Linked by Thom Holwerda on Sat 21st Nov 2009 11:28 UTC, submitted by Mike Saunders
OSNews, Generic OSes A new version of the learning tool OS MikeOS is available, sporting a new BASIC interpreter with 24 instructions. You can run BASIC code from inside the text editor by pressing F8. See the App Developer Handbook for a guide to the BASIC dialect (somewhat similar to old 8-bit BASICs, nostalgia fans), and the User Handbook for info on running MikeOS from a USB key, floppy or CD.
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How fun!
by Tuishimi on Sat 21st Nov 2009 21:43 UTC
Tuishimi
Member since:
2005-07-06

Going to download and play with this!

Reply Score: 2

Disappointing
by jal_ on Sun 22nd Nov 2009 21:20 UTC
jal_
Member since:
2006-11-02

Given the fact that on 8-bit machines there were already quite advanced BASIC dialects, and on 16-bit machines (which is what MikeOS is aiming at, being a 16-bit OS) we had things like GW-BASIC and QuickBASIC, I find this extremely simple BASIC variant to be a bit disappointing, especially given the fact that it takes up 32KB! Something like this could be written in 1KB.

Reply Score: 0

RE: Disappointing
by Dirge on Sun 22nd Nov 2009 21:35 UTC in reply to "Disappointing"
Dirge Member since:
2005-07-14

I don't suppose you have done better yourself? Its an open source teaching OS made freely available to the public along with documentation. It really doesn't deserve derision.

Reply Score: 5

RE[2]: Disappointing
by sakeniwefu on Mon 23rd Nov 2009 01:20 UTC in reply to "RE: Disappointing"
sakeniwefu Member since:
2008-02-26

Well, I think it is valid criticism for an assembly OS. Bill Gates wrote a BASIC interpreter for the 8080 in 4kb in the 1970s.
I miss line numbers and a line editor. This is not the RAD we were used to in 8-bit computers.

Reply Score: 3

RE[3]: Disappointing
by M-Saunders on Mon 23rd Nov 2009 10:09 UTC in reply to "RE[2]: Disappointing"
M-Saunders Member since:
2007-09-17

"I miss line numbers and a line editor."

Originally MikeOS BASIC used line numbers, but I decided to switch it to text labels as they're more descriptive.

It wouldn't be hard for someone to implement a line editor (I wrote a simple one ages ago), but I would imagine most people coding would prefer a full-screen editor.

Mike

Edited 2009-11-23 10:10 UTC

Reply Score: 4

RE[2]: Disappointing
by jal_ on Mon 23rd Nov 2009 09:10 UTC in reply to "RE: Disappointing"
jal_ Member since:
2006-11-02

Yes, I have done better myself, I developed a BASIC interpreter in 4KB for a self-designed 16-bit home computer. But that's beside the point. MikeOS is a fantastic piece of work, and I applaud it's goals. It's because of this that I'm a bit disappointed about this BASIC.

Reply Score: 2

RE[3]: Disappointing
by Dirge on Mon 23rd Nov 2009 20:00 UTC in reply to "RE[2]: Disappointing"
Dirge Member since:
2005-07-14

That's pretty sweet, my hats off to you ;)

Reply Score: 1

RE: Disappointing
by M-Saunders on Mon 23rd Nov 2009 10:06 UTC in reply to "Disappointing"
M-Saunders Member since:
2007-09-17

Hi!

"I find this extremely simple BASIC variant to be a bit disappointing, especially given the fact that it takes up 32KB!"

1) The MikeOS kernel has 32K RAM of allocated, and the kernel binary itself is 13K. The BASIC interpreter is just over 2K (2295 bytes).

2) QuickBASIC and GW BASIC were commercial products developed by paid developers. MikeOS is a one-man part-time hobby project that's given away for free. There's bound to be a big difference in functionality!

Mike

Edited 2009-11-23 10:10 UTC

Reply Score: 4

RE[2]: Disappointing
by jal_ on Mon 23rd Nov 2009 11:57 UTC in reply to "RE: Disappointing"
jal_ Member since:
2006-11-02

The MikeOS kernel has 32K RAM of allocated, and the kernel binary itself is 13K. The BASIC interpreter is just over 2K (2295 bytes).


Ok, 2K is better, although it's still a bit on the large side for such a simple BASIC. Like I said, I like MikeOS, and I realize it's just largely a one-man project.

Reply Score: 1

RE[3]: Disappointing
by M-Saunders on Mon 23rd Nov 2009 12:38 UTC in reply to "RE[2]: Disappointing"
M-Saunders Member since:
2007-09-17

Ok, 2K is better, although it's still a bit on the large side for such a simple BASIC.


I could make it considerably smaller. I could remove the variety of error messages and replace them with a single "Syntax error". I could do some hackish stuff with the code to ultra-optimise it.

But you have to remember that MikeOS is a learning tool, so code clarity and structure is always more important than shaving bytes off at every opportunity. I'm writing something that people can (hopefully!) learn from - not trying to wow people with l33t asm skillz.

Mike

Reply Score: 4

RE[4]: Disappointing
by jal_ on Mon 23rd Nov 2009 19:05 UTC in reply to "RE[3]: Disappointing"
jal_ Member since:
2006-11-02

But you have to remember that MikeOS is a learning tool, so code clarity and structure is always more important than shaving bytes off at every opportunity.


Point taken. Error message can indeed add quite some space, and in a teaching OS there's indeed no room for too much trickery.

Reply Score: 1

RE[3]: Disappointing
by Almafeta on Mon 23rd Nov 2009 17:08 UTC in reply to "RE[2]: Disappointing"
Almafeta Member since:
2007-02-22

Ok, 2K is better, although it's still a bit on the large side for such a simple BASIC. Like I said, I like MikeOS, and I realize it's just largely a one-man project.


So write up some code, offer it to him, and see if by your powers combined you can create something iteratively better?

Edited 2009-11-23 17:08 UTC

Reply Score: 2

Awesome!
by callinyouin on Mon 23rd Nov 2009 16:42 UTC
callinyouin
Member since:
2008-12-15

Very cool project. Can't wait to check out the OS (especially all the documentation!!!) over thanksgiving break!!! (<-- college student)

Reply Score: 1

Comment by stanbr
by stanbr on Tue 24th Nov 2009 18:29 UTC
stanbr
Member since:
2009-05-22

Really cool project. Fastest OS I ever used. I don't have much free time right now, but I'll try to make some cool basic examples when I get some spare time.

Old scholl developers, download and have fun!

Reply Score: 1