Linked by Thom Holwerda on Sun 29th Aug 2010 20:29 UTC
Java Well, this is about as surprising as Fiona Apple being awesome in every possible way. Google has announced that it has withdrawn itself from JavaOne, an annual conference on, well, Java. The cited reason? Oracle suing Google over Android's use of Java, of course.
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Out of line
by vivainio on Sun 29th Aug 2010 20:56 UTC
vivainio
Member since:
2008-12-26

Google may be overreacting a bit here.

They should have started a marketing campaign with the slogan "We heart Oracle" and kindly ask them to withdraw the lawsuit instead.

Reply Score: 3

RE: Out of line
by umccullough on Sun 29th Aug 2010 22:26 UTC in reply to "Out of line"
umccullough Member since:
2006-01-26

They should have started a marketing campaign with the slogan "We heart Oracle" and kindly ask them to withdraw the lawsuit instead.


Yeah, cuz that works...

Reply Score: 7

RE[2]: Out of line
by vivainio on Mon 30th Aug 2010 04:37 UTC in reply to "RE: Out of line"
vivainio Member since:
2008-12-26

"They should have started a marketing campaign with the slogan "We heart Oracle" and kindly ask them to withdraw the lawsuit instead.


Yeah, cuz that works...
"

Seems to be doing miracles for Adobe.

(greets for the sarcasm-savvy moderators!)

Reply Score: 2

v "because Oracle is being a di" .. what?
by Shannara on Sun 29th Aug 2010 21:03 UTC
I doubt it's a legal reason
by Zifre on Sun 29th Aug 2010 21:26 UTC
Zifre
Member since:
2009-10-04

I doubt that the lawyers are preventing them from going. Even if someone sues you for patents on a technology, you are still allowed to talk freely about said technology; you just aren't supposed to sell it.

However, it does make sense. I don't think they want to promote Java any more than they have to.

Reply Score: 2

RE: I doubt it's a legal reason
by basic on Mon 30th Aug 2010 14:26 UTC in reply to "I doubt it's a legal reason"
basic Member since:
2010-08-25

I doubt that the lawyers are preventing them from going. Even if someone sues you for patents on a technology, you are still allowed to talk freely about said technology; you just aren't supposed to sell it.


Obviously you've never been sued before. Anything you say can and probably will be used against you in court, not to mention they are dealing with the law firms that drove both sides of SCO vs Novell on the same side.

Reply Score: 2

RE[2]: I doubt it's a legal reason
by Zifre on Tue 31st Aug 2010 15:29 UTC in reply to "RE: I doubt it's a legal reason"
Zifre Member since:
2009-10-04

Obviously you've never been sued before.

True, I haven't.

Anything you say can and probably will be used against you in court

But only if it's somehow illegal or paints a bad picture of Google for the jury. Google is still allowed to talk freely about Java. You can only infringe patents by selling things, not by making or talking about things - and this case is about patents, not copyright or trademark.

Reply Score: 2

BAD ANALOGY
by jack_perry on Sun 29th Aug 2010 21:43 UTC
jack_perry
Member since:
2005-07-06

Fiona Apple is not awesome.

Reply Score: 10

RE: BAD ANALOGY
by Kroc on Sun 29th Aug 2010 21:54 UTC in reply to "BAD ANALOGY"
Kroc Member since:
2005-11-10

In Thom’s world she is, and we can’t change that; just like in Oracle’s world Google is ‘stealing’ Java and we can’t change their mind either ;)

Reply Score: 5

RE: BAD ANALOGY
by acidblue on Sun 29th Aug 2010 22:12 UTC in reply to "BAD ANALOGY"
acidblue Member since:
2006-02-06

Yes she is. The analogy is sound.

Reply Score: 1

RE: BAD ANALOGY
by Thom_Holwerda on Sun 29th Aug 2010 22:17 UTC in reply to "BAD ANALOGY"
Thom_Holwerda Member since:
2005-06-29

Ban.

Reply Score: 11

RE: BAD ANALOGY
by Morgan on Sun 29th Aug 2010 23:38 UTC in reply to "BAD ANALOGY"
Morgan Member since:
2005-06-29

Of course she's awesome! If I'm not mistaken, she once held the world record for the longest album title ever.

She's also a great songwriter, and not half bad at singing. Anyone who can mix Baroque, Jazz, Pop and general female angst and still be multi-platinum is a winner in my book. Then again, I have a weakness for wacky-but-talented female musicians (especially jazz singers) so maybe it's just me.

Reply Score: 4

RE[2]: BAD ANALOGY
by Tuishimi on Sun 29th Aug 2010 23:47 UTC in reply to "RE: BAD ANALOGY"
Tuishimi Member since:
2005-07-06

I forget things but... wasn't she some sort of classical pianist or violinist or something and thought, "well if all these other people with no talent can make a pop career, I can do it too?"

Reply Score: 1

RE[3]: BAD ANALOGY
by Morgan on Sun 29th Aug 2010 23:51 UTC in reply to "RE[2]: BAD ANALOGY"
Morgan Member since:
2005-06-29

I'm not sure, I bought her first album pretty much the day it came out way back in '96 and it is mostly jazz/neo-baroque style stuff. Thom's the expert on all things Fiona, maybe he can shed some light...

Reply Score: 2

RE[3]: BAD ANALOGY - lady gaga?
by jabbotts on Mon 30th Aug 2010 15:00 UTC in reply to "RE[2]: BAD ANALOGY"
jabbotts Member since:
2007-09-06

Isn't that Lady Gaga that was a classic pionist that donned a "bad girl" image and rocketed to the top of the charts? That's the most recent i can think of anyhow.

Reply Score: 2

Thom_Holwerda Member since:
2005-06-29

Are we honestly comparing Fiona Apple to professional slut and radio-whore Gaga? There's so many worlds between the introvert, shy, and mediaphobic Fiona - and Gaga, who sucks more media... Popcicles than a kindergarten class in July.

Reply Score: 1

jabbotts Member since:
2007-09-06

No comparison being made at all. I only suggested the name based on the previous poster's mention of a pop star who started as a classical pianist that thought "hey, if they can do it.. I gotta have the music background to get something from moving into pop music".

I'm not sure what Fiona Apple's background is so maybe she is a previous classically trained musician turned pop singer.

Neither of the two being the first to migrate to pop music from a less profitable classic or concern music background.

Reply Score: 2

RE[4]: BAD ANALOGY - lady gaga?
by Tuishimi on Mon 30th Aug 2010 15:06 UTC in reply to "RE[3]: BAD ANALOGY - lady gaga?"
Tuishimi Member since:
2005-07-06

I would say that is possible, but I know nothing about Lady Gaga (I know, my head is somewhat stuck in the sand).

Reply Score: 2

jabbotts Member since:
2007-09-06

"head somewhere stuck in the sand" - given most of the popular music getting radio play around here, your better off for it. I can tell you that my exposure to commercial radio is the five minute drive to and from work; even that's more than enough for them to overplay the treat of the week.

Reply Score: 2

RE[3]: BAD ANALOGY
by Tuishimi on Mon 30th Aug 2010 15:09 UTC in reply to "RE[2]: BAD ANALOGY"
Tuishimi Member since:
2005-07-06

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/38899630/ns/us_news-life/?GT1=43001

I guess not classically trained and accomplished but...

Apple grew up in New York City, on Manhattan's Upper West Side, as the daughter of artistic parents. Her father, Brandon Maggart, was an actor and her mother, Diane McAfee, was a multi-talented singer, dancer, nutritionist, fitness trainer, and cook. Apple began playing piano at eight years old.

Reply Score: 2

RE: BAD ANALOGY
by WereCatf on Mon 30th Aug 2010 00:12 UTC in reply to "BAD ANALOGY"
WereCatf Member since:
2006-02-15

Who is that?

Reply Score: 3

RE[2]: BAD ANALOGY
by toast88 on Mon 30th Aug 2010 07:01 UTC in reply to "RE: BAD ANALOGY"
toast88 Member since:
2009-09-23

Who is that?


Those were my first thoughts on that as well ;-). I was already feeling stupid for not knowing her though.

Reply Score: 1

RE[3]: BAD ANALOGY
by Kalessin on Mon 30th Aug 2010 22:53 UTC in reply to "RE[2]: BAD ANALOGY"
Kalessin Member since:
2007-01-18

LOL. Me too. I thought that Thom was talking about an Apple product of some sort. But then, I've never been much into popular music.

Reply Score: 1

RE[2]: BAD ANALOGY
by tyrione on Mon 30th Aug 2010 18:08 UTC in reply to "RE: BAD ANALOGY"
tyrione Member since:
2005-11-21

You must be really young or not a fan of pop music in the '90s.

http://www.fiona-apple.com/

Reply Score: 2

RE: BAD ANALOGY
by drstorm on Mon 30th Aug 2010 00:58 UTC in reply to "BAD ANALOGY"
drstorm Member since:
2009-04-24

Well, this is about as surprising as Fiona Apple being awesome in every possible way.

See, that's exactly the kind of thing I don't like about Thom's writing.

It does not matter whether I think Fiona is awesome or not. (Frankly, I have no idea who she is.) The point is that I don't care who she is and if I did, I would most certainly not look for clues to her awesomeness on a tech news site; and I definitely do not care about the editors personal preferences.

Finally, I would like this comment to be understood as a constructive criticism. Thom often makes some very insightful points in his stories and he does most of the work around here. We've all seen how empty it was while he was on the internship.

I'm just saying, if you'll allow me a small pun, some of his stories just don't have enough rainbow farting unicorns.

See, putting unicorns in the text, takes away the unicorns from it. See what I did there?


EDIT:
[...] it seems rather harsh to just punish the entire Java community because Oracle is being a di is suing Google.

I loved this. ;)

Edited 2010-08-30 01:05 UTC

Reply Score: 6

RE[2]: BAD ANALOGY
by Thom_Holwerda on Mon 30th Aug 2010 06:55 UTC in reply to "RE: BAD ANALOGY"
Thom_Holwerda Member since:
2005-06-29

Oh god guys don't take everything so seriously. Go French kiss a clown every now and then.

Reply Score: 2

RE[3]: BAD ANALOGY
by _QJ_ on Mon 30th Aug 2010 11:02 UTC in reply to "RE[2]: BAD ANALOGY"
_QJ_ Member since:
2009-03-12

:'-D
The Netherlands, twelve points... Les Pays-Bas douze points !

(Private joke for EU residents only). ;-P

Reply Score: 2

RE[2]: BAD ANALOGY
by liamdawe on Mon 30th Aug 2010 12:14 UTC in reply to "RE: BAD ANALOGY"
liamdawe Member since:
2006-07-04

"Well, this is about as surprising as Fiona Apple being awesome in every possible way.

See, that's exactly the kind of thing I don't like about Thom's writing.
"

You won't like 98% of tech writers then, almost every tech site i go on people compare what they are talking about to SOMETHING else.

Learn to chill out man.

Reply Score: 1

RE[3]: BAD ANALOGY
by drstorm on Mon 30th Aug 2010 15:28 UTC in reply to "RE[2]: BAD ANALOGY"
drstorm Member since:
2009-04-24

You won't like 98% of tech writers then, almost every tech site i go on people compare what they are talking about to SOMETHING else.

Learn to chill out man.

I don't think I need to chill, since I am not upset or angry or anything like that.

Yes, others do compare stuff to SOMETHING, but it's usually something widely known and accepted. Ars stories are (for the most part) a good example of impersonal style of writing.

This site is not (supposed to be) a blog, AFAIK.

Reply Score: 2

RE[4]: BAD ANALOGY
by Thom_Holwerda on Mon 30th Aug 2010 15:44 UTC in reply to "RE[3]: BAD ANALOGY"
Thom_Holwerda Member since:
2005-06-29

Yes, others do compare stuff to SOMETHING, but it's usually something widely known and accepted.


My apologies for trying to widen your view on the world. When I read stuff, I like to be challenged, and come across new things. I love references to obscure stuff because it means I'm learning.

Reply Score: 1

RE[5]: BAD ANALOGY
by drstorm on Mon 30th Aug 2010 16:39 UTC in reply to "RE[4]: BAD ANALOGY"
drstorm Member since:
2009-04-24

I'm a big fan of focusing on the things at hand. Your mentioning of an obscure (?) singer is as relevant to me as the ads I block. (Yes, the OS News ads are too intrusive. Sorry.)

I like coming across new things when I read, but they HAVE to be somehow related to what I'm reading, otherwise it's just random spam.


I feel that this discussion is heading in a wrong direction. I did not intend to argue or insult anyone. I am sorry if it seemed so. I was just pointing out my opinion - you know, the feedback.

I am glad you read and considered my comment, Thom, even though you seem to disagree with me. Thanks for your time. I just tried to do my part as a member of this community.

Reply Score: 2

RE[6]: BAD ANALOGY
by Feanor on Mon 30th Aug 2010 17:10 UTC in reply to "RE[5]: BAD ANALOGY"
Feanor Member since:
2006-12-21

I think that a line every few articles about Fiona Apple or Gilmore Girls, etc. give OSNews the character that keeps me coming back on a daily basis. If you want to read a article without flair, skip over Thom's editorials and go straight to the source material.

Reply Score: 2

RE[7]: BAD ANALOGY
by Neolander on Mon 30th Aug 2010 17:51 UTC in reply to "RE[6]: BAD ANALOGY"
Neolander Member since:
2010-03-08

Myself, I tend to like OSnews-style material, because it's a bit refreshing to see this outrageously oriented style every morning, compared to the politically correct neutrality that I'm used to...

Reply Score: 3

RE[7]: BAD ANALOGY
by drstorm on Mon 30th Aug 2010 17:52 UTC in reply to "RE[6]: BAD ANALOGY"
drstorm Member since:
2009-04-24

If you want to read a article without flair, skip over Thom's editorials and go straight to the source material.

Except, that for the most part, Thom's commentary is quite good. It's just these little quirks about farting unicorns and such that annoy me.

As I said, it's not such a big deal. Come on, guys, gimme a break...

Reply Score: 3

If I was Google
by mkools on Sun 29th Aug 2010 23:30 UTC
mkools
Member since:
2005-10-11

I would remove Oracle from their search engine, or put the bad publicity at the top results. Of course that isn't realistic but I would at least consider it ;)

Then again if I was the EU I would've never agreed with Oracle buying Sun. That company is so evil it even surpasses Apple and Microsoft.

So yeah, I agree with Google on this one.

Reply Score: 3

RE: If I was Google
by Morgan on Sun 29th Aug 2010 23:39 UTC in reply to "If I was Google"
Morgan Member since:
2005-06-29

I'm sure Google is taking the higher ground and sticking to true net neutrality concerning their search results.

Oh wait...

Reply Score: 5

RE[2]: If I was Google
by drstorm on Mon 30th Aug 2010 01:01 UTC in reply to "RE: If I was Google"
drstorm Member since:
2009-04-24

I'm sure Google is taking the higher ground and sticking to true net neutrality concerning their search results.

Oh wait...

I'm waiting. What?

Reply Score: 2

RE[2]: If I was Google
by RichterKuato on Mon 30th Aug 2010 02:13 UTC in reply to "RE: If I was Google"
RichterKuato Member since:
2010-05-14

I think you meant to say search neutrality there.

And yes there are concerns over just how neutral the results are. Especially since the introduction of "Universal Search" but mostly because nobody else can look at their algorithms.

Reply Score: 1

RE[3]: If I was Google
by Morgan on Mon 30th Aug 2010 08:17 UTC in reply to "RE[2]: If I was Google"
Morgan Member since:
2005-06-29

Well I was going for a double shot at Google: Their questionable search results and their two-faced stance on net neutrality.

Reply Score: 2

Oh Lord...
by Tuishimi on Sun 29th Aug 2010 23:45 UTC
Tuishimi
Member since:
2005-07-06

This is getting hairy.

Reply Score: 2

RE: Oh Lord...
by Priest on Mon 30th Aug 2010 03:09 UTC in reply to "Oh Lord..."
Priest Member since:
2006-05-12

Where are them Duke boys when you need em? amirite?

Reply Score: 2

Fiona IS awesome and...
by cmost on Sun 29th Aug 2010 23:55 UTC
cmost
Member since:
2006-07-16

Oracle sucks! To quote Rodney King: "Can't we all just get along?" Why Oracle is acting so aggressively towards F/OSS all of a sudden is disturbing. I fear for VirtualBox, Java, OpenOffice and any other project Sun promoted in the FOSS community.

Reply Score: 3

RE: Fiona IS awesome and...
by TheGZeus on Mon 30th Aug 2010 02:40 UTC in reply to "Fiona IS awesome and..."
TheGZeus Member since:
2010-05-19

I've been frustrated with VirtualBox's open-core-ness (no support for USB devices in OSE, for one thing) and slowish development, which has made KVM (much harder to use) and VMware (non-free) gain a notable amount of what it could have had.
KVM isn't bad, I just have no idea how to use it, and the how-tos aren't great for people like me, who just want to play with other operating systems. Much of it seems geared toward the enterprise market. The one front-end I tried was the one Ubuntu uses/made, and it's about as good as you can expect from them and their Python coders.


On a totally Off-Topic note:
I've never used a Python app that wasn't wonky in some way... gives me no confidence in the language. Yes, I've used non-ubuntu python things. I use eyeD3 nearly every day (I have alot of music that needs tagging work done), and gt5 once a week or so and both spit out errors randomly, even when performing the same task on the same thing. Scarier as that as they spit out dangerous-looking errors, they just keep going...

Reply Score: 1

RE: Fiona IS awesome and...
by nt_jerkface on Mon 30th Aug 2010 07:50 UTC in reply to "Fiona IS awesome and..."
nt_jerkface Member since:
2009-08-26

If Google had used the standard Java ME from the beginning there never would have been an issue.

Reply Score: 2

RE[2]: Fiona IS awesome and...
by Manish on Tue 31st Aug 2010 13:00 UTC in reply to "RE: Fiona IS awesome and..."
Manish Member since:
2009-12-18

If you read all the discussions, then you would have heard that Sun and Google failed to reach to a licensing agreement.

Reply Score: 1

Sun / Oracle actions
by acobar on Mon 30th Aug 2010 02:54 UTC
acobar
Member since:
2005-11-15

First, as much as I like FOSS goals and principles and use goodies from the community, having them glued as my main system for a looong time, and helped to disseminate them through advise or direct means, I have to say that, at least for me, some of the moves Oracle did do make sense from a business perspective, even if I do not agree with the ethics involved.

Frankly, I could not see why they "open sourced" Solaris and some other technologies, like ZFS (even though I am very glad they did). To me, Sun top managers were just running around trying to discover what could save their skins with no clue about what they really should do to improve the failing income and/or put the company on track, even if it would shrink in the process. They had no plans. At the end, they opted for a solution that could fill their wallets.

Now under Oracle umbrella, Solaris can be streamlined to be a very distinct product, one that have a differential when coupled with specific applications. Synergy is the name of the game. I have hope Solaris with flourish.

About, java, well, lets remember that the process to polish a language and the libraries that it encompass is a very participative one, it does not comes "ready" from sky. All community influences the whole process a lot and it gather ideas from others, sometimes very similar, projects. It is so true about java. As so, it is ethically very awkward to have someone "owning" the thing. For sure this should be explained on court. Google did not call dalvik java and really, it should not make any difference. Lets wait and see what Oracle has under their sleeves.

I do not fear about OpenOffice and MySQL going "closed", it is not possible now, but I do think we are going to see more "special" features not going to show up in the "free" source code version. They probably will play wisely, choosing carefully what they are going to not incorporate.

And about JavaOne, I think all other companies should follow Google to send a clear message to Oracle: watch very well your steps.

Edited 2010-08-30 02:56 UTC

Reply Score: 4

Java is not Oracle's technology anymore.
by spiderman on Mon 30th Aug 2010 05:35 UTC
spiderman
Member since:
2008-10-23

I wouldn't want to participate in an event to promote the technology of a competitor who's suing you.

That is a big mistake. Google IS developing Android and Android IS dependant on java. If Google could magically kill all java developers around the world, they would hurt themselves more than Oracle. Java is not Oracle. Oracle could not care less about java. Although java is integrated in Oracle databases, nobody use it. Everybody use PL/SQL.
Google should open native development on Android and add QT but then it would become Maemo/Meego.
Or they should drop Android and support MeeGo. The best mobile OS in the world promoted by the best advertizing company in the world. Now that would rock.

Edited 2010-08-30 05:36 UTC

Reply Score: 2

nt_jerkface Member since:
2009-08-26

It would have been nice for Google to use Qt but developers are not the main priority.

What they want is an app store that rivals that of the iphone and they don't want to make it easy for developers to port their apps to other platforms.

All you Google lovers need to wake up and realize that your open source boyfriend is just another publicly traded company. How long did it take for them to release a Linux version of Chrome? For a company that has billions they sure skimp on Linux ports. Opera is a proprietary company and they have done a better job of supporting Linux on a much smaller budget.

Reply Score: 3

spiderman Member since:
2008-10-23

I'm very far from a Google lover!
At the same time 95% of Google revenues come from adverts. I believe it does not matter if adverts are displayed in java or in QT to Google. The more people see their adverts the better. I believe the revenue from application bought on Android market is peanuts. Google controls Admob and Admob is everywhere except on the iPhone. I believe QT is good for Google. Any application developed on any OS that is not iOS is very likely to use AdMob. The more application and the more user per application, the better for AdMob and Google.
Google is full of shit, just like any other big corporation out there, but their interest is not the same as Apple's or Microsoft's or Oracle's. They are not in the software business. They do adverts. Their interest is to deliver adverts to the highest possible number of people. They are not in the business of locking up their walled garden, they are in the business of spamming their adverts down your throat. Why do you think they subsidize Mozilla, a competitor to their own browser? Because Firefox's advert money is just ad good as Chrome's to them.

Reply Score: 2

nt_jerkface Member since:
2009-08-26

Their interest is to deliver adverts to the highest possible number of people.


Whatever their business interest is with mobile is irrelevant. It doesn't change the fact that Android uses a non-standard Java and not Qt or another cross-platform toolkit. By the design of Android it is clear that don't want to encourage portable code.


Why do you think they subsidize Mozilla, a competitor to their own browser? Because Firefox's advert money is just ad good as Chrome's to them.


They don't subsidize Mozilla, it's a deal to keep Google as the default search engine and Mozilla doesn't get as much as they used to. MS would pay for that placement if Google didn't.

Reply Score: 2

Can Google Defend Itself?
by OSGuy on Mon 30th Aug 2010 09:35 UTC
OSGuy
Member since:
2006-01-01

Can Google defend themselves? Do they have a case or are they sitting ducks? Can they at least counter sue for something else?

I believe best choice for Google is to rewrite the Android API using their own language - the one they recently created or take MS's path and create something like C# I believe.

I hope Google wins.

Edited 2010-08-30 09:38 UTC

Reply Score: 2

Bad Oracle
by theuserbl on Mon 30th Aug 2010 12:11 UTC
theuserbl
Member since:
2006-01-10

In a german forum
http://www.heise.de/newsticker/foren/S-Sun-2007-Congratulations-Goo...
there have someone mentioned, that on 2007 the Sun CEO have congratulated Google for Android:

http://blogs.sun.com/jonathan/entry/congratulations_google
" I just wanted to add my voice to the chorus of others from Sun in offering my heartfelt congratulations to Google on the announcement of their new Java/Linux phone platform, Android. Congratulations!"

But Oracle see it now little bit different.


Additional german Java-User are unhappy with Oracle:

The german iJUG (interest-network of Java User Groups) have published its statement about Oracle:
http://www.ijug.eu/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=22:...

"The german iJUG is a umbrella organization of nine german Java User Groups and a german Oracle User Group.

The iJUG criticised that on the last events of Oracle nothing was said about the future of Java.
Additional the common Blogs and Twitter places publishing a lot of lesser informations.

A different problem is seen, that Oracle don't say anything about the relationship between its OpenSource products and the commercial variants like on GlassFish. "Oracle always say, its the same products with different license", said iJUG board member and leader of the Java User Group Erlangen/Nürnberg Oliver Szymanski, "but currently don't exists a evidence for it". Additional the behavior with OpenJDK7 and the future of JDK7 is unclear.

After the disappointed session of Oracle on the Java Forum Stattgart in Germany it stand in discussion, if the Java-Community should take the future of Java in its own hand. "For example you could much stronger agree for a further stage of OpenJDK", said Tobias Frech from the Java User Group Stuttgart. "JavaFX wants the community as OpenSource, too, to have the possibility to further develop it".

Kristian Rink from the Java User Group Saxony thinks to the same direction: "The technical aspects of the JVM should be within the scope of the JCP completly from the community and interested stakeholder done." For the JVM and JDK should be - in his opinion - the existing Sun-implementation as product-proof implementation by an Oracle-extern, open and company-independend unit like Apache or the Eclipse realised, which besiedes long-term ensuring of availability both technologies for development/evolution and priduct-distribution, additional respect the interests of the stakeholder in technical details and realizing it, without to be too much handicapped with the own product- and project-planing.

Concretely the users have questions like:
- Will be Java in the future further on created within the JCP? When yes, when will be a JSR for Java 7 start?
- Comming license-changes for the Java runtime, the JDK or JavaFX, especially with a view of the current lawsuit Oracle/Google?
- What plans Oracle to do long-term with duplications of much programs under one roof (GlassFish / WebLogic, Sun JDK / JRockit, Netbeans / JDeveloper)?
- Will Oracle be hold the Sun-policy, to not deploy its own patent rights against Open-Source-implementations?
- What happens with the Java Store?
- What happens with the former Sun employees?

The Java-Community is relative big and heterogeneous. There exists lot of commercial and non-commercail units, which its business operations, projects and activities have based on Java as the current ecosystem and which have hence a legitimate interest to have a continuousness of the status quo.
Java-developer telling however the iJUG permanent about project, where the use of Java would be sensible, but because of different reasons fail and other technologies have been used. "We giving Oracle time until the JavaOne on september", Fried Saacke sum up. "If there will be nothing satisfiable communicated, we will think about alternative strategies."

The iJUG have already spoken with Oracle about the mentioned problems and the company have appreciated it. Now the user waiting urging, that the producer appropriate react."



But there are also people, which have no hope in JavaONE 2010.

In a forum someone have mentioned Larry Ellisons comments from JavaONE 2009 and what is happend.

Larry Ellison says on JavaONE 2009
http://www.heise.de/developer/news/foren/S-Ellison-auf-der-JavaOne-...

- Enthusiasm for JavaFX:

> Going to JavaFX is going to let us build fantastic UIs in Java,
> and we hope, we encourage the OpenOffice group to quickly build
> their version of a spread sheet or a word app using JavaFX.

Idiot! - The people behind Suns OpenOffice-Team will be touched its haeds...


- Concentration to mobile applications:

> You will see us get very aggressive in developing Java applications
> for things like telephones and netbooks...
> there will be computers that are based on Java and JavaFX
> and devices based on Java and JavaFX, not only from Google but also from Sun.

Gasbag! - Nothing happend in this area!


- Steady by Java:

> Look at the past to see the future. We will do more of the same,
> no large changes, more investment and enthousiasm coming in from Oracle.

This is true: Around Java is currently not much happend;
only Java EE 6 was released.

- This are the importants themes on 2009.

Reply Score: 2

Isn't this exactly what microsoft did?
by google_ninja on Mon 30th Aug 2010 13:54 UTC
google_ninja
Member since:
2006-02-05

Forgive me if I am wrong, but way back didn't MS make a non standard JVM, and then get sued over it? Didn't everyone crucify them? Why is it that google can do the exact same thing, but oracle gets the flack?

Reply Score: 2

Thom_Holwerda Member since:
2005-06-29

Forgive me if I am wrong, but way back didn't MS make a non standard JVM, and then get sued over it? Didn't everyone crucify them? Why is it that google can do the exact same thing, but oracle gets the flack?


We've already covered this. This is NOT the same situation.

Reply Score: 2

nt_jerkface Member since:
2009-08-26

It is similar in that Google made their own non-standard Java stack. Google correctly predicted that Sun wouldn't sue them out of concern for the open source image they were promoting. However Sun was bought by Oracle who isn't trying to project the same image.

Reply Score: 2

umccullough Member since:
2006-01-26

It is similar in that Google made their own non-standard Java stack. Google correctly predicted that Sun wouldn't sue them out of concern for the open source image they were promoting. However Sun was bought by Oracle who isn't trying to project the same image.


The difference is the Google didn't call it Java (which Microsoft obtained a license explicitly to do), and they didn't claim it would run real Java.

Basically what Microsoft did was both a violation of a license agreement, and thus trademark infringement.

What Google is doing is patent infringement.

Reply Score: 2

nt_jerkface Member since:
2009-08-26

The underlying issue is the same in that both companies did not want to use the standard Java stack and just wanted to take parts from it.

Both companies would not have been sued if they stuck with standard Java.

Reply Score: 2

umccullough Member since:
2006-01-26

The underlying issue is the same in that both companies did not want to use the standard Java stack and just wanted to take parts from it.

Both companies would not have been sued if they stuck with standard Java.


IMO, that's like saying: Two different people didn't like the laws of their country, so one of them violated the laws and became a criminal, while the other moved to a country where the laws suited their needs.

Either way, they obtained the same end result right?

I personally don't view patent infringement (what Google did) nearly the same as copyright/trademark infringement (what Microsoft did)... but then again, some people do - whatever.

Edited 2010-08-31 18:33 UTC

Reply Score: 2