Linked by Alfonso Martinez on Tue 20th Oct 2009 22:51 UTC
BeOS & Derivatives Since I encountered BeOS 5 Personal Edition, my experience with BeOS PE led me to purchase the BeOS 5 Professional Edition, which I used for some years. I am not ashamed to say that I love using this OS. After the demise of Be Corp., I still used BeOS as my "main OS" since it would do everything that I needed to do, except for gaming and academic works. I closely followed all the developments of the BeOS contenders after Be's fall... Until Zeta OS became the leading standard for a short time. I purchased every Zeta OS release that YellowTab produced. It is currently my favorite BeOS version today.
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A wild regex appears...
by sweetnavelorange on Tue 20th Oct 2009 23:04 UTC
sweetnavelorange
Member since:
2009-05-05

"imcodessed", "codefer", did someone do a blind s/pr/cod/g on this article?

Reply Score: 4

RE: A wild regex appears...
by TrueDis on Wed 21st Oct 2009 00:52 UTC in reply to "A wild regex appears..."
TrueDis Member since:
2007-06-19

It would appear so. Seriously stupid stuff...

Reply Score: 0

RE[2]: A wild regex appears...
by Tuishimi on Wed 21st Oct 2009 15:46 UTC in reply to "RE: A wild regex appears..."
Tuishimi Member since:
2005-07-06

Thankfully there are people out in the internet ready and willing to point out other people's mistakes in a kind and supportive manner, just like you!

Reply Score: 3

RE[3]: A wild regex appears...
by TrueDis on Thu 22nd Oct 2009 20:51 UTC in reply to "RE[2]: A wild regex appears..."
TrueDis Member since:
2007-06-19

Hmmm, that's interesting, but last I checked I'm not publishing content, but feel free to point out my mistakes if and when I do...

Reply Score: 1

RE: A wild regex appears...
by zlynx on Wed 21st Oct 2009 01:08 UTC in reply to "A wild regex appears..."
zlynx Member since:
2005-07-20

I'd bet someone wanted to change <pre> tags to <code> tags.

Reply Score: 4

Dup?
by jscipione on Tue 20th Oct 2009 23:09 UTC
jscipione
Member since:
2009-08-22

Is this article a dup? I could swear I have seen a very similar one posted recently.

Reply Score: 0

RE: Dup?
by truckweb on Tue 20th Oct 2009 23:16 UTC in reply to "Dup?"
truckweb Member since:
2005-07-06

October 15, by Kevin Miller, using the Aspire One Netbook as a test platform.

It's not a duplicate, just 2 experience using Haiku.

And from this experience, LOTS of stuff need to be done because not many software seem to install correctly. Too many missing files for my taste. That's Alpha quality, I understand, but it needs to get better.

Reply Score: 1

RE[2]: Dup?
by BlueofRainbow on Tue 20th Oct 2009 23:33 UTC in reply to "RE: Dup?"
BlueofRainbow Member since:
2009-01-06

Two articles about one full week with Haiku Alpha R1.

Other article was mostly about hardware challenges (e.g. droped wireless connection).

This article is about software challenges. It is a good one and the details on how to go around them for the cases discussed can be used as blue-prints to resolve any other ones once sufficient courage has been gathered to dive in and install it.

Reply Score: 4

One must consider...
by Luposian on Wed 21st Oct 2009 20:41 UTC in reply to "RE[2]: Dup?"
Luposian Member since:
2005-07-27

that hardware is of prime importance when it comes to Haiku's functionality/performance. For example, I have a Jetway Via chipset Socket A motherboard and a Asus nForce 2 chipset socket A motherboard.

For several years (at least since 2004, if not before), I have used the Jetway board. I ran BeOS R5 PE and the "WIND" distro version of it, later on. But within a last year or so, I noticed that my USB mouse would eat up to 50% of my CPU whenever I would move it, in Haiku. This was with it hooked directly to the computer, not through a hub. And my GLTeapot framerate seemed a bit lacking! I waited a couple THOUSAND revisions, for the USB issue to be fixed and it never was. I ran Ubuntu and noticed the same issue! This proved to me it was not just an issue with Haiku, alone.

At first I thought it was the USB driver... but other systems I ran Haiku on didn't have the same problem, so I realized it must be the chipset.

I was able to finally test this theory, absolutely, when I got a bad caps Asus nForce 2 board. After replacing the caps, I put all the hardware from the one system into it. Mind you, NOTHING was now ANY different, EXCEPT the motherboard. Same RAM, same CPU, same video card, same hard drive. Everything.

Haiku no longer ate 50% CPU when moving the mouse (CPU usage barely blipped) and my framerates in GLTeapot went up about 5fps!

So, I think it behooves us to have the devs let us know what chipsets they are supporting more and which ones they don't care so much about. Haiku working on a system doesn't mean it will work ideally. You can have everything "working", but overall performance is bottle-necked by lack of proper hardware support. I think we need to start identifying the weak/strong hardware support at this time.

HaikuWare's hardware matrix would be a good place to start. I've posted my Jetway motherboard there, but now I believe it's time to edit the post (if possible), to reflect this new knowledge.

Reply Score: 2

Nice review
by lopisaur on Tue 20th Oct 2009 23:38 UTC
lopisaur
Member since:
2006-02-27

Altough the introduction seemed to give me deja-vĂș from last week's article, I think it was a farily thorough, altough subjective, review. I still can't figure out his word selection, but anyway.
Any articles about Haiku should get support from OSnews and its readers.

Reply Score: 3

Nice writeup
by Parry Hotter on Tue 20th Oct 2009 23:51 UTC
Parry Hotter
Member since:
2007-07-20

Interesting read, thanks for submitting this article.
I just want to point out two things; USB file transfer rates have been drastically improved recently, grab a nightly build to check it out for yourself if you want to, and; when in GDB, type bt (or backtrace) to get useful debugging info.

Reply Score: 3

apps
by Ricard on Wed 21st Oct 2009 00:16 UTC
Ricard
Member since:
2005-07-03

Here is a few extra details about some of the errors.


4) Beezer

This has only ever worked for me on haikuware's version of haiku. I don't know what they are doing differently, but maybe if someone started it from terminal then you could maybe tell.

13) CivCTP Demo
I think all the real civ games use a dirty hack in beos that doesn't work in haiku. Haiku ticket 2363

16) Freeciv
Try again with only files from http://ports.haiku-files.org/wiki/Downloads

18) Wesnoth
The same as freeciv, the beos libraries are a bit crusty.

21) AbiWord
&
22) AbiWord File: gluckalo-alpha2.zip

These versions of abiword don't work with haiku any more, you need to compile it from http://dev.osdrawer.net/projects/abiword

Reply Score: 2

Great Job
by jefro on Wed 21st Oct 2009 01:17 UTC
jefro
Member since:
2007-04-13

I have been a BeOS users from the some of the early days. Not as far back as some. When they said it would take years to complete a clone of BeOS I didn't believe it. Well,,, many years later we finally get a great start. I wish to thank all the hard workers for a job well done.

Reply Score: 6

Dependencies
by kvdman on Wed 21st Oct 2009 01:28 UTC
kvdman
Member since:
2006-04-28

The reviewer could have probably saved a lot of time, before the review, by downloading and installing the Haiku Ports Package:

http://www.haikuware.com/directory/view-details/system-files/shared...

Contains all Haiku Ports in a single package (GCC2).

Also, I've been able to get FreeCiv and Wesnoth working.

Reply Score: 10

RE: Dependencies
by Tuishimi on Wed 21st Oct 2009 15:47 UTC in reply to "Dependencies"
Tuishimi Member since:
2005-07-06

Ah. Good advice!

Reply Score: 2

Great validation!
by AndrewZ on Wed 21st Oct 2009 16:12 UTC
AndrewZ
Member since:
2005-11-15

This article is a great validation of the Alpha release. All the basics are working, some assembly and tweaking is required. This is exactly what an Alpha is for, to get an early version into the hands of the early adopters and hackers, and get the bug reports back to the developers.

We have a achieved an important milestone, congrats to the Haiku team!

Can't wait for the Beta...

Reply Score: 4

Good review
by renox on Wed 21st Oct 2009 16:29 UTC
renox
Member since:
2005-07-06

The s/pre/cod/ is bit annoying but apart from this, it's very interesting to see the state of Haiku, I'm wondering though: what needs to be done so that every user don't have to chase dependency as the reviewer did?

Does software like BoW has branch for BeOS/Haiku?

Reply Score: 2

RE: Good review
by StephenBeDoper on Wed 21st Oct 2009 16:48 UTC in reply to "Good review"
StephenBeDoper Member since:
2005-07-06

The s/pre/cod/ is bit annoying but apart from this, it's very interesting to see the state of Haiku, I'm wondering though: what needs to be done so that every user don't have to chase dependency as the reviewer did?


My guess is that, at this point, they're trying to keep the base install as minimal as possible to make it as easy as possible to track down and fix bugs.

I suspect that, once Haiku gets closer to a stable release, the devs will start including more common libraries. And if not, there's always the possibility of 3rd-party distributions stepping in to fill that gap.

Reply Score: 2

RE: Good review
by Thom_Holwerda on Wed 21st Oct 2009 19:09 UTC in reply to "Good review"
Thom_Holwerda Member since:
2005-06-29

s/pre/cod/


Yes it is, I know. I'm sorry. I thought I did it properly by replacing <pre> with <code> instead of just replacing pre with code, but I guess I messed up. There was no opportunity to fix it, because OSNews has been flaky the past 24 hours - as you no doubt noticed.

Sadly, I'm studying my ass off right now, so I have no time to fix it. Sorry boys and girls.

Reply Score: 2

RE[2]: Good review
by fretinator on Wed 21st Oct 2009 19:54 UTC in reply to "RE: Good review"
fretinator Member since:
2005-07-06

I hope you pass your bowling course!

Reply Score: 4

CD audio, SMP
by StephenBeDoper on Wed 21st Oct 2009 16:44 UTC
StephenBeDoper
Member since:
2005-07-06

I would love to see how Haiku would perform on a quad-core processor system that is built to gaming specifications.


You probably won't notice much difference with the system itself - although video/audio encoding should be noticeably faster. BeOS (and presumably Haiku as well) doesn't really run faster with multiple CPUs/cores, but but it becomes next-to-impossible to make it lag or slow down.

The CD Player that comes with Haiku recognizes, loads, and seems to play the CD tracts. Unfortunately, it does not produce any real audio for me to hear. With the tools on hand with Haiku, I cannot check to see the device situation or if any communication occurs between the CDPlayer and the SB Live 5.1 card.


I'm guessing you've already checked - but just in case, have you looked in the Media prefs to ensure that the CD audio input isn't muted? That was the default in R5 (not sure about Haiku), I remember that being one of the most common questions/complaints on the old comp.sys.be.help newsgroup.

Reply Score: 3

RE: CD audio, SMP
by RRockMan on Wed 21st Oct 2009 23:08 UTC in reply to "CD audio, SMP"
RRockMan Member since:
2008-11-30

Strange, I clearly remember Be advertising dramatic performance improvements with each additional processor added to a machine.
Sure Haiku can't have the same tech at that low level, but are you sure about BeOS?

Reply Score: 1

RE[2]: CD audio, SMP
by StephenBeDoper on Wed 21st Oct 2009 23:35 UTC in reply to "RE: CD audio, SMP"
StephenBeDoper Member since:
2005-07-06

Strange, I clearly remember Be advertising dramatic performance improvements with each additional processor added to a machine.


That was true, but it mainly applied to tasks that were CPU intensive and performed using BeOS-native, multi-threaded applications. It makes less difference in terms of basic, day-to-day tasks - it's not going to reduce boot time, Firefox isn't going to start any faster, etc.

Also, keep in mind that 1Ghz CPUs were just starting to become available around the time of the last BeOS release. So, for most of Be's existence, running BeOS on dual processors meant dual 66Mhz PPCs up to dual 1Ghz P3s. For most uses, going from a single to a dual P3 450 setup resulted in much more noticeable performance gains than going from a single to a dual 1Ghz P3 system. Mainly because, for most uses, BeOS simply doesn't need anything faster than 1Ghz.

Edited 2009-10-21 23:37 UTC

Reply Score: 3

What?
by rockwell on Wed 21st Oct 2009 17:42 UTC
rockwell
Member since:
2005-09-13

// since it would do everything that I needed to do, except for gaming and academic works.//

So ... it didn't do everything you needed it to do.

Reply Score: 1

RE: What?
by righard on Wed 21st Oct 2009 17:45 UTC in reply to "What?"
righard Member since:
2007-12-26

... You can read!

Reply Score: 3

RE[2]: What?
by rockwell on Thu 22nd Oct 2009 15:03 UTC in reply to "RE: What?"
rockwell Member since:
2005-09-13

... You can't see the point! It just went over your head!

Reply Score: 2

RE: What?
by StephenBeDoper on Wed 21st Oct 2009 19:01 UTC in reply to "What?"
StephenBeDoper Member since:
2005-07-06

Eh, that battle was lost long ago - even professional writers seem to have forgotten that you cannot have degrees of an absolute (just this morning, I read a newspaper *headline* that included the phrase "very unique" and there's my personal favourite, "more/less free").

Reply Score: 2

RE[2]: What?
by sbergman27 on Wed 21st Oct 2009 19:39 UTC in reply to "RE: What?"
sbergman27 Member since:
2005-07-24

Eh, that battle was lost long ago - even professional writers seem to have forgotten that you cannot have degrees of an absolute

This is nothing at all wrong with saying "everything except <list>". I'm not sure whether or not I would have put in the comma. And it might have been a problem if the comma had been a period. But the way it is written is perfectly fine, and a completely different situation than "very unique".

I think rockwell is just looking for another angle on bashing a non-MS OS, as per usual.

Edited 2009-10-21 19:44 UTC

Reply Score: 5

RE[3]: What?
by StephenBeDoper on Wed 21st Oct 2009 19:53 UTC in reply to "RE[2]: What?"
StephenBeDoper Member since:
2005-07-06

This is nothing at all wrong with saying "everything except <list>". I'm not sure whether or not I would have put in the comma. And it might have been a problem if the comma had been a period. But the way it is written is perfectly fine, and a completely different situation than "very unique".


Ah yes, on re-reading I see he was stating exceptions to (rather than degrees of) an absolute. Mea culpa, constant exposure to poor writing must be causing my brain to atrophy (that's my excuse and I'm sticking to it).

Reply Score: 2

RE[3]: What?
by rockwell on Thu 22nd Oct 2009 15:02 UTC in reply to "RE[2]: What?"
rockwell Member since:
2005-09-13

//I think rockwell is just looking for another angle on bashing a non-MS OS, as per usual.//

Nice try, freetard.

Linux rocks on servers. It sucks on the desktop. I've always maintained this stance.

OS X is great, but price for entry is too steep for what you get (even new Mac mini is $100 too much).

AIX is for big iron (doubt you've ever even seen "big iron" but that's another matter).

Rest of them are pointless.

Reply Score: 1

RE[4]: What?
by sbergman27 on Thu 22nd Oct 2009 15:10 UTC in reply to "RE[3]: What?"
sbergman27 Member since:
2005-07-24

Nice try, freetard.

The nice thing about arguing with you is that you do such a great job of destroying your own credibility that I don't even have to clean up. :-D

Edited 2009-10-22 15:10 UTC

Reply Score: 4

RE[5]: What?
by rockwell on Fri 23rd Oct 2009 03:44 UTC in reply to "RE[4]: What?"
rockwell Member since:
2005-09-13

I destroy my credibility by calling you what you are? Whatever floats your boat!

Reply Score: 2

RE: What?
by righard on Wed 21st Oct 2009 19:50 UTC in reply to "What?"
righard Member since:
2007-12-26

What would be a correct way of using the word 'except' then?

Reply Score: 2

RE[2]: What?
by aaronb on Wed 21st Oct 2009 21:20 UTC in reply to "RE: What?"
aaronb Member since:
2005-07-06

Maybe he wanted to say:
Haiku meats all of my needs excluding the list of items below:
1. Gaming
2. Academic works
(In other words "it would do everything that I needed to do, except for gaming and academic works").

;)
Back on topic, I enjoyed both reviews of Haiku and will give the alpha a go.

Edited 2009-10-21 21:25 UTC

Reply Score: 2

performance (at pre-alpha stage!)
by prOSy on Thu 22nd Oct 2009 04:45 UTC
prOSy
Member since:
2009-10-22


I would love to see how Haiku would perform on a quad-core processor system that is built to gaming specifications.


So, for all your vouyeristic needs, check here:
http://picasaweb.google.com/zer0xEB

Edited 2009-10-22 05:05 UTC

Reply Score: 1

jeanmarc Member since:
2005-07-06

Haiku fly with four CPU ;)
http://louviaux.be/home/haikur1alpha/screenshot1.png
(Phenom X2 550 hacked to X4)

Edited 2009-10-22 06:38 UTC

Reply Score: 2

Excited!
by Kebabbert on Thu 22nd Oct 2009 07:54 UTC
Kebabbert
Member since:
2007-07-27

Wow this is cool! I am very impressed by the Haiku team taking the project this far!

Reply Score: 3

Works great on VirtualBox on Ubuntu
by joaomcarvalho on Thu 22nd Oct 2009 09:31 UTC
joaomcarvalho
Member since:
2009-01-22

Just to say it works great with VirtualBox in Ubuntu Karmic Beta. Use the vmware image and create a new machine with that drive image. Good seeing the great Beos getting full of life again!

Reply Score: 1

Monthly refresh of Alpha ISO
by Mage66 on Thu 22nd Oct 2009 11:26 UTC
Mage66
Member since:
2005-07-11

I wish they'd do a monthly refreah of the ISO image with all the fixes and additions from the previous month of work.

I'd bet a lot of things have been improved since the release of the Alpha.

The monthly images could be considered bleeding edge.

I don't see a link to the nightly builds on the website.

I'm looking forward to Alpha 2, or Beta 1 or whatever they decide the next release is.

Reply Score: 1

RE: Monthly refresh of Alpha ISO
by bsdfreak on Thu 22nd Oct 2009 12:05 UTC in reply to "Monthly refresh of Alpha ISO"
bsdfreak Member since:
2009-10-22

They have daily images you can find them here: http://haiku-files.org/cd/

Reply Score: 1

RE: Monthly refresh of Alpha ISO
by cipri on Thu 22nd Oct 2009 16:11 UTC in reply to "Monthly refresh of Alpha ISO"
cipri Member since:
2007-02-15

you find the nightly builds on:
www.haiku-files.org

there you can download raw images, VMware images, or CD Images.

I use the gcc4 hybrid version.

Reply Score: 1

Comment by Fransexy
by Fransexy on Thu 22nd Oct 2009 11:28 UTC
Fransexy
Member since:
2005-07-29

Why seven "7" days? why not 6 or 8 days of using it? ARE YOU MAKING SUBLIMINAL ADVERTISING??!!! XD XD

Reply Score: 2

RE: Comment by Fransexy
by Thom_Holwerda on Thu 22nd Oct 2009 12:53 UTC in reply to "Comment by Fransexy"
Thom_Holwerda Member since:
2005-06-29

Why seven "7" days? why not 6 or 8 days of using it? ARE YOU MAKING SUBLIMINAL ADVERTISING??!!! XD XD


Yes.

Reply Score: 1

Comment by scottmc
by scottmc on Thu 22nd Oct 2009 19:40 UTC
scottmc
Member since:
2005-07-08

In regards to the missing and broken libraries, many of these are being rebuilt for Haiku. I'm in the process of rebuilding the SDL Libs:
http://ports.haiku-files.org/wiki/SDL-LibPak
Many of these have other dependencies so those may need rebuilding as well. We could always use a few more hands over at HaikuPorts to help rebuilding these.
http://ports.haiku-files.org/


As for ArmyKnife, that one will soon see an update, the project page for it is at:
http://dev.osdrawer.net/projects/armyknife
Beezer: http://dev.osdrawer.net/projects/beezer
Hare (renamed FlipSide AE not yet released):, correct the GUI on this one is broken, and that's one of the holdups on a new release, that and the missing updated audio encoders to do the actual work. If anyone wants to take a shot at fixing it the source code it posted: http://dev.osdrawer.net/projects/hare
BeAE: http://developer.berlios.de/projects/beae

If you find any bugs in these apps be sure to report them on their project pages, bugs reports help the devs make the programs better.

There's many ported libaries and such on the HaikuPorts download page, but many of these have seen little testing:
http://ports.haiku-files.org/wiki/Downloads
If you have any troubles with them be sure to report them on HaikuPorts trac.

Reply Score: 1

Osnews, a good place for reviews?
by reez on Thu 22nd Oct 2009 21:04 UTC
reez
Member since:
2006-06-28

Don't get me wrong, I think the review is great, but wouldn't it be better to collect reviews somewhere else. Maybe even on the projects website, so the developers discover this kind of feedback easier. I just mean, when I want a review I would find it easier, if it's on a web site related to the project.

However, it's just a suggestion ;-)

Reply Score: 1