Linked by Thom Holwerda on Mon 30th Nov 2009 19:37 UTC, submitted by -ujb-
Morphos The MorphOS team seems to be on a roll. Recently, they added support for the PowerPC G4 Mac mini models from Apple, meaning it suddenly became a lot easier to get your hands on a computer capable of running MorphOS. As expected, the team has now announced that a release with PowerMac G4 support is coming as well.
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v Wow!
by djitanium on Mon 30th Nov 2009 21:16 UTC
RE: Wow!
by cerbie on Mon 30th Nov 2009 22:30 UTC in reply to "Wow!"
cerbie Member since:
2006-01-02

Four years old, with plenty of life left, but in need of a good OS, with OS X PPC support all around being nil. Straight Debian is OK, but not great.

Edited 2009-11-30 22:31 UTC

Reply Score: 2

RE: Wow!
by womble on Mon 30th Nov 2009 23:48 UTC in reply to "Wow!"
womble Member since:
2009-11-30

Now if only Windows 7 could boast such compatibility...

Reply Score: 1

RE[2]: Wow!
by cerbie on Tue 1st Dec 2009 00:39 UTC in reply to "RE: Wow!"
cerbie Member since:
2006-01-02

*scratches head* it supports my notebook, 8 years old, as well as Linux, and a bit better than Xorg. If I could afford to max out the RAM, it would be its primary OS. For a new MS OS, it's rather exceptional, in that regard. At least bash MS for what they do wrong.

Edited 2009-12-01 00:42 UTC

Reply Score: 2

RE: Wow!
by Kroc on Tue 1st Dec 2009 11:22 UTC in reply to "Wow!"
Kroc Member since:
2005-11-10

Still cheaper and with better availability than Amiga OS 4 hardware.

Reply Score: 4

RE[2]: Wow!
by rhyder on Wed 2nd Dec 2009 17:38 UTC in reply to "RE: Wow!"
rhyder Member since:
2005-09-28

Absolutely. In fact, it's a bit annoying that they're finally doing something that a lot of enthusiasts were suggesting five years ago.

Reply Score: 2

Comment by porcel
by porcel on Mon 30th Nov 2009 21:22 UTC
porcel
Member since:
2006-01-28

Go Morphos go, but anyone who would want serious support on that kind of hardware from a stable OS would much sooner pick Linux than Morphos.

But whatever, if it keeps the MorphOS people happy, who am I to argue_

Reply Score: 1

RE: Comment by porcel
by AmigaRobbo on Mon 30th Nov 2009 22:01 UTC in reply to "Comment by porcel"
AmigaRobbo Member since:
2005-11-15

Have you ever tried Linux on PPC?

I've got an old G4 dual 533, I tried Yellow Dog, Debian, SUSE and Ubuntu, and all were, once I'd jumped through hoops to install them, and even managed to get some of them to see both processors, and get the sound working, they are were slower and more sluggish than Tiger. And well, looks are subjective, but OSX verses the old version of Gnome/KDE, well it's what I believe the Americans call a no-brainer isn't it?

MorphOS on my Mac Mini boots in about 4 seconds, is lighting fast, and to be honest OWB is faster, and does as much as Firefox can do, before you start on the (admittedly sometimes v. nice) plugins. And is pretty much stable, MorphOS as a lightweight OS for old PPC macs who's Apple has turned their back on? You know, it just might work.

Reply Score: 3

RE[2]: Comment by porcel
by orfanum on Tue 1st Dec 2009 07:44 UTC in reply to "RE: Comment by porcel"
orfanum Member since:
2006-06-02

I absolutely second that emotion, especially since last time I looked (about 18 months ago) I was not able to get 3D acceleration for my ATI card with Linux, and sluggish wasn't the word. I suspect a lot of people have G4s about the place, to date unloved and unused. Yes, you can run OS 9 on them, or earlier versions of OS X, but the former is obviously no longer developed, and in the latter case, Apple's OS upgrade attrition model means that applications tend to fall off for anything older than the last two iterations of OS X.

All power to you, I say.

Reply Score: 2

RE[3]: Comment by porcel
by AmigaRobbo on Tue 1st Dec 2009 20:31 UTC in reply to "RE[2]: Comment by porcel"
AmigaRobbo Member since:
2005-11-15

I just tried Ubuntu PPC, Karmic Kola's PPC .ISO file is too large for a CD-RW, apparently there is a one available that will fit, but I gave up looking as I'm too busy. I found an old one, for Intrepid Ibex, It's not a live CD, just an old fashioned old school non-graphical install one, No problem with that, but it failed to detect the CD it booted from... I think I have vague memories of the command I had to type it to get it work, but I've got other things to do.

Maybe a different Distro© would work better, but Linux to revive old Macs is a nice idea that simply dosn't work out in the real world.

Reply Score: 3

RE: Comment by porcel
by strcpy on Tue 1st Dec 2009 00:24 UTC in reply to "Comment by porcel"
strcpy Member since:
2009-05-20

Could you please try to avoid bashing other (open or closed source) operating systems?

If that is impossible, could you at least limit your Linux zealotry to Linux articles, possibly polluting also articles related to Microsoft (because that is presumably impossible for you to avoid)?

Edited 2009-12-01 00:26 UTC

Reply Score: 2

RE[2]: Comment by porcel
by porcel on Tue 1st Dec 2009 20:47 UTC in reply to "RE: Comment by porcel"
porcel Member since:
2006-01-28

Bashing...

I said that if it makes the Morphos people happy, who am I to argue? After all, Linux itself started as someone´s hobby.

But there is no argument that Linux provides a mature operating system with thousands of applications that would work on G4 systems. This is an objective material fact. I have one such system running Debian.

And I will not be censored by you or anybody. We are here to discuss operating systems, their advantages, disadvantages. If that bothers you, or if you just plain hate anything that has to do with Linux as all your posts prove, go get some air. Really.

Reply Score: 2

RE[3]: Comment by porcel
by strcpy on Wed 2nd Dec 2009 13:23 UTC in reply to "RE[2]: Comment by porcel"
strcpy Member since:
2009-05-20

Yes. Linux is mature and Linux is teh best. We've heard it already. Actually we've heard it so many times that it makes us sick.

Reply Score: 2

Looks like all that great PPC hardware...
by madcrow on Mon 30th Nov 2009 21:31 UTC
madcrow
Member since:
2006-03-13

... that Steve Jobs and company have declared "unworthy" of running the newest versions of OS X have found a great new home in the Amiga-like community. With support for the Mac minis and now the high-end G4 workstation towers, powerful hardware for running Amiga software has probably never been cheaper.

@Porcel: MorphOS is quite stable itself and offers many advantages over Linux as a client/workstation OS. Yes it's a bit expensive, but it seems to be an absolute speed demon with a wonderful UI and great compatibility with classic Amiga software, so it seems quite worth it for me.

Edited 2009-11-30 21:41 UTC

Reply Score: 2

Duh!
by KugelKurt on Mon 30th Nov 2009 23:02 UTC
KugelKurt
Member since:
2005-07-06

They should get SDK licenses from MS and Sony and then release MorphOS for Xbox360 and PS3.

Reply Score: 2

RE: Duh!
by -ujb- on Tue 1st Dec 2009 00:21 UTC in reply to "Duh!"
-ujb- Member since:
2005-10-21

The 360 would probably not the worst target, but the PS3 is rather completely out of question. The device is too different from yet supported computers. Also Sony will not allow to use the hardware at its maximum. Plus, the current PS3 doesn't support 3rd party OSs anymore.
While a 360 port would be nice, I think resources are better spend to support as many Appe ppc computers as possible, especially the powerbooks are a good next goal.
Once a bit broader user base is established maybe demand will be high enough to sustain production of new ppc devices (be them based on Freescale 8610 or some QorIQ or AMCC's Titan or IBM's 476FB). But in the current situation ApplePowerC computers are the best choice.

Reply Score: 0

RE[2]: Duh!
by BigBentheAussie on Tue 1st Dec 2009 03:10 UTC in reply to "RE: Duh!"
BigBentheAussie Member since:
2008-03-29

Pffft. PS3 is a much easier target than 360 which is totally closed. At least PS3 has a history of supporting an 'other' OS. Of course they dropped that on the slim model, but the older models are still on shelves (barely). Also the 360 does funky stuff to make it seem as though you have multiple CPUs. The PS3, to all intents and purposes, only has one CPU, which is all an Amiga-like OS can support anyway. 2D acceleration, while not ideal, is plenty for a desktop experience, and 512meg is not a showstopper for such small footprint OSes with traditionally small apps. If you leave the Cell stuff alone for all but 3D or movie playback it would be a neat little low cost machine to run an OS on. With standard hardware and a large installed hardware base I would have thought a port to PS3 would be a no-brainer. Indeed OS4 devs openly contemplated how they might go about using the cells, so at least there is some thought in that direction.

Reply Score: 2

ATI video cards
by Andre on Tue 1st Dec 2009 07:31 UTC
Andre
Member since:
2005-07-06

First of all, I do not own a Mac.
If I would get a Mac, I would look
for a PPC mac anyways. Just a question.
If there would be an Nvidia card in it,
can I replace it with a normal ATI
card, or do I need a special Mac
version?

Reply Score: 1

RE: ATI video cards
by -ujb- on Tue 1st Dec 2009 08:04 UTC in reply to "ATI video cards"
-ujb- Member since:
2005-10-21

First of all, I do not own a Mac.
If I would get a Mac, I would look
for a PPC mac anyways. Just a question.
If there would be an Nvidia card in it,
can I replace it with a normal ATI
card, or do I need a special Mac
version?

It has to be a Mac gfx card, due to Firmware used in that maschines. Pegasos and Efika can use "normal" gfx cards.

Reply Score: 2

RE[2]: ATI video cards
by Andre on Tue 1st Dec 2009 08:25 UTC in reply to "RE: ATI video cards"
Andre Member since:
2005-07-06

It has to be a Mac gfx card, due to Firmware used in that maschines. Pegasos and Efika can use "normal" gfx cards.

Thanks for the answer. I thought so, but I wasn't sure.

Reply Score: 1

RE[3]: ATI video cards
by Solow on Tue 1st Dec 2009 14:01 UTC in reply to "RE[2]: ATI video cards"
Solow Member since:
2006-05-28

There are firmware updates available on the net which allow you to flash PC graphics cards for use in various PPC Macs. Use a PC to do the flashing and transfer to the PPC Mac.

Reply Score: 2

RE[4]: ATI video cards
by chrisfriberg on Tue 1st Dec 2009 15:27 UTC in reply to "RE[3]: ATI video cards"
chrisfriberg Member since:
2009-04-08

I also had experience using a different graphics card pulled from a PC and put in my PPC mac. I don't think they necessarily needed to be "blessed" for the mac. If you have a card, just research if anyone else has used it in your particular model mac. I've had similar luck with RAM, HD, & peripheral cards as well.

Reply Score: 1

RE[3]: ATI video cards
by Android Fan on Tue 1st Dec 2009 17:01 UTC in reply to "RE[2]: ATI video cards"
Android Fan Member since:
2005-08-20

Pegasos and Efika can use several normal graphics cards, yes, but not nVidia cards.

Reply Score: 1

RE[2]: ATI video cards
by Cytor on Wed 2nd Dec 2009 12:13 UTC in reply to "RE: ATI video cards"
Cytor Member since:
2005-07-08

Isn't it possible to flash the video ROM of a standard PC-card with the ROM of a Mac-card? I believe it's possible for todays EFI-based Macs, but I'm not so sure for the old PPC OpenFirmware ones.

Just asking out of interest, I'm interested in buying an old PowerMac for this, too ;)

Reply Score: 1

RE[3]: ATI video cards
by Solow on Wed 2nd Dec 2009 14:55 UTC in reply to "RE[2]: ATI video cards"
Solow Member since:
2006-05-28

Yes it is. Take a look at themacaddress.com for a wiki with lots of cards you can do this to.

Reply Score: 1

SuperDaveOsbourne
Member since:
2007-06-24

I'm perplexed... Old hardware, had for 50-100 minimum, and likely 200+ for good G4 hardware (maybe donated if you are lucky). Then spend 200+ on an operating system for said worthless hardware? Its a bit hard for me to comprehend getting anything done but wishing upon a star about something that is justified post purchase only because it cost so much and not based on performance and getting-the-job-done (whatever that could be on a PPC pokey box).

Reply Score: 1

Thom_Holwerda Member since:
2005-06-29

...and you'r reading OSNews why, exactly?

That's like complaining on a classic car forum about why they don't buy new ones.

Reply Score: 4

the_randymon Member since:
2005-07-06

I concur - I'm still using a laptop I bought in 2000. It's a 550Mhz PIII with 128M RAM. I'm obviously not using for video editing or itunes, but for what I do (web, writing, photo editing) it's as good today as it was when I bought it. Old hardware is sometimes good enough, and think about the money I've saved by not buying a new computer every year ... Way to go Morphos. I've got an old Mac I might give it a try on, who knows, it might be fun.

Reply Score: 1

Android Fan Member since:
2005-08-20

"Then spend 200+ on an operating system for said worthless hardware? Its a bit hard for me to comprehend getting anything done but wishing upon a star about something that is justified post purchase only because it cost so much and not based on performance and getting-the-job-done (whatever that could be on a PPC pokey box)."

SuperDaveOsbourne, it's not about the age of the hardware as long as the hardware is in nice condition and working well, and Macs are known for that, aren't they? I guess there are people who change out their computer for the latest every two years, and for them yeah a four or six year old computer would be "ancient," although it seems crazy to me to use such a term with the length of time here.

Lastly, if by "PPC pokey box" you mean "slow" you just haven't tried MorphOS. It's the embodiment of quick and responsive, and that goes for older hardware too. For those used to needing a power-hungry processor with a load of CPU force to get any responsiveness out of Linux, Windows, or OS X, the use of MorphOS will be a wholly different experience.

This is not to say MorphOS doesn't need improvement. It needs more stability. It needs continued development (which is occurring) of the OWB browser to do more modern stuff. I think it could use a greater range of included apps "out of the box" from the installation media.

Reply Score: 2

rockwell Member since:
2005-09-13

//Lastly, if by "PPC pokey box" you mean "slow" you just haven't tried MorphOS. It's the embodiment of quick and responsive, and that goes for older hardware too. For those used to needing a power-hungry processor with a load of CPU force to get any responsiveness out of Linux, Windows, or OS X, the use of MorphOS will be a wholly different experience. //

Er, duh! That's because they won't have any apps to run worth a damn.

Reply Score: 2

cerbie Member since:
2006-01-02

Ah, but what if you have one of those boxes, and don't like it being a glorified paperweight? I Mean OS X was good on them, but it's like trying to run Win98 and use new software...it just gets annoying. I'm not up for spending the money, ATM, but it seems pretty nice.

If someone is willing to spend the money, I don't see anything wrong with it-. It's not an OS you can get for any old cheap computer (only specific old cheap computers ;) ), and someone wanting to be paid for their time and effort is hardly a bad thing.

Reply Score: 2

Comment by frood
by frood on Tue 1st Dec 2009 09:01 UTC
frood
Member since:
2005-07-06

Wow you're not wrong. Powermac G4's are going for less than £50 on ebay. That's far more like it as the Mac Mini's were in the hundreds. I've been waiting for *years* to try out MorphOS. I think this is finally an entry price I can cope with.

Reply Score: 1

Comment by Kroc
by Kroc on Tue 1st Dec 2009 11:04 UTC
Kroc
Member since:
2005-11-10

I'm having a _nightmare_ trying to review MorphOS on the MacMini. The half an hour limit makes it a little annoying trying to use the OS itself to write the review, but I've found that the OS is a real struggle to use because of various UX rough edges. It's not that it's bad, it's that it could be easier, and that I'm realising that to get a lot out of this OS I need to invest a heavy amount of time getting to know the community and discovering the 'way things are done' when it comes to an Amiga OS system.

I'm wrought between writing it off as more effort than it is worth and finding the time to invest. Things are very busy at this time and I may have to come back to it later.

Reply Score: 1

RE: Comment by Kroc
by Android Fan on Tue 1st Dec 2009 17:13 UTC in reply to "Comment by Kroc"
Android Fan Member since:
2005-08-20

"The half an hour limit makes it a little annoying trying to use the OS itself to write the review, but I've found that the OS is a real struggle to use because of various UX rough edges."

Kroc, I'm surprised to read this because I find MorphOS to be slick and polished. You should be able to write the review in its text editor "Ed." You should be able to set up shortcuts on the desktop to whatever apps you need. Yes, you will have to click in drawers like "Utilities" to find the apps for the first time. I guess you have installed it, and are not intending to review in LiveCD mode? I would not recommend basing a review of MorphOS on its LiveCD mode. Please keep going, want to read your review.

You can download IRC client Wookiechat and log onto irc.freenode.net's #morphos for help from the crew there, including several devs.

Reply Score: 1

RE[2]: Comment by Kroc
by Kroc on Tue 1st Dec 2009 20:54 UTC in reply to "RE: Comment by Kroc"
Kroc Member since:
2005-11-10

It’s harder for me than it seems; when you have an eye for UI, there’s many things that stick out as hurdles; and not just as the difference between being used to one system compared to another, but also as hurdles that don’t need to exist because one small change could be made here or there to iron out those kinks. I will be sure to document these in a review and file back reports to the MorphOS team.

The OS is very polished in many ways considering such small resources behind it, but it’s clear to me that this is designed by people who love what they are doing but are not necessarily designers, just good programmers. It is still not clear to me where the boundaries of heritage and Amiga tradition lie with MorphOS—I’ve never properly used Amiga OS before, only for playing some games in the 90’s. That is why I need to invest time speaking to the community and understanding the ethos that drives these people.

I could write some superficial trash that would piss a lot of people off like when I reviewed Opera 10; but for MorphOS I want to get my head inside this space and try to understand what this is all about.

Reply Score: 1

RE[3]: Comment by Kroc
by AmigaRobbo on Tue 1st Dec 2009 21:03 UTC in reply to "RE[2]: Comment by Kroc"
AmigaRobbo Member since:
2005-11-15

It’s harder for me than it seems; when you have an eye for UI, there’s many things that stick out as hurdles; and not just as the difference between being used to one system compared to another, but also as hurdles that don’t need to exist because one small change could be made here or there to iron out those kinks. I will be sure to document these in a review and file back reports to the MorphOS team.


Such as? MorphZone maybe the best place to ask any questions, I feel it might be worth competing the review, then asking the questions, so you can document, any, "of Course! it seems so logical now someone's explained it to me", and any "I thought this was stupid design before, and now I know. IT IS STUPID!"

Reply Score: 2

RE[4]: Comment by Kroc
by Kroc on Tue 1st Dec 2009 21:17 UTC in reply to "RE[3]: Comment by Kroc"
Kroc Member since:
2005-11-10

That is the plan, but I can assure you that it is still just as valid to document wrong assumptions as it is the right ones. Remember, this is the experience of someone who is good with UI who is new to the platform. The experiences I document may help MorphOS make things easier for new comers, which is always to their benefit.

Reply Score: 1

RE[5]: Comment by Kroc
by AmigaRobbo on Tue 1st Dec 2009 21:26 UTC in reply to "RE[4]: Comment by Kroc"
AmigaRobbo Member since:
2005-11-15

true, Have you had the trying to run YAM and it starts asking for something.mcc or something and you have no idea what the heck that is, or where it goes?

Reply Score: 2

RE[6]: Comment by Kroc
by Kroc on Tue 1st Dec 2009 21:40 UTC in reply to "RE[5]: Comment by Kroc"
Kroc Member since:
2005-11-10

<fwip />

Reply Score: 1

RE[7]: Comment by Kroc
by AmigaRobbo on Tue 1st Dec 2009 21:55 UTC in reply to "RE[6]: Comment by Kroc"
AmigaRobbo Member since:
2005-11-15

'Fabrication Work in Progress'?

Reply Score: 2

RE: Comment by Kroc
by frood on Tue 1st Dec 2009 17:15 UTC in reply to "Comment by Kroc"
frood Member since:
2005-07-06

I'm sure the MorphOS team would shout you a review copy? It's in their best interests surely.

Reply Score: 1

RE[2]: Comment by Kroc
by Kroc on Tue 1st Dec 2009 20:56 UTC in reply to "RE: Comment by Kroc"
Kroc Member since:
2005-11-10

I did contact them, but they did not follow through with my request. Since then I’ve left it for the moment as I’ve been so busy, but will have to chase them again. If I’m going to do this _properly_, then it’s vitally important that I can run the OS full time. If anybody from the MorphOS team is reading, please get in touch with me.

Reply Score: 1

RE[3]: Comment by Kroc
by frood on Wed 2nd Dec 2009 14:59 UTC in reply to "RE[2]: Comment by Kroc"
frood Member since:
2005-07-06

I'm gonna get it in the new year anyway I should think. If you get no joy from them at all by then, let me know and you can borrow my license. EULA permitting of course!

Reply Score: 1

RE[4]: Comment by Kroc
by -ujb- on Wed 2nd Dec 2009 18:39 UTC in reply to "RE[3]: Comment by Kroc"
-ujb- Member since:
2005-10-21

If you get no joy from them at all by then, let me know and you can borrow my license.


You cannot borrow a license. But not because some EULA forbids, but because the license is in a key file tightly bound to the actual maschine (MAC address identifier). Thus, rather difficult to borrow the license...

Reply Score: 1

RE[5]: Comment by Kroc
by frood on Wed 2nd Dec 2009 19:14 UTC in reply to "RE[4]: Comment by Kroc"
frood Member since:
2005-07-06

MophOS isn't into the "treat it like a book" concept then i take it?

Reply Score: 1

Very nice, MorphOS
by xorxos77 on Wed 2nd Dec 2009 01:57 UTC
xorxos77
Member since:
2009-08-12

It is such a slick, cool, operating system!

Reply Score: 1

No Reason to Be Annoyed
by Android Fan on Thu 3rd Dec 2009 14:45 UTC
Android Fan
Member since:
2005-08-20

"Absolutely. In fact, it's a bit annoying that they're finally doing something that a lot of enthusiasts were suggesting five years ago."

Rhyder, two points. Firstly, the business plan originally depended on bundling the OS w. the Pegasos hardware (Pegasos) and though MorphOS was never bundled with Efika (unless by third parties) the programming team received some funding from the Efika producer. The switch to an online pay-for-registration business model (which is a model that, unlike the previous, can function with used hardware such as PPC Macs) occurred less than two years ago.

Secondly, it's one thing for an enthusiast to suggest an OS port ("just port it to PPC Mac," "just port it to X86," "just port it to PS3") and it's another entirely for programmers to actually accomplish such a task.

Thus, there is no legitimate reason IMO to be annoyed that it seems to have taken so long to come up with the port that any number of enthusiasts may have suggested from their living rooms five or however many years ago. It's simply not that easy for such a port to happen.

Reply Score: 1

At long last!
by Syphadias on Sat 5th Dec 2009 07:39 UTC
Syphadias
Member since:
2008-02-16

I used to dream about maybe one day having a port of Workbench 3.x ported to 68k Apple Mac hardware as a potential means to keep the platform alive.

Now here we are, quite some time when I used to dream of such things, and that dream is coming true, and has already on certain Mac mini's!

I really love what the MorphOS team are doing. I wonder why it took them so long to decide upon the obvious, but better late than never.

Of course people are going to say,"well MorphOS, or Amiga for that matter is never going to find a market in the main stream", and that may be so. After all, everything that made Amiga unique, has been duplicated and expanded upon a million fold. Amiga is no longer the goto place when doing Multimedia production. Amiga is no longer the top dog for video games, multi-tasking has become common place, ease of use, etc.

The thing though that can not be duplicated is it's own particular interface, extreme ease of use, and general way of going about it's tasks. All the while being a very light weight operating system that is really only limited by the amount, quality, and variety of software available for it.

Like Amiga in the early days, things are done for the love of it again. That's the spirit of Amiga, it's that key element that can not be emulated! There is no other community on the planet like the Amiga community, except perhaps the BeOS community, but even that does not have the reputation Amiga has. Granted BeOS/Haiku has become my personal favorite, but nothing can make me stop using Amiga, and I only wish I had amongst my various hobbies, to devote learning to code for these two O.S., so that I could share my own personal vision of their underground/hobbyist future, and perhaps commercial, as all good things begin in the underground.

Reply Score: 1