Linked by Thom Holwerda on Thu 18th Nov 2010 16:44 UTC
PDAs, Cellphones, Wireless ...and finally it pays off for OSNews to have a Dutch editor. Yes, I knew this glorious day would one day be upon us, the day upon which the rest of the technology world would be struggling with Google Translate to decipher a Dutch article with news in it. But not for OSNews, oh no! Anyway, Steve Wozniak, Apple founder and still technically an employee, gave an interview to a Dutch newspaper (the worst we have, but still) in which he made some interesting remarks. Update: Told you it's the worst newspaper we have.
Order by: Score:
Nuuuuurhh,,, :D
by dylansmrjones on Thu 18th Nov 2010 17:15 UTC
dylansmrjones
Member since:
2005-10-02

That's so cute, believing Dutch is that hard to understand. It's really simple though. 1/3 Danish, 1/3 German, 1/3 English and 1/3 poor math and broken spelling ;)

But three pages of that does hurt the brain, though...

Reply Score: 7

RE: Nuuuuurhh,,, :D
by Thom_Holwerda on Thu 18th Nov 2010 17:18 UTC in reply to "Nuuuuurhh,,, :D"
Thom_Holwerda Member since:
2005-06-29

Isn't Danish a pastry?

Reply Score: 4

RE[2]: Nuuuuurhh,,, :D
by dylansmrjones on Thu 18th Nov 2010 17:31 UTC in reply to "RE: Nuuuuurhh,,, :D"
dylansmrjones Member since:
2005-10-02

Noo... that would be Berlin or Vienna :p (why is it that eatable stuff is named after ones neighbours?)

Reply Score: 2

RE[3]: Nuuuuurhh,,, :D
by Bill Shooter of Bul on Thu 18th Nov 2010 17:36 UTC in reply to "RE[2]: Nuuuuurhh,,, :D"
Bill Shooter of Bul Member since:
2006-07-14

Danish is a pastry in the US. Its a flaky pastry with icing and a fruit compote in the center.


Like these:

http://www.dianasbakery.com/Product.aspx?prod=Danish

Reply Score: 3

RE[4]: Nuuuuurhh,,, :D
by JAlexoid on Thu 18th Nov 2010 20:59 UTC in reply to "RE[3]: Nuuuuurhh,,, :D"
JAlexoid Member since:
2009-05-19

Well in Denmark those are called just pastry....

Reply Score: 2

RE[5]: Nuuuuurhh,,, :D
by dylansmrjones on Thu 18th Nov 2010 21:42 UTC in reply to "RE[4]: Nuuuuurhh,,, :D"
dylansmrjones Member since:
2005-10-02

Actually those definitely look like a form of Viennese-bread (or wienerbrød as we call them).

Anyway, I'd wish the Dutch language had a proper and decent orthography and a human phonology... that'd make everything much easier ;)

Reply Score: 2

RE[6]: Nuuuuurhh,,, :D
by mojmir on Fri 19th Nov 2010 09:07 UTC in reply to "RE[5]: Nuuuuurhh,,, :D"
mojmir Member since:
2009-01-05

the advantage of dutch language is that you can be clearing your throat while speaking and still be considered polite ;)

Reply Score: 1

RE[4]: Nuuuuurhh,,, :D
by NuxRo on Fri 19th Nov 2010 01:14 UTC in reply to "RE[3]: Nuuuuurhh,,, :D"
NuxRo Member since:
2010-09-25

So north americans eat danish for breakfast! Ouch! ;)

Reply Score: 1

RE[4]: Nuuuuurhh,,, :D
by nt_jerkface on Fri 19th Nov 2010 03:19 UTC in reply to "RE[3]: Nuuuuurhh,,, :D"
nt_jerkface Member since:
2009-08-26

You forgot to mention another characteristic.......delicious.

Reply Score: 2

RE[4]: Nuuuuurhh,,, :D
by aliquis on Fri 19th Nov 2010 19:08 UTC in reply to "RE[3]: Nuuuuurhh,,, :D"
aliquis Member since:
2005-07-23

In Sweden it's called weinerbröd.

"Danskt weinerbröd" is said to be weinerbröd with chocolate on top according to Wikipedia. Even though it's sometimes called that even if it doesn't have chocolate.

Supposedly weinderbröd with apple filling:
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/6/65/Glazed_app...

Hits on danska weinerbröd:
http://www.ostrasbrod.com/img/product/danskt-wienerbrod.jpg
http://tess701.blogg.se/images/2008/100_0211_15248286.jpg

Edited 2010-11-19 19:12 UTC

Reply Score: 2

RE[5]: Nuuuuurhh,,, :D
by dylansmrjones on Sun 21st Nov 2010 23:58 UTC in reply to "RE[4]: Nuuuuurhh,,, :D"
dylansmrjones Member since:
2005-10-02

Actually it is wienerbröd in Swedish. Similar to Danish and Norwegian (also in Nynorsk) wienerbrød, but with German ö ;)

Reply Score: 2

RE: Nuuuuurhh,,, :D
by zubzub on Thu 18th Nov 2010 19:21 UTC in reply to "Nuuuuurhh,,, :D"
zubzub Member since:
2010-04-16

That makes 4/3. I guess you're right about the broken math ;)

Reply Score: 3

MeeGo
by puelocesar on Thu 18th Nov 2010 17:22 UTC
puelocesar
Member since:
2008-10-30

So, can you talk a little more about Nokia being left behind?

Does he mentioned anything about MeeGo? Because anybody who criticizes Nokia, without taking Meego in consideration, just have an invalid argument for me...

Edited 2010-11-18 17:23 UTC

Reply Score: 2

RE: MeeGo
by de_wizze on Thu 18th Nov 2010 17:41 UTC in reply to "MeeGo"
de_wizze Member since:
2005-10-31

.. but isn't Meego being less emphasized in there up coming focus on keeping Symbian alive?

Reply Score: 2

RE[2]: MeeGo
by broken_symlink on Thu 18th Nov 2010 18:08 UTC in reply to "RE: MeeGo"
broken_symlink Member since:
2005-07-06

MeeGo is for high end smartphones ie, the area in which iOS and Android compete.

Symbian is for low end, ie the area in which Nokia is currently the largest mobile phone manufacturer in the world by volume.

There is a gray area in between right now, but I think once MeeGo actually gets finished and Nokia ships a phone with MeeGo on it, the distinction will become clear.

Reply Score: 3

RE[3]: MeeGo
by Bill Shooter of Bul on Thu 18th Nov 2010 18:28 UTC in reply to "RE[2]: MeeGo"
Bill Shooter of Bul Member since:
2006-07-14

And until then, they are being left behind.

Reply Score: 2

RE[4]: MeeGo - not on the N900
by jabbotts on Thu 18th Nov 2010 18:46 UTC in reply to "RE[3]: MeeGo"
jabbotts Member since:
2007-09-06

Maemo v5 (Meego version -2) is very nice on the N900 and the firmware update that just came out in the last month tightens it up nicely. Granted, the new hardware with Maemo6/Meego by default is still pending.

Reply Score: 3

Bill Shooter of Bul Member since:
2006-07-14

Its not a serious option for someone looking for a new phone & platform to develop with. The n900's specs leave much to be desired. It can't compare with Android or iphone on hardware alone. And the os is not as widely adopted, with little hope that it will reach android and iphone levels in the near future.

Reply Score: 2

RE[6]: MeeGo - not on the N900
by jabbotts on Thu 18th Nov 2010 19:20 UTC in reply to "RE[5]: MeeGo - not on the N900"
jabbotts Member since:
2007-09-06

I can agree on not as widely adopted. The software library is rich but wouldn't be hurt by more developers. The specs on the N900 I can't comment as I haven't compared them directly for some time. It stomped all over it's contemporaries but the Iphone4 and current Android hardware has had two years or so to leapfrog now.

In terms of future, I think it's less pessimistic than stated. Given Nokia's push towards QT which means your apps runs on both Symbian and Meego (ie. the entire Nokia product line).

It may come down to who's shortcomings affect less people as Meego, Android and Ios all have some pretty big shortcomings. (presently, Maemo/Meego seems to offer the most respect for the device owner)

Reply Score: 2

broken_symlink Member since:
2005-07-06

I am personally waiting for the rumored n9, which is supposedly going to be the first phone shipped with meego sometime next year.

Also, remember the n900 is more than a year old at this point. So, you really can't compare it phones of today like the iphone 4. What is a fair comparison are older phones like the iphone 3g and 3gs which it stacks up pretty well against in terms of hardware.

I really cannot wait for the n9, still using a first generation 8gb iphone with edge myself. The thing I really cannot stand anymore is the recessed headphone jack. 8gb also is not enough space. I cannot even fit my entire music collection on it, never mind any other media. Oh well, at least now thats it no longer under warranty its safe to jailbrake.

Reply Score: 3

Bill Shooter of Bul Member since:
2006-07-14

If I'm buying a phone now, because I need a phone now. I will compare it to phones available now. The mobile phone market is constantly in flux, but right now, nokia phones do not measure up.

Reply Score: 2

RE[6]: MeeGo - not on the N900
by ricegf on Fri 19th Nov 2010 13:20 UTC in reply to "RE[5]: MeeGo - not on the N900"
ricegf Member since:
2007-04-25

Its not a serious option for someone looking for a new phone & platform to develop with.


I'm sorry, you'll have to turn in your geek card now. Despite any other shortcomings, N900 is simply light-years ahead in development options.

Use QT and target all recent and future Nokia smartphones. Or use SDL for games. Or gtk+, if that's your cup of tea.

Use Python (with PyGame, PyQT, PySide, *or* PyGTK+). Or Ruby. Or Perl. Or C, C++, Java, and most other compiled languages. Heck, you can probably use FORTRAN if you must. This is not an "Objective C / Java or die" phone.

N900 is simply unmatched in development options, bar none.

Even if you mean commercial development opportunity, the Ovi store is seeing 3 million downloads a day and growing rapidly. Not the largest by any means, but quite respectable nonetheless. Quite a few developers have sold over a million copies of their apps.

And the N900's hardware still compares quite nicely to more recent Androids and iPhones, despite its remarkable age. (Since my family also has a Cliq and a Vibrant - we've compared! :-D) 32 gig flash (*plus* SD), 1 gig RAM / VM, FM transmitter, great keyboard and camera, and the kickstand still draws envious comments to this day. Sure, the 600 MHz CPU is a bit dated, but responsiveness is comparable to recent Androids.

Besides, *WE* had Angry Birds *FIRST*! ;-)

It's not the next great thing, but it's still a perfectly reasonable option - *particularly* if you want a great development platform.

Reply Score: 3

Bill Shooter of Bul Member since:
2006-07-14

Yes, I meant commercial development possibilities. One of the companies I consult for is developing mobile apps for their service. Iphone app: absolutely needed. Android: Yes, obviously. Black berry: Of course. Mameo/Meego/Ovi: Nobody knows what it is ( including the Euro branch).

I won't argue the hardware side again. You either understand why its not good, or your don't. Nothing I can say can convince die hard n900 ers otherwise.

For software dev choices, yes its awesome. But that's not enough to make up for every thing else. Even if you really like the platform, you'd be stupid to buy it now with new ( good) hardware coming out soon. I think everyone who would buy a n900 already has one. I can't think of a sensible reason for anyone to buy one right now, other than a developer to replace a broken one if money isn't a n object.

Reply Score: 2

RE: MeeGo
by Skender on Thu 18th Nov 2010 17:59 UTC in reply to "MeeGo"
Skender Member since:
2010-11-18

No, he doesn't mention MeeGo. He says Nokia was too late in adopting touch screens and is therefore still associated by consumers with physical keyboards.

Personally, I like touch screens, but I don't like to input text on them. That's why I own a Nokia phone with a touch screen and a keyboard :-)

Reply Score: 1

RE[2]: MeeGo
by Calipso on Thu 18th Nov 2010 20:08 UTC in reply to "RE: MeeGo"
Calipso Member since:
2007-03-13

touch screen + physical keyboard = win

Reply Score: 4

RE[3]: MeeGo
by bnolsen on Thu 18th Nov 2010 21:15 UTC in reply to "RE[2]: MeeGo"
bnolsen Member since:
2006-01-06

Coming from a POS flip phone without even a camera and getting an n900, I can say that the keyboard to me is pretty useless. A phone is pretty radically different from a desktop which begs that interface should also be pretty radically different. There's no good reason to even try to "PC-ize" a phone by adding a hardware keyboard.

Not long after I got my n900 an associate got a sprint 4g HTC phone. Nice thin phone, nice big display, I don't see a lot of half baked ports.

nokia's mistake here is that they are trying to leverage a traditionally deskop toolkit with a ton of pre existing desktop apps onto a mobile phone. All they are getting is a bunch of desktop apps rehashed to run on a mobile phone.

Both ios and android gained by intentionally not trying to make this bridge.

Edited 2010-11-18 21:16 UTC

Reply Score: 2

RE[4]: MeeGo
by StephenBeDoper on Fri 19th Nov 2010 16:46 UTC in reply to "RE[3]: MeeGo"
StephenBeDoper Member since:
2005-07-06

Coming from a POS flip phone without even a camera and getting an n900, I can say that the keyboard to me is pretty useless.


IMO, it mainly depends on what you're using the device for. If you're using it primarily as a portable media player/handled "internet tablet," then a hardware keyboard makes little sense. But if you're using it as a PDA, where accurate text entry is much more important, then a hardware keyboard is practically a necessity.

A phone is pretty radically different from a desktop which begs that interface should also be pretty radically different. There's no good reason to even try to "PC-ize" a phone by adding a hardware keyboard.


A keyboard implemented in software instead of hardware isn't really "radically different".

Reply Score: 2

RE: MeeGo
by viton on Fri 19th Nov 2010 12:16 UTC in reply to "MeeGo"
viton Member since:
2005-08-09

I've read a some reviews of recent nokia phones and have some friends with N900, N95 etc.
All what I see is a crap full of bugs.
I've negative experience with early nokia smartphones - it just hung twice while I walked through menues at first boot (only accum removal helps to reset after the freeze).

Edited 2010-11-19 12:20 UTC

Reply Score: 2

RE: MeeGo
by aliquis on Fri 19th Nov 2010 19:14 UTC in reply to "MeeGo"
aliquis Member since:
2005-07-23

I can criticize Nokia, even though I have stocks, and even though I know about MeeGo.

MeeGo 1.2 is suppose to have all applications, and be ready in April. N8 was very late. Symbian^3 was late.

Go figure.

MeeGo phones real soon now? Don't think so.

Also Nokia has tried to sell services with their phones earlier, has it ever worked?

Reply Score: 2

Comment by Panajev
by Panajev on Thu 18th Nov 2010 18:41 UTC
Panajev
Member since:
2008-01-09

PowerPC era all over again?

Thom, they are taking the same steps in the smartphones' world compared to Android that they take in the home computers' one compared to Windows.

They are on the ARM train on the smartphone world just like they are on the x86 train in the PC space.

Edited 2010-11-18 18:42 UTC

Reply Score: 2

rubberneck Member since:
2009-06-16

Funny how the fandroids jumped all over it though. One thing Woz states that is correct, are iOS are markedly better than Android.

Reply Score: 1

Eddyspeeder Member since:
2006-05-10

Thanks for that link!

Hence why Thom pointed out that De Telegraaf is "the worst [newspaper] we have". Case in point.

Reply Score: 2

Cymro Member since:
2005-07-07

Wozniak has downright lied about being misquoted in the past, so I'm not making any judgements on this one.

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/software/news/article.cfm?c_id=323&object...

Reply Score: 2

Boardroom troubles?
by fran on Thu 18th Nov 2010 19:09 UTC
fran
Member since:
2010-08-06

Google has a superior management system?
Is this some inside knowledge on trouble in Apple's boardroom.

Edited 2010-11-18 19:23 UTC

Reply Score: 1

RE: Boardroom troubles?
by terrakotta on Thu 18th Nov 2010 19:41 UTC in reply to "Boardroom troubles?"
terrakotta Member since:
2010-04-21

No, besturingssysteem = operating system, not management system.

Edited 2010-11-18 19:42 UTC

Reply Score: 1

Comment by ivanzinho
by ivanzinho on Thu 18th Nov 2010 19:56 UTC
ivanzinho
Member since:
2009-04-05

Looks like Thom selected the wrong article to cheer upon having a Dutch editor...

http://www.engadget.com/2010/11/18/exclusive-woz-misquoted-almost-e...

Well, at least he did warn us it was the worst newspaper in the Netherlands. ;)

Edited 2010-11-18 19:57 UTC

Reply Score: 2

meh
by helf on Thu 18th Nov 2010 20:47 UTC
helf
Member since:
2005-07-06

It would take a massive overhaul of android to make me switch to it.

Not that that matters in the grand scheme of things, but just putting that out there. :p

Reply Score: 2

A correction
by Tony Swash on Thu 18th Nov 2010 22:15 UTC
Tony Swash
Member since:
2009-08-22

Quickly following up on a Dutch interview, Steve Wozniak this afternoon said he was misquoted. The Apple co-founder said he believed virtually every app he used was "better on the iPhone." Android's main advantages were in its Voice Actions for navigation and other tasks, but Apple's acquisitions of Siri and Poly9 would solve these, he told Engadget.
He still believed from "what I'd read" that Android would still get the upper hand in market share, but Wozniak stressed that he didn't necessarily think it would be out of superiority. It could be "a lot like Windows" and gain the upper hand over Apple in share even when its competitor had a quality lead in at least the short term.

"I'm not trying to put Android down, but I'm not suggesting it's better than iOS by any stretch of the imagination," he said. "But it can get greater marketshare and still be crappy."


http://www.engadget.com/2010/11/18/exclusive-woz-misquoted-almost-e...

Reply Score: 2

RE: A correction
by Soulbender on Thu 18th Nov 2010 23:33 UTC in reply to "A correction"
Soulbender Member since:
2005-08-18

"But it can get greater marketshare and still be crappy."


Like iPod?

Reply Score: 2

RE[2]: A correction
by Chicken Blood on Mon 22nd Nov 2010 04:25 UTC in reply to "RE: A correction"
Chicken Blood Member since:
2005-12-21

No, not like that.

Reply Score: 2

Little hint
by Eddyspeeder on Thu 18th Nov 2010 22:36 UTC
Eddyspeeder
Member since:
2006-05-10

Well Thom, it seems one particular Engadget link really stands out in this comments section.

Here's a thought: if any more people find the Engadget link and paste it here, why not consider to add an update to the article's summary?

Reply Score: 2

RE: Little hint
by Thom_Holwerda on Thu 18th Nov 2010 22:46 UTC in reply to "Little hint"
Thom_Holwerda Member since:
2005-06-29

Here's a thought: I have a life.

Link added like 10 minutes before your comment.

Reply Score: 2

gehersh
Member since:
2006-01-03

not just some plain vanilla Dutch editor, but a Dutch editor who actually likes Fiona Apple!

It's like killing two birds with one stone.

Reply Score: 1

Lennie Member since:
2007-09-22

From what I've seen, I think think it is just like, it's more a combination of religion and a crush. ;-)

Reply Score: 2

We'll see..
by leos on Thu 18th Nov 2010 23:38 UTC
leos
Member since:
2005-09-21

Wozniak states that Android is the Windows of the smartphone world, and that while it still needs polishing, it will eventually be on par with the iOS.

Android will certainly be the #1 platform because there are so many options, and some of them are quite cheap (hence Walmart being the #1 retailer).

However I recently tried a top of the line Android phone with Android 2.2, and while superficially it can do all the things the iPhone can do, it's a far cry from being as easy or pleasant to use. Things like transitions are copied from the iPhone, but just not polished. Some are too slow and annoying, some are too fast and unnatural feeling.

Just comparing the interface for a simple thing like the camera. The android version just has mounds and mounds of options and adjustments. It's a cell phone, not an SLR! Classic example of adding features just because they can, and not actually thinking through what would make sense for the user.

Not that there is anything actually "wrong" with Android, it's just the difference between a polished product where everything is well thought out and optimized, and an interface that feels thrown together.
Android will gain market share for being cheap, and it will always be an awesome hackers phone for being open, but I don't think it will ever quite be on the same level of polish as the iPhone.

Reply Score: 5

RE: We'll see..
by someguy10 on Fri 19th Nov 2010 01:53 UTC in reply to "We'll see.."
someguy10 Member since:
2007-08-01

Actually, iPhone is a joke compared to Android: closed, crippled and feeling outdated with each new Android device.

Apple has already lost the sales & market share battle against Android. And this is only the beginning.

Mac Vs Windows history anyone?. Heh, "Those Who Forget History Are Doomed to Repeat It" ^^.

Reply Score: 0

RE[2]: We'll see..
by nt_jerkface on Fri 19th Nov 2010 03:26 UTC in reply to "RE: We'll see.."
nt_jerkface Member since:
2009-08-26

Feeling outdated? How can that be when the Android interface is a clone of the iphone?

Reply Score: 2

RE[3]: We'll see..
by molnarcs on Fri 19th Nov 2010 07:28 UTC in reply to "RE[2]: We'll see.."
molnarcs Member since:
2005-09-10

That's like saying that iOS interface is a clone of Symbian - have you ever had a modern Android device? The interface is different. Obviously, both being touch enabled small form factor devices, they share a number of common things. Tap an icon to launch an application. Change homescreens via swiping the screen - there aren't that many ways to do that. Similarly, once you launch the drawer, you scroll up and down via swiping on the screen, another example for sth that can't be done in too many ways. But my Nexus One interface UI has very little in common with an iPhone.


For starts, I mostly have widgets on my main homescreen, last I checked, iOS has no widget support. I have icons of the apps I use the most on the screen to the left, more widgets with different functionalities on the right. App switching is different, the scroll-down status bar (with added functionalities in cyanogenmod like quickly switching wifi, data, 2g/3g, etc.) is something the iPhone does not have. Folders, were recently added to iOS, Android had them for a while.

Anyway, the point is, that the android=iOS clone is a tired meme, and it's bullshit. One thing that sets them apart is that Android is far more configurable. Some vendors (Samsung comes to mind) chose to imitate the iOS look and feel, others have their own thing (HTC Sense is a fine example, had functionalities/features way before they were added to iOS - I had a HTC Touch HD with Sense UI previously, and that's a two year old model). Vanilla Android will look and work the way you want it to. I guess with some work you can get it to work similarly to the iOS interface, but that's a far cry from being a clone.

Edited 2010-11-19 07:30 UTC

Reply Score: 5

RE[2]: We'll see..
by viton on Fri 19th Nov 2010 12:35 UTC in reply to "RE: We'll see.."
viton Member since:
2005-08-09

Are you blind or your post is full of sarcasm?
Android so far provide inferior experience.
Android is WinMobile Next and intended for WinMobile users - they're used to slow, lagging devices. Devices for masochists.

Reply Score: 2

RE[2]: We'll see..
by apoclypse on Fri 19th Nov 2010 13:36 UTC in reply to "RE: We'll see.."
apoclypse Member since:
2007-02-17

Actually, iPhone is a joke compared to Android: closed, crippled and feeling outdated with each new Android device.

Apple has already lost the sales & market share battle against Android. And this is only the beginning.

Mac Vs Windows history anyone?. Heh, "Those Who Forget History Are Doomed to Repeat It" ^^.


Just like the Mac vs PC, Apple is still raking in more dough than most of the OEMs shipping windows, selling far less product and to top it off Apple has more influence which is surprising considering how small heir market share is. Apple doesn't care about market share, that should be clear to anyone by now, they care about money and that they have in spades. Steve said as much in the earnings call. If Apple were really about market share they would drop the price of the device to bargain bin levels, put it on every carrier, and compromise the iOS platform to allow carrier apps on the device. They haven't done that. They could have doen that when the phone was released and have a version on every network. They stuck to GSM. Android is most likely going to get all the market share, but what does that mean? None of the individual OEMs will have Apple's market share and most likely won't be making as much money as Apple and will have to cede control to the carriers of their OS update process, or allow carriers to create their own Android variant that they install on all phones with locked features and marketplaces. On top of that these OEMs are hell bent on saturating the market by releasing phone after phone every six months basically fragmenting the platform as its hard for developers to hit the maximum target and still deliver a forward thinking product. It's a worse situation than even Windows, imo. Basically the situation reminds me a lot of the distroland issue with Linux where there are subtle to significant differences between distros that affect who developers target, especially commercial developers who can't or won't just give their source away.

Reply Score: 2

RE[2]: We'll see..
by polaris20 on Fri 19th Nov 2010 21:41 UTC in reply to "RE: We'll see.."
polaris20 Member since:
2005-07-06

Actually, iPhone is a joke compared to Android: closed, crippled and feeling outdated with each new Android device.

Apple has already lost the sales & market share battle against Android. And this is only the beginning.

Mac Vs Windows history anyone?. Heh, "Those Who Forget History Are Doomed to Repeat It" ^^.


I see you're an expert at stating opinion as fact. Here's my opinion; having had a Droid since launch, a first gen iPod touch, and now a 4th gen iPT, and a Samsung Galaxy S: Android is frustrating, unrefined, and unstable compared to iOS. Additionally, the apps are generally of lower quality.

For the average user not looking to re-compile this and that, Android is only open if you're an OEM, who then apparently feels obligated to throw shitty UI after shitty UI on it in a failed attempt to brand the phone. Blur, Sense, and whatever the hell is on Samsung stuff is just unnecessary.

Furthermore, for all the crap iOS has gotten for security, Android is even worse, and Google doesn't seem to be all that interested in hurrying up and fixing the holes.

Lastly, I don't think Apple really gives two squirts about market share, for phones or computers, since they make more money than any single vendor of Android or Windows out there.

Reply Score: 2

RE[3]: We'll see..
by Shkaba on Fri 19th Nov 2010 22:31 UTC in reply to "RE[2]: We'll see.."
Shkaba Member since:
2006-06-22

iPhone is a piece of crap, and apple is a bunch of lying scumbags led by an egomaniac! That is my opinion, and I am entitled to have one. You might disagree with it which is fine as long as you don’t try to convince me that it actually “just works”, cause it doesn’t, or that it is a viable commercial development platform, cause it isn’t, or that someone else should think instead of me, cause then I might just loose it. Some idiots here equate apple’s financial results with the quality of their product/service … which would then imply that Philip Morris has also good product/services, same could be said for Pablo Escobar, and so on. Idiots! That only means that median intelligence of modern consumer is well below what used to be average and are willing to part with huge amount of money for a shiny piece of crap.

Reply Score: 2

RE[4]: We'll see..
by viton on Sat 20th Nov 2010 10:34 UTC in reply to "RE[3]: We'll see.."
viton Member since:
2005-08-09

that it actually “just works”
How can you say if you didn't even tried?
Your opinion is not based on reality.

and are willing to part with huge amount of money for a shiny piece of crap.
People pay more for better

Reply Score: 2

RE[5]: We'll see..
by Shkaba on Sun 21st Nov 2010 18:55 UTC in reply to "RE[4]: We'll see.."
Shkaba Member since:
2006-06-22

I guess you didn't read my post or didn't know how to. In either case I suppose you belong to affore mentioned group of idiots who automaticaly make assumptions that I didn't spend enough time analyzing iThingies. I did, and I stand by what I posted!

Reply Score: 2

RE[4]: We'll see..
by polaris20 on Tue 23rd Nov 2010 20:41 UTC in reply to "RE[3]: We'll see.."
polaris20 Member since:
2005-07-06

iPhone is a piece of crap, and apple is a bunch of lying scumbags led by an egomaniac! That is my opinion, and I am entitled to have one. You might disagree with it which is fine as long as you don’t try to convince me that it actually “just works”, cause it doesn’t, or that it is a viable commercial development platform, cause it isn’t, or that someone else should think instead of me, cause then I might just loose it. Some idiots here equate apple’s financial results with the quality of their product/service … which would then imply that Philip Morris has also good product/services, same could be said for Pablo Escobar, and so on. Idiots! That only means that median intelligence of modern consumer is well below what used to be average and are willing to part with huge amount of money for a shiny piece of crap.


And how many users do you support? How many Macs? IOS devices? Until it numbers in at least the double digits, your opinion remains irrelevant to me.

Reply Score: 2

The worst newspaper...
by ozonehole on Fri 19th Nov 2010 01:41 UTC
ozonehole
Member since:
2006-01-07

So De Telegraaf is the worst in The Netherlands? Hah! Just goes to show, Old Europe will never catch up with the the Anglo world. We've got Rupert Murdoch's misnamed News Corporation. If you want the latest scoop on the Hollywood celebrities, or need to know about recent sex scandals, brutal crimes, UFO sightings, miracle diets, faith healing and fortune telling, turn to the New York Post or The Sun.

http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/

Maybe Rupert will buy De Telegraaf. Then you'll know what "worst newspaper" really means.

Edited 2010-11-19 01:51 UTC

Reply Score: 5

RE: The worst newspaper...
by Lennie on Fri 19th Nov 2010 03:11 UTC in reply to "The worst newspaper..."
Lennie Member since:
2007-09-22

If this list wasn't about newspapers, I would have put Fox News on the top of that list. Their "fair and balanced" just make me sick.

Reply Score: 2

RE[2]: The worst newspaper...
by nt_jerkface on Fri 19th Nov 2010 03:45 UTC in reply to "RE: The worst newspaper..."
nt_jerkface Member since:
2009-08-26

Meh, it isn't as if CNN is a beacon of objectivity. CNN's in-depth specials are about as objective as a documentary on marijuana produced by a pot loving 16 year old.

All cable tv news outlets should be ignored. Every single one has producers that want to promote a pet agenda. I get my news from a variety of print sources and let the talking heads blab at someone else.

Reply Score: 2

RE[3]: The worst newspaper...
by Eddyspeeder on Fri 19th Nov 2010 09:11 UTC in reply to "RE[2]: The worst newspaper..."
Eddyspeeder Member since:
2006-05-10

Except that I can't remember when CNN last broadcasted actual *news*. It's become more like a "Discovery Travel for the Business World".

Reply Score: 2

RE: The worst newspaper...
by puenktchen on Fri 19th Nov 2010 14:30 UTC in reply to "The worst newspaper..."
puenktchen Member since:
2007-07-27

So De Telegraaf is the worst in The Netherlands? Hah! Just goes to show, Old Europe will never catch up with the the Anglo world.


the dutch newspaper market is strange, even de telegraaf is much better than the average german paper. and a few quality papers dominate the market, which all belong to the same company, which doesn't interfere with their political standing.

Reply Score: 2

De Telegraaf ...
by pica on Fri 19th Nov 2010 08:52 UTC
pica
Member since:
2005-07-10

... targets the folk. To do this, the editors have to simplify topics in a way that "normal people" have the impression: I grasped it.

Well, at least for me, it is hard work to break down IT related topics to a level "normal people" -- e.g. my customers -- understand it. And newspapers like De Telegraaf even target people with much less background than my customers. So, I really honor the work of these editors.

On the other side, most "IT experts" rate articles in such newspapers as oversimplified or even simply as bullshit. But these "experts", in my personal experience are not able to target "normal people".

pica

Reply Score: 1

Android mainstream
by Paradroid on Fri 19th Nov 2010 09:58 UTC
Paradroid
Member since:
2010-01-05

I think in reality the iOS is the better option for mainstream i.e. non-technical users who don't really care about this Android openness we keep hearing about. It's a simpler UI and generally easier to live with.

In comparison, Android features like the app upgrade process that makes you confirm permissions is a bit much for the average joe.

But stupidly high iPhone prices and large range of Android devices means that many mainstream users will end up with an Android machine even if is perhaps not the ideal machine for their needs.

The odd thing is that more of the tech community don't go with Android, on the dev team I work on the split is about 50/50 between android and iPhone.

Reply Score: 2

RE: Android mainstream
by viton on Fri 19th Nov 2010 12:46 UTC in reply to "Android mainstream"
viton Member since:
2005-08-09

iOS is all about perfect experience. Not features.
That's how Amiga has been designed.
I have dual-core 1Ghz android2.1 device. But it is just terrible to use and mega-slow compared to my iPod Touch.

Reply Score: 2

RE[2]: Android mainstream
by 3rdalbum on Fri 19th Nov 2010 14:55 UTC in reply to "RE: Android mainstream"
3rdalbum Member since:
2008-05-26

iOS is all about perfect experience. Not features.
That's how Amiga has been designed.
I have dual-core 1Ghz android2.1 device.


No you freaking don't, they haven't been released yet.

My Android phone has a 1 GHz processor and it's rarely laggy. Some web pages can make the keyboard lag, but funnily enough not even Flash causes it.

Where the Android phones really come into their own is that you can actually use them as a phone because you can usually get some sort of cellular signal. The iPhone might be a nice device but it's a terrible phone - American iPhone owners criticise AT&T for their "poor signal strength" but if you could buy iPhones on multiple carriers (like you can in most countries) you'd quickly see that the iPhone itself is terrible at actually picking up and maintaining a connection.

Now, my old Nokia E63 - *that* was an awesome phone. Boring as hell, runs on Symbian, very poor selection of apps; but you can go into the toilet in the basement of a high-rise and still make calls.

I'd love it if Nokia could release an Android phone, but when my current phone becomes fully obsolete I'll get one of Nokia's Meego-based mobiles. Because I like being contactable even when inside an EM-noisy shopping center.

Reply Score: 3

RE[3]: Android mainstream
by viton on Fri 19th Nov 2010 20:01 UTC in reply to "RE[2]: Android mainstream"
viton Member since:
2005-08-09

No you freaking don't, they haven't been released yet.
I think, I know better what I have and what's not.
Toshiba AC100 was released a while ago.

My Android phone has a 1 GHz processor and it's rarely laggy.
"rarely" is enough for me. Sorry. I didn't ever experienced it on iPod Touch 4.

The iPhone might be a nice device but it's a terrible phone
iPhone4 has a very sensitive antenna. My friends has no complains about it.

Reply Score: 2

RE: Android mainstream
by Quake on Fri 19th Nov 2010 14:06 UTC in reply to "Android mainstream"
Quake Member since:
2005-10-14

Android is exactly like a PC OS (Windows, Linux), non-optimised in order to work with any component the phone manufacturers use.

Example: according to the reviews, theiPhone has an 800 Mhz CPU while the latest android phones have 1 Ghz. Even with the extra juice, the latter still experiences slowdowns from time to time.

Reply Score: 1

Cheap shot at Symbian
by spiderman on Fri 19th Nov 2010 10:15 UTC
spiderman
Member since:
2008-10-23

This man is preaching for his own church. Of course he tells his OS is the best. How could that be different? This is his job.
Symbian is old tech. It still has multitasking, flash and mass storage USB. The future is singletasking and iTunes.

Reply Score: 3

RE: Cheap shot at Symbian
by viton on Fri 19th Nov 2010 13:01 UTC in reply to "Cheap shot at Symbian"
viton Member since:
2005-08-09

The future is singletasking and iTunes.

FYI iOS does multitasking.
iTunes, yes it is a future. I was like you some times ago. Until I tried it actually =)

Reply Score: 2

RE[2]: Cheap shot at Symbian
by spiderman on Fri 19th Nov 2010 14:16 UTC in reply to "RE: Cheap shot at Symbian"
spiderman Member since:
2008-10-23

I feel sorry for you if you think iOS has multitasking. Obviously you have never tried any real multitasking on a mobile phone. Doing a few things in the background is not multitasking. As for iTunes, that is a joke, right? Have used it and don't know anyone who likes it. You are the first one if that was not a joke.

Reply Score: 2

RE[3]: Cheap shot at Symbian
by apoclypse on Fri 19th Nov 2010 15:00 UTC in reply to "RE[2]: Cheap shot at Symbian"
apoclypse Member since:
2007-02-17

I feel sorry for you if think that it really matters or that it makes a difference to the user. As long as it seems like multitasking then it is multitasking. It doesn't matter if its technically correct or not.

Reply Score: 2

RE[4]: Cheap shot at Symbian
by spiderman on Fri 19th Nov 2010 15:05 UTC in reply to "RE[3]: Cheap shot at Symbian"
spiderman Member since:
2008-10-23

It doesn't even seem like multitasking unfortunately and that makes a huge difference to the user. Have you tried Maemo, WebOS or the latest Symbian^3? THAT is multitasking. It looks like you haven't tried real multitasking yet since you think it does not make any difference and that iOS has it. You should try it on WebOS, Symbian or Maemo and see what you miss.

Edited 2010-11-19 15:12 UTC

Reply Score: 2

RE[5]: Cheap shot at Symbian
by viton on Fri 19th Nov 2010 20:13 UTC in reply to "RE[4]: Cheap shot at Symbian"
viton Member since:
2005-08-09

So what do I miss actually? iOS cover 100% of my device usage patterns.

Reply Score: 2

RE[6]: Cheap shot at Symbian
by spiderman on Fri 19th Nov 2010 23:44 UTC in reply to "RE[5]: Cheap shot at Symbian"
spiderman Member since:
2008-10-23

So what do I miss actually? iOS cover 100% of my device usage patterns.

Actually before the phones existed, your usage pattern was covered by snail mail. Of course iOS covers all your needs because your needs are defined by the device you use. Basically they create the needs for you and you adapt your usage pattern to the device.
If you had used real multitasking you would integrate that in your usage pattern and it would be another need you would have. Once you have used it, you can't go back. Try it on WebOS, Symbian or Maemo and see what I am talking about. You open a web site that is slow while checking emails while playing music while video chatting on skype, moving quickly from app to app. When you have used that, you feel singletasking boring as hell, waiting in front of your browser for youtube to start.

Reply Score: 2

RE[7]: Cheap shot at Symbian
by viton on Sat 20th Nov 2010 11:48 UTC in reply to "RE[6]: Cheap shot at Symbian"
viton Member since:
2005-08-09

You open a web site that is slow while checking emails while playing music while video chatting on skype, moving quickly from app to app.

So what is the problem?
http://www.apple.com/iphone/features/multitasking.html

I expected to see something spectacular.
Not to how to save 2 seconds while waiting for website to load. I prefer to be sure what apps will not crash inexpectedly because of memory allocation failure or affect the smoothness of foreground app scrolling.
LOL, while writing this message my Android system freezed when I pressed submit button, forcing me to retype the entire post. Wish them burn in hell.

I didn't tried videochatting yet, but I hardly see myself playing music and videochatting at the same time.
If web site loading is slow, why should I consume extra bandwidth to check emails or videochatting(!) ?
Web site loading on WIFI typically takes only a few seconds.
Maybe I can switch apps faster, but there is no advantage.
Just tap "home" twice to see a list of running programs and select or kill them as you wish.
How much faster you can do it in Maemo?

waiting in front of your browser for youtube to start.
Ohh! 2 seconds? Not a big deal.

Edited 2010-11-20 11:53 UTC

Reply Score: 2

RE[3]: Cheap shot at Symbian
by viton on Fri 19th Nov 2010 20:05 UTC in reply to "RE[2]: Cheap shot at Symbian"
viton Member since:
2005-08-09

I feel sorry for you if you think iOS has multitasking
Ok. Here I leave you in your imaginary world.

Reply Score: 2

Comment by Jason Bourne
by Jason Bourne on Fri 19th Nov 2010 13:57 UTC
Jason Bourne
Member since:
2007-06-02

Oh Tom, again.... no...

(But OK, we all slip away sometimes).

Reply Score: 2