Linked by Thom Holwerda on Thu 12th Aug 2010 13:57 UTC
PDAs, Cellphones, Wireless The fact that Android is doing well shouldn't be a surprise to anyone; lots of figures already prove that. New figures from research firms Gartner and IDC from the second quarter of 2010 show that not only is Android doing well in the United States - it's doing well in Foreign as well. Worldwide, Android has soared past iOS, and is closing in on Research In Motion's BlackBerry - just one percentage point left. Symbian is still the undisputed king of smartphone land, with more installations sold than RIM and Android combined.
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In other worlds
by fatjoe on Thu 12th Aug 2010 14:21 UTC
fatjoe
Member since:
2010-01-12

There are now more mobile Linux installation than desktop Linux installation.

Actually, when I think about it... there must be more Linux phones than OSX and Linux and BSD desktops combined...

Edited 2010-08-12 14:23 UTC

Reply Score: 4

RE: In other worlds
by kvarbanov on Thu 12th Aug 2010 14:32 UTC in reply to "In other worlds"
kvarbanov Member since:
2008-06-16

That's not something surprising, right ? My humble subjective observation of the mobile market in my own country, Bulgaria, is that Symbian is still leading - mostly due to the fact that older or uninformed users are still tied to the "Nokia is good" moto, so they will buy Nokia regardless of what's running under the hood. Yes, I know Samsung and SE also have Symbian based devices, but still Nokia is definitely leading over here. Andrioid, on the other hand, has made a great invasion with the so-popular-recently various HTC phones.

Reply Score: 2

RE[2]: In other worlds
by wirespot on Fri 13th Aug 2010 13:59 UTC in reply to "RE: In other worlds"
wirespot Member since:
2006-06-21

mostly due to the fact that older or uninformed users are still tied to the "Nokia is good" moto, so they will buy Nokia regardless of what's running under the hood.


In their defence, the "Nokia is good" notion is not completely unfounded. Nokia has managed to keep the interface of their phones simple and logical and once you learn to use one Nokia phone you can use most of their others. Lots of their batteries are interchangeable (example: there's the same battery in 1101, 6230 and 2730, which are very different generations and classes of phones). They have one charger type and only the connector differs (thick jack, thin jack, microUSB) but you can get adapters and basically use one charger for any Nokia phone. They have standardized on SD and microSD cards. Decent PC backup and connectivity tools. They're durable and come in a great variety for all price and feature ranges. Not to mention that they're everywhere: available in all retail shops and probably subsidized by carriers as well, am I right?

Recap: rich offer, good quality, reusable skill and chargers, widely available. I'm not surprised Nokia is held in high regard, at least as far as feature phones are concerned. Smartphones may be another matter, we'll see.

Reply Score: 1

RE: In other worlds
by shmerl on Thu 12th Aug 2010 16:23 UTC in reply to "In other worlds"
shmerl Member since:
2010-06-08

And when MeeGo will kick in - there will be even more.

Reply Score: 5

RE[2]: In other worlds
by vivainio on Thu 12th Aug 2010 16:26 UTC in reply to "RE: In other worlds"
vivainio Member since:
2008-12-26

And when MeeGo will kick in - there will be even more.


When MeeGo kicks in, there will be more REAL linux phones.

Kernel is all Android has from GNU/Linux. In practice android could effectively switch to another kernel (*BSD, or even a proprietary one like QNX) without skipping a beat.

Reply Score: 4

RE[3]: In other worlds
by tony on Thu 12th Aug 2010 17:53 UTC in reply to "RE[2]: In other worlds"
tony Member since:
2005-07-06

"And when MeeGo will kick in - there will be even more.


When MeeGo kicks in, there will be more REAL linux phones.

Kernel is all Android has from GNU/Linux. In practice android could effectively switch to another kernel (*BSD, or even a proprietary one like QNX) without skipping a beat.
"

I was about to ask how long it will take before people start to turn on Android, now that it's not longer the under, to support a new underdog. Same thing happened to Ubuntu/Fedora.

Reply Score: 2

RE[4]: In other worlds
by vivainio on Thu 12th Aug 2010 18:03 UTC in reply to "RE[3]: In other worlds"
vivainio Member since:
2008-12-26


I was about to ask how long it will take before people start to turn on Android, now that it's not longer the under, to support a new underdog. Same thing happened to Ubuntu/Fedora.


At talk.maemo.org, I quote Thomas Perl's funny observation in my signature:

"Android is John the Baptist; MeeGo is Jesus".

Android is a message of things to come, and it keeps the world from falling into complete darkness (iPhone). However, it is not (as a google-specific Java sandbox) the final way to the *true* Linux userland of milk and honey, which needs to be established by MeeGo.

(obviously I'm a Nokia shill, but don't let that distract you from the message).

Reply Score: 4

RE[5]: In other worlds
by tony on Thu 12th Aug 2010 19:03 UTC in reply to "RE[4]: In other worlds"
tony Member since:
2005-07-06

"
I was about to ask how long it will take before people start to turn on Android, now that it's not longer the under, to support a new underdog. Same thing happened to Ubuntu/Fedora.


At talk.maemo.org, I quote Thomas Perl's funny observation in my signature:

"Android is John the Baptist; MeeGo is Jesus".

Android is a message of things to come, and it keeps the world from falling into complete darkness (iPhone). However, it is not (as a google-specific Java sandbox) the final way to the *true* Linux userland of milk and honey, which needs to be established by MeeGo.

(obviously I'm a Nokia shill, but don't let that distract you from the message).
"

I have to give you points for admitting to religious fervor.

However, why do I care of it's *ze pure* Linux userland versus what Android has?

This is turning into some indierock Pete stuff: http://www.dieselsweeties.com/archive/2140

Reply Score: 2

RE[6]: In other worlds
by vivainio on Thu 12th Aug 2010 19:14 UTC in reply to "RE[5]: In other worlds"
vivainio Member since:
2008-12-26


However, why do I care of it's *ze pure* Linux userland versus what Android has?


You probably don't care, but people who are interested in future success of Linux on the desktop do (well, at least those with understanding of the internals). Android doesn't benefit Linux (the technology stack) anymore than a router running Linux does. It's nice to say you have a Linux phone, but with Android your words are shallow.

Reply Score: 3

RE[7]: In other worlds
by reconciliation on Thu 12th Aug 2010 19:25 UTC in reply to "RE[6]: In other worlds"
reconciliation Member since:
2009-07-02

actually linux IS the kernel, that is ALL it is.
so if you say gnome or kde are linux, look at what freebsd runs, it is not in the least the same.
so android is a linux phone and meego or whatever is a linux phone that simply uses different applications than android that happen to be related to the ones you have available on your common distribution.

of course I would love to see some kde mobile stuff that got some love

Reply Score: 2

RE[7]: In other worlds
by HappyGod on Fri 13th Aug 2010 05:02 UTC in reply to "RE[6]: In other worlds"
HappyGod Member since:
2005-10-19

Hang on, I thought the iPhone was the "Jesus Phone"?

I caved to the dark side and bought an iPhone 4. It felt wrong, but I'm not sorry. They made me stare at this spinning wheel for a while which was weird.

I now realise that Apple was right. I love the leader.

Reply Score: 2

RE[5]: In other worlds
by Bill Shooter of Bul on Thu 12th Aug 2010 22:06 UTC in reply to "RE[4]: In other worlds"
Bill Shooter of Bul Member since:
2006-07-14


"Android is John the Baptist; MeeGo is Jesus".


I really wish that were true. There are many reasons why I would prefer Meego. However, there are not many carriers in the US that have a very good relationship with Nokia. So out of contract seems to be the only way right now to get a Nokia phone ( like the 900). You aren't going to see mass adoption in the US until that changes.

Reply Score: 2

RE[5]: In other worlds
by bitwelder on Fri 13th Aug 2010 09:02 UTC in reply to "RE[4]: In other worlds"
bitwelder Member since:
2010-04-27

At talk.maemo.org, I quote Thomas Perl's funny observation in my signature:

"Android is John the Baptist; MeeGo is Jesus".

A funny quote, but it worries me to think that The Register calls "that" other phone 'Judas Phone'.

Reply Score: 1

Mobile applications
by spiderman on Thu 12th Aug 2010 14:40 UTC
spiderman
Member since:
2008-10-23

Write portable code and don't worry too much about bogus data. Market share goes up and down anyway.

Reply Score: 3

RE: Mobile applications
by MORB on Thu 12th Aug 2010 14:56 UTC in reply to "Mobile applications"
MORB Member since:
2005-07-06

It's not possible to write portable mobile applications. Mobile platforms use different programming languages and provide different frameworks (java for android, C++ for iOS and C++/Qt for symbian).

Additionally, I don't think apple would accept the utilization of an additional framework on top of iOS to achieve platform independance anyway.

Reply Score: 2

RE[2]: Mobile applications
by Lennie on Thu 12th Aug 2010 15:51 UTC in reply to "RE: Mobile applications"
Lennie Member since:
2007-09-22

Then you are doing it wrong, they all support HTML, CSS, JS. 'HTML5' allows for sharing most of the code.

It's even possible to have a really short approval time and it just needs to be approved ones if you don't change anything else of the application.

Here some links:
http://www.quirksmode.org/blog/archives/2010/03/html5_apps.html
http://www.quirksmode.org/blog/archives/2010/03/the_payment_arg.htm...

Edited 2010-08-12 16:02 UTC

Reply Score: 3

RE[3]: Mobile applications
by nt_jerkface on Thu 12th Aug 2010 18:58 UTC in reply to "RE[2]: Mobile applications"
nt_jerkface Member since:
2009-08-26

Those links provide poor arguments.

From 'the payment argument is nonsense':


The counter-argument is that the HTML5 app route doesn’t allow developers to get paid. That’s true — for now. (I expect the mobile operators to start offering a payment system in the next two to three years.)


So it's a non-sense argument except for the part about getting paid.

There is also no code protection for HTML5 apps. It's open source javascript.

Oh and I like how the author hasn't written any of these HTML5 mobile apps and yet wants everyone to switch to them.

Reply Score: 2

RE[4]: Mobile applications
by vivainio on Thu 12th Aug 2010 19:17 UTC in reply to "RE[3]: Mobile applications"
vivainio Member since:
2008-12-26


There is also no code protection for HTML5 apps. It's open source javascript.


You can obfuscate javascript. Also, you can make a for-pay backend to your client web app.

Also (as you well know) seeing the source doesn't make it open source. You can't distribute a derived work of a javascript program if the license forbids it.

Reply Score: 2

RE[5]: Mobile applications
by nt_jerkface on Thu 12th Aug 2010 20:21 UTC in reply to "RE[4]: Mobile applications"
nt_jerkface Member since:
2009-08-26


You can obfuscate javascript. Also, you can make a for-pay backend to your client web app.


Not nearly as well as code that compiles. There is even a Javascript Deobfuscator plugin:
https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/10345/


Also (as you well know) seeing the source doesn't make it open source. You can't distribute a derived work of a javascript program if the license forbids it.


The concern wouldn't be with people who are looking to redistribute the code. It would be with competitors who want to see how you built your app. In most cases simply showing the open code cuts out at least half of the development time. It's akin to the time involved with coming up with words for a story, which is much greater than the time involved than the physical process of writing them.

Creating a mobile HTML5 app is a huge jump from creating an HTML5 compatible website. The author doesn't understand how much additional work is involved with not having an API, SDK or payment gateway. Then you also have security issues, hosting, user accounts, and a myriad of other problems that HTML5 does not solve. You also lose the benefit of being able to run the app locally.

Oh and let's not forget the final joy of HTML5 which is that you get to choose between Javascript and Javascript.

It's certainly doable for free Flash type games that people make for fun but to suggest it as a viable alternative to iphone or android development is unrealistic.

Reply Score: 2

RE[2]: Mobile applications
by spiderman on Thu 12th Aug 2010 17:22 UTC in reply to "RE: Mobile applications"
spiderman Member since:
2008-10-23

Actually only Android and iOS restrict the language you can use. You are not forced to use QT on Symbian. Anyway, you can always separate the logic of your program from the toolkit. Several software vendors do that.

Reply Score: 2

They can all grow.
by theTSF on Thu 12th Aug 2010 14:54 UTC
theTSF
Member since:
2005-09-27

I really hate this iPhone (1 or 2 active product lines) vs. Android (Many many different product lines across many Cell manufactures) vs. others.

In really they all fill different market segments, and are to attract different people. I think the iPhone is hurting RIM more then competing against Android. As the iPhone is just a more subjectivly "classy" phone and really good for business use, which was RIM's main business.

Android is taking the more is better approach and is competing against and taking over the non-smart phone market, hence it big rise.

The iPhone made smart phones cool. Android brought them to the masses.

Oddly enough they are not really in that much competition with each other. There are some people who will need to choose between an android vs. and iPhone. But for most it is an easy decision.

Reply Score: 2

RE: They can all grow.
by vivainio on Thu 12th Aug 2010 16:23 UTC in reply to "They can all grow."
vivainio Member since:
2008-12-26

As the iPhone is just a more subjectivly "classy" phone and really good for business use, which was RIM's main business.


I beg to differ. iPhone is a toy with lots of games and no keyboard. Business users need qwerty.

Reply Score: 3

RE[2]: They can all grow.
by nt_jerkface on Thu 12th Aug 2010 19:01 UTC in reply to "RE: They can all grow."
nt_jerkface Member since:
2009-08-26

Do you really feel the need to do p.r. work for Android when it is doing well? The iphone has a touch keyboard, maybe you should try one sometime.

Anyways
4 out of 10 of our iPhone sales to enterprises
http://www.zdnet.com/blog/btl/at-t-exec-4-out-of-10-of-our-iphone-s...

Edited 2010-08-12 19:02 UTC

Reply Score: 2

RE[3]: They can all grow.
by vivainio on Thu 12th Aug 2010 19:08 UTC in reply to "RE[2]: They can all grow."
vivainio Member since:
2008-12-26

The iphone has a touch keyboard, maybe you should try one sometime.


I don't see touch keyboards cutting the mustard for serious, extended typing (that people in business of actually getting work done have to do on occasion).

Anyways 4 out of 10 of our iPhone sales to enterprises


That's because companies pay for the phones, and allow users to choose a phone for themselves; people choose them for freetime use instead of considering their work productivity.

I think that's a stupid thing for a company to do. They should specify a phone among the alternatives that have been deemed good for business use (email, web, document viewing, text authoring on the go, connectivity).

Reply Score: 3

RE[4]: They can all grow.
by nt_jerkface on Thu 12th Aug 2010 19:47 UTC in reply to "RE[3]: They can all grow."
nt_jerkface Member since:
2009-08-26


I don't see touch keyboards cutting the mustard for serious, extended typing (that people in business of actually getting work done have to do on occasion).


Well maybe you should spend some time with one. I tried half a dozen slide out keyboards and didn't type any faster on them.

But more importantly smartphones are not designed for extended typing, that's the job of laptops.


That's because companies pay for the phones, and allow users to choose a phone for themselves; people choose them for freetime use instead of considering their work productivity.


Go to any hospital and you'll see that half the doctors have iphones. But you would probably assume that they have them for doodle jump and not epocrates.

The iphone is heavily used by a variety of business users, sorry if this conflicts with your belief of it being a toy. It does have a great game selection which adds to the appeal. Android games would be better if Google defined hardware classes instead of the current situation where developers have to target the lowest common denominator.

Reply Score: 3

RE[5]: They can all grow.
by vivainio on Thu 12th Aug 2010 20:17 UTC in reply to "RE[4]: They can all grow."
vivainio Member since:
2008-12-26


Go to any hospital and you'll see that half the doctors have iphones.


Luckily not in Finland. Hospitals are funded by taxes here; at the moment hospital uses taxpayer euros to buy iPhones, it's time to kick out the hospital administration.

Reply Score: 3

RE[2]: They can all grow.
by mrhasbean on Thu 12th Aug 2010 23:41 UTC in reply to "RE: They can all grow."
mrhasbean Member since:
2006-04-03

I beg to differ. iPhone is a toy with lots of games and no keyboard. Business users need qwerty.


Subjective and total crap to boot. What users prefer is what they need. Personally I wouldn't touch one of those so-called "real" keyboards with a barge pole, not that I would be able to with the size of the "keys" anyway, and I guarantee I use my iPhone for just as many "business" applications as anyone, and a shitload of "techy" applications to boot. Please don't try to make out a particular market segment "needs" what is your preference. People will make their own decisions, just as they do with the devices and OSes.

Reply Score: 2

RE[3]: They can all grow.
by _txf_ on Fri 13th Aug 2010 12:00 UTC in reply to "RE[2]: They can all grow."
_txf_ Member since:
2008-03-17

Generally using the majority of physical keyboards on phones you can get a higher wpm than using any touch keyboard, this is doubly true if you have to mix symbols and numbers. There are some keyboards that are really bad, but that is not the tendency.

Now of course you give up either screen real estate of increase the bulk of the phone by adding qwerty. Personally I would use physical over screen any day and I have very "sausagy" fingers. I have yet to try swipe but any standard soft keyboard tends to get frustrating.

Reply Score: 3

RE: They can all grow.
by Fergy on Thu 12th Aug 2010 20:19 UTC in reply to "They can all grow."
Fergy Member since:
2006-04-10

Android is taking the more is better approach and is competing against and taking over the non-smart phone market, hence it big rise.

You really want to claim that the new Android phones are anything less than Iphone 4?

Reply Score: 2

Real fact is that MS becomes irrelevant
by Envying1 on Thu 12th Aug 2010 15:41 UTC
Envying1
Member since:
2008-04-22

Android, RIM, Nokia, and Apple will have their market shares, Wphone7 will become another Zune as they are sharing same OS...

Reply Score: 3

nt_jerkface Member since:
2009-08-26

Nah, WP7 phones will be popular with business users who just want to sync outlook or connect to an exchange server.

The problem with Zune HD is that it doesn't have the app store and as such can't compete with the ipod touch. WP7 will appeal to a much wider demographic.

One downside to Android is that it doesn't have offline movies. WP7 will have Xbox live connectivity and their media is pretty good.

People exchange their phones every few years so this will be an ongoing competition.

Reply Score: 2

vivainio Member since:
2008-12-26

Nah, WP7 phones will be popular with business users who just want to sync outlook or connect to an exchange server.


Even my N900 does this...

Activesync (the out-of-firewall used by exchange) is not rocket science, it's wbxml over https. Yes, Microsoft managed to make an unobfuscated protocol ;-).

I think WP7 will attract a following by its aesthetics which are a big contrast against iPhone and Android.

Reply Score: 2

nt_jerkface Member since:
2009-08-26

It's not just an issue of comparable functionality, it's also the expectation that an MS phone will sync nicely with MS software.

Like it or not it is a safe assumption that many business users will have.

But even beyond that point there will be Office integration that Android won't be able to provide.

Reply Score: 2

vivainio Member since:
2008-12-26


But even beyond that point there will be Office integration that Android won't be able to provide.


Yeah, and we can expect MS to beef up their office suite to integrate more tightly with the phones for maximum lock-in.

They are playing the long game with WP7. I'm amazed how shortsighted the gadget press is about seeing launch of WP7 as a "make or break" moment.

Reply Score: 2

organgtool Member since:
2010-02-25

Could someone please explain to me what "offline movies" are? I keep hearing about them, but no one seems to be able to explain what they are. I tried to Google the term but the only references are in online forums where no one explains what this means, just that Android doesn't have it.

Reply Score: 2

Yesterday's news...
by timdp on Thu 12th Aug 2010 15:53 UTC
timdp
Member since:
2009-06-19

... but still a nice read. Thom's English has had better days though.

Reply Score: 0

RE: Yesterday's news...
by Thom_Holwerda on Thu 12th Aug 2010 15:59 UTC in reply to "Yesterday's news..."
Thom_Holwerda Member since:
2005-06-29

It's August 12 today. That's the date of their press releases. It's not yesterday's news.

And as for my English - well. Gelukkig is dat niet de enige taal waarin ik mij verstaanbaar kan maken ;) .

Edited 2010-08-12 15:59 UTC

Reply Score: 1

RE[2]: Yesterday's news...
by Lennie on Thu 12th Aug 2010 16:10 UTC in reply to "RE: Yesterday's news..."
Lennie Member since:
2007-09-22

For those left wondering:

"Luckily that isn't the only language which I can use to make myself heard"

And no english is not my native language either. :-)

Reply Score: 2

RE[3]: Yesterday's news...
by vivainio on Thu 12th Aug 2010 16:15 UTC in reply to "RE[2]: Yesterday's news..."
vivainio Member since:
2008-12-26

誠然谷歌翻譯把大部分的樂趣語言惡作劇

Reply Score: 2

RE[4]: Yesterday's news...
by Feanor on Thu 12th Aug 2010 17:25 UTC in reply to "RE[3]: Yesterday's news..."
Feanor Member since:
2006-12-21

صحيح أن اللغة مترجم جوجل أكثر من المرح مزحة

Reply Score: 2

RE[5]: Yesterday's news...
by vivainio on Thu 12th Aug 2010 17:30 UTC in reply to "RE[4]: Yesterday's news..."
vivainio Member since:
2008-12-26

कहने के लिए OSNews यूनिकोड साथ तारकीय काम करता है कम से कम.

Reply Score: 2

RE[2]: Yesterday's news...
by timdp on Fri 13th Aug 2010 00:59 UTC in reply to "RE: Yesterday's news..."
timdp Member since:
2009-06-19

I apologize. I thought this was yet another regurgitation of a different Android sales figure, combined with some of Gartner's projections that have been out there for a while as well. Reading OSNews at work is a great way to skim articles and jump to conclusions, after all.

As for the English: persoonlijk praat ik ook Frans, Duits en aardig wat Latijn. Laten we het daar vooral verder over hebben. ;)

Reply Score: 1

Android in SK
by orfanum on Mon 16th Aug 2010 13:09 UTC
orfanum
Member since:
2006-06-02

Being in South Korea now, I can confirm that Android is being *heavily* advertised here; different handsets are being branded as Android ones, and not primarily with the manufacturer's marque; from what I have seen on the subway and out on the street, the iPhone on the other hand has not made massive inroads.

Despite the foregrounding of Android as a marketing ploy, the power of the likes of Samsung to push the operating system flavour of the month cannot be underestimated; friends say that they have been practically duped, for example, by Samsung's marketing wizards, hitherto to purchase Windows-powered phones. If Samsung gets significantly behind Android, it will be a powerful combination in Google's favour in more ways than one, since it may also get Google into the search space more in this Internet-friendly but Web idiosyncratic country.

Apple, for all it's global cool, also doesn't really have a local face anywhere; this is the way in which Google will trump Apple in the end, and being 'open' to inflection will pay dividends.

Reply Score: 2

RE: Android in SK
by ari-free on Mon 16th Aug 2010 22:41 UTC in reply to "Android in SK"
ari-free Member since:
2007-01-22

People will want all those localized features they were used to from their featurephones, including paying things with your phone. Only a customizable OS will deliver that.

Reply Score: 2

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famalegoods103
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Reply Score: 1