Linked by Thom Holwerda on Tue 24th Aug 2010 14:36 UTC
PDAs, Cellphones, Wireless Upgrading all those countless Android devices to version 2.2, or Froyo, hasn't exactly been an easy task for many device makers and carriers. Between flat-out denying devices from Froyoness and already having Froyo updates sent out, Motorola has pretty much lost it. Where companies are incompetent, the geeks that roam the 'net seek to provide solace. What do you do, then, as a company? Why, you threaten your loyal customers with legal action, of course.
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Title is very confusing
by Envying1 on Tue 24th Aug 2010 14:52 UTC
Envying1
Member since:
2008-04-22

'against' would be a better choice than 'on'

Reply Score: 2

...or go Geeksphone!
by warpcafe on Tue 24th Aug 2010 14:56 UTC
warpcafe
Member since:
2009-09-09

Hi, let me rise to the occasion and make the link to the geeksphone here: They even started an initiative to "officially" approve community-created ROMs. ;)
FYI http://www.geeksphone.com/en
Cheers

Reply Score: 1

Should have supported Google's Nexus One
by cmost on Tue 24th Aug 2010 15:09 UTC
cmost
Member since:
2006-07-16

I wonder how many disgruntled Motorola customers are wishing they supported Google and purchased the Nexus One. I purchased a Nexus One and received my 'Froyo' 2.2 upgrade the week it came out. My upgrade was smooth and trouble-free. Too bad all these telecoms think they know what's best for users by using custom Android mods that add unneeded / unwanted features or in some cases, strip features. Phone makers should have followed Google's lead and released "vanilla" Android on their phones. Then, upgrading would be easier and Android would be standardized. Now, Android users are finding themselves in a jumbled mess of varying OS versions, long waits for upgrades (if they happen at all) and missing features. Even the hacking community is under attack for picking up after the phone makers' mess and releasing functional upgrades in a timely manner.

Reply Score: 9

SlackerJack Member since:
2005-11-12

Yes indeed. It's really annoying to see companies fighting like this because they 'think' they know better. It's more about what they want, rather than what the customer wants.

Reply Score: 2

JrezIN Member since:
2005-06-29

There's a problem with your "support google"... first google needs to support us and release the damn phone in the rest of the world, as others "google experience" phones...

...and do I need to talk about google Checkout? the lack of comercial market without checkout? I hope I don't need...


...the thing is, google is lefting a lot of users behind, in the hands of companies like motorola as their only Android choice... easy to see how companies like motorola 'do as they please'...

Reply Score: 2

nicolasgoddone Member since:
2009-04-20

very well said, +1 for nailing the culprits

Reply Score: 1

I guess I'm confused
by HunterA3 on Tue 24th Aug 2010 16:27 UTC
HunterA3
Member since:
2005-10-19

Android is an open source OS. The only thing that Motorola could sue for is the hardware hooks that allow the OS to talk to the hardware and to my knowledge that's not what hackers are making available. They are making available a custom version of an open source OS that works on said phone. Am I wrong?

Reply Score: 1

RE: I guess I'm confused - DMCA
by jabbotts on Tue 24th Aug 2010 16:38 UTC in reply to "I guess I'm confused"
jabbotts Member since:
2007-09-06

The horridly written and consumer hostile DMCA may rear it's ugly head. If the DroidX has the logic-bomb reported to be implemented by Motorola, there may be some DRM circumvention in successfully flashing a new firmware on the device. It's said to detect tampering and chew the boot loader (classic logic-bomb). If you don't break DMCA protected DRM then your phone is bricked. If you do break DMCA protected DRM then there is grounds for litigation and potentially federal charges.

Someone more familiar with the device and US law would have to confirm or correct me here though.

Reply Score: 4

RE: I guess I'm confused
by vivainio on Tue 24th Aug 2010 18:11 UTC in reply to "I guess I'm confused"
vivainio Member since:
2008-12-26

Android is an open source OS. The only thing that Motorola could sue for is the hardware hooks that allow the OS to talk to the hardware and to my knowledge that's not what hackers are making available. They are making available a custom version of an open source OS that works on said phone. Am I wrong?


You are wrong. If you aggregate one byte of copyrighted software (hardware "hooks" or whatever) with 1 gig of open source software, the copyright holder can order you to stop.

Motorola customers should just stop whining and deal with it; they could have bought nexus one, but didn't.

Reply Score: 2

RE[2]: I guess I'm confused - off topic
by jabbotts on Tue 24th Aug 2010 19:38 UTC in reply to "RE: I guess I'm confused"
jabbotts Member since:
2007-09-06

Hey, been watching to cross paths. I hope your employer is working on an N910 or upgrade of some form on the N900 hardware. As I've said elsewhere since getting hands on mine; how did Nokia not eat the market alive with this device and OS? It blows Android and Iphone out of the water.

Reply Score: 2

vivainio Member since:
2008-12-26

I hope your employer is working on an N910 or upgrade of some form on the N900 hardware.


Most definitely there is action upcoming in the MeeGo area; first MeeGo device has been promised still this year.

N900 will also receive upgrade to (unofficial, but Nokia-built) upgrade to MeeGo.

As I've said elsewhere since getting hands on mine; how did Nokia not eat the market alive with this device and OS? It blows Android and Iphone out of the water.


N900 is quite a geeky device compared to iPhone / Android, so the target market is quite a bit smaller. Upcoming devices will be less geeky :-).

Reply Score: 2

jabbotts Member since:
2007-09-06

I figured on more N series devices but hopefully they keep at least one line as geeky as the N900. At present, I'm waiting for the honeymoon glow to wear off before I look at dualbooting. I expect a partition on the SD for Meego though. Desktop OS like Debian and such are more of a "see what I can do".. though, 16 gigs gives me room to also cut an Android third bootable.

Reply Score: 2

Morgan Member since:
2005-06-29

N900 is quite a geeky device compared to iPhone / Android, so the target market is quite a bit smaller. Upcoming devices will be less geeky :-).


That's a shame; I'm still torn between an Android and a Nokia N900 when the time comes, but I'm leaning heavily towards the Nokia. I have a feeling that retail availability of the N900 will drop sharply once the new one comes out. As it stands, I can't order one direct from Nokia's online store; they have a link from the N900 feature page that instead goes to the new N8's order page.

Hopefully newegg.com won't sell out any time soon, and once I've scraped together the funds I'll get my order in on time.

Reply Score: 2

vivainio Member since:
2008-12-26

I have a feeling that retail availability of the N900 will drop sharply once the new one comes out. As it stands, I can't order one direct from Nokia's online store; they have a link from the N900 feature page that instead goes to the new N8's order page.


It should be possible to make a good deal on a second hand device when everyone is buying the upcoming n-series $HARMATTAN_DEVICE. It's good idea to wait anyway, and see whether you want N900 or $HARMATTAN_DEVICE in the end.

The buy & sell area in TMO is probably worth following:

http://talk.maemo.org/forumdisplay.php?f=27

Reply Score: 2

Morgan Member since:
2005-06-29

Thanks for the info!!

Reply Score: 2

jabbotts Member since:
2007-09-06

Nokia's US site has reduced the price already so you should be good soon. Check Maemo.org downloads for a healthy sample of available apps. I've found some unlisted but in the stable repository. There are two development repositories if your more adventurous.

My findings are that it has a shorter title list than Android or Iphone repositories but less duplication and more apps of value. You also have the Ovi market which is currently the lowest cost of entry for developers and already has some nice applets available.

Reply Score: 2

Morgan Member since:
2005-06-29

Well, I'm not what you would call an "app person". I think if the phone comes with great basic pim and internet apps, all I really need beyond that can be had easily on a device like the N900, whether prepackaged or cross-compiled by me.

There are a multitude of reasons I don't have an iPhone, but mainly because I don't need 99% of what it's good at. Besides, I have an iPod touch for those few times I feel the need for a specific iOS-only app, and it is mostly an e-reader for me anyway.

From what I've seen of the N900, it's as close as you can get to a true pocketable computer, with a 24/7 internet connection that rivals what I have at home. No jailbreaking or rooting necessary, and closer to true Linux than the Android line.

Reply Score: 2

ebasconp Member since:
2006-05-09

N900 is quite a geeky device compared to iPhone / Android, so the target market is quite a bit smaller. Upcoming devices will be less geeky :-).


So do you mean the new $HARMATTAN_DEVICE will not let me install a gcc compiler, install unix apps or emulators or connect to my PC using ssh and all that stuff?

Reply Score: 2

vivainio Member since:
2008-12-26

So do you mean the new $HARMATTAN_DEVICE will not let me install a gcc compiler, install unix apps or emulators or connect to my PC using ssh and all that stuff?

No, I mean it will be better than N900 for non-geeks (this doesn't mean it would be worse geeks). Obviously I can't talk about unannounced products, but I can refer to Ari Jaaksi's comments about N900 being step 4 out of 5, and Harmattan (=> "MeeGo") being step 5 out of 5 with mainstream appeal.

Reply Score: 2

polaris20 Member since:
2005-07-06

Hey, been watching to cross paths. I hope your employer is working on an N910 or upgrade of some form on the N900 hardware. As I've said elsewhere since getting hands on mine; how did Nokia not eat the market alive with this device and OS? It blows Android and Iphone out of the water.


Perhaps because it doesn't blow Android and iOS out of the water? It's sluggish, and the hardware is horrible in comparison to the iPhone and the vast majority of Android handsets. It's easy to see why no one bought it.

Reply Score: 2

RE[2]: I guess I'm confused
by izomiac on Tue 24th Aug 2010 21:33 UTC in reply to "RE: I guess I'm confused"
izomiac Member since:
2006-07-26

I take it you don't visit many places in America? Personally, I'd love to have gotten a Nexus One, but practicality trumps politics and I needed a phone that can place calls in my CDMA dominated state.

I'd be glad to see every manufacturer and carrier relax their restrictions, but that won't happen if people aren't vocal about them. OTOH, it's Motorola that's "whining", Droid X users are "deal[ing] with it" by installing a rooted version of Froyo.

Reply Score: 1

RE: I guess I'm confused
by WorknMan on Tue 24th Aug 2010 20:25 UTC in reply to "I guess I'm confused"
WorknMan Member since:
2005-11-13

Android is an open source OS. The only thing that Motorola could sue for is the hardware hooks that allow the OS to talk to the hardware and to my knowledge that's not what hackers are making available. They are making available a custom version of an open source OS that works on said phone. Am I wrong?


On the page linked to from this article, it says:

(1). I the duly authorized representative of the exclusive rights holder Motorola for Droid X Keyboard Software, know as “repackaged-signed.apk


So it looks like it's just a particular piece of software that they're complaining about?

Reply Score: 2

Time's like this...
by jabbotts on Tue 24th Aug 2010 16:33 UTC
jabbotts
Member since:
2007-09-06

Makes me pretty happy that my last Motorola was the Razr. They want to be "hip" by giving lip service to user freedom while saving development costs by using Android.. but woe be yee that dare exercise that freedom by upgrading the device firmware and staying current with Android released through any other means than replacing your perfectly functioning hardware with a new Motorola device purchase.

Motorola can run there business into the ground for all I care. The sad part is that this will be another nail in the coffin of what Android could have been if Google kept it cohesive and closer to it's Linux distribution roots instead of allowing the hardware vendors to fragment the hell out of it.

Reply Score: 2

Bring Nexus One back !
by igalmarino on Tue 24th Aug 2010 16:36 UTC
igalmarino
Member since:
2006-08-29

We want the return of the Nexus One !

Reply Score: 1

jabbotts Member since:
2007-09-06

It's not sold through third parties and primarily as a developer platform rather than consumer phone. HTC is actually back ordered at the moment because the demand when it was released outside of Google's website overwhelmed the stockpiles and manufacturing rate.

Reply Score: 2

igalmarino Member since:
2006-08-29

I need the UMTS 850 Nexus One and its not sell any more ;)

Edited 2010-08-24 17:32 UTC

Reply Score: 1

jabbotts Member since:
2007-09-06

boo!.. hadn't realized they'd changed the hardware version. That does suck. Why is that specific model required?

Reply Score: 2

bhtooefr Member since:
2009-02-19

AT&T.

(Or, if he's in Canada, Rogers, IIRC.)

If you don't get T-Mobile service in your area, and you get the UMTS 1700/2100 version of the Nexus One, you don't get 3G at all.

Reply Score: 1

jabbotts Member since:
2007-09-06

different cell radio.. that would do it. I got lucky with my latest gadget purchase and found a link to the mobile provider's frequency bands from a retailer's site. I hadn't considerd that Nexus One wouldn't have originally produced with chips to work across cell technologies.

Reply Score: 2

bhtooefr Member since:
2009-02-19

The problem is that 850/1900 and 1700/2100 on the same chip is rather uncommon (although it does exist.)

And, a phone for Europe tends to be better off having 1700/2100 and the European frequencies, rather than 850/1900 and some of the European frequencies, so to reduce costs, they make one model that works everywhere... but only on T-Mobile in the US.

And to get a truly good network that works everywhere in the US (T-Mobile is as useful as tits on a boar in rural areas, AT&T is as useful as tits on a boar in large cities (due to being over capacity) and is 2G only in many rural areas,) you have to go to CDMA, which basically means getting a Droid Incredible on Verizon.

Reply Score: 1

jabbotts Member since:
2007-09-06

2G Network GSM 850 / 900 / 1800 / 1900
3G Network HSDPA 900 / 1700 / 2100

Wahoo.. Nokia. I can see that being a problem if not available.

Reply Score: 2

igalmarino Member since:
2006-08-29

850 is the frequency used for 3G in Costa Rica

Reply Score: 1

Running Froyo downloaded from google.
by joshv on Tue 24th Aug 2010 17:50 UTC
joshv
Member since:
2006-03-18

I am running Froyo on my Droid. The ROM was downloaded directly from Google's servers, so I doubt very much these are hacked builds - they are just copies of the ROM that was accidentally leaked by Google.

Reply Score: 2

coreyography Member since:
2009-03-06

This isn't the first time that has happened, either. There have been several instanced of Froyo pre-release builds for different phones appearing on some Google development site, only to be taken down a day or two later once they are "discovered" by the general public. Odd...

That said, Motorola can bite me. I wax nostalgic about my old analog Flip, but I won't buy another one if they keep treating customers this way. I would have bought a Nexus One had they made them in CDMA, and I did end up buying a HTC Incredible. It's the best mobile communications/information device I've ever owned. I'd probably have a Meego device if those came in CDMA.

Reply Score: 1

joshv Member since:
2006-03-18

How exactly are they treating customers poorly? My pre-release build has crashed the phone once, and has severe issues with Adobe Flash. Should they release this stuff before it's ready? And what the hell is wrong with 2.1? It's an awesome OS and it works great on the Droid.

I am more than a little sick and tired of people whining that their carrier isn't rushing out to upgrade to the latest and greatest mobile OS. You bought a phone, with a particular instance of the OS. Either you liked it then or your didn't. If you didn't like it - why did you buy it? If there were must have features in the new OS, well then freakin wait for devices that have that OS.

Reply Score: 3

izomiac Member since:
2006-07-26

And I'll bet you bought a computer with a perfectly good version of Windows, right? Who'd ever think of upgrading or changing the OS? Just buy a new computer if you want improved software.

Reply Score: 1

joshv Member since:
2006-03-18

For most people - yes. Very few people ever upgrade their OS - they just get it with a new computer.

Reply Score: 2

Just feels wrong
by werterr on Tue 24th Aug 2010 17:57 UTC
werterr
Member since:
2006-10-03

To me this all feels very wrong.

If I buy a phone... the device is mine right ? well apparently not with Motorola devices.

In my eyes the only reasonable thing for a company to do is to say that you have limited warranty after customizing the rom.

It truly amazes me that nowadays it seems that after buying things they try to prohibited you to do with it as you please.

Reply Score: 1

RE: Just feels wrong
by vivainio on Tue 24th Aug 2010 18:13 UTC in reply to "Just feels wrong"
vivainio Member since:
2008-12-26


If I buy a phone... the device is mine right ? well apparently not with Motorola devices.


If you read the artice, you'll see that Motorola is not suing you for your phone usage patterns. They are issuing C&D for a website that illegally distributes their copyrighted software.

Reply Score: 3

RE[2]: Just feels wrong
by de_wizze on Tue 24th Aug 2010 19:38 UTC in reply to "RE: Just feels wrong"
de_wizze Member since:
2005-10-31

Can't they just remove the Copyrighted portion or have the user use their legally acquired backup of said content?

Reply Score: 2

RE[3]: Just feels wrong
by vivainio on Tue 24th Aug 2010 20:10 UTC in reply to "RE[2]: Just feels wrong"
vivainio Member since:
2008-12-26

Can't they just remove the Copyrighted portion or have the user use their legally acquired backup of said content?

Probably, but I suppose Motorola won't help them do it.

Reply Score: 2

Motorola
by Lorin on Tue 24th Aug 2010 23:41 UTC
Lorin
Member since:
2010-04-06

What Motorola wants is for the most part meaningless, you own the phone and Android is open, Motorola does not have any control over what you do with your property.

Reply Score: 1

GPL..
by _xmv on Wed 25th Aug 2010 01:19 UTC
_xmv
Member since:
2008-12-09

What's funny is suing for motorola's IP.. which is probably a couple of PNG's and some motorola string in the boot loader like "this is copyrighted, required moto code" or w/e, while 99% of the system is either GPL either another open source compatible license aka free IP
Not a very nice move

Reply Score: 1

Isn't this legal now?
by marine6680 on Wed 25th Aug 2010 07:16 UTC
marine6680
Member since:
2010-04-15

Didn't they just put in a fair use exemption for jailbreaking/hacking a device you own?

Reply Score: 1

Froyo here
by Drunkula on Wed 25th Aug 2010 13:26 UTC
Drunkula
Member since:
2009-09-03

I, too, have Froyo on my original Droid. No worries here!

Reply Score: 1

shot in the foot
by bolomkxxviii on Wed 25th Aug 2010 17:59 UTC
bolomkxxviii
Member since:
2006-05-19

I really don't understand Motorola. Their phone division nearly went out of business. The original Droid was it's savior. Since then Moto has performed one bone headed manuver after another. The Backflip would have been a decent phone if they hadn't neutered the software. Insisting on adding Motoblur when a large percentage of customers want plain Android was another bone headed decision. Adding a e-fuse to the hardward of the Droid 2 yet another bad decision. Now they are going after the hosts of custom ROMs? Someone at Moto wants the phone division killed. It is the only thing that explains what they are doing.

Reply Score: 2