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Isn't Danish a pastry?

Noo... that would be Berlin or Vienna :p (why is it that eatable stuff is named after ones neighbours?)

Danish is a pastry in the US. Its a flaky pastry with icing and a fruit compote in the center.


Like these:

http://www.dianasbakery.com/Product.aspx?prod=Danish

Well in Denmark those are called just pastry....

Actually those definitely look like a form of Viennese-bread (or wienerbrød as we call them).

Anyway, I'd wish the Dutch language had a proper and decent orthography and a human phonology... that'd make everything much easier

the advantage of dutch language is that you can be clearing your throat while speaking and still be considered polite

So north americans eat danish for breakfast! Ouch!

You forgot to mention another characteristic.......delicious.

In Sweden it's called weinerbröd.

"Danskt weinerbröd" is said to be weinerbröd with chocolate on top according to Wikipedia. Even though it's sometimes called that even if it doesn't have chocolate.

Supposedly weinderbröd with apple filling:
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/6/65/Glazed_app...

Hits on danska weinerbröd:
http://www.ostrasbrod.com/img/product/danskt-wienerbrod.jpg
http://tess701.blogg.se/images/2008/100_0211_15248286.jpg

Edited 2010-11-19 19:12 UTC

Actually it is wienerbröd in Swedish. Similar to Danish and Norwegian (also in Nynorsk) wienerbrød, but with German ö

That makes 4/3. I guess you're right about the broken math

.. but isn't Meego being less emphasized in there up coming focus on keeping Symbian alive?

MeeGo is for high end smartphones ie, the area in which iOS and Android compete.

Symbian is for low end, ie the area in which Nokia is currently the largest mobile phone manufacturer in the world by volume.

There is a gray area in between right now, but I think once MeeGo actually gets finished and Nokia ships a phone with MeeGo on it, the distinction will become clear.

And until then, they are being left behind.

Maemo v5 (Meego version -2) is very nice on the N900 and the firmware update that just came out in the last month tightens it up nicely. Granted, the new hardware with Maemo6/Meego by default is still pending.

Its not a serious option for someone looking for a new phone & platform to develop with. The n900's specs leave much to be desired. It can't compare with Android or iphone on hardware alone. And the os is not as widely adopted, with little hope that it will reach android and iphone levels in the near future.

I can agree on not as widely adopted. The software library is rich but wouldn't be hurt by more developers. The specs on the N900 I can't comment as I haven't compared them directly for some time. It stomped all over it's contemporaries but the Iphone4 and current Android hardware has had two years or so to leapfrog now.

In terms of future, I think it's less pessimistic than stated. Given Nokia's push towards QT which means your apps runs on both Symbian and Meego (ie. the entire Nokia product line).

It may come down to who's shortcomings affect less people as Meego, Android and Ios all have some pretty big shortcomings. (presently, Maemo/Meego seems to offer the most respect for the device owner)

I am personally waiting for the rumored n9, which is supposedly going to be the first phone shipped with meego sometime next year.

Also, remember the n900 is more than a year old at this point. So, you really can't compare it phones of today like the iphone 4. What is a fair comparison are older phones like the iphone 3g and 3gs which it stacks up pretty well against in terms of hardware.

I really cannot wait for the n9, still using a first generation 8gb iphone with edge myself. The thing I really cannot stand anymore is the recessed headphone jack. 8gb also is not enough space. I cannot even fit my entire music collection on it, never mind any other media. Oh well, at least now thats it no longer under warranty its safe to jailbrake.

If I'm buying a phone now, because I need a phone now. I will compare it to phones available now. The mobile phone market is constantly in flux, but right now, nokia phones do not measure up.

I'm sorry, you'll have to turn in your geek card now. Despite any other shortcomings, N900 is simply light-years ahead in development options.

Use QT and target all recent and future Nokia smartphones. Or use SDL for games. Or gtk+, if that's your cup of tea.

Use Python (with PyGame, PyQT, PySide, *or* PyGTK+). Or Ruby. Or Perl. Or C, C++, Java, and most other compiled languages. Heck, you can probably use FORTRAN if you must. This is not an "Objective C / Java or die" phone.

N900 is simply unmatched in development options, bar none.

Even if you mean commercial development opportunity, the Ovi store is seeing 3 million downloads a day and growing rapidly. Not the largest by any means, but quite respectable nonetheless. Quite a few developers have sold over a million copies of their apps.

And the N900's hardware still compares quite nicely to more recent Androids and iPhones, despite its remarkable age. (Since my family also has a Cliq and a Vibrant - we've compared! :-D) 32 gig flash (*plus* SD), 1 gig RAM / VM, FM transmitter, great keyboard and camera, and the kickstand still draws envious comments to this day. Sure, the 600 MHz CPU is a bit dated, but responsiveness is comparable to recent Androids.

Besides, *WE* had Angry Birds *FIRST*! ;-)

It's not the next great thing, but it's still a perfectly reasonable option - *particularly* if you want a great development platform.

Yes, I meant commercial development possibilities. One of the companies I consult for is developing mobile apps for their service. Iphone app: absolutely needed. Android: Yes, obviously. Black berry: Of course. Mameo/Meego/Ovi: Nobody knows what it is ( including the Euro branch).

I won't argue the hardware side again. You either understand why its not good, or your don't. Nothing I can say can convince die hard n900 ers otherwise.

For software dev choices, yes its awesome. But that's not enough to make up for every thing else. Even if you really like the platform, you'd be stupid to buy it now with new ( good) hardware coming out soon. I think everyone who would buy a n900 already has one. I can't think of a sensible reason for anyone to buy one right now, other than a developer to replace a broken one if money isn't a n object.

No, he doesn't mention MeeGo. He says Nokia was too late in adopting touch screens and is therefore still associated by consumers with physical keyboards.

Personally, I like touch screens, but I don't like to input text on them. That's why I own a Nokia phone with a touch screen and a keyboard :-)

touch screen + physical keyboard = win

Coming from a POS flip phone without even a camera and getting an n900, I can say that the keyboard to me is pretty useless. A phone is pretty radically different from a desktop which begs that interface should also be pretty radically different. There's no good reason to even try to "PC-ize" a phone by adding a hardware keyboard.

Not long after I got my n900 an associate got a sprint 4g HTC phone. Nice thin phone, nice big display, I don't see a lot of half baked ports.

nokia's mistake here is that they are trying to leverage a traditionally deskop toolkit with a ton of pre existing desktop apps onto a mobile phone. All they are getting is a bunch of desktop apps rehashed to run on a mobile phone.

Both ios and android gained by intentionally not trying to make this bridge.

Edited 2010-11-18 21:16 UTC

IMO, it mainly depends on what you're using the device for. If you're using it primarily as a portable media player/handled "internet tablet," then a hardware keyboard makes little sense. But if you're using it as a PDA, where accurate text entry is much more important, then a hardware keyboard is practically a necessity.



A keyboard implemented in software instead of hardware isn't really "radically different".

I've read a some reviews of recent nokia phones and have some friends with N900, N95 etc.
All what I see is a crap full of bugs.
I've negative experience with early nokia smartphones - it just hung twice while I walked through menues at first boot (only accum removal helps to reset after the freeze).

Edited 2010-11-19 12:20 UTC

I can criticize Nokia, even though I have stocks, and even though I know about MeeGo.

MeeGo 1.2 is suppose to have all applications, and be ready in April. N8 was very late. Symbian^3 was late.

Go figure.

MeeGo phones real soon now? Don't think so.

Also Nokia has tried to sell services with their phones earlier, has it ever worked?

Funny how the fandroids jumped all over it though. One thing Woz states that is correct, are iOS are markedly better than Android.

Thanks for that link!

Hence why Thom pointed out that De Telegraaf is "the worst [newspaper] we have". Case in point.

Wozniak has downright lied about being misquoted in the past, so I'm not making any judgements on this one.

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/software/news/article.cfm?c_id=323&object...

No, besturingssysteem = operating system, not management system.

Edited 2010-11-18 19:42 UTC

Like iPod?

No, not like that.

Here's a thought: I have a life.

Link added like 10 minutes before your comment.

From what I've seen, I think think it is just like, it's more a combination of religion and a crush. ;-)

Actually, iPhone is a joke compared to Android: closed, crippled and feeling outdated with each new Android device.

Apple has already lost the sales & market share battle against Android. And this is only the beginning.

Mac Vs Windows history anyone?. Heh, "Those Who Forget History Are Doomed to Repeat It" ^^.

Feeling outdated? How can that be when the Android interface is a clone of the iphone?

That's like saying that iOS interface is a clone of Symbian - have you ever had a modern Android device? The interface is different. Obviously, both being touch enabled small form factor devices, they share a number of common things. Tap an icon to launch an application. Change homescreens via swiping the screen - there aren't that many ways to do that. Similarly, once you launch the drawer, you scroll up and down via swiping on the screen, another example for sth that can't be done in too many ways. But my Nexus One interface UI has very little in common with an iPhone.


For starts, I mostly have widgets on my main homescreen, last I checked, iOS has no widget support. I have icons of the apps I use the most on the screen to the left, more widgets with different functionalities on the right. App switching is different, the scroll-down status bar (with added functionalities in cyanogenmod like quickly switching wifi, data, 2g/3g, etc.) is something the iPhone does not have. Folders, were recently added to iOS, Android had them for a while.

Anyway, the point is, that the android=iOS clone is a tired meme, and it's bullshit. One thing that sets them apart is that Android is far more configurable. Some vendors (Samsung comes to mind) chose to imitate the iOS look and feel, others have their own thing (HTC Sense is a fine example, had functionalities/features way before they were added to iOS - I had a HTC Touch HD with Sense UI previously, and that's a two year old model). Vanilla Android will look and work the way you want it to. I guess with some work you can get it to work similarly to the iOS interface, but that's a far cry from being a clone.

Edited 2010-11-19 07:30 UTC

Are you blind or your post is full of sarcasm?
Android so far provide inferior experience.
Android is WinMobile Next and intended for WinMobile users - they're used to slow, lagging devices. Devices for masochists.

Just like the Mac vs PC, Apple is still raking in more dough than most of the OEMs shipping windows, selling far less product and to top it off Apple has more influence which is surprising considering how small heir market share is. Apple doesn't care about market share, that should be clear to anyone by now, they care about money and that they have in spades. Steve said as much in the earnings call. If Apple were really about market share they would drop the price of the device to bargain bin levels, put it on every carrier, and compromise the iOS platform to allow carrier apps on the device. They haven't done that. They could have doen that when the phone was released and have a version on every network. They stuck to GSM. Android is most likely going to get all the market share, but what does that mean? None of the individual OEMs will have Apple's market share and most likely won't be making as much money as Apple and will have to cede control to the carriers of their OS update process, or allow carriers to create their own Android variant that they install on all phones with locked features and marketplaces. On top of that these OEMs are hell bent on saturating the market by releasing phone after phone every six months basically fragmenting the platform as its hard for developers to hit the maximum target and still deliver a forward thinking product. It's a worse situation than even Windows, imo. Basically the situation reminds me a lot of the distroland issue with Linux where there are subtle to significant differences between distros that affect who developers target, especially commercial developers who can't or won't just give their source away.

I see you're an expert at stating opinion as fact. Here's my opinion; having had a Droid since launch, a first gen iPod touch, and now a 4th gen iPT, and a Samsung Galaxy S: Android is frustrating, unrefined, and unstable compared to iOS. Additionally, the apps are generally of lower quality.

For the average user not looking to re-compile this and that, Android is only open if you're an OEM, who then apparently feels obligated to throw shitty UI after shitty UI on it in a failed attempt to brand the phone. Blur, Sense, and whatever the hell is on Samsung stuff is just unnecessary.

Furthermore, for all the crap iOS has gotten for security, Android is even worse, and Google doesn't seem to be all that interested in hurrying up and fixing the holes.

Lastly, I don't think Apple really gives two squirts about market share, for phones or computers, since they make more money than any single vendor of Android or Windows out there.

iPhone is a piece of crap, and apple is a bunch of lying scumbags led by an egomaniac! That is my opinion, and I am entitled to have one. You might disagree with it which is fine as long as you don’t try to convince me that it actually “just works”, cause it doesn’t, or that it is a viable commercial development platform, cause it isn’t, or that someone else should think instead of me, cause then I might just loose it. Some idiots here equate apple’s financial results with the quality of their product/service … which would then imply that Philip Morris has also good product/services, same could be said for Pablo Escobar, and so on. Idiots! That only means that median intelligence of modern consumer is well below what used to be average and are willing to part with huge amount of money for a shiny piece of crap.

that it actually “just works”
How can you say if you didn't even tried?
Your opinion is not based on reality.

and are willing to part with huge amount of money for a shiny piece of crap.
People pay more for better

I guess you didn't read my post or didn't know how to. In either case I suppose you belong to affore mentioned group of idiots who automaticaly make assumptions that I didn't spend enough time analyzing iThingies. I did, and I stand by what I posted!

And how many users do you support? How many Macs? IOS devices? Until it numbers in at least the double digits, your opinion remains irrelevant to me.

If this list wasn't about newspapers, I would have put Fox News on the top of that list. Their "fair and balanced" just make me sick.

Meh, it isn't as if CNN is a beacon of objectivity. CNN's in-depth specials are about as objective as a documentary on marijuana produced by a pot loving 16 year old.

All cable tv news outlets should be ignored. Every single one has producers that want to promote a pet agenda. I get my news from a variety of print sources and let the talking heads blab at someone else.

Except that I can't remember when CNN last broadcasted actual *news*. It's become more like a "Discovery Travel for the Business World".

the dutch newspaper market is strange, even de telegraaf is much better than the average german paper. and a few quality papers dominate the market, which all belong to the same company, which doesn't interfere with their political standing.

iOS is all about perfect experience. Not features.
That's how Amiga has been designed.
I have dual-core 1Ghz android2.1 device. But it is just terrible to use and mega-slow compared to my iPod Touch.

No you freaking don't, they haven't been released yet.

My Android phone has a 1 GHz processor and it's rarely laggy. Some web pages can make the keyboard lag, but funnily enough not even Flash causes it.

Where the Android phones really come into their own is that you can actually use them as a phone because you can usually get some sort of cellular signal. The iPhone might be a nice device but it's a terrible phone - American iPhone owners criticise AT&T for their "poor signal strength" but if you could buy iPhones on multiple carriers (like you can in most countries) you'd quickly see that the iPhone itself is terrible at actually picking up and maintaining a connection.

Now, my old Nokia E63 - *that* was an awesome phone. Boring as hell, runs on Symbian, very poor selection of apps; but you can go into the toilet in the basement of a high-rise and still make calls.

I'd love it if Nokia could release an Android phone, but when my current phone becomes fully obsolete I'll get one of Nokia's Meego-based mobiles. Because I like being contactable even when inside an EM-noisy shopping center.

No you freaking don't, they haven't been released yet.
I think, I know better what I have and what's not.
Toshiba AC100 was released a while ago.

My Android phone has a 1 GHz processor and it's rarely laggy.
"rarely" is enough for me. Sorry. I didn't ever experienced it on iPod Touch 4.

The iPhone might be a nice device but it's a terrible phone
iPhone4 has a very sensitive antenna. My friends has no complains about it.

Android is exactly like a PC OS (Windows, Linux), non-optimised in order to work with any component the phone manufacturers use.

Example: according to the reviews, theiPhone has an 800 Mhz CPU while the latest android phones have 1 Ghz. Even with the extra juice, the latter still experiences slowdowns from time to time.

FYI iOS does multitasking.
iTunes, yes it is a future. I was like you some times ago. Until I tried it actually =)

I feel sorry for you if you think iOS has multitasking. Obviously you have never tried any real multitasking on a mobile phone. Doing a few things in the background is not multitasking. As for iTunes, that is a joke, right? Have used it and don't know anyone who likes it. You are the first one if that was not a joke.

I feel sorry for you if think that it really matters or that it makes a difference to the user. As long as it seems like multitasking then it is multitasking. It doesn't matter if its technically correct or not.

It doesn't even seem like multitasking unfortunately and that makes a huge difference to the user. Have you tried Maemo, WebOS or the latest Symbian^3? THAT is multitasking. It looks like you haven't tried real multitasking yet since you think it does not make any difference and that iOS has it. You should try it on WebOS, Symbian or Maemo and see what you miss.

Edited 2010-11-19 15:12 UTC

So what do I miss actually? iOS cover 100% of my device usage patterns.

Actually before the phones existed, your usage pattern was covered by snail mail. Of course iOS covers all your needs because your needs are defined by the device you use. Basically they create the needs for you and you adapt your usage pattern to the device.
If you had used real multitasking you would integrate that in your usage pattern and it would be another need you would have. Once you have used it, you can't go back. Try it on WebOS, Symbian or Maemo and see what I am talking about. You open a web site that is slow while checking emails while playing music while video chatting on skype, moving quickly from app to app. When you have used that, you feel singletasking boring as hell, waiting in front of your browser for youtube to start.

You open a web site that is slow while checking emails while playing music while video chatting on skype, moving quickly from app to app.

So what is the problem?
http://www.apple.com/iphone/features/multitasking.html

I expected to see something spectacular.
Not to how to save 2 seconds while waiting for website to load. I prefer to be sure what apps will not crash inexpectedly because of memory allocation failure or affect the smoothness of foreground app scrolling.
LOL, while writing this message my Android system freezed when I pressed submit button, forcing me to retype the entire post. Wish them burn in hell.

I didn't tried videochatting yet, but I hardly see myself playing music and videochatting at the same time.
If web site loading is slow, why should I consume extra bandwidth to check emails or videochatting(!) ?
Web site loading on WIFI typically takes only a few seconds.
Maybe I can switch apps faster, but there is no advantage.
Just tap "home" twice to see a list of running programs and select or kill them as you wish.
How much faster you can do it in Maemo?

waiting in front of your browser for youtube to start.
Ohh! 2 seconds? Not a big deal.

Edited 2010-11-20 11:53 UTC

I feel sorry for you if you think iOS has multitasking
Ok. Here I leave you in your imaginary world.