Linked by Thom Holwerda on Fri 18th Dec 2009 13:35 UTC
PDAs, Cellphones, Wireless We have lots of Palm new for you today, since the company released its quarterly results yesterday. The company also opened up public beta access to Ares, its browser-based integrated development environment for the webOS. Which to me, as a non-developer, looks totally awesome. webOS 1.3.5 is also on its way, which will bring battery life and performance improvements, among other things.
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I feel Palm is losing momentum
by postdiction on Fri 18th Dec 2009 15:52 UTC
Member since:

Mainly because of 2 reasons

1) Still not a lot of native apps

2) Android has really gotten its act together to create good software and hardware making it a clear cut competitor in the smart phone market.

Palm still has a very innovative UI and the ability to run multiple apps. If they don't build around their platform's strengths, they will lose any chance of making a comeback.

Reply Score: 1

Bold move
by -oblio- on Fri 18th Dec 2009 16:05 UTC
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Very bold move, all this web interface on mobiles - mobile development in a browser.

I hope they succeeded, they seem nicer than your average bear (Apple, Google, Microsoft).

Reply Score: 1

by whartung on Fri 18th Dec 2009 16:39 UTC
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You can use Dashcode to do this for the iPhone today.

With it you can make standalone, offline, iPhone web apps, that can be easily installed on the iPhone, "for free" (you need a mac, naturally), no sign up, no authorization, etc.

The problem remains, however, beyond the API aspects (on the iPhone, you don't have total access to the phones feature set) of simply performance.

Even with the promise of Mozilla's mobile browser, and their tauting of improved JS performance, Apples JS is no slouch. FF, Google, and Apple are all pretty competitive in terms of performance.

But they still lack a bit of "snap" on the slower mobile machines. JS is simply still too heavy.

Dashcode is no replacement for XCode and Obj-C, but it's not bad either. It's nice to have the option on the iPhone for both kinds of apps.

I think the Pre will do better when they include a native option.

Reply Score: 2

RE: Dashcode
by Thom_Holwerda on Fri 18th Dec 2009 17:00 UTC in reply to "Dashcode"
Thom_Holwerda Member since:

I think the Pre will do better when they include a native option.


The webOS HAS native applications. It is just that its native applications are written using web languages. You have access to ALL the hardware, except the 3D chip - for which support should come once WebGL is integrated into Mojo.

What is so hard to understand about this?

Reply Score: 1

RE[2]: Dashcode
by whartung on Fri 18th Dec 2009 17:15 UTC in reply to "RE: Dashcode"
whartung Member since:

What is so hard to understand about this?


It will ALWAYS be SLOW. JS is SLOW, and it's exacerbated on SLOW hardware.

They've made great strides in JS performance, but without language changes it will suffer in performance to other languages, and native languages will simply perform better.

Not all apps require the ultimate in performance, I'm a big fan of JS for development in many domains.

But, many of the interesting apps on the iPhone are more than just web front ends to data. Like the augmented reality applications, the spoken language translators, route mapping, not to mention games, etc. Those actually requre the CPU to heat up to get the job done, and JS simply isn't appropriate for that at this time, especially on mobile hardware.

Reply Score: 7

RE[2]: Dashcode
by Invincible Cow on Fri 18th Dec 2009 17:26 UTC in reply to "RE: Dashcode"
Invincible Cow Member since:

> The webOS HAS native applications. It is just that its native applications are written using web languages.
Native means the code is compiled to machine code for the processor of the device, and runs directly on the processor without some sort of emulation, intepreting or "just-in-time compilation" (which is actually worse than normal interpreting when it comes to response times).

> You have access to ALL the hardware
The programs don't have direct access to the processor. Which is like, "sort of important" (read: absolutely required) for the designation "native". And also essential for performance.

Edited 2009-12-18 17:27 UTC

Reply Score: 2

RE[3]: Dashcode
by Thom_Holwerda on Fri 18th Dec 2009 17:32 UTC in reply to "RE[2]: Dashcode"
Thom_Holwerda Member since:

The problem is that the definition of "native" is troublesome. A lot of people continue to spread the nonsense that applications on the webOS are the same as the web apps Apple used to claim were the shit before they came with their native SDK.

Of course you are right that they are not "native-native" (if you know what I mean), but there's no proper word for the type of applications on the webOS, but they are A LOT closer to "native-native" than to web apps.

Edited 2009-12-18 17:33 UTC

Reply Score: 1

RE[4]: Dashcode
by phoenix on Fri 18th Dec 2009 18:19 UTC in reply to "RE[3]: Dashcode"
phoenix Member since:

"Native app" is the correct term, as the application is running natively on the device, and not in a web browser (which would be a "web app").

However, these "native apps" are not "compiled apps", in that they are not compiled into machine code and run on the CPU directly.

But, try getting the "general public" to see the difference between "native app" and "compiled app". ;)

Reply Score: 4

RE[5]: Dashcode
by drstorm on Sat 19th Dec 2009 11:06 UTC in reply to "RE[4]: Dashcode"
drstorm Member since:

For me, the only native application to the OS is an application written in the same manner as the built-in ones.

If Palm wrote everything but the kernel and "browser" using the same SDK that is offered to the developers, then yes, those web apps are native on WebOS. Otherwise, they are not, no matter how hard people try to convince you.

Also, I realize the term "native" is a bit troublesome. Web apps might be native to the WebOS (if the above is true), but they are not native to the hardware. For me, a real native application is an app that is native to both, the software and hardware, so, no, I would not call .NET applications native on Windows, for example.

Reply Score: 2

RE: Dashcode
by itomato on Fri 18th Dec 2009 18:21 UTC in reply to "Dashcode"
itomato Member since:

Kindly provide a link to the browser-based IDE for Dashcode.

The day you can write iPhone apps in a browser is the day Apple decides that 'the rest of us' would write apps for their products.

Now that 'rest of us' acknowledgement belongs to Palm.

Reply Score: 1

by tchristney on Fri 18th Dec 2009 17:33 UTC
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I'll have to try it out to make an informed decision, but Ares looks like a good idea. Only thing is, I am still living in the cell phone dark ages so I have no itches to scratch at the moment. I hope there is the ability to use Ares off line though. There are cases where you don't have web access and still want to be productive.

One thing I don't understand though, is why people seem to think that JS == easy and C/C++/Obj-C == hard. For me, and I suspect for many other developers, the opposite is true.

Reply Score: 1

RE: Cool...
by moondevil on Sun 20th Dec 2009 17:06 UTC in reply to "Cool..."
moondevil Member since:

Easy, C/C++/Obj-C == insecure code.

Reply Score: 0

Enough with the carrier exclusivity deals
by phoenix on Fri 18th Dec 2009 18:13 UTC
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Just release a damned GSM version already!!

All the big carriers in Canada now use some form of GSM ... and yet you can't get a GSM Pre/Pixi anywhere in Canada. You're still forced to use Bell's not-quite-3G CDMA network.

Want better quarterly results? Then let people buy the device already.

Reply Score: 2