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My eyes! They are bleeding!
love it! makes we want to start coding in java again, in hopes that beautiful woman randomly appear and reaffirm my programming language convictions. ...or just appear. you know, which ever.
Stop daydreaming, or you find yourself middle of horror slasher movie you as victim trying to work with Oracle Forms. Java browser plugin + Oracle Forms, horror...horror
This really made me smile. Thanks!
I actually prefer C# and the .NET framework but I have to admit - that's the funniest video I've seen in a very long time and it's making me look at JAVA again.
It's true. If all of Microsoft's product lines were as formidable as .NET, they would be a force to be reckoned with.
As a died-in-the-wool Linux user (as well as BSD, and yes, Windows for gaming!), I have no problem with Microsoft's products. Their developer tools have always been world-class. VB[4-6] was a tremendous IDE/Language for a lot of people, even if oft abused. Visual C++, Microsoft Access, MS Sql Server, all are great products.
The problem I have always had has to do with business practices, especially in the earlier days. They essentially strong-armed their way to a monopoly position.
Having said that, today Apple makes Microsoft look like a total whimp when it comes to strong-arming. Heck, Apple's favorite hobby is suing their own most ardent followers!
I have to completely disagree.
Aside from the horror that is the RIbbon in 2007/2010, Access is a great tool for building apps and manipulating data, in those cases where a more scalable solution is not required.
Of course it is not easy for beginners. MS wants it to be, hence the abomination of the Ribbon and the new navigation pane, but what programmable, relational database is easy for beginners?
As to whether it sucks for app development: a couple of years back I wrote an all-Access (front end and backend) system in A2003 to handle the *global* anti-money laundering exercise at one of the world's largest banks. Why in Access? Because their IT refused to let us have access (no pun intended) to either a SQL Server or Oracle backend, and we were not allowed to install any software that was not already on the desktops (actually, they had Access 2000, but I did manage to persuade them to go to 2003)
So, that left Excel and Access. With the best will in the world, I didn't fancy writing a 15-user Excel system with full audit trail and record sharing!
And so Access. Like any other tool, if you know it well, it's amazing what you can get it to do. 15 users logged in concurrently handling over 200,000* records in real time, 80+ tables, several hundred queries, I think about 50 forms (all designed as a Web page with nav bar, main content as subforms etc so that the users felt at home straight away), I forget how many code modules and classes. Several thousand lines of code, certainly. Mostly around workflow, validation and regulatory requirements.
In 18 months, we had 2 record corruption issues. Just 2. And that was using Jet as the engine.
The other benefit was that were able to start coding on day 1, using a RAD approach. We had people entering data within a week (just 2 at first), and the system took about 3-4 months to build in all (elapsed time was for longer), as more and more functionality got added.
Full audit trail, automatic updates of client front-end databases using another Access app, it had it all
Would I use Access for all my database needs? No way. I use MySQL 5 mainly, SQL Server occasionally. I do use Access (and Excel, and OpenOffice Calc) a lot to manipulate data though. Whatever suits best.
To each their own I guess, which is the pleasure of the choice we all have.
Edit: * that's 200,000 anti-money laundering cases, not database records. The cases were of course split over numerous tables. Edited 2010-07-01 16:04 UTC
But you pretty much summed it up when you stated that you *HAD* to use Access rather than *CHOSE* to.
Sure, you can do that kind of stuff in Access (I myself have done simular stuff when forced to). However just because something can be done, it doesn't mean that it's particularly good at doing it.
So I stand by my point that Access is a dreadful application that seems to fill the sole demographic of "we have to use it as it's the only soddin' thing installed"
I disagree again. I do chose to use Access an awful lot for all kinds of other needs (lots of data migration/cleansing work for example). I was just demonstrating an extreme example of what it's quite capable of doing when required.
I'm clearly not going to change your mind, and you aren't going to change mine, but that's fine. There's plenty of choice out there for all of us.
.net is still nice but most .net dev forget about platform portability (Mono or even older .net version).
And I admit that year after java ms is bound to avoid sun's pitfalls.
However they still keep their own domain strong, .net on the desktop, java on the server (java still got bad press about heavyweight gui, and .net still lack of a tomcat equivalent in the server world).
I have a deep interest with scala, the language that could renew the java platform in a proper motion.
True, but for someone who has 100% of their customers on MS platforms, .NET is gift that and Java can't compare. Edited 2010-06-30 17:53 UTC
If only sun wasn't that much of an ass with java (I don't expect any more from oracle), yeah I know about the openjdk and gjc but apache was trying to build a proper jre and got the finger by sun regarding licencing issue about jre validation tool.
problem is that even with java code, most of the dev target the sun/oracle jre, and often write code that refers to com.sun.* package "because a friend told him to".
plus I would say that as mature as the java platform is, its future is clouded by the oracle acquisition.
I have that fear as well... the Oracle factor. They have a way of ruining things...
OpenJDK is actually quite nice! I was pleasantly surprised that on Mint it was able to run our applications via JBOSS without any hiccups.
yeah, its true!
If only developers who thought Java was super great had to support the back-end servers that run their enterprise applications.
One of our vendors is replacing their Java application with an ASP.net rewrite. I have seen the product and I have to tell you...the application server under load does not even have half the memory footprint and keeps CPU utilization under 30%
I don't care what Java app server you use, it will be chunky and slow.
...if you are a Swede understanding Norwegian. Just sounds so funny! :-)
I second that!
Well, a Dane understanding Norwegian. It is so much better when you ignore the subtitles
Loved the video! I only wish for the sake of the storyline they'd use a dell laptop instead of a Mac. Jave as a platform has its advantages over NET, but also disadvantages.
God, my ribs hurt!
I agree, this was insanely funny! :-D
Comedy gold, son!
Maybe I liked it that much because I am on "the good side", too! Java, I love you! Edited 2010-07-01 19:08 UTC
Isn't Java supposed to be older than .NET?
I guess they mean, Java is past, present and future.
Not that I agree, .Net or Java are not my languages of choice. .Net is platform specific and in my experience people programming Java usually come up with very complicated solutions to simple problems. That seems to be the culture, or best practice. Edited 2010-06-30 22:25 UTC
Java is the young underdog to the established .net. Didn't you watch the video?
They should claim in the video that .net was the successor to Cobol and that Java was created in a garage by a pair of genius twins who open source their software and make money by selling coffee flavored ice cream. Sure that may not be 100% true but think about how much traffic a story with that kind of background could create.
Scala is the namesake of the next generation of Java development in the video. Java is as much a platform as .Net. Java has the JVM, .Net has the CLI. Both platforms have many languages. Note how the video never mentioned Sun, but they did mention open source and Scala. Open source has contributed a great deal to 'new Java'. Go look at Grails, Hibernate and Spring. Look how the open source Joda Time is replacing the abomination of Java's original time classes. (And .Net programmers, don't get smug, Node Time is a port of Joda Time to .Net. Microsoft's handling of time is also pretty bad. It drives me crazy when Microsoft SQL Server calculates that '2010-07-01' - '2010-07-02' = '1899-12-31'. Go look at what Postgres does with time for goodness sake.)
Scala is a brilliant language. It has great support for functional programming, and it also has support for richer OO than I have seen in Java or C#. It runs on both the JVM and the CLI, but I only see it being used on the JVM. Scala's use of actors for concurrency is so much better than writing locks and threads for concurrency. Sun and Microsoft both missed this model, but the open source and academic communities did not.
Look at Clojure. It is being used to pioneer some amazing advances in how programs deal with state. There is a great deal of interesting work being done in Java that has nothing to do with Sun. Can you say that about .Net, who other than Microsoft is evolving the platform?
"-Hey, what are you guys up to ?
-We're just enjoying some porn
-<unsurprised> Hope you're not doing Java and open-source..."
This gag has been overused, but it remains incredibly funny for its age XD
... speaks C/C++
And I speak C/C++, and when multiplataform, I use C++ with Qt.
I don't have flash plugin installed. Can anyone please post a link to youtube video page for this?
youtube-dl -bt http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fzza-ZbEY70&feature=player_embedded
I kind of expected dad to be angry cause he had a mac.. but nope.
if I could get my wife to hold my laptop like that.
Sun blew their early advantage by not making use of native controls and ignoring distribution related issues that developers were constantly complaining about. The arrogance at Sun was always more of a problem than MS or .Net. There were countless posts in Java related forums about the same issues and Sun just ignored them.
Java is completely dead on the desktop and overrated on the server. JavaFX is buggy and requires the Java runtime.
The future is in .Net and Qt.
My desktop: .NET 0 - Java 1 (JDownloader)
Interesting. Did you do large scale computations in C#, or was it small data? What was your PhD about? CFD?
I mean, lots of times it works great for small data, or a few CPUs and then you can hastily draw the conclusion it also works well for large scale - but it doesnt. Large scale is a totally different thing. In general, what works in the small, does not work in the large.
This shows very clear in theoretical comp sci, where the naive algorithms behave terribly for large data sets or for many cpus. Then you have do redo everything and some algorithms become very very nasty and sophisticated. One professor said "the algorithm to do that is very nasty. You could mug someone with it"
My PhD was about document clustering, it involved a lot of text mining techniques, heavily dependent on vector math, in addition to a lot of text pre-processing. I worked on data sets with hundreds of thousands of documents.
The Netflix prize data set wasn't small either. Here's a blurb from the Wikipedia entry: "Netflix provided a training data set of 100,480,507 ratings that 480,189 users gave to 17,770 movies." I wouldn't call this a small data set by any stretch. It's not huge, but it's not small either.
When you talk about algorithms that work well on small data sets but not on large ones you're actually talking about the algorithm computational complexity (Big-O). The language or runtime in which the algorithm is implemented usually doesn't matter if it has bad asymptotic bound; it's going to perform poorly no matter what language it's implemented in.
Raw performance comparison of C, Java, and C#. Short, and with numbers. Edited 2010-07-03 01:31 UTC
Apparently you have never used Java or administered a Java application in the enterprise... Java is so horrably bloated it isn't even funny.
3rd stupiest question. Other stupid questions (in order of descending stupidity):
1. vi or emacs?
2. Spiderman or Wolverine?
3. Java or .Net?
4. Your dad or my dad?
5. Republican or Democrat?
And here are the solutions:
1. ed, of course
2. Sorry to burst your bubble but you look more like Bart Simpson.
3. What? Are you still compiling? Compiling is so 90's. Python, FTW.
4. Your dad, hands down.
5. Given that choice, the only option left is expatriation. Edited 2010-07-01 06:01 UTC
Who made this, and why?
Its an ad. http://jz10.java.no/
That video is absolutly fantastic. I just wonder, what's the music score behind it? I surely recognised in one moment, there's Requiem for a dream, at the very beginning, is that American Beauty?
But - what's the score, when the guy unfolds his dedication to JAVA during the dinner? :-) That one makes me aeger to see the movie once again, whatever the movie is :-)
.NET is only found on clients, not on big servers. On big Enterprise servers you find Java/C/C++. But never C#. Java has a strong heritage of server oriented language. C# is for Windows - i.e. the desktop.
The problem is that there are no good .NET implementations on large Enterprise OSes such as Unix or OpenVMS. All large server systems run on Enterprise OSes. They never run Windows. That is the reason you never find .NET on large Enterprise server systems - because you are forced to use Unix/OpenVMS.
So, Java is for large server systems (together with C/C++). And C# is for desktop clients and small server systems that Windows can handle.
But of course, if MS would release .NET for Enterprise Server OSes, then we would see .NET as a foundation for large Enterprise server systems too. But until then, C# is not an option. You do want some stability and high performance for large datasets, and Windows can not offer that.
Wow, OS-News has certainly gained a lot more closed-minded Windows proponents of late.
I've been developing for around 20 years. Used a lot of languages and platforms including C/C++/Fortran/Perl/Sh/Java/C#.NET. May favourite development environment is Java for the following reasons:
Java is fast
It runs damned fast. Not like it was in 1995 or 2000. After Java 1.6.0_u10 everything is blazingly quick and all graphics are shader accelerated - and I didn't even have to change a line of code to do it.
I don't know whether Microsoft still prohibit but in the middle of this decade it used to be that the licensing terms for .NET prohibited benchmarks (they wanted to avoid a direct comparison of C# against Java). I'm sure .NET is now faster than it was, but so is Java.
The supercomputer people of the French scientific organization INRIA rated Java approaching FORTRAN for speed (this speeds is faster than C++) [August 2008]:
Java is portabile
It is funny hearing people using .NET because all their customers are on Windows. Well duh! You are losing money because now you can't sell to all those customers on the Mac. That is a poor business decision you have made.
I used to hear the same argument when I was told to develop dynamic web pages for Internet Explorer 6 (IE6) and only IE6 even though creating W3C compliant web pages made more sense. These days it is now ridiculous to all that anyone would make such a bone-headed move. It is the same situation with .NET and Java. Why choose a declining 90% of the market when you could instead something that works on Windows AND just about everything else? It just doesn't stack up from a strategic point of view.
You don't need native widgets. The recent Nimbus theme of Swing looks great. Several personal apps I've made and distributed to my flight-simming friends get comments about how good the apps look. Here's a sample of a (mostly-complete) applet I made for scoring combat:
Not too ugly.
There was an interesting article on portability (admittedly C++). Because this developer chose OpenGL over DirectX he was able to increase his sales from 100,000 to 600,000 in two weeks with the advent of the iPhone. This increase was worth $3.5 million to him. If he'd been a Windows-only technology he would have missed out on that revenue. That is why you need strategic platform flexibility - which Java gives and .NET does not. [.NET does not work on the iPhone, whereas Java will using gcj although a true JVM is prohibited by Apple]. Here is the article descrbing this:
If Java didn't work on Windows and only .NET did the choice would be clear - but Java does work on Windows and everything else. You can have the whole pie and not half of the crust (the server space) and 80-90% of the delicious filling (the desktop space). Have the whole pie and make more money with Java.
Java gets you a job
There are a lot more jobs in Java than C#.
I'm currently working in an internet-scale development project for a large American company who I cannot name until the end of the year. We use Java on Linux. Why? It is fast, portable and cheap. When you are running internet scale applications (millions of users) all around the globe Windows is simply not cost-efficient at those scales. Windows is also a pain in the butt at those scales since Linux has better automation options (but this is not a Windows vs Linux debate so I'll stop there).
Don't believe Java has more jobs in development? Check the real facts in job numbers:
Even with the economic downturn and lots of Enterprise-grade projects on hold Java still has a lot more activity than C# by a factor of nearly four.
Java saves you money
This is what it is all about - money. Building stuff in Java costs less than in C++. Java also has far better tools than C++ and C# for ensuring code quality. It is a shame Windows developers never seem to know about these tools - an IDE is just the tip of the iceberg. Java also has far more extensive libraries (3rd party especially) than its rivals. Using these good quality libraries saves your team a huge amount of time (which is money). Java also has a lot more mature software engineering practices associated with it. That's why Spring, Maven, Hudson and the like come out for Java.
Java is stable
With Java you can choose your platform to save money (cheap PCs - which are low-end) or more expensive and reliable mainframes.
Java also changes predictably and doesn't deprecate features as quickly as .NET (which Microsoft must do to get more revenue from you). This means you are not re-writing your apps all the time - which increases your profitability. People think that Java doesn't innovate when in fact the changes are deliberate and conservative. There is no faster Rapid Application Development (RAD) process than not having to re-write all your apps every two years to match the changes in you IDE (as you need to do to maintain you projects with Visual Studio).
In summary. The .NET platform is ok, but it is a far poorer strategic choice than Java. If you are writing stuff for the long term, internet scale deployments, or for multi-platforms (even more important these days) then .NET is simply not a contender. Those of you arguing otherwise are merely highlighting you lack of experience and close-mindedness to the increasing diversity in the IT world (after a decade of decreasing diversity).
Nearly everything that I am seeing for professional work is web development. Other than My Space, show me another top web site that is running on .Net. LinkedIn? Google? Amazon? Twitter? FaceBook? These is more Erlang and Scala, two decidedly offbeat languages, than .Net at these companies.
What does that have to do with desktop development?
I was responding to the parent who was talking about desktop software.
Not sure what listing those websites is supposed to prove anyways. Google and Amazon were built before asp.net but even if it had been an option I don't see what that would prove.
It's clear that high-end websites can be built with asp.net which clearly bothers ABMrs who seem to take religious offense at Windows in the server room. If you don't want to use asp.net then that is fine but don't delude yourself into thinking that Google or Amazon couldn't be ran on .net.
lol Video is fun... while Java is not ;-)
As for Java vs .NET debate, this is long over: just look at server sales. Plus Java will have really bad times on mobile and desktop.
Anyway, life is wonderful because anyone can choose whatever they like to do the job. Unix shops will still consider Java as the best while MS shops will prefer .NET. And we know what newcomers are choosing based on server sales.
But video is great :-P
I don't get the comparison!
Java is a PROGRAMMING LANGUAGE and .NET is a complete run-time framework supporting a number of languages.
I know it's easy to be confused. But Java is the name of both a programming language and a platform
You have Java - the programming language (like C#) and Java the platform (like .net)
Java (the programming language) runs on JVM, which is similar to Microsofts CLR and can run many different langauges (like Scala, Python, Ruby, PHP and others)
When at the dinner the son announces his "secret", one can hear the sound Windows plays during the shutdown sequence. It is subtle, but once you notice it, you won't miss it again.
I think that video is stupid. It is based on a sentiment that makes me spend less and less time on IT forums. Simply, I don't have anything to add to the discussions like X is good and Y is bad.
Computers are business in the first place. Computers are fun, also. They are not religion. Operating system or development technology is not something that one should be loyal to.
I am doing my job in Java, because, across the board, it serves me best. I used to do some PHP stuff, but it soes not serve me as good as Java, because I can do more in less time with Java. I was in the situation to do some work in VB.Net. Both Java and PHP serve me better than .NET. It does not mean that I have some feelings towards Java, it just suits my needs. I don't ask my self what can I do for Java, instead I ask what Java can do for me.