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It will be the same locked down crap. I don't want.

And I don't think a two page design is good for reading just because real book have two pages. One page suits my needs for reading more.

My bet will be on the Notion Ink Adam. I want Pixel Qi and I don't want to clip websites with a pen. I want to read my PDFs.

Then you are obviously not part of the target market :p

if it works exactly like this, then it's way better than an ipad.it's so cool i want one.

Really??? It takes years of development to say. Take an ipod touch, and make it bigger?

Really??? It takes years of development to say. Take an ipod touch, and make it bigger? "

This is a technical forum. I would expect that kind of comment on YouTube. If you really think it is just an iPod touch made bigger, you haven't been observing very closely.

I HAVE been observing closely, and I happen to agree. It IS an oversized iPod Touch. Any arguments that prove the contrary?

I HAVE been observing closely, and I happen to agree. It IS an oversized iPod Touch. Any arguments that prove the contrary? "

If you look at the interface options for iPad, the demoed games and Apps (especially the new iWork office suit) you will see that the iPad operating system is a substantial development over the previous iPhone OS whilst being built on the same basic framework (MacOSX). The iPad developers SDK offers all sorts of new ways to do things and additional functions to build into apps. If you visit the forums of the huge iPhone developers community you will see a real sense of excitement over what can now be done on the iPad. The fact you can run any of the existing 150,000 iPhone apps on an iPad with no changes is just a plus for the launch period. As soon as the iPad launches you will see an avalanche of new apps using the potential unleashed by the iPad OS.

As I said earlier - all Microsoft has released is a cartoon of something called a Courier, there are no apps, no specs, no launch date, no price, no details about its operating system, no SDK and no developers community. I could release a cartoon of a Holo deck - doesn't mean I can build one.

Apart from the bigger screen (and thus more room for bog-standard interface elements) - like what?

Apart from the bigger screen (and thus more room for bog-standard interface elements) - like what? "

http://blog.concentricsky.com/2010/01/ipad-whats-new-in-iphone-os-3...

I HAVE been observing closely, and I happen to agree. It IS an oversized iPod Touch. Any arguments that prove the contrary? "

If you really have been watching carefully, then your mind is made up. Nothing will *prove* it to you

and other than a bigger screen, and the inability for some of them to use 3g, it is a big ol' ipod touch. Same OS, same interactions, same apps, same appstore, mostly the same limitations. Christ some iphone apps can't even make use of the increased screen real estate, so please, fill me in on the differences. I don't care what the processor is, or the fact it can run iWork.

Edited 2010-03-08 12:09 UTC

Same interactions and same apps? NO. The differences have already been covered. So I won't re-iterate.


Your ideological differences with Apple's retail approach were never going to be appeased by a new product. What did you expect?



Maybe because they were designed for the iPhone, not the iPad? New apps will be able to target both. Another reason the iPad is different.


AKA "My mind is made up. Don't confuse me with facts"

Same interactions and same apps? NO. The differences have already been covered. So I won't re-iterate.

" [/q] Multitouch, check, virtual keyboard, check. Can only by apps from the Apple or itunes stores? Check. Who you trying to to kid?


Your ideological differences with Apple's retail approach were never going to be appeased by a new product. What did you expect? " [/q]

Do you know me? How in hell can you speak to my ideology? I have nothing against Apple's retail model, it's the fact that there isn't anything compelling over an iPod Touch, other than size, and that is partially outweighed by the fact that many apps cannot take advantage of the increase in screen real estate.

An opinion on something is not ideology, it is an opinion. My opinion is that this is a big ass ipod touch, that happens to have a higher rez screen.

My ideology is more humanist, with a strong believe in civil rights and equality for all. Can you see the difference? One is an opinion on a piece of technology, and one is a lifestyle.



Maybe because they were designed for the iPhone, not the iPad? New apps will be able to target both. Another reason the iPad is different. " [/q]

A bigger screen and bezel does not make something a different type of computer. I can replace my laptop with a newer, bigger laptop, but that doesn't mean it's still not a laptop, running Windows or Debian. I can replace my desktop with a laptop, and yes that is different.

if all it takes to "innovate" in this new climate is change the size of the screen, and leave everything else the way it is, perhaps it is best that global warming wipe us out, we're to stupid to live.


AKA "My mind is made up. Don't confuse me with facts" " [/q]

My mind is made up, sure. It's resigned to the fact that Apple, who have made some real game changing devices in the past, have dropped the ball on this one.

"…Apple logo, check? Power button check?". You can state as many straw men as you like. It doesn't change the fact that those things are not what I'm referring to.


Woah. Hey lets drop the mock outrage shall we? Of course I don't know you so obviously I'm not talking about your social ideology. I'm only judging your attitude to certain technology and practices from you comments. These forums are filled with idealism. you know it and I know it.


Hey you're entitled to your opinion. In fact, you're welcome to it


That's nice. Not sure why you went there, but anyway…


…and I never said it did. I specifically said that noticing those aspects alone was a simplistic assessment of the differences.


Arguing these semantics could continue for many posts (and that has been done to death on OSNews). Since we seem to be getting hung up on the form factor here, you may as well argue that all machines of a tablet form factor are just an oversized iPod Touch then. Fair enough then, I won't try to convince you otherwise.


Maybe they did. The market will decide

"Your ideological differences with Apple's retail approach were never going to be appeased by a new product. What did you expect?"

I think this "What did you expect?" feels somewhat wrong.

Is it wrong to expect innovation and changes ? Microsoft themselves, the most monopolistic and hated company in the world, have taken some risks and introduced welcome innovation recently...

-Windows 7 : More polish, less bloat than previous release (unique in Windows history), a little less annoying popups, innovations around the dock concept (that didn't change much since OS X 10.0)... It's still a stupid Microsoft OS, but it feels like a step in the good direction, and a big step.
-Windows phone 7 : After years of trying to manage compatibility for Windows 1 in the successive Windows releases with no luck, Microsoft *finally* accept that breaking compatibility is sometimes needed for the sake of stability, cleanness, and innovation
-Ribbons : It's sure not perfect, but feels more appealing to me than the huge toolbars of older releases of Office and of OpenOffice ! And again, they've taken a risk, and assume the criticism they take

Sure, they still have some nasty things around, that help keeping the Microsoft name hated, like IE, OoXML, Silverlight, C#/.Net, and so on. But they're moving forward, and they're actually doing some things right.

Where are Apple now ? Leopard was hugely bloated and inefficient in places (TimeMachine&Firewall config, inconsistent behavior in Stacks, unreadable light on 3D dock, anyone ?). SnowLeopard is like Windows 7 after Windows Vista. It looks like Apple are cloning microsoft now, when Microsoft introduce a bloated OS, they introduce a bloated OS, when Microsoft introduce a cleaner one, they introduce a cleaner one.

Is innovation from Apple on the handheld market ? Well, the iPods still require iTunes, the Shuffle is still incredibly overpriced, and all in all the nano is just a mini with some games, basic video support requiring re-encoding, and flash memory on the inside.

The iPhone came in 2006, with a pretty multitouch interface, app store stolen from UNIX repositories and dumbed down for jailing purposes, and, well, an excellent web browser. It lacked a lot of basic phone features. The new release fixed that, but where's innovation again in those releases ? In the 320x240 screen and 1 day battery life ? Duh...

And then there's the iPad. They got a chance to give some life to the tablet market, and they made an oversized iPod touch with the same old crappy iPhoneOS, just with some tweaks here and there that were the bare minimum with the screen size change. Is that fine ?

Courier looks like real innovation to me. It may be crappy and fail, but it is an attempt at the task of doing something new in the tablet world. Apple do nothing nowadays, they've got income so they just sleep on there pile of gold. And introduce some multitouch device with 1 day battery life.

"Thank you for making Safari Mobile, Apple, it was a really big thing. But now it's time to move on. To surprise your users instead of jailing them." This is how I feel about Apple.

Edited 2010-03-08 21:18 UTC

I'm not sure how it's "wrong". I'm just being realistic.

Well... I used to want an iPad when it wasn't out.

I looked for something to carry around and read the huge amount of PDF I get in college. Said PDF being transferred by drag and drop in a file explorer, not through some SSH nonsense.
For something which would work with my Linux computer like the simplest noname usb pen around.
Which would include a useful home screen allowing one to get agenda information with a single look and organize applications in folders instead of having to browse a lot of cluttered pages.
Something which would allow me, on my spare time, to browse the web and write mails based on what I read through copying and pasting text from the web to mails.
Something which would allow me to listen to a webradio when doing all that.

Apple killed my dreams by shipping the iPad with iPhoneOS.

So now I look at Courier and think it's way more interesting that a device that has already proven to be bundled with a stupid and dictatorial OS, because at the moment I'm not *sure* that it will be such a deception.

Though choice, as you said

Edited 2010-03-08 08:32 UTC

It's only on nerd forums where people actually try to discern 'usability' from screenshots and promotional videos.

If we are going by looks alone, MS certainly seemed to have thought outside the box and are pushing something fresh, new and informal. I commend them for that.

…but that has nothing to do with usability.

The iPad promotional videos on the other hand, show a workflow that is consistent with an established platform and with some conformance to some basic usability principals.

1) Clearly labelled exits.
2) Always let the user know where they are.

This is noticeably absent from the Courier video. The user seems to miraculously always get to the content they need immediately with some non-discoverable gesture.
I'm sure that if and when this is more concrete than a marketing video, MS will have something much more conforming visually, but at least learnable. Until then, it's funny to see how many people see a bit of MS Comic Sans* used and interpret it as the second coming in usability.

*Substitute your favorite "fun" font.

Edited 2010-03-07 04:54 UTC

Well, if it ran Linux - it would come in 300 different "flavors", would be cheaper, and not work with a projector.

You mean like the way cell phones come in many different flavors and happen to use Linux based systems in many cases? Or maybe you mean the way tht fracturing of Cars between all these seporate companies making different models has been so detrimental?

If a device like this where delivered missing functionality; that would be the fault of the manufacturer not due to the OS chosen to pre-install.

The issues Linux based OS have to overcome now are rarely imposed by the software developers; it's usually some hardware component manufacturer catering to an intentionally non-standard OS API. It's not because developers don't want to support Nvidia GPU in the kernel and X.org natively but because Nvidia chooses to not too allow it.

But, don't let facts and understanding get in the way of a cheap shot.

Honestly, this would be a cool device to look at regardless of what kernel the OS happened to use. The real question will be how inter-operable it will be with other OS or will it be incompatible by design to lock consumers into a single brand name the way the Ipad does. If it doesn't present synthetic barriers against what OS I have in my home then the currier is a pretty sweet looking bit of hardware even with the MS brand behind it.

He was using a literary device - put down the coffee and grab a beer.

lol, you two crack me up.

Why so serious?

Yours is the most apropriate to fork this comment off.

I could due with a way to change the user profile name? This has to be the only site I've stumbled on that does not allow registered users to change the alias presented along side the comments. The registration form was not particularly clear about that limitation either.

Thom, if there is a new website back end pending, can that ability be included?

You do realise you have free will, right? That you can, like, totally skip articles? That you are, uh like, you know, totally not forced to read them?

Just, like, suggesting, bra.

I like the fact that I can use OSnews to aggregate all the important stuff from other sites. I don't check Engadget daily, but I do check OSnews.

There is only so much information I can handle per day.

For a lot of large companies the size of Microsoft, they're like a Greek dance - starts off slowly and gradually speeds up. Microsoft is no different to Intel, for example, which took almost ice ages for them to turn around their organisation away from the P4 NetBurst with a pipe line that goes to the moon and back to the now PIII based, more efficient architecture. For Microsoft it has taken them ages to finally make the changes to Windows that started in Windows Vista and finalised in Windows 7 to make their operating system more palatable. Office is finally making the leap with 2010 along with Live Essentials finally being refined with Wave 4 hopefully sometime this year.

The problem with Microsoft isn't whether they would do something but whether someone would put a fire cracker under the ass of the manager and finally get things moving along at a pace worthy of a thoroughbred. I hope that with the re-organisation that Ballmer has made that one will see some strong and decisive leadership by Microsoft management rather than this aimless wondering around in the wilderness that one has seen in prior years.

Edited 2010-03-06 09:06 UTC

They slapped 2 lcd's together.

The "out of the box" thinking here is that they might have a way to make it at reasonable pricepoint. If it costs 700eur, I'd rather have one screen at 350 eur.

Otherwise it will be a cool device for premium audience, but it probably won't be a mass phenomenon.

There is only one other foldable dual-screen computer I know of and it its teh hugeness - The enTourage eDGe - http://www.entourageedge.com/ .

I was going to buy one, but now I think I might hold off and see if MS makes good on the Courier.

One more thing, MS definitely needs to work on making the gestures/actions more obvious. In the video, there were a number of times when I was wondering how the mode suddenly changed.

Also, even where I understood it, the gestures weren't something that a new user would be able to figure out without quite a bit of training.

It sort of seemed like a pro version of iPad, more complex but with more features.

Erm, no. The rumour is that the Courier is real. There's nothing oxymoronic about it.

Edited 2010-03-06 19:41 UTC