Linked by Thom Holwerda on Fri 29th Apr 2011 22:06 UTC, submitted by sjvn
SuSE, openSUSE Attachmate now owns Novell and therefore, by extension, also owns SUSE and openSUSE. With Oracle currently doing everything in its power to thoroughly destroy what's left of Sun's open source commitments, scepticism abound about the future of SUSE, and more specifically of openSUSE. Attachmate's CEO has answered some questions about the future of SUSE and openSUSE, and as far as words go, it's looking good.
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As far as words go....
by runjorel on Fri 29th Apr 2011 22:37 UTC
runjorel
Member since:
2009-02-09

I tend to get nervous though when companies split up business units like this, but my fear comes from what I remember with Palm when they separated their hardware and software divisions. This is a completely different case and in fact Suse/OpenSuse was on its own entity at one point before Novell stepped in. I fear when businesses separate acquisitions into subsidiaries like this, they are merely separating high risk business units away from the main company's financials so that it's easier to close shop and not affect the main business financials if it fails.

But like Thom said, compared to Oracle's way of doing things, I really appreciate how Attachmate is allowing Suse/OpenSuse to operate like business as usual.

Edited 2011-04-29 22:40 UTC

Reply Score: 5

RE: As far as words go....
by Elv13 on Sat 30th Apr 2011 00:03 UTC in reply to "As far as words go...."
Elv13 Member since:
2006-06-12

SUSE is the profitable part, Novell is the high risk business. Netware, even if it still considered the best Unix by some IT pools, is dead. eDirectory lost to MSAD, the network part is unseen in recent serveur room. Whats left? Novell tried to save itself by becomming a new RedHat, but failed to deliver in most case and the "Open" part of SUSE came too late (SuSE 10.2 -> OpenSUSE 10.2). The way they handled locals partners to is a failure too (welcome to our big family! We promise you contract if you help us push our product deeper in your city, now, eat our dusts). Just like with eDirectory, it seem that of their "open" project are missing some bits of code to make them work fine on other Linux (Mono with the codecs, Suse studio, built system and others).

Overall, I hope a SUSE separated from Novell with enough financial backing/trust from the parent company is a good thing to get rid of the old mentality, even if SuSE never had a clean record in the first place.

Reply Score: 3

RE[2]: As far as words go....
by BluenoseJake on Sat 30th Apr 2011 03:45 UTC in reply to "RE: As far as words go...."
BluenoseJake Member since:
2005-08-11

Netware is not Unix, not by a long shot.

Reply Score: 6

RE[2]: As far as words go....
by gfolkert on Sat 30th Apr 2011 14:16 UTC in reply to "RE: As far as words go...."
gfolkert Member since:
2008-12-15

Here is a quote I fully believe and completely backup:

Novell's Directory Services is a competitive product to Microsoft's Active Directory in much the same way that the Saturn V is a competitive product to those dinky little model rockets that kids light off down at the playfield. -- Thane Walkup

I'm an NCE from the 2.x through 5.x years... Bindery was very good... NetWare v4.0 and 4.01 were complete and utter shiitake. I went through upgrades and nobody really understood a "directory service" about 4.10 they got it right. 4.11 was superior and it just went on from there. NetWare was by far the best File and Print services system at the time and GroupWise v5.5 turned out to be a far better e-mail system than Exchange ever was (and still it IMO... Exchange sucks in comparison). I just weep at the MSAD success, while NDS/eDir just laid down and fell over.

Its really STILL is a much better Directory Service, just that nobody uses it for anything more than an LDAP server on steroids now.

Oh well. lets move on. MSAD is shit, it has so many limitations "Per Forest" and "Per Tree" its not even funny. Collisions can and do still happen all the time. The replication between servers is shit (compared to eDir's method) and MSAD's replication is crap compared to slapd and slurpd.

Ok, so enough of MSAD being a crap... YUM, I love its taste... as long as I can wash it down with significant amounts of Dark Rum.

Reply Score: 5

RE[3]: As far as words go....
by Sabon on Sat 30th Apr 2011 16:59 UTC in reply to "RE[2]: As far as words go...."
Sabon Member since:
2005-07-06

gfolkert - You are 100% correct.

I've had to use both heavily and MSs directory services are not anywhere near as good as Novells.

The problem with Novell is that they always assumed that the best technology would win and that everyone would play fair.

MS _can't_ play fair. When you don't have as good of a product you can't play nice and expect to win. Especially when your product isn't _anywhere_ near as good as the other companies (and I agree about it still not being anywhere near as good).

So what does MS do?

Lots of things. FUD of course but MS also plays to CEOs egos. I've met too many CEOs that believe that being able to hang around someone rich makes them feel a lot better. It's like having a trophy wife. Hey, if that guy can marry _that_ totally hot woman then he must be really great even though he isn't good looking.

That's how the place where I work moved from GroupWise to Outlook/Exchange and are moving all services from Novell to MS (it's literally on the timeline for 8 years - plus some things are moving to Linux - but not SUSE - from Novell).

Outlook/Exchange is horrible compared to GroupWise. It needs more servers and even doubling them is not enough to have Outlook clients "live". Instead most companies don't have Outlook in "live" mode like GroupWise runs with no problems. Instead they (and we) use cache mode. Pretty pathetic.

Don't get me started about pushing applications (totally different subject than email). With Novell when you tell apps to push you can have them push right now, that second, to as many computers as you want (OK, there are limits). With MS the app doesn't install right away. Instead it install anywhere from four to 24 hours later. And that is "normal". How pathetic.

I could go on and on and on and on and on about how MS is nowhere near as good as Novell. Lemmings will be lemmings though. It's like the merchant who convinces the king that only true royalty can see the material. Since the king doesn't want to appear to be of bad (non royal blood) he lies and says he can see the material and the man sells the king the material.

People talk about Steve Jobs "distortion field". What they don't understand is that Bill Gates has a bigger distortion field and they have no idea how he is serving them **** for years and they are eating it up like crazy thinking they are eating very good food.

Reply Score: 3

RE[4]: As far as words go....
by pantheraleo on Sun 1st May 2011 01:15 UTC in reply to "RE[3]: As far as words go...."
pantheraleo Member since:
2007-03-07

What they don't understand is that Bill Gates has a bigger distortion field and they have no idea how he is serving them **** for years and they are eating it up like crazy thinking they are eating very good food.


In some cases Sabon, we are getting very good food. As a long time J2EE developer (more than 10 years) who has been working with .NET for the past year, I really have to say that Microsoft produces a far better product when it comes to the whole Web application stack that they provide (ASP.NET, IIS, Visual Studio.NET, SQL Server). The fact that it is all designed to work seamlessly together produces a platform that is more robust and less prone to weird problems than any Java stack I have worked with. I'm convinced most of the problems with Java come from cobbling together technologies from different vendors to achieve the same kind of functionality that Microsoft gives you in one seamless stack that is all designed to work together.

And as far as development environments go, Visual Studio.NET is a better product than any of the Java development environments available.

Obviously, I'm not trying to suggest Microsoft is perfect. But when it comes to development of enterprise level applications, well, I can only say I wish I had tried the MS stack sooner. I spend a lot less time pulling my hair out than I do with J2EE / Java EE.

Edited 2011-05-01 01:29 UTC

Reply Score: 3

RE[5]: As far as words go....
by oiaohm on Sun 1st May 2011 07:36 UTC in reply to "RE[4]: As far as words go...."
oiaohm Member since:
2009-05-30

"What they don't understand is that Bill Gates has a bigger distortion field and they have no idea how he is serving them **** for years and they are eating it up like crazy thinking they are eating very good food.


In some cases Sabon, we are getting very good food. As a long time J2EE developer (more than 10 years) who has been working with .NET for the past year, I really have to say that Microsoft produces a far better product when it comes to the whole Web application stack that they provide (ASP.NET, IIS, Visual Studio.NET, SQL Server). The fact that it is all designed to work seamlessly together produces a platform that is more robust and less prone to weird problems than any Java stack I have worked with. I'm convinced most of the problems with Java come from cobbling together technologies from different vendors to achieve the same kind of functionality that Microsoft gives you in one seamless stack that is all designed to work together.
"

There is the problem. Yes ASP.Net works when on a pure MS stack. Mono legally we don't know since ASP.Net is not covered by the community promise.

Really lot of cases I find ASP.net worse than PHP. At least PHP I have cheaper server rental than java or .net.

When it comes to web techs. PHP is Number 1. Java is Number 2. And .net is tail of the hunt. Both Java and PHP has lot of premade applications to get you going with.

Reply Score: 4

RE[6]: As far as words go....
by Slambert666 on Sun 1st May 2011 10:52 UTC in reply to "RE[5]: As far as words go...."
Slambert666 Member since:
2008-10-30

When it comes to web techs. PHP is Number 1. Java is Number 2. And .net is tail of the hunt. Both Java and PHP has lot of premade applications to get you going with.


Do you have a link that supports that statement or are you just making those numbers up?

Reply Score: 2

RE[7]: As far as words go....
by Soulbender on Sun 1st May 2011 11:20 UTC in reply to "RE[6]: As far as words go...."
Soulbender Member since:
2005-08-18

I actually saw figures supporting this just the other week while looking at different web app frameworks. Can't remember where though but you don't have to be a genius to know that PHP is the most widely deployed one and that .Net isn't even on the map when it comes to public, high-volume sites. It's a good guess that Ruby On Rails is more popular than .net too.
Could be different for Intranet stuff but Java is pretty entrenched there so it might be a toss-up.

The only .net web app of any stature that I can recall right away is Dekiwiki.

Edited 2011-05-01 11:22 UTC

Reply Score: 4

RE[6]: As far as words go....
by pantheraleo on Sun 1st May 2011 15:15 UTC in reply to "RE[5]: As far as words go...."
pantheraleo Member since:
2007-03-07

There is the problem. Yes ASP.Net works when on a pure MS stack.


You don't have to run a pure MS stack to use ASP.NET of course. You can use it with Oracle, MySQL, DB2, or any other database for example. But again, there is something to be said for having a single point of contact when something goes wrong as it eliminates any ambiguity as to who's responsibility it is to support the issue.

Really lot of cases I find ASP.net worse than PHP. At least PHP I have cheaper server rental than java or .net.


And that's fine, if your biggest concern is cheap hosting space. But if your biggest concern is that you lose you hundreds of thousands of dollars for every minute of downtime you have, then having a well supported stack where you can get a support team on the phone 24/7 that knows the entire stack inside and out, because they are the guys that wrote the whole thing becomes a lot more important.

When it comes to web techs. PHP is Number 1. Java is Number 2. And .net is tail of the hunt. Both Java and PHP has lot of premade applications to get you going with.


Well, PHP might be the most popular as far as sheer number of PHP Web applications deployed. But again, keep in mind that many PHP Web sites are very small, and PHP might be used for nothing more than providing an email contact form or something.

There are a lot of pre-written applications in PHP, yes. But that only matters to me if I am doing something like trying to set up a blog, or wiki, or forum site. PHP has done a pretty good job at producing "generic" horizontal reusable applications like that.

Both Java and .NET on the other hand, tend to be used a lot more for developing vertical market specialized applications that by their very nature, are not reusable because of their specialization. And are not "generic" like a blog, or wiki.

Edited 2011-05-01 15:30 UTC

Reply Score: 2

RE[6]: As far as words go....
by Slambert666 on Mon 2nd May 2011 03:22 UTC in reply to "RE[5]: As far as words go...."
Slambert666 Member since:
2008-10-30

When it comes to web techs. PHP is Number 1. Java is Number 2. And .net is tail of the hunt. Both Java and PHP has lot of premade applications to get you going with.


I'm Replying here because of the stupid "hide nested comments" here on this site.

I knew you were just making stuff up, because Java is almost not being used any more and nobody is using ruby etc.

The data from the top 1M websites are as follows:
PHP: 76.2%
ASP.NET: 22.7%
Java: 3.2%
ColdFusion: 1.3%
Perl: 1.1%
Ruby: 0.6%
Python 0.2%

Source:
http://w3techs.com/technologies/overview/programming_language/all

Reply Score: 1

RE[7]: As far as words go....
by pantheraleo on Mon 2nd May 2011 06:03 UTC in reply to "RE[6]: As far as words go...."
pantheraleo Member since:
2007-03-07

I knew you were just making stuff up, because Java is almost not being used any more and nobody is using ruby etc.


The number they have for Java is total BS, and any amount of research would prove it is obviously wrong (as would any understanding of how Java powered Web sites are set up). The reason it is total BS is because there is no way for you to tell that a Web Site is using Java. Unlike PHP, which typically can be discovered because Apache will report that it is running mod_php if you query it for what modules it has installed (a security hole btw, that server admins should disable, but most of them don't) most Java sites just report that they are running Apache HTTPD server because Apache proxies requests for dynamic content to a Java application server behind the scenes. So any attempt to tell how many Web Sites are using Java is completely flawed.

Here are some statistics that are not flawed however:

* Java is the #1 language on Sourceforge.
* IBM, Red Hat, Oracle, VMWare, and HP are all strongly behind Java.
* 100% of Fortune 1000 companies use Java.

And here are some current numbers from dice.com as far as the demand for various languages. From most demand to least demand:

Java: 15911 job listings
.NET: 9084 job listings
PHP: 2996 job listings
Python: 2447 job listings
Ruby: 1478 job listings
Coldfusion: 335 job listings.

Java is clearly the dominant platform. The only platform that is even on the radar as a potential threat is .NET.

Also, according to Simply Hired, demand for Java developers increased 10% between September of 2009, and January of 2011. A 10% increase in job demand (even though we went through the worst recession since the 1930s) would be a good trick to pull off for a language "that is hardly ever used anymore" as you put it. Demand for PHP jobs also increased 10%, which means that PHP made no gains on Java at all in that period.

.NET was stagnant and saw no net increase in job demand.

So yeah, I'm afraid I have to call that statistic you posted exactly what it is. BS. And if you read the disclaimer at the site you got it from, and if you knew how most Java application servers are invisible because they run behind an Apache instance acting as a proxy, you'd know why those statistics are BS.

Edited 2011-05-02 06:19 UTC

Reply Score: 1

RE[5]: As far as words go....
by pantheraleo on Sun 1st May 2011 21:19 UTC in reply to "RE[4]: As far as words go...."
pantheraleo Member since:
2007-03-07

And as far as development environments go, Visual Studio.NET is a better product than any of the Java development environments available.


I take that back. There is one Java IDE that is as good as Visual Studio.NET. IntelliJ IDEA. It's the only one that can compete with Visual Studio.NET.

Eclipse has been stagnant for years now and has been showing virtually no innovation. And Eclipse WTP is terrible when it comes to Javascript development.

NetBeans had a lot of promise, but it seems Oracle is intent on discontinuing development and support for half of it's features. So I don't know what the future holds for NetBeans anymore.

IntelliJ Idea is awesome though, and can effectively compete with Visual Studio.NET quite well.

Reply Score: 1

RE[3]: As far as words go....
by BluenoseJake on Sun 1st May 2011 01:07 UTC in reply to "RE[2]: As far as words go...."
BluenoseJake Member since:
2005-08-11

Have you ever used AD? We are currently using Netware 6.5 and AD and I could tear my own eyes out every time I have to touch the Netware box. Console One is a joke It's slow, creaky, and barely usable. Takes minutes to load on my quadcore system. AD users and computers loads almost instantly, and has never crashed on me, can't say the same of Console One.

The Novell Client for Windows is one of the buggiest pieces of shit I have ever seen.

Zenworks is a monster that is clunky and virtually different every version. It tries to do too many things, and ends up doing none well.

SIPS sucks as a name service, it's nonstandard, and seems to cause problems every other day.

Compared to eDirectory, AD is stable fast, and the administrative tools are built right into the OS, It uses DNS as a name service, so it is easily administered. GPOs are really nice, useful way to push policies, so useful, that Netware even supports them, instead of doing it itself.

The world has moved on to better things, maybe you should learn the new technologies, instead of lamenting a crappy product from a company that forgot how to compete.

Reply Score: 2

jabbotts Member since:
2007-09-06

I'd sure like to know why more of my AD policy doesn't actually take affect on the client nodes. The central AD policy provided a security template rule to not run removable media on insert yet there I was having to add a local GPO on each machine before they stopped auto-running removable media. I'm also still writing long login scripts to cover things that should simply be policy rules.. and heaven forbid I have WinXP and Win7 trying to run the same login script without presenting a nice big error to my user. I'm still having to manage Exchange separately from AD (changes in Exchange flowing into AD instead of changes in AD properly affecting Exchange).

I can't compare with Novell as the last time I worked with that was Netware prior to eDirectory becoming a separate product. I'd sure like to see MS-LDAP be a little more effective at what it claims to do though.

Reply Score: 2

RE[4]: As far as words go....
by TemporalBeing on Mon 2nd May 2011 17:38 UTC in reply to "RE[3]: As far as words go...."
TemporalBeing Member since:
2007-08-22

The Novell Client for Windows is one of the buggiest pieces of shit I have ever seen.


Yes, Microsoft has always made sure of that though various changes in the underlying GSSAPI interfaces, etc. Novell could certainly win an Anti-trust suite against them on the matter if they ever tried. Sadly, they never have tried and Attachmate probably won't try either.

Reply Score: 2

RE[5]: As far as words go....
by BluenoseJake on Mon 2nd May 2011 20:36 UTC in reply to "RE[4]: As far as words go...."
BluenoseJake Member since:
2005-08-11

"The Novell Client for Windows is one of the buggiest pieces of shit I have ever seen.


Yes, Microsoft has always made sure of that though various changes in the underlying GSSAPI interfaces, etc. Novell could certainly win an Anti-trust suite against them on the matter if they ever tried. Sadly, they never have tried and Attachmate probably won't try either.
"


I'm sure that in the 10 years XP has been supported, or the 5 years that Vista has been supported, or the 2 that Windows 7 has been supported, Novell might have been able, at some point to put out a workable client. They haven't been able to.

This argument is just excuses, and nothing more. The api hasn't changed between SPs, just major releases. Nice troll though.

Reply Score: 2

RE[6]: As far as words go....
by TemporalBeing on Mon 2nd May 2011 21:29 UTC in reply to "RE[5]: As far as words go...."
TemporalBeing Member since:
2007-08-22

"[q]The Novell Client for Windows is one of the buggiest pieces of shit I have ever seen.


Yes, Microsoft has always made sure of that though various changes in the underlying GSSAPI interfaces, etc. Novell could certainly win an Anti-trust suite against them on the matter if they ever tried. Sadly, they never have tried and Attachmate probably won't try either.
"


I'm sure that in the 10 years XP has been supported, or the 5 years that Vista has been supported, or the 2 that Windows 7 has been supported, Novell might have been able, at some point to put out a workable client. They haven't been able to.

This argument is just excuses, and nothing more. The api hasn't changed between SPs, just major releases. Nice troll though. [/q]

Actually, MS did change it between XP SP2 and SP3. I believe they may have adjusted it between SP1 and SP2 as well. I was researching at the time SP3 came out (trying to hook into GSSAPI for authentication), and the changes were quite substantial.

Can't say anything per Vista/Win7 - though they had a dramatically different GSSAPI than XP did, from what I understand while Vista was in beta.

MS has been known for a long time - going all the way back to NT4 - for sabotaging the various systems that try to use the GSSAPI to do things like eDirectory/GroupWise so that their Domain system (now ADS) looks to be superior. Many just gave up and just piggy-backed on DC/ADS authentication (essentially capitulating to MS) - Novell with eDirectory was about the last ones to continue it to the depth they did.

Reply Score: 2

RE[7]: As far as words go....
by BluenoseJake on Mon 2nd May 2011 21:57 UTC in reply to "RE[6]: As far as words go...."
BluenoseJake Member since:
2005-08-11

Ok, so SP2 came out when? 2004.
SP3 came out in 2008, that meant Novell had 4 years to build a stable Client for Windows, and they couldn't do it. They had 3 years before that. They've had 3 years since and the Novell Client for XP still sucks.

Argue all you want, but they haven't changed it enough that it explains Novell's incompetence. once in 11 years (XP) is not a valid excuse.

Vista came out in 2006, and they haven't got it. Windows 7 came out 2 years ago, still haven't got it stable.

so that's 7 years for Xp to XP SP2, 3 years for SP3, 5 years for Vista and 2 for Win7.

Admit it, Novell sucks.

Reply Score: 2

RE[2]: As far as words go....
by ecruz on Sat 30th Apr 2011 18:42 UTC in reply to "RE: As far as words go...."
ecruz Member since:
2007-06-16

I am just wondering where you get your information from. Show me anywhere that mentions that Novell Suse Linux business is profitable?
You can go back as far as 2009 through today and Suse Linux has not made a profit for Novell. If you find something to the contrary, post it here as an update.

Reply Score: 1

RE[3]: As far as words go....
by Elv13 on Sat 30th Apr 2011 19:30 UTC in reply to "RE[2]: As far as words go...."
Elv13 Member since:
2006-06-12

Ok, the numbers are not that nice, bu the whole division still do better than most of Novell offering
http://www.novell.com/company/ir/qresults/

Novell do only 15% of its revenue from licences and 85% on services and subscriptions. The license money from the Linux division is non disclosed, probably bellow 1%, but the SUSE service account for 18% of the revenue, 54% if you take into account the whole ecosystem built on top of it (including NetWare virtualization solutions). But yea, look like the last time they were very profitable is when microsoft bought licences pack for HyperV, but it can be said for Novell too, not just the SUSE division.

Reply Score: 3

It's all about management
by Moredhas on Sat 30th Apr 2011 07:07 UTC
Moredhas
Member since:
2008-04-10

In the right hands, any small project can flourish. In the wrong hands, even Microsoft could disappear virtually overnight. Played correctly, SuSE could replace Ubuntu as the entry level distro (when I started using Linux, it was in fact recommended to me over Ubuntu, which at the time was 5.04, Hoary Hedgehog or Warty Warthog, I forget which). Played correctly, it can serve the higher level users at the same time.

With Canonical too busy telling users what they want, rather than asking, Attachmate could find themselves with a lot of new users. Exactly what value this would be to them, how they want to monetize, I don't know, but there's definitely potential for becoming the dominant entry-level distro; and increasingly, people aren't leaving the entry-level behind. They get comfortable there. I'd personally like them to utilise some of the good work done on Plasma and release a good tablet build of SuSE alongside their desktop offerings. Even if only a handful of people use it now, it's a growing market, and will be increasingly important in the coming years. A strong focus on feature parity between x86 and ARM will be important, too, I think. With Windows 8 being able to run on ARM processors, we'll probably see a lot of ARM netbooks, tablets, and even light desktops out in the world, and from my brief (by no means thorough) Googling, ARM can be a pain in the ass for Linux users.

Reply Score: 5

RE: It's all about management
by Neolander on Sat 30th Apr 2011 08:29 UTC in reply to "It's all about management"
Neolander Member since:
2010-03-08

from my brief (by no means thorough) Googling, ARM can be a pain in the ass for Linux users.

I'm interested to know what problems exactly linux on ARM encounters. I suspect that it has to do with the much more proprietary hardware ecosystem, but am a lot more interested in what actually happens than what I think happens ;)

Edited 2011-04-30 08:30 UTC

Reply Score: 2

RE[2]: It's all about management
by Radio on Sat 30th Apr 2011 10:13 UTC in reply to "RE: It's all about management"
Radio Member since:
2009-06-20

Lack of optimisation, because each ARM vendor makes his variant of the base design they licence from ARM. Texas Instruments opens well its OMAP variant, but nVidia is far slower and less open.

Add on that the fact there is a far larger variety of hardware on the ARM plaform (wifi and graphical chipsets, touchscreen, accelerometer, camera, and bootloader - chen it is not locked), and the net result is so much fragmentation and target hardware so small that we are largely dependent on the vendor to get enough code and data to adapt a functional linux.

Reply Score: 3

RE[3]: It's all about management
by Vanger on Sat 30th Apr 2011 13:59 UTC in reply to "RE[2]: It's all about management"
Vanger Member since:
2007-11-28

As always, we are largely dependent on the community to code enough code and get enough data to adapt the Linux kernel.

Toshiba AC100 hacking efforts are an early bird of what will come, I presume.

Reply Score: 1

RE: It's all about management
by pantheraleo on Sun 1st May 2011 00:58 UTC in reply to "It's all about management"
pantheraleo Member since:
2007-03-07

With Canonical too busy telling users what they want, rather than asking, Attachmate could find themselves with a lot of new users.


I don't see Canonical as being competition to Attachmate. Novell basically had four main competitors: Oracle, Microsoft, IBM, and Red Hat. Of these five vendors, Novell was probably the weakest because they are the furthest from being able to provide a full stack solution. By that, I mean they are the furthest from being be able to provide a single vendor point of contact for support.

In the open source world, we often like to tout freedom of choice as one of the benefits. However, if you are running a mission critical application that you need vendor support for, building different parts of your stack on software provided by different vendors can get dicey when it comes to support. If something breaks in your data access layer for example, who's problem is it? The database vendor's? The application server vendor's? The ORM framework vendor's? If your entire stack is from one vendor, there can be no ambiguity about who's problem it is when something goes wrong, and who is responsible for supporting it.

Of the five vendors I mentioned above, currently, only Microsoft, Oracle, and IBM are capable of providing a full stack:

Microsoft has .NET, MS SQL Server, IIS, and Windows Server 2008. Oracle, thanks to the Sun purchase, has two Java EE application servers, (Glassfish and WebLogic), Oracle and MySQL databases, and Solaris. IBM has AIX, a Java EE application server (WebSphere), and the DB2 database.

RedHat comes close, in that they provide a supported OS and a Java EE application server (JBoss). But they need to buy up a database vendor. Red Hat should have bought MySQL, but in the past they have been hesitant to provide their own database because they wanted to appear database vendor neutral. But now that Oracle owns Sun, that's not going to fly anymore. Oracle is obviously going to push the Solaris / Oracle combo, and discourage the Linux / Oracle combo.

And then we have SUSE, which is sort of left without any kind of stack at all.

Alas, it is too bad that VMWare didn't buy Novell. That would have raised some eyebrows and probably caused a little bit of nervousness at Oracle, Microsoft, IBM, and Red Hat. A VMWare purchase of Novell would have been very interesting indeed.

Edited 2011-05-01 01:05 UTC

Reply Score: 5

RE: It's all about management
by twitterfire on Mon 2nd May 2011 15:09 UTC in reply to "It's all about management"
twitterfire Member since:
2008-09-11

How can you make money by from making desktop Linux distributions, good Sir?

Red Hat makes money by selling support for their server distro, and if Canonical will ever make a buck, that will be because they followed Red Hat steps and released a server version of their distro.

Reply Score: 2

Using openSUSE
by acobar on Sat 30th Apr 2011 14:06 UTC
acobar
Member since:
2005-11-15

Have been using openSUSE since 11.3 release. I like the default install and its standard configuration and selection of packages. For the needed extra non-free or patent potentially encumbered stuff there are packman repositories.

KDE 4.x (now 4.6.x) is finally running smoothly. Actually, it is running so well that I see less and less "reasons" to run xfce now. Just some tweaks and voila, a clean and pleasant desktop. My favorites applications on linux are mostly kde4/qt4 now. Here is my list:

- Dolphin (default file manager) is the best of the bread to day-to-day use now (though I fire up mc from my favorite terminal emulator when a job needs it);

- amarok is nice (after tweeks);

- k3b is the best burner of FOSS;

- smplayer is damn good or video;

- digiKam for photo management;

- qtoctave and freemat (the last from svn). Damn good for most of engineering things I do;

- qtiplot is also very useful for plotting stuff;

- luckyBackup (hard lessons we never forget);

- kate, kdevelop, Qt Creator and kdiff3 for most of the programming things. And KDbg is back!

- scribus and texmaker/lyx (cant make my mind between them) for most of more-than-just-text stuff;

- UDAV for mathgl stuff;

- goldendict is the best free dictionary (to me, of course);

- yast2 for system management. Good, not spectacular.

My main missings are:

- CAD (damn, Autocad is just too good! Have been playing with Bricscad lately to see if I may stop dual-booting);

- image editing (have high hopes for krita from calligra fork, using gimp, which is very nice and full of plugins by now);

- vector stuff (also high hopes for karbon. I like inkscape, anyway).

And there are some stuff that I pretty much doubt I will move from, as it is nice to have them on both MS-OS and linux:

- LibreOffice;

- Mozilla Firefox;

- Mozilla Thunderbird.

What I dislike is the akonadi/nepomuk (the last I always disable, the first can not go away for some reason) things. I dont have use and would like to get rid of them or, at least, leave them on a very frozen state on a deep dark cave somewhere on the confines of the universe.

The forums and bug reports are also good and helpful.

I also have been playing with openSUSE:Education-Li-f-e lately and confess I am impressed so far.

I really hope that Attachmate will do the right things, from a FOSS/community perspective, and succeed on linux/desktop field.

Edited 2011-04-30 14:08 UTC

Reply Score: 4

RE: Using openSUSE - Dolphin and Nepomuk
by jabbotts on Sun 1st May 2011 16:08 UTC in reply to "Using openSUSE"
jabbotts Member since:
2007-09-06

I'd say the most frequent crashout on my system is Dolphin. It's a very nice file manager but it frequently bombs out when I've lots of directories open. The novelty of opening a second directory and selecting some files only to see all my Dolphin instances disappear has long since worn off. If it's a flaky plugin taking the whole thing down then fair enough; fix the plugin and fix Dolphin so a crashing plugin doesn't kill the entire thing.

Nepomuk. this is becoming detestable. When ram maxes out, swap use grows and my machine crawls too a halt, there is one consistency. Not the vm'd server with similar uptime to the host (groupware and various monitoring apps; it's not sitting still). Not the pentarget VMs or related heavy load tasks on the host os. The 72 hours of Ophcrack or John burning away on multiple cores.. anything productive I'm doing?.. nah.. it's Nepomukservices. Even Firefox on Windows causes less grief leaking memory everywhere and crashing out.

This is Debian 6; stability and security are core project goals. But, I can accept that other distributions may be shipping a more stable Dolphin build. Dolpin may be falling below Nepomuk seems to be a steaming pile everywhere it lands out of the cow though. I'd be happy to see both significantly improved or at least enough so that I'm not shipping crash reports so regularly.

(and with that, I'm off to disable Nepomuk. Even if other apps are using it's index library.. I'll take the performance drop over the Nepomuk crap happily. It's had it's chance until I see an updated package.)

Reply Score: 2

superstoned Member since:
2005-07-07

the good news for you is that this will indeed be solved in the upcoming version of Dolphin. The problem is that the file information plugins can crash Dolphin. While many bugs in those have been fixed, they still aren't perfect and Dolphin will use them in a separate process to prevent this issue in the future.

Reply Score: 2

jabbotts Member since:
2007-09-06

Sweet! I'll be watching for a package update in Debian's repositories; hopefully it's not a version update that will get stuck in Deb Testing rather than being included into Deb Stable.

Now, if someone would just fix the Samba "resource unavailable" nonsence. I have one machine that has no issue reading Samba shares off my NAS and another machine build from the exact same package list and config script which consistently returns the "unavailable" error. Dolphin displays it as "password incorrect" when it's not and smb4k just repeatedly asks for the uname/passwd regardless of what config settings I change. Since they are both relying on mount.cifs, I blame the "unavailable" error.

Samba itself is a necessary evil in it's own right which I'd drop like a hot potato if Windows wasn't so NIH objectionable to any other network sharing standard. (why on earth is there still no native SSH in Windows and what I would do for a native sshfs for windows cause any of the implementations tried so far suck).

But that news about Dolphin is happiness. Thank you for that.

Reply Score: 2

RE: Using openSUSE
by phoenix on Mon 2nd May 2011 18:14 UTC in reply to "Using openSUSE"
phoenix Member since:
2005-07-11

CAD (damn, Autocad is just too good! Have been playing with Bricscad lately to see if I may stop dual-booting);


Yeah, CAD apps are a weak-link in the Linux chain. We've tried various ones (QCad, Cycas, Rhino, and another one I can't recall the name of) but haven't found one that works well for those trained on AutoCAD. Until we found ProgeCAD.

It runs via Wine, sure, but it runs exceedingly quick and stable on our Debian 5.0 boxes. It's AutoCAD compatible, and the interface is very similar to AutoCAD. Our AutoCAD-trained teachers love it.

Reply Score: 2

Sabon
Member since:
2005-07-06

I remember when Attachmate had only a few employees.

Back in the early 80s the company I worked for used Attachmate to connect to mainframes. I think there was less than 10 people that worked for them at the time.

I wish them good luck (in a non sarcastic way) with Novell and SUSE. I hope that they can do a lot more with Novell's technology and products that the post Ray Noorde CEOs have done with it.

Ray was a true visionary. Like my other post here, he thought that the best technology would win just because it was best. And it did for awhile. MSs non-technology methods (FUD - suck up to CEOs - the emperor has no clothes - technics worked and the best products lost out. Hopefully Attachmate can find a way to resurrect Novell, assuming that they bought Novell for more than just patents.

Reply Score: 3

SuSe...
by hackus on Sun 1st May 2011 16:42 UTC
hackus
Member since:
2006-06-28

I give SuSe about 2-3 years, then it is probably shut down or castrated.

The Board of Attachmate is colluded. In about 6 months, expect the first release of the new SuSe distro under Attachemate leadership to be crap.

They will announce "changes" which include old world thinking such as the closing of the web site to only customers and a large precipitous drop in programmer contributions.
(They will basically lay everyone off to increase revenue.)

Next up for the scrap heap: RedHat.

-Hack

Reply Score: 0

RE: SuSe...
by pantheraleo on Sun 1st May 2011 16:52 UTC in reply to "SuSe..."
pantheraleo Member since:
2007-03-07

Next up for the scrap heap: RedHat.


You might be right about SuSE. But I don't see Red Hat going to the scrap heap anytime soon. They have too many customers, and too many business partners. Red Hat is pretty much the dominant unix OS in the the enterprise today.

I do see Red Hat as an attractive acquisition target though. Possibly either IBM or VMWare might be interested in buying them.

Edited 2011-05-01 16:57 UTC

Reply Score: 2

Simple rule
by tralafit on Sun 1st May 2011 18:06 UTC
tralafit
Member since:
2011-03-10

The rule is simple, kick all the Americans out and leave it to the Germans to recoup the true spirit of SuSe. Novell burned SuSe's credibility and added layers of wasteful marketing and management.

Reply Score: 4

RE: Simple rule
by ecruz on Sun 1st May 2011 23:19 UTC in reply to "Simple rule"
ecruz Member since:
2007-06-16

As much as I hate saying it...I agree with you.

Reply Score: 1

RE: Simple rule
by IanSVT on Tue 3rd May 2011 22:22 UTC in reply to "Simple rule"
IanSVT Member since:
2005-07-06

If you know anything about Novell, you'd realize how funny the wasteful marketing remark is. Despite having a marketing division, when was the last time anyone saw any Novell marketing? I remember some fish ad during the superbowl ten years ago, but since then....?

Reply Score: 2

Stop the paranoid bullsh** about Oracle
by walec51 on Tue 3rd May 2011 23:36 UTC
walec51
Member since:
2009-09-02

> With Oracle currently doing everything in its
> power to thoroughly destroy what's left of
> Sun's open source commitments

I hate this type of bullsh** that comes from people that have no idea whats going on in the most important post-Sun open source communities. OO.org was nether one of the most important ones from Sun perspective !

Glassfish, OpenJDK, Netbeans, MySQL, .etc. ... those are the most important projects from Sun. And Oracle is putting more resource in to then than Sun did !

Oracle just stopped investing in projects that don't interest then. And why shouldn't they ? Open Source is not about sponsoring geek's ...

Reply Score: 1

pantheraleo Member since:
2007-03-07

Glassfish, OpenJDK, Netbeans, MySQL, .etc. ... those are the most important projects from Sun. And Oracle is putting more resource in to then than Sun did !

Oracle just stopped investing in projects that don't interest then. And why shouldn't they ? Open Source is not about sponsoring geek's ...


Well, I think there is some concern in the community about some of the projects you mention. For example, Glassfish competes with their commercial app server WebLogic. So one has to wonder how much effort they are really going to want to put into Glassfish.

The same is true with MySQL. How much effort are they going to really want to put into MySQL given that it competes with their flagship product, and they can't make nearly as much money off MySQL as they can off of Oracle DB?

As far as NetBeans, they seem content on making it a Java only IDE (unless the community takes over the Ruby on Rails and Python modules). Oracle doesn't want to deal with this modules anymore and has discontinued development of them

Reply Score: 1