Linked by Thom Holwerda on Wed 31st Mar 2010 21:55 UTC
Legal I guess this is what some people would call "karma". Apple may shout off the rooftops that it invented multitouch, and that anyone else using it is clearly stealing it from them - but another company has taken offence to that, and has slapped the Cupertino giant with a patent infringement suit over multitouch.
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Good news?
by emilsedgh on Wed 31st Mar 2010 22:08 UTC
emilsedgh
Member since:
2007-06-21

Im very happy and excited about this for two reasons:

1) The only way of getting rid of patents, is having more lawsuits. Its really ridiculous and it becomes more obvious until someday it will end. Someday, when companies have shot each other 'enough'.

2) Apple, oh you damn company. The most evil company in whole IT industry. I would love to see you paying a huge amount of money for patents. How it feels like? huh?

Reply Score: 11

RE: Good news?
by CPUGuy on Wed 31st Mar 2010 22:29 UTC in reply to "Good news?"
CPUGuy Member since:
2005-07-06

I don't mind the patents however waiting for a company to make billions on a product before enforcing it is despicable.

Reply Score: 3

RE[2]: Good news?
by merkoth on Wed 31st Mar 2010 22:49 UTC in reply to "RE: Good news?"
merkoth Member since:
2006-09-22

I don't mind the patents however waiting for a company to make billions on a product before enforcing it is despicable.


Not doing proper research and stomping into someone else's intelectual property is despicable too. Apple, a company that seems to pay great attention regarding its own intellectual bull... err... property portfolio, should be more careful.

Oh, WTH, this is great news. I love the irony of the entire situation :-D

Reply Score: 11

RE[3]: Good news?
by WereCatf on Wed 31st Mar 2010 22:54 UTC in reply to "RE[2]: Good news?"
WereCatf Member since:
2006-02-15

Oh, WTH, this is great news. I love the irony of the entire situation :-D

Dear sir, you sure aren't the only one! Apple has been suing people over multitouch, they've been threatening, they've been bullying, they've been doing everything they can to piss other people and companies off..and now they are getting sued themselves over the EXACT same thing. Oh god, this is wonderful!

Reply Score: 13

RE[4]: Good news?
by tyrione on Thu 1st Apr 2010 05:55 UTC in reply to "RE[3]: Good news?"
tyrione Member since:
2005-11-21

Oh, WTH, this is great news. I love the irony of the entire situation :-D

Dear sir, you sure aren't the only one! Apple has been suing people over multitouch, they've been threatening, they've been bullying, they've been doing everything they can to piss other people and companies off..and now they are getting sued themselves over the EXACT same thing. Oh god, this is wonderful!


FWIW: Apple is defending their patents after several companies ignored them and went ahead and chose to produce products and see if Apple will sue.

HTC will lose. Google is already in talks with Apple at the top brass to figure out how to diffuse the situation and Nokia is going to fall on its face with it's request while having to deal with Apple's counter.

Whether you like it or not, Apple has amassed nearly 4000 patents since 2004 for their latest products.

They've learned from the past. They won't repeat that mistake.

Reply Score: 0

RE[5]: Good news?
by Laurence on Thu 1st Apr 2010 10:23 UTC in reply to "RE[4]: Good news?"
Laurence Member since:
2007-03-26

Apple is defending their patents after several companies ignored them and went ahead and chose to produce products and see if Apple will sue.

There's a difference between patenting new technology and patenting a fairly standard idea.
Most of Apples patents were so absurdly run-of-the-mill that short of all smart phones defaulting to a CLI, there was bound to be infringements.

For example: "using a gesture to unlock a phone" is hardly innovative. Gestures to unlock devices have been standard practice whether it's a hardware switch to flip open a laptop lid to a key you turn to open a door. Apple wasn't pioneering a revolution there, they were patenting the bloody obvious.

HTC will lose.

Thanks for that legal insight, however I think I'll wait for the real lawyers and judges to have their say before jumping to any conclusions.
If history has taught us anything, it's usually hard to predict just who will win in these cases (hence why so many of them are settled out of court).

Google is already in talks with Apple at the top brass to figure out how to diffuse the situation

That is standard practice. Not proof of a possible result.

and Nokia is going to fall on its face with it's request while having to deal with Apple's counter.

See point #2

Furthermore what makes you think Nokia's GSM -for example- patents (technology Nokia did develop) are less relevant than Apples patents.

Surely by stating that Apple has a right to uphold their patent portfolio but Nokia's patents are worthless is employing a huge dose of double standards

Whether you like it or not, Apple has amassed nearly 4000 patents since 2004 for their latest products.

See point #1

Reply Score: 5

RE[6]: Good news?
by twitterfire on Thu 1st Apr 2010 14:55 UTC in reply to "RE[5]: Good news?"
twitterfire Member since:
2008-09-11


There's a difference between patenting new technology and patenting a fairly standard idea.
Most of Apples patents were so absurdly run-of-the-mill that short of all smart phones defaulting to a CLI, there was bound to be infringements.

For example: "using a gesture to unlock a phone" is hardly innovative. Gestures to unlock devices have been standard practice whether it's a hardware switch to flip open a laptop lid to a key you turn to open a door. Apple wasn't pioneering a revolution there, they were patenting the bloody obvious.


This is the american patent system at it's best: permitting companies like Apple to patent general ideas and obvious things. Tomorrow we will hear that Apple has patented the wheel, and we must pay royalties to Apple if we own a car, a bike or even a wheelchair.

Reply Score: 2

RE[7]: Good news?
by CPUGuy on Fri 2nd Apr 2010 11:58 UTC in reply to "RE[6]: Good news?"
CPUGuy Member since:
2005-07-06

It's hardly obvious when no other cell manufacturer is doing it... and now all of a sudden several are building it in.

These things are only obvious once you've seen it in action.

Reply Score: 2

RE[5]: Good news?
by TechGeek on Thu 1st Apr 2010 14:24 UTC in reply to "RE[4]: Good news?"
TechGeek Member since:
2006-01-14


FWIW: Apple is defending their patents after several companies ignored them and went ahead and chose to produce products and see if Apple will sue.

HTC will lose. Google is already in talks with Apple at the top brass to figure out how to diffuse the situation and Nokia is going to fall on its face with it's request while having to deal with Apple's counter.

Whether you like it or not, Apple has amassed nearly 4000 patents since 2004 for their latest products.

They've learned from the past. They won't repeat that mistake.


You seem to be missing the fact that Elan has been making touch sensitive screens since the late nineties. I know, I have several of them. Not to mention that Nokia invented most of the cell technology that Apple is conveniently using without paying for. Regardless of anything else, they will still owe Nokia for the license fee, whatever that ends up being. Google may cross license, but they will NOT back down and remove touch from Android. Apple is going to have to take its knocks. They may get knocked a little or knocked hard, the courts will determine.

Reply Score: 3

RE[3]: Good news?
by nabil2199 on Wed 31st Mar 2010 23:02 UTC in reply to "RE[2]: Good news?"
nabil2199 Member since:
2010-03-31

I guess what goes around comes around.
I can't understand how apple is doing so well, at least commercially, by taking so many from its customers.

Reply Score: 4

RE[3]: Good news?
by sorpigal on Thu 1st Apr 2010 12:07 UTC in reply to "RE[2]: Good news?"
sorpigal Member since:
2005-11-02

Not doing proper research and stomping into someone else's intelectual property is despicable too.


It is somewhere between extremely difficult and impossible to be sure that there are no existing patents that apply to your work. I can't ever fault someone for developing a product without knowing it infringes on an existing patent, unless a trivial search would confirm that it does.

Reply Score: 2

RE[2]: Good news?
by TechGeek on Wed 31st Mar 2010 23:51 UTC in reply to "RE: Good news?"
TechGeek Member since:
2006-01-14

I don't mind the patents however waiting for a company to make billions on a product before enforcing it is despicable.


So is using someone else's technology (Nokia) for three years, making billions, without paying the license fee. But then, I guess thats not a problem if you are Steve Jobs.

Reply Score: 6

RE[3]: Good news?
by twitterfire on Thu 1st Apr 2010 14:20 UTC in reply to "RE[2]: Good news?"
twitterfire Member since:
2008-09-11

"I don't mind the patents however waiting for a company to make billions on a product before enforcing it is despicable.


So is using someone else's technology (Nokia) for three years, making billions, without paying the license fee. But then, I guess thats not a problem if you are Steve Jobs.
"

No, but if you are Steve Jobs you see a big problem when someone install Os X on non-Apple hardware (Psystar) or when someone (HTC & Google) tries to sell a better alternative to iPad.

Reply Score: 2

v RE: Good news?
by Tony Swash on Wed 31st Mar 2010 23:02 UTC in reply to "Good news?"
RE[2]: Good news?
by Thom_Holwerda on Wed 31st Mar 2010 23:04 UTC in reply to "RE: Good news?"
Thom_Holwerda Member since:
2005-06-29

If think Apple is "evil" you really need to get out more.


I'm going to bed now, so I'll leave the list-making to someone else.

Take it away, people.

Reply Score: 1

RE[2]: Good news?
by nabil2199 on Wed 31st Mar 2010 23:12 UTC in reply to "RE: Good news?"
nabil2199 Member since:
2010-03-31

"a totally stable desktop computer with a wonderful interface in a tasteful and well constructed enclosure, a beautifully designed music player that means I can take my whole music collection anywhere I want and is a dream to use, a phone thats almost as powerful as a desktop computer with a finely engineered touch interface that does stuff that literally makes my friends gasp in admiration and which has a vast library of inexpensive apps that I can easily download and safely install and - oh wait a minute - uh?"

I'm sure you believe that the ipad is magical too ;)

Reply Score: 5

RE[2]: Good news?
by Bill Shooter of Bul on Thu 1st Apr 2010 04:43 UTC in reply to "RE: Good news?"
Bill Shooter of Bul Member since:
2006-07-14

... in a tasteful and well constructed enclosure, a beautifully designed ....that does stuff that literally makes my friends gasp in admiration


Apple. There was a brief period of time earlier this decade, that they were a really nice combination of form and function, with function preceding form. I think they've really lost their way. Many of my friend's who bought Mac's during this time period are migrating away. The useful tech hasn't kept pace.

Reply Score: 3

RE[3]: Good news?
by darknexus on Thu 1st Apr 2010 05:50 UTC in reply to "RE[2]: Good news?"
darknexus Member since:
2008-07-15

To be fair, the latest generation of Macbook is quite nice and it gets battery life I've never seen in a typically-designed PC laptop with as much computing power. Of course that form and battery come at a price, namely that you can no longer change it yourself unless you want to void your warranty.

Reply Score: 4

RE[4]: Good news?
by Bill Shooter of Bul on Thu 1st Apr 2010 06:39 UTC in reply to "RE[3]: Good news?"
Bill Shooter of Bul Member since:
2006-07-14

Yes, the form (of the mac book) detracts from the function (of changing the battery). That is correct. That is what I do *not* like about apple 2010.

Reply Score: 1

RE[5]: Good news?
by Mellin on Thu 1st Apr 2010 07:50 UTC in reply to "RE[4]: Good news?"
Mellin Member since:
2005-07-06

Dell Vostro V13 N0113002 built in battery so not just Apple does that

Reply Score: 3

RE[6]: Good news?
by Bill Shooter of Bul on Thu 1st Apr 2010 14:58 UTC in reply to "RE[5]: Good news?"
Bill Shooter of Bul Member since:
2006-07-14

Yeah, didn't say I liked dell any better. I judge products on an absolute scale, not a relative one.

Reply Score: 2

RE[6]: Good news? - Dell
by jabbotts on Thu 1st Apr 2010 16:36 UTC in reply to "RE[5]: Good news?"
jabbotts Member since:
2007-09-06

If a quality system vendor like Dell does it, how could it be a bad thing?

Reply Score: 2

RE[7]: Good news? - Dell
by Mellin on Thu 1st Apr 2010 22:16 UTC in reply to "RE[6]: Good news? - Dell"
Mellin Member since:
2005-07-06

bad quality system vendor (what i think)

Reply Score: 2

RE[7]: Good news? - Dell
by Bill Shooter of Bul on Fri 2nd Apr 2010 07:54 UTC in reply to "RE[6]: Good news? - Dell"
Bill Shooter of Bul Member since:
2006-07-14

What the hell? I didn't say Dell was a quality system vendor. Plus, that has nothing to do with the price of tea in Australia.

Lets suppose Dell is a quality system vendor. By your axium nothing they do could be a bad thing?

Reply Score: 2

RE[4]: Good news?
by fatjoe on Thu 1st Apr 2010 07:53 UTC in reply to "RE[3]: Good news?"
fatjoe Member since:
2010-01-12

Is that really true anymore? I am getting 11+ hours from the [better speced] ASUS UL30.

Just to clear things up, what do you get out of a MBA with moderate use?

Reply Score: 1

RE[5]: Good news?
by darknexus on Thu 1st Apr 2010 18:03 UTC in reply to "RE[4]: Good news?"
darknexus Member since:
2008-07-15

Is that really true anymore? I am getting 11+ hours from the [better speced] ASUS UL30.

Just to clear things up, what do you get out of a MBA with moderate use?


I wasn't referring to the Air, at least that's what I assume you meant by MBA. I was referring to the $999 Macbook in its latest edition. I agree, the Air is pathetic when you put it against other subnotebooks like the UL30, but I was talking about full-powered laptops. The UL30 and the Macbook are in completely different categories, and the Macbook is speced much higher than the UL30 as a result. So far, I've gotten the battery life advertised on the units I've used, a good 7 hours. I was even able to run it for five hours with OS X and a Windows XP virtual machine running at the same time. I'd actually like to know, is there a full-powered PC laptop that can match the Macbook when it comes to battery? Note that I'm only talking about the latest generation with the new battery.

Reply Score: 2

RE[2]: Good news?
by helf on Thu 1st Apr 2010 05:08 UTC in reply to "RE: Good news?"
helf Member since:
2005-07-06

I'm glad Apple's stuff is working out so well for you...

The OS is hardly 'totally stable'. It suffers from bugs like anything else. We've had our mac pro at work kernel panic once and the UI has locked up (beach ball of death) me times than I can count.

The phone is hardly as powerful as a desktop. Claiming so is laughable and just shows ignorance. It IS a fairly powerful handheld device. But there have been as/more powerful phones for awhile now.

I'll give you the iPod one. It is designed pretty well. Too bad I despise iTunes :p

Reply Score: 3

RE[3]: Good news?
by Tony Swash on Thu 1st Apr 2010 08:35 UTC in reply to "RE[2]: Good news?"
Tony Swash Member since:
2009-08-22

I'm glad Apple's stuff is working out so well for you...


I think I was, as they say, gilding the lilly for sarcastic effect. The main point is that when people talk about Apple being evil it just sounds silly. Saddam Hussein was evil, children molesters are evil. At best all one could say about Apple is that you don't like their products (which is fine as they are not a monopoly so you are always free to buy some other companies products) or that their corporate image irritates you.

Endless hyperbole just degrades the language and hinders communication.

Reply Score: 1

RE[4]: Good news?
by spiderman on Thu 1st Apr 2010 09:34 UTC in reply to "RE[3]: Good news?"
spiderman Member since:
2008-10-23

Apple is that you don't like their products (which is fine as they are not a monopoly so you are always free to buy some other companies products) or that their corporate image irritates you.

Except they sue any competitor that use anything remotely related to multitouch. So that makes them a monopoly in multitouch devices. I can't buy competing products because they don't allow it. They are control freaks.
I actually like their product but their policy sucks. I'll never buy anything from them and I'll urge everyone not to buy from them. Their policy does not only affect their customers. It is detrimental to society at large and should be condemned as such. The public must know. They are using their marketing machine to hide their behaviour. If you don't think their policy is a problem, I'll debate you and I'll try to convince you.

Reply Score: 2

RE[4]: Good news?
by helf on Thu 1st Apr 2010 12:05 UTC in reply to "RE[3]: Good news?"
helf Member since:
2005-07-06

sarcasm has a tendency to not come across well on the comment sections of this site :p Since your post sounded perfectly normal for quite a few users here.

Reply Score: 2

RE[2]: Good news?
by emilsedgh on Thu 1st Apr 2010 08:35 UTC in reply to "RE: Good news?"
emilsedgh Member since:
2007-06-21

Im not judging Apple by its products. Apple produces nice products. But their policy and actions is what makes them so damn evil.

Reply Score: 2

RE[2]: Good news?
by BluenoseJake on Thu 1st Apr 2010 15:36 UTC in reply to "RE: Good news?"
BluenoseJake Member since:
2005-08-11

Hey, Dell gave me the same thing, and I also have the choice of peripherals and upgrades.

Reply Score: 2

RE[2]: Good news?
by FunkyELF on Thu 1st Apr 2010 18:43 UTC in reply to "RE: Good news?"
FunkyELF Member since:
2006-07-26

...with a finely engineered touch interface that does stuff that literally makes my friends gasp in admiration..."


To paraphrase.... "Oooh!... Shiny!"

Reply Score: 2

RE: Good news?
by jack_perry on Wed 31st Mar 2010 23:27 UTC in reply to "Good news?"
jack_perry Member since:
2005-07-06

The only way of getting rid of patents, is having more lawsuits.


I suspect you underestimate the ability of one group of lawyers (those who profit by filing suits--not winning them, mind, but filing them) to influence another group of lawyers (those who legislate).

Reply Score: 2

Wie kaatst....
by alcibiades on Wed 31st Mar 2010 22:15 UTC
alcibiades
Member since:
2005-10-12

"Wie kaatst kan de bal verwachten" may be obscure to Thom's non-Dutch speaking readers, so this is offered by way of assistance....

http://translate.google.com/translate?hl=en&sl=nl&u=http://www.gesc...

Reply Score: 2

RE: Wie kaatst....
by drstorm on Thu 1st Apr 2010 01:04 UTC in reply to "Wie kaatst...."
drstorm Member since:
2009-04-24

- Wie kaatst kan de bal verwachten.
- I ja tebi!

:P

Reply Score: 0

Interesting
by Envying1 on Wed 31st Mar 2010 22:23 UTC
Envying1
Member since:
2008-04-22

The patent says "....in a pointing and control device.".

My understanding is "trackpad" may fall under the defined category, but "multitouch screen" is very arguable.

Reply Score: 1

RE: Interesting
by jonathane on Wed 31st Mar 2010 22:28 UTC in reply to "Interesting"
jonathane Member since:
2009-05-31

The "pointing and control device" is the screen, which replaces an external mouse or trackpad.

Reply Score: 2

RE[2]: Interesting
by mrhasbean on Wed 31st Mar 2010 23:03 UTC in reply to "RE: Interesting"
mrhasbean Member since:
2006-04-03

The "pointing and control device" is the screen, which replaces an external mouse or trackpad.


"...appropriate sequences to emulate the operations of cursor control and button actuations in a pointing and control device..."

The iPhone, iTouch and iPad don't have a "pointing and control device" - other than your finger - for it to be emulating, so I don't think this will fly against those devices. It is clearly a patent for trackpads so if anything they could sue Apple over their laptop range, unless of course Apple already pays license fees in regard of those.

Wasn't this patent issued to Logitech? Is this another patent troll?

And for those who keep on this ridiculous soapbox about Apple being "evil". FFS grow up will you. Apple are a company and are no more evil than any other company who want to make a profit. It's called capitalism, and if you don't like it go find some non-captialist country in which to reside - Cuba or North Korea would welcome you with open arms - and I'm sure your access to the internet and latest technology there would be tremendous.

Reply Score: 4

RE[3]: Interesting
by Thom_Holwerda on Wed 31st Mar 2010 23:08 UTC in reply to "RE[2]: Interesting"
Thom_Holwerda Member since:
2005-06-29

The iPhone, iTouch and iPad don't have a "pointing and control device"


Had you read the patent more carefully, you would've noticed they are talking specifically about "touch sensors", which can be implemented in any pointing device - a touch pad or screen or whatever. In fact, the patent mentions the use of a screen quite clearly.

The iPhone's screen is still a pointing device, like any other touch screen or touch pad.

Wasn't this patent issued to Logitech? Is this another patent troll?


Luckily, no. This is an actual, real-world company that makes chips and touch screens, including those used in phones like the iPhone.

http://www.emc.com.tw/eng/index.asp

Edited 2010-03-31 23:10 UTC

Reply Score: 4

RE[3]: Interesting
by glarepate on Thu 1st Apr 2010 01:43 UTC in reply to "RE[2]: Interesting"
glarepate Member since:
2006-01-04

The iPhone, iTouch and iPad don't have a "pointing and control device" - other than your finger - for it to be emulating, so I don't think this will fly against those devices.

In the interest of promoting discussion as opposed to nitpicking your post:

The patent doesn't specify that the implemented functionality is emulating a pointing and control device that already exists on the device in question, just that it emulates one. Maybe even one that isn't on the device because it has an emulator instead of the p and c device.

To my way of thinking this doesn't mean that the patent doesn't apply to Apple's i-devices, just that your example, by invoking the non-existent restriction of already having to have such an interface device and then providing an additional emulated one, doesn't capture the meaning of the patent's claims.

Does that make sense to you or do I just sound like I'm trying to make you look bad? Sorry if the latter.

Reply Score: 3

RE[3]: Interesting
by Soulbender on Thu 1st Apr 2010 04:04 UTC in reply to "RE[2]: Interesting"
Soulbender Member since:
2005-08-18

Apple are a company and are no more evil than any other company who want to make a profit.


Ah, just like Elan, HTC and Nokia.

Reply Score: 3

RE[4]: Interesting
by Mellin on Thu 1st Apr 2010 07:55 UTC in reply to "RE[3]: Interesting"
Mellin Member since:
2005-07-06

microsoft,novell,nestlé,volkswagen, ....

Reply Score: 2

RE[5]: Interesting
by BluenoseJake on Thu 1st Apr 2010 15:37 UTC in reply to "RE[4]: Interesting"
BluenoseJake Member since:
2005-08-11

Actually, Volkswagen may be more evil, they built tanks for the Nazi's in WWII

Edited 2010-04-01 15:37 UTC

Reply Score: 2

RE[6]: Interesting - consider the situation
by jabbotts on Thu 1st Apr 2010 16:58 UTC in reply to "RE[5]: Interesting"
jabbotts Member since:
2007-09-06

I find you have to consider the situation a little more closely.

VW did build military gear. Was that an original business decision or was it "build us these or our nice SS here will audit your staff and business papers.

Similarily, Bauer (I believe it was them else another german chemical company) knew exactly why the government was ordering barrels of chemicals with "human detectable market" (aka, chemical to provide smelly warning) removed from the batch. But, as a german company, you didn't have much choice regarding german government requests.

IBM is far worse; an American company who sold information systems to the germans. Systems which could only be maintained through regular visits by an IBM technician. A technician who had to visit each of the intern camps which had an IBM server being used to manage the body accounting numbers.

But then, the US was directly supplying Germany's freight U-boats for much of the war until they finally joined in with the allies.

Not to be completely off topic, there is a difference between a competitive business and one that goes to the extreme of being morally bankrupt. Things that Microsoft have done and Apple attempts to do now go above and beyond simply being competitive in a healthy capitalist market.

Apple fighting iPhone exception from the DMCA so that purchasing the device and then modifying that device invokes criminal law. To me, that's evil. Void my warranty; fine. Go to the extreme of a civil court case against me; bordering on irrational but ok. Invoke criminal repercussions because I modified my own peronal legally obtained possession; madness, evil madness.

Reply Score: 3

BluenoseJake Member since:
2005-08-11

They started out building cars for the general populace, under Hitlers direction, the first bugs we're so the German people could have affordable cars as the depression ended, then they moved up to tanks and munitions, and used slave labor in their plants.

Reply Score: 2

RE: Interesting
by vodoomoth on Thu 1st Apr 2010 15:35 UTC in reply to "Interesting"
vodoomoth Member since:
2010-03-30

What's arguable in there? Isn't the iPhone's screen used to point and control the smartphone? "Sure it is" you think. Isn't that screen a device? "Of course it is" you end up saying. If so, how can it not be a "pointing and control device"???
...flabbergasted here...

My understanding is "trackpad" may fall under the defined category.

"May"? Come on! Are you such an Apple hardcore follower that it's not obvious a trackpad falls "under the defined category"? If a trackpad doesn't, what would?
I came to discover the MacBook Pro and I love it. But even if I were a hardcore follower, the news of that patent (filed 14 years ago!!) would still make me flinch somehow, enough not to make such a blatant display of something I don't know the translation of (in French, we say "mauvaise foi").

Reply Score: 1

Comment by twitterfire
by twitterfire on Wed 31st Mar 2010 23:51 UTC
twitterfire
Member since:
2008-09-11

Indeed, great news. Apple get what they deserve. I would like them being sued over and over till they get on the edge of bankruptcy.

Reply Score: 1

elan has issued a press release
by viator on Thu 1st Apr 2010 00:30 UTC
viator
Member since:
2005-10-11

As i said in the slashdot article a few days ago.....

Elan micro electronics has issued a press release.......

"We can sit by and watch competitors steal our patented inventions, or we can do something about it.

"We’ve decided to do something about it,” said Yijing Li, ELANS CEO.

“We think competition is healthy, but competitors should create their own original technology, not steal ours.”

LMAO ;) i could help but do that

Anyway heres a small history of multi-touch tech bare in mind the guy worked for ms

http://www.billbuxton.com/multitouchOverview.html

Edited 2010-04-01 00:31 UTC

Reply Score: 6

glarepate Member since:
2006-01-04

Hysterically funny!

Wait! Ya don't suppose that Steve will sue for copyright violation now?

<(^8)<

Reply Score: 5

Creating a monster?
by 3rdalbum on Thu 1st Apr 2010 03:26 UTC
3rdalbum
Member since:
2008-05-26

Yes, it's quite funny that Apple is being sued about this after being so belligerent about "their" technology. But I don't like the idea that Elan might sue HTC and other device manufacturers as well. Because it might happen.

Reply Score: 3

RE: Creating a monster?
by darknexus on Thu 1st Apr 2010 03:42 UTC in reply to "Creating a monster?"
darknexus Member since:
2008-07-15

Yes, it's quite funny that Apple is being sued about this after being so belligerent about "their" technology. But I don't like the idea that Elan might sue HTC and other device manufacturers as well. Because it might happen.


What's fair for one is fair for all. No matter what your personal feelings towards Apple, I would expect HTC et al to be held accountable to the same standard and legal decisions, at least in the countries where patents are applicable. Apple does deserve to get slapped around a lot, but so do HTC if they've also violated the patent in the same way if the patent is found to apply in this case.
Note that I'm not saying I agree with the patent or patents in general, I'm only saying that you can't punish one company just because they're assholes. The same rules apply to everyone, and so do the same patents. You can't pick and choose, or you undermine the idea of law.

Reply Score: 3

tyrione
Member since:
2005-11-21

This is a request from an older lawsuit which will go nowhere.

The USPTO has a massive list of new Touch patents for Apple. Do some research.

Reply Score: 0

Taiwan strikes back
by Savior on Thu 1st Apr 2010 05:51 UTC
Savior
Member since:
2006-09-02

I am wondering if the owners/CEOs of HTC and Elan had a dinner together in the last few days, being both Taiwanese and all.

Anyway, I am seriously happy about this news. I hope Apple learns that what goes around, comes around. Aki másnak vermet ás, maga esik bele. And stuff like that ;)

Reply Score: 3

RE: Taiwan strikes back
by OSGuy on Thu 1st Apr 2010 11:42 UTC in reply to "Taiwan strikes back"
OSGuy Member since:
2006-01-01

Apple probably didn't see this one coming but you make a good point ;)

Edited 2010-04-01 11:44 UTC

Reply Score: 2

Why apple is evil
by Neolander on Thu 1st Apr 2010 08:38 UTC
Neolander
Member since:
2010-03-08

For those who ask why Apple is more evil than others.

Like google, Apple are especially dangerous because they want to control everything, which is the most basic definition of a dictatorship.

On OSX, if you want to use latest processor capabilities, you need Cocoa. If you want to use Cocoa, you need to completely re-do the UI part of your program. If you want to do that easily, you need to completely re-write your whole program in Objective C.
What is objective C ? An object-oriented variant of C, similar to C++ in its goal but with an (imo) more complex syntax and focus on OSX-specific capabilities. Basically, porting an Objective-C app on another OS is possible, but complicated. That's one of the reasons why it's not used much outside out of the apple world, along with the fact that most dev do not want to be dependent on anything Jobs says is right for his programming language.

Let's sum it up : you want to use a 64-bit processor, and you end up re-writing your whole app in a language that's only used in the Apple world. After some times, you finally get used to Objective C and can't get rid of it, so you've totally become an Apple minion.

More examples ? To develop an iPhone app without re-writing the SDK, you need a Mac and you need to use Objective C again. And just in case you would like to write a C/C++ version of the iPhone SDK, remember : your app has to be analyzed by Apple before it gets on the App store, and chances are that if they can't understand how it works, it won't be accepted.

The App Store itself is another example of Apple's philosophy of "control everything". There's nothing wrong with signed repositories as long as one does not absolutely depends on them in order to install some app. Otherwise, it's effectively a computery dictatorship.

And then there's the 40€ USB cable, the obligation of buying Apple hardware, the infamous iTunes system... Few companies get that amount of control on all their customers. It's not sane.

Reply Score: 4

RE: Why apple is evil
by Stratoukos on Thu 1st Apr 2010 11:30 UTC in reply to "Why apple is evil"
Stratoukos Member since:
2009-02-11

From the hundreds of reasons considering Apple as evil you chose "deprecating an older API"? Really?

And you don't need to rewrite your whole program in Objective-C. The logic of your application can be in C or C++. Only the parts that interact with the Cocoa Framework must be in Objective-C.

And if you don't want to do even that you can write your program in Java or use GTK+ or Qt. Or even use one of the countless bridges for other languages that are out there.

I agree with some of the other stuff you said, but saying that Apple is evil because they have their own Frameworks is ignorant at best.

Reply Score: 2

RE[2]: Why apple is evil
by nstuart on Thu 1st Apr 2010 13:37 UTC in reply to "RE: Why apple is evil"
nstuart Member since:
2005-07-06

Was going to say the same thing, "New at 11! Company does what it wants with it OWN PRODUCTS!! Something so evil has never been seen before!"

Seriously, if we go by these standards, KDE is far more evil in moving the KDE4 with all new APIs and very little backwards compatibility. And don't even mention MS moving from XP to Vista. Also don't forget about car companys who only put the latest fuel saving technologies in their newest model lineups! (had to have a car analogy in there somewhere)

Sorry, as above poster said new technologies is one of the dumbest reason you could state as to why Apple is evil.

Reply Score: 1

RE[3]: Why apple is evil
by Neolander on Thu 1st Apr 2010 14:05 UTC in reply to "RE[2]: Why apple is evil"
Neolander Member since:
2010-03-08

Was going to say the same thing, "New at 11! Company does what it wants with it OWN PRODUCTS!! Something so evil has never been seen before!" (...)

Old Apple saying based on exaggeration to avoid the real problem. To make a comparaison with everyday objects, making a new kind of drill, but making it incompatible with standard drill bits is not.

Sorry, as above poster said new technologies is one of the dumbest reason you could state as to why Apple is evil.

My problem is not about new technologies like Cocoa, but about making it Objective C-only. It's nothing new, it's just incompatible.

Reply Score: 1

RE: Why apple is evil
by Tony Swash on Thu 1st Apr 2010 14:23 UTC in reply to "Why apple is evil"
Tony Swash Member since:
2009-08-22

Like google, Apple are especially dangerous because they want to control everything, which is the most basic definition of a dictatorship.


I repeat - if you don't like their products don't buy them and if you don't like the software system they use on their platforms then don't code for them. In no market segment is Apple a monopoly so there is always an alternative. They control much of their technology to a greater degree than many competitors but that's the basis on which they make products (that happen to be selling like hot cakes). Other (less successful) companies have alternative strategies and alternative products - if you don't like Apple's then choose one of the alternatives and stop the hysterical whining - its demeaning.

Its like going ape shit because some band makes music you don't like - just don't listen to it. The fact that the band you don't like is actually insanely popular is probably irritating but it doesn't make them evil or (what a ridiculous description) "dangerous"

Reply Score: 2

Let's resume
by twitterfire on Thu 1st Apr 2010 14:51 UTC
twitterfire
Member since:
2008-09-11

1. You buy a a damn os, Os X, but you don't have the right to install it on the computer of your choice unless you purchase that computer from Apple.

2. You buy a damn mp3 player, iPod, but you are left at the mercy of Apple, drm and iTunes. If drm schemes will change in the future, you won't be able to listen to the songs you just bought today.

2. You buy a damn phone, iPhone, but you can not decide what apps you can install on it. Like you aren't the owner of the damn phone, but Apple is.

3. You write an app for iPhone but you are at the mercy of Apple who will see if your app get's on iPhone store, will see if you have priced the app too little or too much, will see if you don't break their business politics, see if you are not a competitor for their software. They may or may not allow your application to run on iPhone.

4. If you try to develop something for iPhone or Os X, you are locked on these damned platforms, as someone said earlier.

5. If you are a competitor and try to develop something better than Apple, you get sued in no time over some real or (often) imaginary patent claims

It's sad to say this, or even talk about Microsoft when it comes to rights or liberty, but comparing Apple to Microsoft in terms of freedom, it's like comparing North Korea to Switzerland.

Reply Score: 2

RE: Let's resume
by Tony Swash on Thu 1st Apr 2010 17:56 UTC in reply to "Let's resume"
Tony Swash Member since:
2009-08-22

1. You buy a a damn os, Os X, but you don't have the right to install it on the computer of your choice unless you purchase that computer from Apple.

2. You buy a damn mp3 player, iPod, but you are left at the mercy of Apple, drm and iTunes. If drm schemes will change in the future, you won't be able to listen to the songs you just bought today.

2. You buy a damn phone, iPhone, but you can not decide what apps you can install on it. Like you aren't the owner of the damn phone, but Apple is.

3. You write an app for iPhone but you are at the mercy of Apple who will see if your app get's on iPhone store, will see if you have priced the app too little or too much, will see if you don't break their business politics, see if you are not a competitor for their software. They may or may not allow your application to run on iPhone.

4. If you try to develop something for iPhone or Os X, you are locked on these damned platforms, as someone said earlier.

5. If you are a competitor and try to develop something better than Apple, you get sued in no time over some real or (often) imaginary patent claims

It's sad to say this, or even talk about Microsoft when it comes to rights or liberty, but comparing Apple to Microsoft in terms of freedom, it's like comparing North Korea to Switzerland.


OK - take a deep breath - relax - then repeat to yourself "buying Apple kit is not obligatory its a choice I make"

Nobody is locked into anything - people buy Apple kit because they really like the stuff that Apple makes.

Apple is unusual amongst technology companies in that they try very hard to control the whole technology stack that goes into a product. They do this because they want a degree of integrated design that goes way beyond what almost anyone else in the tech world strives for. That's their business model, it reflects Steve Job's view of how to do things and now its deeply wired into the DNA of the company and its not going to change.

Customers seem to really like the result of this approach as they queue in their millions to buy Apple products. Check out this latest survey of the satisfaction of smart phone users.

http://www.jdpower.com/Electronics/ratings/wireless-smartphone-rati...

What possible reason, given the success of their products and their financial results, would Apple have to change its approach? Certainly not some whining by a tiny, tiny bunch of marginal (in market terms) techies.

Given that buying Apple kit is wholly voluntary what possible harm does the Apple approach do? Don't like an iPod then buy a Zune, don't like the iPhone then buy a Blackberry or Android, don't like the iPad then buy a netbook, don't like MacOSX then use Windows or Linux - but please in God's name stop cluttering up forums like this with the incessant and nonsensical whining.

Reply Score: 1

RE: Let's resume
by Mellin on Thu 1st Apr 2010 22:24 UTC in reply to "Let's resume"
Mellin Member since:
2005-07-06

microsoft isn't better

i have to pay for microsoft windows when i buy a laptop even if i don't want windows (no i can't buy one with linux because none sell one and they even sell strong arm based netbooks with windows)

own standards (not invented here)

loves drm

+more

Reply Score: 2

Apple Slapped. Great news! But...
by vodoomoth on Thu 1st Apr 2010 15:42 UTC
vodoomoth
Member since:
2010-03-30

There's one bit of information lacking in the article and in my knowledge of the whole iPhone-related patent threats by Apple.

Does Apple hold a multitouch screen patent? If so, which seems impossible according to what I how about the "innovative" requirement for patents to be granted, what happens next?

Is that patent even filed?

If not, all those who've been threatened can rest assured that Apple can't sue them. But what about Elan suing them?

Reply Score: 1