Netbook innovator Asustek has announced that it will ship three models of its Eee PC with Ubuntu 10.10 preinstalled. Canonical announced Asus' decision to load the Eee PC 1001PXD, 1011PX and 1015PX with Ubuntu 10.10 from 1 June as one that will "make it one of the most user-friendly PCs on the market". Asus said that "many more" Eee PC models running Ubuntu will be available later this year. Linux fans will hope that in the three years since Asus started shipping Linux on its Eee PCs users will have realised that Linux is far more lightweight and suited to netbook computing than Windows.
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How about the year of the Linux Laptop ?
There is little evidence so far that tablets can be good at actually productive tasks, and laptops sound like the logical evolution of the desktop for persons who can deal with their smaller screen and don't change any hardware but RAM and mass storage devices.
Edited 2011-06-04 07:50 UTC
Member since:2010-05-14
Right now, Desktop Linux isn't very good at productive tasks either. Unless you're willing to use workarounds like Wine (which may not work) for legacy support or change over all your productivity software to the less popular Linux equivalents (if they exist).
Tablets will eventually get there because they are popular enough with the general public for developers to support those platforms. Industry standard applications (eg. Adobe Creative Suite, Pro Tools, Microsoft Office, AutoCad, Rosetta Stone) will be available for Android/iOS way before a Desktop Linux version is even considered.
Member since:2010-03-08
No, no, what I'm talking about is a fundamental incompatibility of current tablet hardware (relatively small finger-based touchscreen with no stylus support) with productive tasks.
Let's face it, Photoshop for iOS is nowhere near the capabilities of the desktop/laptop version. Question is, could it even be, while using such a low-powered interface ?
Of course, you are right that the tablet productivity problem might still be solved before the mythical Year of the Linux Desk... err... Laptop happens 
Edited 2011-06-04 14:10 UTC
Member since:2007-06-16
"Without stylus support"
Where have you been living for the last year ? I have an iPad 1 and I use a capacitive stylus made by Acase and it works great, I can write with it, etc. and keeps my screen nice and clean.
I also have an Android tablet for testing purposes (Android is not ready to play in the big show yet). I use resistive stylus with it made by Nintendo for the DNS. For resistive screens just about anything that won't scratch the surface will do, and again, it keeps my screen nice and clean.
Member since:2007-02-17
Linux is perfectly good at productive tasks.
There are over 100,000 applications which run on Linux. Something to suit almost everyone's needs, and certainly everything that one would reasonably want to do on a netbook.
To support your outrageos claim, your challenege is to name some task (suited to a netbook configured to run Linux) that Linux would not allow people to do. This will prove impossible for you o do.
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One does need to run the explicit programs Microsoft Office and Adobe Creative Suite in order to produce the output that those prgrams allow you to prodcue.
There is no output of those programs that one might reasonably want to attempt to produce on a netbook that cannot be produced on a Linux netbook.
Try again.
Edited 2011-06-05 23:24 UTC
Member since:2005-07-06
You forgot to add: "For me, Desktop Linux..."
For a home users (like many people around me), Linux/Firefox/LibreOffice is far better than the equivalent (Bootlegged Windows + Old Office + whatever IE that came with the non-upgrade-able due to WGA).
More-ever, the change between Office 2000/XP/2K3 and LibreOffice 3.x is far less radical compared to moving to the ribbon based Office 2K7/2K10.
Never the less, I do agree that using Linux on the desktop requires two things:
1. Availability of comparable software.
2. Time.
Switching OS, any OS takes time to master.
- Gilboa
Edited 2011-06-05 16:59 UTC
Member since:2010-05-14
Member since:2007-02-17
If they are using expensive professional programs that are only available for Windows, why are they buying a netbook?
Even then, getting away from netbooks, the traditional notions of "my type of work needs an industry standard application that can only be run on a Windows PC" are very questionable these days.
One favourite that used to be mentioned a lot in this context is AutoCAD.
Now, one can run Bricscad:
http://www.bricsys.com/en_INTL/bricscad/index.jsp
... even on Linux.
http://www.bricsys.com/en_INTL/bricscad/comparison.jsp
You are out of date.
Member since:2010-05-14
I suspect that most people buying Netbooks aren't doing so for productivity. It sounds like Netbooks in general aren't very good for productivity.
As for alternative applications:
What percentage of people use OpenOffice vs Microsoft Office? How many people are trained to use OpenOffice? How many employers are asking for people certified in OpenOffice? I would ask this same question for all productivity applications/suites available on Desktop Linux.
Member since:2007-02-17
Exactly. This thread, and my original challenge to you, is/was about netbooks. There is no reason at all (productivity included) why someone should not get at least as much utility out of their netbook with Linux as with Windows as the OS. Considering that netbooks are often purchased because the buyer is price concious, this means that the Linux option is actually far better for most netbook buyers.
This is simply prejudice on your part. Over a year ago a survey determined (using a decent method) that OpenOffice was installed on between 10% to 20% of machines (depending on geographic location), including business machines.
The OpenOffice/LibreOffice UI is closer to what most people are used to/trained for than the ribbon UI.
LibreOffice 3.4 is out now.
http://blog.documentfoundation.org/2011/06/03/the-document-foundati...
http://www.libreoffice.org/download/3-4-new-features-and-fixes/
LibreOffice is a fork of OpenOffice that has collected a huge number of developers and is steaming ahead where OpenOffice has stalled. LibreOffice has removed most of the OpenOffice legacy cruft, and is sleek and responsive as a result, which is important on a netbook. This now is the competition to MS Office.
I can think of no area, for the scope of use on a netbook, where LibreOffice 3.4 would not be as "productive" on a netbook as MS OFFice.
Considering that netbook purchasers are likely to be price sensitive, and that MS Office could potentially double the cost of one's netbook, and LibreOffice can do everything one would want to do on a netbook just as well, yet LibreOffice adds $0 to the cost of the machine, your attempt to name MS Office as the "must have netbook application only available for Windows" is floundering desperately.
Edited 2011-06-06 02:08 UTC
Member since:2007-02-17
I have already pointed out that BricsCAD is a perfectly viable alternative to AutoCAD, and that LibreOffice is a perfectly viable alternative to Microsoft Office.
However, CAD is a high-end application that no-one in their right mind would be running on a netbook. As for Pro Tools ... along with MS office, these are applications that one might actually have a use for on a netbook, providing the price was right. But Pro Tools? ... the software alone would cost as much again as the netbook.
Here is a capable solution, software included, for the price of a netbook hardware alone:
http://createdigitalmusic.com/2008/11/indamixx-laptop-is-first-pre-...
Edited 2011-06-06 02:40 UTC
Member since:2007-03-26
Well that depends entirely on what your job is.
Unless you're willing to use workarounds like Wine (which may not work) for legacy support or change over all your productivity software to the less popular Linux equivalents (if they exist).
Less popular != less productive
I use OpenOffice for everything and never ran into a hitch. In fact OO Calc is actually better than Excel for working with CSV files. OO Writer is better for working with PDFs
Professional suites are an extreme end of the spectrum used by a relatively small niche of people.
The reality is most people don't need Photoshop, AutoCad or Pro Tools. They don't even want that level of complexity - they'd sooner use something simpler and quicker to learn.
Those that do need professional suites will also need beefier systems than netbooks and the majority of laptops. So they wouldn't be buying these EeePCs anyway. Thus your examples are silly.
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Maverick is supported until April 2012 Lucid supported until April 2013. I tend to agree with your assessment of Lucid being a little buggy if I have a criticism of Ubuntu it would be that the LTS should be more conservative and stable, however, to me it looks a better option on the basis of supported life.
I'd rather have Natty - but I can well I can see the issues. I expect 11.10 to be a great release.
Member since:
2006-03-01
that 10.10 is what Asus may preinstall now because of stability and all, but it's not necessarily what users will have on their EEE's in a few months - thanks to automatic whole-distribution updates and the fact that it's not an LTS
Asus better hope that Ubuntu doesn't Karmic again on them - the kernel panic when Alt-F2'ing to disable the internal wireless was already almost inconceivable in a self respecting *non beta* relase ... but the official developers' position ("we wont' take time to merge the [already made and merged upstream] fix to this [long known] bug in our kernel, since it'd involve a freeze and the risk of missing the release deadline"... seriously , releasing day X was more important than releasing stable SW... WTH) was seriously unexcusable
moreover, most netbook buyers view them as normal laptops, just smaller, capable of running the same applications (which in turn are well beyond those for mere web browsing) and OTOH most applications a PC user has or needs are for windows
so the reality is sooner or later they'll need a windows license on their netbooks too, anyway
but last time i checked, a single OEM license for windows your local retailer could give you with a new pc or piece of HW was priced around 80 €, but thanks to the high volumes and economies of scales account for just 15-20 € on a laptop or netbook (in practice, the one between a 200-250 € Atom n450 with W7 and a ca. 300-350 € N550 dual core Atom - again with W7 - is more relevant a price differenze - with the advantages that result from already having 7)
and i'd like to see proof that Ubuntu is "far more lightweight" than windows, when it really feels sluggish on any configuration below a Pentium 4 - and no, please dont post any of those "Phoronix test suite" crap...
desktop is all about user interaction, look and feel and responsiveness: the correct method to evaluate them in an unambiguous form would be to simulate a series of use cases (eg "the user is now trying to interactively perspectively adjust and resize the picture in the GIMP by dragging the handle") in common *desktop* (meaning interactive GUI) applications (like, a word processor or an image editor) giving realistic data sets
and measure not only the time it takes to apply a gaussian blur, but the actual delay between a simulated user input and the effect on the gui - the higher this latency the more likely sluggishness using that application on that desktop
of course this means automating common applications injecting events and checking when the window, menu or toolbar has been updated, of course it is complex and may not be possible with current frameworks, toolkits and tools
but please, PLEASE, dont' think that a bunch of batch tasks is a realistic benchmark for anything regarding desktop interactivity, if anything they represent all that goes by the definition of non-interactive
Edited 2011-06-04 12:09 UTC
Member since:2008-12-26
so the reality is sooner or later they'll need a windows license on their netbooks too, anyway
You hear that a lot, but I don't believe it.
People that buy netbooks usually have another computer already that they use for "real work". If that real work involves windows, the computer will have windows.
Netbook is something that sits in the living room for casual browsing. Linux can do that job better than windows (mostly because it doesn't require virus scanners that kill the performance on low end hardware).
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[...]
Netbook is something that sits in the living room for casual browsing.
in fact, each and every person i know who considered getting a netbook, was going to use it as his/her *first* (yes, there exist professionals who have successfully managed to get their job done with just pen and paper till just yesterday) or anyway main, pc (a netbook, oh so compact, oh so portable, oh so cheap, would have been an ideal foray into IT for a doctor, lawyer or accountant with work to do, possibly on the go);
and either scrapped the netbook for a pentium T / i3 laptop after some months, or scrapped the idea and went for the laptop directly;
apparently, some types of people aren't so keen with having one machine for each task... like they have one office, one desk, one armchair, one photocopier, one dvd player, etc, they also see the PC as something of which to have just one, as versatile as possible
Edited 2011-06-05 22:52 UTC
Member since:2007-02-17
This may be so, but it doesn't say anything at all about a need to run Windows.
Linux is, if anything, more versatile than Windows, and for price sensitive consumers, such as those who might buy a netbook, Linux wins hands down.
Member since:2010-03-08
Well, from a maintenance and data locality point of view, it makes some sense.
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2011-06-06
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Although OpenOffice has stagnated somewhat in recent months, people might be interested to hear that the new kid on the block, LibreOffice, is forging ahead in leaps and bounds.
http://www.linuxjournal.com/content/open-source-office-software-sec...
http://people.gnome.org/~michael/blog/2011-05-09-libreoffice-fud.ht...
Much of the legacy "cruft" code from OpenOffice has been removed, and new features are now being added:
New in version 3.3
http://www.libreoffice.org/download/new-features-and-fixes/
New in version 3.4
http://www.libreoffice.org/download/3-4-new-features-and-fixes/
Edited 2011-06-07 04:01 UTC
Member since:
2011-03-08