Linked by Thom Holwerda on Sun 16th May 2010 13:16 UTC
Apple "I didn't plan to pick a fight with Steve Jobs last night. It just sort of happened: An iPad advertisement ticked me off; I sent the Apple CEO an angry email; he told me about 'freedom from porn'. The electronic debate proceeded from there." Says the man who used to use LSD. This man knows how to sell iPads to America: think of the children!
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so what?
by Phocean on Sun 16th May 2010 15:39 UTC
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The whole conversation is so boring, doesn't make much sense except exposing the blogger's personal opinion about morality.
And however he can excuse about it, I feel bad seeing a private discussion revealed, obviously without the acceptation of both parts.

Reply Score: 1

And Steve Jobs is right
by patrix on Sun 16th May 2010 16:04 UTC
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A certain standard, certain ethos was chosen for the platform, and if someone doesn't like living with that they can go elsewhere.

Perfectly makes sense, and it's one thing that always has maintained the Mac's quality, rather than trying to cater to everyone at every time.

Android also has its own set of standards and ethos, and they have their pros and cons, and if someone doesn't like it they can also look elsewhere.

And I wouldn't want it any other way.

Reply Score: 2

RE: And Steve Jobs is right
by CaptainN- on Sun 16th May 2010 22:30 UTC in reply to "And Steve Jobs is right"
CaptainN- Member since:

That's precisely why I've been saying iPad will not win. Android (and perhaps other Linux) based devices are going to dominate this kind of computing - which will replace the PC/laptop.

The sad part is I like Apple, and I'd like them to succeed. Limiting Web plugins is a bad move that will only cost Apple customers - to say nothing of the cross compilers (BTW, Apple is jumping through legal hoops to get at cross compilers, without saying that's what they are doing - worth noting).

Jobs actually analyzed it right - accept our decisions or buy a different device. Consumers will buy other devices.

Reply Score: 2

RE[2]: And Steve Jobs is right
by patrix on Mon 17th May 2010 04:06 UTC in reply to "RE: And Steve Jobs is right"
patrix Member since:

Let's see some good Android tablet on the market first, that actually work well with existing apps and new apps and aren't dog-slow, running Android 1.6, or scams from China like all the tablets I read about so far.

I love my Nexus One, can't wait to see what Google and/or HTC come up with as far as Android tablets, and let's see how they fare. I'm eagerly awaiting, and I'm still not sure it'll sell more than the iPad.

Time will tell, and then, well, I guess one day our priorities will change and we'll laugh or regret all our arguing about this on the Internet lol. I already see it as silly. Just get what you need goddamn, it ain't a religion or anything...


Reply Score: 1

RE[3]: And Steve Jobs is right
by CaptainN- on Mon 17th May 2010 19:15 UTC in reply to "RE[2]: And Steve Jobs is right"
CaptainN- Member since:

I like arguing over what I think will happen in the future. As a pass time - it's fun!

But yeah, we'll see when the real Android tablets start shipping. My read on the industry, is that hardware manufacturers are waiting for some work in Android before shipping hardware based on it - should see some around August or September, but more likely the Christmas rush.

And in the spirit of prediction - I think Android tablets will follow the same trajectory as the Android phones - many will hit at once, and they'll start selling in big numbers once they are cheap enough (and they will be cheaper than iPad in short order). :-)

Reply Score: 1

by J.R. on Sun 16th May 2010 16:39 UTC
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Freedom FROM? Not much freedom then is it?

Reply Score: 5

RE: from?
by jimbofluffy on Sun 16th May 2010 17:33 UTC in reply to "from?"
jimbofluffy Member since:

Freedom FROM? Not much freedom then is it?

There are two notions of freedom or liberty: positive and negative. The first two paragraphs under "Two Concepts of Liberty" in this Standford Encyclopedia of Philosophy provide an example of both.

Reply Score: 4

this bashing is getting more and more annoying
by dvhh on Sun 16th May 2010 16:40 UTC
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As ubiquitous the iphone is and the ipad would probably be, I'm getting tired of people complaining about the lack of freedom of te platform and still stick to it or advocating not to buy it, the market is about choice and the winner is not always the best one ( only the one that was good enough at the time).
I being saturated to the point that iphone hater are more annoying to me than apple fanboy.

Reply Score: 1

No porn eh...
by ericools on Sun 16th May 2010 18:02 UTC
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Well let me see what happens if I type boobs in a google image search on my iPhone.

I'm truly impressed Mr. Jobs, way to go.

Reply Score: 1

RE: No porn eh...
by mercury on Mon 17th May 2010 02:13 UTC in reply to "No porn eh..."
mercury Member since:

Boobs aren't porn - it's what you can do with them ;)

Also that is the web as apposed to an Apple iPhone/iPad app.

Reply Score: 3

Think about beyond the hype?
by Fusion on Sun 16th May 2010 20:11 UTC
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I don't think Jobs or Tate are really *listening* to each other in that e-mail exchange.

Both make some valid points, and Apple's decision to 'lock-down' their iPad in the manner they've chosen is pretty consistent to their overall lock-down strategy for everything Apple: CONTROL, CONTROL, CONTROL. You can argue that this approach serves for greater product stability/performance and behavior/consistency, and you'd probably be correct to an extent. You might conversely argue that lock-down inhibits users and developers from full 'freedom' to use the devices they own, and you would also be correct. But again, this is, and has always been true of just about every Apple product in existence.

Jobs, of course, sensationalizes his product as REVOLUTIONARY. We all know that this statement is a load of pork pies---a tablet PC w/ touch interface a la *still* a tablet PC, and those have been around for years! Evolution, yes; revolution, absolutely not. But any good and motivated CEO will get behind his/her products in this manner... they have to; it's good marketing. Just like politicians more often speak propaganda than straight facts---because, unfortunately, people aren't motivated by dry and boring facts. EXTREME words motivate... BRAWNDO: THE THIRST MUTILATOR!!!

I do have two points of contention with Jobs' words, and I'm glad Tate called him out on one of them: "Protecting children" is an argument used in just about every political and marketing campaign TO SCARE PEOPLE into action. Oooooo!! Porn! If you're a good parent, you pay attention to your kid whenever possible and instill the values you hold in them... it's called PARENTING. Some kids may find ways around restrictive manipulation (they ALWAYS do), if they're truly motivated to. Shit happens.

So apparently owning non-apple hardware hurts children, expletive music lyrics hurt children, gay marriage hurts children, universal health care hurts children (what?!). I'm so sick of hearing those marketing/propagandist lines. Ya know what hurts children?! Physical violence, abusive uneducated parents, and disease. So shut up and move on!

The other statement Jobs made that bugged me was: "By the way, what have you done that's so great? Do you create anything, or just criticize their work and belittle their motivation." Arrogance at its best. There is a difference between thinking critically and criticizing. And while Tate may have expressed his perspective a bit 'off-the-cuff,' Jobs was the one belittling Tate with that remark.

Reply Score: 4

Member since:

I couldn't give a rat's ass about what any of you think of pornography, personally. I'm not going to engage in what I believe is a fruitless discussion.

And although I'm a parent, I'm not an idiot. Ask me to my face and I'll tell you filters only work as much as those using them want them to. I know firsthand that they can be disabled, and so can anything on an iPad or an iPhone with time, determination, and skill. Or even a bit of dumb luck.

So Jobs has drawn a line. Good. That should matter for parents that buy their kids these devices and don't want them to stumble on stuff incidentally. I'm not stupid; I'm not going to say it replaces honest and hard discussions. I've had a few of them with one of my children early on. Some said she was too young (she's 8 now, and this was a few years ago); I thought the circumstances warranted it. So I'm not ignorant, either.

So those that want porn will move to Android or whatever. Good. But I'm still going to say that if there are those that want it, and those that don't want it, that there should be be options to both. It would seem Jobs has chosen the former. If you can find a way that Apple products can have the latter... eh, good for you. It's already been abundantly proven there's a market for porn. But I'd say the other market is, too. Plenty of multimedia is already censored as a matter of practice, so arguments regarding artistic integrity just bore the hell out of me. Why should you personally care about "Clean" versions being on the market? Makes about as much sense as complaining about the "Unrated" ones, IMHO, and in the U.S., you can get the latter quite easily at the much-maligned box stores, say, *cough*Wal-Mart*cough*

Reply Score: 1