Linked by Thom Holwerda on Wed 26th Jan 2011 23:29 UTC, submitted by zegenie
KDE Before we get underway: I'm sorry, we don't have enough headline space to write 'KDE Releases Development Platform, Applications and Plasma Workspaces 4.6.0'. Then again, do any non-anal people every refer to it that way? No? I thought so. In any case, there's a new KDE version out with lots of new features, bug fixes, and performance enhancements.
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Archlinux
by spectator on Thu 27th Jan 2011 00:16 UTC
spectator
Member since:
2006-02-27

Well, we've got it already. ;)

And thanks to people managing kde-unstable repository, many of us are already accustomed to lots of new features. Maybe it spoils the joy on the release day, but I don't mean to complain in any way. ;)

Reply Score: 2

RE: Archlinux
by leech on Thu 27th Jan 2011 01:19 UTC in reply to "Archlinux"
leech Member since:
2006-01-10

Ha, I was just thinking "sweet, KDE 4.6 is out!" because I started doing updates... but it looks like the mirrors are still trying to catch up.

D'oh!

Reply Score: 4

RE[2]: Archlinux
by lemur2 on Thu 27th Jan 2011 05:34 UTC in reply to "RE: Archlinux"
lemur2 Member since:
2007-02-17

Ha, I was just thinking "sweet, KDE 4.6 is out!" because I started doing updates... but it looks like the mirrors are still trying to catch up. D'oh!


I'd hold off for a while anyway, at least until the Arch mirrors can all catch up with the apparently-missing "soprano-2.5.63" package.

https://bbs.archlinux.org/viewtopic.php?id=112438

Reply Score: 2

RE[3]: Archlinux
by lemur2 on Thu 27th Jan 2011 08:21 UTC in reply to "RE[2]: Archlinux"
lemur2 Member since:
2007-02-17

"Ha, I was just thinking "sweet, KDE 4.6 is out!" because I started doing updates... but it looks like the mirrors are still trying to catch up. D'oh!


I'd hold off for a while anyway, at least until the Arch mirrors can all catch up with the apparently-missing "soprano-2.5.63" package.

https://bbs.archlinux.org/viewtopic.php?id=112438
"

It appears to be OK now, at least for the mirror I use.

Reply Score: 2

Names
by Delgarde on Thu 27th Jan 2011 00:31 UTC
Delgarde
Member since:
2008-08-19

Just a wild guess, but do you happen to have some dislike of KDE's new naming system? ;)

Reply Score: 8

Other notable improvements
by lemur2 on Thu 27th Jan 2011 01:00 UTC
lemur2
Member since:
2007-02-17

Removal of dependency on HAL. HAL is no longer required.

Improvements in the Bluetooth stack. Long overdue.

Phonon support for pulseaudio. Xine is no longer supported as a backend for Phonon, it is recommended to use either gstreamer or VLC backends instead.

Changes to the Oxygen icon theme and better integration of applications not built on the KDE Platform thanks to a completely rewritten Oxygen GTK theme.

http://www.kde.org/announcements/4.6/screenshots/46-w06.png

There have been some improvements in KDE accessability, although there is apparently still no built-in support for speech-to-text.

Edited 2011-01-27 01:07 UTC

Reply Score: 10

RE: Other notable improvements
by MamiyaOtaru on Thu 27th Jan 2011 07:04 UTC in reply to "Other notable improvements"
MamiyaOtaru Member since:
2005-11-11

was something wrong with xine?

Reply Score: 3

RE[2]: Other notable improvements
by lemur2 on Thu 27th Jan 2011 08:14 UTC in reply to "RE: Other notable improvements"
lemur2 Member since:
2007-02-17

was something wrong with xine?


I believe that it now has a similar problem as the KDE 3.x.x audio backend aRts had ... it is no longer actively developed.

http://www.arts-project.org/gen/newsarchive/news_2000.html#20
As main author of aRts, having after some time finally come to the conclusion that I won't continue to work on the project, I think its better to announce this publically than to walk away silently.


http://www.xine-project.org/home

Fortunately, this is the exact problem that Phonon was meant to overcome. Whereas the defunct state of aRts is an ongoing problem for KDE 3.x.x, the development state of Xine is not a problem at all for KDE 4.x.x.

Reply Score: 6

MamiyaOtaru Member since:
2005-11-11

oh I totally get the purpose of Phonon. Arts was a disaster. I just wasn't aware Xine had stagnated

Reply Score: 3

RE: Other notable improvements
by Carewolf on Thu 27th Jan 2011 08:47 UTC in reply to "Other notable improvements"
Carewolf Member since:
2005-09-08

Xine still works fine as a backend for phonon. I couldn't get the GStreamer backend to play anything but MP3, and I couldn't get the VLC backend to not crash, so I personally still using the xine-backend. It works fine.

Reply Score: 5

RE[2]: Other notable improvements
by lemur2 on Thu 27th Jan 2011 09:37 UTC in reply to "RE: Other notable improvements"
lemur2 Member since:
2007-02-17

Xine still works fine as a backend for phonon. I couldn't get the GStreamer backend to play anything but MP3, and I couldn't get the VLC backend to not crash, so I personally still using the xine-backend. It works fine.


I'm running Arch Linux right now, and I am still in the process of downloading the update to KDE 4.6, so the version that I am running right now is still 4.5.5. There are two backends for Phonon installed, gstreamer or VLC. Either one works absolutely fine.

I have gstreamer selected as the first preference right now. I chose that because it gives best commonality with GNOME/GTK applications. I can run either a GNOME/GTK application, or a KDE/Phonon application, and I do not have to load any new audio libraries just for that application.

Edited 2011-01-27 09:39 UTC

Reply Score: 3

RE[3]: Other notable improvements
by _xmv on Thu 27th Jan 2011 10:44 UTC in reply to "RE[2]: Other notable improvements"
_xmv Member since:
2008-12-09

everyone has it's own experience. i have archlinux+kde 4.5.5, well, surprise surprise, gstreamer works for some sounds/file formats but in general does not, i didnt take the time to investigate because i just can't be bothered fixing every little thing :p
xine seems fine

Reply Score: 2

TheGZeus Member since:
2010-05-19

Do you have all the gstreamer codecs installed?
That's something that annoys me about gstreamer, everything is a plugin, and you have to install everything manually.

Reply Score: 2

RE[2]: Other notable improvements
by Soulbender on Thu 27th Jan 2011 14:44 UTC in reply to "RE: Other notable improvements"
Soulbender Member since:
2005-08-18

I for one is happy about the gstreamer and vlc backends since xine's FLAC playback is broken.

Reply Score: 2

RE[2]: Other notable improvements
by renox on Thu 27th Jan 2011 17:08 UTC in reply to "RE: Other notable improvements"
renox Member since:
2005-07-06

I don't know if Xine is working or not, but I'm really happy with the fact that they created Photon: on the three audio library that you have, two are malfunctionning!!

Which means (non exclusively) that either
- you're really on the bleeding edge / you make a lot of changes on your distrib
- the distrib you use suck
- audio on Linux is still in an immature state..

Reply Score: 2

vivainio Member since:
2008-12-26

I don't know if Xine is working or not, but I'm really happy with the fact that they created Photon: on the three audio library that you have, two are malfunctionning!!


Phonon is actually sort of deprecated in favor of QtMultimediaKit.

Reply Score: 2

pgquiles Member since:
2006-07-16

No, it's not.

On the contrary: everybody wonders why QtMultimedia is part of Qt, or even exists.

The alleged limitations in Phonon have been demonstrated not to be limitations, and in fact they have been or are being implemented since the new Phonon developers (KDE people, Nokia is no longer actively involved) took over maintenance.

Reply Score: 3

RE[4]: Other notable improvements
by sj87 on Fri 28th Jan 2011 06:06 UTC in reply to "RE[3]: Other notable improvements"
sj87 Member since:
2007-12-16

Phonon is actually sort of deprecated in favor of QtMultimediaKit.


Phonon was created by the KDE crew, then merged into the Qt itself. Now the Qt devs have deprecated the Phonon parts in Qt. That won't mean KDE would deprecate it aswell.

And they're not going to do that in KDE4's era.

Reply Score: 2

vivainio Member since:
2008-12-26


Phonon was created by the KDE crew, then merged into the Qt itself. Now the Qt devs have deprecated the Phonon parts in Qt. That won't mean KDE would deprecate it aswell.


Right, Phonon is mostly deprecated on Nokia platforms. I don't see a particular reason why KDE couldn't follow suit though - QtMMKit uses gstreamer on Linux, and Nokia has a pretty strong incentive in MeeGo to keep it in good shape.

Reply Score: 2

Carewolf Member since:
2005-09-08

Except that it doesn't actually works. That is the problem with reinventing the wheel, nobody realize that the reason the old implmentations had some flaws was because the problem is hard not because everything Not-Invented-Here is stupid.

Reply Score: 2

vivainio Member since:
2008-12-26

Except that it doesn't actually works.


Would you be interested in providing the details of why QtMMKit doesn't work for you? We can take it offline if you don't want to do it here in the public forum, we are very interested in external feedback.

Reply Score: 2

RE: Other notable improvements
by sj87 on Thu 27th Jan 2011 13:08 UTC in reply to "Other notable improvements"
sj87 Member since:
2007-12-16

Phonon support for pulseaudio. Xine is no longer supported as a backend for Phonon, it is recommended to use either gstreamer or VLC backends instead.


Well this is interesting. It's not long since the Gstreamer backend was supposedly killed in favour of Xine. It was even removed from the Arch Linux version of KDE which I believe to be close to vanilla.

Btw, Gstreamer backend is still the same version - 0.1 - as it was back then, in 2009 I believe.

Edit: seems like they upped the version number to match Phonon's 4.4.4 for KDE 4.6.

Edited 2011-01-27 13:09 UTC

Reply Score: 3

RE: Other notable improvements
by kaiwai on Thu 27th Jan 2011 17:48 UTC in reply to "Other notable improvements"
kaiwai Member since:
2005-07-06

Good to hear that HAL has finally been removed - it seems that every time I had an issue with Linux it could always be traced back to HAL. Hopefully the move away from HAL should also correspond to a decline in power usage given that there will no longer be a daemon sitting in the background constant polling for devices.

Any word on the NetworkManager/KDE integration? I remember there was some work being done on a Plasma front end but I haven't kept up on the current status of the project. Any word on its completion? I don't want to go out trying to find source code off a SVN to compile when it would be easier to use a stable package that is feature complete rather than in a state of flux.

Reply Score: 2

RE[2]: Other notable improvements
by Soulbender on Thu 27th Jan 2011 18:33 UTC in reply to "RE: Other notable improvements"
Soulbender Member since:
2005-08-18

knetworkmanager has been function well since Kubuntu 10.04/KDE 4.5.x. I've used it for wired, wireless, mobile broadband and openvpn without any problems.

Edited 2011-01-27 18:35 UTC

Reply Score: 5

RE[3]: Other notable improvements
by kaiwai on Thu 27th Jan 2011 21:01 UTC in reply to "RE[2]: Other notable improvements"
kaiwai Member since:
2005-07-06

knetworkmanager has been function well since Kubuntu 10.04/KDE 4.5.x. I've used it for wired, wireless, mobile broadband and openvpn without any problems.


But I've found that these are snapshots not actual stable releases; OpenSuSE and a few others have been shipping with it but they aren't a stable version, a 1.0 release of feature completeness and relative stability.

Reply Score: 2

Soulbender Member since:
2005-08-18

Ah, I see. Yeah, I think they're still snapshot releases.

Reply Score: 2

or...
by Soulbender on Thu 27th Jan 2011 01:51 UTC
Soulbender
Member since:
2005-08-18

you could just write "KDE SC". You know, the official name that isn't long at all.

Reply Score: 12

RE: or...
by Elv13 on Thu 27th Jan 2011 04:14 UTC in reply to "or..."
Elv13 Member since:
2006-06-12

Yea, there is nothing wrong with the naming. KDE is trying to move from a Desktop environement to a Mozilla like entity while keeping the KDE brand. With more and more focus on mobile and tablet, the Desktop part is a lesser and lesser important part of KDE. It is not even a separated part of KDE anymore, it is just a placement layout for Plasmoids.

Reply Score: 9

RE[2]: or...
by evert on Thu 27th Jan 2011 08:46 UTC in reply to "RE: or..."
evert Member since:
2005-07-06

So, don't call it "KDE desktop". Just call it KDE ;-)

Reply Score: 2

RE: or...
by kolmyo on Thu 27th Jan 2011 10:02 UTC in reply to "or..."
kolmyo Member since:
2005-07-11

Seeing that Thom has had no problem getting it right in earlier posts I just can't take his "criticism" seriously. And dividing release notes in related categories makes it harder to read them? Boy, I'd much rather read a four page block of text without any kind of categorizing. Constructive criticism is always a good thing, pointless bashing of software for made up reasons, however, is not.

Reply Score: 7

RE: or...
by nt_jerkface on Thu 27th Jan 2011 16:44 UTC in reply to "or..."
nt_jerkface Member since:
2009-08-26

I'll take who gives a shit for $500 Alex.

Reply Score: 3

RE[2]: or...
by Soulbender on Thu 27th Jan 2011 16:47 UTC in reply to "RE: or..."
Soulbender Member since:
2005-08-18

"Who are Thom and nt_jerkface"

Reply Score: 3

RE[3]: or...
by nt_jerkface on Thu 27th Jan 2011 17:52 UTC in reply to "RE[2]: or..."
nt_jerkface Member since:
2009-08-26

No I'm sorry that is the question to a previous answer:

These two OSNews posters are unique in that they do not suffer from sexual angst and do not obsess over trivial details.

Reply Score: 1

RE[4]: or...
by Thom_Holwerda on Thu 27th Jan 2011 17:54 UTC in reply to "RE[3]: or..."
Thom_Holwerda Member since:
2005-06-29

No I'm sorry that is the question to a previous answer:

These two OSNews posters are unique in that they do not suffer from sexual angst and do not obsess over trivial details.


What?

Reply Score: 1

RE[4]: or...
by Soulbender on Thu 27th Jan 2011 18:12 UTC in reply to "RE[3]: or..."
Soulbender Member since:
2005-08-18

That must be why you bothered posting and why Thom had to rant about it. Right.

Reply Score: 2

RE[5]: or...
by nt_jerkface on Thu 27th Jan 2011 18:25 UTC in reply to "RE[4]: or..."
nt_jerkface Member since:
2009-08-26

I come here for news and entertainment, mainstream tv really bores me.

I also don't get upset by what is clearly an editorial and not a formal news report, especially when it has been prefaced as such:
This sounds like a rant, and it is - for the love of Fiona, KDE, quit with this nonsense already.

Reply Score: 2

Cheer up love
by dacresni on Thu 27th Jan 2011 03:25 UTC
dacresni
Member since:
2009-08-26

Relax, we sympathize.
Also,

you could just write "KDE SC". You know, the official name that isn't long at all.

Reply Score: 3

Comment by Luminair
by Luminair on Thu 27th Jan 2011 03:36 UTC
Luminair
Member since:
2007-03-30

What sort of redesigned GUIs exist for this? Are there any improved, competing skins for instance? This all still looks like programmer art to me.

Reply Score: 2

RE: Comment by Luminair
by lemur2 on Thu 27th Jan 2011 04:26 UTC in reply to "Comment by Luminair"
lemur2 Member since:
2007-02-17

What sort of redesigned GUIs exist for this? Are there any improved, competing skins for instance? This all still looks like programmer art to me.


http://kde-look.org/index.php?xcontentmode=9

http://kde-look.org/index.php?xcontentmode=76

You don't have to navigate to the website, as any of these can be installed directly from the desktop settings dialog box. There are separate themes for the desktop itself (Plasma themes) and the windows/widgets.

For good integration with GTK applications, be sure to choose a theme that explicitly claims such integration as a feature.

PS: Oxygen Gtk is the new solution for KDE 4.6
http://kde-look.org/content/show.php/Oxygen+Gtk?content=136216

Edited 2011-01-27 04:39 UTC

Reply Score: 6

Sad panda
by zegenie on Thu 27th Jan 2011 07:51 UTC
zegenie
Member since:
2005-12-31

Before we get underway: I'm sorry, we don't have enough headline space to write 'KDE Releases Development Platform, Applications and Plasma Workspaces 4.6.0'.


Aww, that would've been an awesome headline. I agree with the other posters about just calling it by its real name, though, "KDE SC 4.6" - not hard at all. I'll remember to do the headline work for you next time I submit news.

Reply Score: 4

opinions
by noobsaibot on Thu 27th Jan 2011 08:06 UTC
noobsaibot
Member since:
2010-01-09

please thom, don't make it sound as if your opinion is representative for all the peeps out there. it is not!

there's a rationale behind the decision which was explained time and time again. either you're just trolling, being ignorant, or you just don't get it.

which is it?

Reply Score: 9

RE: opinions
by Thom_Holwerda on Thu 27th Jan 2011 08:23 UTC in reply to "opinions"
Thom_Holwerda Member since:
2005-06-29

I think your humour detector is broken.

Don't take everything so seriously ;) .

Reply Score: 1

RE[2]: opinions
by Morgan on Thu 27th Jan 2011 09:10 UTC in reply to "RE: opinions"
Morgan Member since:
2005-06-29

Looks like there wasn't enough "wink wink nudge nudge" in your article. Maybe even a few ;) 's would help.

;)

Reply Score: 6

RE[3]: opinions
by nt_jerkface on Thu 27th Jan 2011 17:27 UTC in reply to "RE[2]: opinions"
nt_jerkface Member since:
2009-08-26

I guess there was no indication that it was editorial opinion, other than this clear and direct statement:

This sounds like a rant, and it is - for the love of Fiona, KDE, quit with this nonsense already.

Reply Score: 3

RE[4]: opinions
by phoenix on Fri 28th Jan 2011 00:17 UTC in reply to "RE[3]: opinions"
phoenix Member since:
2005-07-11

Starting with that line would have saved a lot of energy on everyone's part. Putting it at the end two paragraphs, and outside of the summary? Cheap journalism aiming for clicks.

Reply Score: 2

RE[2]: opinions
by noobsaibot on Thu 27th Jan 2011 10:20 UTC in reply to "RE: opinions"
noobsaibot Member since:
2010-01-09

i'm sorry then ... i thought you're just being sensitive and pissed off ... being sick and all.

Reply Score: 2

RE[2]: opinions
by phoenix on Thu 27th Jan 2011 17:01 UTC in reply to "RE: opinions"
phoenix Member since:
2005-07-11

I think your humour detector is broken.


Your humour writer is in serious need of an overhaul, as there is nothing even close to "funny" or "humourous" in the first two paragraphs of the story. In fact, there's nothing but whining, wailing, and insults in there.

If you think those were "funny", perhaps you should have your "humour detector" looked at.

Reply Score: 7

RE: opinions
by Bill Shooter of Bul on Thu 27th Jan 2011 16:02 UTC in reply to "opinions"
Bill Shooter of Bul Member since:
2006-07-14

Or, it was possible he just didn't agree. Too often people mistake disagreements for ignorance.

For the record, I love KDE, but I also dislike with the new naming scheme.

Edited 2011-01-27 16:02 UTC

Reply Score: 2

KDE Software Compilation 4.6
by torturedutopian on Thu 27th Jan 2011 10:01 UTC
torturedutopian
Member since:
2010-04-24

I think you may just refer to the whole KDE as KDE SC 4.6.

Reply Score: 3

v Too bad
by priit on Thu 27th Jan 2011 16:16 UTC
RE: Too bad
by nunopinheiro on Thu 27th Jan 2011 16:55 UTC in reply to "Too bad"
nunopinheiro Member since:
2007-10-07

As the lead designer in Oxygen KDE's design platform, Can I know were do you base your absolute statement???
Note that I'm not saying its perfect its not I know that all to well but... I wonder were do you see that? and in comparison to what?
And is it everything? Is it the icons you don't like? or the wallpaper,,,, maybe its the toolkit? Really I would like to know, Specially I would like to know how come you missed the "IMO" part.

Reply Score: 4

RE[2]: Too bad
by nt_jerkface on Thu 27th Jan 2011 17:14 UTC in reply to "RE: Too bad"
nt_jerkface Member since:
2009-08-26

I wouldn't take him too seriously, you can't please everyone and you don't know his underlying motivation.

Poll the public and they would easily pick KDE over Gnome as the modern desktop.

Reply Score: 5

RE[3]: Too bad
by mgl.branco on Thu 27th Jan 2011 18:21 UTC in reply to "RE[2]: Too bad"
mgl.branco Member since:
2009-07-22

I wouldn't take him too seriously, you can't please everyone and you don't know his underlying motivation.


Agree. Just for the record, I adore Oxygen!. It looks current, fresh and different.

Reply Score: 3

RE[2]: Too bad
by lucas_maximus on Thu 27th Jan 2011 17:25 UTC in reply to "RE: Too bad"
lucas_maximus Member since:
2009-08-18

If you really are, the problem is that many things don't look "right" ... constrast is all over the shop.

Also the task bar items IMO are really hard to read semi-transparent black on a dark background, also the inner glow on the taskbar item's words just looks tacky IMO.

The padding isn't right on the task bar items either.

Edited 2011-01-27 17:26 UTC

Reply Score: 2

RE[3]: Too bad
by nunopinheiro on Thu 27th Jan 2011 17:40 UTC in reply to "RE[2]: Too bad"
nunopinheiro Member since:
2007-10-07

Not sure you noticed that there is a under blur of the fonts in reversed color to ensure there is enough contrast.... in relation to any background not just dark ones, still it may vary depending on your font defaults, KDE as no saying on that...
The padding might need some work, but then again its a detail and it as some technical limitations, not sure its that bad...
The part of the glow being tacky, I have no idea what you are talking about....as I don't know what you mean with "contrast is all over the shop" to much to little? what?
Any way unlike most design platforms in OSS, Oxygen is completely open to any one that wants to help just drop by IRC or send me an email with ideas sketches mocks on how to help the overall design of KDE, Oxygen is a completely volunteer based design platform so all help is welcome.

Reply Score: 3

RE[4]: Too bad
by priit on Thu 27th Jan 2011 19:02 UTC in reply to "RE[3]: Too bad"
priit Member since:
2005-07-06

Sorry, missed the IM(H)O part and wasn't really trying to hurt anybody's feelings.

But let's see:
http://www.kde.org/announcements/4.6/screenshots/46-w09.png

Taskbar basically has no padding at all. Also I don't see any reason why the text should glow other than that it seems to be the "norm", e.g

http://www.kde.org/workspaces/plasmadesktop/screenshots/general-des...

Blue glow? Why? Also bevels (active icons in the second screenshot for example) make the design look too busy and remind me more of CDE.

http://www.kde.org/workspaces/plasmanetbook/screenshots/netbook.png

What the glow is going on? In conclusion - KDE's desktop is very busy, some things don't look right (take the add filter button in the second screenshot, it doesn't look right there, it's raised and just pasted on the bar). Less graphical details and cleaner interface would be my suggestion. But hey, really, you can't please everyone.

If you're looking for good samples, have a look at KDE 3.5 screenshot - http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/1/1d/Kde-3.5.6-es.png
Even though it has its own shortcomings, it's much cleaner than the current design.

Reply Score: 1

RE[5]: Too bad
by nunopinheiro on Thu 27th Jan 2011 19:25 UTC in reply to "RE[4]: Too bad"
nunopinheiro Member since:
2007-10-07

to the no pading in first screnshot and because I made it some clarification....
Actually that secrenshot is wrong...Since i dont have a screen that small I had to chage my screens resolution, and unintentionally made the pannel smaller than it is. Thats what cosing the vertical padding issue, well its not terrible and the fact that you can scale the pannel to any size i a plus IMO...

Blue glow for active windows... btw that a screnshot from a previous KDE, its an unobstructive way to say a window is the active one.
the icon selection its not active but selected (its not that common), what do you propose instead???...

And finally you go and get something that is completely different, the netbook layout (also from a previous iteration)... that is pretty hard to judge unless you are using it beeing that all of those elements are animated.
Still the glow on fonts is to make sure its was enough contrast in them against any background... (at the time we did not had blur effect so we need to make sure we have contrast enough specially on the cheep poor quality screens that are sold in some netbooks.

But I will agree with you that the second screenshot is clutered, interestingly enough we were bashed alot in Oxygen for doing exactly what you suggested... Less is more, I will agree that we tend to put to many visible options on kde apps.

The problem is that as a design solution removing features to make a cleaner interface is not a decent solution IMO, and that solutions such as in-lining features actions and notifications is much better, but in our X11 world that was not easy up until recently ago, soo we are working on that lately since many of the fundamental technological problems are being solved, guess how come? Because designers and design is now part of the process, I just hope more people will want to help the process instead of bashing something as "To bad, it is ugly".

Edited 2011-01-27 19:31 UTC

Reply Score: 2

RE[5]: Too bad
by nunopinheiro on Thu 27th Jan 2011 19:26 UTC in reply to "RE[4]: Too bad"
nunopinheiro Member since:
2007-10-07

double post ingnore

Edited 2011-01-27 19:36 UTC

Reply Score: 1

RE[5]: Too bad
by acobar on Thu 27th Jan 2011 19:49 UTC in reply to "RE[4]: Too bad"
acobar Member since:
2005-11-15

Taskbar basically has no padding at all. Also I don't see any reason why the text should glow other than that it seems to be the "norm", e.g


You can add a spacer to the panel. Glow is used to improve the contrast. Many systems do that as it allow you to use small letters or colors that otherwise would not be as readable.

Blue glow? Why? Also bevels (active icons in the second screenshot for example) make the design look too busy and remind me more of CDE.


Glow on window I guess. It is a easy way to help identify which one has the focus. Nothing against and it also can be adjusted. Bevels are only used to give a feedback on what is activated. OSX used to "invert" the color what, in my opinion, make things a little more distracting.

If you're looking for good samples, have a look at KDE 3.5 screenshot - http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/1/1d/Kde-3.5.6-es.png
Even though it has its own shortcomings, it's much cleaner than the current design.


You must be kidding right? ;-)

As I said, it all boils down to personal aesthetics, and everyone has it owns.

The fact that oxygen icon theme is used on lots of customized icon themes for gnome desktop speaks per se. The interface is clean as it can be while trying to give feedback without compromising its looks. They have my respect for such a bold achievement. It is not perfect or fits everyone number, but KDE is highly customisable and can be adapted to satisfy our very subjective aesthetics senses.

Edited 2011-01-27 19:52 UTC

Reply Score: 3

RE[3]: Too bad
by Soulbender on Sat 29th Jan 2011 15:28 UTC in reply to "RE[2]: Too bad"
Soulbender Member since:
2005-08-18

Having used KDE 4 for the last couple years I simply have no idea what you're talking about.

Reply Score: 3

RE[2]: Too bad
by acobar on Thu 27th Jan 2011 17:58 UTC in reply to "RE: Too bad"
acobar Member since:
2005-11-15

Don't bother to ask. He is probably a fanboy of some other DE (or WM, perhaps), jealous that his favorite one can not stand against KDE on technical or aesthetics ground. That kind of troll that does not even try before jump with critics about something he does not know enough about. Was him a bit smart, he would refrain from comment on things without the essential knowledge/experience.

You can not please everyone on aesthetics ground only. Whenever someone publicly condemn something based on what he/she thinks does not "feels right", he should show his own "customized" things on that field. It probably would give us a lot of laugh. Also, what really counts is that KDE can be fully customized with easy to satisfy whoever tries it.

Even though it is not my favorite DE I have to congratulate the KDE team, It is really beautiful out of the box (icons, wallpapers and effects) and some of its applications are the best of the breed of the UI-oriented ones from FOSS-complex.

Reply Score: 4

RE[3]: Too bad
by nunopinheiro on Thu 27th Jan 2011 18:29 UTC in reply to "RE[2]: Too bad"
nunopinheiro Member since:
2007-10-07

Thank you so much, and I'm the frist person to know that it still needs alot of work, It is just that after so much work being done out in the open its a bit demotivating wen some one after glance states the absolute "truth", I should know better and not feed the monster but.... ;)
O well next KDE will be better, and thats the magic of it.

Reply Score: 3

RE[4]: Too bad
by MamiyaOtaru on Thu 27th Jan 2011 23:29 UTC in reply to "RE[3]: Too bad"
MamiyaOtaru Member since:
2005-11-11

O well next KDE will be better, and thats the magic of it.

I hear this every time. It's magic all right

Reply Score: 1

RE[2]: Too bad
by sj87 on Fri 28th Jan 2011 06:09 UTC in reply to "RE: Too bad"
sj87 Member since:
2007-12-16

As the lead designer in Oxygen KDE's design platform, Can I know were do you base your absolute statement???

In my mind the widget theme Oxygen sucks. It looks too legacy. The buttons are ugly, background gradient too harsh. I use the only real option for Oxygen, QtCurve.

Plasma theme is OK. It's just Plasma's taskbar's way of drawing the theme sucks. It doesn't allow for any other button shape than the one with a fixed padding around them.

Edited 2011-01-28 06:10 UTC

Reply Score: 3

RE[3]: Too bad
by _txf_ on Fri 28th Jan 2011 10:07 UTC in reply to "RE[2]: Too bad"
_txf_ Member since:
2008-03-17

too legacy. The buttons are ugly, background gradient too harsh. I use the only real option for Oxygen, QtCurve.


I Imagine most people will say the same of QtCurve. Define what legacy looks like?

Reply Score: 3

RE[4]: Too bad
by sj87 on Fri 28th Jan 2011 11:49 UTC in reply to "RE[3]: Too bad"
sj87 Member since:
2007-12-16

I Imagine most people will say the same of QtCurve. Define what legacy looks like?

Maybe, but it's more complicated.

The user can freely tweak pretty much anything in QtCurve. While it cannot be clone OS X's Aqua 1:1 and has its own limitations, it can be configured to have whatever a look the user wants. And it just gets more and more flexible after every release.

QtCurve isn't really only a theme, it's a theme engine. In this case themes aren't CSS or pixmaps but configuration options for different features.

Oxygen resembles Windows 98 way too much. That's my definition for legacy.

Edited 2011-01-28 11:52 UTC

Reply Score: 1

RE[5]: Too bad
by AdrianoML on Fri 28th Jan 2011 15:14 UTC in reply to "RE[4]: Too bad"
AdrianoML Member since:
2010-08-13

Sorry, but I think the word you might be looking for is "retro". Legacy in computer world generally refers to the technology behind it, but oxygen is actually a very advanced theme engine. So, it's definitely not legacy.

Now, I do think the design and artwork needs some improvement, but it's in no way looks like the windows classic theme. It looks better than it and surely isen't retro.

But still... there is something wrong with it. If you compare it's functionality, you might find out the classic windows theme to work better. It's much more compact and every widget has something to make then pop out. But still looks retro. (the windows theme)

Edited 2011-01-28 15:16 UTC

Reply Score: 1

RE[5]: Too bad
by _txf_ on Fri 28th Jan 2011 21:03 UTC in reply to "RE[4]: Too bad"
_txf_ Member since:
2008-03-17

I rather like some of the dark and flat themes for QtCurve (though I often get bored of them too quickly and go back to Oxygen which works more universally than most other engines and themes). However QtCurve themes with gradients remind me of early Kde3.

Oxygen is not angular as wIn98 and the sheer fact that it has gradients and soft lines should definitely not remind you of win98 which has neither.

I fail to see how one cannot see the inspiration from aqua but instead sees Win98.

Edited 2011-01-28 21:06 UTC

Reply Score: 3

RE[3]: Too bad
by CraigD on Fri 28th Jan 2011 19:47 UTC in reply to "RE[2]: Too bad"
CraigD Member since:
2011-01-28

As the author of QtCurve, I'm glad you like it.

However, even I have started to use Oxygen (now it has a matching Gtk2 theme). Its in no way perfect (for example, default buttons have no indicator when another widget has focus), but I personally think it is a very beautiful, elegant, and unique theme.

Reply Score: 3

RE[2]: Too bad
by Soulbender on Sat 29th Jan 2011 15:44 UTC in reply to "RE: Too bad"
Soulbender Member since:
2005-08-18

Bah, don't feed the retarded troll.
Oxygen QT and icon themes are good. Elegant, clean and doesn't get in the way. the plasma theme ain't my favorite though. A bit too dark and it feels a bit, I dunno, clunky. I'm more a fan of Air.

Edited 2011-01-29 15:45 UTC

Reply Score: 2

Why so serious?
by nt_jerkface on Thu 27th Jan 2011 18:17 UTC
nt_jerkface
Member since:
2009-08-26

Why are KDE fans so upset by Thom's comments?

The Gnome 3 shell looks like a parody of the desktop, Unity will be hated by power users, and everything else looks dated. The tide has shifted towards KDE.

The best move you can make now is to be patient and donate to Linux Mint.

Edited 2011-01-27 18:29 UTC

Reply Score: 2

Thank you Thom...
by Jason Bourne on Thu 27th Jan 2011 19:46 UTC
Jason Bourne
Member since:
2007-06-02

I enjoyed the headline. The KDE Software Compilation Kitchen makes one step ahead of its time. But this naming thing is really making the KDE community ridicule. And you know it. But let's face it, if it's some meritocracy, then if one wants to be ridicule, or make their mates red faced, so be it.

I too prefer KDE 4.6 and that's it.

Reply Score: 2

Aesthetics of KDE
by Jason Bourne on Thu 27th Jan 2011 20:07 UTC
Jason Bourne
Member since:
2007-06-02

I don't know. Whenever I "re-try" KDE, I get this feeling something is wrong. I can't tell you what, but it's the over-stressed-aesthetics people are complaining on some posts. One of the most problematic things in KDE, for me, it is the "K" menu. It's like a damn web browser itself.

Though I remember my enjoyable neat experience with KDE, when it was version 1.1.2. Things were't too much cluttered and fuffy.

Edited 2011-01-27 20:19 UTC

Reply Score: 2

RE: Aesthetics of KDE
by JRepin on Thu 27th Jan 2011 21:12 UTC in reply to "Aesthetics of KDE"
JRepin Member since:
2007-10-18

Well, regarding the application launcher menu, did you know you can change it to a different form that is very similar to the old/classic menu. And maybe you would like another one more: Lancelot, which i like the most. Well in the end you don't even need a menu like this, you can just use KRunner (Alt+F2) for it. I think that's what is so beautiful about KDE's desktop. All is built out from components which you can combine almost as you please so you can built the desktop just as you want it. You can't get anything like this on any other desktop.

Reply Score: 2

RE: Aesthetics of KDE
by No it isnt on Thu 27th Jan 2011 22:55 UTC in reply to "Aesthetics of KDE"
No it isnt Member since:
2005-11-14

The K menu is the best launcher menu there is. The apps you most often need, you just right click and add to the favourites. The ones you need now and then, you remember by name and type in the first few letters. The ones you use once every couple of months, you look for like you would in Windows or Gnome. It's designed for actual use, not for 10 minutes testing.

Reply Score: 4

Comment by Jason Bourne
by Jason Bourne on Fri 28th Jan 2011 17:01 UTC
Jason Bourne
Member since:
2007-06-02

Well, regarding the application launcher menu, did you know you can change it to a different form that is very similar to the old/classic menu. And maybe you would like another one more: Lancelot, which i like the most. Well in the end you don't even need a menu like this, you can just use KRunner (Alt+F2) for it. I think that's what is so beautiful about KDE's desktop. All is built out from components which you can combine almost as you please so you can built the desktop just as you want it. You can't get anything like this on any other desktop.


Yes, I knew it! I know I can magically switch to KDE classic menu with just one single click. But let's see the bigger picture here. It's important to set sane settings as default settings, and not stupid options default and leave the user to choose the option to hack around later. This is important, and this is why Ubuntu pushed farther miles than Kubuntu, because of the polishing and minor level of stupid options default. However, KDE is a mess on any distribution. "You can change it later" it's an argument for the loser, really. Should KDE rethink Kickoff, or perhaps even hard-copy Windows 7 Menu, it would be much better for KDE.

The K menu is the best launcher menu there is. The apps you most often need, you just right click and add to the favourites. The ones you need now and then, you remember by name and type in the first few letters. The ones you use once every couple of months, you look for like you would in Windows or Gnome. It's designed for actual use, not for 10 minutes testing.


Well, I get the feeling that this KickOff menu was supposed to be a hard-copy from Windows 7 or Vista. SOMEHOW, and I really mean it, SOMEHOW, someone decided to change a few things for it not to look so much like Vista/7. Problem is that this person turned it into a goddamn almost-like webpage menu browser with unnecessary sliding into so many sub-levels. A good menu won't have you effing searching for anything, the thing is just there. Let's cut the crap out. I would be more relieved if it was a plain copy from Windows aesthetics.

I sincerely don't get what is this thing with search feature freaks.

Reply Score: 1

RE: Comment by Jason Bourne
by AdrianoML on Fri 28th Jan 2011 19:07 UTC in reply to "Comment by Jason Bourne"
AdrianoML Member since:
2010-08-13

I can't understand this hate for the K menu. You just need to hover your pointer over the apps thing (which is really close to the menu button) and there you have, every application installed. You can type right away for search queries, it opens right away with your favorites apps and the hover "tab" thing works really well. Oh, and no button clusterfuck that is the win7 menu.

I find it very compact, clean, fast, and it's TOTALLY DIFFERENT from vista/win7 menu. You might say they share that huge rectangle shape, and thats it.

But, there are flaws, aside from questionable artwork and too much space used for each entry, it also comes pre-configured to show only generic apps name instead of their real name, which is really annoying.

For example, Chrome is listed as "Internet Browser", and only once you hover it, "Chrome" fades with a very small font, as if this was a worthless information. There is an option to reverse this behavior (App name first, then it's generic name/function), but really, kde devs, make it default!

Reply Score: 2

Comment by Jason Bourne
by Jason Bourne on Fri 28th Jan 2011 23:28 UTC
Jason Bourne
Member since:
2007-06-02

As the author of QtCurve, I'm glad you like it.

However, even I have started to use Oxygen (now it has a matching Gtk2 theme). Its in no way perfect (for example, default buttons have no indicator when another widget has focus), but I personally think it is a very beautiful, elegant, and unique theme.


Oxygen is Aqua rip-off.
No creativity in Linux world on this one, sorry.

Reply Score: 1

RE: Comment by Jason Bourne
by TheGZeus on Sat 29th Jan 2011 00:43 UTC in reply to "Comment by Jason Bourne"
TheGZeus Member since:
2010-05-19

"NYEH!"

Reply Score: 2

RE: Comment by Jason Bourne
by nunopinheiro on Sat 29th Jan 2011 01:20 UTC in reply to "Comment by Jason Bourne"
nunopinheiro Member since:
2007-10-07

JESUS can you guys decide on what I'm coping??? Realy I get confused. It must be a copy because well its as buttons and stuff.

Reply Score: 4

RE: Comment by Jason Bourne
by Soulbender on Sat 29th Jan 2011 15:37 UTC in reply to "Comment by Jason Bourne"
Soulbender Member since:
2005-08-18

I guess you have never used OSX because Oxygen looks NOTHING like Aqua.
Then again, it's obvious from your contradicting posts that you're only interested in kicking up a shitstorm. Pretty sad way to validate your life, really.

Reply Score: 4

Kickoff menu
by smitty on Sat 29th Jan 2011 07:20 UTC
smitty
Member since:
2005-10-13

I'm pretty sure the kickoff menu was created and released before Vista ever was, so if anyone copied something it was microsoft.

Personally, i like it. I think most of the people who complain have never actually tried using it for more than a day or two, because it does take some time to get used to it, but once you do it works great.

You just stick the 10 or so apps that you frequently use in the favorites section that instantly pops up, and whenever you want to use a different app type the first character and it will show up.

It's not perfect, though. Searching manually through the menu levels for an app is terrible. The only reason this isn't a deal killer is because I literally never have to use that functionality. Something like the Windows start menu would be much better. Also, the tabs don't really feel solid enough to me. Again, i hardly ever use the tabs since i rely on the favorites menu and quick search, but i do notice it when i go to the logout tab.

So, parts of kickoff are great and parts are terrible. The key is that once you get used to it, you never have to use the terrible parts because the great bits take care of everything.

Reply Score: 2

Oxygen style
by smitty on Sat 29th Jan 2011 07:23 UTC
smitty
Member since:
2005-10-13

Also, since Nuno is apparently watching this thread:

Oxygen is pretty darn good, thanks for all your work.

If i was going to point out anything, it would be that it sometimes lacks a bit of contrast, and that it overuses transparency in what i assume is a desire to look cool.

However, those are pretty minor nitpicks and I'd say it's basically on par with the Windows 7 and OSX themes.

Reply Score: 3

RE: Oxygen style
by nunopinheiro on Sun 30th Jan 2011 16:32 UTC in reply to "Oxygen style"
nunopinheiro Member since:
2007-10-07

Thanks, yeah I agree with some of the points you make ...like low contrast coherency, unfortunately due to the way Qt or Gtk btw paints widgets we can't do it as we would like to, times are changing dough so we will be able to do new stuff in the future we haven't been able to so far.
About the grand idea being Oxygen... OK so I hope I did not copied anything, the basic design concept in oxygen is slabs of ceramic material, all of the elements try to live in a world were everything loves in one coherent slab with layers and holes to represent each different UI element... The propose of the theme was never to be a "WOW"theme but rather something that could last years, at least the 4.x cycle, so a bit on the boring side of things not to much on your face and discrete.
Like all things in the world it not perfect, will never be but we keep on working on it. NOW.....

IT IS NOT A COPY OF ANYTHING, I did have a look like I alleyways do to what solutions other themes propose to similar problems an is some cases we used similar solutions and in others no.... and we created completely new ideas. Example we use glow as a way to show active or preselected state in a consistent way across all elements including windows no one else does that AFIK.

Reply Score: 1

RE[2]: Oxygen style
by tuma324 on Sun 30th Jan 2011 18:28 UTC in reply to "RE: Oxygen style"
tuma324 Member since:
2010-04-09

Thanks, yeah I agree with some of the points you make ...like low contrast coherency, unfortunately due to the way Qt or Gtk btw paints widgets we can't do it as we would like to, times are changing dough so we will be able to do new stuff in the future we haven't been able to so far.
About the grand idea being Oxygen... OK so I hope I did not copied anything, the basic design concept in oxygen is slabs of ceramic material, all of the elements try to live in a world were everything loves in one coherent slab with layers and holes to represent each different UI element... The propose of the theme was never to be a "WOW"theme but rather something that could last years, at least the 4.x cycle, so a bit on the boring side of things not to much on your face and discrete.
Like all things in the world it not perfect, will never be but we keep on working on it. NOW.....

IT IS NOT A COPY OF ANYTHING, I did have a look like I alleyways do to what solutions other themes propose to similar problems an is some cases we used similar solutions and in others no.... and we created completely new ideas. Example we use glow as a way to show active or preselected state in a consistent way across all elements including windows no one else does that AFIK.


How about if you fix your grammar too?

Reply Score: 1

RE[3]: Oxygen style
by fast_rizwaan on Sun 30th Jan 2011 20:30 UTC in reply to "RE[2]: Oxygen style"
fast_rizwaan Member since:
2010-09-01

>How about if you fix your grammar too?
All English Grammar rules have exceptions...

So, Grammar is a desperate attempt to "standardize" what is being spoken...

it ain't gonna help man... grammar sucks ass anyhow... :-)

Reply Score: 1

RE[3]: Oxygen style
by nunopinheiro on Mon 31st Jan 2011 15:18 UTC in reply to "RE[2]: Oxygen style"
nunopinheiro Member since:
2007-10-07

Sorry my bad, in my defense, not a native speaker, on top of dyslexia, (just a bit).
It made sense to me wen I wrote it ;)

Reply Score: 1

RE[3]: Oxygen style
by aunzim on Mon 31st Jan 2011 19:07 UTC in reply to "RE[2]: Oxygen style"
aunzim Member since:
2008-07-25

he could always replay you in portuguese if you perfer...

Reply Score: 1

RE[2]: Oxygen style
by fast_rizwaan on Sun 30th Jan 2011 20:17 UTC in reply to "RE: Oxygen style"
fast_rizwaan Member since:
2010-09-01

Oxygen in 4.5+ is just too good. :-) Really I love oxygen style.

But please allow 13 size radio buttons and check boxes. as 18 size radio buttons and check boxes are looking bad in Google's pages, like gmail.

Gradient, It can't be "disabled" to changed from "radial" to "vertical/horizontal" for a consistent look; it is especially evident with oxygen-gtk and libreoffice.

Thanks so much for a beautiful style which is really subtle and aesthetic and I appreciate your "eye for detail" in the style. :-)

Reply Score: 1

RE[3]: Oxygen style
by nunopinheiro on Mon 31st Jan 2011 11:32 UTC in reply to "RE[2]: Oxygen style"
nunopinheiro Member since:
2007-10-07

thanks ;)
about the gradient....
heeee you can set the windeco gradient to flat you can even do that on a app per app basis look here....the screnshot shows were you can change this behavior.

http://i.imgur.com/jOdGe.png

cheers

Reply Score: 1

Comment by Jason Bourne
by Jason Bourne on Mon 31st Jan 2011 17:56 UTC
Jason Bourne
Member since:
2007-06-02

Then again, it's obvious from your contradicting posts that you're only interested in kicking up a shitstorm. Pretty sad way to validate your life, really.


Hey stupid, have you actually seen the grey gradient that is filling throughout the user interface of Oxygen and Aqua applications? The one with shit in mouth here it is you.

Reply Score: 2