Linked by Thom Holwerda on Wed 19th May 2010 17:14 UTC
Apple Remember MacOS 9, or Classic as Apple named it once Mac OS X was released? On PowerPC Macintosh machines, you can install a Classic environment which launches a virtualised instance of MacOS 9 whenever you launch a Classic application. This environment has been dropped from Intel releases of Mac OS X, but thanks to SheepShaver, you can still set it up yourself on Mac OS X, Linux, Windows, and even BeOS if you want to. I decided to try SheepShaver on my Ubuntu machine, and discovered just how easy it really is.
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Comment by daveak
by daveak on Wed 19th May 2010 17:25 UTC
daveak
Member since:
2008-12-29

Dropped from Intel releases? I thought it was only not installed by default, but still on the dvd or are you not referring to Rosetta (which I had to install to play Diablo 2)?

Reply Score: 1

RE: Comment by daveak
by Thom_Holwerda on Wed 19th May 2010 17:26 UTC in reply to "Comment by daveak"
Thom_Holwerda Member since:
2005-06-29

Rosette is something else - Rosetta allows PowerPC code to be run on Intel machines. Classic allows you to use MacOS 9 applications on Mac OS X (but only on PowerPC Macs).

Reply Score: 2

Comment by HSpoelstra
by HSpoelstra on Wed 19th May 2010 17:46 UTC
HSpoelstra
Member since:
2008-05-23

SheepShaver also runs on Windows, OSX (both PPC and Intel) and others, emulating a G4 processor, capable of running Mac OS 7.5.3 up to 9.0.4. It also offers a (rather crude) solution to the loss of Appletalk in Snow Leopard, through the use of tap/tun driver for OSX and IPNetrouterX software. SheepShaver shares a lot of code with BasiliskII, which can be used to cater for your 68xxx emulation needs.

As the main developer abandoned ship some time ago, problems are starting to arise when running on newer host OS'. Some blatant self-interest-driven request: If anyone is interested, we over at emaculation.com could do with an 64-bit update to the cdrom and ethernet drivers for windows and a better (native) routing solution for appletalk in OSX...

Should be "kleine moeite, grote vreugd" (a Dutch expression, meaning "a small effort, resulting in great joy") for some of us OSNews readers

Reply Score: 1

What? Not for Amiga?
by mrAmiga500 on Wed 19th May 2010 17:51 UTC
mrAmiga500
Member since:
2009-03-20

Man, I wish I could get a PowerPC emulator for my Amiga 500. ;) Until I do, I'll just have to make do with MacOS 8.1 on my A500:

http://www.amiga.org/gallery/index.php?n=1393

Reply Score: 1

RE: What? Not for Amiga?
by tylerdurden on Wed 19th May 2010 23:19 UTC in reply to "What? Not for Amiga?"
tylerdurden Member since:
2009-03-17

Emulating a dead OS, on an even deader OS... that sounds interesting ;-)

Reply Score: 1

RE[2]: What? Not for Amiga?
by mrAmiga500 on Wed 19th May 2010 23:37 UTC in reply to "RE: What? Not for Amiga?"
mrAmiga500 Member since:
2009-03-20

Emulating a dead OS, on an even deader OS... that sounds interesting ;-)


Oh it is... it is. Especially when the even deader OS is emulating the... less dead one. An equivalent would be Windows 3.1 emulating OSX. (not that OSX is dead... but it's getting there ;-) )

Reply Score: 2

Couldn't play video with Mplayer
by jokkel on Wed 19th May 2010 17:59 UTC
jokkel
Member since:
2008-07-07

Something is wrong with the video file. Mplayer doesn't show video.

Reply Score: 2

old style OS
by Adurbe on Wed 19th May 2010 18:44 UTC
Adurbe
Member since:
2005-07-06

I recently came into possession of a g4 Mac which has OS9 and Panther installed.

Its interesting to compare the two OS... In particular the lack of a command line. Back in the 'Classic' days I used to tease my windows using friends that Windows was little more than DOS with a colour palette while Mac was had 'real' GUI. Now OSX is doing just the same ;-)

I think the thing that surprised me most about going back to OS9 was it works... yes, daft as it sounds, I was surprised how much I could do. It could play my DVDs (ok it was a tower so it played them with a windfarm in the background, but we will ignore that) play music, happily handle osnews, facebook, gmail etc.

Another thing, the OS was FAST even on an old G4, it was quick. I wonder how much of the bloat now in OSX could be stripped/disabled on an ad-hoc basis to speed things up...

Reply Score: 2

RE: old style OS
by tylerdurden on Wed 19th May 2010 21:47 UTC in reply to "old style OS"
tylerdurden Member since:
2009-03-17

Technically, I would not consider a kernel with real memory protection, multitasking, and multiuser capabilities, a real networking stack, great frameworks and programming environment, etc... to be "bloat"

But to each their own I guess. ;-)

I loved classic MacOS, and I truly always found its looks far more agreeable than the Windows version (or even things like CDE/motif) of the time. But its actual OS foundation was utter shite... I still remember having to play with the correct extension mix (and in some cases starting order) in order to get a stable system. Or having to manage the memory almost manually in some cases. I still miss CodeWarrior as my C IDE though.

Reply Score: 3

RE[2]: old style OS
by Adurbe on Thu 20th May 2010 09:49 UTC in reply to "RE: old style OS"
Adurbe Member since:
2005-07-06

I appreciate that OSX has some very very nice features. But there is no denying that it is also vastly slower on the same hardware. A simple example of what I consider bloat is dashboard retaining large chunks of memory while the feature is not in use.

Reply Score: 3

RE[3]: old style OS
by Thom_Holwerda on Thu 20th May 2010 09:52 UTC in reply to "RE[2]: old style OS"
Thom_Holwerda Member since:
2005-06-29

Mac OS X as a whole is remarkably inefficient and heavy. Memory requirements to run OS X acceptably are absolutely insane, and no matter how powerful your Mac, responsiveness is always sticky and syrupy.

Windows 7 is far lighter on resources and much more responsive than Mac OS X. No surprise, seeing how Apple's focus is on the iPhone and iPad, and not the Mac.

Reply Score: 1

RE[4]: old style OS
by tylerdurden on Fri 21st May 2010 02:18 UTC in reply to "RE[3]: old style OS"
tylerdurden Member since:
2009-03-17

Wow... you are a funny fellow indeed.

I have a 6+ yr old powerbook with 1.5 GB running OSX 10.5 like a champ. I also have a similar vintage thinkpad, with a faster Pentium M processor vs. the G4 of the PB, running Windows 7 on a similar memory configuration. The OSX machine is as responsive as the Wintel one.

Reply Score: 3

RE[3]: old style OS
by tylerdurden on Fri 21st May 2010 02:20 UTC in reply to "RE[2]: old style OS"
tylerdurden Member since:
2009-03-17

You can turn off dashboard.

And my point was that OSX does a heck of a lot more than System 8/9 ever did. It is like claiming how DOS on a Pentium would be faster than Windows NT on the same processor. Well, d'uh.

Reply Score: 3

SheepShaver in my PPA
by mdeslaur on Wed 19th May 2010 19:08 UTC
mdeslaur
Member since:
2010-05-19

There are SheepShaver packages in my PPA here:

https://launchpad.net/~mdeslaur/+archive/ppa

Reply Score: 1

Thank you!
by Gullible Jones on Wed 19th May 2010 19:12 UTC
Gullible Jones
Member since:
2006-05-23

No seriously! A member of my family has a business he's looking to migrate from Classic Mac to current Windows or Linux, but some of the applications he uses are tied to Classic, with proprietary file formats. Looks like this might be a ticket into modern times (or halfway there anyway).

Reply Score: 2

Why SheepShaver?
by TheGZeus on Wed 19th May 2010 19:24 UTC
TheGZeus
Member since:
2010-05-19

It seems like you have to jump through alot of hoops here, really.
Why not PearPC and OpenHackWare?
That covers the ROM problem, and apparently doesn't have the weird errors. I think this is how someone got OS X to start booting on an 68k Mac with Debian. They may have been using QEMU, though.
Granted, it would have taken weeks to boot, but it would have happened...

EDIT: Ah, PearPC doesn't run Classic, sorry. It's possible, just not ready.

Edited 2010-05-19 19:32 UTC

Reply Score: 1

On Classilla...
by innerlogic on Wed 19th May 2010 19:49 UTC
innerlogic
Member since:
2005-07-06

I got it working just fine in Sheepshaver (As pictured here -> http://yfrog.com/j8screenshotppp ). I don't think my install is much different than yours, apart from some extra MacOS 9 games I installed on it. Maybe it could be due to differing ROMs? Or it could just be pure luck... I'll go with that.

In any case, when compared to iCab, Classilla renders pages a bit faster. However, being based off of Mozilla, Classilla seems to have all the same bloat. Really, while it's nice to see that there are ways to have modern web browsing on an old platform like MacOS 9, it's not really practical.

Reply Score: 1

I adore platinum.
by judgen on Wed 19th May 2010 19:50 UTC
judgen
Member since:
2006-07-12

I just simply love the looks of classic, that is why i compiled this GTK package for gnome so i can still feel like using OS9 with no of its technical limitations.

http://gnome-look.org/content/show.php/Classic+Platinum+OS9?content...

Reply Score: 4

RE: I adore platinum.
by Dave_K on Thu 20th May 2010 14:00 UTC in reply to "I adore platinum."
Dave_K Member since:
2005-11-16

It's interesting playing around with Mac OS 8 now.

I found it highly underwhelming at the time. I couldn't understand why Mac fans thought it was so wonderful.

That's mainly because I'd been using RISC OS for years, and took niceties like anti-aliased text and live dragging/resizing of windows for granted. It seemed strange that a much hyped new OS on such fast hardware wouldn't offer that kind of thing.

Trying it now I really appreciate the consistency and aesthetics. Nothing distracting, nothing that wastes loads of space or damages usability purely to look cool. All the applications fit together consistently without them all having their own ugly skins. It may look boring at a glance, but it's lovely to use.

Of course there's in option of skins in modern operating systems, but it's harder to fix every application. In Windows I've generally stuck with the good old grey and blue Windows Classic theme, and chosen applications that fit in with that rather than using non-standard skins, but that's harder and harder to accomplish.

For example Opera (with its Windows Native theme) used to be nice and simple and consistent, but with 10.5 that's now designed for the flashy, standards free world of Windows Vista/7. Slathered with utterly moronic transparency effects (e.g. a pop-up tab switcher that often gives you transparent text over the top of web site text), and lots of weird and inconsistent behaviour. It's the way everything seems to be going, but that doesn't mean that I have to like it.

Reply Score: 3

Mac ROM
by edwinr on Wed 19th May 2010 20:56 UTC
edwinr
Member since:
2010-05-16

Actually, there is a way to extract a Mac OS ROM file that works with Sheepshaver from a Mac OS ROM update. You need a program called TomeViewer. TomeViewer only runs on classic Mac OS or in the classic environment on Mac OS X.

TomeViewer: http://www.versiontracker.com/dyn/moreinfo/mac/4561
Mac OS ROM Update 1.0: http://docs.info.apple.com/article.html?artnum=60408

Edit: You may break some license by doing this, do this at your own risk.

Edited 2010-05-19 20:58 UTC

Reply Score: 1

RE: Mac ROM
by bert64 on Thu 20th May 2010 08:21 UTC in reply to "Mac ROM"
bert64 Member since:
2007-04-23

Actually, there is a way to extract a Mac OS ROM file that works with Sheepshaver from a Mac OS ROM update. You need a program called TomeViewer. TomeViewer only runs on classic Mac OS or in the classic environment on Mac OS X.

TomeViewer: http://www.versiontracker.com/dyn/moreinfo/mac/4561
Mac OS ROM Update 1.0: http://docs.info.apple.com/article.html?artnum=60408

Edit: You may break some license by doing this, do this at your own risk.


If you need a running OS9/Classic environment in order to run this program, then surely you already have access to the roms...

Reply Score: 2

RE[2]: Mac ROM
by edwinr on Thu 20th May 2010 09:16 UTC in reply to "RE: Mac ROM"
edwinr Member since:
2010-05-16

As far as I know, not all ROMs work with Sheepshaver and TomeViewer runs on 68k Macs. 68k Macs are not emulated by Sheepshaver. You do need to have a running classic environment to extract the file, but this can also be done on an even older 68k Mac, emulated 68k Mac(also needs a ROM file) or possibly (not tested by me) on Executor, which doesn't need a ROM file to run.

Edited 2010-05-20 09:16 UTC

Reply Score: 1

COI Chubby Bunny
by kedwards on Wed 19th May 2010 21:57 UTC
kedwards
Member since:
2009-04-25

I remember reading about sheepshaver a few years back. Somebody created a pre-packaged version of sheepshaver with Mac OS 9.0.4 called COI(Classic on Intel) for Mac OS X. I believe the latest version is 4.01 "Chubby Bunny."

Reply Score: 1

Awesome, thanks
by 3rdalbum on Thu 20th May 2010 03:02 UTC
3rdalbum
Member since:
2008-05-26

I first tried Sheepshaver back when I was new to Linux, and I couldn't get anything working.

Recently I was thinking about those classic Mac OS games that I can no longer play because my Mac is gone; now I have some hope of playing them again thanks to your article.

Reply Score: 2

FIX: Running as non-root
by nalf38 on Thu 20th May 2010 04:54 UTC
nalf38
Member since:
2006-09-01

Add this to your /etc/sysctl.conf file:

vm.mmap_min_addr = 0

That will fix the "Cannot map low mem globals" error that you're getting, and you won't have to run SheepShaver with root permissions.

Reply Score: 2

Thom: what fonts are you using in GNOME?
by IanDumych on Thu 20th May 2010 17:16 UTC
IanDumych
Member since:
2009-02-02

Totally off topic, but I can't help but notice your gnome fonts look way nicer than the Ubuntu defaults. What's your secret? Are they the OSX fonts or what?

Reply Score: 1

Thom_Holwerda Member since:
2005-06-29

Totally off topic, but I can't help but notice your gnome fonts look way nicer than the Ubuntu defaults. What's your secret? Are they the OSX fonts or what?


I use Trebuchet MS for everything (it's in the Core Fonts for the Web package), 8 point, bold for window titles. My fixed width font is much harder to come by, as it ships with Windows 7: it's called Consolas.

Subpixel smoothing, set to slight.

Reply Score: 1

i have a mac
by Mellin on Thu 20th May 2010 22:55 UTC
Mellin
Member since:
2005-07-06

i have a mac that got mac os 9.2.2 on it and a few games

Edited 2010-05-20 22:56 UTC

Reply Score: 2

Nice Article but just use a Mac
by NeoX on Fri 21st May 2010 00:00 UTC
NeoX
Member since:
2006-02-19

I picked up a G4 Mini on CL for about $100, and can easily run the classic environment. You can also find older G4s that run OS 9 quite well natively.

I actually liked OS 9 and the "classic" os days are what got me into Macs to start with. Going from Amiga to Windows then to Mac in the early 90's was a fun time. OS 7.5.x had it's issues though and it was an art to make it stable so that it would not crash, of course depending on your Mac model. But everything was cool and unique and a lot more flash compared to windows of the time (3.1 or 95, take your pick).

I have to agree with the others too that OS X is now officially bloatware™ and had hoped that Snow leopard would be to leopard what Windows 7 was to Vista but alas, it is not and it is still bloated. Oh you have more disk space when you are done upgrading but that is probably because of the way they now calculate a MB and GB in OS X.

Ah well I guess I need to upgrade to a newer MacBook Pro...

Reply Score: 1

MacOS 7.0.1 and 7.5.3 available from Apple
by ttmooney on Fri 21st May 2010 08:58 UTC
ttmooney
Member since:
2010-05-21

Hi All --

You can download 7.0.1 (for 68K emulation) and 7.5.3 (for PPC) directly from Apple at:

http://www.info.apple.com/support/oldersoftwarelist.html

You can also get the 7.5.5 update from there.

Reply Score: 2

mrAmiga500 Member since:
2009-03-20

The 7.5.3 (and 7.5.5) can also be used for 68K.
(used it on my Amiga 500 - in fact, I downloaded it using the Amiga 500)

Edited 2010-05-21 12:20 UTC

Reply Score: 1

Comment by Gregory Isaacs
by Gregory Isaacs on Sat 22nd May 2010 20:51 UTC
Gregory Isaacs
Member since:
2006-06-30

I loved OS9 in those days. My last machine was a Umax tower with a G4 CPU upgrade and loads of RAM. Everything was really snappy. But OS9 reached its limits and I guess it was ok that Apple decided to go for a totally new designed OS. Two great games I loved where Prime Target and Damage Inc. as well as those Ambrosia Software games.

Reply Score: 1