Linked by Thom Holwerda on Mon 14th Feb 2011 20:54 UTC
Windows So, Mobile World Congress is going on over in the beautiful city of Barcelona, and there, Steve Ballmer held a little speech about Windows Phone 7's past, present, and future. Especially the future interests us, as a lot's been planned for this year: copy/paste, hardware-accelerated mobile Internet Explorer 9, and, yes, multitasking!
Order by: Score:
Fast task switcher 2.0
by kragil on Mon 14th Feb 2011 21:44 UTC
kragil
Member since:
2006-01-04

This isn't multitasking. These are frozen recently used apps, with some services allowed to run in the background. It may be a good idea on the phone, but it is not what a computer scientist would call multitasking (check the wiki page)

Reply Score: 6

RE: Fast task switcher 2.0
by sukru on Mon 14th Feb 2011 23:32 UTC in reply to "Fast task switcher 2.0"
sukru Member since:
2006-11-19

You're technically correct.

But I can understand why MS is doing this. After installing/updating some apps, I often see my battery usage go up 20% in average. Then I need to diagnose which particular apps are not started to work in the background, and configure/disable those features.

I remember having one particular news app (will not name) hiking my usage from 8mA/idle to 60mA/idle effectively killing my battery in a day.

(Edit: This is for my Android phones).

Edited 2011-02-14 23:33 UTC

Reply Score: 3

RE: Fast task switcher 2.0
by Blackadder on Tue 15th Feb 2011 00:38 UTC in reply to "Fast task switcher 2.0"
Blackadder Member since:
2010-02-03

Since you brought up computer science, I personally don't know if any smartphones which do not have multi-tasking in the scientific sense of it. They are all essentially running tens to hundreds of tasks in parallel through scheduling and time sharing on one set of resources (processor, memory, etc.)

The distinction here is user and application oriented "multi-tasking" or better said "Multi-Application". That has understandable limitations on today's phones so different vendors try to limit the negative impacts through limiting the way multiple apps run in parallel.

Reply Score: 3

RE: Fast task switcher 2.0
by Brunis on Tue 15th Feb 2011 17:50 UTC in reply to "Fast task switcher 2.0"
Brunis Member since:
2005-11-01

This isn't multitasking. These are frozen recently used apps, with some services allowed to run in the background. It may be a good idea on the phone, but it is not what a computer scientist would call multitasking (check the wiki page)


So they are just using Windows 7 code!?! Re-use old crap code! Clever Basterds!

no, seriously, i actually read that as "Windows 7 would receive multitasking" ..as in decent multitasking!

Reply Score: 0

RE: Fast task switcher 2.0
by elektrik on Thu 17th Feb 2011 23:16 UTC in reply to "Fast task switcher 2.0"
elektrik Member since:
2006-04-18

<sarcasm>Re: The Video-Windows phone 7's multitasking acts just like the Cooperative multitasking of Windows 3.1 (Circa 1992)! We've gone backwards 19 years-SWEET!</sarcasm>

Edit: Added sarcasm tags.

Edited 2011-02-17 23:17 UTC

Reply Score: 1

v This is supposed to be OS news right?
by Sleg on Mon 14th Feb 2011 21:45 UTC
AmigaRobbo Member since:
2005-11-15

No.
OS NEWS That's Operating System News.

Nothing to do with open source.

Edited 2011-02-14 21:49 UTC

Reply Score: 10

Soulbender Member since:
2005-08-18

And now there is too much MSnews. Since we have previously heard tha tthere is too much Apple news, too much Ubuntu news, too much Linux news, too much opinions I guess it's a good, balanced mix in the end.

Also, the OS in OSNews is for Operating System, not Open Source.

Edited 2011-02-14 22:34 UTC

Reply Score: 5

Praxis Member since:
2009-09-17

And now there is too much MSnews. Since we have previously heard tha tthere is too much Apple news, too much Ubuntu news, too much Linux news, too much opinions I guess it's a good, balanced mix in the end.


Well Microsoft has been the one announcing stuff lately. Unless you want to fill the news feed with apple rumors, WP7 is the story of the week.

Reply Score: 3

Translation
by wargum on Mon 14th Feb 2011 21:51 UTC
wargum
Member since:
2006-12-15

At least one more year to ridicule MS for their antiquated OS!

I mean, really? C&P? Multitasking? Erm, exciting...

Sorry, I know my post sounds a little trollish, so far. They have a long way to go just to catch up to the current status quo. Word is that Nokia's first WP7 gear will arrive in early 2012. With the rapid development speed of Android last year, I can only imagine where they will be one year from now. Not saying MS are game over, but being different (WP7 UI = Tiles galore, minimalism) doesn't equal success. Did anybody actually miss MS in the next generation smartphone wars? I haven't.

Edited 2011-02-14 21:52 UTC

Reply Score: 5

RE: Translation
by nt_jerkface on Tue 15th Feb 2011 01:46 UTC in reply to "Translation"
nt_jerkface Member since:
2009-08-26

Did anybody actually miss MS in the next generation smartphone wars? I haven't.


Would you prefer it to be an Android/Apple market? That really doesn't leave much pressure for Android to do anything other than copy Apple.

Reply Score: 3

v RE[2]: Translation
by _txf_ on Tue 15th Feb 2011 02:02 UTC in reply to "RE: Translation"
RE[3]: Translation
by testman on Tue 15th Feb 2011 06:52 UTC in reply to "RE[2]: Translation"
testman Member since:
2007-10-15

Microsoft can afford to make a few mistakes along the way as long as a few of their big products make it (Windows, Office, Xbox). Why does a company have to "die" for you to be happy? Is this a freetard thing normal people don't understand?

Reply Score: 2

RE[3]: Translation
by MollyC on Tue 15th Feb 2011 07:23 UTC in reply to "RE[2]: Translation"
MollyC Member since:
2006-07-04

I tired of MS constantly failing and simply refusing to die. Granted, WP7 is interesting but WM and Kin and Zune should really have killed the beast. If this were any other company such a string of fail would have slayed them for sure...


Um, why do you care? Just don't buy the Microsoft products. I don't get this "rooting for company X to die" nonsense.

Reply Score: 4

RE[4]: Translation
by drahca on Tue 15th Feb 2011 10:09 UTC in reply to "RE[3]: Translation"
drahca Member since:
2006-02-23

Um, why do you care? Just don't buy the Microsoft products. I don't get this "rooting for company X to die" nonsense.


Yeah, just don't buy Microsoft products, all those whiners! (disclaimer, this was all some time ago)

Mmm, the University I work at has changed their mail server to Exchange, now I cannot even read the emails I send to myself. Strange, let's call tech support.
Tech support: "So, why are you not using Outlook?"
Me: "Em, I have an SGI and a Linux box."

Ok, so I'll just use the web interface for Outlook in Firefox. Mmm, that doesn't look right, where did all the functionality go?
Tech Support: "Yeah, the 'advanced' web interface only works with Internet Explorer. Just use IE!"

I'll just use my own client.
Me: "I can't authenticate."
Tech support: "You have to use Kerberos."
Me: "I am using Kerberos"
Tech Support: "Are you using Microsoft Kerberos?"
Me: "Huh? Ehm, no ..."
Tech support: "Well, there is your problem."
Me: "Sigh"

Ah, I have mail. Let's see. Oh a Word document. Let's try to open this with OpenOffice. Mmm, that doesn't look right.
Tech support: "Sigh, just use Office10 ..."

Why doesn't our company page load in Firefox? Optimized for IE6? Uh oh ...

Tech support: "Ok, we have had it with you. We'll fix all your problems. Here! A brand new Windows box to accompany your antiquated tech on your desk."

Reply Score: 5

RE[5]: Translation
by Thom_Holwerda on Tue 15th Feb 2011 10:53 UTC in reply to "RE[4]: Translation"
Thom_Holwerda Member since:
2005-06-29

Then your university is incompetent. All those tools you mention work just fine under Linux and Mac OS X - my university uses the same tools, and they properly support Linux, Mac OS X, and all browsers.

Reply Score: 2

RE[6]: Translation
by drahca on Tue 15th Feb 2011 12:54 UTC in reply to "RE[5]: Translation"
drahca Member since:
2006-02-23

Then your university is incompetent. All those tools you mention work just fine under Linux and Mac OS X - my university uses the same tools, and they properly support Linux, Mac OS X, and all browsers.


That might well be, I already said this was some time ago and many corporate IT departments are just as incompetent. They mostly have MS certified people working there. The point is that Microsoft has a very large footprint in the IT world, until a couple of years ago there was just no escaping this, it is becoming somewhat easier now.

It is nice that some tools such as Thunderbird have caught up with Exchange support, but this was not always the case and it is certainly not due to Microsoft. Also the damage they did to web standards caused many frustrations amongst web developers. Microsoft deliberately sabotaged Kerberos. It refuses to open up its own protocols and file formats preventing good OpenOffice support. They prevented Beos to be installed at OEMs. I can go on...

The parent asked why he cared. I think the history of Microsoft's behavior can well be seen as a justification to care about such things. It is nice to see that Microsoft is learning some humility and is trying to compete with better products instead of market domination for a change.

Reply Score: 6

RE[7]: Translation
by _txf_ on Tue 15th Feb 2011 14:23 UTC in reply to "RE[6]: Translation"
_txf_ Member since:
2008-03-17

The parent asked why he cared. I think the history of Microsoft's behavior can well be seen as a justification to care about such things. It is nice to see that Microsoft is learning some humility and is trying to compete with better products instead of market domination for a change.


I for one believe that if a company has a crappy strategy they should be penalised for it. The rate that Microsoft has been sucking so bad should have had a greater effect on it. Once they consistently stop sucking (as opposed to having isolated successes) then they deserve to live.

Reply Score: 2

RE[7]: Translation
by lucas_maximus on Tue 15th Feb 2011 18:45 UTC in reply to "RE[6]: Translation"
lucas_maximus Member since:
2009-08-18

Someone doesn't remember how bad the other browsers were before IE4.

Reply Score: 3

RE[4]: Translation
by WereCatf on Tue 15th Feb 2011 14:47 UTC in reply to "RE[3]: Translation"
WereCatf Member since:
2006-02-15

I don't get this "rooting for company X to die" nonsense.


It's basic human psychology: if you have a preference for certain parties you know any additional players in the same field are competitors and will weaken the stand of your preferred ones. This reflects as a direct attack against you as well in your subconscious, ie. "your preference is not good enough." Some people are more susceptible to act out on such subconscious threats without even realizing where their aggression comes from, especially in males as it is in their instincts to protect their territory.

Reply Score: 2

RE[4]: Translation
by Surtur on Wed 16th Feb 2011 10:32 UTC in reply to "RE[3]: Translation"
Surtur Member since:
2009-04-15

"I tired of MS constantly failing and simply refusing to die. Granted, WP7 is interesting but WM and Kin and Zune should really have killed the beast. If this were any other company such a string of fail would have slayed them for sure...


Um, why do you care? Just don't buy the Microsoft products. I don't get this "rooting for company X to die" nonsense.
"

If it would be that easy. Just because you don't buy it does not mean you are not influences by it in a negative way as "drahca" describes it further.

Network externalities 101. Nevertheless that does not mean I agree with the parent on the "just die" part but the reasons therefore are quite obvious. IE6 anyone?

Reply Score: 2

RE[2]: Translation
by wargum on Tue 15th Feb 2011 19:59 UTC in reply to "RE: Translation"
wargum Member since:
2006-12-15

Would you prefer it to be an Android/Apple market? That really doesn't leave much pressure for Android to do anything other than copy Apple.


I forgot all the others! There is HP webOS, Samsungs Bada is also doing quite well, I hear. And RIM will definitely switch to their new QNX based Smartphone OS next year or maybe even this year.

And you know what's funny? People stopped copying Apple at this stage. Quite a few operating systems mimic webOS' multitasking aproach, iOS almost seems boring, now.

Reply Score: 2

Yeah, right!
by eantoranz on Mon 14th Feb 2011 21:51 UTC
eantoranz
Member since:
2005-12-18

Sure.... let's hold our breath and not buy another phone just so that I can buy the Windows 7 phone powered one.... that will have half the features I'm waiting for..... sooooooo non-typical of Microsoft.

Reply Score: 2

Excellent
by Paradroid on Mon 14th Feb 2011 22:04 UTC
Paradroid
Member since:
2010-01-05

Very pleased to see Twitter is going into the People Hub as I dislike Facebook.

I feel vindicated in my decision to switch from iOS to WP7 two weeks ago with everything that is coming up this year. Can't wait!

Reply Score: 2

Feel sorry for him
by nathbeadle on Mon 14th Feb 2011 22:36 UTC
nathbeadle
Member since:
2006-08-08

I'm sure it's gotta be hard to get up on a stage and try and sell/make exciting features that are catching-up to everyone else.

The whole presentation was "on our old phone it wouldn't do this but on our new phone it will", nothing about features present that aren't found on any other phone out there (iOS, Android, webOS, etc).

Not bashing the OS.. I have my personal preference and I know WP7 offers some unique things, but watching the video just makes me feel sad for the guy!

Reply Score: 3

Yeah, we know
by Bill Shooter of Bul on Mon 14th Feb 2011 23:57 UTC
Bill Shooter of Bul
Member since:
2006-07-14

Ie is the blight on win phone 7. A major revamping of it is required for it to get any traction in the phone OS marketplace, nokia deal or not.

Reply Score: 2

Windows Phone Localization
by Richard Dale on Tue 15th Feb 2011 00:34 UTC
Richard Dale
Member since:
2005-07-22

I'm still trying to find out the technical details of WP7, and as far as I can see the localization features seem pretty limited. It can only be localized for six different languages at the moment (Dutch isn't included for instance). See http://forums.silverlight.net/forums/p/212996/502723.aspx

Does anyone know if localization is being improved with respect to language strings in the next release? Does WP7 support right to left languages and so on?

Reply Score: 3

RE: Windows Phone Localization
by elsewhere on Tue 15th Feb 2011 05:27 UTC in reply to "Windows Phone Localization"
elsewhere Member since:
2005-07-13

I'm still trying to find out the technical details of WP7, and as far as I can see the localization features seem pretty limited. It can only be localized for six different languages at the moment (Dutch isn't included for instance). See http://forums.silverlight.net/forums/p/212996/502723.aspx

Does anyone know if localization is being improved with respect to language strings in the next release? Does WP7 support right to left languages and so on?


This, apparently, is one of the things Nokia is bringing to the table in their new deal with MS, so it will probably improve one way or the other...

Reply Score: 2

Comment by kaiwai
by kaiwai on Wed 16th Feb 2011 01:54 UTC
kaiwai
Member since:
2005-07-06

In other news the MBU (Mac Business Unit) has officially shipped (via AppStore) 'Windows Phone 7 Connector' with rumours that Zune maybe receiving WP7 update as well which should translate into support for Zune on Mac OS X.

http://www.macupdate.com/app/mac/35607/microsoft-windows-phone-7-co...

I'm holding out for a WP7 phone as soon as it arrives on the Telecom XT Network - I can parallel import a phone from the US (AT&T since XT Network uses 850/2100) but they're locked down majorly thus the pain isn't worth the trouble.

Regarding the Internet Explorer 9 hardware acceleration, are they using XNA for the hardware acceleration because if I remember correctly Windows Phone 7 doesn't have the full DirectX/DirectWrite/Direct2D unless they're going to add such functionality at a later release - DirectWrite/Direct2D being based on top of XNA.

Reply Score: 2

RE: Comment by kaiwai
by Nelson on Wed 16th Feb 2011 07:48 UTC in reply to "Comment by kaiwai"
Nelson Member since:
2005-11-29

XNA is a managed wrapper around DirectX. IE isn't a managed application (at least not the core rendering engine, the shell very well may be), so it does use the underlying DirectX API family.

They've stated that already, in the current shipping version, they are using DirectWrite for text rendering (try zooming in on text in IE on WP7 then compare it to other browsers). I don't think its too much of a reach to think that they've ported their entire DX stack to WP7.

The interesting part about this though, is that if they build a native UI toolkit around Direct2D (it has to exist, Microsoft 1st party apps are not managed code they're native code) and release it to select partners, it could go a long way towards easing transitions from native to managed code.

Edit: Just to clarify, I believe you have it backwards:

It is XNA which is built ontop of DirectX, not the other way around. XNA actually replaced MDX (Managed DirectX) and is quite a bit nicer ;) .

So all those shiny, well performing games that are on Windows Phone are all C# ;)

Edited 2011-02-16 07:51 UTC

Reply Score: 2

nothing to do with the OS
by LanceW on Wed 16th Feb 2011 04:45 UTC
LanceW
Member since:
2011-02-16

I guess it has nothing to do with the OS but I think it is important for us to know the latest development not only in software but also in the current standing of the companies.

Edited 2011-02-16 04:48 UTC

Reply Score: 1

No Windows on phones for me, thank you
by benali72 on Thu 17th Feb 2011 06:05 UTC
benali72
Member since:
2008-05-03

The only thing I would want less on my phone than Windows is ... IE. Wonder what kind of anti-malware it will run?

Reply Score: 1

Microsofts prohibits free software on WP7
by toast88 on Thu 17th Feb 2011 10:10 UTC
toast88
Member since:
2009-09-23

Hi,

the following just showed up on a German news website:

http://create.msdn.com/en-us/home/legal/Windows_Phone_Marketplace_A...


“Excluded License” means any license requiring, as a condition of use, modification and/or distribution of the software subject to the license, that the software or other software combined and/or distributed with it be (i) disclosed or distributed in source code form; (ii) licensed for the purpose of making derivative works; or (iii) redistributable at no charge. Excluded Licenses include, but are not limited to the GPLv3 Licenses. For the purpose of this definition, “GPLv3 Licenses” means the GNU General Public License version 3, the GNU Affero General Public License version 3, the GNU Lesser General Public License version 3, and any equivalents to the foregoing.


Nice, isn't it?

Now Thom, do you still think WP7 is _the_ platform to choose in future?

Adrian

Reply Score: 1