Linked by David Adams on Wed 30th Mar 2011 15:38 UTC, submitted by John
Apple Techcrunch is reporting from the usual "reliable sources" that one reason why there was no discussion of iOS 5 at the iPad 2 unveiling was that iOS 5 is going to be delayed until the fall, even though previous iOS updates have been done in the spring, making it a tradition of sorts. Furthermore, the upcoming WWDC will be "software only" and will not include the unveiling of any new hardware, in particular the iPhone 5, which will presumably be released concurrently with the iOS update.
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Comment by Thom_Holwerda
by Thom_Holwerda on Wed 30th Mar 2011 16:08 UTC
Thom_Holwerda
Member since:
2005-06-29

I'd say that not releasing a new iPhone at the usual interval is a sign of what I - and many, more intelligent people with me - have been predicting for about 18 months now: a single company such as Apple cannot possibly keep up with the hardware development cycle of all other phone makers. Apple insists on doing most of the things on their own, which has its advantages - but as history has shown, it will eventually come back to bite you in your ass. That's why Apple was the last with a 1Ghz phone, and now will be woefully behind with stepping into the multicore race.

Of course, the usual suspects will chime in with how processor speed and such doesn't matter - and they are just as wrong now as they were back when Apple was trying to sell outdated and underspecced PowerPC processors. The numbers do matter. We geeks may not like it, but that doesn't make it any less true.

Apple will have to sell the iPhone on software alone. Considering most people around me seem to buy a phone based on teh shiny-factor, that might be a harder sell than they think.

Edited 2011-03-30 16:08 UTC

Reply Score: 1

RE: Comment by Thom_Holwerda
by jtfolden on Wed 30th Mar 2011 16:43 UTC in reply to "Comment by Thom_Holwerda"
jtfolden Member since:
2005-08-12

Is there any hard evidence whatsoever that the change in release schedule is due to having trouble "keeping up"?

Releases have been on an almost traditional, annual schedule until now (which explains more on the timing of release for a 1Ghz phone than anything else).

Reply Score: 1

RE: Comment by Thom_Holwerda
by Cymro on Wed 30th Mar 2011 16:52 UTC in reply to "Comment by Thom_Holwerda"
Cymro Member since:
2005-07-07

The 'woefully behind' is needlessly melodramatic, and actually I think it's usually only 'us geeks' that care about the numbers.

If the user-experience or games development were being hampered by the critical need for a CPU upgrade I would agree with you, but I see no evidence of that. It's only 3 months we're talking here! Only someone who hovers on tech web-sites really cares about that time-span.

I imagine any delay would be partly to do OS X Lion. Perhaps Apple would rather not release an iPhone 5 with iOS 4 and have their next-generation get criticism about still having poor notifications, lack of widgets, etc. As I said, a hardware update is not critical and Android phones, though more powerful, are hardly demonstrably slicker in any aspect of real-life usage.

I just don't know why you're on your soap-box about this. Apple have managed 4 iterations of the iPhone and 2 iterations of the iPad on time, so it's a bit premature to call the system flawed.

Chris

Edited 2011-03-30 16:55 UTC

Reply Score: 4

RE[2]: Comment by Thom_Holwerda
by WorknMan on Wed 30th Mar 2011 21:43 UTC in reply to "RE: Comment by Thom_Holwerda"
WorknMan Member since:
2005-11-13

The 'woefully behind' is needlessly melodramatic, and actually I think it's usually only 'us geeks' that care about the numbers.


I agree as well. In fact, I thought one of the main reasons for the iPhone/iPad's success was the fact that the average person DOESN'T care about specs much at all. Geeks will tout a dual core CPU, 1gb of RAM, USB, SD card, etc, while Joe Sixpack just gives them a blank stare.

It's more about the user experience (iOS being simple enough that a 2yo can use it) and the ecosystem (hardware+app/music/book stores+iTunes to tie it all together).

Reply Score: 2

RE: Comment by Thom_Holwerda
by RichterKuato on Wed 30th Mar 2011 17:44 UTC in reply to "Comment by Thom_Holwerda"
RichterKuato Member since:
2010-05-14

I agree partly. Doing everything internally would make it hard to keep up. But, I don't think Apple does everything internally.

It seems when they do decide to use make components themselves it has to do with cutting costs or having more control over integration or some such thing.

In any case they don't seem to be having problems keeping up. The way I hear it the reason they're last to adopt some of the latest specs is because of their design choices.

By the way none of this in the slightest bit seems to be a issue with consumers. Only geeks know or care about specs.

Reply Score: 2

RE[2]: Comment by Thom_Holwerda
by jtfolden on Wed 30th Mar 2011 18:08 UTC in reply to "RE: Comment by Thom_Holwerda"
jtfolden Member since:
2005-08-12

I have to agree... I have *never* heard a regular consumer ask about the speed of a phone before purchase. You might hear someone complain about if a phone is slow or lags but it doesn't translate into worries about processor speed the way it used to with computers, ages ago.

Only geeks care.

Reply Score: 1

Thom_Holwerda Member since:
2005-06-29

You're not getting it.

Nobody *asked* about processor speed either. Yet, when the salesman states this one has bmgrth Ghz, and that one bmgrth+1 Ghz for the same price, people will be tempted to for the latter. They don't care on a conscious level - they care on a sub-conscious level. Moar = better.

That's how man works. That's why we're getting so fat here in the west.

Reply Score: 1

RE[4]: Comment by Thom_Holwerda
by jtfolden on Wed 30th Mar 2011 18:55 UTC in reply to "RE[3]: Comment by Thom_Holwerda"
jtfolden Member since:
2005-08-12

You're not getting it.

Nobody *asked* about processor speed either. Yet, when the salesman states this one has bmgrth Ghz, and that one bmgrth+1 Ghz for the same price, people will be tempted to for the latter. They don't care on a conscious level - they care on a sub-conscious level. Moar = better.

That's how man works. That's why we're getting so fat here in the west.


I think you intentionally don't get it and you're inventing a scenario just to suit your agenda (whether it be pageviews or something else). Sales people push a lot of buzzwords at people but cpu speed is not high on the list, ime.

They care about apps, connectivity, cameras, storage, screen size, etc... things like cpu speed are not in the normal sales spiel when pushing a phone on every day consumers. Just take a look around a site like the phone section of bestbuy.com and see how often CPU speed is listed in upfront bullet specs. Most of the time you have to dig deeply for it.

(...and for the record, I have no dog in this race. I neither have nor want an iPhone...)

Btw, you seem to have ignored my very first enquiry to you? I guess there's no hard evidence.

Edited 2011-03-30 18:56 UTC

Reply Score: 1

Thom_Holwerda Member since:
2005-06-29

Btw, you seem to have ignored my very first enquiry to you? I guess there's no hard evidence.


I need proof for an opinion? You can never prove this. It's just something that fits well within an established pattern.

Reply Score: 1

RE[6]: Comment by Thom_Holwerda
by jtfolden on Wed 30th Mar 2011 19:05 UTC in reply to "RE[5]: Comment by Thom_Holwerda"
jtfolden Member since:
2005-08-12

"Btw, you seem to have ignored my very first enquiry to you? I guess there's no hard evidence.


I need proof for an opinion? You can never prove this. It's just something that fits well within an established pattern.
"

You don't need proof but it isn't a credible opinion, nor does it fit, if there's nothing to back it up. The delay (and it isn't really a delay as nothing had even been announced) could be for any number of reasons. It could be a change purely due to strategic marketing decisions this year (pushing new iPads in the spring and iPhones in the fall, for example). Maybe the new iOS simply isn't ready and they don't want to rush out an iPhone 5 running 4.x software.

Without evidence, one theory is no more likely over any other.

Reply Score: 1

Thom_Holwerda Member since:
2005-06-29

The new iOS isn't ready?

So you mean they don't have the manpower to finish it on their regular schedule? What would cause such a lack of manpower, hmm? You realise that actually fits within my theory, right?

Of course, it could be any number of reasons. However, if you look at the past, it's not at all odd to assume that it could be because Apple is trying to do too much.

Reply Score: 1

RE[4]: Comment by Thom_Holwerda
by lindkvis on Sat 2nd Apr 2011 11:53 UTC in reply to "RE[3]: Comment by Thom_Holwerda"
lindkvis Member since:
2006-11-21

Nobody *asked* about processor speed either. Yet, when the salesman states this one has bmgrth Ghz, and that one bmgrth+1 Ghz for the same price, people will be tempted to for the latter. They don't care on a conscious level - they care on a sub-conscious level. Moar = better.


Actually. You're the only one in this thread that doesn't get it. I have never, ever, ever in my life had a salesman tell me how many MHz a mobile phone processor has and I have never heard a non-geek knowing how many MHz his mobile phone has.

People don't care. When they buy a phone they expect it to be "fast enough" and they extremely rarely know any better. I sincerely doubt even most people working at the Carphone Warehouse or whatever the dutch equivalent is knows how many MHz a phone has.

It is the realm of the geek and it will remain the realm of the geek.

Reply Score: 1

RE: Comment by Thom_Holwerda
by arpan on Wed 30th Mar 2011 18:13 UTC in reply to "Comment by Thom_Holwerda"
arpan Member since:
2006-07-30

But it's because they are doing everything internally that their processor for the iPad is so much better than the competition, (CPU is as fast as the competition & the GPU is so much faster).

It is because of their partnerships that the iPhone screen has a much higher res than the competition.

It is because of the OS that they got a head-start in this generation of phones & tablets.

Apple likes to differentiate itself. In the past, a decade ago, that was considered a weakness. But I can't see how, considering their success in the last 5 years, that you can say that any more.

Edited 2011-03-30 18:15 UTC

Reply Score: 2

RE: Comment by Thom_Holwerda
by Bill Shooter of Bul on Wed 30th Mar 2011 21:03 UTC in reply to "Comment by Thom_Holwerda"
Bill Shooter of Bul Member since:
2006-07-14


Apple will have to sell the iPhone on software alone. Considering most people around me seem to buy a phone based on teh shiny-factor, that might be a harder sell than they think


Yeah, they do have to sell it on software. There will and have been time in which the iphone was really behind other smart phones hardware wise, other times they're way ahead.

But shiny-factor? Yes, yes indeed. But what is shiny factor? Well I'm glad you asked.

Shiny factor:

%10 battery life
%30 hardware specs (numbers alone, not actual benchmarks of anything particular)
%30 unicorn horn, ground
%20 graphic design of UI.
%30 unicorn horn, ground
%17 name recognition of phone name.
%13.7 Number of smiley faces in SMS app

The proof that this formula proves that I am right is left as an exercise to the reader.

*Note: percentages may not add up to 100% due to gravitational, accelerational, or any other distortional fields you may be in.

Reply Score: 4

RE: Comment by Thom_Holwerda
by tuzor on Wed 30th Mar 2011 21:27 UTC in reply to "Comment by Thom_Holwerda"
tuzor Member since:
2007-08-07

I'd say that not releasing a new iPhone at the usual interval is a sign of what I - and many, more intelligent people with me - have been predicting for about 18 months now


I bet these intelligent people were among the bunch that believed the iPad would flunk as would the iPod.
They seem to be keeping up with competition just fine when it comes to the iPad.
While I have to agree to some extent that they have too much on their plate right now, I believe the delay to September is also a strategic move.

As for MobileMe, the update is long overdue.
Time for Wireless syncing, iTunes music backups and streaming etc.

Reply Score: 2

RE: Comment by Thom_Holwerda
by kristoph on Thu 31st Mar 2011 08:22 UTC in reply to "Comment by Thom_Holwerda"
kristoph Member since:
2006-01-01

You are offering a criticism of a company based on a rumor of the delay of an un-annouced hardware platform which you know little about as well as an OS which you know very little about.

Do you find that at all credible?

Reply Score: 3

Delayed?
by rhavyn on Wed 30th Mar 2011 17:28 UTC
rhavyn
Member since:
2005-07-06

How can software and hardware that hasn't been announced at all, much less announced with a release date, be delayed?

Reply Score: 8

...
by Hiev on Wed 30th Mar 2011 19:58 UTC
Hiev
Member since:
2005-09-27

Bad news for Android, since the sole porporse of delaying it was to see what Apple had to offert.

Reply Score: 1

RE: ...
by mrhasbean on Wed 30th Mar 2011 21:08 UTC in reply to "..."
mrhasbean Member since:
2006-04-03

Bad news for Android, since the sole porporse of delaying it was to see what Apple had to offert.


Yes this was so obvious that you'd have thought even Thom could see it, but alas. And keep in mind...

Oct 2010: (http://techcrunch.com)
“We are very happy with the progress of Google Chrome OS and expect devices will be available later this year. We’ll have more details to share at launch.”


Mar 2011: (http://www.techworld.com.au)
Chrome OS netbook from Asus coming In June, report says ... Google debuted Chrome OS nearly two years ago, but the search giant and its partners including Hewlett-Packard, Lenovo, Toshiba, as well as Asus have yet to launch a Chrome OS-based netbook.


Should we read into this that Google are overstretched and don't have the resources to get Chrome OS ready for prime-time as they promised?

Edited 2011-03-30 21:11 UTC

Reply Score: 3

RE[2]: ...
by Thom_Holwerda on Wed 30th Mar 2011 21:20 UTC in reply to "RE: ..."
Thom_Holwerda Member since:
2005-06-29

Should we read into this that Google are overstretched and don't have the resources to get Chrome OS ready for prime-time as they promised?


Yes.

Reply Score: 2

RE[2]: ...
by Bill Shooter of Bul on Thu 31st Mar 2011 03:19 UTC in reply to "RE: ..."
Bill Shooter of Bul Member since:
2006-07-14

I think they're too busy dragging the corpse of chrome os back to the woodshed to release it. It needs to be killed. Bad idea up there with Buzz. Not everything Google does is a good idea.

But they are overstretched yes. Thats their official reason for not releasing Honeycomb. Its ready to be put in production devices, but they're a bit embarrassed at the code hacks that were necessary to get there.

Reply Score: 2

RE: ...
by Thom_Holwerda on Wed 30th Mar 2011 21:19 UTC in reply to "..."
Thom_Holwerda Member since:
2005-06-29

Bad news for Android, since the sole porporse of delaying it was to see what Apple had to offert.


Android delayed?

Reply Score: 1

v Comment by t3RRa
by t3RRa on Wed 30th Mar 2011 21:52 UTC
Setting the pace
by fuzzywombat on Wed 30th Mar 2011 22:26 UTC
fuzzywombat
Member since:
2006-11-21

Apple is no longer setting the pace of the smart phone market any more. It's pretty clear Android is leading that segment of the phone market and Apple is playing catch up at this point.

Tethering and wifi hotspot features were first to come on Android more than a year ago. It's being rolled out on iOS just recently but only for GSM iPhones. Android's OS wide voice input was introduced with Froyo (2.2) and there is nothing comparable on iOS. Apple bought Siri almost a year ago and yet there is no sign of OS level integration of speech input capability. Many new Android phones are using dual core arm processors but we probably won't see this for another three to four months on the iPhone. 3D image and video capture came first on the Android yet it's not something we'll see on iOS anytime soon. Android will soon make a big push into NFC (Near Field Communication) this year. It's not clear if Apple is going to have this capability on the iPhone 5. 4G Android phones will soon be coming out in droves while it's doubtful that iPhone 5 will do 4G.

Cloud music streaming introduced by Amazon is only on Android at the moment partly because of Apple's app store policy. Google is definitely working on their own cloud based music streaming service and I doubt Apple will allow that on the iOS so therefore it will be Android only as well. Apple bought Lala on December of 2009 and it fell into a black hole and disappeared. On a side note Apple also bought a mapping company but that also fell into the same black hole.

It looks like Apple is trying to compete against the world but clearly it's not able to keep up with Android and dozens of large companies building their business on it. The gap between Android and iOS is growing by the day and I just don't see Apple catching up.

Reply Score: 7

RE: Setting the pace
by Thom_Holwerda on Wed 30th Mar 2011 22:28 UTC in reply to "Setting the pace"
Thom_Holwerda Member since:
2005-06-29

Bingo.

Watch out though, apparently saying this out loud constitutes as trolling.

Reply Score: 2

RE[2]: Setting the pace
by rhavyn on Wed 30th Mar 2011 23:16 UTC in reply to "RE: Setting the pace"
rhavyn Member since:
2005-07-06

Bingo.

Watch out though, apparently saying this out loud constitutes as trolling.


It isn't trolling, it's mostly either factually incorrect or irrelevant. Seriously, the same group of people who poo-poo'd the iPod and claim that the iPad is a fad will continue to complain about how the iPhone doesn't come with 4G, 256TB of storage, a swiss army knife, this, that or the other thing. And Apple will continue to be the largest mobile device provider in the world, owning over 50% of the profits in that space. (Now someone is going to talk about sheep and cults and act like 10's of millions of people simply are unable to control themselves and buy Apple's products due to mind control or some other equally stupid thing).

On the flip side, it is a really good thing that there is strong competition in the phone space. I enjoy the rate of change going on there. I wish that there was a competent competitor to Apple in the tablet space, instead we have the clown car of desperation and failure.

Think maybe Apple understands something that everyone else doesn't? (There's a reason Motorola isn't 100% committed to Android)

Reply Score: 3

RE[2]: Setting the pace
by Cymro on Thu 31st Mar 2011 14:21 UTC in reply to "RE: Setting the pace"
Cymro Member since:
2005-07-07

Has anyone accused you of trolling? Disagreeing with you is not the same thing, so that comments looks a little petulant.

You're both cherry-picking features that have only arrived in the last few months. Dual-core CPUs on phones are so new that even the Nexus-S is only single-core, and my work one is barely out of the box.

Amazon's service is, what, days old and it's already an example of iOS failure, despite hundreds of thousands of iOS apps or services, some of which presumably don't exist for Android.

If Apple, as rumoured, release the iPhone 5 with an edge-to-edge Retina display, will Android devices have even managed something like the screen in last year's iPhone? Some prefer a bigger device with a bigger screen but the Retina Display, for me, is a huge plus for the iPhone.

It seems like you're only counting the successes on the Android side, but counting iOS's failures before they've even happened.

Chris

Reply Score: 2

RE: Setting the pace
by tyrione on Thu 31st Mar 2011 00:04 UTC in reply to "Setting the pace"
tyrione Member since:
2005-11-21

Ignorance is bliss.

Follow the Patents, not TechCrunch.

Reply Score: 2

iphone/ios/android who cares
by jimmystewpot on Thu 31st Mar 2011 13:32 UTC
jimmystewpot
Member since:
2006-01-19

Firstly let me state that I am a huge android fan and while there are some usability issues (for me I find the options to configure stuff impossible to find at times) I find the overall experience better (FOR ME) than iOS based devices.

Now.. I think it's clear based on Apple's business success that they would prefer to delay a product than to release something which will come across as haphazard or buggy. Apple users as a general rule hold themselves in pretty high esteem and don't like their glorified products being tarnished with these 'bugs' that people talk about. For example Antenna Gate or whatever it was called, the slow performance on the 3g when going to 4.0 etc. All these, and the responses to these show that apple would prefer to wait for the bugs to be fixed than to go to market. the users benefit and everyone benefits.. Setting the goals high in the apple camp just means that everyone else has to pickup their game to compete.

Now to Android, I've been using android for about 1.5 years.. and over that time I've seen it transform from a pile of steaming <this is a PG web site lol> to something which has transformed the competition in the mobile space. Having recently used my first honeycomb device I was pleasantly surprised by how much the overall user experienced had improved and hope that some of the features filter back into the mobile phone space soon.. however with the rapid pace of development maintaining two distinct platforms with all the handset vendor customisations is going to be a huge challenge moving forward which at the end of the day is going to either end with poor user experience or carriers basically providing an inferior product to what apple offers (i.e. regular untainted updates, which to me is THE distinction between the platforms unless your a nerd and run a custom rom).

Reply Score: 1