Linked by lemur2 on Fri 3rd Jun 2011 22:24 UTC
Ubuntu, Kubuntu, Xubuntu Netbook innovator Asustek has announced that it will ship three models of its Eee PC with Ubuntu 10.10 preinstalled. Canonical announced Asus' decision to load the Eee PC 1001PXD, 1011PX and 1015PX with Ubuntu 10.10 from 1 June as one that will "make it one of the most user-friendly PCs on the market". Asus said that "many more" Eee PC models running Ubuntu will be available later this year. Linux fans will hope that in the three years since Asus started shipping Linux on its Eee PCs users will have realised that Linux is far more lightweight and suited to netbook computing than Windows.
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More hopefully
by bnolsen on Fri 3rd Jun 2011 23:52 UTC
bnolsen
Member since:
2006-01-06

I'd really like to see them release a linux 12" with usb3, hdmi and gigabit. I would seriously consider buying one of those to replace my current netbooks.

Reply Score: 2

Alfman
Member since:
2011-01-28

Setting their sites a little low this time?

:)

Reply Score: 1

Year of the Linux Desktop..
by pepper on Sat 4th Jun 2011 01:38 UTC
pepper
Member since:
2007-09-18

...will probably never come, now that the Desktop dies.

But maybe one day Windows will be remembered as the arcane OS that ran on these huge machines everyone had at home :-)

Reply Score: 3

RE: Year of the Linux Desktop..
by Neolander on Sat 4th Jun 2011 07:49 UTC in reply to "Year of the Linux Desktop.."
Neolander Member since:
2010-03-08

How about the year of the Linux Laptop ?

There is little evidence so far that tablets can be good at actually productive tasks, and laptops sound like the logical evolution of the desktop for persons who can deal with their smaller screen and don't change any hardware but RAM and mass storage devices.

Edited 2011-06-04 07:50 UTC

Reply Score: 2

RichterKuato Member since:
2010-05-14

Right now, Desktop Linux isn't very good at productive tasks either. Unless you're willing to use workarounds like Wine (which may not work) for legacy support or change over all your productivity software to the less popular Linux equivalents (if they exist).

Tablets will eventually get there because they are popular enough with the general public for developers to support those platforms. Industry standard applications (eg. Adobe Creative Suite, Pro Tools, Microsoft Office, AutoCad, Rosetta Stone) will be available for Android/iOS way before a Desktop Linux version is even considered.

Reply Score: 2

Neolander Member since:
2010-03-08

No, no, what I'm talking about is a fundamental incompatibility of current tablet hardware (relatively small finger-based touchscreen with no stylus support) with productive tasks.

Let's face it, Photoshop for iOS is nowhere near the capabilities of the desktop/laptop version. Question is, could it even be, while using such a low-powered interface ?

Of course, you are right that the tablet productivity problem might still be solved before the mythical Year of the Linux Desk... err... Laptop happens ;)

Edited 2011-06-04 14:10 UTC

Reply Score: 0

ecruz Member since:
2007-06-16

"Without stylus support"
Where have you been living for the last year ? I have an iPad 1 and I use a capacitive stylus made by Acase and it works great, I can write with it, etc. and keeps my screen nice and clean.
I also have an Android tablet for testing purposes (Android is not ready to play in the big show yet). I use resistive stylus with it made by Nintendo for the DNS. For resistive screens just about anything that won't scratch the surface will do, and again, it keeps my screen nice and clean.

Reply Score: 4

lemur2 Member since:
2007-02-17

Right now, Desktop Linux isn't very good at productive tasks either. Unless you're willing to use workarounds like Wine (which may not work) for legacy support or change over all your productivity software to the less popular Linux equivalents (if they exist).


Linux is perfectly good at productive tasks.

There are over 100,000 applications which run on Linux. Something to suit almost everyone's needs, and certainly everything that one would reasonably want to do on a netbook.

To support your outrageos claim, your challenege is to name some task (suited to a netbook configured to run Linux) that Linux would not allow people to do. This will prove impossible for you o do.

Reply Score: 4

RichterKuato Member since:
2010-05-14

I've never used a Netbook but assuming it can run Microsoft Office and Adobe Creative Suite there's your answer. If not then, well, Netbooks aren't very productive either are they?

Reply Score: 2

lemur2 Member since:
2007-02-17

I've never used a Netbook but assuming it can run Microsoft Office and Adobe Creative Suite there's your answer. If not then, well, Netbooks aren't very productive either are they?


One does need to run the explicit programs Microsoft Office and Adobe Creative Suite in order to produce the output that those prgrams allow you to prodcue.

There is no output of those programs that one might reasonably want to attempt to produce on a netbook that cannot be produced on a Linux netbook.

Try again.

Edited 2011-06-05 23:24 UTC

Reply Score: 3

gilboa Member since:
2005-07-06

Right now, Desktop Linux isn't very good at productive tasks either. Unless you're willing to use workarounds like Wine (which may not work) for legacy support or change over all your productivity software to the less popular Linux equivalents (if they exist).


You forgot to add: "For me, Desktop Linux..."
For a home users (like many people around me), Linux/Firefox/LibreOffice is far better than the equivalent (Bootlegged Windows + Old Office + whatever IE that came with the non-upgrade-able due to WGA).
More-ever, the change between Office 2000/XP/2K3 and LibreOffice 3.x is far less radical compared to moving to the ribbon based Office 2K7/2K10.

Never the less, I do agree that using Linux on the desktop requires two things:
1. Availability of comparable software.
2. Time.

Switching OS, any OS takes time to master.

- Gilboa

Edited 2011-06-05 16:59 UTC

Reply Score: 2

RichterKuato Member since:
2010-05-14

I myself don't use my computer for productive tasks. I just know that most semi/professional users need industry standard applications to do their jobs. That's is, those users that actually need a PC.

Reply Score: 2

lemur2 Member since:
2007-02-17

I myself don't use my computer for productive tasks. I just know that most semi/professional users need industry standard applications to do their jobs. That's is, those users that actually need a PC.


If they are using expensive professional programs that are only available for Windows, why are they buying a netbook?

Even then, getting away from netbooks, the traditional notions of "my type of work needs an industry standard application that can only be run on a Windows PC" are very questionable these days.

One favourite that used to be mentioned a lot in this context is AutoCAD.

Now, one can run Bricscad:
http://www.bricsys.com/en_INTL/bricscad/index.jsp

... even on Linux.
http://www.bricsys.com/en_INTL/bricscad/comparison.jsp

You are out of date.

Reply Score: 2

RichterKuato Member since:
2010-05-14

I suspect that most people buying Netbooks aren't doing so for productivity. It sounds like Netbooks in general aren't very good for productivity.

As for alternative applications:
What percentage of people use OpenOffice vs Microsoft Office? How many people are trained to use OpenOffice? How many employers are asking for people certified in OpenOffice? I would ask this same question for all productivity applications/suites available on Desktop Linux.

Reply Score: 2

lemur2 Member since:
2007-02-17

I suspect that most people buying Netbooks aren't doing so for productivity. It sounds like Netbooks in general aren't very good for productivity.


Exactly. This thread, and my original challenge to you, is/was about netbooks. There is no reason at all (productivity included) why someone should not get at least as much utility out of their netbook with Linux as with Windows as the OS. Considering that netbooks are often purchased because the buyer is price concious, this means that the Linux option is actually far better for most netbook buyers.

As for alternative applications: What percentage of people use OpenOffice vs Microsoft Office? How many people are trained to use OpenOffice? How many employers are asking for people certified in OpenOffice? I would ask this same question for all productivity applications/suites available on Desktop Linux.


This is simply prejudice on your part. Over a year ago a survey determined (using a decent method) that OpenOffice was installed on between 10% to 20% of machines (depending on geographic location), including business machines.

The OpenOffice/LibreOffice UI is closer to what most people are used to/trained for than the ribbon UI.

LibreOffice 3.4 is out now.

http://blog.documentfoundation.org/2011/06/03/the-document-foundati...
http://www.libreoffice.org/download/3-4-new-features-and-fixes/

LibreOffice is a fork of OpenOffice that has collected a huge number of developers and is steaming ahead where OpenOffice has stalled. LibreOffice has removed most of the OpenOffice legacy cruft, and is sleek and responsive as a result, which is important on a netbook. This now is the competition to MS Office.

I can think of no area, for the scope of use on a netbook, where LibreOffice 3.4 would not be as "productive" on a netbook as MS OFFice.

Considering that netbook purchasers are likely to be price sensitive, and that MS Office could potentially double the cost of one's netbook, and LibreOffice can do everything one would want to do on a netbook just as well, yet LibreOffice adds $0 to the cost of the machine, your attempt to name MS Office as the "must have netbook application only available for Windows" is floundering desperately.

Edited 2011-06-06 02:08 UTC

Reply Score: 2

lemur2 Member since:
2007-02-17

Right now, Desktop Linux isn't very good at productive tasks either. Unless you're willing to use workarounds like Wine (which may not work) for legacy support or change over all your productivity software to the less popular Linux equivalents (if they exist). Tablets will eventually get there because they are popular enough with the general public for developers to support those platforms. Industry standard applications (eg. Adobe Creative Suite, Pro Tools, Microsoft Office, AutoCad, Rosetta Stone) will be available for Android/iOS way before a Desktop Linux version is even considered.


I have already pointed out that BricsCAD is a perfectly viable alternative to AutoCAD, and that LibreOffice is a perfectly viable alternative to Microsoft Office.

However, CAD is a high-end application that no-one in their right mind would be running on a netbook. As for Pro Tools ... along with MS office, these are applications that one might actually have a use for on a netbook, providing the price was right. But Pro Tools? ... the software alone would cost as much again as the netbook.

Here is a capable solution, software included, for the price of a netbook hardware alone:
http://createdigitalmusic.com/2008/11/indamixx-laptop-is-first-pre-...

Edited 2011-06-06 02:40 UTC

Reply Score: 2

Laurence Member since:
2007-03-26

Right now, Desktop Linux isn't very good at productive tasks either.

Well that depends entirely on what your job is.


Unless you're willing to use workarounds like Wine (which may not work) for legacy support or change over all your productivity software to the less popular Linux equivalents (if they exist).

Less popular != less productive

I use OpenOffice for everything and never ran into a hitch. In fact OO Calc is actually better than Excel for working with CSV files. OO Writer is better for working with PDFs

Industry standard applications (eg. Adobe Creative Suite, Pro Tools, Microsoft Office, AutoCad, Rosetta Stone) will be available for Android/iOS way before a Desktop Linux version is even considered.

Professional suites are an extreme end of the spectrum used by a relatively small niche of people.

The reality is most people don't need Photoshop, AutoCad or Pro Tools. They don't even want that level of complexity - they'd sooner use something simpler and quicker to learn.
Those that do need professional suites will also need beefier systems than netbooks and the majority of laptops. So they wouldn't be buying these EeePCs anyway. Thus your examples are silly.

Reply Score: 2

Maverick Meerkat
by Gone fishing on Sat 4th Jun 2011 08:43 UTC
Gone fishing
Member since:
2006-02-22

Maverick seems an odd choice to me.

Why not pick 10.04 an LTS or 11.04 the latest release? Personally I like 11.04 and the Unity desktop it is also very suited to small screens

Reply Score: 2

RE: Maverick Meerkat
by ThomasFuhringer on Sat 4th Jun 2011 09:27 UTC in reply to "Maverick Meerkat"
ThomasFuhringer Member since:
2007-01-25

Shouldn't you be able to simply run an upgrade to the current version?

Reply Score: 1

RE: Maverick Meerkat
by vivainio on Sat 4th Jun 2011 09:34 UTC in reply to "Maverick Meerkat"
vivainio Member since:
2008-12-26

Maverick is probably the version they had time to QA.

Lucid is old and somewhat buggy compared to Maverick; Natty is new and probably a bit dangerous considering the all new Unity thing (which I enjoy quite a bit btw).

Maverick is the right call.

Reply Score: 3

RE[2]: Maverick Meerkat
by Gone fishing on Sat 4th Jun 2011 10:06 UTC in reply to "RE: Maverick Meerkat"
Gone fishing Member since:
2006-02-22

Maverick is supported until April 2012 Lucid supported until April 2013. I tend to agree with your assessment of Lucid being a little buggy if I have a criticism of Ubuntu it would be that the LTS should be more conservative and stable, however, to me it looks a better option on the basis of supported life.

I'd rather have Natty - but I can well I can see the issues. I expect 11.10 to be a great release.

Reply Score: 2

the problem is ...
by silix on Sat 4th Jun 2011 11:49 UTC
silix
Member since:
2006-03-01

that 10.10 is what Asus may preinstall now because of stability and all, but it's not necessarily what users will have on their EEE's in a few months - thanks to automatic whole-distribution updates and the fact that it's not an LTS
Asus better hope that Ubuntu doesn't Karmic again on them - the kernel panic when Alt-F2'ing to disable the internal wireless was already almost inconceivable in a self respecting *non beta* relase ... but the official developers' position ("we wont' take time to merge the [already made and merged upstream] fix to this [long known] bug in our kernel, since it'd involve a freeze and the risk of missing the release deadline"... seriously , releasing day X was more important than releasing stable SW... WTH) was seriously unexcusable

moreover, most netbook buyers view them as normal laptops, just smaller, capable of running the same applications (which in turn are well beyond those for mere web browsing) and OTOH most applications a PC user has or needs are for windows
so the reality is sooner or later they'll need a windows license on their netbooks too, anyway
but last time i checked, a single OEM license for windows your local retailer could give you with a new pc or piece of HW was priced around 80 €, but thanks to the high volumes and economies of scales account for just 15-20 € on a laptop or netbook (in practice, the one between a 200-250 € Atom n450 with W7 and a ca. 300-350 € N550 dual core Atom - again with W7 - is more relevant a price differenze - with the advantages that result from already having 7)

and i'd like to see proof that Ubuntu is "far more lightweight" than windows, when it really feels sluggish on any configuration below a Pentium 4 - and no, please dont post any of those "Phoronix test suite" crap...
desktop is all about user interaction, look and feel and responsiveness: the correct method to evaluate them in an unambiguous form would be to simulate a series of use cases (eg "the user is now trying to interactively perspectively adjust and resize the picture in the GIMP by dragging the handle") in common *desktop* (meaning interactive GUI) applications (like, a word processor or an image editor) giving realistic data sets
and measure not only the time it takes to apply a gaussian blur, but the actual delay between a simulated user input and the effect on the gui - the higher this latency the more likely sluggishness using that application on that desktop
of course this means automating common applications injecting events and checking when the window, menu or toolbar has been updated, of course it is complex and may not be possible with current frameworks, toolkits and tools
but please, PLEASE, dont' think that a bunch of batch tasks is a realistic benchmark for anything regarding desktop interactivity, if anything they represent all that goes by the definition of non-interactive

Edited 2011-06-04 12:09 UTC

Reply Score: 6

RE: the problem is ...
by vivainio on Sat 4th Jun 2011 15:03 UTC in reply to "the problem is ..."
vivainio Member since:
2008-12-26

moreover, most netbook buyers view them as normal laptops, just smaller, capable of running the same applications (which in turn are well beyond those for mere web browsing) and OTOH most applications a PC user has or needs are for windows
so the reality is sooner or later they'll need a windows license on their netbooks too, anyway


You hear that a lot, but I don't believe it.

People that buy netbooks usually have another computer already that they use for "real work". If that real work involves windows, the computer will have windows.

Netbook is something that sits in the living room for casual browsing. Linux can do that job better than windows (mostly because it doesn't require virus scanners that kill the performance on low end hardware).

Reply Score: 4

RE[2]: the problem is ...
by Neolander on Sat 4th Jun 2011 16:02 UTC in reply to "RE: the problem is ..."
Neolander Member since:
2010-03-08

Hmmm, where I live I also see people use them at work, typically as a Powerpoint-projector interface.

Reply Score: 1

RE[3]: the problem is ...
by vivainio on Sat 4th Jun 2011 19:20 UTC in reply to "RE[2]: the problem is ..."
vivainio Member since:
2008-12-26

Hmmm, where I live I also see people use them at work, typically as a Powerpoint-projector interface.


For work purposes, people can (and do) get non-cheap small devices as well. These asus/acer things are mostly targeted at consumers.

Reply Score: 3

RE[2]: the problem is ...
by silix on Sun 5th Jun 2011 22:50 UTC in reply to "RE: the problem is ..."
silix Member since:
2006-03-01

People that buy netbooks usually have another computer already that they use for "real work".
[...]
Netbook is something that sits in the living room for casual browsing.
not always.
in fact, each and every person i know who considered getting a netbook, was going to use it as his/her *first* (yes, there exist professionals who have successfully managed to get their job done with just pen and paper till just yesterday) or anyway main, pc (a netbook, oh so compact, oh so portable, oh so cheap, would have been an ideal foray into IT for a doctor, lawyer or accountant with work to do, possibly on the go);
and either scrapped the netbook for a pentium T / i3 laptop after some months, or scrapped the idea and went for the laptop directly;
apparently, some types of people aren't so keen with having one machine for each task... like they have one office, one desk, one armchair, one photocopier, one dvd player, etc, they also see the PC as something of which to have just one, as versatile as possible

Edited 2011-06-05 22:52 UTC

Reply Score: 2

RE[3]: the problem is ...
by lemur2 on Mon 6th Jun 2011 02:50 UTC in reply to "RE[2]: the problem is ..."
lemur2 Member since:
2007-02-17

some types of people aren't so keen with having one machine for each task... like they have one office, one desk, one armchair, one photocopier, one dvd player, etc, they also see the PC as something of which to have just one, as versatile as possible


This may be so, but it doesn't say anything at all about a need to run Windows.

Linux is, if anything, more versatile than Windows, and for price sensitive consumers, such as those who might buy a netbook, Linux wins hands down.

Reply Score: 2

RE[3]: the problem is ...
by Neolander on Mon 6th Jun 2011 05:56 UTC in reply to "RE[2]: the problem is ..."
Neolander Member since:
2010-03-08

apparently, some types of people aren't so keen with having one machine for each task... like they have one office, one desk, one armchair, one photocopier, one dvd player, etc, they also see the PC as something of which to have just one, as versatile as possible

Well, from a maintenance and data locality point of view, it makes some sense.

Reply Score: 1

been doing this for years
by julianb on Mon 6th Jun 2011 21:13 UTC
julianb
Member since:
2011-06-06

I've been using Asus EEEpc's with Ubuntu for 2 years now. it's a great match (on the whole, Asus seems to have consistently chosen linux-friendly hardware for their wireless cards, graphics cards, etc.

Reply Score: 1

For the naysayers ...
by lemur2 on Tue 7th Jun 2011 03:42 UTC
lemur2
Member since:
2007-02-17

Although OpenOffice has stagnated somewhat in recent months, people might be interested to hear that the new kid on the block, LibreOffice, is forging ahead in leaps and bounds.

http://www.linuxjournal.com/content/open-source-office-software-sec...

http://people.gnome.org/~michael/blog/2011-05-09-libreoffice-fud.ht...

Much of the legacy "cruft" code from OpenOffice has been removed, and new features are now being added:

New in version 3.3
http://www.libreoffice.org/download/new-features-and-fixes/

New in version 3.4
http://www.libreoffice.org/download/3-4-new-features-and-fixes/

Edited 2011-06-07 04:01 UTC

Reply Score: 2

where to buy?
by senshikaze on Tue 7th Jun 2011 14:49 UTC
senshikaze
Member since:
2011-03-08

I still can't find anywhere to actually buy one of these. The article says June 1, 2011, but where can you actually get one?

Reply Score: 1