the disk seek behavior of their application on a cold cache start (Oh, Firefox can read every little xul and css and jar file one at a time to start up...Windows Vista will preload all that for us!)

Etc.

Reply Score: 2

ricegf Member since:
2007-04-25

Really? Could be, I suppose. I have 14,044 emails via IMAP at the moment without a problem, but I could just be lucky. Or maybe I receive unusually small emails?

Now, 10,000 files in one directory? That's pathological! :-) I created one just to test and opened it on both XP (2 seconds) and Mint with Gnome (35 seconds), so our experiences jive there.

However, Firefox launches *far* faster on Linux than IE7 on XP, even comparing my Linux Starling netbook to my D630 XP notebook. It's more stable, too. And it handles tabs much, much better - on XP, IE7 takes 6-7 seconds before a new tab is available to use (the tab says "Connecting..." until then, and IE7 is frozen), while Firefox opens a new tab as fast as I can type on every Linux machine I've used. But again, perhaps my Linux is better configured than yours. Or perhaps my XP machine (last 3 XP machines, actually ;) ) is badly configured?

I suppose YMMV is the watchword of the day. Overall, though, I find that I'm far more productive on Linux than on XP. We'll see about 7 when it's released next week. :-)

Reply Score: 1

Vanders Member since:
2005-07-06

Now, 10,000 files in one directory? That's pathological! :-) I created one just to test and opened it...with Gnome (35 seconds)


That makes me feel better about the performance of Whisper at least.

Reply Score: 2

ari-free Member since:
2007-01-22

"And Linux will be another 4 years ahead."

linux is just a kernel. There's still no standard linux OS yet

Reply Score: 2

flanque Member since:
2005-12-15

Yeah, technically, but the word is treated by the majority of people as the desktop experience, or the OS entirely.

When they advertise Linux on PCs at the shops they don't mean the kernel on its own.

Reply Score: 3

StephenBeDoper Member since:
2005-07-06

And Linux will be another 4 years ahead.


We might as well argue whether a tractor is better than a motorcycle, because Linux and Haiku have about that much in common.

"Your motorcycle sucks because it can't haul out tree stumps as well as my John Deere."
"Oh yeah? Well your tractor has horrible acceleration!"

See how absurd that sounds?

Reply Score: 3

flanque Member since:
2005-12-15

That's not a very good analogy. Is Linux the tractor or the motorcycle?

Reply Score: 2

umccullough Member since:
2006-01-26

That's not a very good analogy. Is Linux the tractor or the motorcycle?


Actually, I thought it was the tank.

Reply Score: 3

StephenBeDoper Member since:
2005-07-06

That's not a very good analogy.


Because...?

Is Linux the tractor or the motorcycle?


The tractor - Linux is a heavyweight, industrial-strength OS. Haiku, by contrast, is meant to be small, fast, simple, and focused mainly on desktops.

Reply Score: 2

umccullough Member since:
2006-01-26

But if you are into the Internet age, then Haiku doesn't cut it. Let's face it and not hide behind our finger for the sake of supporting an OS project.


Pretty vague statements I think...

Most of my internet uses are indeed supported by Haiku's BezillaBrowser.

The major missing feature is Flash support... which I'm guess you probably rely on pretty heavily?

FF2 does also lack speed and better Javascript/HTML5 support that we expect from newer browsers. Google Wave for example, doesn't quite work in Haiku ;)

I also run Haiku ~75% of the time I fire up my AOA150. I've been using the experimental wifi driver, with my router currently unsecured (I essentially live in the middle of nowhere, so this isn't a huge deal for me). I can chat on IRC, surf the web, read emails, and work on some porting projects. This is pretty much the bulk of my evening computer usage anyway, so I'd say it's pretty close to being my primary OS as well ;)

Reply Score: 8

frood Member since:
2005-07-06

I spend much of my time in a terminal, so the browser issue isn't such a big deal for me either. As long as I can get to OSnews!

Regarding the unsecured wifi.. if I locked down my router to only allow my Haiku machines MAC address, would that work? Would give a small amount of security at least. How about hiding the SSID also?

Reply Score: 1

umccullough Member since:
2006-01-26

I spend much of my time in a terminal, so the browser issue isn't such a big deal for me either. As long as I can get to OSnews!

Regarding the unsecured wifi.. if I locked down my router to only allow my Haiku machines MAC address, would that work? Would give a small amount of security at least. How about hiding the SSID also?


Hiding the SSID won't help because the experimental wifi stack doesn't allow you to specify one yet (it just searches for the strongest unsecured network it can find).

As for MAC filtering - that would probably keep the majority of people from utilizing your connection, but keep in mind it 1) doesn't encrypt your traffic (so always make sure to use https and ssh for remote connections you want secured) and 2) can be thwarted by cloning the MAC on another machine (this would require someone to be snooping traffic to determine which MACs are in the area, and cloning them until they find one that seems to work).

Reply Score: 2

Lennie Member since:
2007-09-22

I'm like Theo de Raadt, I don't trust wireless encryption, I use would use a VPN.

Reply Score: 2

frood Member since:
2005-07-06

Yeah, at the moment I'm thinking sending all traffic down an SSH tunnel. How much of what we're talking about is supported in Haiki, I'm not sure.

Reply Score: 1

umccullough Member since:
2006-01-26

Yeah, at the moment I'm thinking sending all traffic down an SSH tunnel. How much of what we're talking about is supported in Haiki, I'm not sure.


Not entirely sure what you're asking there...

But Haiku's browser (based on Firefox 2) supports https and Haiku R1/Alpha1 comes with OpenSSH already installed, so you can use ssh/scp from a terminal to your heart's content ;)

I don't think Haiku supports IPSec or ssh tunneling of all traffic at the netstack level yet...

Edited 2009-10-16 17:57 UTC

Reply Score: 2

Soulbender Member since:
2005-08-18

I've been using the experimental wifi driver, with my router currently unsecured (I essentially live in the middle of nowhere, so this isn't a huge deal for me).


If it doesn't support WPA1/2 or even WEP this is pretty much a showstopper for any normal person.

Reply Score: 4

StephenBeDoper Member since:
2005-07-06

"I've been using the experimental wifi driver, with my router currently unsecured (I essentially live in the middle of nowhere, so this isn't a huge deal for me).


If it doesn't support WPA1/2 or even WEP this is pretty much a showstopper for any normal person.
"

A non-issue currently - Haiku itself isn't meant for "normal users" at this point, and the wifi support isn't included or enabled by default. Anyone who installs experimental software on an Alpha OS probably isn't a "normal user."

And I highly doubt that the developers plan to release a final/stable version without any encryption support.

Reply Score: 2

ari-free Member since:
2007-01-22

What people used to say about mozilla:
"If you are not interested in a browser that actually works adequately and without major slow-downs and crashes, then sure, it's a good deal. But if you are into the Internet age, then Mozilla doesn't cut it. Let's face it and not hide behind our finger for the sake of supporting a browser project. I loved Netscape , I like Mozilla as an idea, and I wish the best for the project. But I would never use it as my main browser. It doesn't do anything that I want to do properly."

Fortunately the mozilla people didn't really care and despite IE dominance and AOL despair (http://www.jwz.org/gruntle/nomo.html), they pulled off firefox and now it is very popular.

Reply Score: 10

REM2000 Member since:
2006-07-25

playing devil's advocate, Mozilla was in a slightly different position as it could be installed along side IE without having to reboot or do anything else with the computer.

Which is not to say that it's not a great OS, as i too was blown away by BE R5 at the speed and layout of the UI.Im currently downloading the alpha to, which from screen shots and reviews hints at something which is classed as a beta with other OS's/Software

Reply Score: 2

ari-free Member since:
2007-01-22

"playing devil's advocate, Mozilla was in a slightly different position as it could be installed along side IE without having to reboot or do anything else with the computer."

At that time, IE dominance was so strong that there was a real concern that eventually you wouldn't be able to use the web without IE. If mozilla wasn't amazingly successful, it would've been a pointless waste of time. People criticized mozilla all the time. But they didn't give up.

Now we have webkit and gecko and it is very easy for any altOS to have a browser that actually works. Haiku isn't doomed; it just needs more help on bezilla and the webkit browser.

Edited 2009-10-16 17:56 UTC

Reply Score: 2

emerson999 Member since:
2007-12-08

Have to agree with you on this one. I gave it a shot on my netbook, but it's just not ready for me yet. I could do without the flash, but no flash, in progress wifi, and firefox 2.x combined just didn't cut it. I'm not even fond of using firefox 3.x with JIT for webapps compared to chromium, and 2.x was painful.

It reminds me a bit of kde 4.0. Great framework, but it needs applications to be built on it still. Better network drivers, and a webkit based browser will increase the usability by bounds.

Still not sure about the flash thing though. I mean, giving up hulu? Not a fun idea.

Reply Score: 2

RE: Haiku as your main OS you said?
by blitze on Fri 16th Oct 2009 11:04 UTC in reply to "Haiku as your main OS you said?"
blitze Member since:
2006-09-15

Considering Eugenia has been slagging of Haiku since its inception I wouldn't expect much else from her.

Face it BeOS is dead and out of all the contenders to carry the mantle, Haiku has been the one to deliver the goods. Support of stick with your beloved OS-X or what ever makes you feel good. When it comes to the desktop nothing can deliver variety of apps like Windows can but yet we still see many use alternatives and Haiku is nothing more than one of the alternatives at this stage.

Would you prefer they just roll over an play dead?

Reply Score: 7

boldingd Member since:
2009-02-19

Very stupid, uninformed comment/question on my part, but: I'd expect that the Alpha release, and most of the development leading up to it, would be about creating stable-and-working system-level software, with userspace apps to follow. Given that there's (apparently) a fair amount of community enthusiasm, and given that it supports a POSIX compatability system (doesn't it?), I'd be real surprised if user-space third-party apps didn't start appearing pretty quickly, once the core OS stabilizes. I mean, how hard is it to port, say, Vim, Gnash, ffmpeg, or the WebKit or Gecko engines to a new POSIX environment?

Reply Score: 4

umccullough Member since:
2006-01-26

I mean, how hard is it to port, say, Vim, Gnash, ffmpeg, or the WebKit or Gecko engines to a new POSIX environment?


Well, POSIX isn't the end-all-be-all of compatibility layers... (and yes, Haiku has a pretty rich POSIX layer, compared to BeOS)

Vim was actually included with Haiku R1/Alpha1.

A Gnash port does exist (and even has a BeZillaBrowser plugin), but has about a dozen dependencies in grand FOSS style (making it a nasty port), and it still needs to be updated for the R1/Alpha1 build of Haiku. I found it rather sluggish in Haiku, however...

Haiku already includes an ffmpeg backend as a media kit plugin for decoding of many audio/video formats.

Haiku's BeZillaBrowser is based on Firefox 2, so contains Gecko, sadly, FF3 and newer requires a port of Cairo which... still remains in a partially-ported state, and nobody seems interested in stepping forward to finish it.

Webkit is ported, and most of the patches are already pushed upstream - there is a project to build a native browser on top of Webkit already, but the progress hasn't been super fast yet.

Any others you'd like to inquire about?

This is a good place to see various ports that have been attempted: http://ports.haiku-files.org/wiki/PortLog#PortLog

Reply Score: 3

boldingd Member since:
2009-02-19

I worded my post poorly; what I was trying to say was: "this is the get-the-system-working phase, the add-useful-applications phase will come later, and probably won't be too bad for FOSS software."

Reply Score: 2

Tuishimi Member since:
2005-07-06

I love the Haiku project and used BeOS R5 as my primary system years ago, but Eugenia is correct in the sense that Haiku is NOT ready to be used as a primary desktop. Not yet. Not for me anyway, nor for the vast majority of users. I am glad the OP is enjoying it.

But man oh man do I hope they keep up the good work! ;)

Reply Score: 2

Eddyspeeder Member since:
2006-05-10

As someone who, until July, has used Zeta (BeOS derivate) as main (and only!) OS at home, I think I have a say in this, and I agree with Tuishimi.

Several basic operations cannot be done. Many Flash sites (there are many, even ones you'll need), many Java sites (internet banking, to name an example) - you can pretty much forget about those to be accessible.

Then let's talk about Office compatibility. DOCX... XLSX... no? Oh. DOC support is minimal. You're not able to even import graphics embedded within the documents. So the only thing you can turn to is Google Docs. It's a life saver!

I also started missing Skype support by the way.

Conclusion: I still love BeOS and would switch to Haiku in a heartbeat if I could run it as my primary OS. I'm currently very happy to not have these limitations anymore under Mac OS X. So I agree with Eugenia and Tuishimi... it is not really possible at this point. I've accepted & lived with the impairments for several years and now they have gotten to a point where they are too difficult to handle, I had to make a switch to a different OS. This is the reality right now.

P.S.: Note that I do *NOT* wish to complain about these impairments. I voluntarily chose to accept the lack of support of some technological advancements and I was okay with it. I still do not regret it and I commend this article's author to have given it a shot.

Reply Score: 2

blitze Member since:
2006-09-15

Ok, what part of Alpha Software don't people get? Of course Haiku ain't ready for mainstream computing yet. I would hope that by Beta stage there is more usability for the OS and some app development along the lines of:

Office app that is Haiku Native like GOBE Productive BUT supports Open Office File Formats (don't want OO just a Haiku Native app that is read/write compatible with PDF support as well).

Soundplay, been a great little audio player for BeOS and shouldn't take much to take across to Haiku.

VideoLAN but a current build

A native browser or Opera 10 which ever.

A Skype like app that is native and allows Skype users to communicate.

That would be great for starters and then moving on apps that really take on the media capabilities that Haiku following in BeOS footsteps, can deliver.

Audio - something like Reaper but Haiku Native

Video - something semi pro to start with handling of multiple audio and video streams edited on the same timeline with chapter marking andd DVD/BlueRay Disc Authoring from the same app. I hate Premier/Encore where you have to move between them. Again, Haiku Native and ready for a step up to x64 when Haiku moves into that sphere. Still given how capable BeOS was back in the day of minuscule ram requirements and I did do video editing on it, x86 would still have plenty to offer.

But back to now, it's Alpha Release 1 software and for that Haiku is pretty darn good.

Reply Score: 3

StephenBeDoper Member since:
2005-07-06

If you are not interested in a browser that actually works adequately and without major slow-downs and crashes, then sure, it's a good deal. But if you are into the Internet age, then Haiku doesn't cut it.


I beg to differ - I've personally used plain 'ol R5 on my main work computer since mid-2003. In fact this is for a company that mainly focuses on Internet-related services, so I'm a bit puzzled by the "if you are into the Internet age, then Haiku doesn't cut it" claim.

I like Haiku as an idea, and I wish the best for the project.


You've chosen some strange ways of expressing those sentiments.

http://www.osnews.com/story/8114

But I would never use it as my main OS. It doesn't do anything that I want to do properly.


So don't use it, no (reasonable) person will fault you for that. But why crap on someone whose needs it DOES meet?

Reply Score: 4

Wonderful review!
by kwag on Thu 15th Oct 2009 23:01 UTC
kwag
Member since:
2006-08-31

I've also been using Haiku as my main OS for about two weeks now.
I'm also doing regular SVN updates/Builds locally, and Haiku today (Oct. 15) it's WAY better than the A1R1 released a month ago.
Hell, it's even got WiFI (unencrypted on Atheros), which wasn't available a month ago.
Even though it's called an Alpha release, I find it way better than may other Beta releases on other OS'es.
I guess the Alpha tag is really related to unavailability of devices supported at this time. If thing keep up developing at this pace, I wonder what Haiku will look like in six months!

Great work Haiku team, and great review Kevin!

Reply Score: 5

I have to give Haiku one thing
by license_2_blather on Thu 15th Oct 2009 23:59 UTC
license_2_blather
Member since:
2006-02-05

10-second desktop from power-off on a netbook is not bad.

I'm probably like Eugenia in that I would miss functionality I have on my Windows and Linux (and even OpenBSD ;) boxes, but for a surfing/email-reading terminal (which is all I think I could use a netbook for), maybe it's not so much a handicap.

Reply Score: 4

umccullough Member since:
2006-01-26

10-second desktop from power-off on a netbook is not bad.


Well... to be fair, on my AA1, it's 12 seconds from bootman to desktop (bootman being the multi-partition chainloading bootloader that Haiku comes with).

It seems like most of the time is spent waiting for POST ;)

Edited 2009-10-16 00:05 UTC

Reply Score: 3

Screenshots?
by dhave on Fri 16th Oct 2009 00:13 UTC
dhave
Member since:
2006-02-10

A few screenshots would be very nice.

Reply Score: 1

RE: Screenshots?
by cb88 on Fri 16th Oct 2009 00:45 UTC in reply to "Screenshots?"
cb88 Member since:
2009-04-23

http://www.haiku-os.org/slideshows/haiku-tour

you have to click through the install to get to what the desktop looks like

Reply Score: 3

Comment by divide_by_zero
by divide_by_zero on Fri 16th Oct 2009 04:30 UTC
divide_by_zero
Member since:
2009-07-11

Great report, thanks! I wish you had gone a little more into the actual "review", I know very little about BeOS, and I would like to read a little more about it before trying a install.

It's interesting to see that Flash and wi-fi are the greatest issues in a project that is so different from the usual FLOSS suspects. It shows that it's not just paranoia. these things are really inherently more complicated to deal with, and the industry made bad choices when developing them.

Reply Score: 5

State of Haiku
by matako on Fri 16th Oct 2009 07:19 UTC
matako
Member since:
2009-02-13

While not ready yet for the mainstream, current versions are good enough to do serious Haiku programming which would tipically include looking things up on the net etc. Already a huge advantage over cross-compiling.

Besides... bug hunting should be the prime entertainment on Haiku right now - Flash videos would only distract you ;)

Reply Score: 5

Reactivity?
by renox on Fri 16th Oct 2009 12:03 UTC
renox
Member since:
2005-07-06

This review don't speak at all about the main point of BeOS: reactivity!
Does Haiku manage to reproduce this BeOS feature of having a snappy user interface?

IMHO, that was the main selling point of BeOS and Linux and Windows still don't have this 'feature' (on computers much more powerful :-( ), so if Haiku manage to reproduce it then it's interesting to use, otherwise why bother?
Especially as with SSDs and programs adaptions to multi-core, mainstream OS may become finally responsive..

Reply Score: 3

RE: Reactivity?
by Eddyspeeder on Fri 16th Oct 2009 22:17 UTC in reply to "Reactivity?"
Eddyspeeder Member since:
2006-05-10

Actually, Thom already positively answered that in his review, and he was even under VESA mode.

Reply Score: 1

RE: Reactivity?
by StephenBeDoper on Sat 17th Oct 2009 03:49 UTC in reply to "Reactivity?"
StephenBeDoper Member since:
2005-07-06

This review don't speak at all about the main point of BeOS: reactivity!
Does Haiku manage to reproduce this BeOS feature of having a snappy user interface?


FWIW: from playing around with the pre-Alpha and the Alpha release, I've found it to be noticeably faster than R5 on the same hardware.

Reply Score: 2

.
by krzabr on Fri 16th Oct 2009 12:53 UTC
krzabr
Member since:
2009-09-14

In my opinion Haiku should be optimilised for netbooks only there this OS would have a chance to became popular .

Reply Score: 4

Might play this weekend
by Drunkula on Fri 16th Oct 2009 12:54 UTC
Drunkula
Member since:
2009-09-03

I've loved BeOS since before it was even ported to x86. Bought it when it was ported and V3 and subsequently bought 5 Pro. Tried the Zeta live CD some time back and it was okay but slow. Might have to give it a shot this weekend just for old times sake.

Reply Score: 1

PCMCIA support
by 4nntt on Fri 16th Oct 2009 13:47 UTC
4nntt
Member since:
2009-02-12

I have a laptop I've been saving to run Haiku on, but it doesn't have built in ethernet or USB2. Is there support for the PCMCIA bus being worked on?

Reply Score: 2

RE: PCMCIA support
by umccullough on Fri 16th Oct 2009 15:03 UTC in reply to "PCMCIA support"
umccullough Member since:
2006-01-26

I have a laptop I've been saving to run Haiku on, but it doesn't have built in ethernet or USB2. Is there support for the PCMCIA bus being worked on?


Sadly, not at the moment ;)

I have several old laptops with PCMCIA card slots also, but the general opinion is that PCMCIA is not all that important at the moment.

On the other hand, I have two different USB wired ethernet adapters that work (one is Pegasus based and has a driver included with Haiku, the other as ASIX based, which requires compiling the usb_asix driver manually from the Haiku repo as it was still buggy when Alpha 1 was done, although a major bug was just fixed in it!) They should work in USB 1.1 ports also, albeit slower ;)

Reply Score: 4

Thanks for the bug reports
by braddock on Fri 16th Oct 2009 15:37 UTC
braddock
Member since:
2005-07-08

If everyone who tried an Open Source project submitted bug reports like the reviewer did, the world would be a better place.

Reply Score: 6

My BeOS PC...
by JacobMunoz on Fri 16th Oct 2009 15:54 UTC
JacobMunoz
Member since:
2006-03-17

...a meager 766Mhz 512MB Athlon with ISA soundcard, and BT484 video capture card booted in 8.6 seconds!

Then, after the startup music - absolute silence. No mysterious hard drive activity, period.

And true drag-and-drop drivers. THAT made BeOS stand out!

And the only "hourglass icon" I ever saw was part of an application that rendered landscapes (which took a few seconds). I absolutely HATE hourglass icons - no matter how pretty they try to make them, it's just decoration for a total failure of design. Whether it's Vista & 7's "ring of eternity", OS X's "magical pinwheel of duh", or the completely retarded XP "pointer + hourglass" which means what exactly:

"Oh, the system's having a seizure. But you might as well try to click something and bring it totally to it's knees."

It makes me miss 1999.

Reply Score: 5

RE: My BeOS PC...
by umccullough on Fri 16th Oct 2009 16:43 UTC in reply to "My BeOS PC..."
umccullough Member since:
2006-01-26

And the only "hourglass icon" I ever saw was part of an application that rendered landscapes (which took a few seconds).


Funny, I thought BeOS never even had an hourglass cursor created for it...

Reply Score: 2

RE[2]: My BeOS PC...
by JacobMunoz on Fri 16th Oct 2009 18:26 UTC in reply to "RE: My BeOS PC..."
JacobMunoz Member since:
2006-03-17

Yes, I believe they had to actually design their own hourglass (it was a clock-style animation) for the app - as such a horrible thing was not part of BeOS. And you only saw the custom cursor when the app was selected, outside of the app all was normal and pointy.

Reply Score: 2

Sponsoring
by krzabr on Fri 16th Oct 2009 18:19 UTC
krzabr
Member since:
2009-09-14

Unfortunately lack of Corporate Sponsor slows Development of haiku , If sponsor spent more money for system , community might start award and optimilisation project or marketing .
This solve is effective PCBSD grown a lot after acucsion by ixisystems , other exemple is opensolaris project .

This strategy brings profits , maybe haiku would choose this roadmap ?

Reply Score: 2

A real alternative
by cipri on Fri 16th Oct 2009 19:03 UTC
cipri
Member since:
2007-02-15

When I installed the first time Haiku I was surprized, because I had a few years of experience with alpha-quality os (hobby os, or how you like to call them), and Haiku was a lot over my expectations.

I liked that from after the installations without any other installion of packages I was able to do some programming and test the api.
One of the things that I missed was a preinstalled IDE, but since there was a good preinstalled editor (with syntax highlighting.. and so on), it was not a real problem.
And it seems that in a few month Haiku will also have full wifi-support.
I'm sure that the next alpha release will boost haiku, even this first alpha release I think has already brought new (potential) developers that are perhaps not now visible.

Reply Score: 3

size matters
by transputer_guy on Sat 17th Oct 2009 10:01 UTC
transputer_guy
Member since:
2005-07-08

For me the size of an OS matters ALOT, it should be as small as possible with an inventory of parts that should be justified. The BeOS/Haiku footprint is about 300MB. I remember that a QNX with minimal desktop and browser once fit into a floppy and made BeOS look bloated :-). I also fondly recall MacOS being quite petite too, 20MB or so plus apps.

Usually Win2K, XP, OSX, and Ubuntu usually fill out at around 8GB with about 40 apps each. Vista though needed a whopping 30GB.

For fun I recently tried microXP at 3GB and tinyVista at 8GB with same 40 apps. A more minimal microXP install with only FF, Winamp, VLC, Codewarrior, and a few others now easily fits in 1GB on a CF card, I can now work diskless if I want.

With no apps added, microXP actually fits in about 280MB (less than even Haiku) and tinyVista about 3GB. Both are far more snappy and usable than their legit versions, if only Microsoft had the ability to make such versions.

Although I will be trying out Haiku more and more, I think I can now fall back on microXP until Haiku is ready.

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