Linked by snydeq on Fri 17th Dec 2010 22:32 UTC
Ubuntu, Kubuntu, Xubuntu InfoWorld's Savio Rodrigues sees 2010 as a watershed year for Ubuntu, one that could herald meaningful enterprise interest in the OS, thanks to a rising tide of developers - and deployment servers - adopting the OS. "As with many recent trends in the IT industry, developers become ambassadors for products they enjoy using and have quickly become an early indicator for enterprise technology usage in the future. In a seemingly perfect storm, Ubuntu is benefiting from strong developer usage, and the fact that developers are increasingly selecting Amazon's EC2 cloud platform bodes well for continued Ubuntu success on EC2," Rodrigues writes, noting that Ubuntu has surpassed Red Hat usage on deployment servers as well. "As that occurs, IT decision makers will need to consider or reconsider Ubuntu for usage within the enterprise. Rest assured that Red Hat won't sit idly by during these discussions."
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Comment by flanque
by flanque on Sat 18th Dec 2010 01:31 UTC
flanque
Member since:
2005-12-15

*snore*

Year on year it's the year of Linux on the desktop and year on year it just doesn't seem to crack that nut in any meaningful way.

Reply Score: 1

RE: Comment by flanque
by dylansmrjones on Sat 18th Dec 2010 03:02 UTC in reply to "Comment by flanque"
dylansmrjones Member since:
2005-10-02

It cracked 'the nut' some years ago - people just didn't realize it when it happened.

Besides that it's GNU/Linux when we're talking the usual OS stack. Systems not using the GNU userland is obviously not GNU/Linux.*

When it comes to netbooks and smartphones GNU/Linux and Linux have already taken off very well. Particularly smartphones is an area where MS are way behind. On the desktop Linux' main area is Europe (at least when considering 1st and 2nd world countries). The situation in USA may be very different.

*This is something RMS and Linus Torvalds agree on fulfully and with zero disagreement. 'GNU/Linux' for the system, and 'Linux' for the kernel.

Reply Score: 2

RE[2]: Comment by flanque
by jbauer on Sat 18th Dec 2010 09:51 UTC in reply to "RE: Comment by flanque"
jbauer Member since:
2005-07-06

It cracked 'the nut' some years ago - people just didn't realize it when it happened.


Yeah, about the same time Steam was released for Linux. It's just that we don't know it yet.

Reply Score: 2

RE[2]: Comment by flanque
by flanque on Sat 18th Dec 2010 10:27 UTC in reply to "RE: Comment by flanque"
flanque Member since:
2005-12-15

It cracked 'the nut' some years ago - people just didn't realize it when it happened.

I suspect they picked up the wrong nut to crack then.

Reply Score: 3

RE[2]: Comment by flanque
by westlake on Sat 18th Dec 2010 13:06 UTC in reply to "RE: Comment by flanque"
westlake Member since:
2010-01-07

It cracked 'the nut' some years ago - people just didn't realize it when it happened.

On the desktop Linux' main area is Europe (at least when considering 1st and 2nd world countries).


StatCounter has a useful global breakdown by region and country.

You can begin here:

http://gs.statcounter.com/#os-eu-monthly-200911-201011

and then take a look at the charts for the UK, Germany, France and so on.

This is not a success story. It is a picture of failure on a global scale.

You might also take a look at the European charts for Mobile OS and Mobile vs Desktop.

Reply Score: 3

RE[3]: Comment by flanque
by dylansmrjones on Sat 18th Dec 2010 14:58 UTC in reply to "RE[2]: Comment by flanque"
dylansmrjones Member since:
2005-10-02

Cool. Useless statistics. There is no way to reliably measure OS adoption using web statistics.

Besides that, an adoption of Linux around 30% (in the mobile area) can hardly be considered a failure. Of course this is not in all countries, but nonetheless predominantly in Europe. Of course there are countries with lower adoption rates, but also countries with higher adoption rates. Which is what I wrote.

So thank you for proving me right.

EDIT: You must feel really powerful when you mod down people, right? Nothing like bashing other persons with lies, damned lies and statistics, eh?

Edited 2010-12-18 15:00 UTC

Reply Score: 3

RE[4]: Comment by flanque
by lucas_maximus on Sat 18th Dec 2010 16:38 UTC in reply to "RE[3]: Comment by flanque"
lucas_maximus Member since:
2009-08-18

Cool. Useless statistics. There is no way to reliably measure OS adoption using web statistics.

Besides that, an adoption of Linux around 30% (in the mobile area) can hardly be considered a failure. Of course this is not in all countries, but nonetheless predominantly in Europe. Of course there are countries with lower adoption rates, but also countries with higher adoption rates. Which is what I wrote.

So thank you for proving me right.

EDIT: You must feel really powerful when you mod down people, right? Nothing like bashing other persons with lies, damned lies and statistics, eh?


[sarcasm]Yes because statistics are completely pointless[/sarcasm].

When someone shows you some evidence (while you have shown none) that doesn't fit in with your already entrenched view on the world, you decide you don't like the results, then do what most zealots do and attack the method of collection.

Edited 2010-12-18 16:42 UTC

Reply Score: 2

RE[5]: Comment by flanque
by dylansmrjones on Sat 18th Dec 2010 16:55 UTC in reply to "RE[4]: Comment by flanque"
dylansmrjones Member since:
2005-10-02

Huh?
Entranched world view? No evidence? WTF? Did you read nothing? And evidence of what? Numbers? The stats are already there. Take a look at Ukraine, Denmark etc. in regard to the mobile OS area.

No, statistics are not completely pointless, but they have to be used with proper caution. Particularly when they are known to be flawed (as all statistics are). Web statistics are notoriously flawed, and cannot be used the way some of you are using them. They can at best represent a trend, and that trend is damn clear.

Calling me a zealot is funny. Following threads are hardly your typical GNU/Linux-zealot: http://www.osnews.com/thread?271241
http://www.osnews.com/thread?271248

If I'm a zealot I'm at least not the typical braindead zealot so common on slashdot and such places. Besides that I thought most zealots would attack the messenger, or the opponent, and not the method of collection. Zealots usually aren't that bright.

Reply Score: 2

RE[6]: Comment by flanque
by lucas_maximus on Sat 18th Dec 2010 17:33 UTC in reply to "RE[5]: Comment by flanque"
lucas_maximus Member since:
2009-08-18

Huh?
Entranched world view? No evidence? WTF? Did you read nothing? And evidence of what? Numbers? The stats are already there. Take a look at Ukraine, Denmark etc. in regard to the mobile OS area.


Whether it is or not doesn't really matter in the context of the article.

Your original assertion was that

On the desktop Linux' main area is Europe (at least when considering 1st and 2nd world countries). The situation in USA may be very different.


And then the desktop stats are linked. You ignore this and carry on chatting about mobile then you say this.

They can at best represent a trend, and that trend is damn clear.


And the trends show that for the desktop, Windows 7 usage is increasing, Windows XP & Vista are decreasing, MacOSX is staying the same and Linux is hasn't moved from the bottom.

Edited 2010-12-18 17:35 UTC

Reply Score: 1

RE[7]: Comment by flanque
by dylansmrjones on Sat 18th Dec 2010 17:46 UTC in reply to "RE[6]: Comment by flanque"
dylansmrjones Member since:
2005-10-02

You are twisting my words around and using them with the opposite meaning.

My claim was that Linux on the Desktop was a reality several years. This is merely a matter of technological level and has NOTHING to do with Market Share which will always be near-zero because Linux is free and gratis. My second claim was that Europe was the main area for GNU/Linux desktop. I didn't claim GNU/Linux was larger than Windows in Europe. Just that Europe was an area where GNU/Linux was doing well. And it is. Flawed statistics does not disprove that, no matter how much you try.

Besides that my claims have nothing to do with market share or usage share per se. But rather with usability.

Linux conquered the desktop back in 2003/04 AFAICT.

EDIT: If you read the post you'll see that Westlake asked me to take a look at the mobile area. I did that. I did not switch context. Westlake did. I just answered questions in regard to the mobile are. Besides that the mobile area is very much relevant for the desktop and for the distributed systems running on the net (e.g. the cloud).

Edited 2010-12-18 17:48 UTC

Reply Score: 4

RE[7]: Comment by flanque
by shotsman on Sun 19th Dec 2010 21:14 UTC in reply to "RE[6]: Comment by flanque"
shotsman Member since:
2005-07-22

none of the Fourty of so Linux or Solaris systems I work on would figure in those stats.
They run all the external facing sites of a Billion $ enterprise. However they are all receiving web hits and are not only firewalled but load balanced off a direct connection to the internet.

This is pretty common in Enterprise businesses. We run SAP, Oracle, Websphere App Server etc all on our servers. The OS of choice was Solaris but since Oracle change the rules of the game, we are agressively moving to RHEL.
SAP/R3 would be moving to Linux if it weren't for SAP licensing.
This is not some startup but a Billion $ Business.
Windows in the Enterprise? not in this one thank you very much.
W7 is being de-emphasised on many desktop as well. Run what you want as long as it does the job. Linux, XP or OS/X it don't matter.

Reply Score: 5

RE[4]: Comment by flanque
by flanque on Sat 18th Dec 2010 22:46 UTC in reply to "RE[3]: Comment by flanque"
flanque Member since:
2005-12-15

Cool. Useless statistics. There is no way to reliably measure OS adoption using web statistics.

Besides that, an adoption of Linux around 30% (in the mobile area) can hardly be considered a failure.

Where did you get 30% from?

Reply Score: 2

RE[5]: Comment by flanque
by ricegf on Sun 19th Dec 2010 11:28 UTC in reply to "RE[4]: Comment by flanque"
ricegf Member since:
2007-04-25

Gartner, probably. They charge money for their reports, but they are widely quoted, for example, here:

http://www.linuxinsider.com/rsstory/71213.html?wlc=1289429519&wlc=1...

The actual worldwide 3Q10 sales numbers are #1 Symbian (28.2%) and #2 Android Linux (25.5%), with iOS and Blackberry trailing in third and fourth. The other Linux-based mobile operating systems (Bada, webOS, Maemo, and some other minor variants) aren't mentioned in that particular article, but were around 5% last I checked. Windows was also around 5% and dropping; it will interesting to see if the WinP7 launch (described as "disappointing" in the USA) will make an impact in 4Q10 numbers.

I'm curious - were you unaware that Android is a Linux product, or unaware of its 827% growth rate this year in the mobile space?

Edited 2010-12-19 11:28 UTC

Reply Score: 5

RE[6]: Comment by flanque
by flanque on Sun 19th Dec 2010 11:36 UTC in reply to "RE[5]: Comment by flanque"
flanque Member since:
2005-12-15

Android is not a "Linux product". It has a modified Linux kernel, among many other differences.

The context of my comments were about Linux on the desktop.

Reply Score: 2

RE[7]: Comment by flanque
by ricegf on Sun 19th Dec 2010 13:04 UTC in reply to "RE[6]: Comment by flanque"
ricegf Member since:
2007-04-25

You seem to get lost between "It uses a modified Linux kernel" and "Android is not a Linux product". A Linux product is a product built on Linux technology. Android is. It really is just that simple. (Maybe you meant it's not a Gnu/Linux product? We'd agree there - Android has a custom user land built on Java technology. ;-)

Speaking of remarkable leaps, the thread was:

"[q][q]Besides that, an adoption of Linux around 30% (in the mobile area) can hardly be considered a failure.

Where did you get 30% from?
"
Probably from Gartner.
[/q]
The context of my comments were about Linux on the desktop.
[/q]

Jumping from "30% in the mobile area" to "the context of my comments were about Linux on the desktop" is... well, remarkable. :-D

Reply Score: 4

RE[7]: Comment by flanque
by _txf_ on Sun 19th Dec 2010 18:44 UTC in reply to "RE[6]: Comment by flanque"
_txf_ Member since:
2008-03-17

erm... modified linux kernel is STILL a linux kernel. And when they say modified they mean it has things that the mainline linux kernel did not accept. But it still tracks the mainline linux kernel, patches flow easily between them and it operates in much the same way.

Also...Define "Linux Product". Who makes these mystical products, what are their characteristics?

Edited 2010-12-19 18:48 UTC

Reply Score: 4

RE[3]: Comment by flanque
by Lennie on Sat 18th Dec 2010 16:39 UTC in reply to "RE[2]: Comment by flanque"
Lennie Member since:
2007-09-22

The country with the largest share of Linux users is the Vatican ?: http://gs.statcounter.com/#os-VA-monthly-200911-201011

Reply Score: 2

RE[4]: Comment by flanque
by nt_jerkface on Sat 18th Dec 2010 21:48 UTC in reply to "RE[3]: Comment by flanque"
nt_jerkface Member since:
2009-08-26

It's just some Italian geek who hangs out at a coffee shop there.

Reply Score: 2

RE[5]: Comment by flanque
by Lennie on Sun 19th Dec 2010 21:44 UTC in reply to "RE[4]: Comment by flanque"
Lennie Member since:
2007-09-22

When talking about statistics and Linux users, some are really fun to watch:

Take Norfolk Island, they might just have one or a few users. But they went from Windows XP to Windows Vista and to Linux in just a few months:

http://gs.statcounter.com/#os-NF-daily-20100719-20101218

Reply Score: 3

RE[3]: Comment by flanque
by No it isnt on Mon 20th Dec 2010 14:57 UTC in reply to "RE[2]: Comment by flanque"
No it isnt Member since:
2005-11-14

If you look at the charts for mobile vs Linux, you'll notice that the hugely successful iPad is still not nearly as big as Ubuntu. The iPhone, the most hyped gadget the last few years, is still only slightly bigger than all Linuxes minus Android.

http://stats.wikimedia.org/archive/squid_reports/2010-10/SquidRepor...

Yet some people will claim that the desktop is dead and mobile is the new king. Others will pretend Linux is a dismal failure compared to the same equally small mobile space.

Fact is, though, that Linux is big enough to sustain a healthy developer community, which in turn makes it a usable desktop platform for most purposes. For the rest, you need Photoshop.

Reply Score: 2

RE[4]: Comment by flanque
by jbauer on Mon 20th Dec 2010 18:00 UTC in reply to "RE[3]: Comment by flanque"
jbauer Member since:
2005-07-06

Fact is, though, that Linux is big enough to sustain a healthy developer community, which in turn makes it a usable desktop platform for most purposes. For the rest, you need Photoshop.


So 99% of users need Photoshop. Adobe must be delighted.

Reply Score: 2

RE[5]: Comment by flanque
by No it isnt on Mon 20th Dec 2010 18:29 UTC in reply to "RE[4]: Comment by flanque"
No it isnt Member since:
2005-11-14

Most users' needs can be adequately met with Linux.

Reply Score: 2

RE[6]: Comment by flanque
by jbauer on Mon 20th Dec 2010 19:18 UTC in reply to "RE[5]: Comment by flanque"
jbauer Member since:
2005-07-06

Most users' needs can be adequately met with Linux.


Hence the huge success that Linux enjoyed on netbooks... :-)

Reply Score: 2

RE[7]: Comment by flanque
by No it isnt on Mon 20th Dec 2010 22:27 UTC in reply to "RE[6]: Comment by flanque"
No it isnt Member since:
2005-11-14

Irrelevant. The fact that most people can use something doesn't mean they will. People will stick to the brand name they know, and more people know Windows. Even Apple hasn't enjoyed much of a rise in market share, despite getting more PR than practically everyone else put together.

The only thing relevant to Linux's success is that it's usable. 10 years or so ago, it wasn't, as IE and its mangled HTML dominated the web; after Mozilla and OpenOffice took off, and libdcss took care of DVD decryption, Linux has been pretty much on par with Windows and Mac OS for everything except specialist applications like Photoshop. Whining about market share, for me, as a user, is like crying into my beer for it being less popular than the inferior Budweiser. I'd rather just enjoy my drink.

Reply Score: 2

RE[7]: Comment by flanque
by lemur2 on Tue 21st Dec 2010 03:33 UTC in reply to "RE[6]: Comment by flanque"
lemur2 Member since:
2007-02-17

"Most users' needs can be adequately met with Linux.
Hence the huge success that Linux enjoyed on netbooks... :-) "

Linux has 33% share (worldwide) of netbooks.

Reply Score: 2

RE[3]: Comment by flanque
by lemur2 on Tue 21st Dec 2010 03:11 UTC in reply to "RE[2]: Comment by flanque"
lemur2 Member since:
2007-02-17

"It cracked 'the nut' some years ago - people just didn't realize it when it happened. On the desktop Linux' main area is Europe (at least when considering 1st and 2nd world countries).
StatCounter has a useful global breakdown by region and country. You can begin here: http://gs.statcounter.com/#os-eu-monthly-200911-201011 and then take a look at the charts for the UK, Germany, France and so on. This is not a success story. It is a picture of failure on a global scale. You might also take a look at the European charts for Mobile OS and Mobile vs Desktop. "

I'll see your satcounter, and raise you a w3schools.

http://www.w3schools.com/browsers/browsers_os.asp

5% finally, at Nov 2011.

There is a lot of inertia to overcome here, especially since ordinary consumers are not allowed to buy GNU/Linux systems in stores. Having said that, slowly perhaps the rules excluding Linux from competing are beginning to change:

http://www.linuxinsider.com/story/71481.html

Really, the thing to be overcome is a lack of end user familiarity with Linux desktop applications. Just because Linux desktop applications are not exactly the same as more familiar equivalents on Windows, by no means are the Linux desktop applications inferior. The problem is that most people are not aware of this.

http://jeffhoogland.blogspot.com/2010/12/user-familiarity-software-...
User Familiarity != Software Superiority
Most anyone that has really used Linux, on the desktop, in the last few years knows that it is ready for the average user. The same is true for a number of other open source projects. Many FOSS projects are on-par with (or better than) their closed source counter parts when it comes to the number of features and functionality.

Reply Score: 2

RE: Comment by flanque
by Gone fishing on Sat 18th Dec 2010 07:12 UTC in reply to "Comment by flanque"
Gone fishing Member since:
2006-02-22

Did you read the article?

I agree with dylansmrjones the year of the Linux desktops already happened. Several Linux distros produce desktops that are more than usable, many Windows users would be better off with these distros.

However, the article brings up potential issues between Canonical and Redhat. I'd like to see them both strong. I'm interested in the way Ubuntu's going with Unity, Wayland etc looks like innovation to me. Nevertheless Redhat's a more major contributor Linux development.

Reply Score: 4

RE[2]: Comment by flanque
by d.marcu on Sat 18th Dec 2010 10:12 UTC in reply to "RE: Comment by flanque"
d.marcu Member since:
2009-12-27

Issues? i don't think so. The market is big enough for both and working together would benefit them more than rivalry.

Reply Score: 1

RE[3]: Comment by flanque
by Gone fishing on Sat 18th Dec 2010 13:14 UTC in reply to "RE[2]: Comment by flanque"
Gone fishing Member since:
2006-02-22

I said potential issues.

I agree in a large, even expanding market there should be enough space for both companies to find their niche and cooperation would be to the benefit of all.

However thats not to say it will go that way people have egos,can be foolish and can be sectarian etc etc.

Edited 2010-12-18 13:19 UTC

Reply Score: 2

RE: Comment by flanque
by vivainio on Sat 18th Dec 2010 21:12 UTC in reply to "Comment by flanque"
vivainio Member since:
2008-12-26

Year on year it's the year of Linux on the desktop and year on year it just doesn't seem to crack that nut in any meaningful way.


Was there an article about Linux on desktop somewhere?

Reply Score: 5

RE: Comment by flanque
by dizzey on Sun 19th Dec 2010 06:09 UTC in reply to "Comment by flanque"
dizzey Member since:
2005-10-15

Hey did you even read the article or the summary.
*hint* it does not talk about the year of the linux desktop.

Reply Score: 4

RE: Comment by flanque
by Soulbender on Sun 19th Dec 2010 08:25 UTC in reply to "Comment by flanque"
Soulbender Member since:
2005-08-18

Still doing better than "the year of Windows in the datacenter" though.

Reply Score: 3

RHEL/CENT/Oracle should be combined
by nt_jerkface on Sat 18th Dec 2010 22:02 UTC
nt_jerkface
Member since:
2009-08-26

if operating systems are being compared. The difference is really in the name and support contract.

Reply Score: 2

ubuntu to save the day, NOT!
by TechGeek on Sat 18th Dec 2010 23:06 UTC
TechGeek
Member since:
2006-01-14

As for the stats that someone posted to earlier, those stats are based on desktop usage. This was an article about servers. If you really want some interesting stats, check out the number of web servers running on each OS type. Windows isn't the only game in town.

As for competition with Red Hat, I will say what I have said before. There is NO development coming out of Canonical. Compared to what Red Hat produces its not even on the map. Also remember that Canonical is only interested in monetizing Ubuntu. (Mark's words not mine) And while Ubuntu might be the shiny new toy everyone wants to begin with, when the toy breaks it isn't Canonical that's going to be able to fix it. Its Red Hat. You better hope nothing bad happens to Red Hat, or the damage to the platform could be immense.

Reply Score: 6

RE: ubuntu to save the day, NOT!
by spinnekopje on Sun 19th Dec 2010 19:31 UTC in reply to "ubuntu to save the day, NOT!"
spinnekopje Member since:
2008-11-29

There is NO development coming out of Canonical. Compared to what Red Hat produces its not even on the map.


That is something that doesn't matter at all for a company when they compare the products. They care about reliability, support, ..

I also don't care about it for my personal use, I'm interested in the user experience and how easily I can find solutions for the problems I encounter.

Reply Score: 1

RE[2]: ubuntu to save the day, NOT!
by jbauer on Sun 19th Dec 2010 20:54 UTC in reply to "RE: ubuntu to save the day, NOT!"
jbauer Member since:
2005-07-06

That is something that doesn't matter at all for a company when they compare the products. They care about reliability, support, ..


... which you're not gonna get from a company like Canonical. Giving away CDs and hype can only take you so far.

Reply Score: 4

spinnekopje Member since:
2008-11-29

... which you're not gonna get from a company like Canonical. Giving away CDs and hype can only take you so far.


I don't know whether you know about this:
http://www.canonical.com/enterprise-services/ubuntu-advantage/suppo...

I can't tell you how good or bad the support is, but it is there for customers who like to pay for it.

Reply Score: 1

segedunum Member since:
2005-07-06

That is something that doesn't matter at all for a company when they compare the products. They care about reliability, support, ..

The reliability and support comes from people who write the software and know exactly how it works. Canonical has had many such disasters over the years, such as when they didn't know how CUPs worked.

Canonical has none of those people. I just wonder what those employees there do.......

Edited 2010-12-21 12:46 UTC

Reply Score: 2

It should matter to any Linux user
by NutMotion on Sun 19th Dec 2010 21:20 UTC
NutMotion
Member since:
2010-12-19

I second the previous observation by GoneFishing, TechGeek and others. I think the seeming lack of involvement by Canonical in Linux projects should really matter to Linux users.

Here's an interesting post (though somewhat outdated, 2008) that gives a ranking of contributors involved in the development of 3 major open source projects, Linux kernel, gcc and Xorg: http://www.kroah.com/log/linux/lpc_2008_keynote.html

I've mostly been under Ubuntu myself, since I've switched to Linux. I like the OS, but I'm pondering switching to a distrib whose company gives back more to the Linux community. Red Hat or Novell are the 2 alternatives that stand out here (see the 2010 Linux Foundation report at http://www.linuxfoundation.org/docs/lf_linux_kernel_development_201...)

==
As to the users who think they don't care, let's put it another way: whatever Linux distribution you're using, you don't want major contributors to go out of business, or stop participating in the effort. Therefore, it does make sense to support them.

Edited 2010-12-19 21:21 UTC

Reply Score: 2

Poor article.
by spiderman on Mon 20th Dec 2010 11:21 UTC
spiderman
Member since:
2008-10-23

The article is empty of substance. Talking about server deployment and linking that to developers desktop is a bit weird. Ubuntu is a desktop oriented distro. Developers know that. It does not mean administrators use Ubuntu on the server!
Also the Amazon EC2 statistics are completely unrelated to server usage. Those are about virtual machines. The server actually serving those virtual machines are not mentioned. Many of those may not even be serving anything. They may be test machines used by developers indeed.
The Infoworld page is also crippled by adverts. The actual article only covers 25% of the page and it is spread over 2 pages when the content could fit in one paragraph.
The only thing interesting about that is the trolling in OSNews comment section, that is not related to the article but it's fun anyway.

Reply Score: 3

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Reply Score: 1