Linked by Thom Holwerda on Tue 3rd May 2011 13:33 UTC
Apple Apple has updated its line of iMac desktops, with new processors and bumped graphical specifications. They also includes an HD FaceTime camera, which is certainly useful. The most interesting feature is, of course, that they include Thunderbolt ports - one on the 21.5" model, and two on the 27" model.
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Still no matte screen
by Thomas2005 on Tue 3rd May 2011 14:37 UTC
Thomas2005
Member since:
2005-11-07

Not even as an option. Also, why just one Thunderbolt port on the 21" model instead of two?

Edited 2011-05-03 14:43 UTC

Reply Score: 2

RE: Still no matte screen
by Thom_Holwerda on Tue 3rd May 2011 14:55 UTC in reply to "Still no matte screen"
Thom_Holwerda Member since:
2005-06-29

Not even as an option. Also, why just one Thunderbolt port on the 21" model instead of two?


To make sure you buy the 27" model if you need to use several devices and daisy-chaining is out of the question (because if you need disconnect the first device in the chain, the remaining devices become disconnected too).

Reply Score: 1

RE: Still no matte screen
by judgen on Tue 3rd May 2011 15:23 UTC in reply to "Still no matte screen"
judgen Member since:
2006-07-12

Yeah i agree, an matte screen option would be awesome.

Reply Score: 2

RE[2]: Still no matte screen
by ggeldenhuys on Wed 4th May 2011 08:19 UTC in reply to "RE: Still no matte screen"
ggeldenhuys Member since:
2006-11-13

It is funny how everything goes full-circle. First all laptops came out with matte screens (and not viewable from all angles), then matte screens viewable from all angles, then optional sticky stuff making them not viewable from all angles (for privacy reasons), then glossy screens became popular. Now everybody wants to go back to matte screens again. :-)

Reply Score: 3

RE: Still no matte screen
by dvhh on Tue 3rd May 2011 16:56 UTC in reply to "Still no matte screen"
dvhh Member since:
2006-03-20

is there any Apple device with a matte screen ?

Reply Score: 2

RE[2]: Still no matte screen
by polaris20 on Tue 3rd May 2011 18:38 UTC in reply to "RE: Still no matte screen"
polaris20 Member since:
2005-07-06

Optional on MBP15's.

Reply Score: 3

RE: Still no matte screen
by kaiwai on Wed 4th May 2011 00:51 UTC in reply to "Still no matte screen"
kaiwai Member since:
2005-07-06

Not even as an option. Also, why just one Thunderbolt port on the 21" model instead of two?


I wouldn't worry given that Thunderbolt hooks straight into the PCIe which at least in theory if Apple wanted to support USB3 all they would have to do is provide a break out box and run the protocol over Thunderbolt (given that Thunderbolt is protocol agnostic). So it would be plausible some time in the future to have a single Thunderbolt connector and then have a break out box to allow many USB3 devices to be hooked up to it.

Reply Score: 2

and this is news on here why?
by d-signet on Tue 3rd May 2011 15:26 UTC
d-signet
Member since:
2011-05-03

this isn't engadget guys - we don't need posts about every minor hardware update apple make.

Reply Score: 3

RE: and this is news on here why?
by kaiwai on Wed 4th May 2011 00:58 UTC in reply to "and this is news on here why?"
kaiwai Member since:
2005-07-06

this isn't engadget guys - we don't need posts about every minor hardware update apple make.


And how is it a minor update consider it includes Thunderbolt as well as a major upgrade in terms of GPU? You might as well say that about any news piece on any news website such as the Windows 7 Service Pack 1 or Internet Explorer 9 being released - because after all they're only 'updates' and not 'major news'.

Btw, it is on page 2 for a reason so why are you whining?

Reply Score: 4

radeon M?
by nabil2199 on Tue 3rd May 2011 15:36 UTC
nabil2199
Member since:
2010-03-31

I know that all in ones have heating constraints but using a mobile GPU on an expensive desktop computer seems very backwards to me

Reply Score: 2

RE: radeon M?
by Neolander on Tue 3rd May 2011 17:22 UTC in reply to "radeon M?"
Neolander Member since:
2010-03-08

I think it's more about efficient use of space. Anything but IGPs use large and bulky PCI-e cards which definitely couldn't fit in an all-in-one, especially one made by Apple.

Reply Score: 2

RE: radeon M?
by tupp on Tue 3rd May 2011 18:57 UTC in reply to "radeon M?"
tupp Member since:
2006-11-12

I know that all in ones have heating constraints...

Not really. The all-in-one heat problem exists almost entirely in the products of a single manufacturer who is afraid of vent holes and fans.

Guess which manufacturer.

Reply Score: 1

RE[2]: radeon M?
by viton on Tue 3rd May 2011 20:42 UTC in reply to "RE: radeon M?"
viton Member since:
2005-08-09

who is afraid of vent holes and fans

You presented it as if dust-collecting holes and annoyingly noisy fans is a good thing.
I prefer devices what don't need active cooling and work without stupid vent holes.

Edited 2011-05-03 20:49 UTC

Reply Score: 4

RE[3]: radeon M?
by tupp on Tue 3rd May 2011 22:12 UTC in reply to "RE[2]: radeon M?"
tupp Member since:
2006-11-12

You presented it as if dust-collecting holes and annoyingly noisy fans is a good thing.

Vents and/or fans are a necessity for proper, safe function and for competitive performance (unless one goes with liquid cooling or some other, more expensive cooling option). They are certainly "a good thing."

If Imacs had vents and/or fans, they wouldn't have heat problems, and they wouldn't need to use slow/crippled mobile processors. I would sooner blow the dust out of my computer every six months rather than have it catch fire (or have to settle for mediocre performance).

By the way, is it wise to put a frail, "fru-fru" computer into a harsh, dusty environment?


I prefer devices what don't need active cooling and work without stupid vent holes.

Well, then I guess you won't be getting a Macpro: http://www.macmall.com/n/Image-Gallery/macProductPages-macProductPa...

It looks like the Macpro may have one or two "stupid," "dust-collecting" holes with an "active" and "annoyingly noisy" fan.

I guess they couldn't get around the need for holes/fans on a full computer.

Reply Score: 2

RE[4]: radeon M?
by fasted on Tue 3rd May 2011 23:50 UTC in reply to "RE[3]: radeon M?"
fasted Member since:
2006-11-09

Sigh. This is a very fast computer, mobile or no. If you could point the way to one that's as fast, as thin, as good looking and functioning as this one, I'm all ears. Of course you can't, because I've seen the one's from HP, Sony, etc., and they look big, bulky and cheap. Some even cost more, here in Canada, and come with Windows 7. By the way, I haven't heard the new MacPro, but my G5 was the quietest dual processor I ever owned.
But really, they lowered the price, raised the performance, and I'm impressed enough to consider purchasing a 27", just to run Linux on it!

Reply Score: 2

v RE[5]: radeon M?
by tupp on Wed 4th May 2011 00:10 UTC in reply to "RE[4]: radeon M?"
RE[6]: radeon M?
by fasted on Wed 4th May 2011 02:09 UTC in reply to "RE[5]: radeon M?"
fasted Member since:
2006-11-09

"I am sure there are faster ones, I am sure that there are thinner ones (and we know how important that extra 1/16" of thinness is to a computer that sits on a desk).

Functioning? Please. When it's not malfunctioning, it's a Fisher Price item, at best.

Good looking? It doesn't look so good to me, especially with that big red fire extinguisher that one must always keep adjacent to it."

Let me guess, you have a big square box sitting on or around your desk, with 20 wire's , two speaker's, 3 power cords, and it doesn't faze you at all. Yeah, if you don't get it , then don't buy it. But in my humble opinion, it's neat, tidy, powerful , efficient , and very attractive. No lights, noisy fans, or neon lights and see through panels. Neat tidy vs what a fricken mess.
My friend's G5 sounded like a wind tunnel.
They were large diameter, low rpm fans, all 8 of them. Know why they did it like that? Because it's quite. In the 5 years I had it, the only time I ever heard the fan was on a memory test, and even then, it was quiter than 75 % of gaming rigs I've heard. There were a few that had fan issue's, but mine wasn't one of them. My PS3 was waayy louder.

Reply Score: 2

RE[7]: radeon M?
by tupp on Wed 4th May 2011 08:24 UTC in reply to "RE[6]: radeon M?"
tupp Member since:
2006-11-12

Let me guess, you have a big square box sitting on or around your desk, with 20 wire's , two speaker's, 3 power cords, and it doesn't faze you at all.

Direct personal attack?... Fine.

Now, let *ME* guess:

You often sit and admire your computer's housing with the power off. You admire your computer housing almost as much as you admire yourself in the mirror. However, you fail to realize that the design of your computer's housing is simply a cheap, banal, retro derivative from the talent-rich 1960s. You like to watch "Dancing With The Stars" and also entertainment awards shows (especially red carpet interviews). Your whole shallow world revolves around superficiality and materialism.


Yeah, if you don't get it , then don't buy it.

Oh, I get it... but I'm not "buying" it.

Reply Score: 1

RE[7]: radeon M?
by Neolander on Wed 4th May 2011 09:08 UTC in reply to "RE[6]: radeon M?"
Neolander Member since:
2010-03-08

Let me guess, you have a big square box sitting on or around your desk, with 20 wire's , two speaker's, 3 power cords, and it doesn't faze you at all. Yeah, if you don't get it , then don't buy it. But in my humble opinion, it's neat, tidy, powerful , efficient , and very attractive. No lights, noisy fans, or neon lights and see through panels. Neat tidy vs what a fricken mess.

Well, when I think of it... Pretty, tidy, extremely silent, made of laptop components...

No doubt, I have one on my desk. It's called a laptop. As a bonus feature, I also can carry it around when I need it.

I don't understand all-in-ones... They always sounds extremely expensive to me for something which is essentially a laptop with a larger screen and no integrated input devices... In my opinion, people who don't need more than a glorified laptop really should buy one instead of looking for a more bulky equivalent, and leave desktop computers for more heavy-duty tasks...

But there must be some side of this market which I've not understood yet.

Edited 2011-05-04 09:15 UTC

Reply Score: 2

RE[6]: radeon M?
by Neolander on Wed 4th May 2011 09:04 UTC in reply to "RE[5]: radeon M?"
Neolander Member since:
2010-03-08

tupp, I have to warn you... If you and mrhasbeen were to meet and touch each other one day, it would probably result in an explosion so strong that our whole galaxy would be disintegrated ;)

Reply Score: 2

RE[4]: radeon M?
by burnttoys on Wed 4th May 2011 10:35 UTC in reply to "RE[3]: radeon M?"
burnttoys Member since:
2008-12-20

I remember this from "back in the day"...

"Amstrad decided to alter the PC by simplifying its design and reducing its power consumption. As a result, they were able to remove the power supply from the main case and feed it with power from the monitor instead. This eliminated the need for a cooling fan ... it was only a matter of time before anti-Amstrad FUD came along. Thus, unsubstantiated rumours such as that Amstrads overheated and malfunctioned as a result of not having a cooling fan, forced Amstrad to install -useless- fans in their machines where there was no power supply to be found. This illustrates how powerful FUD tactics are because they caused Amstrad to give up one of its advantages over the rest of the market just to alleviate the impression of unreliability it had been smeared with."

http://members.hellug.gr/vyruss/computing/FUD_essay.html

Reply Score: 1

RE[4]: radeon M?
by viton on Wed 4th May 2011 14:28 UTC in reply to "RE[3]: radeon M?"
viton Member since:
2005-08-09

They are certainly "a good thing."
They're here to deal with overheating that is a problem in the first place.

use slow/crippled mobile processors.
I don't think quad core i5 @ 3.1Ghz is a slow processor.
It is at least 5 times faster then my current Core2Duo laptop, that 100% fulfill my needs. Actually I'm migrating to low-power ARM devices.

By the way, is it wise to put a frail, "fru-fru" computer into a harsh, dusty environment?
I have 3 cats so it is a little dusty place.

It looks like the Macpro may have one or two "stupid," "dust-collecting" holes with an "active" and "annoyingly noisy" fan.
I'm not an Apple fanboy, so you missed here.

Well, then I guess you won't be getting a Macpro:
You're right

Reply Score: 2

RE[3]: radeon M?
by ggeldenhuys on Wed 4th May 2011 08:26 UTC in reply to "RE[2]: radeon M?"
ggeldenhuys Member since:
2006-11-13

My wife's 21.5" iMac (mid 2010 model) is everything but slow! And she uses the iMac for her digital photography business with Adobe Photoshop and very large RAW images. I'm actually very jealous because my Dell Inspiron laptop now feels very slow compared to her machine.

Reply Score: 2

RE[2]: radeon M?
by kaiwai on Wed 4th May 2011 01:07 UTC in reply to "RE: radeon M?"
kaiwai Member since:
2005-07-06

"I know that all in ones have heating constraints...

Not really. The all-in-one heat problem exists almost entirely in the products of a single manufacturer who is afraid of vent holes and fans.

Guess which manufacturer.
"

Funny enough here I am with an iMac and MacBook Pro without such problems - maybe I'm just the worlds luckiest man ;)

Reply Score: 4

RE[3]: radeon M?
by ggeldenhuys on Wed 4th May 2011 08:33 UTC in reply to "RE[2]: radeon M?"
ggeldenhuys Member since:
2006-11-13

Funny enough here I am with an iMac and MacBook Pro without such problems - maybe I'm just the worlds luckiest man ;)

Nope, you are not alone. My wife's iMac behaves like yours. No heat issues!

Yes we have heard the fans switch on once after she processed very large RAW images with many Photoshop filter macros running. Once the hard work was done and the fans did their job, the iMac was silent and cool again. ;)

Reply Score: 2

RE[4]: radeon M?
by kaiwai on Wed 4th May 2011 15:26 UTC in reply to "RE[3]: radeon M?"
kaiwai Member since:
2005-07-06

Nope, you are not alone. My wife's iMac behaves like yours. No heat issues!

Yes we have heard the fans switch on once after she processed very large RAW images with many Photoshop filter macros running. Once the hard work was done and the fans did their job, the iMac was silent and cool again. ;)


Agreed; side issue, I'd be concerned if the fans didn't switch on under a heavy load lol. It is amazing the number of Mac and non-Mac users who try to claim that 'fans going equals bad design' whilst ignoring what the purpose of a fan is in the first place ;)

Another problem people ignore is this; most CPU's and GPU's have a max temperature of 110degrees celsius so it is amazing the number of paranoid people wetting their pants when the temperature reaches 60 degrees celsius. For me I've pushed my MacBook Pro's CPU temp up to 95 degrees celsius without impacting on any of the other components.

Oh well, I must remind myself not to get myself dragged into endless debates ;)

Reply Score: 2

RE[5]: radeon M?
by Thom_Holwerda on Wed 4th May 2011 15:33 UTC in reply to "RE[4]: radeon M?"
Thom_Holwerda Member since:
2005-06-29

For me I've pushed my MacBook Pro's CPU temp up to 95 degrees celsius without impacting on any of the other components.


Well, except for your genitals, obviously.

I had a harmless gay-joke ready here as well, but while I think you can handle that just fine, I'm not sure other, less thick-skinned people could handle it ;) .

Reply Score: 1

RE[6]: radeon M?
by Neolander on Wed 4th May 2011 16:18 UTC in reply to "RE[5]: radeon M?"
Neolander Member since:
2010-03-08

Oh, well, for that there's already wi-fi ;)

Edited 2011-05-04 16:19 UTC

Reply Score: 1

RE[6]: radeon M?
by kaiwai on Thu 5th May 2011 01:27 UTC in reply to "RE[5]: radeon M?"
kaiwai Member since:
2005-07-06

Well, except for your genitals, obviously.


Great balls of fire! then again trying to fap with a laptop on ones lap is pretty difficult even on the most comfortable chair lol.

I had a harmless gay-joke ready here as well, but while I think you can handle that just fine, I'm not sure other, less thick-skinned people could handle it ;) .


lol, I have to admit it has been years since I've put a laptop on my lap - most of the time I put it on my coffee table lol

Reply Score: 2

RE[5]: radeon M?
by Neolander on Wed 4th May 2011 16:18 UTC in reply to "RE[4]: radeon M?"
Neolander Member since:
2010-03-08

Agreed; side issue, I'd be concerned if the fans didn't switch on under a heavy load lol. It is amazing the number of Mac and non-Mac users who try to claim that 'fans going equals bad design' whilst ignoring what the purpose of a fan is in the first place ;)

Indeed. Besides, I wonder : when fans start to make less noise than our urban environment, are they that much of an annoyance ? I mean, I have read some reviews before buying my laptop, and the reviewers measured the noise during typical use to be 30 dB(A). In practice, road traffic as heard through my insulated windows is frequently more noisy, and yet the laptop remains cool. When we've reached that point, what are those few remaining dBs worth, save for the glory of technological achievement ?

Another problem people ignore is this; most CPU's and GPU's have a max temperature of 110degrees celsius so it is amazing the number of paranoid people wetting their pants when the temperature reaches 60 degrees celsius. For me I've pushed my MacBook Pro's CPU temp up to 95 degrees celsius without impacting on any of the other components.

Yes and no.

On one side, my experience tends to follow yours. My former desktop's CPU went as high as 90°C, due the mixture of inefficient technology (ah, the Athlon XP...) and an incredibly low-end noisy fan that couldn't be changed. And when I changed it for a more powerful one after 7 years, the sole piece of it which started to show its age was the failing HDD.

However, in theory, running CPUs at high temperatures comes with the risk of reducing their lifetime. So if you make your hardware last longer than mine and try to make it reach the theoretical lifetime of a CPU, which is around 20 years IIRC, you might find it to be only 10 or 15 years due to accelerated ageing. In the chip industry, lifetime measurements are typically done by heating up components way above their typical operating temperature in order to reduce their lifetime to something practical.

Plus, silicon is far from having the best thermal conductivity on Earth, and the CPU thermal sensor only reports the temperature at one point of the die. Peak temperature within the chip can be higher than the readings you get, so better take some security margins.

Finally, in small computers where space constraints make the air flow quite small (laptops, all-in-ones, mini-PCs...), a hot CPU can heat up some other component which *does* mind the increased temp. As an example, I've heard that HDD lifetime is reduced a lot if they get above 60°C, and that laptop batteries also HATE heat (which would be on of the main causes for premature battery death).

So although it works in practice, I do think that letting CPUs get too hot is a mistake which can cost the life of some components if you're not lucky, especially on lower-end hardware (think Acer notebooks).

That being said...

Oh well, I must remind myself not to get myself dragged into endless debates ;)

Me too ;)

Edited 2011-05-04 16:20 UTC

Reply Score: 1

Using DisplayPort as input device?
by rob_mx on Tue 3rd May 2011 21:13 UTC
rob_mx
Member since:
2005-08-04

I didn't see in the spec the support for using the DisplayPort as input device (to connect the output of another DP device to the the iMac and use it as an external monitor). The previous 27" model has that capability? Did they removed that feature? or is it included in the thunderbolt thing?

Reply Score: 2

parrotjoe Member since:
2005-07-06

a

Edited 2011-05-03 23:19 UTC

Reply Score: 1

bugjacobs Member since:
2009-01-03

Yup I believe the Thunderbolt is Displayport+USB3 rolled into one, and two ways at the same time (?)

Reply Score: 1