Linked by addoula on Tue 5th Oct 2010 22:02 UTC
Opera Software Since the launch of Opera 10.5 in March 2010, I've been using it as my primary browser, whether at work or at home. Using Ubuntu at work, and a Windows netbook at home, I wanted a fast browser for my netbook and a coherent browsing experience on both operating systems. And this is where Opera 10.5 (and newer) fits perfectly.
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WTF?
by aargh on Tue 5th Oct 2010 22:21 UTC
aargh
Member since:
2009-10-12

"The new back and forward buttons doesn’t offer the list of visited websites."
WTF? You must be using a different Opera than me. I've used it since 6.0something and it certainly doesn't lack the list. Just press and hold back button or forward button and the list will appear.

"Log In button in the toolbar"
Hmm, I don't even know what you're talking about, but I customize my toolbar to bare minimum, so I probably removed it. Did you know you can customize the toolbar?

"when installing Opera on five different machines and operating systems"
I agree with this point. Anyway, just copy the config files. "Hello synchronizations?!" Yes, they should extend Opera Link.

"CTRL + URL to open a new tab in the background".
What do you mean? I don't understand what is Ctrl + URL. To open a link on a new background tab, just middle-click the link.

"The excuse of legacy users is void."
What are you talking about here? I didn't understand this whole paragraph.

Edited 2010-10-05 22:23 UTC

Reply Score: 4

RE: WTF?
by addoula on Tue 5th Oct 2010 22:31 UTC in reply to "WTF?"
addoula Member since:
2005-10-23

Hi,

"The new back and forward buttons doesn’t offer the list of visited websites."
WTF? You must be using a different Opera than me. I've used it since 6.0something and it certainly doesn't lack the list. Just press and hold back button or forward button and the list will appear.

This isn't the same feature. Pressing and holding may be acceptable if using a mouse, but not if using a trackpad.


"Log In button in the toolbar"
Hmm, I don't even know what you're talking about, but I customize my toolbar to bare minimum, so I probably removed it. Did you know you can customize the toolbar?

By default, the Log in button (for the password manager) is present.
The question is not cutomizing the toolbar but what buttons should be present by default.


"when installing Opera on five different machines and operating systems"
I agree with this point. Anyway, just copy the config files. "Hello synchronizations?!" Yes, they should extend Opera Link.

Yep. I think if opera extends its Link service, it may become a killer feature.
Imagine installing Opera and with a click having everything configured! ;)

"CTRL + URL to open a new tab in the background".
What do you mean? I don't understand what is Ctrl + URL. To open a link on a new background tab, just middle-click the link.

The point is being able to open a new link in the background by clicking on that link and holding the CTRL key.
Sure middle mouse is the optimal solution, but that is nearly impossible if using a trackpad on a netbook.

"The excuse of legacy users is void."
What are you talking about here? I didn't understand this whole paragraph.

I mean, one excuse for not changing the shortcuts is that historic users uses them, and apparently Opera wants to respect that.
Although this is a move that shows that Opera respects its users, it is not very effective to gaining new users and more market share.

Reply Score: 4

RE[2]: WTF?
by aargh on Tue 5th Oct 2010 23:03 UTC in reply to "RE: WTF?"
aargh Member since:
2009-10-12

About your trackpad concerns - did you know that you can use Opera completely just from the keyboard? (The opposite is also largely true if you have a real mouse, except for entering text, apparently). I would know since on a computer many years ago, my non-optical mouse used to break sometimes (bad cable) and I learned to use only keyboard without any issues. I still sometimes find it faster, especially when I have to use a laptop, since I hate trackpads.

"changing the shortcuts"
Ahh, you struck my biggest PITA I have with Opera. So many times they introduced a great shortcut just to change it a few months later... But I have to admit mostly they're doing the change so that they use the same shortcuts as other browsers (from the top of my head alt-d, ctrl-b), which is a good thing. So I gave up and instead of customizing my keaybord shortcuts more and more I just learn the new ones.

Edited 2010-10-05 23:04 UTC

Reply Score: 2

RE[3]: WTF?
by vodoomoth on Wed 6th Oct 2010 08:24 UTC in reply to "RE[2]: WTF?"
vodoomoth Member since:
2010-03-30


"changing the shortcuts"
Ahh, you struck my biggest PITA I have with Opera. So many times they introduced a great shortcut just to change it a few months later... But I have to admit mostly they're doing the change so that they use the same shortcuts as other browsers (from the top of my head alt-d, ctrl-b), which is a good thing. So I gave up and instead of customizing my keaybord shortcuts more and more I just learn the new ones.

The weird thing is that I have written (and yes, ranted) about Opera adopting Firefox's shortcuts: ctrl+u for viewing the source of a page, ctrl+j for downloads (not sure about this) and others that I immediately reverted to what I had been using for eight years.

Reply Score: 1

RE[3]: WTF?
by PresentIt on Wed 6th Oct 2010 18:55 UTC in reply to "RE[2]: WTF?"
PresentIt Member since:
2010-02-10

So many times they introduced a great shortcut just to change it a few months later...

Such as?

Reply Score: 1

RE[4]: WTF?
by KLU9 on Fri 8th Oct 2010 16:45 UTC in reply to "RE[3]: WTF?"
KLU9 Member since:
2006-12-06

Example of a short-lived shortcut: CTRL + B = paste and go

It took me a while to realize that one existed (and to remember it), and then the third time I tried to use it (after a minor decimal point update), it didn't work any more!

Man, I still remember shortcuts like G (to toggle images off, cached, on) that haven't worked in years. Hell, I'm still tempted to press CTRL + N when I want a new page (yes, I said "page", dammit! Tabs are the little things at the top of... the actual fricking pages! What the hell would I need a new "tab" for?) ;)

Delving into configs to deal with the ever-changing shortcuts in Opera is a PITA (I deal with at least 4 different installs of my own, plus a couple on my GF's comps). If they could Sync that across all instances, that'd be sweet.

In the meantime, I've pretty much given up on learning keyboard shortcuts in Opera. If it works on one install, it won't on another. Or it'll just stop working with the next bloody update.

Even so, Opera's still my go-to browser. FF & Chrome just feel too limited out of the box (and FF too slow, especially when bloated up with add-ons).

Edited 2010-10-08 17:01 UTC

Reply Score: 1

RE[5]: WTF?
by PresentIt on Sat 9th Oct 2010 08:45 UTC in reply to "RE[4]: WTF?"
PresentIt Member since:
2010-02-10

None of those shortcuts were short-lived. You may not have discovered them until just before they changed, but they existed for many years before that.

Also, Opera's shortcuts are not always changing. Again you are making a completely bogus claim.

Shortcuts very rarely change in Opera, and when they do, there's a good reason for it. For example, the "g" shortcut ruined pages if you hit it by accident and had no idea how to get back to the regular view.

Reply Score: 1

RE[2]: WTF?
by deathshadow on Wed 6th Oct 2010 05:26 UTC in reply to "RE: WTF?"
deathshadow Member since:
2005-07-12

I don't know about you, but my trackpads all have BUTTONS next to them.

Reply Score: 6

RE[3]: WTF?
by vodoomoth on Wed 6th Oct 2010 08:22 UTC in reply to "RE[2]: WTF?"
vodoomoth Member since:
2010-03-30

yes, but most trackpads don't have a middle button. I for one have never seen any with my own eyes, whether in real life or in photographs.
Some don't support two-finger pressing the trackpad so that this action can be assigned to the middle click.

Reply Score: 1

RE[4]: WTF?
by bitwelder on Wed 6th Oct 2010 11:35 UTC in reply to "RE[3]: WTF?"
bitwelder Member since:
2010-04-27

Does a Thinkpad T43 qualify for having a "trackpad with middle button" ?
http://www.notebookreview.com/assets/4155.jpg

Edited 2010-10-06 11:36 UTC

Reply Score: 1

RE[4]: WTF?
by fretinator on Wed 6th Oct 2010 13:52 UTC in reply to "RE[3]: WTF?"
fretinator Member since:
2005-07-06

yes, but most trackpads don't have a middle button. I for one have never seen any with my own eyes, whether in real life or in photographs. Some don't support two-finger pressing the trackpad so that this action can be assigned to the middle click.


At least in Linux, you can press both buttons at the same time to get a middle-click. Also, you can usually turn on the multi-finger tapping. I would assume there is a way to do this in Windows with the right driver, but I don't know for a fact.

Reply Score: 2

RE[5]: WTF?
by vodoomoth on Wed 6th Oct 2010 14:40 UTC in reply to "RE[4]: WTF?"
vodoomoth Member since:
2010-03-30

When I installed Ubuntu (probably in May) on a 2003 Acer notebook, I just had multitouch enabled and the internal RTL8180 wifi card connected to a WPA2-protected network... No configuration, no questions asked. I had a true Wow! moment. Props to Linux guys.

The same notebook under Windows doesn't do anything other than WEP and the compatible Synaptics driver I scoured the web before finding uses multitouch for scrolling only, which it doesn't do well. Anyway, none of my notebooks supports multitouch well, and on both, there's no double clicking, whether using the physical buttons or using two fingers.

Reply Score: 1

RE[6]: WTF?
by fretinator on Wed 6th Oct 2010 14:51 UTC in reply to "RE[5]: WTF?"
fretinator Member since:
2005-07-06

My MSI Wind U230 had the same problem. It shipped with Windows 7, but the touchpad didn't support scrolling at all. The only way to scroll was to click on the trackbar and drag. I couldn't find a driver for it anywhere. I actually run Ubuntu on it, so I no longer have that problem. I just wonder why they ship a laptop like that. It is a Dual-Core Athlon Neo X2, and does HD video, so it is no slacker of a netbook (12-inch).

Reply Score: 2

RE[4]: WTF?
by deathshadow on Thu 7th Oct 2010 00:02 UTC in reply to "RE[3]: WTF?"
deathshadow Member since:
2005-07-12

Given we're talking about clicking and holding to get the drop-down menu on forward/back, what does middle click have to do with it?

Now if you just want to kvetch over middle-click on laptops as others have noted clicking both buttons gives you middle click in most OS, though this can conflict with Opera's flip navigation if you don't time it right... though you could always assign it to something simple like shift-right click.

Though when I'm on a laptop and want to scroll, I usually just use page-up/page-down or *SHOCK* the arrow keys.

Edited 2010-10-07 00:03 UTC

Reply Score: 2

RE[5]: WTF?
by vodoomoth on Thu 7th Oct 2010 14:38 UTC in reply to "RE[4]: WTF?"
vodoomoth Member since:
2010-03-30

Given we're talking about clicking and holding to get the drop-down menu on forward/back, what does middle click have to do with it?

The middle click was mentioned by the OP in his comment you were responding to. His post was not limited to clicking and holding. Yours wasn't either.

Reply Score: 1

RE[2]: WTF?
by PresentIt on Wed 6th Oct 2010 18:54 UTC in reply to "RE: WTF?"
PresentIt Member since:
2010-02-10

The point is being able to open a new link in the background by clicking on that link and holding the CTRL key.

Just hold Ctrl+Shift.

I mean, one excuse for not changing the shortcuts is that historic users uses them, and apparently Opera wants to respect that.

Really? Where did you hear that "excuse"? How come they have radically changed the shortcuts in Opera in the last few versions in order to be more aligned with other browsers, if what you are saying is true?

Reply Score: 1

RE[2]: WTF?
by vodoomoth on Thu 7th Oct 2010 14:48 UTC in reply to "RE: WTF?"
vodoomoth Member since:
2010-03-30

Hi,

""The new back and forward buttons doesn’t offer the list of visited websites."
WTF? You must be using a different Opera than me. I've used it since 6.0something and it certainly doesn't lack the list. Just press and hold back button or forward button and the list will appear.

This isn't the same feature. Pressing and holding may be acceptable if using a mouse, but not if using a trackpad.
"
I guess your trackpad has buttons. Holding a button shouldn't be that hard. But if you really don't want to "click and hold", the Back and Forward buttons are available in a different flavor that features the arrows you are talking about. Right click on the icon bar, Customize > Appearance > Buttons tab > "Browser" category. You know the rest.

But yes, you're right. I also think the default buttons should have had the arrows.

However, I didn't understand your relating the arrow to the closed tabs bin. The concepts attached to each seem different to me: the page history vs the history of closed tabs. You can't select a specific previous page you had visited from the closed tabs bin.

Reply Score: 1

RE[2]: WTF?
by toyotabedzrock on Sat 9th Oct 2010 15:44 UTC in reply to "RE: WTF?"
toyotabedzrock Member since:
2010-05-25

You can replace the back and forward buttons, they still exsist with the small arrow.

Right click the tool bar, goto customize, appearance.
Goto the Buttons tab and select browser on the left.
You will see the button there. The button will be shown with text, but that text will not appear unless you have the tool bar set to display text and images.
You can drag the button to where ever you want.

Reply Score: 1

Comment by some1
by some1 on Tue 5th Oct 2010 22:29 UTC
some1
Member since:
2010-10-05

> The new back and forward buttons doesn’t offer the list of visited websites.
There are separate back/fwd buttons as well, actually 2 kinds of them -- with list and without list, just click customize and replace buttons with the ones you like.

> Another missing shortcut, and this time with no solution, is the CTRL + URL to open a new tab in the background.
Right-button drag the URL a bit down. I find it more convenient, as it does not need moving 2 hands in sync.

Reply Score: 1

Other shortcoming
by pandronic on Tue 5th Oct 2010 22:33 UTC
pandronic
Member since:
2006-05-18

I miss the auto-suggest feature for the search bar. Also the UI of the Settings dialog box needs some love. The torrent client doesn't work as well as uTorrent. I also need Gmail and Yahoo mail notifiers (yes I know that Gmail offers a RSS).

Reply Score: 2

Euh... Opera launches fast ?
by Lennie on Tue 5th Oct 2010 23:32 UTC
Lennie
Member since:
2007-09-22

really ? I've not seen this at all, my Firefox installation has many extensions and has some really big sqlite-databases with history and bookmarks.

My Opera installation has pretty much never been used, but Opera takes longer to start than Firefox.

(this is on Ubuntu/Linux AND with SSD !)

Edited 2010-10-05 23:39 UTC

Reply Score: 0

On privacy
by Lennie on Tue 5th Oct 2010 23:38 UTC
Lennie
Member since:
2007-09-22

Interresting, how you say have privacy problems with Chrome (or Chromium) which is Open Source and people can look at the code. But you would use Opera instead because of that. Where no one can take a look at the code, other then Opera.

Reply Score: 3

RE: On privacy
by joekiser on Wed 6th Oct 2010 05:32 UTC in reply to "On privacy"
joekiser Member since:
2005-06-30

Wouldn't a more efficient method of ensuring privacy be to inspect the packets leaving your computer? In that case, it wouldn't really matter if you were using a closed-source or open-source browser.

Reply Score: 2

RE[2]: On privacy
by jgagnon on Wed 6th Oct 2010 12:52 UTC in reply to "RE: On privacy"
jgagnon Member since:
2008-06-24

The sad reality is that the vast majority of computer users have no clue as to what individual programs are (or are not) sending and/or receiving on their computers.

Reply Score: 1

RE: On privacy
by rafaelluik on Wed 6th Oct 2010 17:31 UTC in reply to "On privacy"
rafaelluik Member since:
2010-10-06

Chrome isn't open-source.
It has closed-source parts.

Only Chromium project (which doesn't contain Google's personalization + stealing data engine ;) ) is open-source.

Reply Score: 1

Been using Opera since late 90s
by mfaudzinr on Tue 5th Oct 2010 23:53 UTC
mfaudzinr
Member since:
2008-02-13

LOVE IT, LOVE IT, LOVE IT. There are quite a lot of stuff I really appreciate in Opera that are just easier to use. I do use Opera with IE/Firefox for websites that may have rendering/compatibility issues. I have to say the latest iteration is basically almost issue free.

Still does not support silverlight but there's a workaround. So far I am very satisfied with Opera. Fast, stable, standard compliant and tons of functions built in. BTW it is the first browser (None beta) to achieve 100% on the Acid3 test if that meant anything.

Opera could have been the more popular browser if based on functionality, speed, stability and compliance, but it is not. That's ok. Just give it a spin... Like or not, I don't bash other browsers for the lack of this or that, nothing's perfect out there Opera included - it may not be perfect but it's perfect for me.

Reply Score: 1

vodoomoth Member since:
2010-03-30

Totally agree. I could have written exactly that, except the IE thing: I only use Firefox for compatibility issues. I just can't live without the side panel, the tab bar wrapping in multiple lines and the customization.

The thing that could have been interesting to discuss is why Opera hasn't been popular despite the speed, the numerous good ideas, the small size compared to the features and, above anything else for me, the customization possibilities.

I will take a wild guess here and say that their not listening to user requests, despite the "Desktop wish-list" section in the forums, has a part in it. So many times, browsing through the forums in general and that section in particular, I've had the feeling that they just don't listen. Nor do they explain choices or how they plan priorities. For instance, we've been waiting (and I asked for it) for years for a Delete button in the opera:cache page. How useful is the cache if you need to empty it just to test something you are developing? If it's not high on your priorities, a simple reason/justification may be enough for people to be patient. Or give an extension framework, or let someone contribute the stupid 20-line Javascript code that will fix the issue. Some will say users should not dictate priorities but I think good communication with the user community is essential but they are probably not the only ones to have some wet clay in their ears.

Reply Score: 1

Fergy Member since:
2006-04-10

How useful is the cache if you need to empty it just to test something you are developing?

If you are part of 99,99% of the users that are not developers then it is wonderful. Why do you think it is weird that your extreme minority gets a lower priority?

Reply Score: 1

vodoomoth Member since:
2010-03-30

Opera has presented its browser as a wonderful browser for web developers (which I am no longer). Just like Chrome does and just like Microsoft did with its ludicrous browsers features comparison chart.

Moreover, there have been many changes to the cache manager in the new breed after Opera 9.27. If they were willing to implement an obfuscated naming scheme for items in the cache, why not provide an individual button in each line of the items listing?

I am sure there's no need to be a developer before wanting to delete an item from a repository. We do that for cookies, we do that for the wand (aka "Password Manager" as of one of the latest versions), why not for the cache? With this feature, I'm marking Opera with my "Perfection" stamp. Anyway, the odds of me needing that are lower in my current position.

Reply Score: 1

PresentIt Member since:
2010-02-10

The thing that could have been interesting to discuss is why Opera hasn't been popular despite the speed, the numerous good ideas, the small size compared to the features and, above anything else for me, the customization possibilities.

What makes you say that it hasn't been popular? It has more than 100 million users worldwide, and has a massive market share in many countries. Maybe not in Western Europe and the US, but look at countries like Russia, etc. Opera is one of the top 2-3 browsers there.

So to claim that Opera "hasn't been popular" based on a narrow view on the West is a fallacy.

I will take a wild guess here and say that their not listening to user requests


That is demonstrably false. They constantly do stuff based on direct feedback. Now, maybe your personal pet wishes haven't been granted, but that doesn't mean that they aren't listening. It just means that your wish isn't popular enough or important enough.

or instance, we've been waiting (and I asked for it) for years for a Delete button in the opera:cache page.


Wow, that must be one of the most useless requests I've heard in a long time. Just because they didn't grant you your personal wish, an obscure setting somewhere, doesn't mean that they aren't listening.

"Listening" does not involve bending to every single user's whim.

Reply Score: 1

vodoomoth Member since:
2010-03-30

Did you understand the cache thing was an example, right?

And despite what you who told just the sentence before, you write "Wow, that must be one of the most useless requests I've heard in a long time"?

Have you ever experienced what I was talking about? Have you read my other posts on this very news item?
Thanks for your wisdom and for the enlightenment. Be well.

Reply Score: 1

PresentIt Member since:
2010-02-10

Sure the cache thing was an example. And a very crappy one at that.

Or rather, it perfectly illustrates how your thinking is wrong: "Something I want wasn't added, therefore they aren't listening."

Reply Score: 1

Sticking with 10.10
by WorknMan on Wed 6th Oct 2010 00:18 UTC
WorknMan
Member since:
2005-11-13

In v9.64 on Windows, they broke automatic downloading of voice files for text-to-speech, so you had to install it manually. After v10.10, they broke it completely so text-to-speech doesn't work at all anymore, even though the UI for it is still there.

That is the only feature I cared about (I haven't found another text-to-speech engine that works as well), so I'm sticking with 10.10. As this version will eventually become outdated, I found a way to 'remote control' voice so I can use it with Firefox.

Numerous threads about the broken text-to-speach feature have been posted in the 'Accessibility' section of the Opera forums, and have been ignored by Opera (the company), as well as bug reports. Any attempts to post about this outside of the Accessibility forum to try and get SOME kind of response from them results in the thread being locked.

In short, f**k Opera and their broken browser.

Reply Score: 1

RE: Sticking with 10.10
by Kochise on Wed 6th Oct 2010 07:23 UTC in reply to "Sticking with 10.10"
Kochise Member since:
2006-03-03

"In short, f**k Opera and their broken browser"

It is a browser, not a text-to-speech, which is a browser feature. Making the browser inoperative for a lack of feature is a bit... extreme :/

Kochise

Reply Score: 1

RE[2]: Sticking with 10.10
by WorknMan on Wed 6th Oct 2010 09:37 UTC in reply to "RE: Sticking with 10.10"
WorknMan Member since:
2005-11-13

It is a browser, not a text-to-speech, which is a browser feature. Making the browser inoperative for a lack of feature is a bit... extreme :/


Fine then, take the feature out and be done with it. But don't ship with it completely broken, and then ignore users who ask about it. I mean, if you right click in the browser with text highlighted and hit 'speak', it'll offer to download the voice files for you, but fails every time. I'd say this was an epic fail on Opera's part.

Edited 2010-10-06 09:39 UTC

Reply Score: 2

RE[3]: Sticking with 10.10
by PresentIt on Wed 6th Oct 2010 18:59 UTC in reply to "RE[2]: Sticking with 10.10"
PresentIt Member since:
2010-02-10

Fine then, take the feature out and be done with it. But don't ship with it completely broken, and then ignore users who ask about it.

You are ignoring another aspect here... IBM. Opera's voice system is subject to IBM's license terms.

And knowing IBM, they probably have a gag order on Opera as well, so they couldn't do anything about it, and they couldn't talk about it either. If they did, they would be in breach of contract, and sued.

Opera does not want to mess with IBM's army of lawyers.

Reply Score: 2

Opera fan
by jessesmith on Wed 6th Oct 2010 00:56 UTC
jessesmith
Member since:
2010-03-11

I've been a happy Opera user for several years. There was a brief period there when they first introduced 10.00 that I ran into problems. However, those issues were sorted out and I find it's the browser which best suits my needs.

Reply Score: 1

Nothing stands firefox addons
by void_false on Wed 6th Oct 2010 01:29 UTC
void_false
Member since:
2010-10-06

I own a netbook too with a touchscreen. It's gigabyte m912. Only with firefox i could tweak it to satisfy all my needs:
"grab and drag" - so i can scroll web pages by just dragging any part of the page.

"quickDrag" - open a link in new tab by just dragging a link aside.

"adblock" + "noscript" - enable only wanted scripts and objects and disable unwanted ads.

I have other addons but they are not unique.
Now show me how can I achieve this usability on your opera and i will uninstall firefox on all of my computers.

Reply Score: 1

rafaelluik Member since:
2010-10-06

LOL your needs are stupidity.

Reply Score: 0

RE: Nothing stands firefox addons
by PresentIt on Wed 6th Oct 2010 19:01 UTC in reply to "Nothing stands firefox addons"
PresentIt Member since:
2010-02-10

You can grab and drag in Opera. There's a modifier shortcut (Ctrl+Alt), or you can enable it permanently (and hold Ctrl+Alt to disable temporarily).

You can drag links to open them in a new tab in Opera.

NoScript is built into Opera, and there are many ways to block ads.

So all of those are already available in Opera, or possible to do.

Reply Score: 1

why I don't use opera
by dayalsoap on Wed 6th Oct 2010 04:49 UTC
dayalsoap
Member since:
2010-05-19

1) no autosearch with the search bar

2) No easy adblocker. I just want to install one and select a filter like with FF or even chrome. Until Opera can do this, the hell with it.

Also, hoe about bookmark synching? I have xmarks on FF (yes i know it's going under). What does Opera have?

Edited 2010-10-06 04:50 UTC

Reply Score: 2

RE: why I don't use opera
by joekiser on Wed 6th Oct 2010 05:27 UTC in reply to "why I don't use opera"
joekiser Member since:
2005-06-30

Opera has "Opera Link," which I'm almost certain came out before any bookmark synchronization addons for FF came out. I am a FF user, but whenever I load Opera it still pulls my bookmarks from the server which I saved back in my university days...maybe as far back as 2006?

Reply Score: 4

RE: why I don't use opera
by vodoomoth on Wed 6th Oct 2010 08:44 UTC in reply to "why I don't use opera"
vodoomoth Member since:
2010-03-30

1) no autosearch with the search bar

2) No easy adblocker. I just want to install one and select a filter like with FF or even chrome. Until Opera can do this, the hell with it.

Also, hoe about bookmark synching? I have xmarks on FF (yes i know it's going under). What does Opera have?

Bear in mind that lots of features (I started by writing "almost any feature") you can find in other browsers came from Opera. I laughed when I read the article author saying that he switched to Firefox in 2004 because it had tabs... I don't know when these got in FF, but I started using Opera in 2000 and i've always known it with tabs (and always disabled the New window shortcut). Same thing with ad-blocking (which I agree has not been taken as far as possible), the preferences editing page, mouse gestures, proposing bookmark entries and history entries from the address bar, and what not. For reference, here is a link I had already posted here a few months back: http://www.opera.com/docs/history/

Note that Opera synchronizes not only your bookmarks, but also your personal bar, speed dial, notes and other things I never use. Oh, your mobile instance of Opera is also included in the synchronization.

Reply Score: 3

RE: why I don't use opera
by PresentIt on Wed 6th Oct 2010 19:03 UTC in reply to "why I don't use opera"
PresentIt Member since:
2010-02-10

What do you mean by "autosearch with the search bar"?

Opera has a lot of easy ad blockers, sucha s this one:

http://www.fanboy.co.nz/adblock/opera/

Opera has been syncing bookmarks for ages.

Reply Score: 1

RE[2]: why I don't use opera
by dayalsoap on Thu 7th Oct 2010 07:07 UTC in reply to "RE: why I don't use opera"
dayalsoap Member since:
2010-05-19

That one seems to work, thank you.

That's not easy to find. I don't even know that it shows up on Opera's own web site, and if it does, it's not one of the first ones.

Yes, the synching, but it doesn't synch across browsers, only Opera.

Autosearch: as I'm typing in the search bar in FF, it displays results real-time and shows me the most relevant ones. This is quite common.


Edit: your adblocker already failed me. What a junk

Edited 2010-10-07 07:08 UTC

Reply Score: 1

RE[3]: why I don't use opera
by PresentIt on Thu 7th Oct 2010 16:50 UTC in reply to "RE[2]: why I don't use opera"
PresentIt Member since:
2010-02-10

That's not easy to find. I don't even know that it shows up on Opera's own web site, and if it does, it's not one of the first ones.

Like AdBlock is not an official extension from Mozilla, that one is not officially from Opera.

Yes, the synching, but it doesn't synch across browsers, only Opera.

Other browser don't sync across browsers either, apparently:

http://arstechnica.com/open-source/guides/2010/10/ars-examines-chro...

Edit: your adblocker already failed me. What a junk

Try another ad blocker then. There are many different options.

Reply Score: 1

meh
by MamiyaOtaru on Wed 6th Oct 2010 05:41 UTC
MamiyaOtaru
Member since:
2005-11-11

shacknews.com comments section still broken, as it has been since 10.5. Deal breaker for me. And yeah I've filed a report and they have a test-case. Their fault or not it is indicative of the danger of using a non mainstream browser. In this case the site that doesn't work happens to be one I visit multiple times every day. It's killed 10.5 for me.

Reply Score: 2

RE: meh
by PresentIt on Wed 6th Oct 2010 19:08 UTC in reply to "meh"
PresentIt Member since:
2010-02-10

Try masking as Firefox. I heard something about Shacknews using browser sniffing to cause problems for Opera users.

Reply Score: 1

Replies to the author
by Liquidator on Wed 6th Oct 2010 06:24 UTC
Liquidator
Member since:
2007-03-04

The new back and forward buttons doesn’t offer the list of visited websites.

Yes it does. Just keep your mouse pressed on the "Back" button for a second and the list shows up.

No small arrow to access these websites quickly.

No need to clutter the interface. The implementation is here already.

Also, the inclusion of the Log In button in the toolbar by default is questionable.

It's not. It's convenient. This is one of the primary reasons why I use Opera. No other browser offers this exact functionality.

As Opera doesn’t offer an extension system, then it is the duty of Opera to offer a full ad blocking feature that support subscriptions

I don't see the rationale here. What's the relationship between offering an extension framework and supporting subscriptions? Anyway, it's easy to update your urlfilter file automatically. Just schedule your computer to download in the background the urlfilter file everyday. Problem solved.

Reply Score: 2

Opera
by 0brad0 on Wed 6th Oct 2010 06:30 UTC
0brad0
Member since:
2007-05-05

I agree about Firefox being bloated slow, but until Opera is open source I can't use it.

Reply Score: 0

RE: Opera
by Kochise on Wed 6th Oct 2010 07:21 UTC in reply to "Opera"
Kochise Member since:
2006-03-03

Are you managing to use the (compiled) browser or the (uncompiled) source code to surf the web ?

Kochise

Reply Score: 1

RE[2]: Opera
by 0brad0 on Thu 7th Oct 2010 00:08 UTC in reply to "RE: Opera"
0brad0 Member since:
2007-05-05

Are you managing to use the (compiled) browser or the (uncompiled) source code to surf the web ?

Kochise


I can use Firefox, Chromium, Konqueror, Midori, Epiphany and I am looking at porting Arora. At the moment I am using Firefox but I am looking at switching to Midori or Arora.

Reply Score: 1

RE: Opera
by Liquidator on Wed 6th Oct 2010 07:26 UTC in reply to "Opera"
Liquidator Member since:
2007-03-04

LOL...My grand mother doesn't bother if it's opensource or not. She uses what she's most comfortable with ;)

Reply Score: 2

RE[2]: Opera
by 0brad0 on Fri 8th Oct 2010 04:14 UTC in reply to "RE: Opera"
0brad0 Member since:
2007-05-05

LOL...My grand mother doesn't bother if it's opensource or not. She uses what she's most comfortable with ;)


Kinda hard to use when it doesn't run on my system.

Reply Score: 1

I love opera
by dvhh on Wed 6th Oct 2010 07:23 UTC
dvhh
Member since:
2006-03-20

I think I would mostly bitch about the lack of extensibility, a decent ad-blocker is badly missing, and probably some bookmarklet customization (icon instead of text), even with the userscripts, which are not as straightforward as greasemonkey or chrome.

But overall opera is nice, but lack compatibility with badly written website. And dragonfly is not a good replacement for firebug.
Appart from that I love opera frugality ( where chrome and firefox are gobbing memory ), and apparent speed under the pressure of hundreds of tabs, and it's pretty easy to manage them (simple tab list in the sidebar).

Anyway the lack of extensibility didn't prevent safari to have it's popularity, and it's basic features beat most firefox extension.

by the way a good ad-blocker for opera would be adsweep
an ad-blocker written in javasript for userscript usage.

Reply Score: 2

RE: I love opera
by PresentIt on Wed 6th Oct 2010 19:07 UTC in reply to "I love opera"
PresentIt Member since:
2010-02-10

But overall opera is nice, but lack compatibility with badly written website.

Mask as Firefox, and 99% of all broken sites will "magically" start working. The problem isn't Opera's compatibility, but that sites are using browser sniffing to block Opera.

And dragonfly is not a good replacement for firebug.

Have you tried it lately? It's making great strides. It apparently has more than 100K daily users as well, so it must be doing something right.

Reply Score: 1

Comment by kvarbanov
by kvarbanov on Wed 6th Oct 2010 07:43 UTC
kvarbanov
Member since:
2008-06-16

Finally a different view on a browser other than Chrome .... I got a little bit sick of reading all about Chrome and Apple ...

Reply Score: 4

PPC version R.I.P.
by Riba on Wed 6th Oct 2010 07:56 UTC
Riba
Member since:
2006-02-12

I was happily using Opera on my laptop and PPC Mac Mini at home, but they just dropped PPC support. Weird to see Apple still supporting PPC with the current Safari versions and Opera dropping it....

Reply Score: 1

Opera for me
by blitze on Wed 6th Oct 2010 08:46 UTC
blitze
Member since:
2006-09-15

Been using Opera on the desktop for quite some time. Now tried Opera Mobile on my N900 and I like it.

I keep looking at what other browsers are doing but for my needs and browsing Opera fits the bill. Opera Mobile seems more responsive and easier to navigate on the N900 compared to the Maemo Browser and Firefox. Just my 2 cents.

Reply Score: 2

Welcome
by vodoomoth on Wed 6th Oct 2010 08:49 UTC
vodoomoth
Member since:
2010-03-30

addoula, welcome to the Opera user base... for long I hope.

Reply Score: 1

Venom
by Anonymous Coward on Wed 6th Oct 2010 10:10 UTC
Anonymous Coward
Member since:
2005-07-06

Careful all of you nay-sayers. Opera fans are just as venomous as Apple fans.

I used Opera 3.62 way back, but could just never get used to it on the desktop. Granted it has a lot going for it, and invented many features people love, but it's not open source, not very extensible, and their CEO never went swimming when everyone downloaded it to see him swim.

On the other hand, I have a crappy Win Mobile phone that Opera Mobile runs great on.

I really have no major gripes with Opera, but it won't be my default browser (nor will Chrome) as long as it doesn't offer what Firefox does for debugging websites. (Web Developer, ColorZilla, MeasureIt, FireBug, DOM Inspector, Server Spy, etc)

Reply Score: 0

RE: Venom
by PresentIt on Wed 6th Oct 2010 19:06 UTC in reply to "Venom"
PresentIt Member since:
2010-02-10

Opera fans are just as venomous as Apple fans.


But nothing compared to Firefox fans:

http://www.informationweek.com/news/windows/security/showArticle.jh...

Several users complained that the Firefox community has a bad attitude.

"I encountered a surprising amount of hostility from the admins when I decided to post what I thought was a new issue as a new bug. The admins told me I was wasting their time and that I should search the bug database before posting. Anyway, this attitude seems fairly common among open-source folks. I think the problem is that although you can find all kinds of people who want to do the programming, nobody wants to do support or documentation on open source projects, particularly as they will not be paid for it. In my opinion, this will prevent open-source solutions from ever going fully mainstream," said user Jeff Rivett.

"Firefox is slow, slower than IE, way slower than Opera," said user Gord Braun. "Mostly though, it's the foaming-at-the-mouth FF fans who keep me turned off on the browser. Imo, Firefox is like Linux — more religion than reality."

Reply Score: 1

RE[2]: Venom
by Anonymous Coward on Wed 6th Oct 2010 20:49 UTC in reply to "RE: Venom"
Anonymous Coward Member since:
2005-07-06

But nothing compared to Firefox fans:


You'll get no argument from me.

Way too many take things like this way too seriously, or get all offended when you tell them their work is buggy.

With web browsers, I usually suggest people try a Chromium build (not Chrome!), Opera, and Firefox and choose what they prefer.

As a user, I prefer Opera and Chromium, as a developer I prefer Firefox.... my biggest requirement user side is that it runs on Linux and Windows.... which usually also means it runs on a Mac.

Reply Score: 1

Its THEIR own way ...
by vermaden on Wed 6th Oct 2010 10:21 UTC
vermaden
Member since:
2006-11-18

Another missing shortcut, and this time with no solution, is the CTRL + URL to open a new tab in the background. This shortcut is the most used keyboard shortcut in browsers, and all browsers support it... Except Opera! (In Opera, two keyboard buttons are needed for this, SHIFT + CTRL + URL). Not only Opera doesn’t offer it by default, but there is no way to add it using Opera’s own configuration tools. Some javascript hacks exists to try to offer similar functionality, but this isn’t the same. Opera needs to add this shortcut by default.


Tell me, WHY would Opera would want to mimic others while they have THEIR OWN ways to do things?

Yes, it should be possible to change the default behaviour, but saying that Opera would be better because it would mimic others browsers shortcuts its nonesense.

Just think about HOW MANY features OTHER browsers 'stolen' from Opera ... and now THEY are THE standart?

Reply Score: 3

RE: Its THEIR own way ...
by Fergy on Wed 6th Oct 2010 12:18 UTC in reply to "Its THEIR own way ..."
Fergy Member since:
2006-04-10

Tell me, WHY would Opera would want to mimic others while they have THEIR OWN ways to do things?

Yes, it should be possible to change the default behaviour, but saying that Opera would be better because it would mimic others browsers shortcuts its nonesense.

Just think about HOW MANY features OTHER browsers 'stolen' from Opera ... and now THEY are THE standart?

Wow, that's a lot of shouting
(Firefox's spell-check found error's in between the shouts)

Reply Score: 1

The darkest side:
by oinet on Wed 6th Oct 2010 10:45 UTC
oinet
Member since:
2010-03-23

No extension API.

Right now Opera is my main browser, but for me, as Opera without extension API has very little capabilities, the first of two browsers that does this is the winner and will be my main browser:

Opera: Extension API.
Firefox 4.x: Responsive UI.

Ready ? FIGHT !

Edited 2010-10-06 10:56 UTC

Reply Score: 1

RE: The darkest side:
by addoula on Wed 6th Oct 2010 13:21 UTC in reply to "The darkest side:"
addoula Member since:
2005-10-23

No extension API.

Right now Opera is my main browser, but for me, as Opera without extension API has very little capabilities, the first of two browsers that does this is the winner and will be my main browser:

Opera: Extension API.
Firefox 4.x: Responsive UI.

Ready ? FIGHT !


Exactly. Opera's lack of an extension system makes the browser limited to only what Opera's developers choose to add.
This is something we can say also about IE 9. Very impressive work from Microsoft, but as Opera, no extension api.

Firefox is a great browser. Very complete, but its performance on limited computers (i.e, netbooks) makes us, users, in a difficult position to keep using it.
There is great expectations with version 4. Mozilla ought not to deceive us, and must deliver a light responsive product.

Reply Score: 1

No such thing as universal appeal
by vodoomoth on Wed 6th Oct 2010 10:49 UTC
vodoomoth
Member since:
2010-03-30


Also, the inclusion of the Log In button in the toolbar by default is questionable. The toolbar should be as clean as possible and specific concern buttons (such as the Log In or even the Home button) should be removed from the default toolbar.

There's no browser where removing what bothers you is as easy: right click on the icon > Customize > Remove from toolbar. And you're done! Two clicks, that's all it takes.

Many people refer to the UI as the place where Opera sucks. I don't think any application would ever have a UI that's deemed adequate by everybody. I think Chrome's looks like a desert. The fact is that with Opera, if you don't like it, you CAN change it. Don't like the rounded tab corners? there are tons of skins, just a few clicks aways, that will provide you with squared ones, or maybe slanted ones, à la Eclipse or à la Chrome.

Reply Score: 1

Fergy Member since:
2006-04-10

There's no browser where removing what bothers you is as easy: right click on the icon > Customize > Remove from toolbar. And you're done! Two clicks, that's all it takes.

Right click on the icon>customize>drag from toolbar
I don't get the difference between Firefox and Opera...

Reply Score: 1

vodoomoth Member since:
2010-03-30

I did try it before writing it in my post: I even wrote "no window, no drag and drop" before replacing it with what I finally posted. With Opera, there's no further action once you click the Remove from toolbar option in the context menu: the menu vanishes and the button is gone.

Reply Score: 1

tl;dr
by aliquis on Wed 6th Oct 2010 11:17 UTC
aliquis
Member since:
2005-07-23

But Opera was a possible choice long before his Firefox 0.9.

I don't know if Firefox had caught up and were as good or better back then. It's definitely isn't now (and yeah, I'm arguing it wasn't some time before 0.9 either.)

Don't see why I should read some random guys opinion on a new browser he's just switched to with no knowledge of older versions or other browsers than his long time Firefox love affair.

Edited 2010-10-06 11:18 UTC

Reply Score: 2

BlockIt - NoScript for Opera
by dapxin on Wed 6th Oct 2010 11:21 UTC
dapxin
Member since:
2009-03-13

This is a very good Opera ver. of NoScript

http://files.myopera.com/shoust/files/HTMLDocumentation.html

Reply Score: 1

More questions
by Fergy on Wed 6th Oct 2010 12:47 UTC
Fergy
Member since:
2006-04-10

I have more questions than answers after the article.
- You chose Firefox over Opera because of tabs but Opera was the first browser with tabs.
- You chose Firefox over Opera because it was clean but you like that Opera includes mail, IRC, notes, torrent etc.
- You claim that Opera doesn't have any serious performance problems whereas Firefox 3.x and IE8 do but Firefox 3.6 separates plugins from the main process so would do better than Opera. And Chrome has everything separate so is even better.
- You complain a lot about default choices that don't perfectly suit you but do you really expect Opera to chose your defaults?

Chose Chrome for speed, Firefox for extensibility and Opera if you are in between ;)

Reply Score: 2

RE: More questions
by PresentIt on Wed 6th Oct 2010 19:02 UTC in reply to "More questions"
PresentIt Member since:
2010-02-10

You chose Firefox over Opera because it was clean but you like that Opera includes mail, IRC, notes, torrent etc.

The thing about Opera's features is that they are disabled by default, and stay out of the way until you actually enable them manually.

You claim that Opera doesn't have any serious performance problems whereas Firefox 3.x and IE8 do but Firefox 3.6 separates plugins from the main process so would do better than Opera. And Chrome has everything separate so is even better.

That doesn't change the fact that Opera performs better, especially on slower computers.

Separate processes causes more overhead, and thus worse performance.

Chose Chrome for speed, Firefox for extensibility and Opera if you are in between ;)

Actually, Opera is faster than Chrome.

Reply Score: 2

RE[2]: More questions
by Fergy on Wed 6th Oct 2010 20:41 UTC in reply to "RE: More questions"
Fergy Member since:
2006-04-10

Actually, Opera is faster than Chrome.

Please run the kraken benchmark in 1 tab and a full hd video in flash and then try to surf in a third tab. That is the reason why I would call Chrome faster. Not because you get a slightly higher score on sunspider.

Edited 2010-10-06 20:41 UTC

Reply Score: 1

RE[3]: More questions
by PresentIt on Wed 6th Oct 2010 21:55 UTC in reply to "RE[2]: More questions"
PresentIt Member since:
2010-02-10

Chrome always slows down if you open more than a few tabs. Opera can open hundreds of tabs and remain perfectly responsive. So yeah, three tabs in Chrome? LOL.

Reply Score: 1

Comment by J-freebsd_98
by J-freebsd_98 on Wed 6th Oct 2010 13:41 UTC
J-freebsd_98
Member since:
2006-01-01

Opera's tabbed browsing (here) puts it way ahead of the other contenders, a few years ago many sites recoded OR opera recoded, It seems one-fifth of sites behave poorly and require the "author mode-user mode" button to toggle from 'author' to 'user' mode. Took me a lot of searching to find out how to put that button on one of the toolbars. Hopefully whichever (sites or opera) is the cause will be fixed within a few years... Symptoms: typically cannot click on many links on a page because "overlay links" cover the link to click once the mouse is positioned upon the latter. (CSS rather than frames maybe?)

Reply Score: 1

OPERA, one of the best since...
by jang430 on Wed 6th Oct 2010 13:55 UTC
jang430
Member since:
2010-10-06

I've been a long time reader of Osnews. Wow, can't imagine this is the first time that I felt compelled to post a comment. I've been an Opera user since Opera 5+, and can't praise Opera more for their innovations on browsers.

The other user's comment is exactly the way I felt. When FF was bragging about tabs, I just can't understand the excitement since Opera has been with tabs for the longest time.

What others didn't mention here yet is that opera has this feature where you can use the #1 and #2 keys to cycle between tabs. (should enable single-key shortcuts, used to be enabled by default) This feature alone is worth using Opera.

Mouse gestures is another heaven-sent.

Opera, way ahead of it's time.

Reply Score: 1

Sticking with 10.10 until they fix the bugs
by Dave_K on Wed 6th Oct 2010 14:29 UTC
Dave_K
Member since:
2005-11-16

For me 10.10 is still by far the best version of Opera, less resource hungry and more stable than 10.5+, and in my opinion 10.10's UI is far, far better than 10.5+.

Personally I value function over form. To me being able to customise and tweak is much more important than what it looks like out of the box. I'm perfectly happy with Opera's UI looking a little old fashioned, rather than being packed with gimmicks and visual effects, if it allows me to change it to meet my preferences. Some of the graphical glitz in 10.5+ actually damages usability, like making the pop-up tab switcher transparent, giving you less readable transparent text over website text.

Some of Opera's best features and customisation options, ones that made it such a flexible and powerful browser, are still broken or bug ridden in 10.6.

For example, its replacement for 10.10's MDI interface, allowing tabs to be tiled and arranged within the browser window, still feels alpha quality at best. There are graphical glitches and performance problems, and lot of things work inconsistently, including tab order when minimising tabs and opening them in the background. In my opinion this is Opera's single best feature, and its broken state makes a big difference to my browsing.

Some configuration options break things in the browser. For example, certain panel options have caused Opera to spawn empty phantom windows since the 10.5 betas, and this still isn't fixed in the latest snapshot.

Use it without tweaking and I'm sure it's quite polished, but as a long term Opera user, with specific browsing preferences built up over more than a decade of using Opera, 10.5/6 still feels half-finished.

Reply Score: 2

PresentIt Member since:
2010-02-10

Opera 10.5 has been more stable to everyone I know than 10.10 ever was.

And as for "gimmicks and visual effects", those actually serve a real purpose. They are visual aids that make it easier to understand what's going on.

I can't see the problem you are talking about with the tab switcher either. Maybe you have a broken installation?

In fact, it sounds like your installation is broken in general, because I haven't really had any serious problems since 10.5.

Reply Score: 1

Dave_K Member since:
2005-11-16

Opera 10.5 has been more stable to everyone I know than 10.10 ever was.


I get two or three crashes a year in 10.10, despite very heavy usage. It's easily the most stable browser I've ever used.

10.5 crashes on quite a few sites, and often locks up if too many tabs are opened. Quite a few people have complained about stability issues on the Opera forums, so I'm not the only one.

And as for "gimmicks and visual effects", those actually serve a real purpose. They are visual aids that make it easier to understand what's going on.


Putting transparent text over the top of webpages (which are often full of text themselves) serves no purpose whatsoever; it just makes the menu text harder to read.

A few visual effects serve a useful purpose, most are simply gimmicks that don't significantly change usability, but some are utterly stupid examples of form over function.

In fact, it sounds like your installation is broken in general, because I haven't really had any serious problems since 10.5.


Why don't you have a look for yourself at the specific problems I mentioned? You'll see that they're nothing to do with my specific installation. There are a lot of known user interface bugs in 10.6, some of which were first reported back during the 10.5 beta tests.

Reply Score: 2

PresentIt Member since:
2010-02-10

10.5 crashes on quite a few sites, and often locks up if too many tabs are opened. Quite a few people have complained about stability issues on the Opera forums, so I'm not the only one.

Quite a few people are complaining about stability issues for every single version. 10.5 was rock solid here.

Putting transparent text over the top of webpages (which are often full of text themselves) serves no purpose whatsoever; it just makes the menu text harder to read.

Not sure what you are referring to there, I'm afraid.

A few visual effects serve a useful purpose, most are simply gimmicks that don't significantly change usability

You have not shown this to be the case.

Reply Score: 1

Dave_K Member since:
2005-11-16

Not sure what you are referring to there, I'm afraid.


I'm talking about the pop-up tab switcher, activated with ctrl+tab, or right-click+mousewheel. Making it transparent is a good example of the form over function UI design that's crept into Opera in recent versions.

Reply Score: 2

PresentIt Member since:
2010-02-10

Actually, it's a good example of making things that don't need to be in your face, be less in your face. By making it semi-transparent, you will still see more of what's behind it, while at the same time having a frame around the foreground item.

You fail.

Reply Score: 1

gehersh
Member since:
2006-01-03

I used Opera for several months, primarily because of its presumably efficiency over the low speed link, which I often have to use. Eventually I realized that that particular feature is buggy as hell, many pages aren't displayed correctly and lots of other problems. Went through several releases, but things didn't get any better at all. Ended up switching to Chrome a few months ago.

Reply Score: 1

PresentIt Member since:
2010-02-10

That's weird, because a large portion of Opera's total user base is on Turbo. So clearly it works fine for most people.

Reply Score: 1