Linked by Thom Holwerda on Thu 28th Jan 2010 18:09 UTC
Apple Yes, yes, I apologise. After Kroc's story earlier today, and together with this one, we now have three stories in a row on the Ipad iPad (sorry, I can't ban camel case from OSNews just yet). So, what are we going to do? Predictions? Criticism? More details? No - I want to explain what I think the differences are between the introduction of the iPod and the iPhone, and that of the iPad.
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Activation Energy
by kaelodest on Thu 28th Jan 2010 18:25 UTC
kaelodest
Member since:
2006-02-12

It seems that we are at an impasse here, much like the ubiquitous Apple ][ from BITD. It is not so much what it does. The real vibrant question is what will I be able to do with it in the future. We went from Zork to Lode Runner to Quake in a very short cultural time. And I believe that this device is not evolutionary but signs of a culture turning the corner. It is evolutionary because I can teach my son cocoa and build a lunar lander in a month and I am not cruel enough to teach him windows programming.
I am sure that I can do something real nice in AJAX or Cappachino. But the real key question is activation energy. Like how in an Atari 800/ Commodore 64 you could (often had to) sit down in an afternoon and write a program and see what a computer was really about. I like the platform I do not think I will buy the first generation. But I think that the fun will be in making an app for it . How to program not for my boss but for my kids. and for fun

Reply Score: 2

I Agree
by codewrangler on Thu 28th Jan 2010 18:27 UTC
codewrangler
Member since:
2010-01-28

I think you may be right. I will be waiting for version 2.0, at least.

What I was really hoping for was something more MacBook than iPhone, but with Cocoa Touch elements. For me, it does not replace my iPhone or MacBook Pro, so it's not an 'in between' product. It is yet another product I would need to carry around.

However, if you have been looking at picking up a Kindle or a Nook, but wanted a more functional device, I would say go get an iPad. The book reader looks great and it uses ePub, which I think B&N uses for their books, so there is the possibility that you may be able to use these books with iBooks. At the very least, you will be able to use the B&N eReader on the iPad.

Cool technology, but it would have been more enticing with at least a user facing camera.

Edited 2010-01-28 18:28 UTC

Reply Score: 1

RE: I Agree
by Bill Shooter of Bul on Thu 28th Jan 2010 18:48 UTC in reply to "I Agree"
Bill Shooter of Bul Member since:
2006-07-14

I really don't understand why anyone would consider this a e book reader anymore than any other netbook/notebook other than the form factor. It still has a backlit lcd display, which sucks compared to e-ink.

Reply Score: 6

RE[2]: I Agree
by kristoph on Thu 28th Jan 2010 18:59 UTC in reply to "RE: I Agree"
kristoph Member since:
2006-01-01

The question of e-ink versus a luminous display for reading is really a personal one.

I've found, personally, that I prefer reading on an luminous display. I work on a computer all day everyday, my eyes are used to it. e-ink, in contrast, seems unnatural and the page refresh is really jarring to the flow of the book.

I have been reading Kindle stuff on my iPhone but the size is not ideal so this is a great solution.

Reply Score: 1

RE[3]: I Agree
by Bill Shooter of Bul on Thu 28th Jan 2010 19:28 UTC in reply to "RE[2]: I Agree"
Bill Shooter of Bul Member since:
2006-07-14

Have you used an e-ink device? For me its night or day. I respect your opinion, but I must say it sounds very wrong to me.

Its like when I meet someone who insists that COBOL is the easier to use than any other language. Its clear that they are familiar with COBOL, but I suspect they haven't tried to learn anything else and are simply protecting their ignorance by shrouding it in a prideful opinion.

Reply Score: 5

RE[4]: I Agree
by kittynipples on Thu 28th Jan 2010 20:19 UTC in reply to "RE[3]: I Agree"
kittynipples Member since:
2006-08-02

Wow, the guy says that he prefers a backlit screen, and then you go on about how wrong his opinion is and then make some assinine comparison to a COBOL programmer who only sticks with it out of ignorance.

Great job at being a tool.

Reply Score: 1

RE[5]: I Agree
by Bill Shooter of Bul on Fri 29th Jan 2010 04:59 UTC in reply to "RE[4]: I Agree"
Bill Shooter of Bul Member since:
2006-07-14

I think you missed the point entirely. I was attempting to explain how wrong his opinion seemed to me, rather than making any objective value on it. Like say you love peanut butter, but its my least favourite food in the world. You might not understand just how much I freaking hate peanut butter so I might use an analogy relating his like towards something most people would agree was very very wrong. Not making an objective statement about peanut butter, just demonstrating the vast gulf in opinions.

If you don't like that analogy explaining my previous analogy, I'm sure I can come up with an analogy that will *definitely* explain this analogy to you.

Reply Score: 3

RE[5]: I Agree
by google_ninja on Fri 29th Jan 2010 13:28 UTC in reply to "RE[4]: I Agree"
google_ninja Member since:
2006-02-05

Because one causes more physical strain then the other, and the page refresh is only jarring for the first day or so.

Reply Score: 2

RE[6]: I Agree
by JAlexoid on Sun 31st Jan 2010 01:52 UTC in reply to "RE[5]: I Agree"
JAlexoid Member since:
2009-05-19

Because one causes more physical strain then the other, and the page refresh is only jarring for the first day or so.


To be more accurate: Backlit LCD have a medically proven track record of causing real physical strain on the eyes. Ask any ophthalmologist.

Reply Score: 2

RE: I Agree
by kragil on Thu 28th Jan 2010 18:53 UTC in reply to "I Agree"
kragil Member since:
2006-01-04

Read two hours on e-ink and two hours on backlid LCD and you take the e-ink for reading every time.

Especially before going to sleep the backlight messes with your head and is really tiresome.

That is why I wait for a consumer device with a Pixel Qi screen.

Reply Score: 4

RE[2]: I Agree
by gfx1 on Thu 28th Jan 2010 19:36 UTC in reply to "RE: I Agree"
gfx1 Member since:
2006-01-20

I did read books from a backlit cliƩ but I had to turn down the backlight very low at night. It had a software update once and since time that I couldn't adjust it to almost dark anymore which was annoying.
I find the iPad interessting because of the larger display, I've seen iPhones and the text on it is very, very tiny.

Reply Score: 1

The iPod Touch
by Evan on Thu 28th Jan 2010 18:47 UTC
Evan
Member since:
2006-01-18

After owning an iPod Touch, I very much wanted a larger 3G capable touch that added the ability to take notes in class.

I honestly think the iPad is going in the right direction, but it's limited storage and lack of pen-based input kind've kills it's usefulness.

The iPad is extremely close to allowing me to take 1 device (and no books) to classes, if only a pen-based input option were available, I would actually dump my macbook pro at home.

~Evan

Reply Score: 2

RE: The iPod Touch
by macUser on Thu 28th Jan 2010 19:35 UTC in reply to "The iPod Touch"
macUser Member since:
2006-12-15

if only a pen-based input option were available, I would actually dump my macbook pro at home.


~Evan

There are pens available for the Touch and iPhone... I believe there is even an app that takes down your handwriting as is...

You completely lose multi-touch though.

Reply Score: 2

RE[2]: The iPod Touch
by Evan on Thu 28th Jan 2010 19:54 UTC in reply to "RE: The iPod Touch"
Evan Member since:
2006-01-18

Hmm, that may make things interesting. Will have to give it a try at some point.

This new form-factor may allow for some interesting science/math note-taking apps.

~Evan

Reply Score: 1

RE[3]: The iPod Touch
by macUser on Thu 28th Jan 2010 20:07 UTC in reply to "RE[2]: The iPod Touch"
macUser Member since:
2006-12-15

Hmm, that may make things interesting. Will have to give it a try at some point.

This new form-factor may allow for some interesting science/math note-taking apps.

~Evan


May or may not be what you need: http://www.softwaregarden.com/products/notetaker/

Reply Score: 2

Huge Potential if it was opened up.
by BigDaddy on Thu 28th Jan 2010 18:48 UTC
BigDaddy
Member since:
2006-08-10

The biggest area that could benefit from the pad computing would be schools. If you could carry all your text books on a pad, it would be awesome. You could make notes in it without ruining the book.

The bad thing is this though, even though the books should come down in price due to no materials being necessary, they would artificially keep the prices high. There would be no used text book markets so they would see it as a cash cow. Not good.

One parting shot to make. To me it is basically a iPhone mixed with a Kindle. Using nothing but your fingers to manipulate the thing. They should have named it iPhondle. ;)

Reply Score: 2

robojerk Member since:
2006-01-10

Any other E-Reader (Kindle, Nook, etc) would be better options than the iPad.

Edit:
Kids in high school, middle school shouldn't have a device that has a facebook app on it IMO. I know the Kindle is getting apps and the Nook being Android based will offer apps but I see it as just another distraction rather than a savior.

Edited 2010-01-28 20:11 UTC

Reply Score: 4

JAlexoid Member since:
2009-05-19

The biggest area that could benefit from the pad computing would be schools. If you could carry all your text books on a pad, it would be awesome. You could make notes in it without ruining the book.


Any electronic paper device would be better, since of the battery life.

Reply Score: 1

Because they have them in Star Trek
by joshv on Thu 28th Jan 2010 19:07 UTC
joshv
Member since:
2006-03-18

I really think it's all about Star Trek. If Wesley Crusher had an iPad-like device - I want one.

Reply Score: 6

I don't really see this is a tablet
by WorknMan on Thu 28th Jan 2010 19:20 UTC
WorknMan
Member since:
2005-11-13

I don't really see this as a tablet, since you can't actually write on it. I consider this to be like a next-gen PDA. An iPhone-like device with a screen that's actually big enough to be usable. Unlike a phone with a tiny screen, I might actually want to browse the web on this thing!

Since I see this as more of a PDA and not a laptop/netbook, I'm not bothered much by the fact that that it doesn't run OSX and can't multitask. Most of the time, if I were using this thing on a long car ride (or whatever), it's not likely I would be doing multiple things at once anyway.

Having said that, I don't travel a lot, so wouldn't have much of a use for it (since I almost always have a desktop nearby), but this might end up being my parents' next laptop, since they were in the market for one, and wouldn't do much more on one than browse the web, read ebooks, etc.

One other thing to keep in mind is, if it goes down like the iPhone, there may be a price drop not too long after it is released.

Edited 2010-01-28 19:22 UTC

Reply Score: 2

First take?
by macUser on Thu 28th Jan 2010 19:33 UTC
macUser
Member since:
2006-12-15

My first response as I was watching it announced on the live blogs was one of being underwhelmed. As the day wore on, my skepticism of the product waned as I began looking at my own usage... It suddenly hit me, ever since I got my iPhone, I leave my laptop at home 98% of the time.

I know my geek cred flounders (if I have any at all) when I say that I try not to work when I'm not in the office. I don't want to be parked in front of a computer all day. I don't want a laptop taking up half my coffee table either. I don't want to be carrying a laptop with me, period unless I need to do work.

What do I want? I want to keep up on email in case I need to go back to work. I want to check out the news. I want check out movies or parks to take my children to. I want to play an occasional game. My kids want to play occasional games. I don't want to keep a laptop or a netbook around for that. I don't want to turn my tower on for that. Or go back to my home office for that.

My 3 year old daughter has mastered my iPhone... I can only imagine what sort of multi-touch wizardry education developers will be able to come up with on this thing. There are plenty of other useful apps... I don't want to be in front of a laptop or my desktop to use.

The more I thought about what I want and what I don't want, the iPad made more and more sense. Here is a device that essentially does everything I need, that my entire family can use. It just makes sense to me.

I totally understand people listing off what it doesn't have but is that a case of not seeing the forest through the trees? It isn't a device for everyone, that is to be sure, but are we to expect it would be?

I can't say that I will buy one, but it looks pretty appealing to me. I'll reserve judgement until I hold one in my hands though.

Reply Score: 7

RE: First take?
by sultanqasim on Thu 28th Jan 2010 21:53 UTC in reply to "First take?"
sultanqasim Member since:
2006-10-28

Same with me. At first, I was underwhelmed, thinking what's this fancy looking giant iPod touch supposed to do. Then I realized that 99% of my computer time goes in surfing the web, listening to music, creating documents, or fooling around (with games or something like that). That's just what the iPad does, and it does it better than an iPod and a computer.

I played with iPod and iPhones at the Apple store today and realized how much fun touch screens are, and how intuitive and nice the iPhone OS UI is. I was only annoyed that I can't read a page without scrolling around sideways and vertically. The big screen solves that problem.

I also want to be able to do real work at places like school without having to lug around my laptop, and this does that well too with iWork and a bigger screen for usable typing (I'm a slow typist anyways). One last thing: I'd like to do some python programming on such a device but I don't like the hassles and instability that I've seen from jail-broken iPods.

Anyways, other than for programming, the iPad is actually a useful device that is better than a laptop for the bulk of what I do. I'm always finding stuff on the net that I want to show to others around me, but its a bit annoying folding up and carrying a laptop just to show something for a few seconds. It's pretty much a low end ultraportable Mac for a good price (considering that its Apple). Yes, it doesn't have the features of a netbook with windows, but it does the stuff that I normally do so much better than a netbook (bigger better screen, no ultra tiny trackpad, much thinner and lighter, easier to show stuff to others, better battery life, much "cooler" etc).

P.S. Apple - adding a USB port to connect memory sticks to open and save files from iWork would be appreciated. Wireless printing would also be nice.

Reply Score: 2

RE[2]: First take?
by JAlexoid on Sun 31st Jan 2010 02:01 UTC in reply to "RE: First take?"
JAlexoid Member since:
2009-05-19

On the document creation front, iPad fails in one really major way: virtual keyboard.
Most people don't look at the keyboard when they type and expect the little "nipples" on J and F keys for reference when the keys are not visible. With iPad there is no physical feedback and you are still covering too much of it.

It was OK with an iPhone, only because you don't type as much.

Reply Score: 1

Not Quite
by CaptainN- on Thu 28th Jan 2010 19:39 UTC
CaptainN-
Member since:
2005-07-07

The tablet market is the exact same market as the nettop or smartbook market. These are smaller, tighter consumer products that intend to appeal to end users that are tired of maintaining their computers, because they are no good at maintaining them anyway. This is the future of home computers, with current WinTel and Mac OS X based laptops and towers becoming professional workstation class equipment (or the shrinking enthusiast class, at least for a while).

Apple even said as much in their release narrative, and they nailed it. Having used an iPhone vs a nettop, the iPhone is certainly better for sitting on the couch, and so will the iPad be.

That said, they screwed the pooch in some regards. It's not open enough (can't run my own apps?) - that's ok for the iPhone, but for a device that is intended to compete with nettops (which despite pundits' opinions, does compete with more complete laptops), it's not enough. Opening that up a bit more, could help the remaining issues - primarily the lack of Flash Player, but also the lack of an ability to add additional plugins - Java/Silverlight. I can't see gifting this to grandma to replace her computer any time soon, if she can't play pogo.com games, or farmville.

Then there's the lack multitasking - push sucks, it fails half the time, and it requires you to quit doing what you are doing to answer an IM - it's just not a good enough replacement for multitasking.

Of course all that is easy to fix, and hopefully Apple will do so, and finish off would looks like pretty sexy hardware to replace the silly nettop.

More than likely though, I'll be getting something like a Notion Ink Adam, for me and Grandma. That runs runs Android, and is likely to be cheaper, and more open - or there are 17 alternatives to choose from.

It's MS vs. Apple all over again, except it's Android/Linux instead of WIndows.

Reply Score: 3

This will sell....
by nathbeadle on Thu 28th Jan 2010 19:54 UTC
nathbeadle
Member since:
2006-08-08

There are a lot of people out there that haven't heard about the iPad yet or seen it.. but once they do, I can see this really taking with them.

Grandparents, kids, those who haven't had computers before... practically anyone who just wants to use something for the "lifestyle" factors (surfing, email, calendar/contacts, photos, and possible some office).

You're getting a device that can sit in a dock with a keyboard that is essentially a desktop.. and anytime you want to do something you just point and touch it. No viruses, automatic updating, games and other useful software. And if you need to take it to another room to show photos or use for internet.. you just pick it up.

For me, I like computers.. configuring, troubleshooting, etc. But for many, this could be a game changer

Reply Score: 5

It's too weak
by arbour42 on Thu 28th Jan 2010 20:11 UTC
arbour42
Member since:
2005-07-06

The iPad will cost, at least, $600 by the time you get it home. This is far too much for so little it offers.

For the same price, I can get a low-end dell laptop (or almost 2 netbooks) with 250gb and 4gb ram, and the ability to put ANY app on it, and multi-task, and have a FULL working environment. And solid battery life.

The iPad may sell well. But it's a frivolous product, especially as the entire West is falling into a hyper-inflationary Depression.

I was hoping to be able to use an SDK to build multi-touch apps for private use, without it being restricted to App Store development. And NO, GWT and Cappuccino and Sproutcore are not what I want to use. (I'm sick of Javascript frameworks at this point.)

Apple dropped the ball and maybe Microsoft can come up with something, especially since they have much better dev tools than Apple.

Reply Score: 3

RE: It's too weak
by arbour42 on Thu 28th Jan 2010 20:22 UTC in reply to "It's too weak"
arbour42 Member since:
2005-07-06

And I just thought of another question: when the iPad is standing on its dock, hooked to the physical keyboard, where do you connect the mouse?

I mean, if the ipad is standing upward and you are typing, how do you click on other areas of the screen. Can a mouse hook into the keyboard, and then you get the arrow on the screen?

Reply Score: 2

RE[2]: It's too weak
by Bobthearch on Fri 29th Jan 2010 01:19 UTC in reply to "RE: It's too weak"
Bobthearch Member since:
2006-01-27

I was wondering something similar, if it can connect to a real keyboard, or only the toy Apple keyboard that they're advertising as an accessory?

I'm also wondering, since they advertise the camera connectivity adapters (as extra accessories of course) and advertise the iPads suitability for pictures, if there's a single photo-editing program that will actually run on the iPad? Will it even run the Mac software that comes with various cameras?

I also find it laughable that for $499 it doesn't even come with the desktop stand. Not even a lousy protective pouch or case.

Reply Score: 2

RE: It's too weak
by google_ninja on Fri 29th Jan 2010 14:03 UTC in reply to "It's too weak"
google_ninja Member since:
2006-02-05

Search on youtube for the courier

Reply Score: 2

Jack of all trades..
by robojerk on Thu 28th Jan 2010 20:23 UTC
robojerk
Member since:
2006-01-10

Master of none...

Reply Score: 3

The real problem
by theTSF on Thu 28th Jan 2010 20:40 UTC
theTSF
Member since:
2005-09-27

It is too big to carry around like an iPhone.
It is too restrictive in terms of software and features for a laptop.

Now if it had full OS X not the iPhone OS X we may be onto something.

Reply Score: 4

RE: The real problem
by FunkyELF on Thu 28th Jan 2010 21:26 UTC in reply to "The real problem"
FunkyELF Member since:
2006-07-26

That is what everyone is thinking I'm sure.

The problem is that this thing runs on an ARM CPU. Maybe Apple has OSX (all of it) ported to ARM already, but the programs would have to be re-compiled. Right now they're only PPC and Intel right?

The other problem I think would be that if they released an ARM based full blown OSX for this thing to run, someone would ultimately get it off of there and onto ARM based netbooks.

Reply Score: 2

I'm optimistic
by Eddyspeeder on Thu 28th Jan 2010 21:47 UTC
Eddyspeeder
Member since:
2006-05-10

I was highly pessimistic about Apple's efforts at creating a tablet. Tablets have been around for many years, I've worked with a few and was appalled at the user experience of each and every one of them. Often because, as Jobs puts it (in regard to netbooks, but I think it equally so relates to many tablets): "It's clunky PC-software crammed into a smaller device."

I took the effort to watch the entire Keynote on it, and to be honest with you, it made me quite optimistic. Aside from the effect of the reality distortion field, I have the following reasons for it:

1. Pricing: starting at $500, with AT&T prepaid and $10 per iWork app.
2. Back-end: the bookstore is properly integrated, better than with most eBook readers.
3. Games: despite the Macintosh game deficiency, Electronic Arts appears excited about iPad integration.
4. User-interface: multi-touch, rethought tablet-focused design.

Admittedly, Apple is taking one of their greatest risks yet. After years of releasing products that became a big hit, they (as the article justly points out) are now entering a market that knows no successes, only failures and major disappointments.

However, at this point, Apple is the only company worldwide who can afford taking this risk. With major profits for several quarters in a row, and with their existing reputation in the mobile market, Apple seems the designated party that should make the attempt of "creating" the tablet market.

If this fails... tablets should be abandoned forever. For now, I would like to keep believing. But since I bought a MacBook Pro only half a year ago, I won't buy one. But truthfully, I do find it a charming device.

Edit: made a mistake closing a bold-tag...

Edited 2010-01-28 21:48 UTC

Reply Score: 1

RE: I'm optimistic
by umccullough on Thu 28th Jan 2010 22:52 UTC in reply to "I'm optimistic"
umccullough Member since:
2006-01-26

1. Pricing: starting at $500, with AT&T prepaid and $10 per iWork app.


You mean $630 starting price for the 3G model, and then $15/month for AT&T's capped plan, $30/month for the "unlimited"... - they throw in free Wifi hotspot usage with both plans.

Reply Score: 2

Turing's Poisoned Apple
by Laurence on Fri 29th Jan 2010 00:33 UTC
Laurence
Member since:
2007-03-26

Personally I think this device is pointless:

* it's slower than netbooks yet more expensive

* it can't run OS X apps yet netbooks and other tablet PCs can run Windows / Linux apps.

* it's screen size is smaller than other tablet PCs yet too big that it's still an inconvenience to carry around (unlike, for example, the iPhone)

* it's a backlit display so it's harsher on the eyes than eInk and has a significantly shorter battery life than other eBook readers (yet again still more expensive)

* it's not even any good for note taking as you can't use a pen like you can with Windows PDAs and tablet PCs. Which means you either have to use a touch screen keyboard (which is impractical for anything more than e-mails) or carry around an additional bit of hardware (ie a keyboard attachment)

So essentially, what Apple have created is an over-sized iPod Touch that is a bad tablet PC, a bad eBook reader, a bad netbook and (in my opinion) a bad PDA as well due to the impracticability the additional size brings.


Having seen the missed chance Microsoft had when they announced the HP tablet with a vanilla install of Windows 7, I was hoping Apple would demonstrate how lead the market. But instead Apple have over-thought and ended up releasing a polished turd.

It's as if they've tried to cover all bases with one device without understanding why those markets exist separately in the 1st place.

Reply Score: 6

RE: Turing's Poisoned Apple
by skingers6894 on Fri 29th Jan 2010 00:43 UTC in reply to "Turing's Poisoned Apple"
skingers6894 Member since:
2005-08-10

Personally I think this device is pointless:


And for a multi touch device that's got to be a problem...

Reply Score: 5

RE[2]: Turing's Poisoned Apple
by Laurence on Fri 29th Jan 2010 00:52 UTC in reply to "RE: Turing's Poisoned Apple"
Laurence Member since:
2007-03-26

"Personally I think this device is pointless:


And for a multi touch device that's got to be a problem...
"


Despite what Apple state, multi-touch doesn't make the device more usable.
It might make some specific jobs more intuitive, but if you can't use the device for your primary role (be it taking notes in lectures, reading eBooks on the train or drawing art work) then being able to use 2 fingures instead of one - or even two hands - doesn't magically fix the other short comings.
You're still going to need a stylus, hardware keyboard, etc.

Besides, it's not as if other multi-touch devices don't exist.

Edited 2010-01-29 00:54 UTC

Reply Score: 2

RE[3]: Turing's Poisoned Apple
by _txf_ on Fri 29th Jan 2010 02:04 UTC in reply to "RE[2]: Turing's Poisoned Apple"
_txf_ Member since:
2008-03-17

I'm not quite sure you got the fact that he was making a droll comment.

(pointless->no pointing) hence the problem...aww is just not funny when it has to be explained

Reply Score: 2

RE[4]: Turing's Poisoned Apple
by Laurence on Fri 29th Jan 2010 02:19 UTC in reply to "RE[3]: Turing's Poisoned Apple"
Laurence Member since:
2007-03-26

I'm not quite sure you got the fact that he was making a droll comment.

(pointless->no pointing) hence the problem...aww is just not funny when it has to be explained


Yeah, I got the joke, but not until after posting my reply *doh!*

As you can't delete posts, it was just easier to leave the comment there in case anyone wants to expand on my sentiments (be it fore or against)

Reply Score: 2

RE: Turing's Poisoned Apple
by Bobthearch on Fri 29th Jan 2010 01:23 UTC in reply to "Turing's Poisoned Apple"
Bobthearch Member since:
2006-01-27

You're right in that it does much less and costs much more than a standard netbook. Yet there may be a market for such a between-products (halfway between a fancy cell phone and a netboot).

Just have to wait and see. Some "between" or combo products have failed, while others have been amazingly successful.

Reply Score: 2

RE[2]: Turing's Poisoned Apple
by Laurence on Fri 29th Jan 2010 01:46 UTC in reply to "RE: Turing's Poisoned Apple"
Laurence Member since:
2007-03-26

You're right in that it does much less and costs much more than a standard netbook. Yet there may be a market for such a between-products (halfway between a fancy cell phone and a netboot).

Just have to wait and see. Some "between" or combo products have failed, while others have been amazingly successful.


The ones that have been successful were because there was a gap in the market.

This device isn't plugging a gap in the market though. The individual markets already exist. It's trying to invent a new product category by merging several existing markets into one device.

While normally I'm all for consolidating hardware into one gadget - I also don't want to lose usability too. And this device feels like a long list of compromises in order to own one flashier gadget.

And that's the crux of the matter.
The iPhone and iPod weren't a compromise. Granted, for a few years the iPhone lacked many features most other phones long had, like copy and paste and MMS. But the iPhone also did much much more.

Reply Score: 2

RE: Turing's Poisoned Apple
by sultanqasim on Fri 29th Jan 2010 01:41 UTC in reply to "Turing's Poisoned Apple"
sultanqasim Member since:
2006-10-28

- A Dual Core 1 GHz ARM is about 2x faster than a 1.66 GHz atom

- It can't run OSX apps, but those aren't really meant to work well on netbooks either (netbooks have even lower res screen and are much slower). It is less capable, but netbooks don't really run "real" apps like photoshop or visual studio or heavy games well. The iPad can run apps for most things most people do better than any ($300-$1200) netbook (i.e. reading websites, with easy zoom and changing of orientation for the small screen, or going though tons of photos or emails with a multi touch screen instead of an unusable mini trackpad)

- It doesn't fit in your pocket, but its small enough to hold without feeling that you're lugging a laptop in your palm

- The device is a portable computer/media device, with a eBook feature. Would you want to watch videos or look at photos on a kindle screen?

- There are 'pens' for multitouch screens available if you like to write by hand, and handwriting apps will appear soon. Good touch screen keyboards are not bad as they may seem. The keys in the iPad are reasonable size (same size as netbook keyboards) and you can use the keyboard attachment if you want a full size keyboard. You will need an attachment if you want a full size keyboard on a netbook too.

Do Kindles excite you enough to make you even think about them? Over $250 for a single purpose book reader when even an iPod that costs less can do much more? The iPad isn't perfect but it's the most desirable tablet ever made so far.

Reply Score: 3

RE[2]: Turing's Poisoned Apple
by Laurence on Fri 29th Jan 2010 02:16 UTC in reply to "RE: Turing's Poisoned Apple"
Laurence Member since:
2007-03-26


- It can't run OSX apps, but those aren't really meant to work well on netbooks either


What about other tablet/slate PCs though?
As this device is competing with them too.



(netbooks have even lower res screen and are much slower).

I think you've been looking at the bottem end of the market too much.
There's plenty of devices out there that can easily output 1024x768 and has the same screen size.

If you venture out of the "netbook" classification a moment but continue to look at simular devices then you'd see there's even more to choose from with devices as powerful as laptops but at the same dimensions (or marginally bigger) as netbooks.


It is less capable, but netbooks don't really run "real" apps like photoshop or visual studio or heavy games well.

Tablet and Slate PCs do though.
And there is a whole golf of applications between photoshop and whatever social networking frontends are popular on the iPhone.

One of my closest mates does ALL of his web development on his netbook.

My missus uses hers to write up lesson plans for the classes she teaches (if she tried to do that on a touch screen she'd quickly throw the device out of the window!)


The iPad can run apps for most things most people do better than any ($300-$1200) netbook (i.e. reading websites, with easy zoom and changing of orientation for the small screen, or going though tons of photos or emails with a multi touch screen instead of an unusable mini trackpad)

again, at a much higher price and again, your vastly under estimating what many people DO do on their netbooks.


- It doesn't fit in your pocket, but its small enough to hold without feeling that you're lugging a laptop in your palm

So where are you going to put it when you're not holding it?
In a bag? Oh well, you may as well have taken a proper fully functional (albeit compact) PC then.


- The device is a portable computer/media device, with a eBook feature.

You can read eBooks on netbooks and tablets/slates if you wanted to.
Most people don't though because backlit screens are a PITA compared to eInk or real printed media.


Good touch screen keyboards are not bad as they may seem.


touch screen keyboards are TERRIBLE. They're not even a close approximation to a hardware keyboard.
No matter how big you make the graphics, it's still not tactile. And that will always be their fundamental downfall.
Software keyboards are also a good way to induce RSI or other typing injuries as there's no cushion for your finger tips

The keys in the iPad are reasonable size (same size as netbook keyboards)

The sole reason I didn't buy an iPhone was because I just couldn't get to grips with it's keyboard.

I don't look at the keyboard as I type normally, so why should I have to on my mobile devices just because Apple have an inherent disliking of buttons?

and you can use the keyboard attachment if you want a full size keyboard.

Extra stuff to carry around. I've already addressed this point and why it's impractical.

You will need an attachment if you want a full size keyboard on a netbook too.

It's not the size that matters - it's the fact that it's tactile.
You can feel your way around the keys and instantly know when you've missed a button or can feel where your hands are on the keys (as in which letter) without having to look down every 5 seconds.

Do Kindles excite you enough to make you even think about them?

I don't read much - so personally no. But I'm not Kindles target audience either.

Over $250 for a single purpose book reader when even an iPod that costs less can do much more?

You're forgetting about the Android eBook readers ;)

The iPad isn't perfect but it's the most desirable tablet ever made so far.

Desirable if you take form over function. Personally I don't. Personally I was hoping for something special but this isn't it.

Personally, I think the tablet market is still wide open.

Reply Score: 2

RE[3]: Turing's Poisoned Apple
by sultanqasim on Fri 29th Jan 2010 05:07 UTC in reply to "RE[2]: Turing's Poisoned Apple"
sultanqasim Member since:
2006-10-28

Then the iPad's not for you. Just because it doesn't do what you want doesn't mean its a bad device. Name a single hand holdable tablet with a Pixel Qi touchscreen and tactile keyboard with decent battery life, viewing angle, speed, that runs windows, and costs under $1000. If one exists, please tell me about it.

Reply Score: 2

RE[4]: Turing's Poisoned Apple
by Laurence on Fri 29th Jan 2010 10:35 UTC in reply to "RE[3]: Turing's Poisoned Apple"
Laurence Member since:
2007-03-26

Then the iPad's not for you. Just because it doesn't do what you want doesn't mean its a bad device.


I'm saying I can't see how it's useable for almost anyone.

Sure, there will be a few people that will like, even love, this device.
But is there enough people to make this product profitable?

So I'm stating that despite all the hype, ultimatly it doesn't solve a problem enough people have to make this device worth while.

Reply Score: 2

RE[2]: Turing's Poisoned Apple
by _txf_ on Fri 29th Jan 2010 02:22 UTC in reply to "RE: Turing's Poisoned Apple"
_txf_ Member since:
2008-03-17

-That keyboard definitely sucks. It is absolute insanity to expect essays or even a medium sized email to be typed up on this thing. It isn't about the size but about the more direct feedback you get from pressing keys and not to mention the shock absorption that comes from pressing buttons.

-There are no apps and no methods to deal with direct input from a pen (specifically designed for it or no).
So some enterprising developer comes along and says yup I have a pen based handwriting solution but i need to sell the pen and install drivers....wait not gonna happen because apple will probably deny it in the app store, let alone trying to install it by other means.

Managing documents is a no go as this device needs to b-e synced (no file manager here).

-It is too expensive to be used in education, which requires much more flexibility in a device...for starters the ability to install educational software.

-What the device does do well is play and view APPLE'S MEDIA because I can't see apple allowing any old format to work with this thing.
For audio it isn't that big a deal due to the ubiquity of mp3, ease and speed of transcoding etc. But for video it is plain silly as video takes too long to transcode and the market is too fractured under competing implementations e.g. hulu,itunes netflix and not to mention divx etc.

Reply Score: 2

RE[3]: Turing's Poisoned Apple
by sultanqasim on Fri 29th Jan 2010 05:25 UTC in reply to "RE[2]: Turing's Poisoned Apple"
sultanqasim Member since:
2006-10-28

I agree that a tactile keyboard is ergonomically better than a touchscreen, but use a larger touchscreen for a day and you'll find its not half as bad as you felt it was at first. I could barely type a word when I first tried an iPhone but within 15 minutes, I was able to do 15 wpm with my thumb on that tiny keyboard. I'm certain a larger one would be much easier.

Format support for media is quite wide, and transcoding doesn't take that long on a modern computer. It's absurd to suggest that it doesn't support non-apple media.

It does support any software in the app store, including educational apps.

No drivers are needed for the multi touch styluses, and there are already handwriting recognition apps in the app store (e.g. WritePad).

One area I where strongly agree with you is the need for a File Manager. If you plan on making many documents, it'll be much better to have a centralized file manager rather than having a unique list of documents for each app. Support for wireless file transfer will be good to. For now, Olive Toast's Files will have to do, but a proper integrated file manager would be much preferred [provided that it's not crippled in some way].

Reply Score: 2

RE[4]: Turing's Poisoned Apple
by _txf_ on Fri 29th Jan 2010 10:18 UTC in reply to "RE[3]: Turing's Poisoned Apple"
_txf_ Member since:
2008-03-17

It must be just me, but I hate touchscreen keyboards no matter the size. Sure, after a while I do speed up, but it is nowhere near as pleasant and I make far more errors on touchscreen keyboards than regular physical keyboards.

Does it support wmv,divx or h.264 containers other than QT? Doubtful. Could I install an app that does support these formats? Doubtful.

When I say educational software I mean stuff institutions buy in bulk, usually with only windows versions. Require installations other than through the app store.

Reply Score: 2

Well no
by kvarbanov on Fri 29th Jan 2010 05:40 UTC
kvarbanov
Member since:
2008-06-16

While I'm not a general Apple hater, this time they blow the thing up. I was expecting, after all that media noise and speculations, a revolutionary device, that will once again, like iPhone, turn the market upside up and down few times and shake it even more ? Well, that didn't happen. For my personal usage, my current lifestyle, iPad can only serve as a photo frame ;) )) This doesn't mean some people won't buy it. But the price, oh the price - in US it's between 500 and 800$, as far as I can see. If I was to purchase it, I wouldn't even look at the no 3G version, so that leads me to the highest spec, with the optimum storage (though quite insufficient for me, HD video is around for some time ...). Here, in Europe, the announced prices are in euros, as far as I understand - the same as in US, but euros. This would mean that I will be buying a photo frame for 800E, and I can move it around while enjoying inet .... well, no, thanks, I'll skip it.

Reply Score: 1

Perfect for the perfect consumer
by avih on Fri 29th Jan 2010 08:04 UTC
avih
Member since:
2006-03-16

Except for the majority of content-creation applications (writing documents, development, textual configurations, etc), one doesn't need a keyboard and can do with an on-screen one when the occasional need arise (twit, anyone?).

Although there are many keyboard-centric applications that are used daily (most notably probably - word processors), there is a far greater number of applications that don't, and more importantly, enough people that never create substantial amounts of content at their leisure hours.

This device is perfect for presentations, casual input and content consumption activities. Be it video, music, books, occasional gaming, web, etc. None of those requires more than minimal keyboard input. More involving games might, but then again, Apple isn't competing with game consoles. Yet. Most would also benefit from portability.

So there you have it. The iPad is not for the creatives. It's for pure consumption. And hey, Look! you've got all the stores you'll ever need to spend your money at right at your fingertips!! Yay!

It's the perfect companion for a workstation (portable or desktop one). You've got a work computer where you can create content, and then there's the iPad for the rest of the day where you consume and buy things.

It kinda makes perfect sense. Pure separation between creativity and consumption.

And since most people never create anything (or know to to manage their computers), it's the perfect device for most people. So sad indeed.

I'm not an Apple user. Far from it actually. The one (and almost only) thing I hate the most is their lock-ins for the various content types. For me, this one issue overshadows any other advantage their products might have.

But if they didn't have those lock-ins, I'd probably have one, use it extensively whenever I'm not developing, never tweak anything (possibly except for custom applications I'll install, which are probably available on the Apple store too), and be happy.

See? Ideology sucks.

Reply Score: 1

_xmv
Member since:
2008-12-09

6 years ago i purchased an arguyably "state of the art" laptop, the CF-R3 from panasonic. let's list specs.

- 10 inches
- 11H battery life in regular use *real life verified*
- 900gr
- real complete keyboard
- 120G hard disk
- 2G ram
- 1.1Ghz pentium-m ULV
- 815GM graphics
- 2xUSB, VGA (1600x1200), 56K modem, 100mbit RJ45, sd card, micro sd card, pccard readers
- very resistant
- runs anything (linux, macosx, windows, you name it)

it sells today for like $200 used.

now there's the ipad:

- can't fold the screen so its going to be fragile in your bag as you travel, no matter what. (especially plane)
- it has a capacity display
- it has a slower cpu
- it has less disk space (yes, its SSD vs regular HDD, but i have yet to find an issue with my HDD and i travel much)
- it has better 3D graphics
- it is completely closed (you run phone apps and thats *it*)
- it cost a lot more
- it weights a little less
- it can has 3G (but i can has 3G too, via pccard in this case)
- it has wifi "n"

so now.. i'm using my laptop for all the stuff you use an ipad for, except i use the keyboard. check mail etc yes.. browser web in conformtable way (heck, ive flash!), view 720p videos without lag, play old games (including quake live), fix stuff, *work*, crack wifi networks, what-not

i don't think the year of the tablet pc has arrived. i don't know if it ever will. I wouldnt buy one for more than $50, since its going to stay at home (or at work) for quick looks at a web page or a video, or things like that. it wont be a nomade device.

Reply Score: 1

@haters
by google_ninja on Fri 29th Jan 2010 14:07 UTC
google_ninja
Member since:
2006-02-05

slates are the future. 99.9% of people barely use their general purpose computer for all the things it can do. This is a product specifically aimed at internet / media consumption, social networking, and casual games. Guess what most of the home PC users do?

I completely disagree that the market doesn't exist, it just isn't tapped yet. OSNews readers are not the intended audience, anyone who would be interested in this would be the fringe of what they are targeting.

Reply Score: 4

RE: @haters
by SReilly on Fri 29th Jan 2010 14:47 UTC in reply to "@haters"
SReilly Member since:
2006-12-28

You have a very good point there. For us techies, such a device seems almost anathema considering how fast hardware and operating systems have advanced but for the average home user, a device like this is perfect.

My girlfriend has a user account on my custom built PC and I can tell you, the PC is a screamer. The only thing she uses her account for is web browsing (including email and watching TV shows), the odd text document or spread sheet and the odd bit of either skype or IM. While watching her computer usage habits, she would never use more than about 10% of systems resources and the biggest slice of that %10 is taken up by flash.

A device like the iPad (how I hate that name!) would be exceptionally practical for her. Almost all of her data is stored on the net (I refuse to say cloud ;-) so local storage needs are kept to a minimum. She uses one application at a time and doesn't require four gigs of ram or an SLi rig as the only games she ever plays are card games like solitaire.

I do think there is a market for low powered tablets and if anybody can market the concept, surely it's Apple.

Reply Score: 4

RE[2]: @haters
by google_ninja on Fri 29th Jan 2010 15:30 UTC in reply to "RE: @haters"
google_ninja Member since:
2006-02-05

Its not only power though, its what the machine is capable of, and all the things that are available on the internet.

At home, I use my computer to
- read industry news
- play games
- program
- record and edit music
- watch tv/movies
- manage my various devices (iphone/ipod/e-reader)
- play around with virtualized operating systems
- experiment with apps and platforms I am not familiar with


My wife uses her computer to
- facebook
- youtube
- look at cute animal pictures
- IM
- watch tv/movies

Thats it. Thats what the iPad does (yeah, the name sucks), it does it well, it does it easily, and it does it with style. Not only that, but throw in 3g, and you don't even have to worry about ISPs or routers or anything like that. And finally, it is at a price comparable to a laptop.

I don't see how this cannot be huge. about 90% of tech bloggers seem to completely miss the point, but that shows more how out of touch they are then anything else (remember this? http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?t=500) What people here need to realize is that they are a niche audience, things that are popular with them will probably never be mainstream in any significant way.

Edited 2010-01-29 15:31 UTC

Reply Score: 2

RE[3]: @haters
by SReilly on Fri 29th Jan 2010 16:50 UTC in reply to "RE[2]: @haters"
SReilly Member since:
2006-12-28

I absolutely agree, though I'd like to clarify that what I mean by low powered also includes long battery life. The one thing I use my netbook for is exactly what my girlfriend would use the iPad for but instead of having to deal with the complex environment that is a Linux distribution (even if it's Ubuntu), she could use a completely integrated environment with a minimum amount of setup and maintenance.

Sure, the lock-in would drive me mad but as you quite rightly pointed out, I'm a consumer of a niche market. Hell, I build my own systems because I want them to be just so.

What do you think about Adobe porting Flash to the iPad? Do they already have an ARM port?

Reply Score: 2

RE[4]: @haters
by macUser on Fri 29th Jan 2010 17:12 UTC in reply to "RE[3]: @haters"
macUser Member since:
2006-12-15

I absolutely agree, though I'd like to clarify that what I mean by low powered also includes long battery life. The one thing I use my netbook for is exactly what my girlfriend would use the iPad for but instead of having to deal with the complex environment that is a Linux distribution (even if it's Ubuntu), she could use a completely integrated environment with a minimum amount of setup and maintenance.

Sure, the lock-in would drive me mad but as you quite rightly pointed out, I'm a consumer of a niche market. Hell, I build my own systems because I want them to be just so.

What do you think about Adobe porting Flash to the iPad? Do they already have an ARM port?


Apple would have to let them in the door... Or you'd have to hack the iPad, and I don't think Adobe would bet their business plan on that.

Reply Score: 2

RE: @haters
by macUser on Fri 29th Jan 2010 15:55 UTC in reply to "@haters"
macUser Member since:
2006-12-15

slates are the future. 99.9% of people barely use their general purpose computer for all the things it can do. This is a product specifically aimed at internet / media consumption, social networking, and casual games. Guess what most of the home PC users do?

I completely disagree that the market doesn't exist, it just isn't tapped yet. OSNews readers are not the intended audience, anyone who would be interested in this would be the fringe of what they are targeting.


This device is either going to make complete sense to you or you're going to scratch your head and wonder why it could possibly be so endearing to people.

People got a paradigm changer in the iPad and are so stuck on it not being a super multi-task render farm in their hand they don't even realize it.

Your computer is for work. The iPad is for life.

Reply Score: 2

RE: @haters
by Laurence on Fri 29th Jan 2010 16:07 UTC in reply to "@haters"
Laurence Member since:
2007-03-26

slates are the future. 99.9% of people barely use their general purpose computer for all the things it can do.

So the future is less capable devices at inflated prices?!?


This is a product specifically aimed at internet / media consumption, social networking, and casual games. Guess what most of the home PC users do?

At a guess: they Buy cheap systems to do this because they don't want to spend a lot of money on something they only casually use?

Price matters to the average home PC user. Price matters a lot.


I completely disagree that the market doesn't exist, it just isn't tapped yet.

It has been tapped. Why do you think netbooks are so popular?


OSNews readers are not the intended audience, anyone who would be interested in this would be the fringe of what they are targeting.


I think Google have the right idea with ChromeOS
Asus had the right idea with netbook hardware.
But Apple have completely lost sight of reality with the Ipad.

Thus I think the Ipad's biggest market is really just gadget junkies with cash to burn.

Reply Score: 2

RE[2]: @haters
by google_ninja on Fri 29th Jan 2010 16:41 UTC in reply to "RE: @haters"
google_ninja Member since:
2006-02-05

So the future is less capable devices at inflated prices?!?


I was pretty shocked actually. Conductive screens are not cheap, and 500$ comes way under what I would expect something like this to cost.

At a guess: they Buy cheap systems to do this because they don't want to spend a lot of money on something they only casually use?

Price matters to the average home PC user. Price matters a lot.


Another 100$ for a machine with a great OS that "just works" and a really great touch screen isn't exactly the end of the world.

It has been tapped. Why do you think netbooks are so popular?


Netbooks are still using inappropriate operating systems for an "appliance" machine. Things are getting better (http://www.jolicloud.com/), but that is basically a cheap copy of the iPhone OS anyways.

I think Google have the right idea with ChromeOS
Asus had the right idea with netbook hardware.
But Apple have completely lost sight of reality with the Ipad.


Chrome OS does not cover things like watching movies or listening to / downloading music, because it is designed deliberately with no persistant storage in mind.

Thus I think the Ipad's biggest market is really just gadget junkies with cash to burn.


We'll see. Like I quoted before, http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?t=500. We have been through all this before; apple releases a consumer product, techies dont get it and think it is over priced and gimmicky, and it completely dominates the market, cause the market is not made up of techies.

Reply Score: 2

RE[3]: @haters
by boldingd on Fri 29th Jan 2010 18:46 UTC in reply to "RE[2]: @haters"
boldingd Member since:
2009-02-19

People have also pointed out the Cube (which I actually bought) and the apple TV appliance. It's equally true that Apple can fail completely.

In my view, this thing is a purely secondary device. Sure, it's cool, and people will want it, if for no other reason than it's coolness-factor. I can even believe it will sell in at least modest numbers. But I highly, highly doubt that it's going to "dominate the market." It very much remains to be seen if people will shell out $500 at the entry-level for a device that's purely supplementary (and that doesn't really do anything their computer and TV don't already do anyway).

I mean, hell, like Thom said, people already knew they liked portable music players and smart phones, and there where already markets for such things; it's much less clear that people have been wanting a tablet-like device, and it's highly doubtful that huge numbers of people will be willing to pay the price Apple's asking for one.

Edited 2010-01-29 18:47 UTC

Reply Score: 2

Keynote Freudian Slip
by chrisfriberg on Fri 29th Jan 2010 15:55 UTC
chrisfriberg
Member since:
2009-04-08

I'm pretty sure I heard Steve accidentally call the iPad an iPod once in the keynote.

Reply Score: 1

Did they really ask a question?
by Einlander on Sun 31st Jan 2010 13:36 UTC
Einlander
Member since:
2009-07-08

Or did they answer a question that wasnt asked, with the wrong answer at that?

Reply Score: 1