Linked by Moochman on Tue 24th May 2011 21:11 UTC
PDAs, Cellphones, Wireless MeetMeego.org has the dirt on the details of Nokia's next two MeeGo devices [German]. To sum up: the first device, the (very) long-awaited N9, has a similar design to the N900 - a horizontal sliding 4-line keyboard, but this time with a tiltable screen, a 1GHz ARM Cortex A8-based processor, a 12MP camera with Carl Zeiss lens, and HDMI out. It will be a developer device, distributed at developer conferences such as the MeeGo Conference in San Francisco in a couple of days.
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Comment by shmerl
by shmerl on Tue 24th May 2011 21:53 UTC
shmerl
Member since:
2010-06-08

All this information (about specs) is unconfirmed. So far no announcements were made about these devices on Meego conference.

Edited 2011-05-24 21:54 UTC

Reply Score: 2

RE: Comment by shmerl
by Lennie on Tue 24th May 2011 23:36 UTC in reply to "Comment by shmerl"
Lennie Member since:
2007-09-22

No kidding, in February it was running Atom, now it is on ARM. ;-)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yghf-EL7pFg

Design looks similair though

Reply Score: 2

RE[2]: Comment by shmerl
by Radio on Wed 25th May 2011 08:56 UTC in reply to "RE: Comment by shmerl"
Radio Member since:
2009-06-20

No kidding, in February it was running Atom, now it is on ARM. ;-)

ARM 8, even.

C'mon, I hope they'll at least put an OMAP4 in one of the devices.

Reply Score: 2

meecrap
by viton on Tue 24th May 2011 22:41 UTC
viton
Member since:
2005-08-09

I heard a horror stories of buggy video drivers for WeTab (at least a week ago). As expected from Intel.

Reply Score: 2

RE: meecrap
by No it isnt on Wed 25th May 2011 09:15 UTC in reply to "meecrap"
No it isnt Member since:
2005-11-14

So what? You can make buggy video drivers for any OS.

Reply Score: 3

RE[2]: meecrap
by Radio on Wed 25th May 2011 09:29 UTC in reply to "RE: meecrap"
Radio Member since:
2009-06-20

Unmanaged outsourcing and Windows monoculture mean that Intel is famous for its buggy linux drivers, especially since the Poulsbo fiasco.

Reply Score: 3

RE[3]: meecrap
by No it isnt on Wed 25th May 2011 10:32 UTC in reply to "RE[2]: meecrap"
No it isnt Member since:
2005-11-14

AFAIK, the other Intel drivers (i.e. all those for actual Intel hardware) are fairly fast and functional.

Reply Score: 2

RE[5]: meecrap
by No it isnt on Wed 25th May 2011 15:50 UTC in reply to "RE[4]: meecrap"
No it isnt Member since:
2005-11-14

Yeah, Sandy Bridge. It's still fairly new, and the drivers are still under heavy development. However, there's an update to one of those articles right here:
http://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=article&item=intel_snbsds_com...
The counterexample to your counter-example:

While last week we reported Intel Sandy Bridge graphics support is still troubling in Ubuntu 11.04 and also the support broke at the last minute in Linux 2.6.39, there's really good news to report this week from the Sandy Bridge Linux land. When using the very latest working Linux driver code, in many cases the OpenGL performance of this open-source driver stack is now faster than Intel's official Windows 7 driver.

Reply Score: 2

Comment by frood
by frood on Tue 24th May 2011 23:00 UTC
frood
Member since:
2005-07-06

This is great news. I can only hope they're as open as the N900 was/is. My dream is to see modern hardware that I can dual boot android/meego as well as run X applications. The N900 is great for this, for sure. But it's showing its age.

Reply Score: 2

no keyboard?
by Calipso on Wed 25th May 2011 01:12 UTC
Calipso
Member since:
2007-03-13

keyboard only for the developer version and not consumers? that sucks!

Reply Score: 2

HDMI out not new
by spiderman on Wed 25th May 2011 05:01 UTC
spiderman
Member since:
2008-10-23

The N900 also has HDMI out already, just like every Nokia smartphone.

Reply Score: 3

RE: HDMI out not new
by VZsolt on Wed 25th May 2011 05:58 UTC in reply to "HDMI out not new"
VZsolt Member since:
2008-10-31

No it doesn't, you're confusing it with the N8.

Reply Score: 3

RE[2]: HDMI out not new - yup
by jabbotts on Wed 25th May 2011 11:49 UTC in reply to "RE: HDMI out not new"
jabbotts Member since:
2007-09-06

N900 has RCA outs. Got the cable in my bag beside me.

Reply Score: 3

RE[3]: HDMI out not new - yup
by VZsolt on Wed 25th May 2011 12:43 UTC in reply to "RE[2]: HDMI out not new - yup"
VZsolt Member since:
2008-10-31

I hope you're just kidding saying that HDMI is the same as the ages old analog composite output. You can't be real, seriously.

Edited 2011-05-25 12:44 UTC

Reply Score: 1

jabbotts Member since:
2007-09-06

"Yup, it includes RCA not HDMI out" provided in response to the comment questioning HDMI out not the first comment claiming HDMI out. Otherwise, I'd have said "Nope, I only got RCA cables with mine", had I responded to the first comment directly.

But, I could have been more clear about that one.

Reply Score: 2

VZsolt Member since:
2008-10-31

As I can't edit my comment any longer, here goes: sorry about that. I get easily pissed in Nokia topics, especially when a defender (the OP) applies the Reality Distortion Field.

"Nokia does (too)" is just plain wrong IMO.

Edited 2011-05-25 13:40 UTC

Reply Score: 1

jabbotts Member since:
2007-09-06

No biggy. We all have our hot button topics.

Reply Score: 2

spiderman Member since:
2008-10-23

As I can't edit my comment any longer, here goes: sorry about that. I get easily pissed in Nokia topics, especially when a defender (the OP) applies the Reality Distortion Field.

"Nokia does (too)" is just plain wrong IMO.

Sorry, that was my bad. The N900 does not have HDMI out, but I am not a defender in a RDF. The N9 is also a Nokia phone so I was not trying to make a "Nokia does too" statement. I just made a mistake. The irony of it is that I own a N900 so I should know. I plug it on my TV but my TV does not have an HDMI port, that is why I can not plug my E7. My mind was confused.

Reply Score: 2

VZsolt Member since:
2008-10-31

The N8 (which I have with me) has an analog out in the headphone jack, just like old times. The HDMI is just a bonus.

Judging from the E7's specification page at http://www.forum.nokia.com/Devices/Device_specifications/E7-00/ (Local connectivity -> Nokia AV 3.5mm), the same cable should here too ;)

Reply Score: 1

RE[4]: HDMI out not new - yup
by Radio on Wed 25th May 2011 13:03 UTC in reply to "RE[3]: HDMI out not new - yup"
Radio Member since:
2009-06-20

VZsolt > Quite the opposite, he was backing up your point.

Too bad you ruined it by being aggressive.

Edited 2011-05-25 13:04 UTC

Reply Score: 2

RE[3]: HDMI out not new - yup
by WereCatf on Wed 25th May 2011 13:08 UTC in reply to "RE[2]: HDMI out not new - yup"
WereCatf Member since:
2006-02-15

N900 has RCA outs. Got the cable in my bag beside me.


When I got my N900 and perused the box contents this is exactly what hit me; nowadays HDMI is almost ubiquitous and it's only going to get more and more widespread, whereas RCA-out is almost dead. So, why stuff an outdated connection on a 'mobile computer' that's aimed specifically for advanced audience?

Reply Score: 2

jabbotts Member since:
2007-09-06

Well, it's three or more years old now so at the time RCA was still common. It may have been adequate for the video out quality the device is pushing.

Another thing that comes to mind is the likelyhood of patent and DRM madness involved with HDMI. While it should simply be a new connector and cable, it's been heavily leveraged by the media mafia to impose end to end DRM.

I'm not sure now if they've got some *nix native patent/drm crap out of the way or if it's simply going to push the lower quality video that non-DRM'd hdmi seems to allow.

For me, the more intersting thing is getting a full Linux distro that will support more of the same tools and toys I carry on all my bigger machines. Sadly, Maemo's Ruby implementation and closed drivers have already hosed a few of the things that attracted me to it so I've been hopeful about Meego being's promise of a full distro with more open hardware support.

(I don't get the tilt screen, if I'm holding the slider keyboard then I can tilt the entire device and setting it on a table at a viewing angle is easy enough without weakening the segment rails.)

If Nokia can deliver a true upgrade to the N900 with an OS that does what I want then they may get my money once more else I may be going back to a hand-top with full distro plus a cheap feature phone. Maybe Android if a developer device apears with a slide keyboard and running the stock core image with regular updates. I'd have to look at replacing all my existing and desired functions plus how much effort it takes to run it without storing all my data on Google's indexing servers.

Reply Score: 2

WereCatf Member since:
2006-02-15

Well, it's three or more years old now so at the time RCA was still common. It may have been adequate for the video out quality the device is pushing.


N900 came out on November 2009, so it's only about a year and a half old. There were plenty of devices with HDMI out. As such I just feel it was short-sighted from Nokia, especially since it would have really beefed up N900's multimedia capabilities.

For some reason Nokia always does this: on every single phone I've had they've always done one or another thing that's really short-sighted and should have been obvious if they had actually given the phones thorough testing. I am just afraid of how bad things will go when WP7 phones start rolling out.

Reply Score: 3

jabbotts Member since:
2007-09-06

The headphone jack location. You know, I read about that and it didn't really affect me until I started doing more with the device while listening to tunes.

For the life of me, I can't figure out why that was considered a good location and, having decided on location, why the headphone jack did not come with a 90 degree bend in the plug. When in my hand, I don't want to type around a three quarter inch or more obsctruction. When in my pocket, I don't want it floating around bending the cable at the end of that nearly inch long lever. A 90 degree plug header would have solved both issues resulting on less grief during use and less stress on the jack all around.

I sure won't clame all the design decisions are brilliant. Even now though, I'm not seeing an attractive hardware upgrade on the market. None of the Android developer devices have physical keyboards and the OS has it's own issues. As such, I may be living with the N900 for a while before my next device.

Reply Score: 2

WereCatf Member since:
2006-02-15

Even now though, I'm not seeing an attractive hardware upgrade on the market. None of the Android developer devices have physical keyboards and the OS has it's own issues. As such, I may be living with the N900 for a while before my next device.


You're not the only one, really. N900 is just too awesome even with its flaws, the other phones don't really feel like upgrades. I've always especially hated on-screen keyboards, they simply cannot be as comfortable to use as actual physical ones. An android phone _might_ suffice if it had an actual physical keyboard, but I am not aware of a single one that does.

Reply Score: 2

Neolander Member since:
2010-03-08

And sometimes they come up with genius "minor" features.

Some Nokia phones have transflective screens. This, along with glare-free screens, should be put on every single screen-equipped device that is meant to be used during summer. It just makes reading incredibly easier without having to turn screen brightness all the way up.

Edited 2011-05-25 19:52 UTC

Reply Score: 1

VZsolt Member since:
2008-10-31

I agree! It's a real shame that starting from the N78, Nokia started to cut costs through the screens - no more transflectivity, no more partial refresh screensavers, shit quality all around.

It's a real miracle that the CBD worked out okay.

Reply Score: 1

Obsolete
by collinm on Wed 25th May 2011 05:54 UTC
collinm
Member since:
2005-07-15

i hope if the phone will have a cortex a8 than the price will be a lot lower than other phone...

now, top is dual core cortex A9 with 1 gig of ram

Reply Score: 2

RE: Obsolete
by moondevil on Wed 25th May 2011 06:28 UTC in reply to "Obsolete"
moondevil Member since:
2005-07-08

And 1 hour battery life!

Reply Score: 1

RE[2]: Obsolete
by collinm on Wed 25th May 2011 07:35 UTC in reply to "RE: Obsolete"
collinm Member since:
2005-07-15

stop FUD, there are already some dual core phone and their autonomy is not 1 hours...

Reply Score: 2

RE[3]: Obsolete
by WereCatf on Wed 25th May 2011 08:47 UTC in reply to "RE[2]: Obsolete"
WereCatf Member since:
2006-02-15

stop FUD, there are already some dual core phone and their autonomy is not 1 hours...


Actually, dual-core phones have existed for years already. For example N96 sports 2xARM9 cores and it was released already back in 2008. So yeah, they're definitely not a new thing and even back then it managed to last the whole day without recharging.

Reply Score: 3

RE[4]: Obsolete
by moondevil on Wed 25th May 2011 10:23 UTC in reply to "RE[3]: Obsolete"
moondevil Member since:
2005-07-08

True, but they were not both available for user applications.

Reply Score: 2

RE[4]: Obsolete
by _txf_ on Wed 25th May 2011 10:43 UTC in reply to "RE[3]: Obsolete"
_txf_ Member since:
2008-03-17

Actually, dual-core phones have existed for years already. For example N96 sports 2xARM9 cores and it was released already back in 2008. So yeah, they're definitely not a new thing and even back then it managed to last the whole day without recharging.


I believe that one of the cores is dedicated to running the baseband.

Technically most dual core phones are triple core. Two application cores (running Android etc) and another arm 9 running baseband (running a real time microkernel).

Edited 2011-05-25 10:50 UTC

Reply Score: 2

RE[5]: Obsolete
by Neolander on Wed 25th May 2011 11:26 UTC in reply to "RE[4]: Obsolete"
Neolander Member since:
2010-03-08

I believe that one of the cores is dedicated to running the baseband.

Technically most dual core phones are triple core. Two application cores (running Android etc) and another arm 9 running baseband (running a real time microkernel).

Sorry to ask this, but exactly is the "baseband" ? Network signal demodulation/decoding and analysis ?

Reply Score: 1

RE[6]: Obsolete
by _txf_ on Wed 25th May 2011 13:29 UTC in reply to "RE[5]: Obsolete"
_txf_ Member since:
2008-03-17

Sorry to ask this, but exactly is the "baseband" ? Network signal demodulation/decoding and analysis ?


Don't be sorry.

Yes it does that (in a dsp) and holds the telephony stack (GSM etc) . Telephony functions are exposed to the OS as a service and the application (that is the main os) does not (and can not) govern them in order to maintain network access.

Reply Score: 2

RE[7]: Obsolete
by Neolander on Wed 25th May 2011 13:36 UTC in reply to "RE[6]: Obsolete"
Neolander Member since:
2010-03-08

So the baseband chip provides a sort of low-level cellular network handling API, which the phone OS then "calls" when it wants to make calls or data transfers ? And it makes sure that compromised phone OSs cannot be used to break the famous SIM cipher ? ;)

Edited 2011-05-25 13:38 UTC

Reply Score: 1

RE[5]: Obsolete
by WereCatf on Wed 25th May 2011 13:04 UTC in reply to "RE[4]: Obsolete"
WereCatf Member since:
2006-02-15

"Actually, dual-core phones have existed for years already. For example N96 sports 2xARM9 cores and it was released already back in 2008. So yeah, they're definitely not a new thing and even back then it managed to last the whole day without recharging.


I believe that one of the cores is dedicated to running the baseband.

Technically most dual core phones are triple core. Two application cores (running Android etc) and another arm 9 running baseband (running a real time microkernel).
"

No, N96 did indeed use both cores for applications. After all, why even market it as a dual-core phone if only one was in use? The problem -- as far as I understand it -- was that all applications ran in single-threaded mode, which obviously means that they'd still use only one of the cores at a time. And since both cores were clocked at only 264Mhz -- half of what competing phones did at the time or even less -- it made all the applications really sluggish and slow.

It was a really half-assed attempt at dual-core systems from Nokia and it would have been a bigger hit if they had actually redone their apps to use multi-threading and added support for that in the OS itself. I owned a N96 for a while and moved on to N900 later on, haven't regretted it even once :]

Reply Score: 3

RE: Obsolete
by JAlexoid on Wed 25th May 2011 08:44 UTC in reply to "Obsolete"
JAlexoid Member since:
2009-05-19

You must be joking! This is Nokia. They'll cut out everything, make it low power as it gets and charge you as much as everyone else.
For a dev device Cortex A8 is passé

Reply Score: 3

RE[2]: Obsolete
by Neolander on Wed 25th May 2011 09:54 UTC in reply to "RE: Obsolete"
Neolander Member since:
2010-03-08

The thing is, this worked with Symbian, because Symbian was designed for mobile and embedded devices in the first place. But since Nokia apparently now wants to go "the wow starts now", and get into Microsoft OSs on one side and Linux with lots of GPU-accelerated eye candy on another side, they'll also have to put very fast and power-hungry hardware before things work smoothly, whether they like it or not.

Edited 2011-05-25 09:55 UTC

Reply Score: 2

RE[3]: Obsolete
by moondevil on Wed 25th May 2011 10:28 UTC in reply to "RE[2]: Obsolete"
moondevil Member since:
2005-07-08

I agree.

I think the major issue with Symbian was that they never managed to bring the OS API up to date.

PIPS and QT were a nice addition but you still needed to get dirty with Symbian C++ and the horrible toolchain.

This was one of the reasons that many developers jumped to other platforms.

Back in the day I had hopped that when the ABI was broken, the API would be improved. Instead they introduced API level controls with certificates and DRM.

Reply Score: 2

RE[4]: Obsolete
by Moochman on Wed 25th May 2011 11:53 UTC in reply to "RE[3]: Obsolete"
Moochman Member since:
2005-07-06

The major issue for developers maybe. If Symbian had had a fighting chance of battling the iPhone, it wouldn't have mattered--apps would be developed for it one way or another. But sadly the UI in general--both the frameworks and the OS itself--simply couldn't compare to the iPhone's slickness, so the consumer demand wasn't there, so the developers ignored it....

Reply Score: 2

RE[5]: Obsolete
by spiderman on Wed 25th May 2011 12:09 UTC in reply to "RE[4]: Obsolete"
spiderman Member since:
2008-10-23

Are you saying that there is no consumer demand for Symbian? In which world?

Reply Score: 3

RE[6]: Obsolete
by moondevil on Wed 25th May 2011 14:44 UTC in reply to "RE[5]: Obsolete"
moondevil Member since:
2005-07-08

I guess he lives in the US.

Reply Score: 2

RE[7]: Obsolete
by Moochman on Wed 25th May 2011 15:53 UTC in reply to "RE[6]: Obsolete"
Moochman Member since:
2005-07-06

What I meant was that the iPhone killed Symbian. Yes, once upon a time the market share was there, but only "early adopters" of the whole smartphone concept bought Symbian devices. The iPhone was the device that brought the smartphone to the masses.

For the record, I live in Europe but used to live in the U.S. And I've owned a couple of Symbian devices.

Edited 2011-05-25 15:55 UTC

Reply Score: 2

RE[3]: Obsolete
by twitterfire on Wed 25th May 2011 13:02 UTC in reply to "RE[2]: Obsolete"
twitterfire Member since:
2008-09-11

But since Nokia apparently now wants to go "the wow starts now", and get into Microsoft OSs on one side and Linux with lots of GPU-accelerated eye candy on another side, they'll also have to put very fast and power-hungry hardware before things work smoothly, whether they like it or not.


They don't need hardware which is more power hungry than iPhone or the tons of Android phones out there. They need roughly the same hardware.

And I'm sure that Nokia will tailor the hardware and software to be as power savy as it gets. That's why I love my Nokia phones, beside making quality hardware that can be used for years, the battery lasts a lot comparing to other phone brands.

Reply Score: 2

RE[4]: Obsolete
by Neolander on Wed 25th May 2011 13:25 UTC in reply to "RE[3]: Obsolete"
Neolander Member since:
2010-03-08

"But since Nokia apparently now wants to go "the wow starts now", and get into Microsoft OSs on one side and Linux with lots of GPU-accelerated eye candy on another side, they'll also have to put very fast and power-hungry hardware before things work smoothly, whether they like it or not."

They don't need hardware which is more power hungry than iPhone or the tons of Android phones out there. They need roughly the same hardware.

This is the kind of hardware which I called very fast and power-hungry. As compared to usual Nokia hardware, I mean, which tends to be a bit underpowered for Symbian already, but also have crazily long battery lives as a compensation.

Eseries used to do their job nicely with only ~350MHz ARMv6 chips at hand, as an example. I don't think this will work anymore if Nokia shift focus on lots of smooth eye candy and want larger, higher-resolution screens.

And I'm sure that Nokia will tailor the hardware and software to be as power savy as it gets. That's why I love my Nokia phones, beside making quality hardware that can be used for years, the battery lasts a lot comparing to other phone brands.

Yeah ;) Past Nokia cells have been very good for me, too. I'm worried about the future, though. Everyone seems to go to heavy OSs that are close to desktop ones, and put faster hardware in phones to run them. As batteries rarely get more capacity (I don't know for how many years phones have dealt with a few Wh in their batteries, but I think it's safe to say that an order of magnitude improvement is not coming soon), and CPU efficiency is already very high in the mobile world and does not get much higher, I see low battery lives becoming a fatality, and mid-end phones becoming increasingly sluggish.

I think Samsung's decision to have the bada OS use two different kernels depending on which hardware it runs on is best in the long run. RTOSs are best for low- and mid-end phones with not so much processing power. Heavier kernels with much less snappy event handling, like Linux, should only be used on high-end devices (that have, like, 1GHz processors), where other priorities mandate their use.

Edited 2011-05-25 13:40 UTC

Reply Score: 1

RE[4]: Obsolete
by Radio on Wed 25th May 2011 13:53 UTC in reply to "RE[3]: Obsolete"
Radio Member since:
2009-06-20

And I'm sure that Nokia will tailor the hardware and software to be as power savy as it gets
I am afraid that is the very reason they waited so much to release a Meego phone (despite thousands of R&D engineers and millions of $ already spent) and went the WP7 route: as Meego is a bleeding-edge (btrfs, wayland), full linux stack, they have a hard time making it efficient.

Reply Score: 2

RE[4]: Obsolete
by JAlexoid on Wed 25th May 2011 23:20 UTC in reply to "RE[3]: Obsolete"
JAlexoid Member since:
2009-05-19

That battery efficiency comes due to a lighter OS on a lower spec hardware.

Reply Score: 2

jabbotts
Member since:
2007-09-06

Do they mean "first but available through retail channels in a few months"? Or, provided the hardware justifies the upgrade, will I be shopping a developer N9 on ebay?

Reply Score: 2

Apparently not being distributed at SF
by Moochman on Wed 25th May 2011 11:51 UTC
Moochman
Member since:
2005-07-06

Apparently they're not distributing it at the San Franscisco conference after all. And MeetMeego took the photos down too... oh well.

Reply Score: 2