Linked by Thom Holwerda on Tue 24th May 2011 17:15 UTC
Windows It's about time! Microsoft has just detailed its next update to Windows Phone 7. This update, codenamed 'Mango', will bump the version number from 7.0.7 to 7.1, and will include 500 new features (how Redmond reached that number, god only knows). The developer tools are out in beta form today. There's a lot of cool stuff in there, such as the already known pseudo-multitasking and the hardware accelerated Internet Explorer 9, but also a lot of stuff we didn't know anything about. Also, news on new hardware partners, and, of course, Nokia.
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Was it worth the hype?
by Zolookas on Tue 24th May 2011 18:06 UTC
Zolookas
Member since:
2006-03-01

I really hoped Microsoft would bring something more with, but for now i can see that WP7.1 is only a catch-up release:

1. IE gets an upgrade. WP finally gets an HTML5 capable browser which is hardware accelerated.
2. Bing Scout looks like Google Places.
3. Bing Vision looks like Google Goggles.
4. Multi-tasking looks like the same thing in WebOS. That's probably the most obvious way to do multi-tasking, but it is a bit unclear how it will actually work (applications are paused when switching between them in the demo) especially when you have a lot of apps opened.
5. Notifications look good, but it can be difficult to notice if you have many tiles and some of them want to notify you while others are just showing some other random things.

Reply Score: 2

RE: Was it worth the hype?
by Thom_Holwerda on Tue 24th May 2011 18:16 UTC in reply to "Was it worth the hype?"
Thom_Holwerda Member since:
2005-06-29

1. IE gets an upgrade. WP finally gets an HTML5 capable browser which is hardware accelerated.


Which, if the descriptions are accurate, is actually better than what Android and iOS have to offer. Of course, Apple and Google aren't sitting still until autumn.

2. Bing Scout looks like Google Places.


...but fully integrated into the operating system.

3. Bing Vision looks like Google Goggles.


...but fully integrated into the operating system.

4. Multi-tasking looks like the same thing in WebOS. That's probably the most obvious way to do multi-tasking, but it is a bit unclear how it will actually work (applications are paused when switching between them in the demo) especially when you have a lot of apps opened.


That's why I called it pseudo-multitasking ;) .

Edited 2011-05-24 18:16 UTC

Reply Score: 1

RE[2]: Was it worth the hype?
by Zolookas on Tue 24th May 2011 18:40 UTC in reply to "RE: Was it worth the hype?"
Zolookas Member since:
2006-03-01

Which, if the descriptions are accurate, is actually better than what Android and iOS have to offer. Of course, Apple and Google aren't sitting still until autumn.


Somebody needs to test what kind of support mobile browsers have. Android and iOS mobile browsers don't implement everything Chrome and Safari has to offer, but they still score better than IE9 in html5test meaning they might have some advantage in new technology support.

...but fully integrated into the operating system.


I don't really see how this makes a difference. On the other hand social network integration probably does make a difference.

Edited 2011-05-24 18:48 UTC

Reply Score: 1

RE: Was it worth the hype?
by Adurbe on Tue 24th May 2011 18:41 UTC in reply to "Was it worth the hype?"
Adurbe Member since:
2005-07-06

As an owner of a Windows Phone, trust me, these are Welcome updates

The tiles are remarkable in practical use. You find yourself glancing at the phone and knowing whats going on. Having a long list is simply the case of one scroll with your thumb.

The thing I hope this part of Mango is better support for landscape views. That is honestly my only complaint that this update doesnt rectify (not explicitly anyway)

Reply Score: 2

It doesn't stink anymore!
by Bill Shooter of Bul on Tue 24th May 2011 18:24 UTC
Bill Shooter of Bul
Member since:
2006-07-14

The old IE made it a very unattractive device for me. Now its just a matter of preference. Its no longer a stupid smartphone.

Reply Score: 3

Comment by shmerl
by shmerl on Tue 24th May 2011 19:13 UTC
shmerl
Member since:
2010-06-08

No NDK still? Trash it.

Edited 2011-05-24 19:15 UTC

Reply Score: 3

Comment by Kroc
by Kroc on Tue 24th May 2011 19:19 UTC
Kroc
Member since:
2005-11-10

Look how easily you can buy books you already own a second time!

Reply Score: 2

RE: Comment by Kroc
by Thom_Holwerda on Tue 24th May 2011 19:42 UTC in reply to "Comment by Kroc"
Thom_Holwerda Member since:
2005-06-29

How about books at friends? CDs in a store?

Reply Score: 1

RE[2]: Comment by Kroc
by twitterfire on Tue 24th May 2011 20:48 UTC in reply to "RE: Comment by Kroc"
twitterfire Member since:
2008-09-11

How about books at friends? CDs in a store?


The store is that place where you scroll with mouse wheel, click and buy with paypal? ;)

Reply Score: 2

Game updates in Mango
by moondevil on Tue 24th May 2011 20:29 UTC
moondevil
Member since:
2005-07-08

For those of you that want to know was in new concerning game development, there is some information here,

http://create.msdn.com/en-US/education/catalog/article/whats_new_fo...

Reply Score: 2

RE: Game updates in Mango
by shmerl on Tue 24th May 2011 20:34 UTC in reply to "Game updates in Mango"
shmerl Member since:
2010-06-08

Where's OpenGL?

Reply Score: 2

RE[2]: Game updates in Mango
by twitterfire on Tue 24th May 2011 20:46 UTC in reply to "RE: Game updates in Mango"
twitterfire Member since:
2008-09-11

Where's OpenGL?


In the same place as DirectX and XNA are on iOS and Android.

Have more questions?

Reply Score: 4

RE[3]: Game updates in Mango
by shmerl on Tue 24th May 2011 20:49 UTC in reply to "RE[2]: Game updates in Mango"
shmerl Member since:
2010-06-08

Not comparable. OpenGL is available virtually anywhere, except such "walled gardens" who don't allow any competing libraries to be present (for example with restricting access to NDK how MS does in this case).

However some tried to implement XNA to other platforms:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Microsoft_XNA#Alternative_implementati...

And what do you know? It uses OpenGL!
http://www.monoxna.org/node/4
So again, why do you need it in the first place?

Edited 2011-05-24 20:52 UTC

Reply Score: 1

RE[4]: Game updates in Mango
by Thom_Holwerda on Tue 24th May 2011 20:51 UTC in reply to "RE[3]: Game updates in Mango"
Thom_Holwerda Member since:
2005-06-29

Not comparable. OpenGL is available virtually anywhere, except such "walled gardens" who don't allow any competing libraries to be present (for example with restricting access to NDK how MS does in this case).

However some tried to implement XNA to other platforms:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Microsoft_XNA#Alternative_implementati...


DirectX > OpenGL.

There's your reason.

Edited 2011-05-24 20:51 UTC

Reply Score: 2

RE[5]: Game updates in Mango
by shmerl on Tue 24th May 2011 20:54 UTC in reply to "RE[4]: Game updates in Mango"
shmerl Member since:
2010-06-08

Someone tried to port DirectX for MacOS or Linux? Or may be it's available on several mobile OSes too?-) The fact that desktop games mostly run on Windows and use DirectX doesn't make it better. Feature wise OpenGL is on par with it.

Reply Score: 1

RE[6]: Game updates in Mango
by twitterfire on Tue 24th May 2011 20:59 UTC in reply to "RE[5]: Game updates in Mango"
twitterfire Member since:
2008-09-11

Someone tried to port DirectX for MacOS or Linux? Or may be it's available on several mobile OSes too?-) The fact that desktop games mostly run on Windows and use DirectX doesn't make it better. Feature wise OpenGL is on par with it.


DirectX is proprietary, so the only entity who can port it to Linux or OsX would be it's owner.

However, its owner doesn't have any benefit from porting it to said oses.

Edited 2011-05-24 21:05 UTC

Reply Score: 2

RE[7]: Game updates in Mango
by shmerl on Tue 24th May 2011 21:04 UTC in reply to "RE[6]: Game updates in Mango"
shmerl Member since:
2010-06-08

Therefore it's a significant DirectX's deficiency from developers perspective.

Reply Score: 3

RE[6]: Game updates in Mango
by oiaohm on Tue 24th May 2011 21:59 UTC in reply to "RE[5]: Game updates in Mango"
oiaohm Member since:
2009-05-30

Someone tried to port DirectX for MacOS or Linux? Or may be it's available on several mobile OSes too?-) The fact that desktop games mostly run on Windows and use DirectX doesn't make it better. Feature wise OpenGL is on par with it.

Yes its called Wined3d. Currently does not support android Opengl ES and is X11 dependent.

Reply Score: 1

RE[7]: Game updates in Mango
by shmerl on Tue 24th May 2011 22:15 UTC in reply to "RE[6]: Game updates in Mango"
shmerl Member since:
2010-06-08

That's not a port, rather a wrapper over OpenGL which implements some of the DirectX functionality. And it doesn't implement the most up to date DirectX api anyhow.

Reply Score: 2

RE[5]: Game updates in Mango
by moondevil on Wed 25th May 2011 06:27 UTC in reply to "RE[4]: Game updates in Mango"
moondevil Member since:
2005-07-08

Exactly!

On the desktop world, OpenGL 4.0 is still lacking some features from DirectX 11.

Plus not all DirectX 11 cards have an OpenGL 4.x driver, or even OpenGL 3.x (Intel).

Reply Score: 2

RE[6]: Game updates in Mango
by oiaohm on Wed 25th May 2011 10:00 UTC in reply to "RE[5]: Game updates in Mango"
oiaohm Member since:
2009-05-30

Exactly!

On the desktop world, OpenGL 4.0 is still lacking some features from DirectX 11.

Plus not all DirectX 11 cards have an OpenGL 4.x driver, or even OpenGL 3.x (Intel).


Really bad quote. Intel cards with poor opengl support basically don't have a GPU. Serous-ally. Hello software rendering for most operations. Yep you can be a direct x 11 certified card even if you use CPU todo it.

Also Opengl 4.0 is the old opengl current is 4.1.

Opengl 4.0 what features do you say are missing. Simple system to software render I guess would be one.

Opengl is loved by video card makers for 1 particular reason. Opengl supports video makers doing custom extensions. All the Direct X 11 features exist in them.

Yes Opengl writing of formal spec covering all that is an issue.

Reply Score: 2

RE[7]: Game updates in Mango
by moondevil on Wed 25th May 2011 10:21 UTC in reply to "RE[6]: Game updates in Mango"
moondevil Member since:
2005-07-08


Opengl is loved by video card makers for 1 particular reason. Opengl supports video makers doing custom extensions. All the Direct X 11 features exist in them.


Kind of true. Not all card support a specific set of extensions, while with DX the support is there across the board. This eases the way game engines are written.

Reply Score: 2

RE[6]: Game updates in Mango
by twitterfire on Wed 25th May 2011 13:33 UTC in reply to "RE[5]: Game updates in Mango"
twitterfire Member since:
2008-09-11

Exactly!

On the desktop world, OpenGL 4.0 is still lacking some features from DirectX 11.

Plus not all DirectX 11 cards have an OpenGL 4.x driver, or even OpenGL 3.x (Intel).


Meh, you don't need all features in DirectX 11 at this time. Nice games aren't going to work with Intel cards anyway and Nvidia and Amd have almost up to date drivers.

I see another bigger issue here: DirectX drivers are much better implemented than OpenGL drivers by both Nvidia and Ati. That can cause performance loss, artifacts and other problems.

Reply Score: 2

RE[7]: Game updates in Mango
by moondevil on Wed 25th May 2011 19:06 UTC in reply to "RE[6]: Game updates in Mango"
moondevil Member since:
2005-07-08

If you want to target casual gamers on the PC world, OpenGL is a no go, unfortunately.

Reply Score: 2

RE[4]: Game updates in Mango
by twitterfire on Tue 24th May 2011 20:53 UTC in reply to "RE[3]: Game updates in Mango"
twitterfire Member since:
2008-09-11

Not comparable. OpenGL is available virtually anywhere, except such "walled gardens" who don't allow any competing libraries to be present (for example with restricting access to NDK how MS does in this case).

However some tried to implement XNA to other platforms:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Microsoft_XNA#Alternative_implementati...


You have XNA on Windows, Windows Phone and Xbox, so it's pretty much portable. ;)

Almost all things software are portable, depends if someone has enough motivation to port them.

Reply Score: 2

RE[5]: Game updates in Mango
by shmerl on Tue 24th May 2011 20:56 UTC in reply to "RE[4]: Game updates in Mango"
shmerl Member since:
2010-06-08

OpenGL you have everywhere else, plus on Windows.

Reply Score: 1

RE[6]: Game updates in Mango
by twitterfire on Tue 24th May 2011 21:00 UTC in reply to "RE[5]: Game updates in Mango"
twitterfire Member since:
2008-09-11

OpenGL you have everywhere else, plus on Windows.


Yep, that's why gamers choose anything else but Windows as a gaming platform. ;) ;)

Reply Score: 3

RE[7]: Game updates in Mango
by shmerl on Tue 24th May 2011 21:05 UTC in reply to "RE[6]: Game updates in Mango"
shmerl Member since:
2010-06-08

Right, for example iOS.

Gamers basically use what's available, and Microsoft tries to monopolize the market. As they always did. There is no other reasons why they don't release NDK for WPx.

Edited 2011-05-24 21:08 UTC

Reply Score: 2

RE[6]: Game updates in Mango
by moondevil on Wed 25th May 2011 06:24 UTC in reply to "RE[5]: Game updates in Mango"
moondevil Member since:
2005-07-08

No you don't.

If you are referring to mobiles then yes, but it is not OpenGL rather OpenGL ES, which is not exactly the same.

If you are referencing to game consoles, most have OpenGL like APIs but they are not exactly OpenGL.

I only code for OpenGL but in terms of developer support OpenGL is no match for DirectX.

Professional game studios don't care about APIs, they are about support. Porting is an issue handled by subcontractors.

And in the support league OpenGL cannot match DirectX.

- Hardware features are done in sync with DirectX development;
- There is no proper SDK;
- Graphic analysis tools are a joke compared with what is available for DirectX, except for gDebugger, which is actually quite good.

Have any of you went to a Games Developer Conference? The amount of OpenGL related talks is minimal when compared with DirectX. There is usually a Microsoft booth to handle DirectX related issues, but none for OpenGL.

If it wasn't for the iPhone and its bet on OpenGL, the API would have died already.

Fortunately due to the mobile games market fostered by the iPhone, OpenGL ES is now becoming a choice for many studios. But again, just because that is the API that is available. If it would be PHIGS, they would use it as well.

Reply Score: 3

RE[7]: Game updates in Mango
by _txf_ on Wed 25th May 2011 11:14 UTC in reply to "RE[6]: Game updates in Mango"
_txf_ Member since:
2008-03-17

If it wasn't for the iPhone and its bet on OpenGL, the API would have died already.

Fortunately due to the mobile games market fostered by the iPhone, OpenGL ES is now becoming a choice for many studios. But again, just because that is the API that is available. If it would be PHIGS, they would use it as well.


I find it hard to believe that Sony and Nintendo would swallow DirectX for any of their consoles...

Reply Score: 2

RE[7]: Game updates in Mango
by twitterfire on Wed 25th May 2011 13:28 UTC in reply to "RE[6]: Game updates in Mango"
twitterfire Member since:
2008-09-11

No you don't.

If you are referring to mobiles then yes, but it is not OpenGL rather OpenGL ES, which is not exactly the same.

If you are referencing to game consoles, most have OpenGL like APIs but they are not exactly OpenGL.

I only code for OpenGL but in terms of developer support OpenGL is no match for DirectX.

Professional game studios don't care about APIs, they are about support. Porting is an issue handled by subcontractors.

And in the support league OpenGL cannot match DirectX.

- Hardware features are done in sync with DirectX development;
- There is no proper SDK;
- Graphic analysis tools are a joke compared with what is available for DirectX, except for gDebugger, which is actually quite good.

Have any of you went to a Games Developer Conference? The amount of OpenGL related talks is minimal when compared with DirectX. There is usually a Microsoft booth to handle DirectX related issues, but none for OpenGL.

If it wasn't for the iPhone and its bet on OpenGL, the API would have died already.

Fortunately due to the mobile games market fostered by the iPhone, OpenGL ES is now becoming a choice for many studios. But again, just because that is the API that is available. If it would be PHIGS, they would use it as well.


That's the most rational point of view. But the guy who was bashing DirectX is in fact a freetard and he would love to see MS releasing an open sourced (and ofc GNU GPL) version of DirectX for Linux and Mac, game companies to release their most successful games as open source (ofc, GNU GPL). I'm afraid that's never going to happen even in the wettest dreams of freetards as programmers and game designers need to eat and companies want to make profit.

Reply Score: 2

RE[7]: Game updates in Mango
by tylerdurden on Wed 25th May 2011 15:34 UTC in reply to "RE[6]: Game updates in Mango"
tylerdurden Member since:
2009-03-17



If it wasn't for the iPhone and its bet on OpenGL, the API would have died already.


And if it wasn't for Windows, DirectX would have died a long time ago.

Reply Score: 2

RE[3]: Game updates in Mango
by tanishaj on Thu 26th May 2011 05:18 UTC in reply to "RE[2]: Game updates in Mango"
tanishaj Member since:
2010-12-22

Where's OpenGL?


In the same place as DirectX and XNA are on iOS and Android.

Have more questions?


One question yes.

Here is where XNA is on iOS and Android:

http://monogame.codeplex.com/

Well, actually I guess it is now here:

https://github.com/mono/MonoGame

So, my question is, "Where is OpenGL on Windows Phone 7?"

Sorry, I just had to. :-)

Reply Score: 1

v Comment by Luminair
by Luminair on Tue 24th May 2011 20:33 UTC
RE: Comment by Luminair
by Luminair on Wed 25th May 2011 02:38 UTC in reply to "Comment by Luminair"
Luminair Member since:
2007-03-30

To the four Windows Phone fanboys who rated me down, consider this: The market cannot support iOS, Android, Blackberry OS, Windows Phone 7, and WebOS for long. Pick who dies first, second, and third. I'm curious.

Reply Score: 0

RE[2]: Comment by Luminair
by Bill Shooter of Bul on Wed 25th May 2011 03:39 UTC in reply to "RE: Comment by Luminair"
Bill Shooter of Bul Member since:
2006-07-14

I'm not an admirer windows phone by an stretch, but this sounds like a fun game:

Mobile phone Death watch ( In order of closest to death)

1)Web OS (Sad, but HP hasn't done anything in a while)
2)Symbian ( not even on your list? Its less dead than web os IMHO)
3)Blackberry ( will live on as a stupid smartphone that people use because of enterprise apps, the ie 6 of smartphones)

I'd ad a fourth, but I think Microsoft, which will be in third place by a long margin, will keep pluging away at it. They've been known to throw good money after bad for years until they've killed the competition, or they get bored with it (which is what happened to windows mobile before the iphone came around).

Reply Score: 2

RE[2]: Comment by Luminair
by kaiwai on Wed 25th May 2011 06:09 UTC in reply to "RE: Comment by Luminair"
kaiwai Member since:
2005-07-06

To the four Windows Phone fanboys who rated me down, consider this: The market cannot support iOS, Android, Blackberry OS, Windows Phone 7, and WebOS for long. Pick who dies first, second, and third. I'm curious.


But you are assuming that long term that locally run applications will remain the dominant way of doing things. There is a reason why Apple, Google, Microsoft and others are so focused on browser performance - because at some stage in the future it will become the dominant way of doing things even if they are installed locally but run in a browser.

You also assume that all vendors want to go after mass market where as HP and BlackBerry might be quite content with focusing primarily on the large corporate market where razzle dazzle plays second fiddle to more pressing requirements.

Reply Score: 2

RE[2]: Comment by Luminair
by twitterfire on Wed 25th May 2011 13:08 UTC in reply to "RE: Comment by Luminair"
twitterfire Member since:
2008-09-11

To the four Windows Phone fanboys who rated me down, consider this: The market cannot support iOS, Android, Blackberry OS, Windows Phone 7, and WebOS for long. Pick who dies first, second, and third. I'm curious.


One thing's for sure, iOS, Android and Windows Phone are going to stay for a long amount of time. Blackberry OS, WebOS and Symbian might be the first mobile oses to die.

Reply Score: 2

RE[3]: Comment by Luminair
by Moochman on Wed 25th May 2011 16:13 UTC in reply to "RE[2]: Comment by Luminair"
Moochman Member since:
2005-07-06

Blackberry OS in its current form and Symbian are actually both scheduled to die. Blackberry will be replaced with a new QNX-based OS, Symbian will be replaced with WP7 and MeeGo. webOS isn't even comparable to these other two. It is young and has great potential, as opposed to the other two which are old and crufty and can't keep up anymore.

Reply Score: 2

Symbian and WP7
by spiderman on Tue 24th May 2011 20:47 UTC
spiderman
Member since:
2008-10-23

A lot of stuff here look like they were copied from Symbian. I don't know the details of the deal with Nokia but it looks like MS got some patents and/or some software expertise from Nokia, on top of a hardware manufacturer. I'm thinking more precisely about Social networks and Threads.

Reply Score: 1

RE: Symbian and WP7
by VZsolt on Wed 25th May 2011 06:02 UTC in reply to "Symbian and WP7"
VZsolt Member since:
2008-10-31

Do you mean copying the half-assed implementation Nokia and the puppet-Foundation put into S^3? Nah, these features were already available and running on other systems way before.

Reply Score: 1

RE: Symbian and WP7
by Moochman on Wed 25th May 2011 11:48 UTC in reply to "Symbian and WP7"
Moochman Member since:
2005-07-06

Threads is pretty much the same as what you get in the Messaging app on webOS (actually I find the webOS implementation just a tad bit more elegant, since you can choose the communication method via a drop-down). webOS by default supports Google Talk/Gmail Chat, AIM, Yahoo and SMS, but third-party Facebook chat, Jabber and Windows Live Messenger plug-ins are also available.

Reply Score: 2

v The means to add 500 features
by oiaohm on Tue 24th May 2011 22:03 UTC
RE: The means to add 500 features
by twitterfire on Tue 24th May 2011 22:06 UTC in reply to "The means to add 500 features"
twitterfire Member since:
2008-09-11

So boy the WP7.0 must be junk. Looking forward to hearing the people scream who cannot upgrade.


Looking forward to more MS bashing from Apple and Google fanboys.

Reply Score: 3

hollovoid Member since:
2005-09-21

Its inevitable, I own a Droid X, but I gotta tell you, my old ladys focus looks, and performs very nicely. Androids "stutter" always drives me up the wall, but WP7 seems to flow like melted butter all the time. I like both, but from a visual standpoint, it just feels better.

Reply Score: 2

WorknMan Member since:
2005-11-13

Its inevitable, I own a Droid X, but I gotta tell you, my old ladys focus looks, and performs very nicely. Androids "stutter" always drives me up the wall, but WP7 seems to flow like melted butter all the time. I like both, but from a visual standpoint, it just feels better.


If you're running the default DroidX rom with MotoSuck, that's your problem. Root your device and install a stock rom. Granted, that shouldn't be required, but on Android, you pretty much need to get rid of the shitty vendor bloatware on a non-Google phone for a smooth experience ;)

Reply Score: 2

kaiwai Member since:
2005-07-06

Looking forward to more MS bashing from Apple and Google fanboys.


Well, truth be told I am a big Mac fan but I own a windows phone 7 and I couldn't be happier. It syncs with my iMac\MacBook Pro perfectly, browsing is snappy, solid reception, and the UI is gorgeous. Wp7 is an example of what Microsoft can produce if the focus on the the task at hand instead of getting distracted on trivial crap no one cares about.

Edited 2011-05-25 06:50 UTC

Reply Score: 3

Thom_Holwerda Member since:
2005-06-29

The current Xbox UI - same thing. So much more coherent and easier to use than the Wii and esp. the PS3 (which is a UI nightmare).

Edited 2011-05-25 07:13 UTC

Reply Score: 1

_txf_ Member since:
2008-03-17

The current Xbox UI - same thing. So much more coherent and easier to use than the Wii and esp. the PS3 (which is a UI nightmare).


I actually prefer the ps3 way of doing things. The xbox ui is soo graphically rich I get lost in it. Also there is too much menu shifting in the ui. In the ps3 everything is much more anchored around xmb.

The wii interface I find to be merely serviceable and if it offered what the xbox offered then it really would not scale properly.

Reply Score: 2

twitterfire Member since:
2008-09-11

"Looking forward to more MS bashing from Apple and Google fanboys.


Well, truth be told I am a big Mac fan but I own a windows phone 7 and I couldn't be happier. It syncs with my iMac\MacBook Pro perfectly, browsing is snappy, solid reception, and the UI is gorgeous. Wp7 is an example of what Microsoft can produce if the focus on the the task at hand instead of getting distracted on trivial crap no one cares about.
"

Wait until they broke it, they are famous for doing nice things and broking them some time after.

Reply Score: 2

Same fonts...
by vtolkov on Tue 24th May 2011 23:54 UTC
vtolkov
Member since:
2006-07-26

Still the same combination of extra large fonts with extra small ones. Nothing in the comfortable range. You can't read title, it does not fit the screen, and you can't read text, it requires glasses.

Reply Score: 1

RE: Same fonts...
by Thom_Holwerda on Tue 24th May 2011 23:55 UTC in reply to "Same fonts..."
Thom_Holwerda Member since:
2005-06-29

Still the same combination of extra large fonts with extra small ones. Nothing in the comfortable range. You can't read title, it does not fit the screen, and you can't read text, it requires glasses.


What?

Reply Score: 1

RE[2]: Same fonts...
by vtolkov on Tue 24th May 2011 23:58 UTC in reply to "RE: Same fonts..."
vtolkov Member since:
2006-07-26

"Still the same combination of extra large fonts with extra small ones. Nothing in the comfortable range. You can't read title, it does not fit the screen, and you can't read text, it requires glasses.


What?
"

WP7 UI design.

Reply Score: 1

RE[3]: Same fonts...
by kaiwai on Wed 25th May 2011 06:55 UTC in reply to "RE[2]: Same fonts..."
kaiwai Member since:
2005-07-06

Please, don't blame Microsoft because your vision sucks royally.

Reply Score: 2

RE[4]: Same fonts...
by vtolkov on Wed 25th May 2011 07:07 UTC in reply to "RE[3]: Same fonts..."
vtolkov Member since:
2006-07-26

Please, don't blame Microsoft because your vision sucks royally.


How nice of you.

Reply Score: 1

To all A....e fanboys
by twitterfire on Wed 25th May 2011 13:12 UTC
twitterfire
Member since:
2008-09-11

Windows Phone is now at its first incarnation, its infancy. Can you really say that you played with both iOS at its first release in 2007 and Windows Phone now and iOS was better?

Wait 4 more years and Windows Phone will be much better. (ofc if MS doesn't screw it, which is possible).

Reply Score: 2

RE: To all A....e fanboys
by tylerdurden on Wed 25th May 2011 15:41 UTC in reply to "To all A....e fanboys"
tylerdurden Member since:
2009-03-17

Windows Phone comes from Windows CE, which technically predates iOS by over a decade.

Yes, its UI is new and has little in terms of software backwards compatibility with other version of Windows Mobile. Software compatibility used to be Microsoft's main value proposition, but that doesn't seem to have translated to the mobile market which is why Windows Phone devices aren't exactly flying off the shelves.

Reply Score: 2

RE[2]: To all A....e fanboys
by Moochman on Wed 25th May 2011 16:16 UTC in reply to "RE: To all A....e fanboys"
Moochman Member since:
2005-07-06

Hahaha, if you want to play that game then iOS still beats WP7. It is based on OS X, which is based on NextStep/the Mach kernel, which dates back to 1985!

Admittedly though, within the last 15 years Windows CE changed a lot less than NextStep/OS X. For instance, I think Windows Forms stayed pretty much the same, even with the introduction of mobile .NET. Says something, doesn't it.

Edited 2011-05-25 16:20 UTC

Reply Score: 2

RE[3]: To all A....e fanboys
by tylerdurden on Wed 25th May 2011 23:35 UTC in reply to "RE[2]: To all A....e fanboys"
tylerdurden Member since:
2009-03-17

Well, technically my point was that Windows Phone predated iOS on their application market: i.e. mobile devices, for well over a decade. ;-)

In markets where Microsoft hasn't been able to leverage their near monopoly in the desktop space, they haven't performed too stellarly (sic). Even like in the case of mobile and handleds, where Microsoft presence predates almost every other major player (Google, Apple, even Blackberry).

Reply Score: 2

naming scheme
by Skai on Fri 27th May 2011 09:27 UTC
Skai
Member since:
2010-08-19

So,
windows "7" is really a "6.1", as far as real developpement is involved.

windows phone 7 get the name "7" to catch up with the other product, only it has nothing in common with it.

It gets a minor update called "7.1" and is also called Mango.

And we're supposed to think windows is easy to use and follow.

Reply Score: 1