Linked by gsyoungblood on Tue 20th Jul 2010 18:01 UTC
PDAs, Cellphones, Wireless On July 15th the latest Android super-phone was released by Motorola and Verizon Wireless. All hail the Droid X. The release was not without controversy though. The Droid X, while greatly raising the bar for Android phones in general, does so at the expense of the very power users and community that made the original Droid the gotta-have phone it became. Alienating this group may have far reaching consequences for Motorola.
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Don't freakin buy the damned thing then
by joshv on Tue 20th Jul 2010 18:15 UTC
joshv
Member since:
2006-03-18

If you think eFuse is an such an outrage, don't buy the damned thing. Meanwhile, the other 99.9999% of us who've never flashed the ROM on our phone with an unapproved software image, will go happily about our business and select phones based on real futures that we care about.

Reply Score: 2

fretinator Member since:
2005-07-06

If you think eFuse is an such an outrage, don't buy the damned thing.

The problem for many is that it is too late. They naturally assumed that the Droid X was a successor to the the Droid (don't know why they would think that!). The eFuse was a nastly little surprise for these folks.

And, even though they remain a minority (which is always appropriate to ignore, correct?), they are a vocal minority and they drive the mindshare of the Android world. The Android world is not like the Apple world. Apple can kick their end-users directly in the teeth, and their users will always come back smiling (albeit minus a tooth or two). Android folks are a more independent lot.

Reply Score: 10

Sollord Member since:
2006-01-05

I don't get why people are upset or surprised the milestone in Europe has had this sense launch and it should be no surprise to anyone that all future high end Motorola phones would use it also

Reply Score: 1

werpu Member since:
2006-01-18

I don't get why people are upset or surprised the milestone in Europe has had this sense launch and it should be no surprise to anyone that all future high end Motorola phones would use it also

Well funny thing is that Motorola has not learned a single lesson from this. The Milestone was just a mediocre success if it even was that, over here in europe. Lots of people simply did not buy it because of the bootloader issue. But it seems that Motorola prefers total control over lots of sales. Not a good business sense if you ask me.
In the meanwhile the more open Nexus One and HTC Desire sell like hotcakes over here (The N1 currently is sold out in germany over Vodaphone same goes for the Desire)

Edited 2010-07-23 18:57 UTC

Reply Score: 2

organgtool Member since:
2010-02-25

Why should we shut up about this problem?! If everyone who was upset about this simply didn't buy the phone and kept their mouths shut, then Motorola would have no idea that they were losing sales because of this "feature". Companies pay good money to figure out why consumers like or don't like their devices and here we are offering that information for free! If Motorola cares about their customers at all, they will listen to us when we tell them why we are buying other company's phones! So don't tell us to shut up!!! To use your own argument against you: if you don't like articles like this, then simply "don't freakin read the damned thing"!

Reply Score: 4

LighthouseJ Member since:
2009-06-18

To use your own argument against you: if you don't like articles like this, then simply "don't freakin read the damned thing"!


I used this argument just previously, below this in the threaded list.

The logical error with your argument is that if we didn't read the article, then you'd still complain that we didn't read the article in the first place and thus wouldn't have any ground to discuss on.

Reply Score: 2

Coxy Member since:
2006-07-01

Here, here

Reply Score: 2

fanboi_fanboi Member since:
2010-04-21

Where, where? Grammar, grammar. Hear, hear.

Reply Score: 1

LighthouseJ Member since:
2009-06-18

Voted you up because the consumer should be able to vote with their wallet.

In the article, I immediately felt some prejudice against Motorola starting from the headline, and continued throughout, explaining how the protective measures are a disadvantage in some fictitious way or another.

Don't like it? Don't buy it. And if you're going to write about, be constructive about the information. Don't spend all that time gathering facts just to poo poo on it.

Reply Score: 2

sc3252 Member since:
2005-09-06

Its more complicated then that. The consumers probably don't understand what this means for them. I don't think if you told someone this was put in place for planned obsolescence they(the consumer) would be happy, but that is what its for. They don't want to support this thing for more than a year so people will go out and buy the Droid Y(as in why would you buy this?) next year.

Reply Score: 3

LighthouseJ Member since:
2009-06-18

Are you sure the consumer wouldn't be happy if they heard about planned obsolescence?

A (regular) consumer only wants a phone that will last them until their next upgrade cycle. Would the consumer really care if their phone they upgraded from broke after they upgraded? Why should Motorola over-engineer a phone that will last 15 years when it'll be used heavily for 2?

Further, most people (at least the ones I know) don't upgrade phones out of cycle and pay $400 to do so, they wait until their carrier heavily subsidizes their new one on a contract renewal period. If the phone breaks beforehand and must buy a new one, they'll buy the cheapest one so they can still use the service (and be soured on the carrier that charges them money), not the Droid Y.

Reply Score: 1

sc3252 Member since:
2005-09-06

I am sure that is a great selling point for buyers... The only thing is that they don't usually update after the first year, so you have to deal with it for another year until you can upgrade. While I do understand your point that people like to buy new "shinny" shit, it still isn't pleasant to hear that your hand held computer is not going to be updated because they want you to buy the new version next year.

Reply Score: 2

David Member since:
1997-10-01

A consumer also wants to buy something that has some value on ebay when they upgrade. A phone that can't have its software upgraded when it's a couple years old is worth a lot less than a phone that can. Which makes it a bad deal.

I have never failed to sell my old iPhone for at least the $200 I paid for it when I upgraded to the new one. That's an important consideration.

Reply Score: 2

phoenix Member since:
2005-07-11

Are you sure the consumer wouldn't be happy if they heard about planned obsolescence?


Hard to parse that grammatically, but I get the gist. ;)

A (regular) consumer only wants a phone that will last them until their next upgrade cycle.


Define "regular consumer". Everyone I talk to at work, home, and play wants devices that will last more than 2 years, and continously lament the whole "planned obsolescence" thing. Everywhere I turn I hear complaints about yesteryear when even simple appliances like a toaster would last for 10 years or more. Now, everything is "throw-away after 10 months of use".

Perhaps you are talking about pre-teens/teens/early-20-somethings who don't know any better as they've grown up with the "throw-away tech"?

If TDMA towers were still operational, I'd still be using my original cell phone, Panasonic TX-220. A nice ruggedised phone that's survived 2-storey drops onto concrete. Compare that to the crap being pumped out now that can rarely survice a 3 foot drop onto carpet.

Oh, for the days when quality mattered, and longevity was king. :stares wistfully into the distance:

Reply Score: 4

benir0 Member since:
2006-07-26

Imploring others to "not buy the damned thing" is perfectly good advice. However, the undertone of judgement in your post seems misplaced. Normally, I would assume that if you are on OSNews, you are an OS enthusiast and thereby part of the 0.0001% of users who are tinkerers. In your case, this obviously isn't true. However, you should probably be aware that OSNews is going to be in favor of openness as it applies to user control of devices. Thanks to the reporting of OSNews and other sites (along with thoughtful suggestions like yours), I definitely will not be purchasing a Droid X.

Reply Score: 2

Now Motorola is in my black list
by jgfenix on Tue 20th Jul 2010 18:16 UTC
jgfenix
Member since:
2006-05-25

I have a N900 so I didn´t want to buy a motorola phone but I won´t buy other products either.
By the way, wasn´t the GPLv3 designed to prevent things like this?

Reply Score: 4

vivainio Member since:
2008-12-26


By the way, wasn´t the GPLv3 designed to prevent things like this?


Yes, but I don't think it applies if you can upgrade the parts of the phone that are gpl3.

So if you have program "foo" (licensed under gpl3) installed, and you can upgrade program "foo" to a modified version without breaking the phone, you are in compliance with gpl3.

Motorola is free to wedge the phone if you modify the kernel, for example - because kernel is under gpl2. It may be that the phone has no gpl3 software in the first place.

Reply Score: 3

v good thing
by kovos on Tue 20th Jul 2010 18:39 UTC
RE: good thing
by vodoomoth on Tue 20th Jul 2010 19:07 UTC in reply to "good thing"
vodoomoth Member since:
2010-03-30


those who want to root and load custom roms should get a symbian/meego device already and leave android alone.

That's a dirty egotistical attitude. And because of what? Because you are "sick of crappy incompatible roms which crash my applications and result in bad ratings."?
What happens when the Symbian and Meego devs say the same thing you say? What's the thing that prevents you from displaying a message about compatibility with modified ROMs not being guaranteed? Someone who went for an unofficial ROM is bound to expect that some things will not work as advertised. Unless they're out of their minds.

And sorry, I don't buy the "crappy incompatible roms which ... result in bad ratings". How many handsets with incompatible Android ROMs are there out there?

Oh, and if you happened to be writing apps for Symbian, you would redirect people to Android, right?

Reply Score: 4

RE[2]: good thing
by nt_jerkface on Tue 20th Jul 2010 19:37 UTC in reply to "RE: good thing"
nt_jerkface Member since:
2009-08-26

Those types of responses just send developers back to the iphone.

Motorola was probably sick of support costs related to outside roms. If you think that warnings are a solution to this problem then you are naive. People will lie about what they did to their phone and demand a refund.

Reply Score: 3

RE: good thing
by gnufreex on Tue 20th Jul 2010 19:37 UTC in reply to "good thing"
gnufreex Member since:
2010-05-06

How about you go develop for iCrap to get screwed by Steve J. instead of pushing people from Android, huh? It is not intended to be a walled garden Motorola is pushing their luck and I hope they go bankrupt. They are already losing money, this wont help.

Reply Score: 3

RE[2]: good thing
by nt_jerkface on Tue 20th Jul 2010 19:50 UTC in reply to "RE: good thing"
nt_jerkface Member since:
2009-08-26

It is not intended to be a walled garden Motorola is pushing their luck and I hope they go bankrupt.


It's their phone and they can tie it to a rom if they want. Phones should not be designed around the needs of 1% of the users.


They are already losing money, this wont help.


Not likely when Droid X is selling out everywhere:
http://www.eweek.com/c/a/Mobile-and-Wireless/Motorola-Droid-X-Gone-...

Shouldn't you be glad that a Linux based device is providing some serious competition for Apple? It's already hitting their stock:
http://www.marketwatch.com/story/apple-bruised-on-concerns-of-margi...

Reply Score: 1

RE[3]: good thing
by gnufreex on Tue 20th Jul 2010 20:10 UTC in reply to "RE[2]: good thing"
gnufreex Member since:
2010-05-06

" It is not intended to be a walled garden Motorola is pushing their luck and I hope they go bankrupt.


It's their phone and they can tie it to a rom if they want. Phones should not be designed around the needs of 1% of the users.


They are already losing money, this wont help.


Not likely when Droid X is selling out everywhere:
http://www.eweek.com/c/a/Mobile-and-Wireless/Motorola-Droid-X-Gone-...

Shouldn't you be glad that a Linux based device is providing some serious competition for Apple? It's already hitting their stock:
http://www.marketwatch.com/story/apple-bruised-on-concerns-of-margi...
"
"


Phones should be designed around needs of 100% of users. Tell me, how big is percent of people who think phones should self-destruct when manufacturer wishes so?

I am not glad tha "Linux device" is going to take over the world if that device is worse than propriatary technology it replaces.

See, I am not Linux zealot, I don't give a crap if Linux is most popular OS or not, I want compuers and phones to do what they are made for and that is why I like open source. Not becaus its cooll, or because sometingh else, I like it because gives control to the users. Computers should do what users say, and not self-destruct when manufacturer don't like you.

As for "their phone, they decide when to explode" kind of argument... NO! Android is not written by Motorola, and hardware don't belong to Motorola once they sell it. So they are not ones who should decide when it will explode. It's the user!!

And how many users like exploding phones? They should advertise it as such. They should put big red letter saying: This EXPLODES WHEN WE DECIDE!!

I wonder who will buy it when they tell the truth.

Edited 2010-07-20 20:12 UTC

Reply Score: 3

v RE[4]: good thing
by nt_jerkface on Wed 21st Jul 2010 01:05 UTC in reply to "RE[3]: good thing"
RE[5]: good thing
by artworx on Wed 21st Jul 2010 07:50 UTC in reply to "RE[4]: good thing"
artworx Member since:
2008-07-21

I am not very familiar with how a locked Android phone can be unlocked but if it requires a reflash then it would affect 99% of the people i know.

Reply Score: 1

RE[5]: good thing
by Zifre on Wed 21st Jul 2010 14:48 UTC in reply to "RE[4]: good thing"
Zifre Member since:
2009-10-04

That's impossible due to conflict of interest.

That is sometimes true, but please tell me how allowing custom ROMs harms the 99% of users that don't use them? In this case, it clearly can be designed around the interests of everyone.

They lock up if you load a foreign ROM which only matters to 1% of the population. 99% of the population doesn't even know what a ROM is.

Yes, and do 99% of the population care that it doesn't allow custom ROMs?

That wouldn't be the truth because the phone doesn't actually explode.

It was metaphorical. Please don't pretend you didn't know that.

Reply Score: 4

RE[6]: good thing
by nt_jerkface on Wed 21st Jul 2010 17:47 UTC in reply to "RE[5]: good thing"
nt_jerkface Member since:
2009-08-26


In this case, it clearly can be designed around the interests of everyone.


No it can't because most developers would rather see the ROM locked.

Reply Score: 1

RE[7]: good thing
by raboof on Thu 22nd Jul 2010 09:20 UTC in reply to "RE[6]: good thing"
raboof Member since:
2005-07-24

most developers would rather see the ROM locked.

I highly doubt this.

I know I don't - and though I don't develop for Android specifically, I wouldn't rather see it there, either.

Reply Score: 3

RE[3]: good thing
by Damnshock on Tue 20th Jul 2010 20:43 UTC in reply to "RE[2]: good thing"
Damnshock Member since:
2006-09-15

It's their phone and they can tie it to a rom if they want.


That's the thing: it is *NOT* their phone but *MINE*

Reply Score: 7

RE[4]: good thing
by fanboi_fanboi on Thu 22nd Jul 2010 13:51 UTC in reply to "RE[3]: good thing"
fanboi_fanboi Member since:
2010-04-21

Do you have your own nationwide cell towers and supporting infrastructure?

It is their phone, if you use it on their network. Read the EULA, else jailbreak it.

Reply Score: 1

RE[5]: good thing
by Damnshock on Thu 22nd Jul 2010 13:59 UTC in reply to "RE[4]: good thing"
Damnshock Member since:
2006-09-15

Do you have your own nationwide cell towers and supporting infrastructure?


What does it have to do with the phone? I don't mean they have to support me nor the rom I'm using, but the phone is mine once I've bought it and can do whatever the h*** I want with it(in Spain it is this way). Imagine you buy a knife designed to cut apples: I understand they don't encourage me to use it cutting wood but I *can* do it if I want to (or at least try). With this phone I simply can't use it the way I want(even if it's a nonsense)

It is their phone, if you use it on their network. Read the EULA, else jailbreak it.


Well, I don't have it nor I will 'cause it doesn't work on networks in Spain. However, I still don't find logical that they can force you to use something you've bought and own the way they want. Again even if is throwing it against a wall to break it! It's *your* device, not theirs!

Reply Score: 2

RE[3]: good thing
by HappyGod on Tue 20th Jul 2010 23:46 UTC in reply to "RE[2]: good thing"
HappyGod Member since:
2005-10-19

It's their phone and they can tie it to a rom if they want. Phones should not be designed around the needs of 1% of the users.


Hmm, I wonder how well they advertised the fact that that's what they were doing. Especially since the previous phone was wide open, and users naturally assumed that this phone was its successor.

Also, I don't think anyone here is arguing that they can't lock the phone to a ROM, just that it's a bit rude, and they shouldn't.

Reply Score: 3

RE[4]: good thing
by aesiamun on Wed 21st Jul 2010 01:12 UTC in reply to "RE[3]: good thing"
aesiamun Member since:
2005-06-29

The droid that was sold on the verizon network was wide open, the Milestone that was sold to Europeans and Canadians has similar functionality. It had a locked and encrypted boot loader that to this day cannot boot non moto signed roms.

You can still get root on them though.

Reply Score: 2

RE[3]: good thing
by merkoth on Wed 21st Jul 2010 15:04 UTC in reply to "RE[2]: good thing"
merkoth Member since:
2006-09-22

It's Motorola's phone? Funny, I thought it was impossible to sell stuff and remain as the owner of said stuff.

Reply Score: 3

RE: One Percent
by NemoM on Fri 23rd Jul 2010 13:01 UTC in reply to "RE[2]: good thing"
NemoM Member since:
2010-07-23

Phones should not be designed around the needs of 1% of the users.


I agree with that. Unfortunately, the phone WAS designed around the "one percent"... The phone was purposefully engineered to allow Moto to block the use of custom ROMs. If custom ROMs weren't an engineering consideration, they wouldn't have wasted time, money, and space inside the phone with the fuse.

If they want to void the warranty if I install a custom ROM, I'm fine with that. I'm sure they could more easily have something log the ROMs running on the phone, and check it if I bring it in becuase "it just stopped working". But making it unuseable if I do install a custom ROM is akin to automatically killing the engine in my auto if I open the hood and install "unapproved" spark plugs.

Here's my favorite part about your argument... Not only was the phone engineered around the "one percent", you paid for it.

Reply Score: 2

RE: good thing
by izomiac on Tue 20th Jul 2010 22:32 UTC in reply to "good thing"
izomiac Member since:
2006-07-26

It sounds like your applications are making invalid assumptions and crashing as a result. This generally results from not looking beyond "it works on my machine" and not doing proper error checking nor checking if something exists before using it. While it is a lot easier to program that way, it doesn't produce high quality code.

Getting mad at your users for giving their honest opinion of your code is counterproductive. Rather than let your programs crash, pop up an error message explaining what it is that is lacking on their OS. Then your users will pressure the ROM makers to provide that functionality.

Reply Score: 4

RE: good thing
by cmost on Wed 21st Jul 2010 01:43 UTC in reply to "good thing"
cmost Member since:
2006-07-16

as an android developer i hope most manufacturers follow motorola with this.
i'm sick of crappy incompatible roms which crash my applications and result in bad ratings.
those who want to root and load custom roms should get a symbian/meego device already and leave android alone.


Please be realistic. An Android phone (being based on Linux) is screaming for hackers to pick it apart and customize to their heart's content. If your applications are crashing on modded ROMs then maybe you should brush up your programming skills instead of blaming the very community that brought forth the likes of Linux.

Reply Score: 4

RE[2]: good thing
by nt_jerkface on Wed 21st Jul 2010 02:58 UTC in reply to "RE: good thing"
nt_jerkface Member since:
2009-08-26


Please be realistic. An Android phone (being based on Linux) is screaming for hackers to pick it apart and customize to their heart's content. If your applications are crashing on modded ROMs then maybe you should brush up your programming skills instead of blaming the very community that brought forth the likes of Linux.


OMFG are you serious? People are hacking the underlying OS and you are telling the application developer to brush up on his skills to adapt?

So if I hack a RHEL image and break compatibility with a RHEL certified program it is the developer's fault for not having the ESP required to predict my changes to the system?

Reply Score: 4

RE: good thing
by kaiwai on Wed 21st Jul 2010 05:40 UTC in reply to "good thing"
kaiwai Member since:
2005-07-06

as an android developer i hope most manufacturers follow motorola with this.
i'm sick of crappy incompatible roms which crash my applications and result in bad ratings.
those who want to root and load custom roms should get a symbian/meego device already and leave android alone.


Sweet cheeks, there is nothing stopping you from clearly stating that you will not support users who run custom ROM's on their phones. The vast majority of end users don't load custom ROM's on their phones, they stick with the status quo and receive updates from their carrier. Quite honestly you're making a mountain out of a mole hill.

Edited 2010-07-21 05:41 UTC

Reply Score: 5

RE[2]: good thing
by Dryhte on Wed 21st Jul 2010 08:06 UTC in reply to "RE: good thing"
Dryhte Member since:
2008-02-05

The vast majority of end users don't load custom ROM's on their phones, they stick with the status quo and receive updates from their carrier.


or don't receive them (like me and my trusty 'old' Samsung i7500 Galaxy).

If I couldn't install custom, unapproved roms on there I'd still be stuck with Android 1.5. A lot of the viability of Motorola's model (and the happiness of their users) hinges on their ability to keep supporting their devices through a couple of Android version updates. If I'd have a Droid X and they'd keep updating it with high quality recent firmwares, I'd not be too worried about the inability to apply custom roms; however, if they'd leave me in the cold as Samsung has, while also unable to apply my own choice of firmwares, that would surely have been my very last Motorola phone ever.

Still, I can't see why it'd be so hard for them to allow users to opt out of warranty and killswitch with a big red 'void warranty' button (preferably irreversible). I'd like to know that I have a choice in the matter.

Reply Score: 2

RE[3]: good thing
by kaiwai on Wed 21st Jul 2010 09:01 UTC in reply to "RE[2]: good thing"
kaiwai Member since:
2005-07-06

or don't receive them (like me and my trusty 'old' Samsung i7500 Galaxy).

If I couldn't install custom, unapproved roms on there I'd still be stuck with Android 1.5. A lot of the viability of Motorola's model (and the happiness of their users) hinges on their ability to keep supporting their devices through a couple of Android version updates. If I'd have a Droid X and they'd keep updating it with high quality recent firmwares, I'd not be too worried about the inability to apply custom roms; however, if they'd leave me in the cold as Samsung has, while also unable to apply my own choice of firmwares, that would surely have been my very last Motorola phone ever.

Still, I can't see why it'd be so hard for them to allow users to opt out of warranty and killswitch with a big red 'void warranty' button (preferably irreversible). I'd like to know that I have a choice in the matter.


Because some Jack Ass from New York will sue the said company for 'not adequately explaining the implication of opting out'. You can thank the US and its screwed up legal system for why obvious options aren't provided. Sue this, sue that - its a nation of f-cking idiots who sue over anything at the drop of a hat. If it isn't some idiot suing because the idiot spilt coffee over herself, its some w-nker demanding that salt and partially hydrogenated fats are banned because obviously people are too stupid to realise fast food is bad for you (shock! horror!).

I for one laugh though; all the Android fans thinking that their Jesus Phone(tm) will provide them with tonnes of freedom unlike the iPhone they so readily despise. Well, you've got a phone less than a year old - had that been an iPhone you would have received iPhoneOS 4.0 free of charge and without needing to hack your device to get it. Maybe that should be a take home message to all those who bad mouthed Apple only to get royally shafted by Motorola/HTC/etc. with no Android OS update.

Edited 2010-07-21 09:04 UTC

Reply Score: 4

RE[4]: good thing
by Dryhte on Wed 21st Jul 2010 10:28 UTC in reply to "RE[3]: good thing"
Dryhte Member since:
2008-02-05

I still hope there will be a device manufacturer in the end who sees the light and provides upgrades (maybe because his hardware is so bog standard that it's automatically supported in new versions or so), and all 'power users' will go and buy that manufacturer's handset... I know I would.

Edited 2010-07-21 10:29 UTC

Reply Score: 1

RE[4]: good thing
by sc3252 on Wed 21st Jul 2010 11:59 UTC in reply to "RE[3]: good thing"
sc3252 Member since:
2005-09-06

Lawsuits have nothing to do with them locking the boot loader, it has everything to do with money and corporate greed, also a smidgen of arrogance that users won't care. All this does is make apple look like the golden child for providing update for 2+ years. I think after hating on apple for the past 3+ years have been convinced that they care more for their customers than the Motorola's and the Samsung's. If Google was smart they would have enforced more strict guidelines for Android so this would not have happened, instead they are letting customers get screwed over by being forced to use 1.5 and 1.6 without updates while every iphone from 2007 at least has 3.0 which is very usable in comparison.

Edited 2010-07-21 12:01 UTC

Reply Score: 2

RE[4]: good thing
by dragossh on Wed 21st Jul 2010 17:02 UTC in reply to "RE[3]: good thing"
dragossh Member since:
2008-12-16

I for one laugh though; all the Android fans thinking that their Jesus Phone(tm) will provide them with tonnes of freedom unlike the iPhone they so readily despise. Well, you've got a phone less than a year old - had that been an iPhone you would have received iPhoneOS 4.0 free of charge and without needing to hack your device to get it.

With half the features gutted.

I think I'll keep my HTC Hero which is getting a decent Android 2.2 port.

Reply Score: 2

RE[5]: good thing
by kaiwai on Wed 21st Jul 2010 23:48 UTC in reply to "RE[4]: good thing"
kaiwai Member since:
2005-07-06

With half the features gutted.

I think I'll keep my HTC Hero which is getting a decent Android 2.2 port.


Unfortunately you're sh-t out of luck when it comes to Android 2.2 on that phone because HTC has refused to provide an official update. The HTC Hero was released half way through 2009 and now you'll have to throw it away and purchase a new phone if you want an official update to Android 2.2. So lets recap, iPhone 3G released in 2008 and it is still receiving official updates today versus the HTC Hero fails to release an update for a device less than a year old.

You want a decent Android 2.2 port? how about an official update given the device is only a year old! come on, a device that is a year old is considered 'ancient' and undeserving of an official update?

Edited 2010-07-21 23:52 UTC

Reply Score: 3

RE[2]: good thing
by nt_jerkface on Wed 21st Jul 2010 17:54 UTC in reply to "RE: good thing"
nt_jerkface Member since:
2009-08-26

Sweet cheeks, there is nothing stopping you from clearly stating that you will not support users who run custom ROM's on their phones.


Oh right, a warning screen solves all problems.

Just put an 21+ warning on your website and that will keep out kids and teenagers. Morality will ensure that no one will lie about their age.

Reply Score: 0

RE[3]: good thing
by kaiwai on Wed 21st Jul 2010 19:21 UTC in reply to "RE[2]: good thing"
kaiwai Member since:
2005-07-06

Oh right, a warning screen solves all problems.

Just put an 21+ warning on your website and that will keep out kids and teenagers. Morality will ensure that no one will lie about their age.


The two aren't comparable; sell your software and when they report or complain, ask them whether they're running a custom ROM (because you're unable to duplicate the error with the official ROM) and then explain that you do not support custom ROM's. You've warned them on your website, you've warned them in the marketplace and to top it off you told them via direct communication - if they didn't get the subtle hint then you simply should cut your losses and let them wallow in their own stupidity.

Edited 2010-07-21 19:24 UTC

Reply Score: 3

RE[4]: good thing
by nt_jerkface on Thu 22nd Jul 2010 17:52 UTC in reply to "RE[3]: good thing"
nt_jerkface Member since:
2009-08-26

I guess you and others here are in denial of how bad the public can be, especially when it comes to games.

It's well established that people will run pirated versions of a game and tie up support lines EVEN BEFORE THE GAME HAS BEEN RELEASED.

People will also lie about what they did to their game and claim that it's simply broken and then demand a refund.

Here's a good example from the Titan Quest developer:
http://www.quartertothree.com/game-talk/showthread.php?t=42663

Reply Score: 2

RE[5]: good thing
by stoth on Sat 24th Jul 2010 00:37 UTC in reply to "RE[4]: good thing"
stoth Member since:
2009-07-15

So you should support people who are causing problems? Maybe they should only give support to people who have verified that they bought the product. Which is one of the things you PAY for when buying something. It's their fault for giving something away for free (support).

Reply Score: 1

RE[6]: good thing
by nt_jerkface on Sat 24th Jul 2010 04:35 UTC in reply to "RE[5]: good thing"
nt_jerkface Member since:
2009-08-26

People lie about whether or not they bought they game.

People will run up support tickets before being told their hacked version isn't supported.

The only way around this problem is to close off support lines. Blaming the company here doesn't make sense.

Reply Score: 2

uggg
by poundsmack on Tue 20th Jul 2010 18:40 UTC
poundsmack
Member since:
2005-07-13

people have to understand the Motorola didn't make this thing for people to tinker with. They made it to be a polished super phone for normal people, not devs who want to play with the hardware and load custom images on it. I do a lot of embedded work and while it would be cool to use the droid x as a platform to mess around with, it's not what it was marketed towards and thats not something that will impact it's sales more than 0.01% if that.

all in all its a great phone for what it is; a consumer smart phone with a nice big screen.

Reply Score: 2

RE: uggg
by vodoomoth on Tue 20th Jul 2010 19:13 UTC in reply to "uggg"
vodoomoth Member since:
2010-03-30

... and while it would be cool to use the droid x as a platform to mess around with, it's not what it was marketed towards ...

According to what I read from the article, and if I understood it correctly, it wasn't explicitly marketed as that but the previous "version" has been known for that and people implicitly assumed the Droid X would follow the same path, although we now know these people were making assumptions based on nothing concrete.

From what I understand, the article author is blaming Motorola for (among other things) not having made it clearer that the Droid X would not allow what the Droid did allow. Now that I'm writing this, I wonder why Motorola should be blamed for false assumptions other people made about a new product.

Reply Score: 0

RE[2]: uggg
by poundsmack on Tue 20th Jul 2010 21:23 UTC in reply to "RE: uggg"
poundsmack Member since:
2005-07-13

but this is not the direct upgrade from the previous version, the Droid 2 is, and that's not out yet.

Reply Score: 2

RE[3]: uggg
by DigitalAxis on Wed 21st Jul 2010 06:39 UTC in reply to "RE[2]: uggg"
DigitalAxis Member since:
2005-08-28

And that phone is also quite probably going to be locked down securely...

I don't even think this is an issue of "just don't buy that phone"; people see desirable hardware and they want it, and want to play with it.

The thing is, the POINT of having a smartphone is that you can customize it by installing programs (in fact, isn't that the definition of 'smartphone'?) Customizing the system itself and installing completely new system files are the next logical steps in that direction, but Motorola and Apple have drawn the line there, and don't seem to appreciate why people would want to cross that line.

Ok, so adding stuff to a foundation and changing the foundation itself are different things... but they're not THAT different. You can already download and install new virtual keyboards, and those would seem to be a fundamental part of the touchscreen OS.

Reply Score: 3

False assumptions, or deliberate ploy?
by gsyoungblood on Wed 21st Jul 2010 15:40 UTC in reply to "RE: uggg"
gsyoungblood Member since:
2007-01-09

You are absolutely correct, some people are buying based on flawed assumptions. However, those assumptions are the direct result of Motorola, now admittedly, deliberately making the original Droid basically an open device and attracting the very community they now hold in disregard.

The only people I find any fault with for buying under false assumptions are those that know about being locked out and are counting on the community to find a way around them to re-enable things later.

Personally, I'd have no problem with the entire secured stack, eFuse included, if Motorola _AND_ Verizon would commit to unlocking everything in 6 to 12 months. But I'm betting they won't do that.

Part of the reason I wrote this article is that the ability to update the software is crucial to the longevity of the hardware in general. You can't trust/rely on Motorola (and to a degree Verizon) to always release version updates. It's counter productive for them, since upgrading device software lessens the motivations to get people to buy new devices.

Think that's unlikely? http://bit.ly/azy80x reports that FroYo, 2.2, is uncertain for the Droid Milestone. It still might happen, but if it does it appears unlikely it will be a timely update. Since the Milestone is locked using similar or the same techniques as the Droid X, I think it sets a bad precedent for future Motorola phones, including the Droid X. The community can put 2.2 on the original Droid and, curiously enough, Motorola will as well. The community is locked out of the Milestone, and Motorola's not sure they'll upgrade it. A pattern for the future? Only time will tell.

Reply Score: 2

RE: uggg
by gnufreex on Tue 20th Jul 2010 19:26 UTC in reply to "uggg"
gnufreex Member since:
2010-05-06

people have to understand the Motorola didn't make this thing for people to tinker with

And for what they made it? To explode into people's faces?

This kind of things should be illegal, end of story!! Any try to defend Motorola should be considered frivolous. There is no excuse. They are over the top with this one and should be boycotted until they are out of business.

I am so pissed of right now that I could explode. I am this >< close to buying the phone and making it selfdistruct, and then starting a class action against Motorola.

Reply Score: 2

RE[2]: uggg
by tylerdurden on Tue 20th Jul 2010 19:44 UTC in reply to "RE: uggg"
tylerdurden Member since:
2009-03-17

Dude you need to take a deep breath, chill out, and start pondering the need to reconsider your priorities in life.


It is a freaking phone.

Reply Score: 2

RE[3]: uggg
by gnufreex on Tue 20th Jul 2010 19:49 UTC in reply to "RE[2]: uggg"
gnufreex Member since:
2010-05-06

It is a freakin' phone. And I need to have phone, unfortunately. If this crap goes through and all manufacturers start making exploding phones, I could be left with no phone to buy in the future. So it's a big deal!!

I will never buy exploding phone!

Reply Score: 1

RE[4]: uggg
by poundsmack on Tue 20th Jul 2010 21:29 UTC in reply to "RE[3]: uggg"
poundsmack Member since:
2005-07-13

</sarcasm>
Ya this is an outrage! Motorola has gone too far with their phone restrictions and crazy practices preventing uses frmo doing whatever the hell they want with their phone! I am going to go to a vendor that let's me do anything i want with it, I am getting an iPhone! That will show them!
</sarcasm>

If you want a dev platform go buy a beagle board. if you want a phone, get a phone.

Reply Score: 0

RE[4]: uggg
by polaris20 on Tue 20th Jul 2010 21:53 UTC in reply to "RE[3]: uggg"
polaris20 Member since:
2005-07-06

the phone is not going to explode, quit exaggerating. It works just fine as a phone, and is a very capable smart phone.

If you want so badly to have a phone to mod, go buy an N900. Nevermind that the software selection sucks, that it's only available on T-Mobile in the US, and the screen positively sucks.

Reply Score: 3

RE[5]: uggg
by dizzey on Tue 20th Jul 2010 22:14 UTC in reply to "RE[4]: uggg"
dizzey Member since:
2005-10-15

already done that but i don't really agree about software selection. sure there are not any apps for fake drinking beer and such.
but god video calls with skype over wifi and 3g. Real web browser .
i got cups for printing emails and photos to the network printer.
i dont miss much in the geochaching area.
god media player with webm support.
for games sure there are not many native but then i can play ps1 n64 games (and yes use a decent controller over bluetooth).
and for math i have octave cant really have anything more powerful (ok matlab but that i can do over ssh the few cases i need to)

and thats just for the native rom

i can run android on it to so then i will have those apps to. and sone we will have the meego roms so i am not worried that there will be no new software for this phone until the hardware gets to slow

Reply Score: 4

RE[4]: uggg
by nt_jerkface on Wed 21st Jul 2010 01:02 UTC in reply to "RE[3]: uggg"
nt_jerkface Member since:
2009-08-26


I will never buy exploding phone!


Buy a dozen of them, strap them to your body and run into the verizon store yelling STALLMAN AKBAR and then blow yourself up.

Reply Score: 2

v RE[5]: uggg
by fanboi_fanboi on Thu 22nd Jul 2010 13:54 UTC in reply to "RE[4]: uggg"
RE[6]: uggg
by Wintermute on Fri 23rd Jul 2010 10:59 UTC in reply to "RE[5]: uggg"
Wintermute Member since:
2005-07-30

And American culture teaches you that you can sell your children into sexual slavery, if the cost benefit analysis works you!

See, two people can play this game! ;)

Reply Score: 2

RE[2]: uggg
by Soulbender on Thu 22nd Jul 2010 03:03 UTC in reply to "RE: uggg"
Soulbender Member since:
2005-08-18

The only thing over the top here is your opinion. Illegal? Frivolous? It explodes? Seriously, get a fricken grip on reality. Just get another phone and move on.

Reply Score: 1

RE: uggg
by werpu on Wed 21st Jul 2010 07:39 UTC in reply to "uggg"
werpu Member since:
2006-01-18

people have to understand the Motorola didn't make this thing for people to tinker with. They made it to be a polished super phone for normal people, not devs who want to play with the hardware and load custom images on it. I do a lot of embedded work and while it would be cool to use the droid x as a platform to mess around with, it's not what it was marketed towards and thats not something that will impact it's sales more than 0.01% if that.

all in all its a great phone for what it is; a consumer smart phone with a nice big screen.


Motorola made this so people are prevented to tinker with their phone. Their locking of the bootloader and other measures are artificial timebombs to retire the phone support and force people to buy the next phone. It is as simple as that. Phones have become so powerful over the last 2 years that the OS does not bring the phones to their limit. One way to enforce people buy a new phone is to block them to install the latest shiny updates on the phones themselves.
Motorola is not alone in this, basically everyone does it, it is just that Motorola has the strongest protection on unlocking and has had since the Milestone. The sad thing is, that contracts usually run for two years and people should be able to get OS updates and fixes for exactly this period, but most vendors including Motorola usually drop support within 6-12 months with one big update in between if at all (Samsung usually does nothing at all)

The problem is not that the phone is rendered obsolete, but since Android could not be considered feature complete before 2.2 and still in some small areas is not it is vital go get those updates.
So for Motorola it makes a lot of sense to put such a time bomb in, for the user well less, because after all after a year he is basically screwed with one year left to go on his contract. (The Milestone users have had exactly that situation, they still wait for a bugfix update to fix the worst bugs, and Motorola now leaves them hanging dry with no 2.2 and a locked bootloader on an unrootable phone)

Reply Score: 3

RE[2]: uggg
by nt_jerkface on Wed 21st Jul 2010 17:55 UTC in reply to "RE: uggg"
nt_jerkface Member since:
2009-08-26


Motorola made this so people are prevented to tinker with their phone. Their locking of the bootloader and other measures are artificial timebombs to retire the phone support and force people to buy the next phone. It is as simple as that.


No it isn't that simple, pirates have been making use of them as well.

Reply Score: 2

RE[3]: uggg
by werpu on Thu 22nd Jul 2010 15:05 UTC in reply to "RE[2]: uggg"
werpu Member since:
2006-01-18

"
Motorola made this so people are prevented to tinker with their phone. Their locking of the bootloader and other measures are artificial timebombs to retire the phone support and force people to buy the next phone. It is as simple as that.


No it isn't that simple, pirates have been making use of them as well.
"


God riddance nowadays everyone tries to justify every stupid action by preventing piracy guess what. Almost literally every Android phone out there can be unlocked one way or the other, some officially like the N1 or the G1 some unofficially (the rest which is not branded Motorola), only Motorola has encrypted its bootloader since the Milestone. Ask the Milestone users in Europe which phone they are not going to buy, guess what the name of the manufacturer starts with a big M. The entire action just is pure corporate greed on Motorolas side and is just an artificial timebomb, too bad that this wont help them because over here they are loosing customers already who have been screwed once, the same will happen in the US once Motorola stops updating the Droid X and Milestone 2.
And no it has nothing to do with piracy!

Reply Score: 3

RE[4]: uggg
by nt_jerkface on Thu 22nd Jul 2010 18:00 UTC in reply to "RE[3]: uggg"
nt_jerkface Member since:
2009-08-26

Allowing custom ROMS makes piracy easier.

Are you going to deny this?

Reply Score: 1

RE[5]: uggg
by WorknMan on Thu 22nd Jul 2010 19:17 UTC in reply to "RE[4]: uggg"
WorknMan Member since:
2005-11-13

Allowing custom ROMS makes piracy easier.

Are you going to deny this?


Yes. It's quite trivial to install pirated apps on a non-rooted phone with the vendor-supplied OS. Just enable installing from outside sources, download a .apk file from the dark web, feed it to your phone, and you're good to go. I do it myself, but only because I don't like having my credit card charged for the 24-hour trial, and I always buy the apps I like. I do not condone piracy. (Note: My phone was rooted about a week ago, but I haven't installed any custom roms yet.)

BTW: The DroidX has been rooted:
http://www.engadget.com/2010/07/22/droid-x-can-now-be-counted-among...

Edited 2010-07-22 19:23 UTC

Reply Score: 3

The Arms Race Continues...
by bornagainenguin on Thu 22nd Jul 2010 20:12 UTC in reply to "RE[5]: uggg"
bornagainenguin Member since:
2005-08-07

WorknMan announced...



...and now back to Motorola's side of the field where their team of engineers will attempt to hold up their end of the whack-a-mole game. There's a David and Goliath fight if there ever were one! On this side the handful of over worked and underpaid Motorola engineers, on that side a teaming mass of people all determined to have an unfettered mini-computer that can do phone calls with nothing but time on their side...

Heh. It hardly seems fair does it? Of course just because its been rooted doesn't mean the trouble is over, on the contrary it means the struggle has just begun!

--bornagainpenguin

PS: Link seems to be down for some reason...anyone else having this issue or is it just me?

Reply Score: 2

RE[6]: uggg
by nt_jerkface on Sat 24th Jul 2010 04:27 UTC in reply to "RE[5]: uggg"
nt_jerkface Member since:
2009-08-26

Yes. It's quite trivial to install pirated apps on a non-rooted phone with the vendor-supplied OS.


Custom ROMs allow apps to be stored on the sd disk along with an archive of pirated games. So yes allowing custom ROMs makes piracy easier.


Just enable installing from outside sources, download a .apk file from the dark web, feed it to your phone, and you're good to go.


Yes I am quite aware of how easy it is. Google really screwed up by offering little protection for developers.


BTW: The DroidX has been rooted:


Well the bootloader hasn't been cracked yet so don't get too excited.

But to really lock down a device like a phone the OS and apps need to be tied together. The PS3 uses a well designed model where even if the firmware is someday hacked a newer game or psn access can require a firmware overwrite.

Reply Score: 2

RE[7]: uggg
by dizzey on Sat 24th Jul 2010 09:51 UTC in reply to "RE[6]: uggg"
dizzey Member since:
2005-10-15

"Custom ROMs allow apps to be stored on the sd disk along with an archive of pirated games. So yes allowing custom ROMs makes piracy easier. "

that would be more flexible it still easy to pirate the apps and the internal storage are massive. so saying that the modified roms simplify just aint true.

the real purpose is to get folks to buy new phones more often that is the way Motorola makes money, well unless people cant se through their schemes and don't buy phones that wont get updates.

Reply Score: 1

RE[7]: uggg
by Zifre on Sat 24th Jul 2010 17:57 UTC in reply to "RE[6]: uggg"
Zifre Member since:
2009-10-04

Custom ROMs allow apps to be stored on the sd disk along with an archive of pirated games. So yes allowing custom ROMs makes piracy easier.

I suppose that is marginally easier, but by no means does it increase piracy by any significant amount.

Yes I am quite aware of how easy it is. Google really screwed up by offering little protection for developers.

No, Google did the right thing by not requiring developer to pay $99 to try development *cough Apple cough*

And by the way, I am a developer. I don't want or need any such "protection".

But to really lock down a device like a phone the OS and apps need to be tied together. The PS3 uses a well designed model where even if the firmware is someday hacked a newer game or psn access can require a firmware overwrite.

I really hope you aren't suggesting that this is a good model to follow...

Reply Score: 2

RE[5]: uggg
by werpu on Fri 23rd Jul 2010 13:50 UTC in reply to "RE[4]: uggg"
werpu Member since:
2006-01-18

Allowing custom ROMS makes piracy easier.

Are you going to deny this?


It is as easy as on any rom, you just have to disable the setting for install roms only from well known resources, after that it is just uploading the apk and starting the install process, it is nothing more or nothing less. Sorry but you dont have a clear picture about android :-)
It does not make any difference if it is a custom rom or anything else, and sorry Motorola currently is the only vendor who seriously locks the bootloaders all others are easily hackable and some totally open.

Reply Score: 2

Comment by moondino
by moondino on Tue 20th Jul 2010 18:41 UTC
moondino
Member since:
2010-03-27

This sucks for reasons not related to piracy: I upgraded my Droid to Froyo early. Droid X? Screwed. You are at the mercy of the service provider to update their bundled crap (Sense UI etc), test it, and then deploy Froyo to your phone.

I completely understand why they did it (app store sales aren't great) but it just seems a bit tightfisted. Oh well, one of the benefits of the Android platform is, if Motorola isn't doing what you want, go to HTC, or whoever.

Reply Score: 2

RE: Comment by moondino
by aesiamun on Wed 21st Jul 2010 01:16 UTC in reply to "Comment by moondino"
aesiamun Member since:
2005-06-29

What does changing your ROM have to do with App Store sales?

Reply Score: 2

RE[2]: Comment by moondino
by kaiwai on Wed 21st Jul 2010 05:46 UTC in reply to "RE: Comment by moondino"
kaiwai Member since:
2005-07-06

What does changing your ROM have to do with App Store sales?


Some carriers block phones running custom ROM's that aren't blessed by the carrier - and he said 'app store' not 'App Store' (note the fact that he didn't use capitals, hence not referring to Apple's 'App Store') - he obviously was referring to the 'Android Marketplace'

Reply Score: 2

RE[3]: Comment by moondino
by aesiamun on Wed 21st Jul 2010 14:17 UTC in reply to "RE[2]: Comment by moondino"
aesiamun Member since:
2005-06-29

I stand by my question...what does changing the ROM have to do with Marketplace sales or lack thereof?

Reply Score: 2

RE[4]: Comment by moondino
by kaiwai on Wed 21st Jul 2010 19:18 UTC in reply to "RE[3]: Comment by moondino"
kaiwai Member since:
2005-07-06

I stand by my question...what does changing the ROM have to do with Marketplace sales or lack thereof?


Because if they block non-authorised ROM installations, these custom ROM implementations become popular, as a developer your potential customer base shrinks because of it. I would have thought it was pretty obvious.

Reply Score: 2

RE[5]: Comment by moondino
by aesiamun on Wed 21st Jul 2010 19:24 UTC in reply to "RE[4]: Comment by moondino"
aesiamun Member since:
2005-06-29


Because if they block non-authorised ROM installations, these custom ROM implementations become popular, as a developer your potential customer base shrinks because of it. I would have thought it was pretty obvious.


Why block custom rom implementations? Just say up front that this is not supported under custom roms...blocking is a terrible way of garnering any support.

And that, I would have thought, was a pretty obvious move.

Edited 2010-07-21 19:24 UTC

Reply Score: 3

RE[6]: Comment by moondino
by kaiwai on Wed 21st Jul 2010 23:37 UTC in reply to "RE[5]: Comment by moondino"
kaiwai Member since:
2005-07-06

Why block custom rom implementations? Just say up front that this is not supported under custom roms...blocking is a terrible way of garnering any support.

And that, I would have thought, was a pretty obvious move.


The Android Marketplace might block them but Android doesn't stop you from manually loading the applications outside of the Android marketplace. They block it because if something goes wrong then the carrier, application vendor, or Google is hounded by the person with the custom ROM. It is up to the software vendor to sell through the Marketplace, outside the Marketplace or both.

Reply Score: 2

Almost waited for the Droid X, Glad I Didn't
by jrash on Tue 20th Jul 2010 18:48 UTC
jrash
Member since:
2008-10-28

My AT&T contract expired last month (from selling my soul to AT&T/Apple 2 years ago) so I switched to Verizon and got the original Droid. It's a really well made phone that you can tinker with and it gave me a new found respect for Motorola, unfortunately bricking phones and forcing people to use Motoblur is not what I had in mind, oh well.

Reply Score: 2

What Motorola Doesn't Realize
by ben.kank on Tue 20th Jul 2010 19:37 UTC
ben.kank
Member since:
2010-07-20

Although the people that load custom roms are relatively small. We do influence the purchasing decisions of the people we interact with. My wife, 3 cousins, brother, mother and father all use HTC products because I recommended them and I recommended them because I can load custom roms. While they personally might not engage in loading custom roms they do rely on me to help them make their purchases. My sister in law was interested in the original Droid and after my recommendation she bought it. One of the three cousins who I had convinced to previously buy an HTC phone saw my sister in laws phone just recently and asked me whether he should get the Motorola Droid X or the HTC Droid Incredible as an upgrade. Naturally I told him the Incredible. So to say that the development communities opinion and involvement with your products doesn't matter is terribly short sighted. I was really looking forward to buying an American made phone. Especially in these hard economic times when jobs for programmers like me are getting scarcer and scarcer. I was a couple of clicks away from ordering the Droid X until I heard about FuseGate. While I understand Motorola's motives for locking down their ROM I don't understand their rationale. They were on the the verge of convincing this long time HTC customer to come over to their side. Then they botched the whole deal over what is at worse harmless and at best a sales multiplier. I really hope they change their mind on this matter for Droid 2 because they are leaving money on the table. If they are really worried about warranty claims leave the efuse in but allow the buyer to call motorola and unlock their phone with the proviso that they invalidate their warranty by doing so.

Edited 2010-07-20 19:51 UTC

Reply Score: 5

RE: What Motorola Doesn't Realize
by Soulbender on Thu 22nd Jul 2010 03:06 UTC in reply to "What Motorola Doesn't Realize"
Soulbender Member since:
2005-08-18

I recommended them and I recommended them because I can load custom roms.


So wait, you recommend phones for them based on features that they don't need and will never use?

Reply Score: 2

RE: What Motorola Doesn't Realize
by WereCatf on Thu 22nd Jul 2010 08:57 UTC in reply to "What Motorola Doesn't Realize"
WereCatf Member since:
2006-02-15

My wife, 3 cousins, brother, mother and father all use HTC products because I recommended them and I recommended them because I can load custom roms. While they personally might not engage in loading custom roms they do rely on me to help them make their purchases

You should consider THEIR needs, not your own needs or tastes, and only then recommend something. If they don't need the ability to load custom ROMs and don't benefit from it but you still recommend a phone with such an ability just because you personally happen to like that feature then you've just done a bad recommendation.

Reply Score: 2

well for now it's super
by dizzey on Tue 20th Jul 2010 19:38 UTC
dizzey
Member since:
2005-10-15

The problem i have with this is that yes it is a super phone now and in a year it is a decent phone. then comes year 3 and now it is a crappy phone becus the software is really old and useless.

Mabye motorola will continue to bring out newer android version ot this phone mabye they dont. if i buy a phone now i still want it to be decent in three years not somthing that still have decent hardware but cant find any good applications to becus everything is made for newer versions of android.

this is one area where the iphone is good the first gen iphone just got phased out but then it has many years on it's back

this is why i hated win ce phone ms realesed new versions all the time but the phones got few updates you had to buy a new phone every year to be able to get new software.

Reply Score: 2

organgtool
Member since:
2010-02-25

Motorola prevents us from loading custom ROM's onto the Droid X, so does that mean that they will support the phone with all of the latest software promptly after new versions of Android are released? Most buyers of these phones are tied into two year contracts yet it is becoming all too common for phone manufacturers to ditch software support for their devices well before that two year period is up. Since the carriers lock us into two year contracts, I think the carriers should lock the phone manufacturers into supporting all new Android releases until all of the two year contracts have expired.

Reply Score: 3

WorknMan Member since:
2005-11-13

Motorola prevents us from loading custom ROM's onto the Droid X, so does that mean that they will support the phone with all of the latest software promptly after new versions of Android are released?


This. As it stands now, some users with phones that are incapable of running the latest Android version are stuck at 1.x, because the vendor has abandoned them.

For those of you who are defending Motorola on this one, imagine if you bought a PC with Windows or Linux installed, and they locked it down such that you couldn't upgrade/change the OS until (or even if) the vendor decided they would allow you to upgrade? How long would you put up with that before you started raising hell? If you think about what a a smartphone is, it's a pocket-sized PC. So if you wouldn't put up with it on a PC, don't put up with it on a smartphone either!

Sure, Motorola has a right to lock down the ROM, but people also have a right to bitch about it too. This is absolutely INEXCUSABLE.

Edited 2010-07-20 20:27 UTC

Reply Score: 6

elsewhere Member since:
2005-07-13

For those of you who are defending Motorola on this one, imagine if you bought a PC with Windows or Linux installed, and they locked it down such that you couldn't upgrade/change the OS until (or even if) the vendor decided they would allow you to upgrade? How long would you put up with that before you started raising hell?


This already happens. When MS releases a new version of Windows, you're often at the mercy of the OEM to release drivers if you want your system supported. You can surf through any major OEMs "support" forums to find complaints from disgruntled users unable to immediately upgrade to the latest and greatest.

As for linux, if you purchase a system with linux pre-installed and it happen to have binary drivers (think Intel Poulsbo or whatever it's called), you're even more screwed since the driver could be tied to a particular kernel version and you're at the mercy of the OEM for updates.

Motorola isn't out to intentionally screw the fractional portion of Android users that play with custom ROMs. They're most likely yielding to Verizon, the company that turned down exclusivity with the iPhone because Apple wouldn't grant them the control they wanted.

It sucks that Motorola goes to great lengths to lock down the phone, but at the same time, they're not representing the phone as an open platform. If you like what the Droid X offers, buy the phone. If you want to tinker, don't. That simple. There is no explicit or implied sense of entitlement for Motorola to enable one to hack it.

Frankly, for anyone in the droid community to jump on a new phone without waiting to see if the xda-devs can crack it, is simply gambling.

Google offered a high-end phone that was friendly to hackers. It tanked, which is a shame, because I really like my N1. The reality is most people want the benefit of a provider subsidy, and in those cases the vendor will dictate the terms of the platform.

It would be interesting to see the interest if Moto offered an unlocked version of the Droid X at full retail price, that users could switch ROMs at their heart's content. My guess is it would tank. Because frankly the majority of users don't care.

The problem isn't the vendors locking their phones, it's the lack of compatibility with the networks in the US that inhibits true competition. Verizon can dictate the terms of their handsets simply because they are number one and there is no true CDMA competition, who are you going to move your phone to?. In Canada, you can buy an unlocked iPhone from Apple that will work on any of the major providers, but for anyone in the US, it would still be tied to AT&T since it's the only network compatible with the 3G frequencies, lest you settle for Edge on TMob, etc. Most smart phones simply don't have the hardware capacity to move among US networks without offering compromises.

Don't hate the player, hate the system. If the manufacturers could produce a handset that would work on multiple networks to full effect, they'd have more leverage to control the platform. By having to produce distinct models to work with particular networks, they lose that leverage. That's the basic reason Nokia is non-existent in the US market, but prevalent everywhere else.

Moral of the story? Don't by an X if you want to hack, at least until the dev community has found a bypass. Buy an N1 instead. Or wait until the N1 is disco'd, and Google chooses their next developer platform model, which rumour has it will be from Motorola anyways. It will be full price, but if you're looking for a provider subsidy instead, then it will be at the provider's terms.

Reply Score: 3

james_parker Member since:
2005-06-29


This already happens. When MS releases a new version of Windows, you're often at the mercy of the OEM to release drivers if you want your system supported. You can surf through any major OEMs "support" forums to find complaints from disgruntled users unable to immediately upgrade to the latest and greatest.

As for linux, if you purchase a system with linux pre-installed and it happen to have binary drivers (think Intel Poulsbo or whatever it's called), you're even more screwed since the driver could be tied to a particular kernel version and you're at the mercy of the OEM for updates.


This is not the same at all. In these cases no one has active expended resources to block the use; rather they have simply not expended resources to support the upgrade -- in some cases they plan to support the upgrade at some point, in others they do not.

In contrast, Motorola has expended substantial resources to block changes or upgrades.

Motorola isn't out to intentionally screw the fractional portion of Android users that play with custom ROMs. They're most likely yielding to Verizon [...]


If that's the case, then they could (and should) point this out and redirect the complaints they are receiving to Verizon. Some might suggest that there are confidentiality clauses in the contract between Motorola and Verizon; if that's indeed the case and it covers this information then Verizon certainly bears some of the responsibility and deserves criticism.

Reply Score: 1

license_2_blather Member since:
2006-02-05

I'd love to buy an N1. My g/f already has Froyo on hers, and I am still waiting on my Incredible (the roms aren't quite mature enough yet for my tastes).

But I don't want to switch from Verizon, as their coverage is better where I live. So no N1 for me.

Reply Score: 1

-APT-
Member since:
2007-03-20

At the moment the Nexus One probably still a favourite to Android users who want as much flexibility in running what they want, but which next generation devices are we supposed to get?

I've got an HTC Hero, and I'll be ready for an upgrade in the next few months. I'll probably wait until Android 3.0 is here, and I'll want a device which is considered to be a successor to the Nexus One. I want to be able to root it, to run whatever firmware I want, with fanatic support with Android operating system updates.

Is anyone going to provide me with such a phone?

This is my fear with Android, they started off with great phones which were pretty open, now we're getting locked phones where the users are restricted with what they can run. Newer Android phones need to be hacked in some way to get full access to them, compared to the Nexus One where a few legitimate commands will give you full control over the device.

Supposedly Google aren't going to sell a successor to the Nexus One. Personally I'm not too sure on this, they'll need a device to test out the next generation of Android with, a developer device which they may only sell in a similar way to the G1 - to registered users only.

I'm willing to pay the full upfront cost for my next Android device - if the right one comes along. However it seems like all the current manufacturers are more interested taking steps backwards in terms of what we can do with Android phones.

Reply Score: 2

DigitalAxis Member since:
2005-08-28

One would hope that if the situation gets bad, Google will get someone to make a Nexus 2, or hold a manufacturer's hand as they did with the Motorola Droid 1.

As it is, I've decided I need to get a phone based on what it can do NOW, and not count on future updates to make things better. If they happen, great.

That said, I am counting the potential firmware lock against the Droid 2 (it has substantially the same hardware as the Droid X, and Motorola has promised the Droid 1 was a fluke) in my own internal battle of Droid 2 vs Samsung Epic 4G (vs waiting even longer for T-Mobile to get something worth buying)

Reply Score: 2

werpu Member since:
2006-01-18

One would hope that if the situation gets bad, Google will get someone to make a Nexus 2, or hold a manufacturer's hand as they did with the Motorola Droid 1.

As it is, I've decided I need to get a phone based on what it can do NOW, and not count on future updates to make things better. If they happen, great.

That said, I am counting the potential firmware lock against the Droid 2 (it has substantially the same hardware as the Droid X, and Motorola has promised the Droid 1 was a fluke) in my own internal battle of Droid 2 vs Samsung Epic 4G (vs waiting even longer for T-Mobile to get something worth buying)


T-Mobile does not manufacture themselves, they just rebrand like everyone else, in the end they just rebrand something from HTC and Co. So far the safest bet for long term support still is and probably will be for the forseeable future until Google brings out the next dev phone the Nexus One. Google still is going to sell it over the dev shop instead of the official shop and the phones will be sold over the phone carriers also for the forseeable future.

Reply Score: 3

werpu Member since:
2006-01-18

At the moment the Nexus One probably still a favourite to Android users who want as much flexibility in running what they want, but which next generation devices are we supposed to get?

I've got an HTC Hero, and I'll be ready for an upgrade in the next few months. I'll probably wait until Android 3.0 is here, and I'll want a device which is considered to be a successor to the Nexus One. I want to be able to root it, to run whatever firmware I want, with fanatic support with Android operating system updates.

Is anyone going to provide me with such a phone?

This is my fear with Android, they started off with great phones which were pretty open, now we're getting locked phones where the users are restricted with what they can run. Newer Android phones need to be hacked in some way to get full access to them, compared to the Nexus One where a few legitimate commands will give you full control over the device.

Supposedly Google aren't going to sell a successor to the Nexus One. Personally I'm not too sure on this, they'll need a device to test out the next generation of Android with, a developer device which they may only sell in a similar way to the G1 - to registered users only.

I'm willing to pay the full upfront cost for my next Android device - if the right one comes along. However it seems like all the current manufacturers are more interested taking steps backwards in terms of what we can do with Android phones.


Actually the Android phones were never open, the only devices which were were the G1 dev phone, the Droid (the Milestone already has the crippled bootloader, which is the GSM version of the Droid) and the Nexus one. In all three cases Google was the reason for the phones being semi open.
My personal guess is, that google always will have one dev phone or the other, as reference platform as long as it is important. I expect the development to slow down significantly post Android 3.0. Face it the OS with 2.2 has become more or less feature complete 3.0 will bring following, totally overhauled UI and modularisation, which means lots of the infrastructure will be updatable over the shop, after that having to upgrade to the latest Android OS will not be as important as it is anymore. I also do not expect Google to update the N1 anythime soon. Google soon will start to sell the N1 as next official dev phone over their dev shop and the hardware still has not outlived its full potential, it simply is that good, that there are still some untapped features left like 720p recording and Radio and also real 3d acceleration on the UI side of things.

So if you want to stay on the safe side, my bet is the N1 still will be the phone until end 2012 after that Google might roll the next generation of dev phones. As for the rest of the manufacturers simply it is like that either buy it and be left alone after 6-8 months or simply do not buy it no matter how flashy and shiny their stuff seems to be.

Reply Score: 2

The same ole motorola :(
by viator on Tue 20th Jul 2010 21:34 UTC
viator
Member since:
2005-10-11

One of the many reasons im a fan of andriod and the phones they are on is because it increses the lifespan of the phone this is read <decreases sales> These phones as users have posted are like mini pc's. Its not all about the hardware software is where all the functionality comes from. If i can upgrade the functionality of my phone by flashing a new rom that makes the phone more valuable to me. If motorola were honest they would sell a phone that you CAN customize and charge a bit more and one you CANT but make sure its known to be crippled. But instead they are being dishonest and underhanded and are alienating the very people who made the droid and android in general what it is today.

Reply Score: 3

Car, computer, cell phone analogies
by FunkyELF on Tue 20th Jul 2010 21:44 UTC
FunkyELF
Member since:
2006-07-26

People accept stuff from the computer industry that they would never accept from the auto industry.

People accept stuff from the mobile industry that they would never accept from the computer industry.

It would be like Apple remote detonating your MacBook if they saw you were running Windows or Linux on it.

Reply Score: 5

Palm does it right
by jokkel on Tue 20th Jul 2010 23:33 UTC
jokkel
Member since:
2008-07-07

Palm does it best. It s really easy to enable the developer mode to be able to install unsigned software. Homebrew is even encouraged.

I think the version fragmentation and issues like these will hurt Android more and more. This opens a window of opportunity for Nokia with the N900 and Palm.

A lot of Android devices are just as locked down as the iPhone is. You first have to hack your phone to get root access and run unsigned software.

Reply Score: 3

android is about all kinds of choices
by ari-free on Wed 21st Jul 2010 03:18 UTC
ari-free
Member since:
2007-01-22

HTC and samsung have no problems with custom roms so just go with them if you want custom roms. Android is about all kinds of choices and some of them will be more open than others. Some people (content providers, govt/corporations) will be more attracted to droid x because of this feature and android shouldn't be shut out of those opportunities.

Reply Score: 4

Not phones anymore
by sc3252 on Wed 21st Jul 2010 04:52 UTC
sc3252
Member since:
2005-09-06

These are not phones anymore, they are computers. The phone makers are treating them like phones though, I am sorry to tell everyone but this phone will be abandoned in a year or 2, something only one company is not doing(apple), which is why many people are up in arms over this. If there were custom roms it wouldn't matter if it was abandoned, since the community would update it, just like what is happening with every capable android phone that isn't locked down.

PS: I hate apple, but the way that phone makers treat their customers I am very tempted to buy a new iphone...

Reply Score: 3

Motorola - Europe
by werpu on Wed 21st Jul 2010 07:06 UTC
werpu
Member since:
2006-01-18

Well Motorola already had the Milestone (Droid - GSM UMTS Version) bootloader locked. Needless to say the phone was not that much of a megaseller. Even worse if you look into the forums the people who bought the phone now are pretty pissed because Motorola is going to stop support with 2.1 (2.1 adds the vital Tethering and Jit compiler functionality + flash) and is not going to open the phones bootloader. Those are customers lost to Motorola in the long run. Burned once, never buy again unless they change. I am so glad that I bought a Nexus One, it is not the best phone, it has a shitty touchscreen, but the openness is better than anything else on the market and I probably can expect official upgrades for the entire 2011 at least and backports 2012+. The N1 is the PC of phones, totally open if you want it to, with a good os underneath, but some weaknesses. I prefer that approach to anything else.
As for Motorola with their Milestone shennanigans and their locking behavior they just dropped out of my potential buy list for the forseeable future.

Reply Score: 2

You've got any statistics of your claims?
by pfortuny on Wed 21st Jul 2010 12:47 UTC
pfortuny
Member since:
2006-02-05

Otherwise all your "there is a bunch of", "a market of"... turns out to be bs. pure and fresh.

Reply Score: 2

why is this news?
by nbensa on Wed 21st Jul 2010 14:14 UTC
nbensa
Member since:
2005-08-29

Motorola Milestone also has this eFuse thing. You can't run custom kernel/firmware on it.

Milestone was sold as the gsm version of the Droid (which CAN run custom kernels) but it is NOT.

I wrote to Thom about the Milestone months ago, but he ignored me.

Reply Score: 1

RE: why is this news?
by werpu on Thu 22nd Jul 2010 14:55 UTC in reply to "why is this news?"
werpu Member since:
2006-01-18

Motorola Milestone also has this eFuse thing. You can't run custom kernel/firmware on it.

Milestone was sold as the gsm version of the Droid (which CAN run custom kernels) but it is NOT.

I wrote to Thom about the Milestone months ago, but he ignored me.

The Milestone was not very successful here in Europe it never became the Megaseller the Droid was in the USA, the funny thing is the more open Nexus One and Desire Phones sell like hotcakes over here. In the meantime the users who have the milestone over here are absolutely pissed about the bootloader issue and most of them are lost customers to Motorola in the long run (Motorola has been reluctant with bugfix updates on the Milestone as well). Speaking on being on a self destruction course, Motorola definitely is on one.

Reply Score: 3

Comment by Morgan
by Morgan on Wed 21st Jul 2010 14:27 UTC
Morgan
Member since:
2005-06-29

"Disabling legally purchased phones because the user attempts to update or otherwise modify the phone is just like General Motors shutting down the ignition system of a car because the owner changed their own oil. That kind of built-in sabotage is not tolerated with cars, or any other physical goods, and neither should it be tolerated from Motorola."

Actually it is tolerated when it comes to inkjet printer ink. Have you tried to refill an Epson or HP cartridge lately? Once the chip in the cartridge registers it as empty (and often does so with 20% or more ink left) the printer will, from that moment on, see that cartridge as empty. It's possible to reset the chip in some cases, but often that requires reverse-engineering the chip or using expensive equipment.

Even businesses like Cartridge World who make a living refilling cartridges are affected; recent HP cartridges have to be "rigged" by them and still register as non-genuine with the printer.

Given all this, and combined with the exorbitant prices of inkjet cartridges today, one would think there would be a national outcry, or at least a response on par with the Droid X controversy within the tech/geek sector. But no, this has been happening for years and it's treated as an acceptable gouging.

Sadly, the only affordable alternative is to use two laser printers; a monochrome laser for high volume text-only printing and a color laser for the occasional photo or graphic. Even though this setup is more affordable over a long period of time, its initial cost is very high and the setup itself is unwieldy and inelegant.

Edited 2010-07-21 14:29 UTC

Reply Score: 3

RE: Comment by Morgan
by Tuishimi on Wed 21st Jul 2010 16:11 UTC in reply to "Comment by Morgan"
Tuishimi Member since:
2005-07-06

I do like my little Brother laser printer... but no color. ;)

Reply Score: 2

Tuishimi
Member since:
2005-07-06

Pressure from RIAA-like entities? Government? They want to maintain more control over how the phone is used regarding content and the like? I don't know.

I am still happy with my construction-site phone (nokia or samsung, I forget which). I can use it to call people, and I can drop it and step on it accidentally and it will still work. ;)

Reply Score: 2

Ok then it's a good phone
by Mr.Manatane on Sat 24th Jul 2010 14:42 UTC
Mr.Manatane
Member since:
2010-03-19

All the article, the author speak about the power user as they were 99% of the user, but the reality is that they are 0,05%.

Then all this bullshit doesn't matter, the phone seems to be good.

The most funny is this is to say that a phone is crap because you can't do what you want with it. But you know what ? It as always be like that since the beginning. You were not able to do what you want on any smartphone before, despite the 400 linux talibans that want to install their crap on the phone illegaly and spam every web site they could to tell that some phone are crap.

Good day.

Reply Score: 1

RE: Ok then it's a good phone
by Zifre on Sat 24th Jul 2010 17:50 UTC in reply to "Ok then it's a good phone"
Zifre Member since:
2009-10-04

All the article, the author speak about the power user as they were 99% of the user, but the reality is that they are 0,05%.

I don't think he ever said that. And I guess we can just ignore everything you say, because you are only 0.00000001% of the population.

The most funny is this is to say that a phone is crap because you can't do what you want with it.

Well, if the phone can't do what you want it to do, you're not going to buy it, are you? It just happens that what you want the phone to do might be different than what other people want to do, but you seem to think that they don't matter, only you do.

You were not able to do what you want on any smartphone before,

You could do it on the Droid, the Nexus One, the N900, and many other phones.

despite the 400 linux talibans that want to install their crap on the phone illegaly and spam every web site they could to tell that some phone are crap.

First of all, that's kind of offensive, it isn't illegal, and if you call it spam, then I'd call your post spam.

Good day.

It doesn't seem like you mean that...

Reply Score: 2

Get what you pay for
by Dubbayoo on Sat 24th Jul 2010 18:24 UTC
Dubbayoo
Member since:
2006-02-09

I have a Droid X. I like it. I might root it some day. I might not. I bought it for the advertised features, not the unadvertised ones. I'm all for OSS but IMO if you buy a device for the ability to do things the mfr didn't intend to be done you have little right to be disappointed when you can't do them. If you can then that's great. I don't see how anyone was duped here.

Reply Score: 1

SuperDaveOsbourne
Member since:
2007-06-24

Talk about a site that is dying. 4 days since last 'news' report. With the weekend abound, it could be almost a week between headline news here at OSOlds.

Reply Score: 1

molnarcs Member since:
2005-09-10

5 days now...

Reply Score: 2