Linked by Kostis Kapelonis on Tue 15th Feb 2011 22:57 UTC
General Development Enlightenment version 16 was one of most configurable window managers back in late nineties (and still is). For the next version however Rasterman and friends decided to create a complete desktop shell instead of just a simple window manager. Enlighenment version 17 is therefore based on a set of graphical libraries which can used for other applications as well. But do we need another set of libraries when QT and GTK+ are already mature and stable? Depending on your needs, you might find that using the Enlightenment libraries is truly an enlightening experience!
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Hell has frozen over...
by Tuishimi on Tue 15th Feb 2011 23:52 UTC
Tuishimi
Member since:
2005-07-06

...pigs are flying and Duke Nukem Forever is coming out!

Reply Score: 12

RE: Hell has frozen over...
by hufman on Wed 16th Feb 2011 03:56 UTC in reply to "Hell has frozen over..."
hufman Member since:
2008-10-11
RE: Hell has frozen over...
by Soulbender on Wed 16th Feb 2011 18:55 UTC in reply to "Hell has frozen over..."
Soulbender Member since:
2005-08-18

Well, it's not actually e17 that's at 1.0 though.
Heck, people say Nokia took their time with Meego? That's amateur hour compared to e17 ;)

Reply Score: 2

RE[2]: Hell has frozen over...
by Tuishimi on Wed 16th Feb 2011 18:56 UTC in reply to "RE: Hell has frozen over..."
Tuishimi Member since:
2005-07-06

Ha! Good point. ;) I actually thought of that when I wrote my post... but I figured it would still be amusing.

Reply Score: 2

RE: Hell has frozen over...
by indech on Thu 17th Feb 2011 12:23 UTC in reply to "Hell has frozen over..."
indech Member since:
2005-12-06

I'm still waiting for a 1.0 release of GNU Hurd.

Reply Score: 1

Edje
by puelocesar on Wed 16th Feb 2011 00:05 UTC
puelocesar
Member since:
2008-10-30

I think Edje is absolutely amazing and doesn't have it's deserved attention.

Reply Score: 3

on windows
by fran on Wed 16th Feb 2011 00:11 UTC
fran
Member since:
2010-08-06

Running enlightenment on Windows might make it it less intimidating for apple users.
That is if enlightenment can make it real, real easy:-)

Reply Score: 2

Questionable statement
by Hypnos on Wed 16th Feb 2011 00:36 UTC
Hypnos
Member since:
2008-11-19

The beauty of this comes from the fact that EFL does NOT need hardware accellerated support! Although it will take advantage of it (if found) it is not a strict requirement.

Do GTK+ and Qt require hardware acceleration?

The reason for this is the EFL canvas (named Evas) is a lot smarter that your average QT or GTK+ canvas. Instead of blindly rendering pixels and then forgetting about them, it actually keeps track of what is shown at the screen at any given time. Then it can calculated only the parts that have changed and do not render the rest.

Don't GTK+ and Qt also support XDAMAGE?

Perhaps the difference is:

The programmer is also completely un-aware of this.

More elaboration is in order on how EFL is unique.

Reply Score: 4

RE: Questionable statement
by fasteez on Wed 16th Feb 2011 06:08 UTC in reply to "Questionable statement"
fasteez Member since:
2007-03-13

+1

rasterman has been said to be an awesome programmer doing wonders but I don't think any post gdi32 graphic toolkit used today lacks damage/dirty information (gdi32 has at least some form of it). Java Swing has it, irrc I used an option in kde4 to monitor the redraw regions .. Any experienced dev can confirm that ?

Reply Score: 2

RE: Questionable statement
by Radio on Wed 16th Feb 2011 08:03 UTC in reply to "Questionable statement"
Radio Member since:
2009-06-20

Do GTK+ and Qt require hardware acceleration?
No, except if you want some effects (3D/fast scrolling/physics). EFL provides those effects without hardware acceleration.

Reply Score: 5

RE[2]: Questionable statement
by Hypnos on Wed 16th Feb 2011 08:21 UTC in reply to "RE: Questionable statement"
Hypnos Member since:
2008-11-19

Yeah, but wouldn't providing those effects without hardware acceleration kill your battery life, which was a main selling point of EFL?

Reply Score: 2

RE[3]: Questionable statement
by Radio on Wed 16th Feb 2011 09:54 UTC in reply to "RE[2]: Questionable statement"
Radio Member since:
2009-06-20

I don't know (evaluating the energetic cost of code is difficult: what architecture, how you compile, what you enable and disable, etc.). Mobile devices ship more and more with powerful GPUs, anyway, nowadays; it is just more efficient. But if you just can't have a (good) GPU, EFL offers a way to still get what you want.

Reply Score: 2

Comment by zizban
by zizban on Wed 16th Feb 2011 00:58 UTC
zizban
Member since:
2005-07-06

Great overview! But I think the writer loves exclamation points! Alot!

Reply Score: 2

E17 anything but "speedy"
by phoenix on Wed 16th Feb 2011 01:02 UTC
phoenix
Member since:
2005-07-11

Well if you are developing native applications for your 8-core machine with infinite memory then EFL might not seem something important to you. If however you are into embedded devices (think 8-16 MBs of RAM and simple processors) then EFL might be the best thing since sliced bread. It all comes down to speed. EFL are truly optimized for speed!


Define "speed".

We've tried running E17 (via Arch Linux I believe) on our diskless machines (about a month ago), and while things are smooth, it's not speedy. And it comes at a *very* heavy price, using up most of the 1 GB of RAM and 90% CPU with just the desktop loaded with an animated wallpaper.

Disabling the animated wallpaper drops CPU usage a bit, but it's still over 80% when moving windows around or switching windows.

It sure looks pretty, though, with smooth animations and no tearing or anything like that. But it's definitely not "speedy", nor efficient.

This is on a 2.0 GHz AMD Sempron CPU with nVidia 6100 graphics onboard, and the binary nvidia driver.

GNOME 2.x, KDE 3.x, and even KDE 4.x are more efficient (10-20% CPU, 100-200 MB RAM) and nicer to use, on the same hardware. (One of the nice things about diskless clients is that switching OSes is a simple reboot away.)

Reply Score: 2

RE: E17 anything but "speedy"
by bnolsen on Wed 16th Feb 2011 01:35 UTC in reply to "E17 anything but "speedy""
bnolsen Member since:
2006-01-06

A big irritation was that they had no support for wireframe resizing or moving. That was a deal killer for me (still as of 6 months ago), especially with some graphics intense applications which don't have a friendly resize behavior.

Reply Score: 2

RE: E17 anything but "speedy"
by Beresford on Wed 16th Feb 2011 04:07 UTC in reply to "E17 anything but "speedy""
Beresford Member since:
2005-07-06

E17 might not be speedy (for you), but that doesn't mean the EFL aren't.

Edited 2011-02-16 04:09 UTC

Reply Score: 2

RE: E17 anything but "speedy"
by Soulbender on Wed 16th Feb 2011 04:08 UTC in reply to "E17 anything but "speedy""
Soulbender Member since:
2005-08-18

I really can't tell what's wrong with your setup but on Kubuntu 10.10 my CPU usage with E17 is close to 0% most of the time. That's with the default theme (it has some system monitors), chromium and an xterm running. This is one a 5+ year old laptop at 1.3 ghz with crummy Intel 855GM video.
So yeah, I'd say it's pretty damn smooth and speedy. Although it would be nice if the default theme wasnt so washed out with white that you can't see anything of it.

Edited 2011-02-16 04:09 UTC

Reply Score: 5

RE: E17 anything but "speedy"
by soulnothing on Wed 16th Feb 2011 04:24 UTC in reply to "E17 anything but "speedy""
soulnothing Member since:
2009-08-11

Ill preface I appreciate the arch devs for packaging pre release software. Generally my experience with packaged e17 & efl has been shaky at best. For arch using repo package my cpu usage was relativley high to me 20-30, with composite more like 40-60%. Compiled I rarely go above 10%, including compositing. I don't know what it is, but self compiling just worked better. I used easy_e17 for a while and switched to my own package builds later. Archs package were pretty bare of configuration flags, however i think a lot of options are auto enabled. So I don't know where the problem is.

None the less I'm happy to hear this I've been an e17 user since 2005, prior to that an e16 user. I have had great experiences with e17.

Reply Score: 2

RE: E17 anything but "speedy"
by cb88 on Wed 16th Feb 2011 04:43 UTC in reply to "E17 anything but "speedy""
cb88 Member since:
2009-04-23

You clearly have something broken in your setup..... I've ran e17 on much slower hardware without any hitches are you running KDE4/Gnome applications in tandem with e17 thats probably the problem... you get all the bloat of Gnome + QT4 + e17 which makes it look bad and it really isn't

Reply Score: 1

RE: E17 anything but "speedy"
by unclefester on Wed 16th Feb 2011 08:05 UTC in reply to "E17 anything but "speedy""
unclefester Member since:
2007-01-13

Something is very wrong.

AntiX (E17 on Mepis) uses 2% cpu and around 60 megs of ram on my Athlon 4000+

Reply Score: 4

RE[2]: E17 anything but "speedy"
by Sauron on Wed 16th Feb 2011 16:59 UTC in reply to "RE: E17 anything but "speedy""
Sauron Member since:
2005-08-02

Must be something wrong there. Installed Antix Linux with E17 on an old K6 2-550 box with 256 MB ram the other day, and even on that old chugger the CPU doesn't go above 15% unless doing something intensive.

Reply Score: 1

Unstable
by sj87 on Wed 16th Feb 2011 05:18 UTC
sj87
Member since:
2007-12-16

My problem with E17 has been its very unstable configuration. I play around in the settings and then it randomly begins to segfault. And it will segfault on boot every single time. My only chance is then to reset the configuration and start all over. That's why I can't use it on my laptop although I sure would like to.

Reply Score: 3

RE: Unstable
by t3RRa on Thu 17th Feb 2011 02:21 UTC in reply to "Unstable"
t3RRa Member since:
2005-11-22

Probably because you've used the unstable version? It is that simple :p Oh and E17 has not reached 1.0 yet.

Reply Score: 1

EFL has been released
by diegoviola on Wed 16th Feb 2011 08:40 UTC
diegoviola
Member since:
2006-08-15

but what about the WM? E17, when it'll be released?

Reply Score: 4

Fucking awful spelling.
by Lava_Croft on Wed 16th Feb 2011 11:19 UTC
Lava_Croft
Member since:
2006-12-24

Someone here needs to install aspell.

Reply Score: 2

Was nearly there last time I looked
by jabjoe on Wed 16th Feb 2011 11:27 UTC
jabjoe
Member since:
2009-05-06

Enlightenment is a great bit of programming in these days of gluttonous bloat. It's very fast and very pretty. The problem I had with it was the stability. They sort that and I'll switch to it full time on the craptop, maybe even on the desktop. Much better looking that LXDE. (It could also do with a better file manager.) It does make you realise just how fat things have become, it's obscene how slow some things are on computers from even only a few years ago. Seams like you need to keep getting a faster computer just to stay still as things get fatter. Enlightenment goes against this trend, and that makes it a breath of fresh air.

Reply Score: 6

sorpigal Member since:
2005-11-02

Just run E16. It's just as light (more so) and solid as a rock. The only issue I've seen since 2003 has been when I was out of disk space, which can fuck over your configuration.

Reply Score: 2

fan
by ARUmar on Wed 16th Feb 2011 12:42 UTC
ARUmar
Member since:
2009-10-08

At this point, as we sink into our pleasant reveries, a
truly enormous squadron of pigs flies past . . .2011 evrything hits the fan

Reply Score: 1

OS News readers cannot read headlines
by pel! on Wed 16th Feb 2011 18:53 UTC
pel!
Member since:
2005-07-07

The majority of the comments were on e17.
The article was on the Enlightenment libraries.

There is QUITE a gap. Not even close.

Reply Score: 2

bnolsen Member since:
2006-01-06

ok,so what other aplication out there uses the EFL as a base?? ....nothing.... one thing i really despise is that this is another toolkit that tries to reimplement c++ in part instead of just using a subset of c++ like fltk does.

Reply Score: 2

TheGZeus Member since:
2010-05-19

Yeaaah... Not true...

Reply Score: 2

Who is using EFL
by metalf8801 on Thu 17th Feb 2011 16:38 UTC
metalf8801
Member since:
2010-03-22

Other than E17 who is using EFL to for their software?

Edited 2011-02-17 16:39 UTC

Reply Score: 1

RE: Who is using EFL
by TheGZeus on Thu 17th Feb 2011 17:23 UTC in reply to "Who is using EFL "
TheGZeus Member since:
2010-05-19

Samsung, for one, is using it for the main UI of a custom Linux-based OS.
iirc it's already used in a number of other embedded devices.

Reply Score: 2

Mobile phones
by Moochman on Sat 19th Feb 2011 01:18 UTC
Moochman
Member since:
2005-07-06

Any links to mobile phone apps using the Enlightenment libraries? Can apps be compiled for iPhone, Android NDK or webOS PDK? Is hardware acceleration via OpenGL ES supported? I ask because these are things that Qt has been demonstrated to be able to do.... But if Enlightenment can do them, it's nice to know there is an alternative...

Reply Score: 2

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by hehe60 on Sun 20th Feb 2011 14:42 UTC
hehe60
Member since:
2011-02-20

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Reply Score: 1