Linked by Thom Holwerda on Tue 12th Apr 2011 18:33 UTC
Internet Explorer So, have you installed Internet Explorer 9 yet on your Windows machine? No? Well, feel assured in the knowledge that at MIX11 today, Microsoft announced Internet Explorer 10, while also pushing out the very first preview release. Also, IE10 (can I call it IEX? Can I? Can I?) was demonstrated running on Windows for ARM.
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Hmmm ...
by WorknMan on Tue 12th Apr 2011 18:40 UTC
WorknMan
Member since:
2005-11-13

Does it have adblock+flash block? If not, it's irrelevant. Just my opinion, of course ;)

Reply Score: 3

RE: Hmmm ...
by ramasubbu_sk on Wed 13th Apr 2011 01:12 UTC in reply to "Hmmm ..."
ramasubbu_sk Member since:
2007-04-05

Adblock (kinda) is already there as "Tracking Protection" in IE9.

Reply Score: 1

RE[2]: Hmmm ...
by marcus0263 on Wed 13th Apr 2011 21:59 UTC in reply to "RE: Hmmm ..."
marcus0263 Member since:
2007-06-02

Been using Ad Muncher, I like it. No it's not free but honestly it's better IMO than Adblock on FF.

Reply Score: 2

RE: Hmmm ...
by Phyx on Wed 13th Apr 2011 09:51 UTC in reply to "Hmmm ..."
Phyx Member since:
2011-03-09

and FlashBlock via ActiveX filtering

Edited 2011-04-13 09:52 UTC

Reply Score: 1

RE: Hmmm ...
by Sauron on Wed 13th Apr 2011 10:56 UTC in reply to "Hmmm ..."
Sauron Member since:
2005-08-02

Have they got rid of ActiveX? If not it's again irrelevant! ;)

Reply Score: 1

RE[2]: Hmmm ...
by nowhereman on Wed 13th Apr 2011 17:29 UTC in reply to "RE: Hmmm ..."
nowhereman Member since:
2011-04-13

what's wrong with ActiveX?

Reply Score: 1

Comment by zizban
by zizban on Tue 12th Apr 2011 18:59 UTC
zizban
Member since:
2005-07-06

Apple entirely mainstream and boring and hated for it

The iPad called and wants an apology.

Reply Score: 3

Full vs. Partial hw acceleration..
by Brunis on Tue 12th Apr 2011 19:45 UTC
Brunis
Member since:
2005-11-01

I love the full hw acceleration thing.. and the new fast releases..

I wonder what MyFavoriteBrowser/YourFavoriteBrowser will do to catch up ?

Anyone know if Google/Mozilla/Opera is working on something like this?

Reply Score: 2

sukru Member since:
2006-11-19

Both Chrome and Firefox are working on hardware acceleration:

http://arstechnica.com/open-source/news/2010/08/chrome-7-shows-off-...

http://hacks.mozilla.org/2010/09/hardware-acceleration/

However MS seems to have a nice headstart, and their implementation performs faster. They also have the advantage to target solely DirectX, while others are multi-plarform.

Reply Score: 7

Lennie Member since:
2007-09-22

The whole full vs. partial hardware acceleration debate is mostly bull from Microsoft marketing department.

The people from Chrome haven't released a stable browser with hardware acceleration turned on by default yet.

See how they didn't test with Firefox 4 ? Which uses the exact same API's as IE from Microsoft on the Microsoft Windows platform and similair API's on Windows XP.

Reply Score: 2

Hiev Member since:
2005-09-27

I did the test in Firefox 4 and is slow as a snail and it doesn't render the page well.

Reply Score: 1

Lennie Member since:
2007-09-22

But was hardware acceleration enabled ?

At this point I haven't even found a piece of hardware at home or at work where acceleration works flawless all the time. That is atleast 10 different hardware configurations.

Not in IE or Firefox or Opera, so I can't even test it.

Usually IE9 just crashes if I try to use it, it also crashes Chrome (not just tabs) or I need to reboot the computer to get a proper working desktop again.

The things that do work and I'm able to test with hardware acceleration enabled IE is faster at some things, Firefox is faster at others. It didn't really matter much.

Usually not with a big difference though.

Edited 2011-04-12 22:33 UTC

Reply Score: 3

Hiev Member since:
2005-09-27

I dont't know if HW is on, Im using Firefox 4 as it comes out of the box for Windows 7, I assume it is.

Edited 2011-04-12 22:26 UTC

Reply Score: 1

phoenix Member since:
2005-07-11

Go into the Options, on the Advanced tab, and double-check that it's enabled.

Reply Score: 2

Brunis Member since:
2005-11-01

The whole full vs. partial hardware acceleration debate is mostly bull from Microsoft marketing department.

The people from Chrome haven't released a stable browser with hardware acceleration turned on by default yet.

See how they didn't test with Firefox 4 ? Which uses the exact same API's as IE from Microsoft on the Microsoft Windows platform and similair API's on Windows XP.


I conducted my own tests and hw acceleration in Firefox and Chrome is so slow calling it 'acceleration' is a stretch!

They might be using opengl/directX2/3D to composite layers and whatnot, but how is that useful? A speed increase in redraw of 10% .. oh my .. how about SVG? A little bling and animation and all but IE grinds to a halt.. sad.

I love my new default browser Firefox4, but something needs to happen on their so-called 'acceleration' ..

Reply Score: 2

smitty Member since:
2005-10-13

Most of the cases where Firefox is slower than IE in their demos has been shown to have nothing to do with hardware acceleration. It's nearly always slow javascript or DOM performance in some hotspot in the code that gets called 1000 times a second. For FF5 they added a little patch to cache 1 security check and ended up getting twice the performance of FF4 in some of those demos they were slow in, and there are lots of little performance bugs like that. They even forgot to turn on the profile-guided compilation for FF4, and switching that on bumped javascript performance by 10-15% without changing a line of code.

What IE has done really well is to create a bunch of demos, and then tune their browser around them. They've become the most common place to try out these new features, which means that because they tuned their browser against those tests they usually end up with an advantage. 3rd part tests would be much more fair, but at this point most people are just content to use the tests MS created.

Edited 2011-04-13 01:53 UTC

Reply Score: 7

r_a_trip Member since:
2005-07-06

They also have the advantage to target solely DirectX, while others are multi-plarform.

Advantage? IMNSHO, that depends on viewpoint. If you are joined at the hip to Windows, this might be a boon, but not if you are on a non-MS platform. As long as MS is not going to think multi-platform, IE is not going to be on my radar, no matter how good that browser gets.

Reply Score: 2

tomcat Member since:
2006-01-06

They also have the advantage to target solely DirectX, while others are multi-plarform. Advantage? IMNSHO, that depends on viewpoint. If you are joined at the hip to Windows, this might be a boon, but not if you are on a non-MS platform. As long as MS is not going to think multi-platform, IE is not going to be on my radar, no matter how good that browser gets.


They do think multi-platform. As in, XP, Win7, Win8, etc. What other platforms would you have them support? Linux? LOL!

Reply Score: 2

smitty Member since:
2005-10-13

They do think multi-platform. As in, XP, Win7, Win8, etc. What other platforms would you have them support? Linux? LOL!

No, they aren't supporting XP.

Reply Score: 2

nt_jerkface Member since:
2009-08-26

Meh, I don't like it because it makes some web fonts look screwy.

Flash is already gpu accelerated and is a better platform for game development.

Reply Score: 2

0brad0 Member since:
2007-05-05


Flash is already gpu accelerated and is a better platform for game development.


Flash sucks and needs to die.

Reply Score: 1

woegjiub Member since:
2008-11-25

However, flash cartoons are awesome, and so is Robot Unicorn Attack :p

Reply Score: 2

Mellin Member since:
2005-07-06

so we should use patent troll h264 that can't be added to open source browsers instead ?

Reply Score: 3

lordmorgul Member since:
2008-07-07

Opera is working on cross-platform (openGL) hardware acceleration, but it's not available in the stable version yet. There was one webgl-enabled build available for Windows: http://labs.opera.com/news/2011/02/28/

Reply Score: 1

supercompman Member since:
2008-09-14

These two articles explain the ridiculousness of IE claiming "full hardware acceleration":

http://weblogs.mozillazine.org/roc/archives/2011/03/the_myth_of_ful...

http://weblogs.mozillazine.org/roc/archives/2011/03/investigating_p...

Reply Score: 2

ARM ?
by Lennie on Tue 12th Apr 2011 19:58 UTC
Lennie
Member since:
2007-09-22

Really, this demonstration is running on Windows ARM ?

Where can I download a Chrome (and I presume Firefox looking at the tray) build for Windows ARM ?

Reply Score: 4

RE: ARM ?
by viton on Wed 13th Apr 2011 10:20 UTC in reply to "ARM ?"
viton Member since:
2005-08-09

Really, this demonstration is running on Windows ARM ?

http://www.engadget.com/2011/04/12/visualized-ie10-and-windows-runn...

Where can I download a Chrome (and I presume Firefox looking at the tray) build for Windows ARM ?

You can build it yourself, like these guys did:
http://techiser.com/acer-dx241h-packs-arm-cpu-google-chrome-browser...

Reply Score: 2

HW accel, blah
by pysiak on Tue 12th Apr 2011 20:00 UTC
pysiak
Member since:
2008-01-01

The more I hear each month about HW acceleration in browsers the more I feel my old Acer 1,6 GHz Celeron laptop (with crappy intel GFX) is not suitable for ... web :-(

I hate that, websites are getting more and more difficult to render on older machines and throwing GPUs at it is saying: we won't optimize ever.

If that keeps up I won't be able to add 2+2 or write an email.

I am not impressed as I don't see why I need a GFX card to have 2 webpages with flash and another one with fancy CSS3/HTML5 crap on it.

;-)

Reply Score: 17

RE: HW accel, blah
by Neolander on Tue 12th Apr 2011 21:16 UTC in reply to "HW accel, blah"
Neolander Member since:
2010-03-08

And you know the worst ?

Flash was a plugin, which you could easily uninstall and disable.

But with HW acceleration and fancy HTML5 stuff in all browsers, bloat is going to become part of the de facto web standards.

Reply Score: 6

RE[2]: HW accel, blah
by Hiev on Tue 12th Apr 2011 21:32 UTC in reply to "RE: HW accel, blah"
Hiev Member since:
2005-09-27

Saying HW is bloat for the browser is like saying Compiz is bloat for x.org.

Reply Score: 1

RE[3]: HW accel, blah
by 0brad0 on Tue 12th Apr 2011 21:48 UTC in reply to "RE[2]: HW accel, blah"
0brad0 Member since:
2007-05-05

Saying HW is bloat for the browser is like saying Compiz is bloat for x.org.


Compiz *is* bloat for X.

Reply Score: 4

RE[4]: HW accel, blah
by Hiev on Tue 12th Apr 2011 21:52 UTC in reply to "RE[3]: HW accel, blah"
Hiev Member since:
2005-09-27

I don't consider using the metal to give a better experience in the desktop is bloat, In the contrary, Who would want to use software accelerated desktop these days?, I certainly don't, not even smarphones are willing to.

Reply Score: 4

RE[5]: HW accel, blah
by 0brad0 on Tue 12th Apr 2011 23:22 UTC in reply to "RE[4]: HW accel, blah"
0brad0 Member since:
2007-05-05

I don't consider using the metal to give a better experience in the desktop is bloat, In the contrary, Who would want to use software accelerated desktop these days?, I certainly don't, not even smarphones are willing to.


It's not using the HW that is the bloat. It's the stupid useless eye candy that is the bloat.

Reply Score: 2

RE[6]: HW accel, blah
by Hiev on Wed 13th Apr 2011 00:10 UTC in reply to "RE[5]: HW accel, blah"
Hiev Member since:
2005-09-27

Then in your case is in the eye of the beholder.

Reply Score: 3

RE[6]: HW accel, blah
by lucas_maximus on Wed 13th Apr 2011 13:13 UTC in reply to "RE[5]: HW accel, blah"
lucas_maximus Member since:
2009-08-18

Useless eye candy is called "polish" ... Seriously my smartphone can render most sites pretty quickly ... if you have a desktop/laptop is struggling ... maybe it is time for a new one.

Edited 2011-04-13 13:13 UTC

Reply Score: 2

RE[7]: HW accel, blah
by 0brad0 on Fri 15th Apr 2011 00:02 UTC in reply to "RE[6]: HW accel, blah"
0brad0 Member since:
2007-05-05

Useless eye candy is called "polish" ... Seriously my smartphone can render most sites pretty quickly ... if you have a desktop/laptop is struggling ... maybe it is time for a new one.


It has nothing to do with whether the hardware can render it or not. It reduces the battery life for useless crap that doesn't gain me anything and takes up more memory doing so as well as mostly making the UI look very ugly. I want my smartphone to have as long battery life as possible and this "polish" works against that concept.

Edited 2011-04-15 00:06 UTC

Reply Score: 2

RE[3]: HW accel, blah
by smashIt on Tue 12th Apr 2011 22:04 UTC in reply to "RE[2]: HW accel, blah"
smashIt Member since:
2005-07-06

Saying HW is bloat for the browser is like saying Compiz is bloat for x.org.


it's not the tech that is bloat, it's what web-devs will do with it that is bloat

just remember when web-devs discovered java-script...

Reply Score: 2

RE[4]: HW accel, blah
by Hiev on Tue 12th Apr 2011 22:11 UTC in reply to "RE[3]: HW accel, blah"
Hiev Member since:
2005-09-27

No, WebDevs knew javascript a long time ago, is more like javascript in the browser stopped sucking badly in the recent years and now is safe to leverage its power.

Reply Score: 3

RE[3]: HW accel, blah
by Neolander on Wed 13th Apr 2011 06:51 UTC in reply to "RE[2]: HW accel, blah"
Neolander Member since:
2010-03-08

Saying HW is bloat for the browser is like saying Compiz is bloat for x.org.

I say that. Why would you need a powerful GPU to smoothly render basic things like windows and web pages ? E17 shows pretty well that you don't need it even if you're fond of crazy animations everywhere. GPUs are for heavy tasks like 1080p video decoding, 3D games, or multimedia creation, that power shouldn't be needed otherwise.

Using the GPU, in itself, is not that bad. But when it's useless, it's unneeded complexity, that's an unneeded source of crashes. And the worst is that it could actually become useful one day (cause you know, if it's there, devs will use it), because that would mean that our desktop and web would have become more bloated by the same order of magnitude than between the first Macintosh's OS and Windows Vista Ultimate.

Edited 2011-04-13 07:01 UTC

Reply Score: 4

RE[4]: HW accel, blah
by smitty on Wed 13th Apr 2011 07:02 UTC in reply to "RE[3]: HW accel, blah"
smitty Member since:
2005-10-13

"Saying HW is bloat for the browser is like saying Compiz is bloat for x.org.

I say that. Why would you need a powerful GPU to smoothly render basic things like windows and web pages ? E17 shows pretty well that you don't need it. GPUs are for heavy tasks like 1080p video decoding, 3D games, or multimedia creation, that power shouldn't be needed otherwise.
"
A lot of people want to play 3D games in their web browser. No one's saying the Google home page needs acceleration, but doing 3D and animations on the GPU just makes sense. Even if you don't need it, you'll still end up saving power and better utilizing the hardware on lower power devices.

Reply Score: 2

RE[5]: HW accel, blah
by Neolander on Wed 13th Apr 2011 07:16 UTC in reply to "RE[4]: HW accel, blah"
Neolander Member since:
2010-03-08

Even if you don't need it, you'll still end up saving power and better utilizing the hardware on lower power devices.

Battery life of my computer with the GPU turned off : 3h10
Battery life of my computer with the GPU turned on and idle : 1h40

Talk about power savings...

Anyway, do you really expect web developers to stay still with their current designs, while browsers offer much more power ? I'd rather say : prepare for the second coming of animated backgrounds and Flash websites. Those who have a powerful computer will see it smoothly and just rant about the reduced battery life, but the others will suffer.

Edited 2011-04-13 07:18 UTC

Reply Score: 2

RE[6]: HW accel, blah
by smitty on Wed 13th Apr 2011 07:19 UTC in reply to "RE[5]: HW accel, blah"
smitty Member since:
2005-10-13

Battery life of my computer with the GPU turned off : 3h10
Battery life of my computer with compositing : 1h40

Talk about power savings...

I thought we were talking about web browsers?
Anyway, do you really expect web developers to stay still with their current designs, while browsers offer much more power ? I'd rather say : prepare for the second coming of animated backgrounds and Flash websites. Those who have a powerful computer will see it smoothly and just rant about the reduced battery life, but the others will suffer.

Hey, cheer up. For people like you there is always links: http://www.jikos.cz/~mikulas/links/

Reply Score: 3

RE[7]: HW accel, blah
by Neolander on Wed 13th Apr 2011 07:52 UTC in reply to "RE[6]: HW accel, blah"
Neolander Member since:
2010-03-08

I thought we were talking about web browsers?

The OP mentioned power savings as a benefit of using GPUs in areas where they're not needed.

Hey, cheer up. For people like you there is always links: http://www.jikos.cz/~mikulas/links/

Have played with it during my Gentoo days, though not voluntarily ;) However, it just doesn't work.
1/Raw text mode has insufficient resolution, it wastes space on things like borders as it can't align on a sub-character boundary.
2/GUI browsers with images and Flash/JS disabled are feasible, in fact I do this with mobile browsers from time to time, when tired of their slowness. However, it doesn't work with many websites, which will assume that you have all of them available, on, and enabled. Like the Flash website without fallback HTML, websites which use JS menus, etc...

Besides, only some mobile devices of today can't render pictures well. But with things like GPUs, the bloat possibilities are endless. Just look at compositing : blurry windows borders, really ?

Reply Score: 1

RE[6]: HW accel, blah
by bfr99 on Wed 13th Apr 2011 18:25 UTC in reply to "RE[5]: HW accel, blah"
bfr99 Member since:
2007-03-15

Just like those with black & white TVs suffered when broadcasting in color became common.
You must realize that the current generation's "bloated" software becomes the next hardware generation's minimum requirements.

Reply Score: 2

RE: HW accel, blah
by Ventajou on Tue 12th Apr 2011 23:37 UTC in reply to "HW accel, blah"
Ventajou Member since:
2006-10-31

Right, instead web browsers should stick to making our desktop supercomputers display web pages and run javascript at the speed of a 486.

Reply Score: 4

IEX?
by AnythingButVista on Tue 12th Apr 2011 20:30 UTC
AnythingButVista
Member since:
2008-08-27

Sorry Thom but X for 10 is too been-there-done-that. They should call it IE Two... 10 being the binary version of 2. ;)

Reply Score: 2

RE: IEX?
by BluenoseJake on Tue 12th Apr 2011 20:49 UTC in reply to "IEX?"
BluenoseJake Member since:
2005-08-11

There already was an IE 2, it came with NT 4. Let's just call it IE 10

Reply Score: 3

v tards use IE
by andih on Tue 12th Apr 2011 20:51 UTC
RE: tards use IE
by nt_jerkface on Tue 12th Apr 2011 21:04 UTC in reply to "tards use IE "
nt_jerkface Member since:
2009-08-26

As long as this new IE "speaks the same language" as the other browsers around and support open standards, and not keep monopolizing the web with crappy MS standards(as MS always have done), I will happily welcome this new browser..


IE8 rendered HTML 4.01 strict by default. IE9 is all about HTML5 and better javascript performance.

Your view of IE is tarded.

Reply Score: 3

RE[2]: tards use IE
by viton on Wed 13th Apr 2011 07:21 UTC in reply to "RE: tards use IE "
viton Member since:
2005-08-09

IE8 rendered HTML 4.01 strict by default. IE9 is all about HTML5 and better javascript performance.

In theory...
In practice IE is still a pain in the arse
http://twitter.com/ie9bugs

Reply Score: 2

RE[3]: tards use IE
by nt_jerkface on Wed 13th Apr 2011 16:32 UTC in reply to "RE[2]: tards use IE "
nt_jerkface Member since:
2009-08-26

Oh looks some IE9 bugs.

Good thing Firefox 4 didn't ship with any.
http://quality.mozilla.org/events/2011/03/28/unconfirmed-bug-triage...

Reply Score: 3

RE: tards use IE
by Hiev on Tue 12th Apr 2011 21:09 UTC in reply to "tards use IE "
Hiev Member since:
2005-09-27

Is it cold under the rock you have been lived the last years?

Edited 2011-04-12 21:10 UTC

Reply Score: 3

Slightly OT - other pre-release browser news
by lemur2 on Wed 13th Apr 2011 02:15 UTC
lemur2
Member since:
2007-02-17

Firefox 5 And 6 On Track: First Aurora Release Posted

http://www.conceivablytech.com/6737/products/firefox-5-and-6-on-tra...
"Mozilla has taken the first major step in its new browser release schedule and transitioned Firefox 5 from its initial mozilla-central to the new aurora channel where the browser will be brought up to beta status."

Reply Score: 2

vodoomoth Member since:
2010-03-30

What I don't understand is why all browsers tend to copy the new kid on the block, ie Chrome.

After Opera deciding that only morons would want pinned tabs to retain their width, not shrink to the favicon and not shift to the left (which behavior we've had for years) and that the best thing to do would be to copy Chrome, now it's Firefox copying its crazily fast-moving version numbering scheme.

FF 3.0 came almost three years before 4.0 and now, there are three major-numbered versions planned for just this year, and that's besides version 4.0 ... wow.

Reply Score: 3

smitty Member since:
2005-10-13

FF 3.0 came almost three years before 4.0 and now, there are three major-numbered versions planned for just this year, and that's besides version 4.0 ... wow.

I don't think it's certain that the next 3 releases will be called 5, 6, and 7. They might end up being 4.1, 4.2, and 4.3 for all we know.

Reply Score: 2

No Netflix
by jefro on Wed 13th Apr 2011 19:21 UTC
jefro
Member since:
2007-04-13

Silverlight works on MS site but Netflix refuses to watch instantly. Called Netflix only to be insulted.

Reply Score: 1

IE8 is latest version for us!
by TusharG on Thu 14th Apr 2011 05:44 UTC
TusharG
Member since:
2005-07-06

My company is still sticking with Windows XP as upgrading 1700 laptops + 500 desktops is out of question at the moment considering the cost of upgrade to windows 7. We have only one choice of sticking to IE8. But we have choice of FF4, Opera 11 and Chrome 10 though on XP!

Reply Score: 2

ramasubbu_sk Member since:
2007-04-05

Try Opera, it is as good as others free friends. If you can't try IE9 on ur machines.

Reply Score: 1

Another killer blow by Microsoft
by lucas_maximus on Thu 14th Apr 2011 19:19 UTC
lucas_maximus
Member since:
2009-08-18

Everyone on here not long ago was chatting about Microsoft's demise because of ARM chip on laptops, because Windows was x86 and x64 only.

Now they have their core product running on ARM already. Office will be soon to follow, and there will be an emulation layer for older programs (ala XP Mode) for programs that absolutely need it.

As for tablets they will have the Win Phone 7 touch interface.

I certainly can't wait to have an arm laptop with long battery life running Windows 8 and Visual Studio and doing my dev work down the coffee shop ;) .

Internet explorer is now on a faster release cycle so we won't have such a dependency on older versions of IE.

Things are looking good web dev wise. All the major browsers now support HTML5 & CSS3 and even IE will have a faster release cycle ... at least on the desktop IE6 won't happen again.

In the mobile world Webkit is becoming the IE6 (I work regularly with several mobile web devs, who target webkit features) ... because it is the stationary target dev wise. Webkit will become the new IE6 but on mobile.

Sencha touch framework for example just doesn't work on a firefox browser. Chrome and Safari based browsers are fine (try it yourself).

Edited 2011-04-14 19:32 UTC

Reply Score: 2