Linked by Thom Holwerda on Thu 14th Apr 2011 21:41 UTC
Internet & Networking A major win has been scored in Europe against the content industry and several governments who are trying to impose censorship on the internet through ISPs. The European Court of Justice, the highest court in Europe, gave a preliminary opinion which states that no ISP can be forced to filter the internet, especially not enforce copyright.
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"imposed upon ISPs by courts"
by mrhasbean on Thu 14th Apr 2011 22:05 UTC
mrhasbean
Member since:
2006-04-03

What about ones imposed by governments? That's the one that needs addressing 'cause it's already happening in many so-called democratic countries outside of Europe.

Reply Score: 1

RE: "imposed upon ISPs by courts"
by Soulbender on Thu 14th Apr 2011 22:36 UTC in reply to ""imposed upon ISPs by courts""
Soulbender Member since:
2005-08-18

so-called democratic countries outside of Europe.


Since those would be outside of Europe the European Court of Justice have no jurisdiction there.

Reply Score: 4

mrhasbean Member since:
2006-04-03

Since those would be outside of Europe the European Court of Justice have no jurisdiction there.


Wow, who'd have thought What it would do is add credence to the arguments by those opposing the filters / have them dismantled in countries where they've been legislated. And if they don't outlaw them in Europe you can bet it won't be long before they're imposed.

Reply Score: 2

Soulbender Member since:
2005-08-18

Europe can't outlaw filtering in countries outside europe, obviously, so what would be the point? We cant make laws for other countries and saying "we have decided that doing what you're doing in your country is unlawful". It's like, say, Sweden would decide to outlaw filtering in the U.S. It's pointless and arrogant.
As I understand it this new "directive" (or whatever) would also apply to government forced filtering.
Now, officially condemning something that is happening somewhere else is an entirely different matter.

Reply Score: 5

smitty Member since:
2005-10-13

As I understand it this new "directive" (or whatever) would also apply to government forced filtering.

If the government merely instructed ISPs to do this, I think it would, but the ruling clearly states that legislators can enact laws forcing censorship. It just says that currently those laws don't exist and the copyright industry can't sue ISPs unless they do.

Essentially, they've moved the fight out of the lawyers hands and into the legislature. Money talks there as well, but they'll have to bribe a lot of people to enact these laws with no guarantee of success. As opposed to the current tactic which is to pay lawyers a bunch of money and threaten to sue everyone. So it is a big win.

Edited 2011-04-15 05:07 UTC

Reply Score: 4

dylansmrjones Member since:
2005-10-02

Well, the Danish legislators cannot legally enact laws forcing censorship, since the Danish constitution strictly prohibits any kind of censurship and other preventive measures in regard to information exchange.

Reply Score: 2

mistersoft Member since:
2011-01-05

Europe can't outlaw filtering in countries outside europe, obviously, so what would be the point?.


(1) For ourselves!!

(2) It makes it a lot harder for other countries(i.e. the U.S.) to 'fool' their own electorate into accepting practices that would be or going in the direction of being - a lot more draconian, less free in several ways, and more 'nanny state'{that's being polite} than what would be the new norm over the pond in Europe!

Reply Score: 1

RE: "imposed upon ISPs by courts"
by WereCatf on Fri 15th Apr 2011 00:33 UTC in reply to ""imposed upon ISPs by courts""
WereCatf Member since:
2006-02-15

What about ones imposed by governments?


As far as I understand (I am not a lawyer or even an experienced person in legal matters) this already covers that, too, unless the filtering has to do with criminal activities or criminal investigation.

Reply Score: 3

RE: "imposed upon ISPs by courts"
by evert on Fri 15th Apr 2011 08:30 UTC in reply to ""imposed upon ISPs by courts""
evert Member since:
2005-07-06

What about ones imposed by governments? That's the one that needs addressing 'cause it's already happening in many so-called democratic countries outside of Europe.


[1] democracy != freedom (this mistake is often made. sometimes, you might have more freedom under a dictatorship than in a democracy)

[2] we'll install a few proxies in europe :-)

Reply Score: 3

RE: "imposed upon ISPs by courts"
by Carewolf on Fri 15th Apr 2011 08:32 UTC in reply to ""imposed upon ISPs by courts""
Carewolf Member since:
2005-09-08

Government imposed blocking is still allowed - in theory. It has to consistant, predicatable and non-discriminatory. Randomly deciding to block pirate bay specifically would probably not fly, by being specific.

In fact in Denmark where ISPs are currently blocking the pirate bay on court order, will also have a consitition forbidding legislation that targets individuals and individual organizations, so it would be impossible to through legislation.

Now, the problem is what they will do when someone draw the child porn card, because will the legislation is technically invalid, we do have a law blocking specific child porn sites, there just no one who wants to sue the government for the right to watch child pornography.

Reply Score: 3

Possibly outlawed?
by WereCatf on Fri 15th Apr 2011 00:31 UTC
WereCatf
Member since:
2006-02-15

It doesn't mean Internet filtering is outlawed, it only means that ISPs cannot be forced to do it. They are free to do filtering if they themselves wish to, like e.g. if they get enough money from MAFIAA-like entities to do it.

It is still an important decision given the fact that those aforementioned entities have been trying to force ISPs to do filtering, even when the ISPs themselves do not wish to do it. This releases those ISPs unconditionally from such. Also, it could possibly pave the way for actual outlawing of most Internet traffic, though I highly doubt it would mean all of it.

Expect some ISPs now to actually start advertising that they offer unfiltered Internet access if some of the other ISPs in the same country/area make a deal with MAFIAA et. al. and start filtering. It will become a selling point now that there is no worry about MAFIAA coming after them.

Reply Score: 3

RE: Possibly outlawed?
by JAlexoid on Fri 15th Apr 2011 09:08 UTC in reply to "Possibly outlawed?"
JAlexoid Member since:
2009-05-19

To be fair, ISPs don't do it at their own will. Because filtering leads to loss of customers and costs money. And I doubt that the copyright enforcement monopolistic unions will be compensating these ISPs for filtering and loss of customers. In fact, there has not been a single instance where an ISP was payed for the filtering expenses.

Reply Score: 3

RE[2]: Possibly outlawed?
by WereCatf on Fri 15th Apr 2011 09:36 UTC in reply to "RE: Possibly outlawed?"
WereCatf Member since:
2006-02-15

In fact, there has not been a single instance where an ISP was payed for the filtering expenses.


Of course not as up until not MAFIAA-like entities have just threatened with court. Now that it's not possible anymore they'll have to pay ISPs in order for them to start/continue filtering. Some ISPs will most likely take the deal if those aforementioned entities are willing to pay enough, greed is just such a powerful force.

Reply Score: 3

RE[2]: Possibly outlawed?
by Lennie on Fri 15th Apr 2011 13:02 UTC in reply to "RE: Possibly outlawed?"
Lennie Member since:
2007-09-22

Not exactly, some ISP's actually market that they do filtering.

But they filter porn and other things which certain people of a certain relgious prefer not to see and I guess also their kids.

Also pretty much every ISP does do filtering from time to time, but for technical reasons. To prevent DOS-attacks, prevent spam from getting out their networks and so on.

Reply Score: 2

RE: Possibly outlawed?
by dylansmrjones on Fri 15th Apr 2011 15:33 UTC in reply to "Possibly outlawed?"
dylansmrjones Member since:
2005-10-02

Considering the Danish ISP's have fought in court for years against filtering I don't think they will apply filtering on their own. That's effectively prohibited anyway - in Denmark (though the politicians are trying to extend the filtering).

If this ends with a court ruling banning forced filtering it will be in the 11th hour for Denmark, considering the new political course from the "liberal"-conservative government.

Reply Score: 3

Thank you Belgium!
by tunkaflux on Fri 15th Apr 2011 06:59 UTC
tunkaflux
Member since:
2006-01-25

You can all thank Belgium for this btw! ;) We've finally done something those pesky Dutch can be jealous of! (I'm looking at you Thom...) ;)

Reply Score: 3

RE: Thank you Belgium!
by evert on Fri 15th Apr 2011 08:29 UTC in reply to "Thank you Belgium!"
evert Member since:
2005-07-06

At least Thom wrote a great article on this important subject ;-)

cheers from another "Hollander"

Reply Score: 3

RE: Thank you Belgium!
by Thom_Holwerda on Fri 15th Apr 2011 08:33 UTC in reply to "Thank you Belgium!"
Thom_Holwerda Member since:
2005-06-29

Now chop chop, get back to not forming a government! Us Dutch should annex Flanders anyway, if only for those cute girls with the soft 'g' ;) .

Reply Score: 1

RE[2]: Thank you Belgium!
by Neolander on Fri 15th Apr 2011 10:39 UTC in reply to "RE: Thank you Belgium!"
Neolander Member since:
2010-03-08

Now chop chop, get back to not forming a government! Us Dutch should annex Flanders anyway, if only for those cute girls with the soft 'g' ;) .

Belgium is the world's first anarchist state ;)

Pretty interesting experiment when you think of it.

Reply Score: 1

RE[3]: Thank you Belgium!
by tunkaflux on Fri 15th Apr 2011 10:42 UTC in reply to "RE[2]: Thank you Belgium!"
tunkaflux Member since:
2006-01-25

"Now chop chop, get back to not forming a government! Us Dutch should annex Flanders anyway, if only for those cute girls with the soft 'g' ;) .

Belgium is the world's first anarchist state ;)
"

Make that "world's first sort of working anarchist state" ;)

Reply Score: 1

Woooooohooooo
by dylansmrjones on Fri 15th Apr 2011 15:30 UTC
dylansmrjones
Member since:
2005-10-02

I know it is too early for celebration, but:

Wooooooooohoooooooooooooo!!!!!!!!!

Living in Denmark and all, you see ;)

Reply Score: 3

RE: Woooooohooooo
by MyNameIsNot4Letter on Sat 16th Apr 2011 20:29 UTC in reply to "Woooooohooooo"
MyNameIsNot4Letter Member since:
2011-01-09

I know exactly what you mean. Live in Denmark too. This is going straight on my facebook wall. Hopefully setting up a different DNS server will be a thing of the past.

/Uni

Edited 2011-04-16 20:30 UTC

Reply Score: 1

RE[2]: Woooooohooooo
by dylansmrjones on Sun 17th Apr 2011 09:10 UTC in reply to "RE: Woooooohooooo"
dylansmrjones Member since:
2005-10-02

I posted it immediately on my FB-wall. I couldn't stop myself. I'm looking forward to the day where I won't need an alternative DNS-server setup to access piratebay ;)

Reply Score: 2

Freedom reigns in ********
by fretinator on Fri 15th Apr 2011 16:53 UTC
fretinator
Member since:
2005-07-06

I'm just glad that the ******** here don't do any filtering. I am free to talk about ********** or ******** without fear of ************.

V is for V*******

Reply Score: 4