Linked by Thom Holwerda on Wed 16th Feb 2011 23:24 UTC
Games You'd almost forget it, but a few weeks ago, the Playstation 3 was hacked wide open - like a pristine cave deep in the world of Minecraft. This has let out all sorts of nasties, and now Sony is trying to clean up the mess. For once, I'm in full agreement with their position.
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v WTF?!
by apoclypse on Wed 16th Feb 2011 23:52 UTC
RE: WTF?!
by Thom_Holwerda on Thu 17th Feb 2011 00:12 UTC in reply to "WTF?!"
Thom_Holwerda Member since:
2005-06-29

What if Ford came to your house and remove the cupholders from your car - and Ford did this worldwide? And then, you would only be allowed to keep the cupholders if you agreed not to use public roads any longer?

Reply Score: 11

RE: WTF?!
by BluenoseJake on Thu 17th Feb 2011 16:38 UTC in reply to "WTF?!"
BluenoseJake Member since:
2005-08-11

So if you pay for something, and somebody(doesn't matter who) takes it away from you, is that not theft? I think it just may be.

Reply Score: 2

RE: WTF?!
by firl on Thu 17th Feb 2011 16:59 UTC in reply to "WTF?!"
firl Member since:
2006-03-16


I mean really in what fucking world do you live in where Sony stole the OtherOS feature from user? (



I think he is trying to point out the fact that, consumers purchased something that was then taken away. For some people it was like buying a phone to make phone calls, and then the company taking the feature to make a phone call away.

Reply Score: 1

RE: WTF?!
by somebody on Thu 17th Feb 2011 20:15 UTC in reply to "WTF?!"
somebody Member since:
2005-07-07

really... a choice? what choice?

a) i run games and i can kiss OtherOS goodbye
b) i run games, but at the same time my game console becomes brick who can only dream newer games? every new game comes with firmware update, which is mandatory before you play. ahhh, and even with old ones i can kiss multiplayer goodbye

i bought all-in-one machine (just like sony used to brag first 2 years), that can run only one after specified? you gotta be moronic sony fanboy. until they had no games they were so eager to spew the all-in-one bull,... which was taken away as soon as they had enough games to sustain advertising. sad truth... it wasn't taken away because of hackers, but to lower costs of sustaining hypervisor drivers

and this banning tells even more of the sorrow story how it sucks to be sony customer. in first 4 years sony did exactly 0, zilch, nada for the people who were complaining about online cheating. but, ... surprise... when their revenue comes into question, here we go.

i was a long time sony playstation fan, owned all so far... but, ps3 is last sony product i bought in my life. even games... (i buy whole lot of them and i used to buy all new to support developers) if they are sony made, i wait and buy used one, i only buy new from non sony companies.

Reply Score: 2

Yup, reasonable steps.
by umccullough on Wed 16th Feb 2011 23:54 UTC
umccullough
Member since:
2006-01-26

I'm also pretty much in agreement that this is the step forward.

The only thing that still irks me is the removal of OtherOS - with the only way to get it back to "hack" ones firmware, and thus become banned from PSN now.

Oh well, I don't own a PS3, so I guess I don't have the right to be angry ;)

Other thoughts: Many of the comments on that blog are goddamned ridiculous.

Reply Score: 4

RE: Yup, reasonable steps.
by Valhalla on Thu 17th Feb 2011 13:18 UTC in reply to "Yup, reasonable steps."
Valhalla Member since:
2006-01-24

Yep same here, I thought it was a shame that Sony removed OtherOS, but I really can't fault them for kicking pirates/cheaters off PSN, just as I didn't think it was wrong when Microsoft did the same with XBox Live.

Reply Score: 2

RE[2]: Yup, reasonable steps.
by somebody on Thu 17th Feb 2011 20:20 UTC in reply to "RE: Yup, reasonable steps."
somebody Member since:
2005-07-07

lol, it might help you to be angry if i tell you that in 4 years they did exactly nothing to improve online. no matter how people whined. and if hack wouldn't show, they would still do the same amount of work.

***online cheaters*** is just another sad excuse in the line of other sad excuses from sony. the only reason is to protect their revenue. like OtherOS wasn't taken away because of hack, it was taken to lower costs of maintaining firmware

Reply Score: 2

What about people needing replacements
by oiaohm on Thu 17th Feb 2011 00:02 UTC
oiaohm
Member since:
2009-05-30

apoclypse PS3 are using in some forms of data processing because there CPU is particularly good at particular operations.

When sony removed the other OS functionality this left a limited supply. So to restore the limited supply issue PS3 was hacked. Now of course sony could have gone the path of a fuseable link or equal that basically says this console has be opened up for running non PS3 software so is no longer valid to connect to PSN.

Most of the ones wanting PS3 for processing usage simply don't give a rats about PSN or Games. This is the problem. Pirates and cheaters are a side effect of the ones wanting access to the PS3 cell processor core. Sony is making the same mistake as always.

It had to be the pirates. Simple fact is the pirates don't have the tech. Just like real world pirates. Real world pirates did not make there own guns or weapons they stole them from Legal users.

Best way to avoid console being breached. Provide a way for it to be run with gaming disabled forever.

This is also useful at end of life of the console it can be recycled into something else other than a game machine.

Reply Score: 3

Simplest way.
by oiaohm on Thu 17th Feb 2011 00:04 UTC in reply to "What about people needing replacements"
oiaohm Member since:
2009-05-30

Data processing does not require video output.

So basically enable otheros and video output bricks for ever. Usb video out would have to be used for then on. What is not good enough speed for most games. But its more than good enough for data processing and light usage.

Reply Score: 1

umccullough Member since:
2006-01-26

Best way to avoid console being breached. Provide a way for it to be run with gaming disabled forever.

This is also useful at end of life of the console it can be recycled into something else other than a game machine.


End of life eh?

I hate to break it to ya, but when you're no longer interested in playing your PS3 games, I'll be buying your old console and pile of games for ~$20 at a yard sale so I can catch up on some cheap entertainment in my spare time.

So, if the console's end of life means it will never be able to legally play games again, then it will have very little resale value for people like me. Of course, Sony would like it that way I suspect.

I've got no time for online crap like PSN anyway - and when I sit down to play a game, it'll either be with my kids in the living room, or some solo game that I can play for an hour and turn off when I'm bored.

Reply Score: 3

Bringing back OtherOS
by Ncrdrg on Thu 17th Feb 2011 00:02 UTC
Ncrdrg
Member since:
2011-01-17

Sony should probably bring back the OtherOS option at this point. They lost the battle against the hackers. Banning any compromised console from the PSN makes a lot of sense.

For good PR, however, bringing back an option they removed would make sense. I mean, people lost an option they don't have to protect a console that is already hacked.

Reply Score: 3

RE: Bringing back OtherOS
by robojerk on Thu 17th Feb 2011 00:38 UTC in reply to "Bringing back OtherOS"
robojerk Member since:
2006-01-10

I haven't looked at the hacked firmware yet to see if anything else besides OtherOS and Piracy have been added. If those are the only 2 features added by hacking then bringing OtherOS back would make it so only the people you want to ban would get banned, plus make us that lost a feature be happy.

I always thought Sony should just release SDK to build custom apps for the PS3, and have some app store available. It would allow better browsers, indie games, streaming apps (Hulu, Amazon VOD).

If they wanted to stop supporting development on OtherOS they could just announce that no more updates on that feature would ever be released (but keep it on the system), and hopefully someone (or a big company like vmware) could write a new virtual machine for the system using the hypothetical SDK.

I think Sony has treated PS3 owners pretty badly since launch. They've removed features, been slow about adding new features.

Reply Score: 4

Cheating at video games?
by WorknMan on Thu 17th Feb 2011 01:37 UTC
WorknMan
Member since:
2005-11-13

You know, I have never understood the concept of cheating in video games. And I'm not talking about the kind of cheats you enable in a single player game to pass a troublesome spot where you can skip to the next level, or whatever. I'm talking about the kind of cheating you do online against other people.

I mean, how bankrupt does your life have to be for you to do something like that? And what exactly do you accomplish by doing this, other than reaffirming that you're a f**king loser? Maybe you can increase your gamer score or something, but it's not like some hot asian chicks are going to come over and blow you for your troubles. So why even waste your time? Are you so much of a failure in every other area of your life that you feel this is something you must do to feel better about yourself?

Mind you, I don't do any sort of online gaming and have no dog in this hunt; I am just curious about the psychology of those who cheat online.

Reply Score: 8

RE: Cheating at video games?
by jjmckay on Thu 17th Feb 2011 02:51 UTC in reply to "Cheating at video games?"
jjmckay Member since:
2005-11-11

You know, I have never understood the concept of cheating in video games. And I'm not talking about the kind of cheats you enable in a single player game to pass a troublesome spot where you can skip to the next level, or whatever. I'm talking about the kind of cheating you do online against other people.

I mean, how bankrupt does your life have to be for you to do something like that? And what exactly do you accomplish by doing this, other than reaffirming that you're a f**king loser? Maybe you can increase your gamer score or something, but it's not like some hot asian chicks are going to come over and blow you for your troubles. So why even waste your time? Are you so much of a failure in every other area of your life that you feel this is something you must do to feel better about yourself?

Mind you, I don't do any sort of online gaming and have no dog in this hunt; I am just curious about the psychology of those who cheat online.


One big reason why people cheat in online games is to boost their ego. It is the comparative mind to which many people are enslaved. It is a mentally constructed and conceptualized false sense of self.

It's the same reason many people buy expensive clothes or why people buy into any product offering exclusivity. I've seen Apple advertisements appeal to this desire. Why do people buy $30,000 Gucci purses? Exclusivity.

There's nothing necessarily wrong with game rankings, but taking them seriously is where it becomes insane. I think that's what you are seeing, too.

Another reason is that many people are sadist. They get gratification (sexual and otherwise) from dominating other people. They laugh as they do it too.

Sorry, the human species is dangerously insane.

Reply Score: 7

RE[2]: Cheating at video games?
by erak on Thu 17th Feb 2011 11:38 UTC in reply to "RE: Cheating at video games?"
erak Member since:
2006-09-24

You present good arguments. But one thing I don't agree on is


It's the same reason many people buy expensive clothes or why people buy into any product offering exclusivity. I've seen Apple advertisements appeal to this desire. Why do people buy $30,000 Gucci purses? Exclusivity.

A purse for $30,000 is of course OTT. But in general I don't see it just as exclusivity. You forget about the arts and craftsmanship. Buying certain clothes and accessories can be equaled to buying a painting. And I guess you see it as more OK to buy expensive paintings?

I can also pay extra for a brand that stands for craftsmanship or with a history of good craftsmanship, like Rolex.

Reply Score: 2

jabbotts Member since:
2007-09-06

At some point, the craftsmanship of a product is maximized and, for lack of further real value, synthetic value must be added through the luxury branding, artificial scarcity or whatever can be exploited. If our hypothetical Gucci purse sells for 30k, that same purse and build quality without the

Gucci logo sewn on will only sell for a few hundred. There is no real difference, purely market magic concocted to part fools from there money (though a fool paying 30k for a purse will probably be able to refill the wallet pretty quickly).

A luxury item is more like a hot air balloon's basket held up by the inflated brand it's strung under.

Reply Score: 2

RE[3]: Cheating at video games?
by r_a_trip on Thu 17th Feb 2011 14:17 UTC in reply to "RE[2]: Cheating at video games?"
r_a_trip Member since:
2005-07-06

I can also pay extra for a brand that stands for craftsmanship or with a history of good craftsmanship, like Rolex.

Interesting point of view, but using Rolex as an example of the craftsmanship argument is rather poor. It is (almost) universally accepted that a Rolex is primarily a status symbol. If craftsmanship is the defining factor, there is nothing wrong with the craftsmanship of, say, a Swatch watch (metal or not).

Then again, a Rolex is a far better Chick Magnet than a Swatch and using craftsmanship as a justification is far less pompous than other subterfuges.

Reply Score: 2

RE[4]: Cheating at video games?
by erak on Fri 18th Feb 2011 01:00 UTC in reply to "RE[3]: Cheating at video games?"
erak Member since:
2006-09-24

I don't own a rolex, it was just an example as I read about watches recently.

I don't know how to say this nicely but this sentence must be the most absurd I've heard recently:

It is (almost) universally accepted that a Rolex is primarily a status symbol.

You can't know the first thing about mechanical wristwatches. Rolex is one of the most respected watchmakers. Read up on their history of inventions and innovations.

I have full respect for swatch. They were created to save swiss manufacturing from the competition of electronic watches from asia. I actually own a swatch. But do you also remember what I said about history? Swatch is famous for electronic quartz watches, and that's a whole different deal than mechanical ones. Rolex and Breguet, for example, has made a name for themselves because of mechanical inventions for centuries.

Chick Magnet

I'm sad to hear you bring that up.

Reply Score: 1

RE[3]: Cheating at video games?
by WorknMan on Thu 17th Feb 2011 22:59 UTC in reply to "RE[2]: Cheating at video games?"
WorknMan Member since:
2005-11-13

A purse for $30,000 is of course OTT. But in general I don't see it just as exclusivity. You forget about the arts and craftsmanship. Buying certain clothes and accessories can be equaled to buying a painting. And I guess you see it as more OK to buy expensive paintings?

I can also pay extra for a brand that stands for craftsmanship or with a history of good craftsmanship, like Rolex.


The only time I would buy an expensive painting is if I could turn around and sell it to some idiot who would pay significantly more than what I bought it for.

As for watches, my watch costs around $30 and has 10x the functionality of a Rolex, and will probably last for years too. So yes, a Rolex is a waste of money, IMHO.

But getting back to the topic, at least wearing expensive clothes/watches might be enough to attract some hot chicks, and you might be able to get in their pants that way, so at least they have SOME value, assuming you need to attract shallow people. The only thing cheating in video games will get you is a date with your right hand.

Reply Score: 2

RE[4]: Cheating at video games?
by erak on Fri 18th Feb 2011 01:04 UTC in reply to "RE[3]: Cheating at video games?"
erak Member since:
2006-09-24

The only time I would buy an expensive painting is if I could turn around and sell it to some idiot who would pay significantly more than what I bought it for.

Of course, it's an investment. But also something nice to look at.

As for watches, my watch costs around $30 and has 10x the functionality of a Rolex, and will probably last for years too. So yes, a Rolex is a waste of money, IMHO.

Don't make this into a mechanical watches versus electronic war...

Edited 2011-02-18 01:17 UTC

Reply Score: 1

RE: Cheating at video games?
by Soulbender on Thu 17th Feb 2011 13:52 UTC in reply to "Cheating at video games?"
Soulbender Member since:
2005-08-18

And what exactly do you accomplish by doing this, other than reaffirming that you're a f**king loser? Maybe you can increase your gamer score or something, but it's not like some hot asian chicks are going to come over and blow you for your troubles. So why even waste your time? Are you so much of a failure in every other area of your life that you feel this is something you must do to feel better about yourself?


I think you have answered your own question. You'd have to be an incredible no-life loser to cheat.

Reply Score: 4

Comment by some1
by some1 on Thu 17th Feb 2011 02:08 UTC
some1
Member since:
2010-10-05

I think you're a bit too quick to agree with Sony. Sure, banning people who cheat or pirate games is fair, but what Sony says sounds more like they will ban anyone who rooted PS3. Including people who did it to run homebrew or Linux, not for cheating. It's not yet clear if they can actually do so, though.

In other words -- either homebrew/Linux or PSN.

Reply Score: 7

Solution
by andydread on Thu 17th Feb 2011 02:51 UTC
andydread
Member since:
2009-02-02

Stay the fuck away from Sony products. When you purchase something from Sony they still own it and can do with it what they please not you. I agree that if you cheat in online games you should be banned.

Reply Score: 6

RE: Solution
by cjcoats on Thu 17th Feb 2011 13:43 UTC in reply to "Solution"
cjcoats Member since:
2006-04-16

Agreed.

"I agree that if you cheat in online games you should be banned" -- and if you cheat like Sony and have your music CD's
install root-kits damaging someone else's PC, or if you retroactively kill product-capabilities that you advertised you should
be banned too!

Reply Score: 2

Comment by mutantsushi
by mutantsushi on Thu 17th Feb 2011 03:09 UTC
mutantsushi
Member since:
2006-08-18

OK, bar the cheaters and pirates too while they`re at it, fine.
What if you just bypassed their lock-down for legal, legit things, aren`t doing the above? That is pefectly legal in most locales AFAIK, so Sony is actually stepping quite beyond their press release. But no worries, it`s just cheaters and pirates and child porn-types... (next up: did you read WikiLeaks?)

BTW, I`m with Thom on Sony`s own actions removing OtherOS. OtherOS was an advertised feature of the product, ALONG with access to PSN. Saying `you`re free to not install updates (not quite, Sony rather likes pushing updates) and just not use PSN means giving up one advertised feature for another. Sony made and makes quite a deal of PSN being free vs. XBox Live, so this is certainly part of the PS3 experience.

If they come up with a technical means to bar cheating hacks, I`m all for it. But don`t give us this BS excuse, blurring the lines between things that aren`t the same. In any case, it just means people will work around Sony`s verification methods in order to keep using their cracked PS3`s on PSN.

Edited 2011-02-17 03:13 UTC

Reply Score: 3

RE: Comment by mutantsushi
by UltraZelda64 on Thu 17th Feb 2011 10:33 UTC in reply to "Comment by mutantsushi"
UltraZelda64 Member since:
2006-12-05

BTW, I`m with Thom on Sony`s own actions removing OtherOS. OtherOS was an advertised feature of the product, ALONG with access to PSN. Saying `you`re free to not install updates (not quite, Sony rather likes pushing updates) and just not use PSN means giving up one advertised feature for another. Sony made and makes quite a deal of PSN being free vs. XBox Live, so this is certainly part of the PS3 experience.

At this point, it would make more sense in every way but the legal sense to hack your PS3, enjoy the OtherOS feature, pirate their garbage (this worthless company doesn't deserve any more money from the people they've screwed), and don't even bother with their PSN crap. Oh, and *never* buy another Sony product again. F*** Sony.

Luckily, I gave Sony the finger during the PS2 era and vowed to never get a future Sony gaming system or any other Sony product. The only potential exception is in the future, getting a spare PS2 and controllers to play my existing PSX/PS2 games... but not until the system can be bought new for 50-80 bucks (or preferably less).

I have never got into Sony products, and I never will. Being a lifelong gamer and longtime Nintendo fan (I still hate what Sony started with the PSX for the most part and IMO Nintendo is still one of the true innovators), I was tempted by the Silent Hill and Devil May Cry series as well as Castlevania: Symphony of the Night.

Now, Symphony of the Night can be bought on Xbox Live Arcade, which is nice although I would prefer an actual disc over a digital, DRMed file. I don't care as much about DMC any more, so if I never see the originals re-released for another system it's no big deal. But if the original Silent Hill trilogy would be released for the Wii (without fancy Wii controls; ie. Classic Controller) or Xbox 360, I would not hesitate to get those and never look at the PS2 again.

Reply Score: 1

Who cares about PSN
by Jondice on Thu 17th Feb 2011 03:24 UTC
Jondice
Member since:
2006-09-20

As if everything Sony already did wasn't bad enough, any game you want to play on the Xperia platform that you already own on the PSN will have to be purchased again. So much for all their boasts of once you own a game, you own it across all supported platforms.

Sony, as usual, has no intent of keeping their word.

I haven't signed on to the PSN since they originally dropped OtherOS support, and I had bought a few games through it. Now I just use my PS3 mainly for watching Netflix disks and running Folding@Home.

Reply Score: 2

.
by Icaria on Thu 17th Feb 2011 09:33 UTC
Icaria
Member since:
2010-06-19

"Consumers using circumvention devices or running unauthorized or pirated software will have access to the PlayStation Network and access to Qriocity services through PlayStation 3 system terminated permanently,"

That covers a lot more than just, "Cheaters and Pirates". "Circumvention devices", like those you could use to unlock your PS3. "Unauthorized software", like any software that doesn't have a Sony license attached to it.

Is this a mere failure of imagination, or has Peter Bright hacked your login, Thom?

Reply Score: 2

All those closed systems
by Bully on Thu 17th Feb 2011 11:58 UTC
Bully
Member since:
2006-04-07

It's not good for anything except the money they make.
And that's the only thing it's about.
And that's exacly why i don't want xboxes, ps(what ever number), iphones etc.

Reply Score: 3

Will not have much effect in the end
by WereCatf on Thu 17th Feb 2011 12:37 UTC
WereCatf
Member since:
2006-02-15

This will not have the exact same effect as Sony execs are hoping for: pirates will still be able to continue playing single-player games, and there's loads of those around. It will only hinder pirates from playing multiplayer games. Cheaters will still be cheating, it has never required jailbreaks in the first place. So that leaves those people who have jailbroken their systems for legitimate purposes, like running homebrew and for development.

Basically, Sony will piss off (again) a small portion of population, there will still be cheaters but they'll be more careful in the future, and pirates will keep on pirating.

I personally feel it's hypocrisy to start banning everyone, including people running jailbreaks just for legitimate uses, considering how Sony has been treating people, removing features that were literally advertised as selling points of the PS3 system and all, and they've even gone so far as to rooting other people's machines (Remember the now-infamous Sony rootkit fiasco?)

Reply Score: 3

hahahahaha
by bruceleeroy on Thu 17th Feb 2011 21:28 UTC
bruceleeroy
Member since:
2011-02-17

All I have to say is hahahahaha for all the loosers that do get banned for cheating and for all the other looser who try to use a ps3 as a personal computer hahahahahaha you cheap bastards.

Reply Score: 0

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by hehe93 on Mon 21st Feb 2011 13:50 UTC
hehe93
Member since:
2011-02-21

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Reply Score: 1