Linked by Thom Holwerda on Tue 14th Dec 2010 22:52 UTC
Mac OS X Hi, I'm Thom Holwerda and I jailbreak my iPhone. There, I said it. Some suggest all jailbreakers only do it to pirate applications, but those of us familiar with the practice know there's a whole load of other reasons, the biggest of which is customisation. The iOS isn't pleasing to look at in my book, and hence, jailbreaking allows me to make my iPhone pretty. Jay 'saurik' Freeman, the man behind the Cydia App Store, is going to bring Cydia to the Mac, to bring the kind of customisation options from Cydia to the Mac.
Order by: Score:
Comment by satan666
by satan666 on Tue 14th Dec 2010 23:42 UTC
satan666
Member since:
2008-04-18

Jailbreaking the Iphone is good. Not buying one is even better. Unless of course, you want to be "cool".

Reply Score: 3

RE: Comment by satan666
by JoeBuck on Tue 14th Dec 2010 23:46 UTC in reply to "Comment by satan666"
JoeBuck Member since:
2006-01-11

Agreed; I just don't buy Apple products because I don't want to pay for a pretty jail. If you jailbreak, fine, but you've already given Apple your money.

Reply Score: 6

RE: Comment by satan666
by testman on Tue 14th Dec 2010 23:55 UTC in reply to "Comment by satan666"
testman Member since:
2007-10-15

Unless of course, you want to be "cool".

...or simply don't care.

Reply Score: 1

RE: Comment by satan666
by DOSguy on Wed 15th Dec 2010 03:02 UTC in reply to "Comment by satan666"
DOSguy Member since:
2009-07-27

Unless of course, you want to be "cool".


One could very well say the same about an Android phone. I notice that Android phones are quite on par with iPhones when it comes to perceived coolness AND number of units being sold.

Edited 2010-12-15 03:05 UTC

Reply Score: 2

RE[2]: Comment by satan666
by Neolander on Wed 15th Dec 2010 07:48 UTC in reply to "RE: Comment by satan666"
Neolander Member since:
2010-03-08

One could very well say the same about an Android phone. I notice that Android phones are quite on par with iPhones when it comes to perceived coolness AND number of units being sold.

Exactly. In fact, this applies to the whole touchscreen trend, looking at the number of Samsung and LG touchscreen phones I see around me (while mumbling in my white beard that it won't make me hate them less).

Reply Score: 2

RE: Comment by satan666
by moondevil on Wed 15th Dec 2010 07:05 UTC in reply to "Comment by satan666"
moondevil Member since:
2005-07-08

Couldn't agree more.

If you don't agree how something works, just don't buy it.

Don't go buy it and then complain it does not work as you would like it to.

Reply Score: 4

RE[2]: Comment by satan666
by coreyography on Wed 15th Dec 2010 17:40 UTC in reply to "RE: Comment by satan666"
coreyography Member since:
2009-03-06

The problem with that is that one can't ever get *everything* one wants in a purchase. And it seems that the more money one pays, the more this is true (though that could be because one's standards are more exacting).

So you get as close as you can to what you want, and then do what you can to get around the remaining issues.

Reply Score: 2

Why?
by darknexus on Wed 15th Dec 2010 00:07 UTC
darknexus
Member since:
2008-07-15

It's not as if the Mac is locked... at least not yet.

Reply Score: 3

RE: Why?
by Elv13 on Wed 15th Dec 2010 00:51 UTC in reply to "Why?"
Elv13 Member since:
2006-06-12

To have a centralized place to download hacks. Your question come down to "why does Linux have package management system, I can copy paste applications"

Reply Score: 2

Comment by Stratoukos
by Stratoukos on Wed 15th Dec 2010 00:11 UTC
Stratoukos
Member since:
2009-02-11

Cydia on the iPhone is more than just low level modifications. It's an apt front end and that means that it also hosts 'regular' applications. Since the rules for the Mac App Store are quite strict, I'm actually more interested in a more open Store for these 'regular' applications.

Sidenote, but I never got the hate towards finder. I'm on a quite powerful machine, so performance is not an issue. Aside from that, it has anything I need from a file manager and its list view and quicklook make using any other file manager a pain. I've also tried PathFinder but aside from a few cool, but largely needless features in day-to-day file management (tabs and split view) I didn't see anything life shattering.

Reply Score: 4

Fixes or customisations?
by mrhasbean on Wed 15th Dec 2010 00:16 UTC
mrhasbean
Member since:
2006-04-03

I have SBSettings installed, which gives me Android-like easy access to on/off switches for various battery-sucking technologies such as wifi and 3G (there's no 3G in my small hometown) - it's unforgivable Apple hasn't implemented this.


Really? It just took me 21 seconds of my life to turn off both 3G and WIFI on my iPhone - and that included hitting the home button to wake it up and punch in the unlock code - using nothing but the built in Settings app. 21 seconds. As a percentage of your day how much time are you saving by using SBSettings?

When I upgraded from my original iPhone 3 to a 4 I jailbroke the old one to have a play - to see what all the fuss was about - and found absolutely no compelling reason to entertain doing it on the new phone. I use my phone for managing client networks (Windows, Linux and Mac), running my home theatre system, playing games, email, appointments calendar, SMS/MMS, Skype, tether it for remote internet access from my MacBook and yes even making the occasional phone call, and although I spent a weekend finding, installing and testing all of the joys jailbreaking brings to many I simply found nothing compelling in it for me. I even offered to leave it jailbroken for my 14 year old daughter - who inherited it - to be told "hell no Dad, a couple of my friends at school did that to theirs and they're pieces of crap, they're always having to restart them and they have so much sh1t on them. I don't want that." So it's all about perspective.

Now that I'm using my MacBook Air, I'm reminded of just how cumbersome and clunky Mac OS X can be compared to Windows 7 and Linux (they still haven't fixed the Finder - either Apple is entirely oblivious to a decade's worth of complaints, or they're really short on developers), so an easy way to fix the various issues Apple refuses to fix in Mac OS X would be very welcome indeed.


Thom you seem to have this idea that if you don't like something, or the geek community don't like something, it's "broken". Cumbersome and clunky in what ways? Each has its strengths and weaknesses. Do you honestly believe it's Apple's job to implement things that they don't see there being any benefit in just because a small percentage of the user base want it? You are always spouting off about openness and being able to customise stuff - isn't that what you're talking about here. YOU and maybe a total of 1% of Apple's customer base think the Finder's broken (and I'm one of them by the way, although I don't see it as broken, I'd just like some features it doesn't have, and most of them I have got around using either Automator scripts or some shell scripts), but Apple doesn't. Therefore they don't "fix" it. The fact that these things CAN be customised suggests that the OS is open and customisable, and leaves room for developers to create tools such as this. Isn't that what you want anyway? And lets be honest here too, over the years when Apple have implemented something in the OS that was originally developed by someone as an add-on the geek community have taken great joy in giving them crap about "copying" other people's stuff. Can't have it both ways.

And to save you the time of asking why I don't think this "openness" should apply to iPhone. It's all about potential risk and what that could cost the consumer. There's no doubt I'd like to see some more customisation options on the iPhone, no argument, but I don't think it needs to be open to achieve that. So IMHO the closed environment is a much less risky proposition for the consumer. As I pointed out the other day, deep down even your great white knight Google believes that to be the case...

Reply Score: 6

RE: Fixes or customisations?
by _txf_ on Wed 15th Dec 2010 00:34 UTC in reply to "Fixes or customisations?"
_txf_ Member since:
2008-03-17

It takes me 2 Seconds with Android to turn on/off 3g wifi gps etc. Frankly jumping in and out of menus for things you do often gets tiresome...

I wouldn't say Finder is broken so much as it is buggy.

Seriously how hard is it to stop finder windows jumping to the front when I empty the trash from the dock...This s**t is basic.

When switching spaces with cmd+arrow the finder windows come harassing again.

How about not breaking the ability to mount network shares if I loose a wireless connection.

Also I wish Apple didn't constantly break CIFS.

Oh yeah these extensions to OSX aren't sanctioned so could break whenever apple deems it necessary...then again the glacial pace of osx development means that you have years before things break between versions.

Reply Score: 7

RE[2]: Fixes or customisations?
by tyrione on Wed 15th Dec 2010 11:16 UTC in reply to "RE: Fixes or customisations?"
tyrione Member since:
2005-11-21

It takes me 2 Seconds with Android to turn on/off 3g wifi gps etc. Frankly jumping in and out of menus for things you do often gets tiresome...

I wouldn't say Finder is broken so much as it is buggy.

Seriously how hard is it to stop finder windows jumping to the front when I empty the trash from the dock...This s**t is basic.

When switching spaces with cmd+arrow the finder windows come harassing again.

How about not breaking the ability to mount network shares if I loose a wireless connection.

Also I wish Apple didn't constantly break CIFS.

Oh yeah these extensions to OSX aren't sanctioned so could break whenever apple deems it necessary...then again the glacial pace of osx development means that you have years before things break between versions.


Your unquantified test saved you 19 seconds upon which you spent a few minutes whining/bragging about that 19 seconds saved.

bravo

Reply Score: 0

RE[3]: Fixes or customisations?
by dizzey on Wed 15th Dec 2010 14:21 UTC in reply to "RE[2]: Fixes or customisations?"
dizzey Member since:
2005-10-15

I still think that 19 seconds is a god save for operations that you use a couple times a day.

19 seconds sounds about the difference to turn it of while your putting your phone in your pocket. To that you have to stand still and operate the phone for 20s and then putting your phone in your pocket and walking away.

For me a phone is a tool that is supposed to be ready when i need it, and when i dont need it i put it away. I really dont want to fiddel with the phone for 20s everytime i want to put it away

Reply Score: 3

RE[3]: Fixes or customisations?
by _txf_ on Wed 15th Dec 2010 14:23 UTC in reply to "RE[2]: Fixes or customisations?"
_txf_ Member since:
2008-03-17

It is less about the time saved and more about jumping in and out of menus for common and frequent actions.

Then again if you had actually read my comment you would know this...

Also what about my comment was unquantified? I said 2 seconds on Android. This IS correct; Maybe you were looking for a value in ms?

Edited 2010-12-15 14:24 UTC

Reply Score: 3

BallmerKnowsBest Member since:
2008-06-02

Your unquantified test saved you 19 seconds


"You keep on using that word, I do not think it means what you think it means."

upon which you spent a few minutes whining/bragging about that 19 seconds saved.

bravo


While you on the other hand spend your time in much more productive ways... like constantly crying and moaning about people who whine about your beloved Appple.

Didn't really think that one through, did you? LOL!

Reply Score: 4

RE: Fixes or customisations?
by google_ninja on Wed 15th Dec 2010 13:43 UTC in reply to "Fixes or customisations?"
google_ninja Member since:
2006-02-05

there is like, one app i would buy if I did the jailbreaking thing, thats it. IMO if you want to tinker with your phone, you are an idiot for buying an iphone in the first place.

Reply Score: 2

What for?
by ebasconp on Wed 15th Dec 2010 00:21 UTC
ebasconp
Member since:
2006-05-09

I don't see the utility of having Mac Cydia in the mac right now:

Actually the macs are very open right now; there are plenty of open source applications available for the mac, anyone can also install MacPorts or Fink to have a package manager on it.

I have NetBSD's pkgsrc installed in my macbook, I use it to install unix apps (rdesktop or mc come to my mind right now) and it works perfectly.

Edited 2010-12-15 00:22 UTC

Reply Score: 2

RE: What for?
by _txf_ on Wed 15th Dec 2010 00:37 UTC in reply to "What for?"
_txf_ Member since:
2008-03-17

I imagine these things are like theming cocoa windows and additions to window management etc . Things that have no public or well documented apple api.

This isn't so much about installing applications..which atm I am quite happy with.

Reply Score: 2

RE: What for?
by google_ninja on Wed 15th Dec 2010 13:44 UTC in reply to "What for?"
google_ninja Member since:
2006-02-05

imo homebrew is the greatest packaging system out there. and I use debian at work.

Reply Score: 2

RE[2]: What for?
by TheGZeus on Wed 15th Dec 2010 15:47 UTC in reply to "RE: What for?"
TheGZeus Member since:
2010-05-19

imo homebrew is the greatest packaging system out there.

Yeah, I think paper is the best writer out there.

(???)

Reply Score: 2

Sounds great
by Moochman on Wed 15th Dec 2010 05:42 UTC
Moochman
Member since:
2005-07-06

A free, repository-based model for keeping all my Mac add-ons up-to-date? In other words, a free, potentially better (for specific kinds of software) alternative to MacUpdate Desktop... Sign me up.

Btw, @

For instance, developers could fix things Apple has been refused to fix for almost a decade now, probably due to a lack of manpower, such as menubars on more than one monitor, but individual applications can be altered as well.


Check out SecondBar:
http://blog.boastr.net/?page_id=79

Reply Score: 4

Finder sucks
by pandronic on Wed 15th Dec 2010 07:23 UTC
pandronic
Member since:
2006-05-18

they still haven't fixed the Finder - either Apple is entirely oblivious to a decade's worth of complaints, or they're really short on developers


I don't think a multi-billion dollar company like Apple is short on anything, especially when we're talking about probably the most important application on Mac OS X - the default file manager.

The truth is that Apple is very fond (or arrogant) of the experience they provide and don't give a crap about what experienced or power users need.

Anyhow ... give this app a shot: http://totalfinder.binaryage.com/
It's a very well done Finder hack which gives you tabs and things that users of other OSes have had for the past 15 years (like cut&paste, sorting folders first if the user wishes so etc).

Edited 2010-12-15 07:24 UTC

Reply Score: 2

Comment by Paradroid
by Paradroid on Wed 15th Dec 2010 09:44 UTC
Paradroid
Member since:
2010-01-05

I'm a bit surprised by your comments on OS X being clunky. I have Window 7, OS X, Linux (and an Amiga) and find OS X is by far the slickest and most hassle-free computing environment.

The secret is learning the keyboard shortcuts and using them in conjunction with the mouse. They are worth learning because unlike Windows they are consistent across applications. Apple-W always closes a window (or tab). I really wish this was the case on Windows.

I agree the Finder is a bit too simplistic, and Apple's idealistic arguments against cut/paste are a bit pointless as well.

Reply Score: 1

RE: Comment by Paradroid
by helf on Fri 17th Dec 2010 01:02 UTC in reply to "Comment by Paradroid"
helf Member since:
2005-07-06

Completely subjective ;) I find OSX to be pretty clunky, but thats just me. One of my friend adores it. so, meh.

Reply Score: 2

The Hivemind vs. The Man
by atsureki on Wed 15th Dec 2010 18:39 UTC
atsureki
Member since:
2006-03-12

Some suggest all jailbreakers only do it to pirate applications, [...]


Smells mildly of strawman. That's almost certainly Apple's rationale for objecting, and I don't think they're wrong. The app store is a huge asset, and it only remains so as long as developers can be assured that the payment model works.

I don't question the legitimacy of hacking per se. Where I have a problem with jailbreakers, though, is when they talk as if they're being persecuted because the latest firmware update bricks their phone. I don't think Apple does it intentionally -- they don't want their support lines gummed up every time there's a new point release -- but I also don't care. When the phone was new, it did everything they said it would do. Feature updates are essentially a gift, and if you changed your phone in a way that doesn't get along with the gift, that's your decision and I believe your right, but then maybe you don't deserve a gift. So while I hold individual property rights in higher regards than IP restrictions, IP rights still trump a general sense of entitlement.

Reply Score: 2

RE: The Hivemind vs. The Man
by TheGZeus on Wed 15th Dec 2010 19:15 UTC in reply to "The Hivemind vs. The Man"
TheGZeus Member since:
2010-05-19

"If you can't open it, you don't own it".

You didn't buy anything, you're leasing it.

Reply Score: 3

Someone explain to me please.
by mkools on Wed 15th Dec 2010 21:02 UTC
mkools
Member since:
2005-10-11

So you buy an iPhone, then jailbreak it so that you can make it look like an Android device and have Android-like features......?

....Am I missing some big picture here? Because I hear this all the time. Can somebody explain this 'Apple-user logic' to me? Wouldn't it be more easy to just buy an Android device then?

I'm trying for years now to explain to myself why anybody would buy an iPhone (or iPad) but I just can't find any reason and yes I've played with both enough to know what they are about.

Sometimes they show one to me and say: yeah man, look I can play piano on my iPad, or I can play russian roulette on my iPhone....and then I'm like ehhh ok so what about it? And then they say idk its just cool and I'm thinking yah if you don't have a job and don't have anything to do all day it might get cool sooner or later....When I was 16 I said to my friends, look man I compiled my first Linux kernel.

And then they tell me they will never walk away from iPhone again and it's the best phone they ever had and Apple is so wonderful blabla.

Are they just brainwashed or what? I must admit Jobs did a hell of a job to make Apple users act the way they do right now.

Look at a previous reply, where someone's 14-year old daughter doesn't want a jailbroken iPhone because she probably would make a mess out of it? This is a really bad thing, people should experiment with stuff, especially young people. It's how you learn things, by screwing it up. When I first had my driver's license I took my dad's car and went to a sharp bend with a waaay to high velocity. I almost crashed, that's how I learned how to drive, not because my instructor (read: Apple) told me how to do it.

It's what makes people people. It's what makes young people try all kind of drugs to see what happens. It's human curiosity, it's not a bad thing like the company's and government try to tell you.

If we keep doing what large cooperations tell us to do we will end up as their slaves and don't grow a mind of our own. That's bad bad bad thing.

While typing this I'm starting to think this movie might be the truth some day: http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0238380/

If you've seen it you know what I mean.

Edited 2010-12-15 21:05 UTC

Reply Score: 3

Thom_Holwerda Member since:
2005-06-29

....Am I missing some big picture here? Because I hear this all the time. Can somebody explain this 'Apple-user logic' to me? Wouldn't it be more easy to just buy an Android device then?


When I bought my iPhone, no decent Android devices were out yet.

EDIT: In The Netherlands, that is. I'm not getting an HTC HD7 with Windows Phone 7, by the way.

Edited 2010-12-15 21:24 UTC

Reply Score: 1

unforgivable
by kovacm on Thu 16th Dec 2010 10:50 UTC
kovacm
Member since:
2010-12-16

"it's unforgivable Apple hasn't implemented this."

if it is unforgivable, why than you still use Apple iPhone? ;)

and

"Now that I'm using my MacBook Air, I'm reminded of just how cumbersome and clunky Mac OS X can be compared to Windows 7 and Linux (they still haven't fixed the Finder - either Apple is entirely oblivious to a decade's worth of complaints, or they're really short on developers)."

lol! yes, yes... Windows GUI is so much better that Mac OS X... not!

I do not see what Mac Cydia will change?!? You have for last 3 decades third party application that modify Mac OS. So what will Mac Cydia change?

Reply Score: 1

RE: unforgivable
by Thom_Holwerda on Thu 16th Dec 2010 11:14 UTC in reply to "unforgivable"
Thom_Holwerda Member since:
2005-06-29

if it is unforgivable, why than you still use Apple iPhone?


Because I'm not rich, nor does OSNews have a wealthy parent company which can give me free shit. We're not Engadget, Gizmodo, Ars Technica, etc.

Reply Score: 1

RE[2]: unforgivable
by TheGZeus on Thu 16th Dec 2010 15:19 UTC in reply to "RE: unforgivable"
TheGZeus Member since:
2010-05-19

So, you were rich when you bought it, or did that purchase make you poor?

I'm not calling you stupid, I'm just suggesting that perhaps you caught 'early adopter syndrome'.

I did that with the Sega Saturn. "It dropped to $200, and comes with 5 games! That's all I want for x-mas!"
You can imagine how that turned out.

I did have alot of fun with it, and I'm glad I never had to put it on its side or upside-down (thing still works perfectly!!).

Reply Score: 2

RE[3]: unforgivable
by Thom_Holwerda on Thu 16th Dec 2010 16:10 UTC in reply to "RE[2]: unforgivable"
Thom_Holwerda Member since:
2005-06-29

So, you were rich when you bought it, or did that purchase make you poor?

I'm not calling you stupid, I'm just suggesting that perhaps you caught 'early adopter syndrome'.


Eh, what?

You buy a phone with a contract here. I'm not going to spend €600 whenever a hot new phone comes out while my contract is still running - even though I technically could afford it. It's wasteful consumerism.

A year ago, the iPhone 3GS was BY FAR the best phone available in The Netherlands. Decent Android phones didn't appear until much later.

Reply Score: 1

RE[4]: unforgivable
by TheGZeus on Thu 16th Dec 2010 16:29 UTC in reply to "RE[3]: unforgivable"
TheGZeus Member since:
2010-05-19

*shrug*
I bought my Droid Pro on contract, as well.
I just waited until a good phone with common-yet-modern features came out, knowing that most of the software was Free, and that there'd likely be a CyanogenMod out for it soon.

I waited, and waited, and waited; and I'm actually happy with my purchase.

It's so nice ootb that I'll _probably_ do the mod, but not definitely.
I'll compromise a bit of freedom, but not all of it, is what I'm sayin'.
I just wanted the option.

Reply Score: 3

RE[2]: unforgivable
by kovacm on Thu 16th Dec 2010 17:24 UTC in reply to "RE: unforgivable"
kovacm Member since:
2010-12-16

so you receive iPhone for free or you bought it?

EDIT: can I delete my post here? I saw to late that you respond to my question (one above)... ;)

Edited 2010-12-16 17:26 UTC

Reply Score: 1

RE: unforgivable
by TheGZeus on Thu 16th Dec 2010 18:07 UTC in reply to "unforgivable"
TheGZeus Member since:
2010-05-19

I do not see what Mac Cydia will change?!? You have for last 3 decades third party application that modify Mac OS. So what will Mac Cydia change?

Automatic updating and dependency resolution.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Package_management_system

PS,
Did you just say "...NOT!"?
Are you wearing Zubaz?
Do you have a mullet?

I'm sorry, but... wow.

EDIT: PPS,
Yes, I know that's not a real apology. I'm not really sorry.
I see a joke to be said, and I say it.

Edited 2010-12-16 18:08 UTC

Reply Score: 2

RE: unforgivable
by lucas_maximus on Fri 17th Dec 2010 13:27 UTC in reply to "unforgivable"
lucas_maximus Member since:
2009-08-18

lol! yes, yes... Windows GUI is so much better that Mac OS X... not!


Some people really like the Windows UI, myself included. I really love the Windows 7 UI. It is subjective.

Edited 2010-12-17 13:27 UTC

Reply Score: 1