Linked by Thom Holwerda on Thu 6th May 2010 09:54 UTC
Internet & Networking Another blow for Flash. As Adobe is stating that they will make the best tools for HTML5, another major website using Flash has announced they're switching over to HTML5. Scribd, which provides in-browser access to all sorts of documents and e-books uploaded by users, will ditch its Flash-based website in favour of a brand-new HTML5 version.
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Scribd sucks.
by Timmmm on Thu 6th May 2010 10:04 UTC
Timmmm
Member since:
2006-07-25

Good news, although I'm sure scribd will still suck.

More to the point though, what exactly are they doing now that couldn't be done with HTML4? Google's PDF quickview seems to manage fine without HTML5 or flash.

Reply Score: 2

RE: Scribd sucks.
by Thom_Holwerda on Thu 6th May 2010 10:06 UTC in reply to "Scribd sucks."
Thom_Holwerda Member since:
2005-06-29

Good news, although I'm sure scribd will still suck.


I just used the Flash version for the first time, and indeed sucks. But why would the new "Still suck"? Is there something about Scribd I don't know? I didn't know what it was until just now.

More to the point though, what exactly are they doing now that couldn't be done with HTML4? Google's PDF quickview seems to manage fine without HTML5 or flash.


Google's PDF quickview is just that - displaying a PDF in a frame. Scribd's produces an actual web page. That's quite something different.

Edited 2010-05-06 10:06 UTC

Reply Score: 1

RE[2]: Scribd sucks.
by Timmmm on Thu 6th May 2010 15:26 UTC in reply to "RE: Scribd sucks."
Timmmm Member since:
2006-07-25

Google's PDF quickview is just that - displaying a PDF in a frame. Scribd's produces an actual web page. That's quite something different.


I don't quite follow you. Google's PDF quickview is 'an actual web page'. It doesn't even use any plugins, unlike Scribd.

Reply Score: 1

RE: Scribd sucks.
by wojnicki on Thu 6th May 2010 10:19 UTC in reply to "Scribd sucks."
wojnicki Member since:
2009-06-23

Exactly. There is no need to use HTML5 in order to provide documents 'as web pages'. Documents are not applications, HTML5 is about applications mostly.

If only the web browsers supported CSS2.1 we'd have additionally nice printing support (table of contents, splitting into pages, indexes etc). But instead we have this crazy race/buzz regarding HTML5.

Reply Score: 3

RE[2]: Scribd sucks.
by Kroc on Thu 6th May 2010 11:39 UTC in reply to "RE: Scribd sucks."
Kroc Member since:
2005-11-10

Urgh. Know that all too well. I was battling with pathetic printing support in Firefox 1.0 and I'm still battling with it now. _All_ browsers suck at printing. It's not an exciting area, but it has got to mature if HTML is going to start replacing native apps.

Reply Score: 1

RE: Scribd sucks.
by Torrance on Thu 6th May 2010 10:26 UTC in reply to "Scribd sucks."
Torrance Member since:
2006-04-05

Unless they're using html canvas to achieve the layout, then you're probably right: this could be done with html4.1 and a few CSS3 properties (such as css3 text columns http://www.w3.org/TR/css3-multicol/ )

I'm curious to see a page using the non-flash technique...

Reply Score: 1

RE[2]: Scribd sucks.
by Preston5 on Thu 6th May 2010 11:27 UTC in reply to "RE: Scribd sucks."
Preston5 Member since:
2010-03-19

Hmm, I thought they used Flash to prevent copying text.

I'm curious as well. I figure that any scheme they implement will have some form of DRM (to keep content providers happy).

Edited 2010-05-06 11:30 UTC

Reply Score: 1

RE[3]: Scribd sucks. - it can be copied
by jabbotts on Thu 6th May 2010 15:49 UTC in reply to "RE[2]: Scribd sucks."
jabbotts Member since:
2007-09-06

If you can view it on your computer, you can copy it. Even if that means feeding your speaker out into an audio in on a recording device or, in this case, running screenshots through an OCR. (man, one would really have to want the text to OCR screenshots though)

Reply Score: 2

ummmm... who cares?
by re_re on Thu 6th May 2010 11:37 UTC
re_re
Member since:
2005-07-06

For god sakes ... you guys always make a big deal of this nonsense. You realize this is just the free market taking it's course.. I do realize that many of you don't believe in the free market (although you say you do), but yeah ...... the market works itself out.

Reply Score: 2

RE: ummmm... who cares?
by l3v1 on Thu 6th May 2010 12:55 UTC in reply to "ummmm... who cares?"
l3v1 Member since:
2005-07-06

[ somewhat offtopic ramblings coming up, you've been warned ;) ]

Well, that's very liberal thinking, some might actually agree with that, I also partially do. But the fact is, sometimes you can see decisions being made that can lead to such wide changes in the web landscape that [could] result in something not all of us would like to see. E.g. changing certain ways of doing things into solutions that either [could] make the web a more closed and constrained environment, or leading to adoption of formats and delivery methods that point to a selected few holding the control in their hands.

In the case of scribd using flash or html5 to display textual contents in a closed-down format, it's not a big deal, since in essence from the point of view of the users not much changes. But, as just one superficial example, content filtering in all-html5 pages will be much more harder than now with flash. Same thing going around around h.264/free alternatives, from the typical enduser point of view not much change, but in general we could end up in a cell not easy to move around in.

Back to the let the market drive thought, in the above cases it's not really the market that drives these things, it's the desires of certain companies to have tighter control over certain aspects of web content delivery, and them trying to convince others that their solutions actually try to solve some problems that we have. But it's very seldom their problems coincide with the average users' problems.

Edited 2010-05-06 12:57 UTC

Reply Score: 2

RE[2]: ummmm... who cares?
by Kroc on Thu 6th May 2010 13:07 UTC in reply to "RE: ummmm... who cares?"
Kroc Member since:
2005-11-10

content filtering in all-html5 pages will be much more harder than now with flash


I can tell you now it's not. Try the Element Hiding Helper addon for AdBlock Plus. Click an element and you can hide it, or customise the CSS selector to target it.

HTML content gives us far more control over what content we see than any technology before it. You can veto anything and reshape anything according to tastes.

For example, see what I've done here: http://camendesign.com/art/if-i-designed-engadget. With Flash, it's all or nothing.

Reply Score: 1

RE[2]: ummmm... who cares?
by nt_jerkface on Sat 8th May 2010 20:50 UTC in reply to "RE: ummmm... who cares?"
nt_jerkface Member since:
2009-08-26


Back to the let the market drive thought, in the above cases it's not really the market that drives these things,


The market is there, the problem is that it doesn't value the same things that you do.

For example even though Silverlight is technically superior to Flash it is still having problems getting adopted since the install base of Flash is of greater value to companies than any technical advantages that Silverlight offers.

Good enough tech + high install base is typically favored by the market over better tech + low install base.

Reply Score: 2

RE: ummmm... who cares?
by spiderman on Thu 6th May 2010 15:13 UTC in reply to "ummmm... who cares?"
spiderman Member since:
2008-10-23

WTF it is not the free market, it's the hand of god. If god didn't decided so, it would not be so you idiot.
Or is it Gaïa?

Please get a brain man. The free market isn't the almighty force that will provide us with naked virgins and save us from the wrath of Satan.

Reply Score: 0

Innovation
by qbast on Thu 6th May 2010 13:40 UTC
qbast
Member since:
2010-02-08

Wow, providing documents as web pages written in HTML, what a novel idea.

Reply Score: 4

But what will it work on?
by tomz on Thu 6th May 2010 16:20 UTC
tomz
Member since:
2010-05-06

Great - it will work on the iPad, but is it going to be broken on FireFox and Opera?

Perhaps I should say more broken.

Scribd is a DRMvelope pretending to be a publishing site.

Reply Score: 1

so what...
by Ikshaar on Thu 6th May 2010 17:45 UTC
Ikshaar
Member since:
2005-07-14

honestly I surf the web a lot (!) and I probably ended up on scribd twice... and never got anything useful out of it...

I hope you don't intent to make a news story of every single website which make a change...

Reply Score: 1

Great news
by error32 on Thu 6th May 2010 18:57 UTC
error32
Member since:
2008-12-10

Now I can finally use scribd.

Reply Score: 1

Nice, and slight confusion.
by baryluk on Fri 7th May 2010 10:41 UTC
baryluk
Member since:
2010-01-02

Very good news. I would like to thanks Scribd team behind this!

I have really pain reading this documents on scribd with flash, now it is much better.

As of technology. What features of HTML5 was used which have not been in previous HTML and JS? I find HTML5 buzz getting tension sometimes without technical reason behind it. By technical i mean that some people call HTML5 even "standard" Web 2.0 pages. To call something HTML5 it needs to use some new feature of HTML5 which was not available previously. This includes: video or audio tag, geolocation API, canvas, webgl, local storage, WebSQL, asynchronous JS, or some new markup tags (which isn't really very important technically).


So why it is called HTML5 here and there?

Reply Score: 1

What features of HTML5 are they using?
by behrangsa on Fri 7th May 2010 13:56 UTC
behrangsa
Member since:
2006-04-30

What features of HTML5 are they using that are not already available in HTML 4?

Reply Score: 1

TommyCarlier Member since:
2006-08-02

Web-fonts is 1 feature that is pretty new.
If you want to see Scribd in HTML5 in action, check out http://www.scribd.com/documents/30964170/Scribd-in-HTML5

Reply Score: 1