Linked by Thom Holwerda on Tue 7th Dec 2010 23:27 UTC
Games Sometimes, it's good to reminisce. To look back upon what came before us, in order to better understand what lies ahead. Last week, I bought a piece of computing history I missed out on, a piece I've desperately been wanting to have for a long time now. I bought what is most likely the best selling computer of all time.
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Comment by neticspace
by neticspace on Tue 7th Dec 2010 23:31 UTC
neticspace
Member since:
2009-06-09

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Linux_for_PlayStation_2

It could install Linux albeit the lack of integrity.

Reply Score: 2

RE: Comment by neticspace
by Thom_Holwerda on Tue 7th Dec 2010 23:33 UTC in reply to "Comment by neticspace"
Thom_Holwerda Member since:
2005-06-29

My model is a SCPH-77004, which sadly doesn't support running Linux. In fact, it can't even handle a hard drive.

Reply Score: 2

RE[2]: Comment by neticspace
by yoshi314@gmail.com on Wed 8th Dec 2010 09:58 UTC in reply to "RE: Comment by neticspace"
yoshi314@gmail.com Member since:
2009-12-14

it does, if modded - i am talking both about linux and the hard drive.

there is a homebrew linux kernel loader for ps2, and few early ps2 slim models (like yours) can be fitted with sata or pata adapter.

Edited 2010-12-08 10:00 UTC

Reply Score: 1

hah
by deathshadow on Tue 7th Dec 2010 23:50 UTC
deathshadow
Member since:
2005-07-12

.. and here I was expecting another article about the Apple II -- which only sold giant numbers because they milked one design for a decade and a half while everyone else actually introduced newer/better models and discontinued their old ones.

Kind of refreshing to see someone point at something else... Though I wonder if the PSX actually outsold the PS2. Just like the three the two was ridiculed for it's price at release, while the original Playstation was very competitively priced in the world of N64 and Dreamcast.

Reply Score: 3

RE: hah spectrum
by pd1011 on Wed 8th Dec 2010 00:43 UTC in reply to "hah"
pd1011 Member since:
2010-12-08
RE: hah
by KrustyVader on Wed 8th Dec 2010 02:15 UTC in reply to "hah"
KrustyVader Member since:
2006-10-28

"...expecting another article about the Apple II"?!

I was expecting another article about Commodore 64.

Reply Score: 6

RE[2]: hah
by tylerdurden on Wed 8th Dec 2010 04:45 UTC in reply to "RE: hah"
tylerdurden Member since:
2009-03-17

;-)

Edited 2010-12-08 04:45 UTC

Reply Score: 1

Comment by jleahy
by jleahy on Tue 7th Dec 2010 23:56 UTC
jleahy
Member since:
2010-05-19

There is only one game to play for the PS2, Grand Theft Auto. That's got to be on your list.

Reply Score: 1

RE: Comment by jleahy
by WorknMan on Wed 8th Dec 2010 00:27 UTC in reply to "Comment by jleahy"
WorknMan Member since:
2005-11-13

There is only one game to play for the PS2, Grand Theft Auto. That's got to be on your list.


Yeah, I think for the most part, last gen gaming is a washout. Not that there weren't some good games, but since most games now are just a rehash of old shit with a new coat of paint, whatever you played last gen on the Xbox/PS2, you can probably find a better/prettier version of it on the 360 or PS3.

Edited 2010-12-08 00:28 UTC

Reply Score: 1

RE: Comment by jleahy
by thavith_osn on Wed 8th Dec 2010 02:05 UTC in reply to "Comment by jleahy"
thavith_osn Member since:
2005-07-11

I loved the Apple ][. I bought an Apple//c in 1984. I had the choice between the then very new Mac (no HD / 128k) or the Apple //e or //c. I guess I could have bought an early PC, but I didn't like them then, and must admit I still struggle to like them now - LOL...

Loderunner, Wizadry and Ultima III were the killer apps for me :-)

Having said that, I thought the C64 was the biggest selling computer. I have no idea of numbers, but I know it sold a lot.

BTW, if I'd know the Amiga was coming out in 85, I would have waited and bought that instead, or a Mac with a HD.

I sometimes wish computers were still simple with that "magic" they used to have, but you know, I'd miss the screen resolutions we have now, the number of colours, the speed, the INTERNET, movies, DVD's, massive HD's, RAM etc... The old days weren't really as good as we imagine, I suspect we will be calling 2010 the good ol' days soon enough :-)

Oh, I loved my PlayStation 1 many years ago, that is the one and only gaming console I ever owned, can't say I'm into games, though I was looking at the PS3 when they first came out...

Reply Score: 2

No unicorn stickers...
by Nico57 on Wed 8th Dec 2010 00:11 UTC
Nico57
Member since:
2006-12-18

...yet?

Reply Score: 3

RE: No unicorn stickers...
by gloucestershrubhill on Wed 8th Dec 2010 01:49 UTC in reply to "No unicorn stickers..."
gloucestershrubhill Member since:
2010-08-10

I was thinking maybe it actually runs on Unicorns.

Reply Score: 2

A piece of computing history
by AlexandreAM on Wed 8th Dec 2010 00:26 UTC
AlexandreAM
Member since:
2006-02-06

You know you're a cheap bastard when your main gaming unit is referred to as a "piece of computing history"!

Joking aside, I'm not much of a gamer, so I don't know if my opinions count on this one, but the Lego <Whatever> Series are pretty damn funny and entertaining. Specially Indiana Jones. Katamari Damaci is a very nice, albeit odd, one.

If you don't mind the gore and sadism and wants something even faster paced than Diablo, God Of War is a helluva game, although in my case it got boring in the middle of it and I gave up after getting to at least half the game.

Reply Score: 2

Comment by fran
by fran on Wed 8th Dec 2010 00:32 UTC
fran
Member since:
2010-08-06

5 Years ago, and I was bedridden for two months after an accident. The PS2 really made those times alot tolerable.

THe games i played: Need for Speed Underground that I completed with an insanely souped up PEUGEOT 206

The other was the war game "Black". Graphics very good for ps2 and the storyline not an afterthought. Difficult and a real challende finish.

Now I'm waiting for the sequeal to Oblivion Elder Srolls IV.

Reply Score: 1

is...what?
by DHofmann on Wed 8th Dec 2010 00:52 UTC
DHofmann
Member since:
2005-08-19

This article doesn't make much sense if you read it with images turned off.

Reply Score: 1

Keyboard and Mouse
by dbolgheroni on Wed 8th Dec 2010 01:01 UTC
dbolgheroni
Member since:
2007-01-18

One of the reasons I didn't buy a videogame after a long time was that, after I came to know FPS games on PC, with keyboard and mouse, it's hard to come back to videogames to play this kind of game with a... controller.

Recently, I've been looking for an Xbox 360 with some kind of adapter to plug in a keyboard and mouse, like Xfps 360 (http://www.amazon.com/Xfps-360-Keyboard-Mouse-Adapter-Xbox/dp/B0010...), but I don't know how is the playability of this in comparison with a PC.

It's really boring to get a game and have to solve all kind of problems it may have, like download new video drivers, setting configurations to get a good FPS rate, download patches, etc, etc, etc. And since most good games are released to every plataform, I'm really considering getting a videogame with this kind of accessory.

Reply Score: 1

RE: Keyboard and Mouse
by Morgan on Wed 8th Dec 2010 09:11 UTC in reply to "Keyboard and Mouse"
Morgan Member since:
2005-06-29

That's one of the things I absolutely LOVED about the Dreamcast: Keyboard and mouse as standard accessories. Many a round of Unreal Tournament and Q3A were played on that beast.

Sadly, my wife is keeping it in the divorce, though actually I'm happy my (former) stepchildren will get to have it. They love playing it as much as I did.

Dammit, now I'm going to end up trolling eBay for another Dreamcast all morning. And I don't even own a TV anymore. VGA cable added to the trolling list...

Reply Score: 2

RE[2]: Keyboard and Mouse
by Thom_Holwerda on Wed 8th Dec 2010 09:13 UTC in reply to "RE: Keyboard and Mouse"
Thom_Holwerda Member since:
2005-06-29

Yes, a Dreamcast is on my wish-list as well. Little harder to come by, though.

Reply Score: 1

RE[3]: Keyboard and Mouse
by Morgan on Wed 8th Dec 2010 09:40 UTC in reply to "RE[2]: Keyboard and Mouse"
Morgan Member since:
2005-06-29

The last I checked, they are still available on amazon.com both new and used, though I'd be suspicious of any "new" listings. Prices look pretty good, and I may end up spending any Christmas money I get on one.

Though, I'd have to replace the games that left with my old system too, specifically Soul Calibur (took me two years to find the one I had), Phantasy Star Online, Rayman 2, Time Stalkers, and Evolution: Far Off Promise.

Sigh.

Reply Score: 2

RE[3]: Keyboard and Mouse
by Kroc on Wed 8th Dec 2010 20:59 UTC in reply to "RE[2]: Keyboard and Mouse"
Kroc Member since:
2005-11-10

Worth it for Shenmue alone.

Reply Score: 2

RE[4]: Keyboard and Mouse
by Thom_Holwerda on Wed 8th Dec 2010 21:58 UTC in reply to "RE[3]: Keyboard and Mouse"
Thom_Holwerda Member since:
2005-06-29

Shenmue introduced quick-time events. Shenmue must be hanged for that treason.

Reply Score: 1

RE[3]: Keyboard and Mouse
by Beta on Sun 12th Dec 2010 17:27 UTC in reply to "RE[2]: Keyboard and Mouse"
Beta Member since:
2005-07-06

I have a Dreamcast that i’m umming and arring about selling. Even has a keyboard, mouse, LAN connector..

Will poke you again if I decide I want to part with the beast ;)

Reply Score: 2

RE: Keyboard and Mouse
by zima on Sun 12th Dec 2010 13:40 UTC in reply to "Keyboard and Mouse"
zima Member since:
2005-07-06

What you refer to is mere a small subset of not only "games", but also "FPS games" - the "pointing at stuff" game mechanics...

There are other types just among FPS, for example Descent style. Which is fabulous with Dualshock-like controller. Sadly, a type largely forgotten - probably also because mouse+WASD doesn't work for such FPS very well.

Reply Score: 1

Some of the best
by darkwyrm on Wed 8th Dec 2010 01:26 UTC
darkwyrm
Member since:
2006-03-15

I don't consider the PS2 to be memories because I'm too cheap to bother with an Xbox 360, a PS3, or even a Wii. The games for the next-most-recent generation are much cheaper and just as fun. Here's a list of must-haves for any RPG fan on the PS2:

Kingdom Hearts 1 and 2,
Final Fantasy 9, X, and X-2
Dragon Quest VIII

I'm sure there are others, but those top my list of best games for the PS2, with Kingdom Hearts 2 being #1. ;)

Reply Score: 1

RE: Some of the best
by danielcavanagh on Wed 8th Dec 2010 01:44 UTC in reply to "Some of the best"
danielcavanagh Member since:
2010-12-08

FF9 was on the PS1, unless I missed a PS2 rerelease. I whole-heartedly agree though. I think perhaps Thom should buy a PS1 as well just to play FF9 ;) Very awesome game

Reply Score: 1

RE[2]: Some of the best
by NeoX on Wed 8th Dec 2010 01:53 UTC in reply to "RE: Some of the best"
NeoX Member since:
2006-02-19

FF9 was on the PS1, unless I missed a PS2 rerelease. I whole-heartedly agree though. I think perhaps Thom should buy a PS1 as well just to play FF9 ;) Very awesome game


Since the PS2 is backwards compatible, you can play PS1 games just fine on a PS2, you just need a PS1 mem card.

Heck for that matter, you can play it on any PS3 too with a virtual mem card.

Reply Score: 1

RE[3]: Some of the best
by danielcavanagh on Wed 8th Dec 2010 02:02 UTC in reply to "RE[2]: Some of the best"
danielcavanagh Member since:
2010-12-08

Ahh ok. It didn't realise it was backward-compatible. I can fully recommend FF9 then, and also FF7 while we're at it

Yeah, I knew about the PS1 capability on PS3. I've played a few PS1 games already and fully intend to run through FF7 & FF9 again. Ahh, the good memories ;) My friend thinks the past is best left in the past but he's a fool so let's not pay attention to him

Edited 2010-12-08 02:04 UTC

Reply Score: 1

RE[4]: Some of the best
by Morgan on Wed 8th Dec 2010 09:22 UTC in reply to "RE[3]: Some of the best"
Morgan Member since:
2005-06-29

I still have my PC copy of FF7, and I'm currently scouting parts to build a circa 1998 computer specifically to play it, Unreal, Quake II, Star Trek Armada II, Thief I and II, and System Shock 2. Each of those games has a special place in my heart, especially FF7 and the Thief series. I have my original copy of Windows 98SE on hand; I'm glad I decided to hang on to that.

I tried with an Athlon-based HP Pavilion but it overheats no matter how much I try to keep it cool. So, I'm currently scouting a PII or PIII based system, preferably a Compaq Deskpro with an AGP slot as I already have two good cards, an nVidia Vanta and a Radeon 7000, to try out.

Reply Score: 2

RE[5]: Some of the best
by dnebdal on Wed 8th Dec 2010 17:59 UTC in reply to "RE[4]: Some of the best"
dnebdal Member since:
2008-08-27

Just as a note, FF7 in an emulator both looks better and is easier to get working than the PC version. ;)

(The emulators are comparatively recent software, and they add antialiasing and filtering to make the games look better.)

Reply Score: 1

RE[6]: Some of the best
by zima on Sun 12th Dec 2010 19:07 UTC in reply to "RE[5]: Some of the best"
zima Member since:
2005-07-06

And some of those emulators are still developed.

But adding antialiasing (basically forcing higher resolution too, typically) and filtering doesn't have to be a good thing - a problem many PC games of that era also had, turning textures into "soap", and when applied to some PS1 games the degradation can be much greater. The better / later ones used some tricks - mostly forms of dithering - which get typically destroyed by high color palettes, resolutions or hardware filtering.

Tricks which were often an integral part of the visual style, especially in better / late games. MGS is some example of that, but the most striking would be probably Silent Hill (C-12 certainly close). In its original form it doesn't look bad - it looks rough; which adds to the creepiness.

But when I saw it being played on an emulator with all the "shiny" options used...it turned into sterile soap (NVM how playing SH without vibration of a Dualshock is a travesty ;) )

Reply Score: 1

RE[5]: Some of the best
by Drumhellar on Wed 8th Dec 2010 23:52 UTC in reply to "RE[4]: Some of the best"
Drumhellar Member since:
2005-07-12

Ya know, it's possible to rip and convert the movies from the PSX FF7 to AVI files, and replace the videos that a come with the PC version of the game. You'll end up with higher-quality videos.

That is, unless you have the re-release; I think it uses Bink video, and of a quality which you wouldn't notice a difference.

Otherwise, Your best bet is to emulate it. On the orignal PC version, the videos are terrible, and the game insists on using it's crappy Yamaha sound synth, instead of general MIDI (which gives you the opportunity of using high-quality instruments).

Reply Score: 2

RE[5]: Some of the best
by zima on Sun 12th Dec 2010 18:52 UTC in reply to "RE[4]: Some of the best"
zima Member since:
2005-07-06

At least the first two of those games shouldn't have problems on moderns setups. Unreal 1 might benefit slightly, visually, from running on 3dfx hardware - but since that's not the plan... (and Glide wrappers could take care of this possible slight difference in visuals anyway)

But yeah, as others have pointed out - it's generally much more straightforward to run console versions of games from that era, under emulators (though high color palettes and filtering often harm them IMHO, when applied without limits...)

Reply Score: 1

Comment by danielcavanagh
by danielcavanagh on Wed 8th Dec 2010 01:58 UTC
danielcavanagh
Member since:
2010-12-08

Ok, it was about time I signed up to OSNews. Funny that it wasn't an OS-related post that did it

This is beyond awesome, Thom. I'm the same as you. This year I really started to get back into gaming after a multi-year hiatus. I'd always planned to get a PS2 but I never had the money and never did. You've got me thinking about getting one now though. I've been wanting to play ICO for ages... So thanks :p

You also make a good point about the gaming journalism. It's absolutely horrible, so thanks for the website tip as well

I'd recommend Okami if you don't have any intention of getting a Wii. It's a lovely little Japanese platform/adventure game that (I think) is highly regarded in the same manner as ICO. I'm interested in Metal Gear Solid and Final Fantasy X as well but haven't played them so can't recommend them quite yet

Happy gaming

Edited 2010-12-08 02:05 UTC

Reply Score: 1

God of war hands down
by kragil on Wed 8th Dec 2010 02:05 UTC
kragil
Member since:
2006-01-04

When you see God of Wars graphics, animation, sound, music and story you won't touch any other PS2 games anymore IMO.
I just recently finished God of war II on the PS2 and I have to say that game is such a nice and lovely "thank you" and "good bye" by Sony to such a great system.
It probably is the best game the PS2 will ever see all things considered.

Reply Score: 2

PS2 Games
by Flatland_Spider on Wed 8th Dec 2010 02:09 UTC
Flatland_Spider
Member since:
2006-09-01

I have fond memories of Gran Turismo 3 and 4. I wasted many hours tweaking the cars, trying to get the perfect lap time, and trying to win races so I could afford more cars. They're not as good as the first one, they lack some of the cars from the second, but you can sink hours into them, if you like simulations

X-Men Legends is the other title I spent a lot of time with. It's addicting and fun, especially if you're an X-men fan. It has the right balance of skill and upgrades to really make it a great dungeon crawler. At the time I was working for a books/music/rental chain which has a predominately green theme, and I remember searching the store servers in the area looking for a used copy. That was a fun job. ;)

Aside from those, I really didn't get a lot of games.

Reply Score: 1

Raffaele
Member since:
2005-11-12

Playstation was just a console (i.e. a "dedicated computer")...

All purpose computers are something different from a console.

Consoles usually are not expandable with more RAM, or expansion cards.

Also usually even big consoles as PS2 and PS3 lacks in amount of video-RAM that is a vital hardware to make a console to act really as an all-purpose computer.

So even if some talented hacker geeks manage to run Computer Operating Systems on modern consoles thanks to the fact that these have enough horsepower, then the computer OSs usually run with many limitations or major leaks on the poor "little" console.

Best selling computer of all times was Commodore C)64 with 10 millions or 12 millions of units sold...

Edited 2010-12-08 03:00 UTC

Reply Score: 2

Morgan Member since:
2005-06-29

Have you had any real experience with the original "fat" PS2 or the original Xbox? The former had the ability (supported by Sony) to run a full Linux distro and run it well. The latter was an honest-to-goodness x86 PC, specifically a 733MHz Pentium III, that could also run a few Linux and BSD systems, as well as XBMC.

I'd say those two are great examples of just how close to general-purpose computing one can come with a console.

Oh, and I almost forgot: I had NetBSD and Linux booting and running just fine on my Dreamcast eight years ago. With the ability to use a keyboard and mouse without any hardware modification this was very much like having an ultra-compact general purpose PC on a big screen. I loved it!

Reply Score: 4

.
by Icaria on Wed 8th Dec 2010 02:54 UTC
Icaria
Member since:
2010-06-19

BG&E was a waste on the PS2, get it for your Xbox instead. Way too much input latency and floaty controls.

Also worth checking out were Psychonauts (although again, better on the Xbox) and Burnout 3: Takedown, the high point for the series.

Reply Score: 1

Killer7
by stqn on Wed 8th Dec 2010 03:45 UTC
stqn
Member since:
2010-12-08

Don't waste anything getting Killer7, it's unplayable due to the very frequent and lengthy loading screens.
ICO is decent though. I've got a PS2 but for some reason I don't really remember any worthwhile game.

Edit: ok, Rez might be good enough. And maybe some Dance Dance revolution too.

Edited 2010-12-08 03:48 UTC

Reply Score: 1

What is Your Preference In Games?
by TheIdiotThatIsMe on Wed 8th Dec 2010 04:19 UTC
TheIdiotThatIsMe
Member since:
2006-06-17

I know you were looking for recommendations on PS2 (and because of backwards compatibility, probably PS1) classics, but before we can delve in to what is could potentially be a seriously long and detailed list, I have one VERY important question to ask.

Exactly what kind of games do you enjoy? I know the question may seem silly, but the reason the Playstation 2 was one of my all time favorite consoles was because I had always been a huge role playing fan; between PS2 exclusives, hidden gems, and backwards compatibility, the PS2 has the largest library of RPG's of any console I've ever personally encountered. Having said that, it would do little good to rattle off a list of my personal favorites if you can't stand RPG's.

Also, if you ever decide to expand your game library to explore some of those retro consoles you missed, check out Racketboy.com for some good information on classics (both well known and hidden gems).

Reply Score: 1

Just got a PS2 myself
by Johann Chua on Wed 8th Dec 2010 05:08 UTC
Johann Chua
Member since:
2005-07-22

Mainly got a PS2 so I could play Sakura Wars: So Long, My Love. The Wii port doesn't seem to be in stock locally.

Reply Score: 2

Fate story...
by IvoLimmen on Wed 8th Dec 2010 05:59 UTC
IvoLimmen
Member since:
2005-07-06

You just want to hear "Happy birthday" from us? Didn't you? ;)

Happy birthday man.

Reply Score: 1

My main gaming units are...
by SuperDaveOsbourne on Wed 8th Dec 2010 07:25 UTC
SuperDaveOsbourne
Member since:
2007-06-24

Skeeball (15' version)
Sonic's Mars Trek
Gottlieb's Four Seaons
Gottlieb's Royal Flush
Gottlieb's Buchaneer
William's Stellar Wars (being gutted to make a wide body PinMame)
Pool Table
Slot Machine
Digital Pinball on OSX (Littlewing as a company is the BOMB!)

In all, the boner people get over PSX or other gaming software/systems pretty much doesn't beat the real phenom that is physical pinball and real games outside of the computer realm.

Reply Score: 1

a few to look for
by garyd on Wed 8th Dec 2010 07:26 UTC
garyd
Member since:
2008-10-22

Here are some of my favorites; Oni, the Timesplitters series, the Katamari games, Star Wars: Battlefront 1 & 2, Virtual On (the 2007 PS2 update of the first game, not Marz), any of the LEGO games by Traveller's Tales.

Reply Score: 1

Comment by Kroc
by Kroc on Wed 8th Dec 2010 08:35 UTC
Kroc
Member since:
2005-11-10

For platform games, Jak & Daxter. Truly brilliant. At the time it was a big leap forward for platforming games and real time rendering, period. In fact, why hasn’t Mario learnt from Jak & Daxter, and moved on from a 25 year old design??

Reply Score: 1

RE: Comment by Kroc
by Beta on Sun 12th Dec 2010 17:35 UTC in reply to "Comment by Kroc"
Beta Member since:
2005-07-06

Mario is like FIFA…

Mario games have only kept their audience because they’ve changed the playing field: Super Mario 64 (arguably good, but I love it), Paper Mario, etc.
Compress 64 to 2D, or remove the cute paper / pokemon battles from Paper, and they would be stale.

Reply Score: 2

Favourite Games
by churlish_Helmut on Wed 8th Dec 2010 08:47 UTC
churlish_Helmut
Member since:
2010-04-12

Well, i think, there are a alot of games for that great piece of Hardware.

Hmmmm, The List ist really long, so, where should i start? Well one of my favourite Games are Dragon Quest VIII and Rogue Galaxy. Really, great Games, with great Storylines and superb graphics.
But i think, its nothing for Thom, 'cause they've got some sort of Manga-Graphics.

Great Games are also
Grand Theft Auto - San Andreas (In my humble opinion MUCH better than Grand Theft Auto 4.
I really enjoyed PES 2006.. Yeah, its old, especially the Graphics, but it has a fine gameplay, and with its Editors you can keep it up to date (and hey - there is also the Eredevise )

There are some more games. Some popular games arent worth playing... For Example Final Fantasy X, with its daft characters and a silly ending ...

But really: Its some sort of computer, of course. Its demonstrate also, how important the entertaining sector is in buisness.

Reply Score: 1

Comment by Neolander
by Neolander on Wed 8th Dec 2010 09:00 UTC
Neolander
Member since:
2010-03-08

My friend says that Metal gear solid 3 is a must-have. Tried to play the game on my PC, and surprisingly it's still near-impossible to get smooth PS2 emulation nowadays.

As for whether a PS2 is a computer, well, in my opinion, it's essentially about the ability to reprogram it. You reprogram a video game console each time you put a CD/cartridge in it (somewhat), so it fits in the category.

(I don't consider something like a fridge with a Motorola 68K inside a computer, but looking at what the GBA homebrew community did it fits in that category for me)

Edited 2010-12-08 09:12 UTC

Reply Score: 2

RE: Comment by Neolander
by Raffaele on Wed 8th Dec 2010 09:49 UTC in reply to "Comment by Neolander"
Raffaele Member since:
2005-11-12

As for whether a PS2 is a computer, well, in my opinion, it's essentially about the ability to reprogram it. You reprogram a video game console each time you put a CD/cartridge in it (somewhat), so it fits in the category. (I don't consider something like a fridge with a Motorola 68K inside a computer, but looking at what the GBA homebrew community did it fits in that category for me)


It is a console, i.e. a computer that is strongly limited to those specific tasks of playing games and aimed at entertainment, or else I can consider also as a personal computer my smartphone each time I put a micro SD card in it, and play new applets, or I can consider as a computer my old Mattel Intellevision (TM) console, or my scientific electronic calculator.

Facts remain that you can't put a cartridge or a CD into your precious "widdle cunsole" and run natively an Office Suite on it... LOL!

You need to dig deeply into its guts and perform dirty tricks with its firmware to make a console running something that barely resembles performing a computer for anyday usage.

That's the difference with consoles and usual personal computers, because "real" personal computers are built from the early design to be flexible and multi purpose.

For example to achieve new Ultra High Definition TV 4320p in a real personal computer, you just need to add a new graphic card that supports it.

But you can't do that into a console, that is designed not to be expanded.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ultra_High_Definition_Television

Edited 2010-12-08 10:06 UTC

Reply Score: 1

RE[2]: Comment by Neolander
by Thom_Holwerda on Wed 8th Dec 2010 10:01 UTC in reply to "RE: Comment by Neolander"
Thom_Holwerda Member since:
2005-06-29

You need to dig deeply into its guts and perform dirty tricks with its firmware to make a console running something that barely resembles performing a computer for anyday usage.


Uhm, no. There's a sanctioned Linux kit for the Playstation 2, released and sold by Sony. How is that "digging deeply into its guts" and "dirty tricks"? No offence, but last time I checked, the ability to run Linux on the PS2 makes it a hell of a lot more useful than any Amiga.

Same applies to the Dreamcast and Xbox.

Reply Score: 1

RE[3]: Comment by Neolander
by Raffaele on Wed 8th Dec 2010 10:23 UTC in reply to "RE[2]: Comment by Neolander"
Raffaele Member since:
2005-11-12

You need to dig deeply into its guts and perform dirty tricks with its firmware to make a console running something that barely resembles performing a computer for anyday usage.


Uhm, no. There's a sanctioned Linux kit for the Playstation 2, released and sold by Sony.
[/q]

It is limited.

You can't access with that Linux distro the real capabilities of all PS2 components and unleash its full power.

Sony has prevented that distro to access full capabilities of PS2.

How is that "digging deeply into its guts" and "dirty tricks"? No offence, but last time I checked, the ability to run Linux on the PS2 makes it a hell of a lot more useful than any Amiga. Same applies to the Dreamcast and Xbox.


That's questionable.

Infacts, as I said previously, modern consoles are full of hardware such as Hard Disks, but you can't expand a console.

It is a product that is born to be with certain characteristics, and you can't expand it just because the manufacturers are planning from the beginning that geeks and core users, and finally the entire market will drop in the trash the old models and purchase a new console unit any time they put new features in it (such as WiFi for example).

Consoles are born to be "usable and disposable" with a high consumption and replacing ratio.

I have nothing versus consoles, but facts says that are just limited computers, and born to play games and sometimes play movies or music.

And by the way, if with that statement you tried to hurt my ego as for the fact I am an amigan, you failed miserably.

However nice try. Better luck next time.

Edited 2010-12-08 10:32 UTC

Reply Score: 2

RE[4]: Comment by Neolander
by Neolander on Wed 8th Dec 2010 10:28 UTC in reply to "RE[3]: Comment by Neolander"
Neolander Member since:
2010-03-08

Infacts, as I said previously, modern consoles are full of hardware such as Hard Disks, but you can't expand a console.

I have one thing to say : Game Boy Camera ^^

Reply Score: 2

RE[5]: Comment by Neolander
by Raffaele on Wed 8th Dec 2010 10:56 UTC in reply to "RE[4]: Comment by Neolander"
Raffaele Member since:
2005-11-12

Infacts, as I said previously, modern consoles are full of hardware such as Hard Disks, but you can't expand a console.


I have one thing to say : Game Boy Camera ^^


So what? ;)

I am enough confident (no offense) to show you two devices in the history of consoles:

Mattel Intellevision could be upgraded to a full computer system adding an adaptor into the cartridge slot...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Entertainment_Computer_System

Even Colecovision console could became a full computer by adding an ADAM module in the cartridge slot, just as Intellevision ECS.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coleco_Adam

But that hybrids, did not made these consoles became "real" personal computers, but just only hybrids...

It required a special hardware to be added into the cartridge slot, that is not a full featured expansion slot, and it is more or less just add-ons, like what is done with GameBoy Camera.

I.e. the consoles need an ENTIRE external computer connected thru the cartridge slots to became themselves as computers.

(And perhaps GameBoy Camera is just an external device to acquire images...

That not makes the GameBoy a full featured all purpose computer.

You need more and more external hardware connected thru the cartridge slot, to make Gameboy became a full featured computer, just as those ancient consoles.)

Adding expansions in consoles thru cartridge slots is just a crock way to expand it.

Edited 2010-12-08 11:05 UTC

Reply Score: 2

RE[6]: Comment by Neolander
by Neolander on Wed 8th Dec 2010 11:05 UTC in reply to "RE[5]: Comment by Neolander"
Neolander Member since:
2010-03-08

It required a special hardware to be added into the cartridge slot, that is not a full featured expansion slot, and it is more or less just add-ons, like what is done with GameBoy Camera.

I'm a bit confused : what is a full-featured expansion slot, then ? What is the difference between an expansion and an add-on ?

Until now, I thought that you were talking about adding features which the original hardware was not made to support (and we can arguably say that nothing in the GameBoy Pocket hardware prepared it to become a digital camera)

Edited 2010-12-08 11:08 UTC

Reply Score: 2

RE[7]: Comment by Neolander
by Raffaele on Wed 8th Dec 2010 11:22 UTC in reply to "RE[6]: Comment by Neolander"
Raffaele Member since:
2005-11-12

I'm a bit confused : what is a full-featured expansion slot, then ? What is the difference between an expansion and an add-on ?


IMHO basically if the design of the console provides from the beginning that the console slot connectors could get full access to internal BUS, full hardware chips, peripherals, controlling even things such as processor interrupts, and provides externally connector-joints to make the expansion to became a full-one with the original machine corpse then it is a full expansion slot.

For example Amiga CD32 was built haing in mind to make it became a full computer by adding SX1 module.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amiga_CD32#Accessories_and_third_party...

While I consider ADD-ONS things like Starpath Supercharger for Atari 2600, that was an external device connecting thru cartridge slot.

Starpath Supercharger added the Atari 2600 with 6 Kilobytes of memory, and make Atari load it at pages of 128 bytes (Maximum RAM of Atari 2600)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Starpath_Supercharger

This makes Atari2600 not to upgrade its hardware capabilities (it is impossible for a console to expand thru hardware changing), but Supercharger lets Atari bypass its limits thru external hardware add-on.

Edited 2010-12-08 11:28 UTC

Reply Score: 2

RE[4]: Comment by Neolander
by garyd on Wed 8th Dec 2010 19:24 UTC in reply to "RE[3]: Comment by Neolander"
garyd Member since:
2008-10-22

It is limited. You can't access with that Linux distro the real capabilities of all PS2 components and unleash its full power. Sony has prevented that distro to access full capabilities of PS2.


And it's not only old and has no updates but it's not been available new since way before the slim models were released -- so the only way to get is via eBay, Craigslist, and other used channels. The Dreamcast still has a NetBSD port that's alive and well but interest in running any form of Unix on consoles has always been a niche space without enough momentum behind them to provide incentive for folks to keep hacking them and updating their distributions. YDL for PS3 was keeping current until Sony pulled their official means of installing it but I haven't checked to see what's going on there since George Hotz et al have stepped in to fill the gap.

Reply Score: 1

RE[2]: Comment by Neolander
by Neolander on Wed 8th Dec 2010 10:19 UTC in reply to "RE: Comment by Neolander"
Neolander Member since:
2010-03-08

It is a console, i.e. a computer that is strongly limited to those specific tasks of playing games and aimed at entertainment, or else I can consider also as a personal computer my smartphone each time I put a micro SD card in it, and play new applets, or I can consider as a computer my old Mattel Intellevision (TM) console, or my scientific electronic calculator.

Well, I do consider all those devices as computers. They couldn't reasonably be implemented using non-reprogrammable technology. Given sufficiently complicated internals, all fridges can work without a microprocessor inside.

To separate desktops and laptops from a fixed-purpose device like, say, a GBA or a Nokia 3310, I use the notion of general-purpose computer. Those which can be used in nearly any information processing task belong to this category.

Edited 2010-12-08 10:26 UTC

Reply Score: 2

RE[2]: Comment by Neolander
by vodoomoth on Wed 8th Dec 2010 14:55 UTC in reply to "RE: Comment by Neolander"
vodoomoth Member since:
2010-03-30

For example to achieve new Ultra High Definition TV 4320p in a real personal computer, you just need to add a new graphic card that supports it.

That's stupid in my opinion. When are they going to stop that race for definition? When the human eye is saturated and we need Terminator's eyes implanted? As a side note to my rant below, let's remember that 16x16 icons are still common.

I am still encoding dvds at 16:9 aspect ratio with a 512 to 576 width. Granted, I'm using x264 and watching the movies on my 1440x900 laptop screen. But this is getting ultimately ludicrous, in the same way that slapping a 12 Mpx sensor on a consumer camera is. What's the point of a poster-size when people still print 15cm-wide photographs? How many people print enlarged photographs? I don't and I've never seen anyone who did. I'd rather have better color, fast storing of pictures, an insanely huge zoom or a flawless unwavering stabilizer! Even better, just usable software for handling picture collections.

Btw, I am still using a 33-cm CRT TV by Daewoo that I bought 10+ years ago (11 by the end of next month) for my 9 square meters student room. That was the cheapest TV I could buy; honestly, it's been amortized long before the one year warranty expired. The plasma TV phase evaded me, as well as the LCD TV. That tv of mine won't die so the 3D TV thing might evade me as well, just like the LedTV, the HDTV and the UHDTV: "The ultimate goal is for UHDTV to be available in domestic homes, though the timeframe for this happening varies between 2016 to 2020". What? Six to ten years from now? I don't understand this world.

Edited 2010-12-08 14:57 UTC

Reply Score: 3

RE[3]: Comment by Neolander
by Raffaele on Wed 8th Dec 2010 17:22 UTC in reply to "RE[2]: Comment by Neolander"
Raffaele Member since:
2005-11-12

For example to achieve new Ultra High Definition TV 4320p in a real personal computer, you just need to add a new graphic card that supports it.


That's stupid in my opinion. When are they going to stop that race for definition? When the human eye is saturated and we need Terminator's eyes implanted?

[MEGACUT]



I agree.

The long race for higher definition TV is just a market move to let people spend their money in new TV sets and drop the old ones.

(It is called "consumism", you know.)

But that fits perfectly the example.

Buy new graphic cards with HDTV or UWTV and you could adapt your personal computer to new standard market.

Buy a console and you could run only at that graphic resolutions that it was built the video-chipset embedded into your current model release.

If another model of console was was released with more graphic capabilities, then you are forced to purchase it to obtain the new graphic resolutions, because there is no way to upgrade the old one console...

Then what you can do with your obsolete console?

You have many choices... You could continue using it until it melts down, you could drop your ancient console and put it in garage/attic, or sell it, make it a gift to some nephews/cousins/little brothers or put it in the garbage. ;)

Edited 2010-12-08 17:27 UTC

Reply Score: 2

Great Topic
by Dreday on Wed 8th Dec 2010 09:15 UTC
Dreday
Member since:
2010-12-08

The PS2 was, and still is my favorite home console of all time. And it's from what I think will be considered the golden age of gaming when it's all said and done.

As far as personal Recs go Try:

*Final Fantasy X

*Metal Gear Solid 2:Substance(or Essential Collection if you can find it)

*Jak II and III

*Resident Evil 4 & Code Veronica

*Hitman Collection

*Urban Chaos:Riot Response

*God of War I & II

*TimeSpitters 2

*Devil May Cry 3:Special Edition

*GTA:Vice City(Walmart has the entire trilogy available for 20 bucks)

Recs other than the more obvious ones:

*Primal

*Rygar: The Legendary Adventure

*Clock Tower 3

This isn't even scratching the surface of the PS2's massive library. I could easily run out of space just listing half of them.

Reply Score: 1

RE: Great Topic
by zima on Sun 12th Dec 2010 13:57 UTC in reply to "Great Topic"
zima Member since:
2005-07-06

Pretty much any "age of gaming" is considered to be golden by those who were young while it lasted...

Reply Score: 1

driver: parallel lines
by hansa on Wed 8th Dec 2010 14:41 UTC
hansa
Member since:
2010-04-08

I got a PS2 slim for my birthday 5 years ago.
There was much talk about the xbox360 and PS3 already. Especially about what the games could do better than an PS2 or original xbox.
Like physics, huge environments, intelligent damage models, better AI, better graphics, etc.
And in 2006 i got Driver: Parallel lines
It had it all and very good.
Physics: for example: metal fences sparks on roads and not on dirt/grass.
Huge environments: New York is massively recreated. More massive than Liberty City of GTA 4,
Damage models: Cars damaged intelligent.
Better AI: Well, i don't see much difference between my ps2 and ps3 games, but that could be me.
Graphics: For PS2 it had stunning graphics, no pop-up, great lightning and fog effects.

The most amazing thing was that the game was loaded on the fly. After the initial loading there where no more loading pauses.

It kept the PS3 away until halfway 2009. And I still game on my PS2 a lot: GTA: San Andreas: The graphics are not to write home about, but the gameplay/depth of that game is amazing.

The list of great games according to me:
GTA: San Andreas
Driver: Parallel lines
GTA: Vice City
Kingdom Hearts
Katamari
Gran Turismo 3 A-spec
Star Wars Battlefront 2

B.t.w. Tom, the GTA 3 series (III, Vice City and San Andreas) just came out on Mac at http://gametreeonline.com

Reply Score: 1

Comment by Fransexy
by Fransexy on Wed 8th Dec 2010 18:46 UTC
Fransexy
Member since:
2005-07-29

if you consider ps2 a computer then every electronic device that can run an OS is a computer. THEN I AM VERY SURE THAT THE BEST SELLING COMPUTER OF ALL TIMES IS SOME MOBILE PHONE!!!!!!

Reply Score: 1

RE: Comment by Fransexy
by frood on Thu 9th Dec 2010 16:48 UTC in reply to "Comment by Fransexy"
frood Member since:
2005-07-06

which one?

Reply Score: 2

RE[2]: Comment by Fransexy
by zima on Sun 12th Dec 2010 14:12 UTC in reply to "RE: Comment by Fransexy"
zima Member since:
2005-07-06

Nokia 1100, ~250 million. Same for Nokia 1200/1208/1209, if treating them as one phone (generally - 9 out of top10 are Nokia phones)

Reply Score: 1

RE: Comment by Fransexy
by bogomipz on Fri 10th Dec 2010 18:28 UTC in reply to "Comment by Fransexy"
bogomipz Member since:
2005-07-11

Or perhaps the Linksys WRT54G wireless router?

Reply Score: 2

My favorite PS2 games
by DeadFishMan on Thu 9th Dec 2010 17:02 UTC
DeadFishMan
Member since:
2006-01-09

My favorite PS2 games of all time in no particular order are Tekken 5, Soul Calibur 3, King of Fighters Maximum Impact 1 and 2, Burnout Revenge, Guitar Hero 3, Crazy Taxi and Shadow of the Colossus. I am surprised to see that nobody has mentioned fighting games yet given that the PS2 was the best fighting game platform for a little while after the NeoGeo stepped down from the plate.

While most of these games cannot hold a candle next to modern games, BLACK, Soul Calibur 3, Tekken 5 and Burnout Revenge (with the slow motion car wrecks!) show that the PS2 was capable of breathtaking graphics every now and then that still hold up in 2010.

Reply Score: 2

Best "game" ever
by DevL on Fri 10th Dec 2010 06:52 UTC
DevL
Member since:
2005-07-06

Rez. And get the HD version for your 360 as well.

Reply Score: 2

My first game system was a Playstation
by dstidolph on Fri 10th Dec 2010 19:57 UTC
dstidolph
Member since:
2005-08-09

While my family had one or two (Atari 2600 and the even older PONG), I did not buy one for some time - well after I was married and had kids.

I worked as a game programmer and was working for EA when I found out that they offered up to $100 for their people to buy game consoles. Well, Sony had just dropped the price for the Playstation to $99 and I was able to get it for free. Plus the fact that EA had a "store" in our building and sold PC games for $5 and console games for $10 and I cleaned up that Christmas. ;)

My favorite game was Spyro.

Now that system is long gone and I have recently gotten a Wii. Yes, I am quite behind the times...

Reply Score: 1

Comment by Beta
by Beta on Sun 12th Dec 2010 17:38 UTC
Beta
Member since:
2005-07-06

Interesting, 4 of your must have games are either on PS3 or soon coming to it:

Prince of Persia
ICO
Shadow Of The Colossus
Beyond Good & Evil

Reply Score: 2