Linked by Thom Holwerda on Thu 22nd Apr 2010 22:53 UTC
Games Yesterday Phoronix showed proof of Steam's Linux client existence via its Mac OS X launcher that is currently in closed beta, then this morning they showed further signs of Linux support. Since 2008 it was known that Steam and the Source Engine would come to Linux. As an update, they even pointed out the download link for the Steam Linux binary from their store.
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v Really?
by Almafeta on Thu 22nd Apr 2010 23:54 UTC
RE: Really?
by TechGeek on Fri 23rd Apr 2010 00:24 UTC in reply to "Really?"
TechGeek Member since:
2006-01-14

Well, more than .1% of computers run Linux. Many Linux users pay for other software. Many Windows users only use Windows because of the games. If the games are cross platform, what incentive is there to stay with Windows?

Reply Score: 7

RE[2]: Really?
by Bending Unit on Fri 23rd Apr 2010 05:24 UTC in reply to "RE: Really?"
Bending Unit Member since:
2005-07-06

If the games are cross platform, what incentive is there to stay with Windows?

Windows 7.

Reply Score: 6

RE[3]: Really?
by reduz on Fri 23rd Apr 2010 14:09 UTC in reply to "RE[2]: Really?"
reduz Member since:
2006-02-25

I was hoping a more serious answer, but i guess Microsoft deserves credit for creating an OS that can finally attract some fanboys.

Edited 2010-04-23 14:10 UTC

Reply Score: 8

RE[4]: Really?
by Zifre on Fri 23rd Apr 2010 20:15 UTC in reply to "RE[3]: Really?"
Zifre Member since:
2009-10-04

I was hoping a more serious answer, but i guess Microsoft deserves credit for creating an OS that can finally attract some fanboys.

Oh, there has always been fanboys. It's just that now those fanboys actually have reason for being fanboys.

(And this is from a near exclusive Linux user; Windows 7 simply is amazing.)

Reply Score: 3

RE[2]: Really?
by nt_jerkface on Fri 23rd Apr 2010 18:54 UTC in reply to "RE: Really?"
nt_jerkface Member since:
2009-08-26

Well, more than .1% of computers run Linux. Many Linux users pay for other software. Many Windows users only use Windows because of the games. If the games are cross platform, what incentive is there to stay with Windows?


Have you ever seen the game collection direct2drive has for the Mac? It has some great games but it isn't nearly as large as the library available for Windows, especially for new games. Given that Mac has at least 8x the marketshare of Linux there will be even less incentive for companies to port. At most it will be like the Mac where you have a lot of high selling casual games like The Sims being ported while missing some of the best pc games from recent years like Stalker.

If you want an alternative to Windows gaming then you should get a console. It's not as if Windows gaming is exactly healthy these days with so many games going straight to consoles.

Reply Score: 4

RE: Really?
by ciplogic on Fri 23rd Apr 2010 00:44 UTC in reply to "Really?"
ciplogic Member since:
2006-12-22

The big point is that if Steam is here, it will be a big player if not the single one on Linux. Is Linux 0.1%? Judging from: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pDc9I3z7ab4 (estimated 30 million users) may mean that it worth to jump here.

Reply Score: 5

RE: Really?
by orestes on Fri 23rd Apr 2010 00:58 UTC in reply to "Really?"
orestes Member since:
2005-07-06

I'm not so sure I agree on those last two points. This isn't the mid 90's server room anymore.

Reply Score: 5

RE: Really?
by mtzmtulivu on Fri 23rd Apr 2010 01:35 UTC in reply to "Really?"
mtzmtulivu Member since:
2006-11-14

So, they're trying to build market share in a demographic which (a) is less than 0.1% of the market, (b) is not known for buying software, and (c) generally opposes video games as childish?

Well, best of luck to them.

There is a big difference btw mind share and market share. Besides, code written "properly" can easily be ported to different systems.

This is a good PR move for them.

Reply Score: 7

RE: Really?
by WereCatf on Fri 23rd Apr 2010 01:54 UTC in reply to "Really?"
WereCatf Member since:
2006-02-15

So, they're trying to build market share in a demographic which (a) is less than 0.1% of the market, (b) is not known for buying software, and (c) generally opposes video games as childish?

I don't quite think your "0.1%" estimate is correct. If I had to say where you got it I'd guess an area called rectum.

As for not buying software..how do you know? Not every Linux user is a maniacal zealot, most of us are just normal users who buy their distros and whatever other software they might need, including games. I could just as well claim that Windows users don't buy software, they prefer to get unauthorized copies but then again I'd be talking out of my own rear-end.

And for the third thing: I have never heard or seen any Linux user call video games childish. Of course there are those too in every camp, but seeing as I have yet to see even one such comment over all the years of my own usage I doubt it's "generally."

EDIT: Thought to add that I too will most likely get Steam for Linux and start buying games there if any good ones come up and available for Linux. I find this a VERY positive move by Valve and I loved Half-Life 1. Never played part 2, but damn, I'll be among the first to buy it for Linux once it's there! :]

Edited 2010-04-23 01:58 UTC

Reply Score: 12

RE: Really?
by Quake on Fri 23rd Apr 2010 01:56 UTC in reply to "Really?"
Quake Member since:
2005-10-14

And your point is? the more platform they support, the more marketshare they'll have thus... money.

Reply Score: 5

RE: Really?
by darknexus on Fri 23rd Apr 2010 02:00 UTC in reply to "Really?"
darknexus Member since:
2008-07-15

So, they're trying to build market share in a demographic which (a) is less than 0.1% of the market

Evidence? Judging Linux's install figures is basically impossible since there are no market figures to go by. I think, in a way, they're counting on that.

(b) is not known for buying software

Perhaps that's because there's not much software to buy for most users? Most of the commercial software for Linux is oriented at the enterprise, and of course most home users will opt for a free solution when presented. Don't confuse the hard core FSF fanatics with the Linux community at large, though I admit they do seem to be the most vocal so it's understandable when this happens. Most of us will gladly buy software if it helps either our productivity or enjoyment, and have no qualms about doing so. There is room for both free and proprietary software in the world, despite what some would have us believe.

and (c) generally opposes video games as childish?

That's a new one. I've not seen many, except for some of the FSF crowd (not sure what the corolation is there but there does seem to be one), say this. More commonly, the response is that you should get a console if you want to game which actually does make a lot of sense when you consider the quality of games for PC vs console most of the time. Still, I know a lot of Linux users who keep Windows around for this one reason, so this attitude isn't as widespread as you seem to believe. See above about vocal users vs quiet ones.

Well, best of luck to them.

With this I agree, though I suspect the feelings behind the words are quite different. I genuinely wish them the best of luck with this. I'm not a hard core gamer, but the more competition we have in the platform and application space (and that includes games for those who play them) the better off we all are in the end. If Steam for Linux is successful, it will be proof to other game companies that Linux is worth their effort.

Reply Score: 6

RE: Really?
by diegoviola on Fri 23rd Apr 2010 02:23 UTC in reply to "Really?"
diegoviola Member since:
2006-08-15

So, they're trying to build market share in a demographic which (a) is less than 0.1% of the market, (b) is not known for buying software, and (c) generally opposes video games as childish?

Well, best of luck to them.


Really? Well, that's strange then, cause I'm a Linux user and I bought most of the id software games.

Edited 2010-04-23 02:28 UTC

Reply Score: 4

RE[2]: Really?
by gilboa on Fri 23rd Apr 2010 09:45 UTC in reply to "RE: Really?"
gilboa Member since:
2005-07-06

/+1.

In my case I bought:
Quake 3, Doom3, Quake 4 and ETQW.

For other vendors (LGP) I bought:
X2 and X3.

Not bad for someone that:
A. Doesn't buy software.
B. Think games are childish.

- Gilboa

Reply Score: 4

RE[2]: Really?
by ggeldenhuys on Fri 23rd Apr 2010 12:40 UTC in reply to "RE: Really?"
ggeldenhuys Member since:
2006-11-13

Yeah, I have to agree. I bought Sim City 3000 and Heroes of Might and Magic for Linux. Oh, I bought Nero for Linux and Borland Kylix Professional v3 too.

Oops, am I now in trouble because I bought some Linux software! Please dude (original poster), don't generalize like that.

As for the 0.1% Linux users. I think that is TOTAL CRAP. There is simply NO way to count the amount of Linux users out there, so the 0.1% is simply an uneducated guess - and a very bad one at that. Linux may be downloaded, copied, shared, installed on 1000's of PC's without payment, without notifying any vendor or OEM etc via some stupid activation key. You simply cannot count the "sales" of Linux like you can for Mac or Windows.

Edited 2010-04-23 12:43 UTC

Reply Score: 3

RE: Really?
by n0xx on Fri 23rd Apr 2010 03:36 UTC in reply to "Really?"
n0xx Member since:
2005-07-12

(a)
Care to show us some accurate figures?

(b)
Last time I checked, there was no Linux version of Adobe CS/MS Office/etc. It's hard to buy commercial software for Linux if there's no such thing. Well... at least not the software that most of us need/use.

(c.1)
http://www.dnsstuff.com/tools/whois/?tool_id=66&token=&toolhandler_...

Domain ID:D2238246-LROR
Domain Name:HAPPYPENGUIN.ORG
Created On:21-Oct-1998 04:00:00 UTC


(c.2)
http://www.networksolutions.com/whois-search/linuxgames.com

Record created on 26-Mar-1998

(c.3)
From Wikipedia:

"In 1996, there was a port of Quake to Linux."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quake_%28video_game%29



As you can see, the Linux gaming community has been organized since 1998, at least, and it's been around for some time now.

I think i recall zophar.net hosting emulators for Linux since day one, back in 1996.

Quake, ID's famous fps was the, AFAIK, the first commercial game for Linux, back in 1996. Throughout the years, ID has consciously chosen to use OpenGL as their API of choice, specifically for portability reasons.

There would probably be a vibrant Linux gaming community now days if MS hadn't marketed DX as the next best thing since sliced bread. (and, truth be told, OpenGL was more mature and easy to handle).

So no, we don't think gaming is childish. Everybody likes to murder virtual prostitutes once in a while. ;)

Fun fact: I recently found that WoW has superior network performance (lower pings overall) while running on under Wine. True story.

Reply Score: 4

RE[2]: Really?
by WereCatf on Fri 23rd Apr 2010 04:24 UTC in reply to "RE: Really?"
WereCatf Member since:
2006-02-15

Fun fact: I recently found that WoW has superior network performance (lower pings overall) while running on under Wine. True story.

You're not the only one. I have about 65ms latency in WoW under Linux+Wine whereas under Windows it's at about 180ms. No idea why, I have applied all the common networking performance enhancing tips and all.

Unfortunately WoW is really crashy on my PC under Linux, probably due to ATi graphics :<

Reply Score: 2

RE[2]: Really?
by aaronb on Fri 23rd Apr 2010 17:32 UTC in reply to "RE: Really?"
aaronb Member since:
2005-07-06

I have also noticed the same on counter strike source and Nexuiz with regards to ping.

Reply Score: 3

RE: Really?
by toast88 on Fri 23rd Apr 2010 06:16 UTC in reply to "Really?"
toast88 Member since:
2009-09-23

So, they're trying to build market share in a demographic which (a) is less than 0.1% of the market, (b) is not known for buying software, and (c) generally opposes video games as childish?

(a) I don't see where you get that from but the point simply is that unlike Windows and MacOS, Linux installations usually don't report back to some manufacturer so that they can be counted. Since Linux is and ever will be free, you can install it on dozens of machines without anyone ever knowing. So, please stop using that stupid market share argument. Further, *if* it was only 0.1%, why the heck do you think do companies like Intel, Oracle, IBM, Google, Microsoft (YES, even them), nVidia, AMD, Google, DELL, Samsung, Sony, (I'm getting tired here, it's way too many, just check the kernel commit log), pay people to work on an operating system which has only 0.1% share?!?! Nearly every freaking DSL router in the world runs Linux.

(b) Yeah, right. And the 15,000 Euros the physics department here pays for the Mathematica for Linux licences are just vapor ware. And, guess what, we also didn't pay the 5000 Euros for Matlab for Linux, too. Even though it might not fit in your current view of the world, Linux has way more significance than you'd ever imagine. Trust me, those guys who develop Steam certainly know way better than you and I'm very tranquillized, that most developers and companies don't listen to what "experts" like you claim what's worth developing software for and what's not.

(c) Yeah, true. You know what, I probably have seen, owned and played more exotic video games and consoles you've ever seen in your life.

To say it more shortly, (b) and (c) are just stupid prejudices and over-simplifications. You should get used to the fact that the world is not white and black but colorful. Ever heard of diversification?

Adrian

Reply Score: 3

RE: Really?
by Karitku on Fri 23rd Apr 2010 07:06 UTC in reply to "Really?"
Karitku Member since:
2006-01-12

So, they're trying to build market share in a demographic which (a) is less than 0.1% of the market, (b) is not known for buying software, and (c) generally opposes video games as childish? Well, best of luck to them.

Yes but they aren't bring all steam games so it's bit like saying Rolling Stones is coming to festival when only there drummer guy is coming. But I give them credit for nice advertising, think how hard and expensive it is to get ad on almost every tech news site.

Reply Score: 3

RE[2]: Really?
by WereCatf on Fri 23rd Apr 2010 08:14 UTC in reply to "RE: Really?"
WereCatf Member since:
2006-02-15

so it's bit like saying Rolling Stones is coming to festival when only there drummer guy is coming

Not really... Even though not all of the games will be ported the ones being ported are fully playable and enjoyable, so you will still be able to fully enjoy a gaming experience on Linux.

As such, to use your music festival analogy it'd be like some of the available bands showing up, not all of them. You'd still get to enjoy the ones there perfectly fine.

Reply Score: 3

RE: Really?
by ricegf on Fri 23rd Apr 2010 12:51 UTC in reply to "Really?"
ricegf Member since:
2007-04-25

"less than 0.1% of the market"

Even the most slavish of Microsoft cheerleaders (that would be NetApplications) doesn't claim such a ridiculously low figure.

Most analysts agree that Microsoft Windows holds about 91% of the desktop and laptop market, excluding netbooks. Microsoft projects that 5% of the market is held by Linux and 4% by Apple.[1]

Gartner agrees with the first but swaps those last two, giving Linux 4% and Apple 5%.[2] These numbers are supported by estimated user counts, as well.[3]

NetApplications uses web browsing habits to agree with Gartner on Windows and Mac share, but gives Linux just north of 1% (perhaps Linux users are busier hacking than browsing mindless websites?);[4] that this methodology is flawed for determining installed share is evident from a similar analysis for smartphones, which gives a *very* wrong answer for a market where shares are fairly well understood.[5]

So at best, you're only off by 1000%, at worst 5000%. Thanks for playing.

[1] http://www.osnews.com/story/21035/Ballmer_Linux_Bigger_Competitor_t...
[2] http://www.linuxloop.com/2008/08/14/linuxs-market-share-is-there-an...
[3] http://www.linuxplanet.com/linuxplanet/reports/7032/1/
[4] http://marketshare.hitslink.com/report.aspx?qprid=8
[5] http://techcrunch.com/2009/11/23/apple-and-android-now-make-up-75-p...

Reply Score: 5

RE: Really?
by Soulbender on Fri 23rd Apr 2010 12:55 UTC in reply to "Really?"
Soulbender Member since:
2005-08-18

This is about Linux, not Mac's.

Reply Score: 2

RE: Really?
by mpxlbs on Fri 23rd Apr 2010 12:57 UTC in reply to "Really?"
mpxlbs Member since:
2009-01-25

I'm a linux user and have been since 1999.
Currently I own 142 games on steam, on which most of them are big game titles.

I'm also a console collector and I love video games.
I also like to buy stuff, donate stuff/money to support software development and other things going on in this world.

Even though I love open source I understand that some has this as their full time job and that they need food on the table and this is the only way to get it.

I, for one, would ditch windows completely if Steam enters Linux.
Steam is the ONLY reason I'm still in windows.

With that said, your post is oh-so-wrong ;)

Reply Score: 2

RE[2]: Really?
by JAlexoid on Fri 23rd Apr 2010 15:42 UTC in reply to "RE: Really?"
JAlexoid Member since:
2009-05-19

+1 Steam is the only reason I use Windows

Reply Score: 2

RE: Really?
by Laurence on Fri 23rd Apr 2010 15:16 UTC in reply to "Really?"
Laurence Member since:
2007-03-26

So, they're trying to build market share in a demographic which (a) is less than 0.1% of the market, (b) is not known for buying software, and (c) generally opposes video games as childish?

Well, best of luck to them.


a/ Linux isn't less than 1% of the market let alone less than 0.1% as you stated. Add to that, the fact that even 1% of hundreds of millions is still millions.

b/ yet perversely piracy ratios are significantly lower than on Windows. So who's to say that there isn't a market for commercial games after all?

c/ Seeming as we're making completely unfounded sweeping generalisations based on what OS people run, I heard Windows users are generally blue skinned and OS X users have 3 eyes.

Reply Score: 5

RE[2]: Really?
by bert64 on Sun 25th Apr 2010 23:25 UTC in reply to "RE: Really?"
bert64 Member since:
2007-04-23

Piracy rates on Linux are lower because not only is there less to pirate, but someone who has installed linux is also typically willing to look for alternative applications to do what they need - and in most cases, there are free apps available.

I know a lot of windows users who are completely unwilling to try any alternatives to the established products, for instance i know people who use photoshop (usually pirated) for extremely trivial tasks like resizing or cropping photos.

Reply Score: 2

RE[3]: Really?
by Laurence on Mon 26th Apr 2010 09:10 UTC in reply to "RE[2]: Really?"
Laurence Member since:
2007-03-26

Piracy rates on Linux are lower because not only is there less to pirate, but someone who has installed linux is also typically willing to look for alternative applications to do what they need - and in most cases, there are free apps available.

I know a lot of windows users who are completely unwilling to try any alternatives to the established products, for instance i know people who use photoshop (usually pirated) for extremely trivial tasks like resizing or cropping photos.


Yeah, I'm aware of that.

I was making the point that the earlier comment - about how Linux users are unwilling to pay for software because Linux software is free - was twisting observable evidence to form an unfounded conclusion. Thus to illustrate how weak his argument was, I used the same observation he used to counter his own argument (ie Fewer people might pay for Linux software, but fewer people pirate Linux software too - so his argument is moot).

Sorry for not making that clearer in my initial post.

Reply Score: 2

RE: Really?
by JAlexoid on Fri 23rd Apr 2010 15:41 UTC in reply to "Really?"
JAlexoid Member since:
2009-05-19

So, they're trying to build market share in a demographic which (a) is less than 0.1% of the market, (b) is not known for buying software, and (c) generally opposes video games as childish?

Well, best of luck to them.


Really? Out of all of my friends and acquaintances I, the Linux user, is the only one that has:
A) A valid Windows XP license (Other MS fanfoys use pirated versions of Windows)
B) Actually buy my games (others just download them)
C) Have to reduce the market share perception of gamers, by dual booting Windows (That frankly crashes too often for me)

Reply Score: 5

games on pc?
by stabbyjones on Fri 23rd Apr 2010 00:00 UTC
stabbyjones
Member since:
2008-04-15

That might actually convince me to buy something other than hard drives for my computer.

It's been years since I bought a pc game but steam on linux would be a great incentive to pony up for new hardware and put down the xbox.

Edited 2010-04-23 00:05 UTC

Reply Score: 2

DirectX Games
by Feanor on Fri 23rd Apr 2010 00:35 UTC
Feanor
Member since:
2006-12-21

What about all the games that use DirectX as a Graphics API? How is DirectX in Wine now? Will DirectX games in Steam integrate with Wine?

Reply Score: 3

RE: DirectX Games
by Cody Evans on Fri 23rd Apr 2010 00:48 UTC in reply to "DirectX Games"
Cody Evans Member since:
2009-08-14

Source engine supports OpenGL.

It was announced with their when they unveiled their plans for a Steam Mac client a few months ago.

Reply Score: 4

RE[2]: DirectX Games
by bousozoku on Fri 23rd Apr 2010 02:20 UTC in reply to "RE: DirectX Games"
bousozoku Member since:
2006-01-23

Source engine supports OpenGL.

It was announced with their when they unveiled their plans for a Steam Mac client a few months ago.


Hopefully, the games will work properly on both Mac OS X and Linux platforms.

I'd certainly be more willing to spend money on games if I wasn't paying for operating system upgrades.

I deleted my Windows partition recently and gave up two games (UT3 and Quake 4), even though I don't know if they're available or not. In any case, I'd rather support Linux to get more games since that's a big factor in keeping Windows desirable.

Reply Score: 1

RE[3]: DirectX Games
by DrillSgt on Fri 23rd Apr 2010 02:51 UTC in reply to "RE[2]: DirectX Games"
DrillSgt Member since:
2005-12-02

I deleted my Windows partition recently and gave up two games (UT3 and Quake 4), even though I don't know if they're available or not. In any case, I'd rather support Linux to get more games since that's a big factor in keeping Windows desirable.


Both UT3 and Quake 4 have native Linux binaries. In fact, the Linux installer is on the UT3 CD set, the last CD if I remember correctly.

Reply Score: 3

RE[4]: DirectX Games
by ZacharyM on Fri 23rd Apr 2010 12:36 UTC in reply to "RE[3]: DirectX Games"
ZacharyM Member since:
2007-05-28

You are correct in stating that Quake 4 is available for Linux, but UT3 although had been working under Linux was not released due to http://www.phoronix.com/vr.php?view=11496">legal .

Reply Score: 1

RE[5]: DirectX Games
by DrillSgt on Fri 23rd Apr 2010 15:04 UTC in reply to "RE[4]: DirectX Games"
DrillSgt Member since:
2005-12-02

You are correct in stating that Quake 4 is available for Linux, but UT3 although had been working under Linux was not released due to legal reasons.


Oops, my bad. The CD set I was thinking of was UT 2K3. That one has the installer.

Reply Score: 2

RE[3]: DirectX Games
by gilboa on Fri 23rd Apr 2010 11:34 UTC in reply to "RE[2]: DirectX Games"
gilboa Member since:
2005-07-06

I deleted my Windows partition recently and gave up two games (UT3 and Quake 4), even though I don't know if they're available or not. In any case, I'd rather support Linux to get more games since that's a big factor in keeping Windows desirable.


Quake 4 has a fully working native version [1] that should (at least on nVidia hardware) perform just as well (or even somewhat better) than Windows XP. If you are using a distribution with pulseaudio, you may need to mock about with the Quake4 configuration to get full surround sound. (Quake4 was ported long before pulse came to the world).

As for UT3, AFAIK UT3 had a working Linux port since day one, but the binary was never released to the general public due to some unknown (legal?) reason. [2]

- Gilboa
[1] http://zerowing.idsoftware.com/linux/quake4/
[2] http://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=news_item&px=NzI4Mg

Reply Score: 2

Steam
by Cody Evans on Fri 23rd Apr 2010 00:46 UTC
Cody Evans
Member since:
2009-08-14

F@%K YEAH! I hope this is true. Steam games are the ONLY reason why I still have a windows partition on my computer! If steam + source games are available for Linux... I will immediately format my windows partition after copying saves & mods.

Reply Score: 2

I am not a gamer, but
by Elv13 on Fri 23rd Apr 2010 01:12 UTC
Elv13
Member since:
2006-06-12

I will buy the Orange Box the day the steam client will come to Linux. Not because I am an hard core gamer, but because I think this is a critical step for Linux. I have spend a lot of time in gamer forums some years ago to push Linux in the teen/young adult market (before I gave up). They were all interested, as beryl/compiz was a much better interface for them than winXP, but they wanted native versions of their games. Now, if the number one game provider (provider, not producer) come to Linux, this is a great and credible new argument to push those who want Linux, but fear to lose their past-time to switch.

Reply Score: 6

RE: I am not a gamer, but
by JAlexoid on Fri 23rd Apr 2010 15:46 UTC in reply to "I am not a gamer, but"
JAlexoid Member since:
2009-05-19

I will probably just buy 3. One for me and two for my friends, with a condition that those would be run on Linux :-D

Reply Score: 2

jack_perry
Member since:
2005-07-06

...is any explanation of what Steam is. Thanks, guys.

Apparently it has something to do with gaming, but I'm not in the know, and no one's telling. Googling "steam" is unlikely to help.

Reply Score: 6

Bill Shooter of Bul Member since:
2006-07-14

You sir, are my hero. I would never forgive myself if I were the one to damage your hard fought ignorance of gaming. You're better than us.

Reply Score: 2

Elv13 Member since:
2006-06-12

Steam is an "app store" that predate the apple one by almost a decade. It is the number one PC game distribution system, often beating retail store. Valve, the owner of Steam is also a legendary game producer with the reputation of having immortal games. Steam is open to third party game producer too, but those games are unlikely to be available in Linux soon. Valves own title, however, might very well be native soon. Half life, Counterstrike, Team fortress and life4dead are the most popular titles that might come soon to Linux. They will join iconic games franchise like Doom, Quake and Unreal (but not the latest one, the Linux port was dropped).

With those games running native, Linux will have a really strong lineup of hard core Geek title. Even if other publisher, such as EA, Activision Blizzard and Ubisoft does not port games to Linux, we will still have a lot of valuable titles.

Reply Score: 6

chris_l Member since:
2010-02-14

Steam is an "app store" that predate the apple one by almost a decade. It is the number one PC game distribution system, often beating retail store. Valve, the owner of Steam is also a legendary game producer with the reputation of having immortal games. Steam is open to third party game producer too, but those games are unlikely to be available in Linux soon. Valves own title, however, might very well be native soon. Half life, Counterstrike, Team fortress and life4dead are the most popular titles that might come soon to Linux. They will join iconic games franchise like Doom, Quake and Unreal (but not the latest one, the Linux port was dropped).

With those games running native, Linux will have a really strong lineup of hard core Geek title. Even if other publisher, such as EA, Activision Blizzard and Ubisoft does not port games to Linux, we will still have a lot of valuable titles.



Sorry dude, but FPS titles like the crap you just mentioned won't be a reason to install Steam on Linux.

Personally, I can't stand Half life, Counterstrike, Team fortress and have no desire to play them under any OS.

Reply Score: 1

hornett Member since:
2005-09-19

In fact searching for 'steam' in Google brings up the associated homepage as the first result; with the following subtitle:

Delivers a range of games straight to a computer's desktop. Includes automatic updates, lists of games and prices, posters, plus access to a large gaming ...

Reply Score: 1

steogede2 Member since:
2007-08-17

...is any explanation of what Steam is. Thanks, guys.

Apparently it has something to do with gaming, but I'm not in the know, and no one's telling. Googling "steam" is unlikely to help.


http://www.lmgtfy.com?q=steam - take a look at the first result. Reading the original article may help too.

Reply Score: 1

Steam
by Xaero_Vincent on Fri 23rd Apr 2010 01:53 UTC
Xaero_Vincent
Member since:
2006-08-18

Steam is just a game distribution platform.

Whats the point if there are no games that can be bought that are Linux compatible? A native client won't be compatible with Wine games unless their added as non-steam game launchers.

In this scenario Steam would be nothing but a program manager for Linux games that have no run-time integration.

Edited 2010-04-23 01:54 UTC

Reply Score: 2

RE: Steam
by Quake on Fri 23rd Apr 2010 02:32 UTC in reply to "Steam"
Quake Member since:
2005-10-14

My opinion is that Valve games will run in Linux when the Steam client is released.

Same thing is happening is OS X. The Valve OS X games will be released when Steam is.

Reply Score: 2

RE: Steam
by merkoth on Fri 23rd Apr 2010 03:18 UTC in reply to "Steam"
merkoth Member since:
2006-09-22

There are quite a few indie games being released on multiple platforms including Linux. Right now, every single one features its own distribution system and installation medium. It's kind of a mess.

Steam would be able to mitigate those issues by offering a standard platform for game developers to target.

Reply Score: 3

RE: Steam
by orestes on Fri 23rd Apr 2010 03:29 UTC in reply to "Steam"
orestes Member since:
2005-07-06

Process has to start somewhere. Even if most of the initial Steam OS X and Linux offerings are customized Wine setups, it's a chance to generate developer interest in the market and a it's a well trusted name in distribution for people from the Windows side to look to.

Reply Score: 2

RE: Steam
by MORB on Fri 23rd Apr 2010 08:14 UTC in reply to "Steam"
MORB Member since:
2005-07-06

There is some string implication here that the source engine will be ported on linux too, which should be little extra work over the announced macos port.

In turn, it means that valve is going to provide linux versions of all their games: the half-life series, counter-strike, portal, TF2, Left for Dead.

In addition, it means that third parties developers using sources will be able to release linux versions of their game.

Also it generally provides the option for third party developers using steam to release macos and linux version of their games.

All in all having the biggest PC game distribution platform coming to linux is a good thing. It won't turn linux into a successful gaming platform overnight but it makes it possible to happen at all.

Reply Score: 2

RE[2]: Steam
by mkools on Fri 23rd Apr 2010 09:33 UTC in reply to "RE: Steam"
mkools Member since:
2005-10-11

If that's true, Linux version of Left 4 Dead, Half-life etc. then I'm ditching Windows 7 I can tell you that ;)

Reply Score: 2

RE: Steam
by JAlexoid on Fri 23rd Apr 2010 20:37 UTC in reply to "Steam"
JAlexoid Member since:
2009-05-19

Steam is just a game distribution platform.

Whats the point if there are no games that can be bought that are Linux compatible? A native client won't be compatible with Wine games unless their added as non-steam game launchers.

In this scenario Steam would be nothing but a program manager for Linux games that have no run-time integration.

They will probably port their Source engine onto Mac and Linux. And since both require OpenGL porting, there is very little else to do.
Mac developers should correct me if I'm wrong, but biggest problem is for applications that use native UI widgets(GTK vs Cocoa). Applications that require little UI widget usage provided by OS/platform and are mainly OpenGL are mostly portable between Win, Linux and Mac.

Reply Score: 2

RE[2]: Steam
by bert64 on Sun 25th Apr 2010 23:32 UTC in reply to "RE: Steam"
bert64 Member since:
2007-04-23

It's actually extremely rare for games to use widgets provided by the os, most render their own custom interfaces directly (ie using opengl) and so would be very easily portable between osx/linux.

Reply Score: 2

It could be for testing
by nt_jerkface on Fri 23rd Apr 2010 03:25 UTC
nt_jerkface
Member since:
2009-08-26

they may have an internal version of Linux that is similar in structure to OS X. Some companies will focus development on custom Linux VMs instead of Apple machines to reduce costs. Remember that it isn't legal to virtualize OS X on non-Apple hardware.

But Steam in Linux is possible especially if they only target Ubuntu but you really have to ask if it is worth the effort since games will have to be ported as well. How many Linux users already play Valve games in Windows or on the Xbox? Proprietary development is already sketchy enough in Linux and anything related to 3D or sound just compounds the problem.

I have to wonder if Gabe is pissed off at MS for ignoring pc gaming. MS would like all developers to move to consoles which cuts into Valve's profits. Even if the finances aren't there Gabe might support Linux to make a statement.

Reply Score: 4

64bit
by garf on Fri 23rd Apr 2010 03:55 UTC
garf
Member since:
2009-01-02

What are the chances of it being able to run in 64 bit linux distros?

Reply Score: 1

RE: 64bit
by Zifre on Fri 23rd Apr 2010 11:14 UTC in reply to "64bit"
Zifre Member since:
2009-10-04

What are the chances of it being able to run in 64 bit linux distros?

It'll run, just probably not in 64 bit mode.

Reply Score: 2

RE: 64bit
by bert64 on Sun 25th Apr 2010 23:36 UTC in reply to "64bit"
bert64 Member since:
2007-04-23

Why not?
64bit linux is way ahead of 64bit windows and always has been, i would venture that most linux users with 64bit capable hardware are running 64bit versions and the vast majority of applications have been available as native 64bit apps for many years.

I would imagine that most people running linux on hardware capable of running modern games will be running 64bit versions anyway. If anything, it is 32bit that will be left out.

Reply Score: 2

Tremendous demand
by 3rdalbum on Fri 23rd Apr 2010 04:18 UTC
3rdalbum
Member since:
2008-05-26

I'm sure the Steam servers would crash the first day there are big-name games available on it for Linux.

Reply Score: 2

Almost there...
by jaklumen on Fri 23rd Apr 2010 05:26 UTC
jaklumen
Member since:
2010-02-09

Just a little further... just a little further...

...and please, give us more games that are not FPS to balance out the glut of them that is much of Linux gaming right now.

Reply Score: 4

RE: Almost there...
by Tuxie on Fri 23rd Apr 2010 14:14 UTC in reply to "Almost there..."
Tuxie Member since:
2009-04-22

I fully agree. FPS games are usually boring, I very much prefer adventure (Monkey Island...), action-adventure (Zelda, Uncharted, Assassin's Creed, etc) and GTA-style (Saint's Row 2 was fantastic!) games over "run around and shoot" games.

Reply Score: 2

Instant availability
by zegenie on Fri 23rd Apr 2010 06:13 UTC
zegenie
Member since:
2005-12-31

Another thing that is kind of overlooked is that when they (recently) launched Steam for the Mac platform - all your previously bought games that were compatible were instantly available to you as downloads on the Mac. That means if you bought Halflife 2 on Windows Steam, you can download it on your Mac Steam as well, with no extra cost.

Now - if they only wanted the money, they could've easily just made you buy the game twice. I think that shows some real goodwill.

Reply Score: 9

RE: Instant availability
by bert64 on Sun 25th Apr 2010 23:38 UTC in reply to "Instant availability"
bert64 Member since:
2007-04-23

Quite a few people use linux or mac for day to day tasks, and windows for games... It will be interesting to see if valve keep stats of such people, and see if they start using windows less as a result.

Reply Score: 2

I doubt it.
by gilboa on Fri 23rd Apr 2010 12:06 UTC
gilboa
Member since:
2005-07-06

Even though the Source engine (used in HL2, CS:2 TF2 and some other games) is capable of using OpenGL instead of DirectX, Valve will most likely port Steam UI as method of distributing Linux servers (which account to a large portion of the install based). I doubt that they will go the extra mile and port the client games to Linux (even though a MAC -> Linux port is fairly strait forward).

Though, hopefully I'm wrong. (I've got a number of Steam games that I have played in ages, since I dismantled my Windows XP machine)

- Gilboa

Reply Score: 2

That's a lot of bullshit
by twitterfire on Fri 23rd Apr 2010 15:32 UTC
twitterfire
Member since:
2008-09-11

1. Steam is not coming to Linux. The so called "proofs" on phoronix site doesn't prove anything beside phoronix guys being noobs when it comes to software developing.

Spotting some string related to Linux in some Os X binaries and claiming that Steam is coming to Linux is lame. Those strings are in Os X binaries for the sole reason that some libraries that Steam client is linked against are present in both Os X and Linux.

I'll believe that Steam is comming to linux when I'll see the linux client or when Valve says it so.

2. Even if Steam is comming to linux, that isn't going to do anyone any good. Steam on linux means Valve's own and old games ported to linux and the rest of games running emulated with wine.

Half life is old and I don't see the reason why the people who finished it in 2004 will play it again in 2010.

The rest of games on Steam will still use DirectX and will still need to be emulated with wine.

Anyone can use wine emulation right now, with or without Steam. No need for Steam to run an emulated Windows game.

Gaming on Os X sucks. I tried it. Almost all games aren't native, instead they run emulated with cider. There's a huge performance difference between a native game and an emulated game.

If you don't believe me, try running native Doom 3 for linux and compare it with windows binary executed under wine.

3. Linux as a gaming platform is a mess. Try and run any game ported by Loki on any present day linux distro and tell me if you succeed.

Reply Score: 1

RE: That's a lot of bullshit
by ichi on Fri 23rd Apr 2010 18:15 UTC in reply to "That's a lot of bullshit"
ichi Member since:
2007-03-06

3. Linux as a gaming platform is a mess. Try and run any game ported by Loki on any present day linux distro and tell me if you succeed.


Try running some old windows games on current windows OSes and tell me the same.
System Shock 2 was such a pain I had more success trying to run it on wine than on windows (and it still wasn't that playable either).

Reply Score: 5

RE[2]: That's a lot of bullshit
by No it isnt on Sat 24th Apr 2010 00:20 UTC in reply to "RE: That's a lot of bullshit"
No it isnt Member since:
2005-11-14

Besides, many of the old Loki games actually do work just fine, even on 64 bit Linux. Quake 3, Unreal Tournament, Enemy Territory (probably not a Loki port).

Reply Score: 2

RE: That's a lot of bullshit
by Fettarme H-Milch on Fri 23rd Apr 2010 19:32 UTC in reply to "That's a lot of bullshit"
Fettarme H-Milch Member since:
2010-02-16

1. Steam is not coming to Linux. The so called "proofs" on phoronix site doesn't prove anything beside phoronix guys being noobs when it comes to software developing.

Spotting some string related to Linux in some Os X binaries and claiming that Steam is coming to Linux is lame. Those strings are in Os X binaries for the sole reason that some libraries that Steam client is linked against are present in both Os X and Linux.

Your such a genius. Obviously "steamclient.so" is present in both OSX and Linux. Ubuntu ships it by default.
And http://store.steampowered.com/public/client/steam_client_linux is obviously also not any clue at all for a Linux client of Steam....


/sarcasm

Reply Score: 2

RE[2]: That's a lot of bullshit
by nt_jerkface on Fri 23rd Apr 2010 23:38 UTC in reply to "RE: That's a lot of bullshit"
nt_jerkface Member since:
2009-08-26

But that still isn't proof that they plan on releasing a Linux client anytime soon. They could just be working on it much like MS is rumored to be working on an ARM version of Windows in case it gets popular on netbooks.

They could also be experimenting with Linux and haven't made a decision yet as to whether they want to support it at this time.

I wouldn't get excited unless Valve makes an announcement. Software companies will sometimes hire a developer to investigate the viability of a market. It may just be for internal use, it may be coming out in less than a year. We don't know at this point.

Reply Score: 2

Fettarme H-Milch Member since:
2010-02-16

But that still isn't proof that they plan on releasing a Linux client anytime soon.

Who talks about "soon"? It's proof that Valve has a Linux client.
Nobody (of Phoronix at least) is seeing this as any indication for a release timeframe.

Reply Score: 2

RE[4]: That's a lot of bullshit
by nt_jerkface on Sat 24th Apr 2010 18:29 UTC in reply to "RE[3]: That's a lot of bullshit"
nt_jerkface Member since:
2009-08-26

From the article:
I am 100% confident that the Steam client / Source engine are coming to Linux. If my information is correct, an official announcement regarding this Linux support may be here by this June.

Reply Score: 2

Fettarme H-Milch Member since:
2010-02-16

From the article:
I am 100% confident that the Steam client / Source engine are coming to Linux. If my information is correct, an official announcement regarding this Linux support may be here by this June.

May I point you to the word "this" in my previous posing? I was solely referring to the existence of "steamclient.so". And the existence itself points to no timeframe.
The author got his announcement time info from an independent source and didn't draw the conclusion "steamclient.so is here. That means that a public Linux release is just around the corner."

Reply Score: 2

RE[6]: That's a lot of bullshit
by nt_jerkface on Mon 26th Apr 2010 02:09 UTC in reply to "RE[5]: That's a lot of bullshit"
nt_jerkface Member since:
2009-08-26

The author bases his conclusion on his source and the files:
However, from seeing these actual files to the other proof and the information from sources, I am 100% confident that the Steam client / Source engine are coming to Linux.

It's a faulty conclusion. He should have just stated that he is highly optimistic.

Reply Score: 2

Steam has some potential linux games.
by routitz on Fri 23rd Apr 2010 16:40 UTC
routitz
Member since:
2010-04-23

There are some Indie games which offer linux binaries on their own websites. The number is not that big but neither negligible by any means. Some of them are pretty good ones.

I have already 2 games in steam which offer linux binaries, and am waiting for an game being developed which will offer linux binary for sure.

Steam for linux will never mean "nothing" although we cannot expect all of binaries for MS_windows usable.

Reply Score: 2

Steam, Smoke, Hot Air . . .
by El_Exigente on Sat 24th Apr 2010 06:49 UTC
El_Exigente
Member since:
2007-01-08

First, if Steam comes to Linux, what are Linux users going to do about graphics cards and drivers. I think that Nvidia has Linux drivers, and I think that ATI hasn't, but I am not sure. Even if there are drivers, how good are they?

The other point is quite humourous. Steam is a profoundly anti-user, rights-restricting technology. You buy your game either digitally via a download, or as a physical product (dvd, cd, etc). In order to play that game, you must register it to your Steam account. Once it is registered to your Steam account, it stays registered to your Steam account and can not be transferred or unregistered. So, let us say that you buy some new and well-hyped-up game for $60. You install it and you find yourself disappointed to such a degree that you want to sell it. You can't. Or, you have a game, you play it, and, eventually, you tire of it, and you want to sell it. You can't. Or let us say you have a large collection of games that you used to, but no longer play, and which, collectively, represent a large cash investment. You decide that you would like to sell them. You can't. Steam has found what must be the Holy Grail of software developers: a way to completely eliminate any market for second-hand games! You might have the legal right to sell your unwanted movies in videotape or dvd format, and your books, and records and cds, but your games? Not anymore!

Or, to look at this from the other side: Perhaps you can not afford to spend $60 on a game. Or even $30 or $25. Do you want to save some money by buying a second-hand copy on eBay? Sorry, not allowed! If you can't pay the full retail tariff, you are out of luck. Or, if you sometimes partially defrayed the cost of your new games by selling your old games, you are also out of luck.

Selling and/or transferring of game licenses is prohibited. Selling and/or transferring of Steam accounts is prohibited. Each account must be tied to an email address. Needless to say, Steam is fully aware of any email addresses used for multiple Steam accounts. If you attempt to open a new account with an email address that Steam already has on file, it will inform you of the fact. (One other game service, possibly EA, recently changed from accounts based on screen names, to accounts based on email addresses. Steam could do that too. In fact, as doing so would only be "tightening the screws" I would have to expect them to do so.)
Steam is a *deeply* draconian drm technology.

It is interesting to see how many users of Linux, the OS made for people who [sarcasm] cherish freedom [/sarcasm], seem to think that Steam would be a great addition to their platformm even as it erodes what many thought were the rights of the consumer/end-user.

Similarly, it is interesting to see how many users of Linux, the platform which was supposedly meant to bring computing to the masses, seem to think that Steam, which helps maintain the high price of video games by making impossible the existence of a market for second-hand games, is a great addition to their platform.

Reply Score: 1

RE: Steam, Smoke, Hot Air . . .
by torturedutopian on Sat 24th Apr 2010 10:06 UTC in reply to "Steam, Smoke, Hot Air . . ."
torturedutopian Member since:
2010-04-24

Oh thank you, I was flabbergasted no one raised this point.

I really definitely prefer supporting developers directly (there are a few good independant games released for Linux each year).

Maybe there could be some special community powered repositories to distribute them at prices specified by the developers with a low fee that would just be enough to cover the servers costs (?). Wonder what will befall of Ubuntu One.

Reply Score: 1

RE: Steam, Smoke, Hot Air . . .
by steogede2 on Sat 24th Apr 2010 10:52 UTC in reply to "Steam, Smoke, Hot Air . . ."
steogede2 Member since:
2007-08-17

El_Exigente, I think you made some very good points, but I would like to play devil's advocate for a moment:
* These people who are in favour, already use Steam on Windows. Some of them paying for and installing Windows, purely to play games on Steam. They may not like Steam, but it is they only way to play some of the games they like (without resorting to "piracy").
* 'Software freedom' is not every Linux users primary motive for using Windows. There are plenty of reasons using Linux, 'software freedom' is jut one.
* Even if 'software freedom' is the main reason - it won't necessarily influence all uses of their computer. In some scenarios open source and software freedom make all the difference (a closed model could never make something like Drupal for instance) - in other case it is more ethereal. For example, I have never sold a game, so that freedom doesn't matter to me greatly - even though at an intellectual level, I think it is very important and I think that the way Steam (and many others) use DRM should be outlawed.
* They are looking at the bigger picture, they see that if Steam supports Linux and lots of people use it, hardware support could increase. More independents might release games for Linux and they could then support them.

I think a point that most of those in favour seem to be ignoring is that even if Steam comes to Linux - it won't be all games, it probably won't even be many games. That said it is still probably a step in the right direction. I just hope it isn't going to be another Unreal Tournament 3 or Neverwinter Nights.

Edited 2010-04-24 11:08 UTC

Reply Score: 1

RE: Steam, Smoke, Hot Air . . .
by bert64 on Sun 25th Apr 2010 23:45 UTC in reply to "Steam, Smoke, Hot Air . . ."
bert64 Member since:
2007-04-23

Nvidia has binary only linux drivers which work quite well, and for games which have native linux versions have always tended to outperform windows by about 5% vs xp...
ATI also has binary drivers, but they suck and are much slower than the windows ones. However, ATI are releasing hardware specs and open source drivers are progressing. More games being available for linux will likely spur development of drivers.
Remember, windows only has binary drivers too, for either vendor so linux isn't doing too badly.

The other major graphics vendor is Intel, and they have fully open linux drivers, ofcourse intel graphics are only suitable for older games.

Reply Score: 2

Postal 3 anyone?
by leech on Sat 24th Apr 2010 17:39 UTC
leech
Member since:
2006-01-10

Seriously, if there is ANY doubt that the Source engine is being ported to Linux, then they can slap themselves in the face. Postal 3 has been scheduled to be ported to Linux since it was announced, and it was announced to use the Source engine instead of the Unreal Engine like the second one.

Whether or not Steam comes into this, is a best guess. But I would assume that Valve is going to be announcing Steam on Linux soon before Postal 3 is done.

Reply Score: 3

RE: Postal 3 anyone?
by nt_jerkface on Mon 26th Apr 2010 02:20 UTC in reply to "Postal 3 anyone?"
nt_jerkface Member since:
2009-08-26

Seriously, if there is ANY doubt that the Source engine is being ported to Linux, then they can slap themselves in the face. Postal 3 has been scheduled to be ported to Linux since it was announced, and it was announced to use the Source engine instead of the Unreal Engine like the second one.

Whether or not Steam comes into this, is a best guess. But I would assume that Valve is going to be announcing Steam on Linux soon before Postal 3 is done.



Well they could bring Postal to Linux without porting the Source engine by using Wine.

Who cares anyways when Postal games suck.

Reply Score: 2