Ever visited the website of famed iOS and Playstation 3 hacker Geohot? Or watched his video on YouTube? Or read his Blogspot blog? Well, you're now part of a criminal investigation. A US judge has given Sony complete and unrestricted access to all IP addresses which ever visited his website and blog, or watched his YouTube video.
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Member since:
2007-03-26
Member since:2006-02-15
The real problem with all this is not SONY asking for access to the logs; it is actually the judge giving them access to private information on individuals who have absolutely nothing to do with the case at all that is the problem!
I mean, no sane judge would do that. People who have no relevance to the case, who can't in any way or form affect the outcome of it, and who may not have even cared about the content of the sites and have just accidentally stumbled in there, are all now handed over to a party who is in no way interested in their well-being or even protecting the private information gained from those logs. There simply is no way in hell such would have gone forward here in Finland, and it smells downright corruption. Can it even really be legal in the US either? Just because a judge gives permission to something it doesn't necessarily make it legal.
Member since:2005-08-18
Member since:2007-03-26
Then someone comes along in the name of freedom, figures it out, and posts it on the internet. Repeatedly. And brings attention to themselves because they are the ones that did it. You would take no action? Are you an asshole/asshat for protecting your financial interests and those of your partners?
You've completely missed the point, so let me explain:
In your example, Sony's "cookies" would be their hardware and games, however the encryption keys are not. If anybody is pirating games or selling stolen consoles, then I don't think anyone on here would be crying foul about the legal system.
To reitterate: While encryption keys are there to lock the console down and thus reduce the chances of piracy - they are NOT there to make money nor are a trademarked / patented / et al product. They're litterally there just to lock customers out of their bought and paid for hardware.
Furthermore, using the keys does not automatically make someone a games pirate. Someone might use these keys to unlock "OtherOS" support - which quite frankly was the sole reason hackers went after the keys in the first place.
Sure people might abuse the keys for piracy, but then people might also abuse the console and use it as a weapon to bludgeon victims with. Clearly you can't assume that all PS3 owners are console-wielding madmen and likewise you can't assume that all people who read and/or distribute encryption keys are pirates.
This is the crux of the matter. Sony seem to believe that their own customers are all guilty before being proven innocent. That's simply not how the developed legal systems work - or at least not how they're supposed to work.
Member since:2005-06-29
Oh boy!
Except, of course, that Sony wasn't ahead of the game. Sales figures for the Xbox 360 and the Wii obliterated the PS3's, and the PSP isn't even a blip on the radar compared to the Nintendo DS.
Of course, you're omitting several facts - the most important of which is that in your example, before that someone posted the recipe online, the cookie maker had first gone into the homes of everybody who ever bought the cookies, only to remove the chocolate chips form them. Even though the cookies were advertised as "chocolate chip cookies" for years, the cookie maker decided to go into everybody's homes and removed the chocolate chips from those cookies - stating you could only get them back if you promised to hand them over the rest of the cookie (leaving you with only the chocolate chips).
Suddenly it makes a little more sense for that someone to post the recipe online so you can bring the cookies you bought back to their original state, right?
Sony is the criminal - not Geohot. Well, he might be a criminal because of the corporate-run US justice system, but heck, that's a joke anyway.
Member since:2005-08-18
What Sony wants and what they should be allowed to do are two entirely different things. I can understand why they want the this information although it's an incredible display of unethical behavior and questionable judgment.
lets put this in context of your cookie example. Lets say the competition put ads in newspapers about their product and also marketed it online. Now the original cookie company comes along and get subpoenas that requests those newspapers to divulge the name and address of everyone who read the competitors ads and the same for everyone who saw the online marketing campaign.
It should be pretty obvious why this, and consequently Sony's request, is entirely unacceptable.
Member since:2005-07-06
However this doesn't change the fact that Sony are asshats that I purposefully avoid doing business with.
Absolutely. I've loved Sony's digital cameras, still and video. Loved Vegas, Acid. I've got two 10 year old DVD players still chugging away, despite being subjected to peanut butter multiple times (don't ask).
However my wife's digital camera was the last Sony product I purchased, ever. They're tactics and practices are deplorable, and I won't be a customer anymore.
Member since:
2005-11-15
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2007-08-05
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Member since:2005-07-06
Member since:
2005-08-18
While I can to some degree understand the argument for the logs of IP addresses that downloaded the zip with the hack the requests to YouTube and Twitter is just downright disturbing. Sony have no business finding out what I or anyone else have or have not watched on Youtube nor is it any of their business who or what has been corresponded on Twitter. Even more so since this has NO bearing on the case at all, it's just Sony wanting to get their hands on anyone who has ever had anything to do with the hack. It's disgusting.
Welcome to the corporate fascist state.
Edited 2011-03-07 00:48 UTC
Member since:2006-02-15
No bearing? It would seem to have everything to do with the case. "
How exactly? SONY's two arguments are that they need to know where all the visitors are from so they can try to move the case to San Fransisco on that basis, and that they need to prove Geohot was distributing jailbreak.zip.
The problem with argument number 1 is that the location of the visitors is irrelevant. It is Geohot that is the accused one, not the visitors, and even then not all the visitors had anything to do with Geohot or his jailbreak at all.
The problem with argument number 2 is that Geohot distributing jailbreak.zip was never even in dispute whatsoever, and again the personal information of the people who downloaded the file is irrelevant to the case. You could argue that SONY needs to know how many times the zip file was downloaded, but that is again doable without seeking for personal information on the people.
With those two problems combined we get a third one: visitors to his Twitter and YouTube posts are irrelevant to the court case, individually and as a whole.
Member since:2005-08-18
Really now. Pray tell, why does Sony need to know who every individual is who watched Hotz video on YouTube? How does this in anyway at all concern Hotz possible violation of the DMCA and Sony's copyright? Oh yeah, not at all. Me or anyone else watching his video has nothing to do with the case.
But I guess when you don't really have a case you get a bit desperate.
Member since:2006-04-07
Member since:
2011-03-07
Member since:2005-07-22
Yeah right and we all know how accurate IP addresses are.
Hands up how many readers have an IP Addy that changes?
Good. Now will someone tell SONY and their dumbass lawyers that using the IP address of thos who viewed the video is just going to get them sued when people who have never viewd the video etc take umbridge at their sudden removal from the PSN and do what comes naturally and sue the living daylights out of them.
Member since:2010-02-08
Member since:2005-08-18
Well, the really creepy thing is, and this should really be the topic here, is not that they only requested the IP addresses but the accounts and all known personal information about those who viewed the videos and sent Hotz twitter messages. This is much, much more serious than just IP addresses.
Member since:
2006-12-05
...and I never have, and never will own or use a PS3. Gotta love the US legal system.
I've been anti-Sony since the original PlayStation days (longtime Nintendo/Sega fan and classic gamer here), although I did get a PS2 for a few original PSX and PS2 games. I vowed to completely avoid any gaming hardware/software Sony makes/publishes (previously gaming was the only exception; I never bought any other Sony garbage, aside from a few CDs and DVDs under a Sony record label/film studio).
I have since ditched Sony, and I don't pay attention to any PS3 gaming news; Wii and Xbox 360 are good enough for me (and if they weren't, they would have to do, because Sony can go to hell for all I care). When it comes to Sony, I have always only been interested in the ridiculous things they've been doing against their own "customers" and watching the company shoot themselves in the foot over and over again, and I always get a kick out of seeing them get slammed by another company (PS3 imports banned in Europe for a week is the latest--GO GO LG!!!). Sony news can actually be quite amusing.
It's ironic; I have visited GeoHot's site, watched his "Light It Up Contest" video on YouTube with amusement a few times, read countless articles on the related news on here, Slashdot and other sites, and now Sony gets access to much of my information for a downright retarded "criminal" case. All I can say is, GeoHot, good luck--beat these pricks in the courtroom, make jailbreaking on non-mobile devices legal as it is mobile. I have no interest in buying, let alone jailbreaking, a PS3--but companies should not be able to beat their own customers around like this.
Sony, I think I speak for many of us, when I say: f--k OFF AND DIE.
Edited 2011-03-07 01:45 UTC
Member since:
2005-07-24
I hope they make me a part of this lawsuit. I would be absolutely thrilled to pieces!
I would make such a mockery of Sony's actions you would have to be there to believe it!
I'm not going to reveal exactly why, nor would I until actually defending myself ( I am about 100% positive they now have my [near-static] IP address ). This could get REALLY FUN, FAST!
I'm not joking!
PLEASE, SONY, PLEASE!!
Hell, I'll pay your lawyers if I don't make a fool out of y'all! I PROMISE!
--The loon
Member since:2010-03-08
Member since:2007-03-26
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2010-03-02
Member since:
2006-01-14
I find it absurd that Sony is throwing the book at this guy for breaking the security on their Sony Playstation 3. Sony broke the security on far many more machines with their rootkit and they didn't spend one second trying to pull it out of existence. The Judge should really ask them how their doing on recovering all those infectious CDs.
Member since:2008-05-26
Wrong company there - the CDs were SonyBMG, not Sony Computer Entertainment. It's like asking the tour guide at the Hoover Dam to fix your vacuum cleaner.
Member since:
2010-04-09
Member since:
2010-04-09
erk: C0 CE FE 84 C2 27 F7 5B D0 7A 7E B8 46 50 9F 93 B2 38 E7 70 DA CB 9F F4 A3 88 F8 12 48 2B E2 1B
riv: 47 EE 74 54 E4 77 4C C9 B8 96 0C 7B 59 F4 C1 4D
pub: C2 D4 AA F3 19 35 50 19 AF 99 D4 4E 2B 58 CA 29 25 2C 89 12 3D 11 D6 21 8F 40 B1 38 CA B2 9B 71 01 F3 AE B7 2A 97 50 19
R: 80 6E 07 8F A1 52 97 90 CE 1A AE 02 BA DD 6F AA A6 AF 74 17
n: E1 3A 7E BC 3A CC EB 1C B5 6C C8 60 FC AB DB 6A 04 8C 55 E1
K: BA 90 55 91 68 61 B9 77 ED CB ED 92 00 50 92 F6 6C 7A 3D 8D
Da: C5 B2 BF A1 A4 13 DD 16 F2 6D 31 C0 F2 ED 47 20 DC FB 06 70
Member since:2008-04-10
Member since:2009-02-19
Member since:2007-03-26
riv: 47 EE 74 54 E4 77 4C C9 B8 96 0C 7B 59 F4 C1 4D
pub: C2 D4 AA F3 19 35 50 19 AF 99 D4 4E 2B 58 CA 29 25 2C 89 12 3D 11 D6 21 8F 40 B1 38 CA B2 9B 71 01 F3 AE B7 2A 97 50 19
R: 80 6E 07 8F A1 52 97 90 CE 1A AE 02 BA DD 6F AA A6 AF 74 17
n: E1 3A 7E BC 3A CC EB 1C B5 6C C8 60 FC AB DB 6A 04 8C 55 E1
K: BA 90 55 91 68 61 B9 77 ED CB ED 92 00 50 92 F6 6C 7A 3D 8D
Da: C5 B2 BF A1 A4 13 DD 16 F2 6D 31 C0 F2 ED 47 20 DC FB 06 70
I was wondering how long it would be before someone posted that.
edit: in fact, as I've quoted it, does that make me a criminal now too?
Edited 2011-03-07 11:11 UTC
Member since:2006-12-05
riv: 47 EE 74 54 E4 77 4C C9 B8 96 0C 7B 59 F4 C1 4D
pub: C2 D4 AA F3 19 35 50 19 AF 99 D4 4E 2B 58 CA 29 25 2C 89 12 3D 11 D6 21 8F 40 B1 38 CA B2 9B 71 01 F3 AE B7 2A 97 50 19
R: 80 6E 07 8F A1 52 97 90 CE 1A AE 02 BA DD 6F AA A6 AF 74 17
n: E1 3A 7E BC 3A CC EB 1C B5 6C C8 60 FC AB DB 6A 04 8C 55 E1
K: BA 90 55 91 68 61 B9 77 ED CB ED 92 00 50 92 F6 6C 7A 3D 8D
Da: C5 B2 BF A1 A4 13 DD 16 F2 6D 31 C0 F2 ED 47 20 DC FB 06 70
I was wondering how long it would be before someone posted that.
edit: in fact, as I've quoted it, does that make me a criminal now too? "
Man, if Sony could count the number of times you've even glanced over that code with your eyes, I would be so so freaking screwed. LMAO. You wouldn't imagine how many times I have seen that code posted on the Slashdot comments section of various Sony-related articles. Add another to that. LOL. And now I'm re-quoting it--oops!
But really, I'm not even a programmer, so I wouldn't be able to a damn thing with that code--it's all garbage to me. The fact that I will never own a PS3 or another post-PS2 system... makes it even more so. It's disgusting; it's like Sony protects this it as if it were their corporate nutsack or something. some of the interviews of George Hotz seem to make it clear that his jailbreaking is really no different on PS3 than iPhone and doesn't directly allow piracy using his method (as he claims piracy was traditionally done some other way.
Some interesting interviews:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tG9r7cCpk_g - Geohot G4 Interview
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z0FJ5Jimj2w - Some other interview of him
[Ironically, the G4 interview shows part of the code itself... heh.]
Edited 2011-03-07 14:38 UTC
Member since:2006-02-15
riv: 47 EE 74 54 E4 77 4C C9 B8 96 0C 7B 59 F4 C1 4D
pub: C2 D4 AA F3 19 35 50 19 AF 99 D4 4E 2B 58 CA 29 25 2C 89 12 3D 11 D6 21 8F 40 B1 38 CA B2 9B 71 01 F3 AE B7 2A 97 50 19
R: 80 6E 07 8F A1 52 97 90 CE 1A AE 02 BA DD 6F AA A6 AF 74 17
n: E1 3A 7E BC 3A CC EB 1C B5 6C C8 60 FC AB DB 6A 04 8C 55 E1
K: BA 90 55 91 68 61 B9 77 ED CB ED 92 00 50 92 F6 6C 7A 3D 8D
Da: C5 B2 BF A1 A4 13 DD 16 F2 6D 31 C0 F2 ED 47 20 DC FB 06 70
I was wondering how long it would be before someone posted that.
edit: in fact, as I've quoted it, does that make me a criminal now too? "
Oo, me too, me too!!
Oh, wait, posting such stuff isn't illegal here :<
Member since:2005-06-29
riv: 47 EE 74 54 E4 77 4C C9 B8 96 0C 7B 59 F4 C1 4D
pub: C2 D4 AA F3 19 35 50 19 AF 99 D4 4E 2B 58 CA 29 25 2C 89 12 3D 11 D6 21 8F 40 B1 38 CA B2 9B 71 01 F3 AE B7 2A 97 50 19
R: 80 6E 07 8F A1 52 97 90 CE 1A AE 02 BA DD 6F AA A6 AF 74 17
n: E1 3A 7E BC 3A CC EB 1C B5 6C C8 60 FC AB DB 6A 04 8C 55 E1
K: BA 90 55 91 68 61 B9 77 ED CB ED 92 00 50 92 F6 6C 7A 3D 8D
Da: C5 B2 BF A1 A4 13 DD 16 F2 6D 31 C0 F2 ED 47 20 DC FB 06 70
"I was wondering how long it would be before someone posted that.
edit: in fact, as I've quoted it, does that make me a criminal now too?
[q]Oo, me too, me too!!
Oh, wait, posting such stuff isn't illegal here :<
Oh bugger.
Edited 2011-03-07 15:16 UTC
Member since:2005-08-18
Member since:2007-10-18
Member since:2006-01-26
riv: 47 EE 74 54 E4 77 4C C9 B8 96 0C 7B 59 F4 C1 4D
pub: C2 D4 AA F3 19 35 50 19 AF 99 D4 4E 2B 58 CA 29 25 2C 89 12 3D 11 D6 21 8F 40 B1 38 CA B2 9B 71 01 F3 AE B7 2A 97 50 19
R: 80 6E 07 8F A1 52 97 90 CE 1A AE 02 BA DD 6F AA A6 AF 74 17
n: E1 3A 7E BC 3A CC EB 1C B5 6C C8 60 FC AB DB 6A 04 8C 55 E1
K: BA 90 55 91 68 61 B9 77 ED CB ED 92 00 50 92 F6 6C 7A 3D 8D
Da: C5 B2 BF A1 A4 13 DD 16 F2 6D 31 C0 F2 ED 47 20 DC FB 06 70
Whoops, I accidentally the whole thing.
Member since:
2006-03-20
Member since:
2009-06-09
Member since:2006-12-05
Same here--I just love watching Sony get f***ed by other companies over patents and other "IP" crap. Hey, remember that patent on vibrating controllers Microsoft and Sony were sued over? Haha, Sony kept defending... and defending... and defending... until they *finally* have to pay up. Microsoft just paid upfront to get the lawsuit off their hairs before it even really started; meanwhile, Nintendo was not attacked.
Sony is just a bunch of dumb, arrogant and selfish pricks.
Edited 2011-03-07 16:31 UTC
Member since:
2010-04-27
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2005-11-22
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2010-03-08
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2006-10-31
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2009-06-09
Sony as a consumer-friendly electronics mega-company is technically over. Sony's most successful electronic product today is an electronic card system called FeliCa. This is not honestly related to snazzy consumer appliances.
Sony needs to make something else like innovated ISA (instruction set architecture) chips or something.
Member since:
2010-07-29
I really disagree with the way Sony is handling this. ALL the console and mobile makers out there should give access to homebrew development and a way of accessing that kind of material so we have more options than overpriced (or even underpriced) tat.
I realise that certain people will have unlocked their PS3's for nefarious or piracy purposes, but for the few seconds I contemplated it, nothing could have been further from my mind.
Never been one of Sonys biggest fans - never had anything other than an MD Walkman which I had for two weeks before it was stolen, the PS3 which I have now was given to me as a present, and the one purchase I have made I'm having doubts about (a new VPC21 3D Vaio laptop).
Actually I seem to have forgotten why I was commenting in the first place....hmmm. Oh well. Too bad Sony aren't a little more open with the PS3 as they could probably have avoided this in the first place - and also advertising a product as having a particular feature then hiding behind their EULA when taking that feature away (just because they can) is obviously not going to instill a huge amount of consumer confidence is it.
I hope GeoHot does well, and is able to walk away from this without being stepped all over by Sony.
Member since:
2008-08-27
Member since:
2006-01-17
The guy was just naively thinking noone would be going after him. You post that kind of stuff using Tor and remain anonymous.
But he wanted attention and fame, so now he's paying the price.
However it can't be stopped now. Everyone has the exploit recipe and situation will be as with the PS2. While Microsoft doesn't care, Sony needs to make a profit with PS3. Piracy on the PS3 ruins it for them.
Also, it's a PR nightmare going after a 21 yr old, innocent looking guy just for revenge.