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You make a good point but 1.2? Guess again. It is 4.
You're right. I forgot how big OS X is. If it's as big as Snow Leopard, then it's 4.7+ GB. Snow Leopard wouldn't even fit on a single layer DVD IIRC. It required a double layer one.
There's no PPC code in Lion, nadda. Plus they've dropped a number of old stuff like iSync. They must have optimised heavily to get it into 4GB, knowing that it's download-only.
Well, there you go, they did optimise. They shaved off 700MB. It's not 4GB for nothing. Drivers will take up a lot of space. The voice file is 700MB alone (I think Apple have moved these to download-on-demand) -- and remember Lion includes Lion server, so you get the calDav / Wiki / XSan and administration tools.
From what I understood from the keynote, the $50 Lion Server would include xsan...
What they could perhaps do is allow to make bootable pen drives, or turn Time Machine backups into bootable restore disks.
That would make more sense, given that some macs don't have optical drives included anymore.
Indeed, that could be very good news if confirmed, though only for the happy fews who know what the internal structure of a .app is and how to "burn" a disk image to an USB pen drive on OSX.
It's 4GB. Apple seem quite staunch on this. I could imagine two solutions:
1. Go to an Apple store and they will install it for you
2. Go to an Apple store and they will give you a USB-stick with Lion on it
Also Thom I think you didn't mention that when you buy Lion, it's free for any other compatible Macs you own.
The Windows / Office value proposition gets more and more ridiculous every day.
My country, Sweden, doesn't have a single Apple Store... Edited 2011-06-06 20:07 UTC
Mac users tend to forget that the Mac presence outside USA is meaningless.
Apple stores sure, but do they sell Mac's?
We have a few Apple stores(*) in Denmark, they sell iOS products, but mainly brightly colored accessories for iOS products. OS X products seems to be mainly sold via non-Apple stores, like large electronic chains and the limited time offers in supermarkets.
Edit(*): Probably not Apple-owned Apple stores, just authorized vendors only selling Apple-related products. Edited 2011-06-07 10:34 UTC
You've named 10 countries with Apple Stores. If you live in one of those 10 countries (say Germany), unless you live in Hamburg, Munchen, Berlin or Frankfurt, there's not much you can do. The online store presence is nonexistent in most of the other countries. In Romania, you get a list of the products, and links to some service providers. There's no online Apple Store. There's an App Store (no iTunes and no iBook).
In Romania, out of my closest 10 friends, 9 use Macs. We might be an exception, but that is because the hardware is usually 6 months late and 30% more expensive than in the rest of Europe which makes it almost 60% more expensive than in the States.
I don't find Apple products to be expensive in the States, but in Romania they are exaggerated. In the states, the top model MBA is $1799 on the Apple website. In Romania it's $2950. That's a 64% premium. And people wonder why I buy the hardware from the US.
In how many cities of those countries?
Not even resellers? We don't have any Apple Stores here in Hungary either, but there are quite a few authorized Apple resellers selling all kinds of stuff.
Where did you get your Mac from anyway?
...And 4GB download will empty your pockets. Right?
Over here in The Netherlands we have a number of Apple premium resellers. Their shops even mimic Apple stores.
Also a number of bigger stores have Apple sections, including Apple shirt wearing dedicated sales people/Apple experts.
And if you're lazy you can order stuff on-line and they'll bring it to your home.
That's because the Swedes are smart - I mean, they do make Volvos...
Only after buying it from the Dutch
I have a friend in Sweden.
Over there he has bought an iPhone 3G, iPhone 4, iPad, iPad 2 and a MacBook Air. At home he has 100 Mb/s fiber Internet connectivity.
He lives in a village in the middle of the country, not in the south where the bigger cities are.
The Apple stores in Sweden are sold by Ikea, you have to build them by yourself.
Ok, I go out.
I'm not entirely sure, with apple you pay more upfront for hardware, granted in some cases you don't pay more, but still, apple makes the OS to sell hardware, microsoft is a software house.
The only reason you guys are griping about the DL only status of 10.7 is you wont be able to pirate it off of USENET and burn as many times as you want. LMAO!
It's not like there are hoards of people living in those parts of the world that have a 64 bit iMac in their hut.
Twitter integration, photostream, 1 touch camera...
Another bland WWDC. Still no talk about resolution independence. No revamped interface for iOS.
Yeah I'm bummed. I was hoping Apple would offer a subscription music service. Guess I'm sticking with MOG. Edited 2011-06-06 20:49 UTC
Not a bad announcement overall.
New notification system, good. Like Thom said, copying good features is a good thing! When companies refuse to copy good features you end up with Windows' stacked app switcher instead of something useful like Expose.
iCloud. Wicked. I think this is the proper solution to the documents problem on iOS. The easiest solution would have been to make a Documents folder that apps can save to, but this is better. I am very careful with my phone, but it is inherently a fragile device and prone to getting lost. The correct solution is continuous synching to the cloud, not storing things only on the device. This will remove a lot of hacky solutions that various apps have implemented to transfer files to and from their app. Best part of today's announcement by far.
New OSX.. Looks like a decent incremental upgrade, for an incremental upgrade price. No complaints.
iOS 5. Doesn't go far enough. Some nice changes for sure, but I was really hoping for some more significant changes to the home screen. I don't care about widgets and think they're mostly a useless CPU/memory/battery hog, but what I really want is a quick toggle for wifi/bluetooth. Going into the settings each time is a pain (white whine there). I'm hoping something like this is actually in there, but just wasn't highlighted today.
Twitter integration - I have no use for it. And why twitter? Why not make it social media integration so I can link it to my facebook?? This smells like some sort of exclusive deal with twitter and it sucks. Edited 2011-06-06 19:55 UTC
I am sure there is tons of fodder for the haters in that conference.
Lots of cool polish. Nice to see some good ideas from other platforms. I think I am looking forward to all the updates, but the only one I was really wanting, and felt missing was iMessage. I really hope they make the ICD for this open, or at least licensable. I was hoping of iOS like sleep though. Otherwise it is just BBM, stuck on a single platform.
As for OS size: Who is installing OS X on such constrained hardware? Not many devices would run 10. smoothly, that have a HDD less than 40GB.
As for download only: I just spend 4 months living in a place with dial-up-only, so I feel for these people. If I was still in that situation, I would buy the $29 update, but not download it, then get a friend to burn me a copy off TPB. But I suppose if you had _no_ internet, I'd likely feel justified skipping the mac store purch part of my plan...
The twitter integration is probably due to Zuckerberg not being a huge iPhone/Apple fan who doesn't really hide that fact... And what else is there to sync with? Anyway - you can link your twitter with fb so you synchronize your spam if that's what you want :p
Regarding your iOS criticism, it's true that it's more evolutionary than revolutionary. Not too impressed, most of the time it was a "finally" feeling I got, except for 2 moments: 1) when I saw location based reminders, which is pretty cool, and 2) when they presented iMessage (because it seems to be a big "up yours" to the carriers) All in all - it's just a major polish of the OS, without breaking their UI. Nothing really disappointing, but nothing groundbreaking, except for the iCloud integration.
The Wifi/Bluetooth on/off switches is something you'll never see on any Apple device. It's against the "it just works" philosophy. It's technical, and 'users' don't have to know about this stuff. Not wanting these toggle switches forces Apple into looking for more power efficient technologies and better batteries and forces them to innovate. Currently I can easily get through the day with my iPhone 4, WiFi and BT on all the time, and my BT connected to my carkit for 1 to 2 hours a day, heavy phone useage, playing music in my car all the time (not charging since my iPod connector kit is too old - on the contrary, it leaves my phone's display on all the time). I usually have about 30 to 40% battery left when plugging it in at night. My colleague with his Samsung Galaxy S II can only dream of something like this. Without his toggle switches, he doesn't make it through the day. It is true that with them, and manually managing them carefully he squeezes out 2 days, but that's not worth the hassle for me.
Busy June: after Apple, Microsoft & HP, you can also add Nokia Connection in Singapore by the end of the month, which should be rich in revelations about incoming WP7 & MeeGo devices.
As I predicted, and was shot down by Eddyspeeder - no mention of 10.7.
It is called 10.7:
And Windows 7 is also NT 6.x. Your point? The product marketing is *not* mentioning 10.7 *anywhere* - that is my point.
Im iClean, and absolutely loving it!
that said, I think Id prefer to use OS X than Windows..
well you know.. if I really really had no other choice.
Removing iTunes dependency was a good move. Is apple softening up? :p
I'm a bit worried and morbidly curious what sort of masochistic rituals an Apple faithful has to subject themselves to in the shower to become "iClean".
1/Congratulations to Apple for recognizing that they are not alone in the mobile space and learning to steal good ideas. Innovation is a cooperative process.
2/Congratulations for helping at the task of removing the abomination that desktop iTunes is from the face of the Earth, even though insensitive jerks like myself won't be fully satisfied until things like the App Store monopoly get out too.
3/Congratulations for trying again to provide updates for two years old devices, since apparently that's an achievement in the mobile space. Hope for 3GS owner that Apple has learned from its past mistakes.
One has to give credit where it's due.
Otherwise... Well, if a 4GB Lion image is optimized for download, I hope for Mac users that they will all have gained a fast optical internet connection by the time next version of OSX comes out (if it ever comes out). This is going to be quite painful, especially for the poor souls who rely on slow and monthly capped mobile networks... Guess this is a way for Apple to have people more regularly buy new Mac hardware when they don't need to. Edited 2011-06-06 22:11 UTC
Where I'm at the fasted DSL/Cable connection is 1Mbps ($100 per month). My 3G connection is 3.6Mbps with real life speeds of about 2Mbps. So yes it sucks to say I'll probably be using my 3G connection to download Lion at a cost of $15 per GB or suffer days downloading it.
How about refusing to update until Apple budges on this? I mean, there aren't really any features that are absolutely necessary to have, particularly from day 1.
If enough people refuse to update, then the OSX platform will start to suffer enough fragmentation for Apple to want to do something to improve the uptake.
People are going to have to realize that the situation is going to get worst rather than better. File sizes are getting bigger, not smaller. Hell, Xcode itself is a hefty download. Refusing to update is not going to hurt Apple one bit. They'd rather you buy a new Mac with it preinstalled anyway. Fragmentation is only going to hurt you in the end. At 29.99 I doubt most people wouldn't download it, and as more developers start to use the included apis older versions of OSX get will see less support.
Windows 7 for example is a pretty big file download from eopen. Its about 3.75 GBs it think. OSX is a bit bigger coming in at 4GB. Most likely due to drivers, WIn7 uses Windows update to search for drivers. Either way, I don't 4GB is all that bad. It would be nice if Apple let put it on a USB stick but then they wouldn't be able to control people copying it all over the place.
1. 4 gigs at 1Mbps is only about 9 hours, not days.
2. You'd rather spend 4.5 hours and $60 to download over the cell network than have it just download overnight for free? That makes no sense whatsoever.
You are talking to someone who owns an Apple - its a whole different value system where paying extra for "privlege" is an accepted norm. Its the same mentality that goes into clicking the "overnight shipping" or "2nd day delivery" options for $40 - $80 more for online purchases.
Not saying its wrong, its just different. Its a mindset that I don't understand either, but believe me those with that mindset don't really understand people you and I either.
Why wouldn't I download the IOS update over 3g?
There are parts of the world where 3g networks aren't hobbled like the US.
I get 15Gb/month for £15.00 here in the UK so 4Gb is easily within my allowance. I've already downloaded the Fedora 15 X64 DVD Iso this month.
What is the rate for expanding that data cap?
While by simple math 4gb easily fits into 15gb, however you still have to look at the whole months allowance.
You download 4gb of Apple operating system data.
11gb for the rest of the month.
What does the break down for this look like in terms of what you can do?
1 Netflix streaming movie ~ 3gb
1 Linux dvd iso ~ 4bg
1 Standard P2P Movie ~ 2-3gb
So in the same month that iOS is downloaded, that allows for 3 movies the whole month, or 2 movies and a linux iso to try out, etc.
Its easy to say its doable but any way its presented, the iOS download is eating nearly 30% of your entire monthly allotment.
Does anyone else find the news of the new Android-esque (mentioned by Thom to be Touchwiz-esque) more than a bit amusing in light of Apple's recent lawsuit against Samsung? Seems like the pot should think before calling the kettle black.
Yep and it will be even more amusing if this patent is granted: http://www.google.com/patents?id=r9DqAAAAEBAJ
It is still "pending" but filed Jan '09.
Will Google counter sue?
The only thing Apple has innovated in iOS5 is the marketing of other peoples ideas as your own.
http://like-a-boss.org/2011/06/06/ios5-innovating-like-a-boss/ Edited 2011-06-07 03:42 UTC
Lord, this was funny:
The people doing the interesting development on the iOS platform at the moment are not apple.
Except that me and the rest of the Internet would beg to differ.
Really? The point I was making (which I thought was obvious) is that every article on iOS5 I have read on the internet makes mention of the fact that the features being promoted are derivative of existing apps/OS's.
But feel free to go off on an irrelevant rant. Suits you.
Both the content of the keynote and the comments here. It's pretty clear that Apple have implemented features because they now have infrastructure in place to support them properly, which is always a good time to do it. Nothing revolutionary but certainly some welcome bits. Interesting that some are claiming Apple have copied features that others have only just shown in sneak previews yet both iOS 5 and Lion are clearly fairly stable development releases.
Clearly 5 "Apple hater" posts to one "Apple Fanboy" - the one "fanboy" got voted down while the haters got voted up. Which is about the ratio I expected.
This is OSNews......what did you expect?
So everybody calm down.
You're serious? Apple has several types of retail arrangements with resellers. Many of them are "Premier Apple Resellers" These are shops that have the look and feel of Apple stores and are fitted out to apple standards without being Apple stores. Countries that don't have Apple stores generally have these. Anything you can get from an Apple Store you can get from them.
It's kind of a no-brainer that these stores and others will distribute the new OS. No I don't have a citation but i'm pretty sure it doesn't make any business sense to burn entire geographies.
It does. Tell you what, A friend of mine owns an Apple premier reseller. I'll ask him what he heard from Apple and get back to you.
For me personally, the most important update in Lion seems to be the polishing of Mail.app. The new side-by-side view looks brilliant, especially in fullscreen mode. This is perfect for me because I usually run Mail on the 13" screen on my Macbook, while doing actual work on an external monitor. And they even stole conversations from Gmail, which is something I have been waiting for somebody to do for seven years now!
This business of downloading Lion...Steve says "only", but Steve has said many things over the years. There must be something more to this. As it stands now, it doesn't make any sense.
You didn't have to sound amaturish all of a sudden by calling iTunes the most horrible player (which is not) and calling RIAA a mafia organization (they are just doing their jobs for musicians etc)...
Maybe you had a crappy day or something and this site looks more or less personal but to keep up, you should at least drop those kind of expressions.
I didn't upgrade to 10.6 because I didn't really see the point of risking to break something that's been working without problems for me. 10.7 is to be downloaded from the App Store, which isn't available for 10.5. Great.