Linked by Thom Holwerda on Tue 24th Nov 2009 00:02 UTC
Opera Software The Opera team has released version 10.10 of their feature-rich browser. This is the first Opera release to come with Opera Unite, which combines the web browser with a web server, so that users can share data directly between one another, without the need for a third party.
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Well
by talaf on Tue 24th Nov 2009 00:17 UTC
talaf
Member since:
2008-11-19

To be honest I'd be way more thrilled if they finished their new JS engine ;)

Reply Score: 3

Popularisation of OSnews
by Punktyras on Tue 24th Nov 2009 00:20 UTC
Punktyras
Member since:
2006-01-07

Did you mean Oprah?

Reply Score: 6

RE: Popularisation of OSnews
by koki on Tue 24th Nov 2009 07:17 UTC in reply to "Popularisation of OSnews"
koki Member since:
2005-10-17

Thom must have written the title while watching TV. ;)

Reply Score: 1

v Comment by Kroc
by Kroc on Tue 24th Nov 2009 00:36 UTC
RE: Comment by Kroc
by mtzmtulivu on Tue 24th Nov 2009 01:01 UTC in reply to "Comment by Kroc"
mtzmtulivu Member since:
2006-11-14

somebody else, at some point in the future will do it better? ...cant you alleast see the bias in your writing .. you are sitting there hopping for somebody to out do, for them not to gain any market..

opera may not be as popular as you other browsers, but it is the only browser that has had the biggest impact on browser UI .. can you mention mention two ideas that opera brought to the table and were adopted by other browers and GUI applications? ..i will start with tabs followed by thumbnailed most visited browser pages ...can you name one more?

what has firefox contributed in this front? what has safari? IE lately?

arent you somewhere in Europe? Opera is pretty popular in some countries in Europe ..you sound like an American blogger who thinks if something isnt popular in silicon valley, it is not popular anywhere else in the world

can you lay down the hate for a little while? its getting boring

Reply Score: 5

RE[2]: Comment by Kroc
by Kroc on Tue 24th Nov 2009 01:23 UTC in reply to "RE: Comment by Kroc"
Kroc Member since:
2005-11-10

I’m British, and we take complaining to an art form.

Opera Unite has severe problems—the main two being that it goes through Opera proxies, and that there are terms and conditions that make it akin to the App Store—yet another walled garden. It’s a bad implementation, regardless of company.

Chrome is doing *way* more UI innovation than Opera is at the moment. Opera’s had its day, IMO.

Reply Score: 0

RE[3]: Comment by Kroc
by mtzmtulivu on Tue 24th Nov 2009 01:53 UTC in reply to "RE[2]: Comment by Kroc"
mtzmtulivu Member since:
2006-11-14

what has chrome does?

they removed the menu bar, you could have hide it in opera ages ago and create a shortcut key to show/hide it if you want

they moved around the tabs, opera created the whole concept of tabs

they removed the status bar ..you could have done that ages ago in all major browsers

the thing is ..opera could do 99.999% right and you will only mention about the missing 0.001%

...everybody needs a critic but your kind of criticism doesnt help ..it only adds to negativity and we all need a little bit less of that ...

to be a bit "fair and balanced", can you mention two things opera contributed in advancing the web experience?

this feature could be useless but atleast they are trying something ..what new front has firefox tried to persue lately?, what about safari? IE came with their accelerators ..who else came with what?

you loose your credibility mr.

Reply Score: 9

RE[4]: Comment by Kroc
by Kroc on Tue 24th Nov 2009 08:35 UTC in reply to "RE[3]: Comment by Kroc"
Kroc Member since:
2005-11-10

There is a *big* difference between just hiding the menu bar, and removing it from existence.

to be a bit "fair and balanced", can you mention two things opera contributed in advancing the web experience?

1. The Acid 3 race.
2. HTML5/XForms Form controls

Reply Score: 1

RE[5]: Comment by Kroc
by ebasconp on Tue 24th Nov 2009 16:51 UTC in reply to "RE[4]: Comment by Kroc"
ebasconp Member since:
2006-05-09


1. The Acid 3 race.
2. HTML5/XForms Form controls


3. Tabbed browsing
4. "Speed dial" page
5. Mouse gestures

Edited 2009-11-24 16:52 UTC

Reply Score: 3

RE[6]: Comment by Kroc
by invent00r on Tue 24th Nov 2009 17:23 UTC in reply to "RE[5]: Comment by Kroc"
invent00r Member since:
2009-04-27

"
1. The Acid 3 race.
2. HTML5/XForms Form controls


3. Tabbed browsing
4. "Speed dial" page
5. Mouse gestures
"

6. Opera Mini
7. Opera Turbo & Opera Link

Reply Score: 1

RE[7]: Comment by Kroc
by StephenBeDoper on Tue 24th Nov 2009 18:39 UTC in reply to "RE[6]: Comment by Kroc"
StephenBeDoper Member since:
2005-07-06

8. OperaShow. Not sure if it's still in existence, but Opera supports (or supported?) the ability to create PowerPoint-style presentations using standard HTML & a little bit of OperaShow-specific markup (for defining pages/slides, etc).

9. Single-key keyboard shortcuts - the main feature that I still miss to this day. Related to that, Opera has a keyboard shortcut for pretty much everything.

10. The ability to restore un-submitted form data when you restart the browser after a crash.

Reply Score: 3

RE[4]: Comment by Kroc
by Moochman on Tue 24th Nov 2009 12:27 UTC in reply to "RE[3]: Comment by Kroc"
Moochman Member since:
2005-07-06

Although it's true that Opera pioneered a lot of features, it seems to me that they're not on the cutting edge anymore. I would say Flock is the most innovative browser at the moment. It has built-in photo-sharing, Facebook, Twitter, blogging, RSS, and e-mail capabilities. I personally don't use Flock as I don't consider myself a heavy enough "social web" user, but for someone who is it's probably the best browser out there.

Firefox is the second most innovative, poised to become the most innovative. Behind the scenes, Mozilla is doing some *very* experimental, innovative stuff. Just take a look at Mozilla Labs:

http://mozillalabs.com/

Projects there include:

Ubiquity: Command-based shortcuts to speed up/automate common actions

Weave: Sync your browser profile across devices

Prism: Run web applications as desktop applications

Raindrop: A browser-based, universal messaging client (e-mail and IM) with a focus on intuitive simplicity and filtering personal e-mails from bulk e-mails

Snowl: RSS reader integrated into Firefox, with an emphasis on tracking online discussions

They also recently sponsored a competition for rethinking the design of tabbed browsing:

http://arstechnica.com/open-source/news/2009/07/mozilla-design-chal...

Their mobile browser also sports the most innovative mobile browser UI available:

http://blog.pavlov.net/2009/03/17/fennec-1-beta-1/

On top of all that, Firefox has more innovative, amazing extensions than all other browsers combined, and they're all free. A few examples:

Scrapbook: Save and organize web pages or entire websites for viewing offline

Zotero: Save, organize and annotate web pages; specially targeted for use in research papers, with amazing support for citations.

Firebug: Invaluable tool for web developers, lets you view the structure of and modify elements of web pages dynamically

Adblock: Block ads

Sage: Very nice RSS reader

Meebo: Built-in universal instant messenger

...are just a few of the top ones off the top of my head. And that's just the tip of the iceberg.

As for Chrome, it's fast and does a lot to help web developers, but you're right, its UI is hardly innovative.

Edited 2009-11-24 12:45 UTC

Reply Score: 3

RE[5]: Comment by Kroc
by talaf on Tue 24th Nov 2009 13:25 UTC in reply to "RE[4]: Comment by Kroc"
talaf Member since:
2008-11-19

Although it's true that Opera pioneered a lot of features, it seems to me that they're not on the cutting edge anymore. I would say Flock is the most innovative browser at the moment. It has built-in photo-sharing, Facebook, Twitter, blogging, RSS, and e-mail capabilities. I personally don't use Flock as I don't consider myself a heavy enough "social web" user, but for someone who is it's probably the best browser out there.

Firefox is the second most innovative, poised to become the most innovative. Behind the scenes, Mozilla is doing some *very* experimental, innovative stuff. Just take a look at Mozilla Labs:

http://mozillalabs.com/

Projects there include:

Ubiquity: Command-based shortcuts to speed up/automate common actions

Weave: Sync your browser profile across devices

Prism: Run web applications as desktop applications

Raindrop: A browser-based, universal messaging client (e-mail and IM) with a focus on intuitive simplicity and filtering personal e-mails from bulk e-mails

Snowl: RSS reader integrated into Firefox, with an emphasis on tracking online discussions

They also recently sponsored a competition for rethinking the design of tabbed browsing:

http://arstechnica.com/open-source/news/2009/07/mozilla-design-chal...

Their mobile browser also sports the most innovative mobile browser UI available:

http://blog.pavlov.net/2009/03/17/fennec-1-beta-1/

On top of all that, Firefox has more innovative, amazing extensions than all other browsers combined, and they're all free. A few examples:

Scrapbook: Save and organize web pages or entire websites for viewing offline

Zotero: Save, organize and annotate web pages; specially targeted for use in research papers, with amazing support for citations.

Firebug: Invaluable tool for web developers, lets you view the structure of and modify elements of web pages dynamically

Adblock: Block ads

Sage: Very nice RSS reader

Meebo: Built-in universal instant messenger

...are just a few of the top ones off the top of my head. And that's just the tip of the iceberg.

As for Chrome, it's fast and does a lot to help web developers, but you're right, its UI is hardly innovative.

Chrome UI is nothing new beyond the "tab on top" stuff. What good comes from removing the menu bar beyond eye candy? (and UI isn't all about eye candy, mind you).

Opera also has built in mail, RSS, and chat support since v9 at least, and though it could use some work, Opera mail is actually what I'd use if I didn't need heavy calendaring.

Opera Link works very well and share bookmarks, bars, research history, speed dial and so on across all your Opera instances.

Integrated debugging and developper support in Opera is supposedly good, though I'll admit I used it only once (and I barely do any web developpement).

I'd say they hold their own on the feature side. Now go kick some chrome ass on the speed side and it's all good ;)

Reply Score: 2

RE[6]: Comment by Kroc
by Moochman on Tue 24th Nov 2009 13:51 UTC in reply to "RE[5]: Comment by Kroc"
Moochman Member since:
2005-07-06

I admit I didn't know about Opera Link or Mail. Also, after trying Unite I must say the potential is enormous. Just when it seemed Opera couldn't come up with anything new, they came up with possibly the most innovative feature they've ever created.

After trying it, I must say that Opera hasn't let the cutting edge out of its sight after all ;) .

Reply Score: 2

RE[7]: Comment by Kroc
by talaf on Tue 24th Nov 2009 15:57 UTC in reply to "RE[6]: Comment by Kroc"
talaf Member since:
2008-11-19

Ya it's really pretty cool. We'll have to see how this is going to develop but I already shared a bunch of photos I was to lazy to upload and other stuff ;)

Reply Score: 1

RE[5]: Comment by Kroc
by wumip on Tue 24th Nov 2009 18:19 UTC in reply to "RE[4]: Comment by Kroc"
wumip Member since:
2009-08-20

<blockquote>Firefox is the second most innovative</blockquote>
Let's see...

<blockquote>Projects there include:

Ubiquity: Command-based shortcuts to speed up/automate common actions</blockquote>
This is like Opera's shortcuts and nicknames, but maybe more advanced.

<blockquote>Weave: Sync your browser profile across devices </blockquote>
Opera Link

<blockquote>Prism: Run web applications as desktop applications</blockquote>
Opera Widgets

<blockquote>Raindrop: A browser-based, universal messaging client (e-mail and IM) with a focus on intuitive simplicity and filtering personal e-mails from bulk e-mails </blockquote>
Er, how many IM websites are there? Lots.

<blockquote>Snowl: RSS reader integrated into Firefox, with an emphasis on tracking online discussions</blockquote>
Opera has had a real RSS reader for ages.

So basically, Opera does most of these, and has been doing them for ages, and Firefox is the innovative one? LOL.

<blockquote>Firefox has more innovative, amazing extensions than all other browsers combined</blockquote>
Ad blocking and an RSS reader? Instant messenger? LOL again.

Reply Score: 2

RE[6]: Comment by Kroc
by Moochman on Tue 24th Nov 2009 20:07 UTC in reply to "RE[5]: Comment by Kroc"
Moochman Member since:
2005-07-06

You're right that most of these features are not new. However, I think you'll find that if you examine the screenshots and mock-ups of Ubiquity, Raindrop and Snowl, in all cases they have done a complete re-analysis of the requirements and workflow and in many cases introduced a completely rethought UI, unlike anything else out there. This is what IMHO makes them so innovative even though they are introducing "just another" macro facility/RSS reader/e-mail/IM client.

Edited 2009-11-24 20:11 UTC

Reply Score: 2

RE[3]: Comment by Kroc
by Anon9 on Tue 24th Nov 2009 02:33 UTC in reply to "RE[2]: Comment by Kroc"
Anon9 Member since:
2008-06-30

If I understand correctly, the proxy is only to ease dns/firewall issues. You can access the Unite server with your own domain name if you really want to pay for it. The proxy is a convenience which can be bypassed.

Also, I don't think there is anything to stop you from distributing Unite applications at your own website. It makes sense that Opera would have a minimum standard if the app is to be listed on their website.

Reply Score: 2

RE[3]: Comment by Kroc
by spiderman on Tue 24th Nov 2009 06:42 UTC in reply to "RE[2]: Comment by Kroc"
spiderman Member since:
2008-10-23


Chrome is doing *way* more UI innovation than Opera is at the moment. Opera’s had its day, IMO.

LOL, innovations like putting the tabs upside?

Edited 2009-11-24 06:44 UTC

Reply Score: 3

RE[4]: Comment by Kroc
by REM2000 on Tue 24th Nov 2009 10:13 UTC in reply to "RE[3]: Comment by Kroc"
REM2000 Member since:
2006-07-25

Not everything is about the UI. What chrome brings to the table is a lot of under the hood designs which bring chrome to be more of an OS to the internet.

Reply Score: 2

RE[5]: Comment by Kroc
by spiderman on Tue 24th Nov 2009 10:39 UTC in reply to "RE[4]: Comment by Kroc"
spiderman Member since:
2008-10-23

Not everything is about the UI. What chrome brings to the table is a lot of under the hood designs which bring chrome to be more of an OS to the internet.

I know some of the things that chrome bring to the table, like one-process-per-tab which is probably more secure in some cases (like when using flash) and other stuff, but... an OS to the internet? Chrome is not an OS, it is a browser! If chrome is an OS to the internet, then all browsers are. You can use any browser and make people think it is an OS like that: http://webconverger.org/
But it's still a browser.

Reply Score: 2

RE[5]: Comment by Kroc
by Moochman on Tue 24th Nov 2009 12:30 UTC in reply to "RE[4]: Comment by Kroc"
Moochman Member since:
2005-07-06

Yes, but Kroc's comment was that "Chrome is doing *way* more UI innovation than Opera is at the moment."

I just don't see how this is true. UI simplification, yes--real UI innovation, no.

Reply Score: 3

RE[5]: Comment by Kroc
by wumip on Tue 24th Nov 2009 18:20 UTC in reply to "RE[4]: Comment by Kroc"
wumip Member since:
2009-08-20

What does Chrome bring to the table?

Compiled JS? Apple did that before Chrome.

Separate processes for different tabs? IE8 already did that before Chrome.

And so on. There's basically nothing innovative about Chrome.

Chrome is a great browser, but it is NOT innovative.

Reply Score: 3

RE[6]: Comment by Kroc
by Erunno on Tue 24th Nov 2009 19:27 UTC in reply to "RE[5]: Comment by Kroc"
Erunno Member since:
2007-06-22

What does Chrome bring to the table?

Compiled JS? Apple did that before Chrome.


SquirrelFish Extreme's and Chrome's release are only a few months apart so we can safely assume that Google has been working on this feature independently of Apple and WebKit. In this respective case it's probably inappropriate to claim that one company has been more innovative than the other, since obviously both companies saw the need for such an solution (same goes for Microsoft and process separation). There have been also earlier plans to include a JIT-compiling engine with Mozilla's Tamarin project (which never really took of but some of the technology has been used for TraceMonkey).

Reply Score: 2

RE[7]: Comment by Kroc
by wumip on Tue 24th Nov 2009 21:50 UTC in reply to "RE[6]: Comment by Kroc"
wumip Member since:
2009-08-20

Face it, Chrome is not innovative. Everything it's doing was already being done by someone else.

Reply Score: 1

RE[3]: Comment by Kroc
by Stratoukos on Tue 24th Nov 2009 12:11 UTC in reply to "RE[2]: Comment by Kroc"
Stratoukos Member since:
2009-02-11

the main two being that it goes through Opera proxies, and that there are terms and conditions that make it akin to the App Store


It doesn't go through Opera proxies. It goes through Opera proxies only if you cannot set port forwarding on your router to aid beginners that don't know how to do it.

As for their distribution policies, they do have something like an App store but it's not the only way of distributing Opera Unite apps. If you don't want to agree with their TOS you can just distribute your apps elsewhere.

Reply Score: 2

RE[3]: Comment by Kroc
by No it isnt on Tue 24th Nov 2009 12:49 UTC in reply to "RE[2]: Comment by Kroc"
No it isnt Member since:
2005-11-14

Why do you sound like you've just deducted 50 IQ points every time you comment on Opera?

Reply Score: 2

RE[2]: Comment by Kroc
by Tuishimi on Tue 24th Nov 2009 07:20 UTC in reply to "RE: Comment by Kroc"
Tuishimi Member since:
2005-07-06

you sound like an American blogger who thinks if something isnt popular in silicon valley, it is not popular anywhere else in the world

Ouch! Those close-minded Americans who think the world revolves around them are as bad as those snooty European elitists who know they are right and everyone else is wrong!

Jeez people, why can't we live together and accept that everyone is different, culturally, economically, religiously... etc. And some people are simply more opinionated than others, or voice their opinions more vehemently.

Anyway, I think it is great that Opera is still fighting and trying to stay in the game of innovation. It has to be hard with IE so entrenched, and Firefox running the flank.

Reply Score: 6

RE[2]: Comment by Kroc
by NeoX on Tue 24th Nov 2009 18:13 UTC in reply to "RE: Comment by Kroc"
NeoX Member since:
2006-02-19

..you sound like an American blogger who thinks if something isnt popular in silicon valley, it is not popular anywhere else in the world


Hey, no need to generalize and make assumptions about all Americans. I am an american and I do not feel this way about stuff from silicon valley. On the contrary, I think innovation can come from anywhere on the planet. So don't judge people based on their home country. Wow, is mankind ever going to stop this kind of judging?

Reply Score: 1

RE: Comment by Kroc
by Googol on Tue 24th Nov 2009 09:56 UTC in reply to "Comment by Kroc"
Googol Member since:
2006-11-24

what drivel.

As if the evaluation of their marketing would have anything to do with what the software actually is and how it works in the end.

The first page of rage is also useless, a section on why it is not open-scource likewise. 95% of people run their browser on an OS that is non open to start with, and nobody cares whether IE is open. Get over it you little FOSS nazis, there is open and closed, just pick.

I didn't even know you can share data on Facebook, other than pictures, in that you 'publish' them there. Plus, of course 200 million FB users can be wrong, because neither is FB a very bright thing as such, nor are the users the brightest, splurting out drivel about their useless private lives nobody wants to know ;) So I guess its a draw, hm?

Also, I probably make use of only a fraction of the functionality of any software, but that does not mean the software is doomed only because the features are there anyway. What was that article about again? I couldn't figure.

Reply Score: 4

RE: Comment by Kroc
by wumip on Tue 24th Nov 2009 18:15 UTC in reply to "Comment by Kroc"
wumip Member since:
2009-08-20

It's too bad that the "factoryjoe" blog post is utter nonsense. He actually admitted later that he got it all wrong (you don't need to log and and go through Opera's servers), and the only problem he was actually having was that Unite was so hyped.

So... FAIL. Try again.

Reply Score: 1

wow...
by google_ninja on Tue 24th Nov 2009 00:54 UTC
google_ninja
Member since:
2006-02-05

just watched this http://www.opera.com/freedom/, and I don't think I have ever seen anything so mind rendingly dumb.

Reply Score: 1

RE: wow...
by linumax on Tue 24th Nov 2009 06:30 UTC in reply to "wow..."
linumax Member since:
2007-02-07

Rather offtopic, but I just find the freedom in the link you posted rather funny, considering Opera just caved in to demands of Chinese overlords and agreed to provide a censored version of Opera Mini to Chinese users.

( http://asia.cnet.com/blogs/sinobytes/post.htm?id=63015016 )

Reply Score: 2

RE[2]: wow...
by google_ninja on Tue 24th Nov 2009 13:22 UTC in reply to "RE: wow..."
google_ninja Member since:
2006-02-05

The whole idea that servers are "the man" on the internet, and are out there keeping the PC down, until now opera came along with their P2P software to bring power to the masses is retarded on so many levels. Opera is pretty much marketing to a tech audience, they shouldn't be saying things that are so inaccurate they are almost offensive to someone who understands computers.

Reply Score: 1

RE[3]: wow...
by wumip on Tue 24th Nov 2009 18:24 UTC in reply to "RE[2]: wow..."
wumip Member since:
2009-08-20

What on earth are you talking about?

You are clearly a bit too thick to understand the concept of Unite. But you should be educating yourself instead of spouting nonsense.

Reply Score: 1

RE[4]: wow...
by google_ninja on Tue 24th Nov 2009 18:42 UTC in reply to "RE[3]: wow..."
google_ninja Member since:
2006-02-05

I am paraphrasing the Opera video, which was the whole point of the comment. You are actually agreeing with me, what they are saying is mind rendingly retarded

Reply Score: 2

RE[5]: wow...
by wumip on Tue 24th Nov 2009 21:44 UTC in reply to "RE[4]: wow..."
wumip Member since:
2009-08-20

You are not paraphrasing it. You are misrepresenting it.

Reply Score: 1

RE[2]: wow...
by Laurence on Tue 24th Nov 2009 13:49 UTC in reply to "RE: wow..."
Laurence Member since:
2007-03-26

Rather offtopic, but I just find the freedom in the link you posted rather funny, considering Opera just caved in to demands of Chinese overlords and agreed to provide a censored version of Opera Mini to Chinese users.

( http://asia.cnet.com/blogs/sinobytes/post.htm?id=63015016 )


Most companies (Google included) have been forced to do that though.
After all, it's better that, than providing no product what-so-ever (which was the alternive posed)

Reply Score: 2

RE[2]: wow...
by wumip on Tue 24th Nov 2009 18:22 UTC in reply to "RE: wow..."
wumip Member since:
2009-08-20

Opera is just complying with local laws. Just like Google, Microsoft and Yahoo did before them, remember?

When the Chinese government knocks on your door, the last thing you want to do is to piss them off.

Also, Opera is not providing a censored version. It was ordered to only allow Chinese people to use the Chinese people. While they are behind the firewall, it isn't Opera doing the censoring.

So basically, you are talking nonsense.

Reply Score: 1

RE: wow...
by wumip on Tue 24th Nov 2009 18:21 UTC in reply to "wow..."
wumip Member since:
2009-08-20

What's dumb about it? I don't get it.

Reply Score: 1

RE[2]: wow...
by google_ninja on Tue 24th Nov 2009 18:50 UTC in reply to "RE: wow..."
google_ninja Member since:
2006-02-05

Servers are not super computers that control our lives. They are just like other computers, just running a certain kind of software. There is nothing unique about unite, peer to peer networks with limited decentralization have been around and quite popular for almost a decade. You have just the same amount of freedom when sharing files using one of about a billion server based free file sharing services, or any of the many popular existing peer to peer file sharing services as unite. In fact, you have significantly MORE freedom with something like GNUtella, since you don't have to agree to a fairly restrictive agreement, and you aren't going through a single companies proxy server to do it.

Client/Server vs P2P have nothing to do with the idea of freedom vs no freedom. The lack of freedom on the internet is something like what happens when a governament filters the web usage of a country, so as to maintain propaganda. Calling a computer not having installed some sort of server software oppressed trivializes the whole idea of what freedom actually is.

I am working on my dev machine right now, which has four different servers installed on it. Does that make me oppressive? Do I rule your life on the web because I have servers installed on my machine and you don't on yours? Will installing opera unite on your machine have any effect on my machine, or the role it is playing? How about my rackspace box? It is an order of magnitude more powerful then PCs. Does it have any effect on you? Do you have an effect on it?

The premise of the campaign is moronic. It uses politically charged terminology to describe problems that don't exist, trying to paint their product as something that people actually need or care about.

Reply Score: 1

RE[3]: wow...
by smyru on Tue 24th Nov 2009 20:51 UTC in reply to "RE[2]: wow..."
smyru Member since:
2009-11-24

Servers are not super computers that control our lives.


It all boils down to who's in charge of the server. And your data stored there. This ad is not targeted at power technical users.

The premise of the campaign is moronic. It uses politically charged terminology to describe problems that don't exist, trying to paint their product as something that people actually need or care about.


This kind of problems do exist. Let me just remind you initial Chrome EULA.

Reply Score: 1

RE[3]: wow...
by wumip on Tue 24th Nov 2009 21:48 UTC in reply to "RE[2]: wow..."
wumip Member since:
2009-08-20

<blockquote>Servers are not super computers that control our lives.</blockquote>
No one claimed that either. What the video says is that we have come to rely on other people's servers to do stuff. But now there's an alternative.

<blockquote>There is nothing unique about unite, peer to peer networks with limited decentralization have been around and quite popular for almost a decade.</blockquote>
You are extremely narrow-minded. File sharing is just a tiny and limited use case for Unite. It's just something people easily understand.

<blockquote>In fact, you have significantly MORE freedom with something like GNUtella, since you don't have to agree to a fairly restrictive agreement, and you aren't going through a single companies proxy server to do it.</blockquote>
The proxy is just a fallback if a direct connection isn't possible.

<blockquote>Calling a computer not having installed some sort of server software oppressed trivializes the whole idea of what freedom actually is.</blockquote>
Opera never called anyone oppressed. In fact, Opera itself runs several types of servers. The point of the video was that you now have a choice.

<blockquote>The premise of the campaign is moronic.</blockquote>
No, it's just you who doesn't get it. So I wonder who the moron is...

Reply Score: 2

RE[4]: wow...
by google_ninja on Tue 24th Nov 2009 22:04 UTC in reply to "RE[3]: wow..."
google_ninja Member since:
2006-02-05

You are extremely narrow-minded. File sharing is just a tiny and limited use case for Unite. It's just something people easily understand.


Ok, fine. Lets look at the other use cases and see how unique they are:

Chat
Streaming Media
File Sync
Online Photo Albums

Yeah, they are really pushing the bar.

The proxy is just a fallback if a direct connection isn't possible.


You also are agreeing to allow them to reuse, edit, or block access to your content arbitrarily, without warning, and without telling anyone.

Opera never called anyone oppressed. In fact, Opera itself runs several types of servers. The point of the video was that you now have a choice.


And my point is that servers have no impact on anything that be construed as "freedom", and that you have ALWAYS had a choice to run your own server, since servers are just software.

http://www.apache.org/
Apache: Promoting freedom from big servers since 1994

No, it's just you who doesn't get it. So I wonder who the moron is...


Again, they are using politically charged words to promote something that is not new, innovative, or interesting to anyone but a small amount of people who want to do this stuff, dont want to use the dozens of free services out there that are better, and are incapable of setting up services for themselves which are better.

Reply Score: 2

RE[5]: wow...
by wumip on Tue 24th Nov 2009 22:16 UTC in reply to "RE[4]: wow..."
wumip Member since:
2009-08-20

Ok, fine. Lets look at the other use cases and see how unique they are:

Yeah, they created some demo applications to start off. Other people have contributed with collaborative drawing boards, backup/synchronization over the net, etc. This is just the beginning. Unite is completely new.

If you can't see how computers being able to communicate instead of just being passive members of the web has huge potential, I guess that's your own problems.

Yeah, they are really pushing the bar.

Again, they are just some demos for some obvious use cases.

You also are agreeing to allow them to reuse, edit, or block access to your content arbitrarily, without warning, and without telling anyone.

Nope. They will require a court order to block your account, and even so, you don't have to use their servers to get a domain name.

And my point is that servers have no impact on anything that be construed as "freedom", and that you have ALWAYS had a choice to run your own server, since servers are just software.

YOU had that choice. 99% of the population never did. They do now.

Again, they are using politically charged words to promote something that is not new, innovative

It is indeed new and innovative, in that anyone can use it, and many of the applications are things you can't do with just Apache anyway.

Edited 2009-11-24 22:24 UTC

Reply Score: 2

RE[6]: wow...
by google_ninja on Tue 24th Nov 2009 22:34 UTC in reply to "RE[5]: wow..."
google_ninja Member since:
2006-02-05

collaborative drawing boards: http://www.dabbleboard.com/
backup/synchronization over the net: https://www.dropbox.com/

Both of these services are absolutely fantastic. This is what I am saying, if you want this stuff, it is there. If you want to self host, a lot of times there are packaged solutions as well.

If you can't see how computers being able to communicate instead of just being passive members of the web has huge potential, I guess that's your own problems.


There has been no such thing as a "passive web" for at LEAST a decade. Maybe thats the problem, have you ever heard of things like facebook, flickr, myspace, twitter, youtube? What problem does unite solve that has not already been solved for years in dozens of different ways?

Nope. They will require a court order to block your account, and even so, you don't have to use their servers to get a domain name.


This is what I was referring to, it is from their EULA

You agree not to use Opera Unite to upload, transfer or otherwise make available files, images, code, materials, or other information or content that is obscene, vulgar, hateful, threatening, or that violates any laws or third-party rights, hereunder but not limited to third-party intellectual property rights. We do not claim ownership of any User Generated Content. However, by submitting User Generated Content to us, you grant us and our affiliates the right and limited license to use, copy, display, perform, distribute and adapt this User Generated Content for the purpose of carrying out the Services.

You agree that we are not liable for User Generated Content that is provided by others. We have no duty to pre-screen User Generated Content, but we have the right to refuse to post, edit, or deliver submitted User Generated Content. We reserve the right to remove User Generated Content for any reason, but we are not responsible for any failure or delay in removing such material. We reserve the right to block any user’s access to any content, web site or web page in our sole discretion. Opera Software ASA reserves the right to terminate your account if you use your account privileges to unlawfully transmit copyrighted material without a license, valid defense or fair use privilege to do so.


YOU had that choice. 99% of the population never did. They do now.
No. Server software can be installed on any computer, just like client software. Its just software.

Its sort of like Opera saying "For years, PCs have been browsing the internet using web browsers. This is a privilege denied to servers. WELL NOT ANYMORE. Now you can install browsers on Servers too! Welcome to freedom." It is just as silly.

It is indeed new and innovative, in that anyone can use it, and many of the applications are things you can't do with just Apache anyway.


Who can't use dropbox? Or flickr? Or facebook?

Reply Score: 2

RE[7]: wow...
by wumip on Wed 25th Nov 2009 07:56 UTC in reply to "RE[6]: wow..."
wumip Member since:
2009-08-20

collaborative drawing boards: http://www.dabbleboard.com/
backup/synchronization over the net: https://www.dropbox.com/

Yeah, relying on someone else again. Unite lets you do all this without having to go through someone else's servers. Also, Unite makes these possible in one place, while you have to use several different sites.

This is what I am saying, if you want this stuff, it is there.

Except run by someone else, not as easy to set up, etc.

There has been no such thing as a "passive web" for at LEAST a decade. Maybe thats the problem, have you ever heard of things like facebook, flickr, myspace, twitter, youtube? What problem does unite solve that has not already been solved for years in dozens of different ways?

That your computer can accept incoming requests from browsers. For example, the Opera guys remote controlled an RC car using Unite. You can do that with anything. Any device would be able to accept commands from a simple browser.

This is what I was referring to, it is from their EULA

Yes, exactly like your ISP's EULA tells you not to break the law. Your point being?

Its sort of like Opera saying "For years, PCs have been browsing the internet using web browsers. This is a privilege denied to servers. WELL NOT ANYMORE. Now you can install browsers on Servers too! Welcome to freedom." It is just as silly.

No it isn't because Unite opens completely new possibilities.

Who can't use dropbox? Or flickr? Or facebook?

You are looking at limited use cases again. Unite is so much more than just file sharing.

Reply Score: 1

v Spellcheck?
by djitanium on Tue 24th Nov 2009 01:23 UTC
RE: Spellcheck?
by Adurbe on Tue 24th Nov 2009 12:45 UTC in reply to "Spellcheck?"
Adurbe Member since:
2005-07-06

Goodness.. he made a mistake. Someone pointed it out, he corrected it. Let that be the end of it.

As an aside, not all users of this site have English as a first language. It's ok to cut them some slack every now and then.

Reply Score: 3

RE: Spellcheck?
by righard on Tue 24th Nov 2009 14:05 UTC in reply to "Spellcheck?"
righard Member since:
2007-12-26

You won't begrudge him what...?

Reply Score: 2

I actually think O.Unite is great
by avih on Tue 24th Nov 2009 02:29 UTC
avih
Member since:
2006-03-16

I'm not an Opera user. I use Firefox daily, and even maintain a popular Firefox addon. I use Chrome as a "backup browser" and check Opera and I.E. occasionally. Bottom line is, I probably cannot be accused as an Opera fanboy.

However, I do think Opera Unite has an amazing potential.

Sharing photos or music or even videos without uploading/processing anything in advance, with the receiver not having to register anywhere is just great. True, many people wouldn't have the bandwidth to serve substantial amounts of data, however, I think it might just be enough for casual sharing.

I seriously think it's a first time that a non-technical user could have a relatively general local web server up and running in no time, DNS issues taken care of automatically or handled manually, custom share/serve options and configurations available in a blitz (as in photos/audio/password/etc) with possibly many more such custom server apps in the future accessible in a click.

People don't want a web server per-se. They want to expose data and information. With custom data modules hopefully available, in addition to the basic ones which are built-in, I think people will actually use it.

Of course, the concept itself of a web server with custom apps can be implemented as a stand alone application, but the integration into Opera just makes it way more accessible on one hand, and in-line with Opera's concept of "[almost] All your online needs can be satisfied with your browser" on the other hand.

The key word here is accessibility. And it's doing just that. Plain and simple. I.e. I can easily see myself launching Opera just for temporarily and quickly sharing a folder of music or photos or even video (to be played/navigated via an embedded player by the other party), instead of the overkill of uploading them to some social networking site or setting up a web server, configuring it, managing DNS issues, etc. It would just be too much hassle for such a casual share and it just wouldn't happen.

Opera Unite has a great potential IMHO. Looking forward for future developments in this area.

Edited 2009-11-24 02:45 UTC

Reply Score: 4

Soulbender Member since:
2005-08-18

instead of the overkill of uploading them to some social networking site


Oh God yes, using picasa or facebook or such sites is such a hassle. Of course, once you get by that hassle your pictures are actually available *all the time* rather than only when you happen to be online with Opera running. Of course, if you're already using any other browser (you know, like the majority of the worlds population) you'd have to first download, install and get used to Opera before you can share your stuff.
Yes, I can clearly see what a hit this will be...

Reply Score: 0

avih Member since:
2006-03-16

No need for sarcasm, it doesn't add any more weight to your argument.

In case you missed my point, I was referring to an overkill for certain scenarios. Picasa and Facebook have their place, but it doesn't mean there isn't more room for other tools, sometimes more appropriate for the task at hand.

When was the last time you took a 32G SD card out of a digital camera and uploaded it in full to <put-your-favorite-online-host-here>?

It takes time. Much time. Hours sometimes. If you want to save bandwidth and selectively upload files, then you have to pick them one by one. OTOH, if you only want to let someone browse the photos and pick one he likes and then instantly see it in full size, local server with thumbs preview is the only reasonable option.

Of course, if you want it permanently online, then an online host is the way to go, but that's not always the case. I guess we perceive the words "casual" and "immediate" differently. So be it, I can live with that.

Edited 2009-11-24 04:04 UTC

Reply Score: 3

google_ninja Member since:
2006-02-05

I would use dropbox way before I would use unite.

Reply Score: 0

wumip Member since:
2009-08-20

That's because you fail at understanding what Unite is. You have just decided in advance that you aren't going to like it, so you insist on misrepresenting it every change you get.

Reply Score: 1

Comment by kaiwai
by kaiwai on Tue 24th Nov 2009 05:16 UTC
kaiwai
Member since:
2005-07-06

I'm running it right now and I'm fairly happy except for one website I can't access:

http://my.vuw.ac.nz

Unless I change it to identify as Firefox or Internet Explorer. I understand that this isn't the fault of Opera but at the same time they need to talk to these software makers to stop doing the crap with a browser check before logging in - it pisses me off.

Another interesting fault I find is with a submission form on a forum I visit where there are massive gaps made when making a post - when ever I report the problem which I have done so for the last half a dozen releases, they refuse to fix it.

I can accept a things that just don't work because of Internet Explorer only technologies but when I see websites load without a problem on Safari, Chrome, Firefox and Internet Explorer I have to ask when are we going to see Opera get their act together? when are Opera engineers going to fix the short comings in their browser?

Yes, I see that it is free and I am happy for it but I find it bloody hypocritical to run off and whine to the EU competition watch dog when Opera themselves haven't lifted a single finger in the last decade to fix these problems. Maybe if Opera didn't have these massive problems and were still getting shafted I would have the slightest hint of sympathy for the problem they're having with trying to get greater marketshare on the desktop.

Reply Score: 2

RE: Comment by kaiwai
by deathshadow on Tue 24th Nov 2009 07:19 UTC in reply to "Comment by kaiwai"
deathshadow Member since:
2005-07-12

Well what do you expect from some **** website that requires full blown Java to function, and has source code that looks like a trip in the wayback machine to 1997?

Not opera's fault you can't access a website written by people who by all accounts have no **** business having a website in the first place.

Hell, that website refusing to let you in unless you turn on JAVA (not javascript, but full on Java) is enough for me to report the site as suspect/scam. I most certainly wouldn't voluntarily open it - Just exactly what is it?

Edited 2009-11-24 07:21 UTC

Reply Score: 4

RE[2]: Comment by kaiwai
by kaiwai on Tue 24th Nov 2009 08:42 UTC in reply to "RE: Comment by kaiwai"
kaiwai Member since:
2005-07-06

Well what do you expect from some **** website that requires full blown Java to function, and has source code that looks like a trip in the wayback machine to 1997?

Not opera's fault you can't access a website written by people who by all accounts have no **** business having a website in the first place.

Hell, that website refusing to let you in unless you turn on JAVA (not javascript, but full on Java) is enough for me to report the site as suspect/scam. I most certainly wouldn't voluntarily open it - Just exactly what is it?


Unfortunately it is my university website where I can log in and find out my university marks for the year. It is almost as crappy as blackboard. About the only thing that doesn't suck from Victoria University is the email service - and that is because it has been outsourced to Microsoft via their Outlook Live service.

Reply Score: 2

RE[3]: Comment by kaiwai
by StephenBeDoper on Wed 25th Nov 2009 00:25 UTC in reply to "RE[2]: Comment by kaiwai"
StephenBeDoper Member since:
2005-07-06


"Hell, that website refusing to let you in unless you turn on JAVA (not javascript, but full on Java) is enough for me to report the site as suspect/scam. I most certainly wouldn't voluntarily open it - Just exactly what is it?

Unfortunately it is my university website where I can log in and find out my university marks for the year.
"

Ouch. The university I attended did something even worse during my second or third year. The originally had a simple, old-school CGI/Perl application for course registration - it worked in any current browser (by late 90s standards), and even the on-campus kiosks for course registration were just dumb terminals that ran the registration site in a text-only browser.

Then they bought & converted over to this IIS/ActiveX-based piece of crap that only worked with IE on Win9x/NT (when it worked, instead of just crashing - the client and the server, that is). The software was so ill-suited (or just badly-configured) that, in order to register for a full-year course, you had to register for it *twice* - once for each semester.

Reply Score: 2

RE[2]: Comment by kaiwai
by Moochman on Tue 24th Nov 2009 12:35 UTC in reply to "RE: Comment by kaiwai"
Moochman Member since:
2005-07-06

A lot of reputable sites use Java applets. Facebook uses it for its photo uploader, for instance. Just having Java applets does not make a website "suspect".

Edited 2009-11-24 12:35 UTC

Reply Score: 1

Opra is better
by Glynser on Tue 24th Nov 2009 07:57 UTC
Glynser
Member since:
2007-11-29

Opra is better than Firfox, Safri, Intrnet Explrer and Chrme

Reply Score: 4

Comment by yerenkow
by yerenkow on Tue 24th Nov 2009 08:07 UTC
yerenkow
Member since:
2009-06-11

Opera is very innovative browser.

About Chinese thingy, which is popular last time:
Opera as a company must obey laws, even Chinese.
If I had some service (google search, opera proxy, whatever) which is illegal in some countries, and due to my services some peoples could get into prison, or get big fine, even without my knowledge, of course I'll shut it down.
Because commercial company is not the same as some volunteer freedom fighters community.

Ofcourse IMHO ;)

Reply Score: 1

Comment by Coxy
by Coxy on Tue 24th Nov 2009 12:43 UTC
Coxy
Member since:
2006-07-01

> "We promised Opera Unite would reinvent the Web"

Well unless your going to somehow magically increase Opera's market share this isn't going to happen. You'll just be reinventing the web for the 1.n% of Opera using geeks.

Reply Score: 2

RE: Comment by Coxy
by wumip on Tue 24th Nov 2009 18:24 UTC in reply to "Comment by Coxy"
wumip Member since:
2009-08-20

Opera's market share is 3% or so globally, and approaching 10% in Europe.

Opera is the dominant mobile phone browser.

Also, Unite could well increase Opera's market share.

Reply Score: 1

RE: Comment by Coxy
by smyru on Tue 24th Nov 2009 20:36 UTC in reply to "Comment by Coxy"
smyru Member since:
2009-11-24

You'll just be reinventing the web for the 1.n% of Opera using geeks.


The fact that it is 1% all around you does not mean it is the same elsewhere. Opera has huge gains in markets outside USA.

Reply Score: 1

Actually this is damn cool!
by Moochman on Tue 24th Nov 2009 13:43 UTC
Moochman
Member since:
2005-07-06

I just tested it out and I must say, I'm liking it a lot.

Using this I can share *all* of my music and photos without doing having to upload anything!!! I can share way more content than I ever could using a hosting service, without wasting a single minute of my time!! How cool is that?

I can also imagine that in the future someone could cook up addition Unite apps, for instance that take advantage of the metadata stored in iTunes, iPhoto or Picasa to present a much better-organized view on my media.

All I can say is, download this thing and try it right now! Even if you never end up using it, it will open your mind to a world of new possibilities!

Reply Score: 2

Opera Unite replacing Upnp
by 3rdalbum on Tue 24th Nov 2009 15:38 UTC
3rdalbum
Member since:
2008-05-26

Rhythmbox in Ubuntu 9.10 is broken - doesn't support UPnP music shares. Tangerine is also broken, so no UPnP music.

And Rhythmbox can't play music stored on Samba shares.

Enter Opera Unite - it has a web-based music player. I run it on my home server, and point my client to the server's internal IP address, and presto! Music playback across the network. Life is good.

Reply Score: 2

yes!
by 2501 on Tue 24th Nov 2009 17:37 UTC
2501
Member since:
2005-07-14

I have been using Opera for the past 10+ years and this is the best ever. Best browser for me ....Chrome on second place....hughe potential.
-2501

Reply Score: 1

Not ment for tech people
by jefro on Tue 24th Nov 2009 22:04 UTC
jefro
Member since:
2007-04-13

This is a good product for those that are not as advanced as others. The fact that you are on OSnews suggests that you can run apache or xampp so this is of no value to you. It does serve a use for many that are just starting out or don't want to learn a lot to get some files shared with family. Granny can do this.

Reply Score: 1

A lot of nonsense being said....
by abdavidson on Wed 25th Nov 2009 04:35 UTC
abdavidson
Member since:
2005-07-06

... that Unite is nothing new, or that you can install servers yourself (uh hu) or use Facebook.

No normal Joe will do the first, and secondly Facebook or whatever else are single implementations of specific ideas. Both miss the point that Unite is a platform that doesn't require tech knowledge to install and is a green field waiting for innovative ideas to fill it.

The single best Unite App that I've found is one I found last night which has nothing to do with sharing of any type for instance. It's the UJS Manager ( http://unite.opera.com/application/401 ) which I've got sitting in a panel in my Opera install which lets me manage my UserJS stuff, turning on or off each script independantly, editing, adding, deleting them. Great stuff and fantastic off the wall thinking to use Unite for something that manages the browser experience itself.

I've used The Lounge a few times, first time was when MSN went down while a mate and I were chatting. I emailed him my Lounge link and we kept on going in there. Handy and a zero install useful little toy.

I had some photos of a holiday I wanted to send to my brother. I could have used dropbox (install, get him to install, link, etc etc) but instead used the photo sharing with a password in Unite and pointed him to the url. Saved me hassle: installing a sharing app, or physically uploading the hundreds of photos and securing the sharing so only those I nominate could access. Saved him hassle: he just visited a url, tapped in the password and grabbed what he wanted.

That is by-the-way though. Unite is not a server or a function but a platform or framework (man I hate that overused term). Yes, so far you could use Facebook or Photobucket or whatever else for many of the applications but those are just the first tentative ideas implemented in it so far. The UserJS manager is a clear sign of just how limited those ideas are by how off the wall it is.

(Again, I wholeheartily recommend UJS Manager to any Opera user btw... two thumbs up)

Reply Score: 2

sbergman27 Member since:
2005-07-24

Both miss the point that Unite is a platform that doesn't require tech knowledge to install and is a green field waiting for innovative ideas to fill it.

Wow. An explosion of servers being run by non-technical people really would be a green field just waiting to be filled by innovative malware.

Reply Score: 0

abdavidson Member since:
2005-07-06

Firstly, what do you think the web is? It's a big scary place where people either wander into the badlands unexpectedly or the badlands find them.

You might as well say the same thing about *ANYTHING* on the internet.

Facebook, Dropbox, IRC, MSN, Email, whatever you name can be bad.

That is why it is unfortunately nearly 100% necessary to have anti-malware software (or sense) of some type on any machine that connects to any other, no matter how. (Be that directly or via physically transferred data)

Seriously, is spouting crap like that the best use of those who seemingly hate Opera for not being F/OSS/Firefox/Chrome's time?

Reply Score: 2

wumip Member since:
2009-08-20

Wow. An explosion of servers being run by non-technical people really would be a green field just waiting to be filled by innovative malware.

Filling computers with malware can be done today. There's nothing that makes Unite any more or less vulnerable to malware.

Fail.

Reply Score: 1

A bold and cool move
by jbasko on Thu 26th Nov 2009 03:27 UTC
jbasko
Member since:
2009-03-17

Depending on what level of the technology stack you look at or how you abstract the idea of opera unite, it may seem like nothing new. But the angle opera took in developing this app/service is very new!

In comparison to any other software, a browser is something that everybody who uses a computer know how to use. Making an originally client-based browser become server-based, while keeping the ease-of-use or intuitiveness of a browser is a very bold and cool move. The browser is already the window to the web world; opera now has made us looking through this window see ourselves, easily...

There is value in having a browser do all the common stuff people want to do (music/photo-sharing etc.). It means they don't have to adhere or choose a particular website (e.g. facebook) with all the social net underpinnings. They simply can do it themselves without relying on any particular service. You can say p2p can already do this, which is true, but try explaining a bittorrent app to a non-techy. They usually get the part about downloading the torrent file, but then get totally confused about the bittorrent app itself. So opera being a browser and doing the things people want to do and making it easy, gets my thumbs up! ^_-

Reply Score: 1