Linked by Thom Holwerda on Mon 6th Jun 2011 19:20 UTC
Apple Apple just held its keynote thing to signal the start of its Worldwide Developers Conference. The big three things Apple talked about were Mac OS X Lion, iOS 5, and its new internet service, iCloud.
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Only available through App Store...
by pantheraleo on Mon 6th Jun 2011 19:32 UTC
pantheraleo
Member since:
2007-03-07

Two very interesting tidbits: it will only be available through the Mac App Store


Permanently? Or just initially? If it's permanently, I guess Steve Jobs doesn't care about those people who live in parts of the world where high speed Internet is still not widely available, and where people still pay by the Megabyte for Internet access. You know, all the millions of people in the world who probably can't download a 4+ GB OS (thanks to daveak for the size correction. Way bigger than I thought it would be).

Edited 2011-06-06 19:38 UTC

Reply Score: 4

daveak Member since:
2008-12-29

You make a good point but 1.2? Guess again. It is 4.

Reply Score: 1

pantheraleo Member since:
2007-03-07

You're right. I forgot how big OS X is. If it's as big as Snow Leopard, then it's 4.7+ GB. Snow Leopard wouldn't even fit on a single layer DVD IIRC. It required a double layer one.

Reply Score: 2

Kroc Member since:
2005-11-10

There's no PPC code in Lion, nadda. Plus they've dropped a number of old stuff like iSync. They must have optimised heavily to get it into 4GB, knowing that it's download-only.

Reply Score: 1

pantheraleo Member since:
2007-03-07

They must have optimised heavily to get it into 4GB, knowing that it's download-only.


Considering Ubuntu fits on a standard CD-ROM, and comes with productivity applications like a full blown office suite, 4GB doesn't seem optimized at all to me. Seems very bloated actually.

There's no PPC code in Snow Leopard either. Other than a 2Mb optional Rosetta install. But it still weighs in at over 4.7 GB.

Edited 2011-06-06 19:53 UTC

Reply Score: 5

Kroc Member since:
2005-11-10

Well, there you go, they did optimise. They shaved off 700MB. It's not 4GB for nothing. Drivers will take up a lot of space. The voice file is 700MB alone (I think Apple have moved these to download-on-demand) -- and remember Lion includes Lion server, so you get the calDav / Wiki / XSan and administration tools.

Reply Score: 1

pantheraleo Member since:
2007-03-07

Drivers will take up a lot of space.


I suspect Ubuntu has to ship with more drivers than OS X does. After all, Apple has long had the luxury of controlling what hardware Macs use, so they don't have to ship drivers for every network card or audio card under the sun, etc.

I know you get Lion Server, but you do not get XSan to the best of my knowledge. XSan is not a standard part of OS X Server. It's a separate product that costs around $1,000.

Edited 2011-06-06 20:09 UTC

Reply Score: 3

Kroc Member since:
2005-11-10

Built into OS X Lion, the Xsan file system allows any Mac with appropriate connectivity to access an Xsan volume. Lion Server includes the Xsan Admin application for hosting and configuring Xsan volumes.


http://www.apple.com/macosx/server/

Edit: I'm just listening to the keynote and I would like to be corrected, I just heard Phill Schiller say that "Server is just a bunch of extra applications you can purchase". Interesting.

Edited 2011-06-06 20:43 UTC

Reply Score: 1

darknexus Member since:
2008-07-15

I suspect Ubuntu has to ship with more drivers than OS X does. After all, Apple has long had the luxury of controlling what hardware Macs use, so they don't have to ship drivers for every network card or audio card under the sun, etc.


Not to defend the beast that is OS X, but I'm not so sure using Linux drivers as an example is a good idea. Sure, there are a lot of drivers shipped with most Linux distros, but how many of them actually fully support the hardware they're meant for? Take sound cards as an example, and see of those Ubuntu drivers can get a full surround setup working without installing anything else (and I mean a real surround, not just a car stereo copy effect).

Reply Score: 4

koffie Member since:
2010-05-06

From what I understood from the keynote, the $50 Lion Server would include xsan...

Reply Score: 1

kaiwai Member since:
2005-07-06

Considering Ubuntu fits on a standard CD-ROM, and comes with productivity applications like a full blown office suite, 4GB doesn't seem optimized at all to me. Seems very bloated actually.


Mac OS includes 32bit and 64bit code in the same image, it also includes a tonne of image and voice files etc. Btw, learn what bloat is defined as: bloat refers to a disproportionate size to features ratio - that the size of the said thing is substantially larger than what it needs to be when compared to the feature set of the said operating system. Going through Mac OS X with a fine tooth comb please point out to me specific examples of bloat - and not this hand waving crap of labelling anything larger than a gig as equally to bloatware.

There's no PPC code in Snow Leopard either. Other than a 2Mb optional Rosetta install. But it still weighs in at over 4.7 GB.


Yes there is PPC code in Snow Leopard:

Kawaii-Gardiners-iMac:lib kawaiigardiner$ file libSystem.B.dylib
libSystem.B.dylib: Mach-O universal binary with 3 architectures
libSystem.B.dylib (for architecture x86_64): Mach-O 64-bit dynamically linked shared library x86_64
libSystem.B.dylib (for architecture i386): Mach-O dynamically linked shared library i386
libSystem.B.dylib (for architecture ppc7400): Mach-O dynamically linked shared library ppc
Kawaii-Gardiners-iMac:lib kawaiigardiner$


Rosetta is the translator where the PPC applications launched, all the PPC dependent code is sucked into Rosetta, converted on the fly when running - you need the PPC code in the libraries which the PPC applications depend upon for Rosetta to be able to run PPC applications. Now that PPC support is gone Rosetta has been removed along with the PPC code in the various libraries.

Reply Score: 2

WorknMan Member since:
2005-11-13

You're right. I forgot how big OS X is. If it's as big as Snow Leopard, then it's 4.7+ GB. Snow Leopard wouldn't even fit on a single layer DVD IIRC. It required a double layer one.


I wonder if you even get to save/burn a backup copy once it is downloaded? If not, what happens if your hard drive crashes or something? Do you then have to install the previous version of OSX and download Lion all over again?

Reply Score: 2

kaiwai Member since:
2005-07-06

I wonder if you even get to save/burn a backup copy once it is downloaded? If not, what happens if your hard drive crashes or something? Do you then have to install the previous version of OSX and download Lion all over again?


You can back up the download but I am unsure whether you can burn it to the DVD in some way as to avoid having to go through having to install Snow Leopard then installing Lion. It makes me wonder whether its going to ship on the AppStore first but there is a quiet launch of the physical copy in stores later on. Its all very well for Apple to expect people to download but they're ignoring the fact that even in their largest market, the United States, access to fast low cost broadband is either out of the reach for many or they're simply not in areas which provide it.

Oh well, I hope that maybe in July we'll find out more details when it is released - especially when taking into consideration large deployments etc.

Reply Score: 2

Neolander Member since:
2010-03-08

What they could perhaps do is allow to make bootable pen drives, or turn Time Machine backups into bootable restore disks.

That would make more sense, given that some macs don't have optical drives included anymore.

Reply Score: 1

kaiwai Member since:
2005-07-06

What they could perhaps do is allow to make bootable pen drives, or turn Time Machine backups into bootable restore disks.

That would make more sense, given that some macs don't have optical drives included anymore.


Apparently in the Lion.app package there is a DMG which you can burn to a CD or thumb drive - if that is the case in the final version then it appears you can do a clean install when it is released ;)

Reply Score: 2

Neolander Member since:
2010-03-08

Indeed, that could be very good news if confirmed, though only for the happy fews who know what the internal structure of a .app is and how to "burn" a disk image to an USB pen drive on OSX.

Reply Score: 1

Kroc Member since:
2005-11-10

It's 4GB. Apple seem quite staunch on this. I could imagine two solutions:

1. Go to an Apple store and they will install it for you

2. Go to an Apple store and they will give you a USB-stick with Lion on it

Also Thom I think you didn't mention that when you buy Lion, it's free for any other compatible Macs you own.

The Windows / Office value proposition gets more and more ridiculous every day.

Reply Score: 1

Bending Unit Member since:
2005-07-06

My country, Sweden, doesn't have a single Apple Store...

Edited 2011-06-06 20:07 UTC

Reply Score: 6

moondevil Member since:
2005-07-08

Mac users tend to forget that the Mac presence outside USA is meaningless.

Reply Score: 3

pantheraleo Member since:
2007-03-07

Mac users tend to forget that the Mac presence outside USA is meaningless.


Apple has retail stores in the UK, Canada, Japan, Italy, Australia, China, Switzerland, Germany, France, and Spain. In addition, they have online storefronts in 37 countries. I hardly think you assessment that the Mac presence outside the USA is meaningless is accurate.

Reply Score: 3

Thom_Holwerda Member since:
2005-06-29

I hardly think you assessment that the Mac presence outside the USA is meaningless is accurate.


Worldwide Mac market share is less than 5%.

Reply Score: 3

pantheraleo Member since:
2007-03-07

Worldwide Mac market share is less than 5%.


Sure. But it's only about 10% in the U.S. Relatively speaking, compared to PCs, Macs still have a very small market share even in the U.S.

Reply Score: 2

tyrione Member since:
2005-11-21

" I hardly think you assessment that the Mac presence outside the USA is meaningless is accurate.


Worldwide Mac market share is less than 5%.
"

Horse crap. You don't get to a 50 Million+ install base for Snow Leopard alone and have < 5%. Next you're going to say the 200 million install base of iOS is < 5% of the Embedded Systems market and you'll do so by citing every POS phone that has an embedded CPU in it to justify your number.

Reply Score: 2

Thom_Holwerda Member since:
2005-06-29

Horse crap. You don't get to a 50 Million+ install base for Snow Leopard alone and have < 5%.


Go and look up the worldwide figures for Mac market share by ANY of the proper venues. They all cite ~5%.

http://gs.statcounter.com/#os-ww-monthly-201005-201105
http://marketshare.hitslink.com/operating-system-market-share.aspx?...

Reply Score: 1

pantheraleo Member since:
2007-03-07

Next you're going to say the 200 million install base of iOS is < 5% of the Embedded Systems market and you'll do so by citing every POS phone that has an embedded CPU in it to justify your number.


My Apple fanboy sense is tingling... Here. Have some more of the kool-aid. It's made by unicorns injecting rainbows into it from their asses don't you know.

Reply Score: 2

Carewolf Member since:
2005-09-08

Apple stores sure, but do they sell Mac's?

We have a few Apple stores(*) in Denmark, they sell iOS products, but mainly brightly colored accessories for iOS products. OS X products seems to be mainly sold via non-Apple stores, like large electronic chains and the limited time offers in supermarkets.

Edit(*): Probably not Apple-owned Apple stores, just authorized vendors only selling Apple-related products.

Edited 2011-06-07 10:34 UTC

Reply Score: 2

d3vi1 Member since:
2006-01-28

You've named 10 countries with Apple Stores. If you live in one of those 10 countries (say Germany), unless you live in Hamburg, Munchen, Berlin or Frankfurt, there's not much you can do. The online store presence is nonexistent in most of the other countries. In Romania, you get a list of the products, and links to some service providers. There's no online Apple Store. There's an App Store (no iTunes and no iBook).
In Romania, out of my closest 10 friends, 9 use Macs. We might be an exception, but that is because the hardware is usually 6 months late and 30% more expensive than in the rest of Europe which makes it almost 60% more expensive than in the States.
I don't find Apple products to be expensive in the States, but in Romania they are exaggerated. In the states, the top model MBA is $1799 on the Apple website. In Romania it's $2950. That's a 64% premium. And people wonder why I buy the hardware from the US.

Reply Score: 1

moondevil Member since:
2005-07-08

In how many cities of those countries?

Reply Score: 2

VZsolt Member since:
2008-10-31

Not even resellers? We don't have any Apple Stores here in Hungary either, but there are quite a few authorized Apple resellers selling all kinds of stuff.

Where did you get your Mac from anyway?

Reply Score: 1

viton Member since:
2005-08-09

...And 4GB download will empty your pockets. Right?

Reply Score: 2

darknexus Member since:
2008-07-15

...And 4GB download will empty your pockets. Right?


You've never dealt with capped internet, have you?

Edited 2011-06-07 00:23 UTC

Reply Score: 4

MOS6510 Member since:
2011-05-12

Over here in The Netherlands we have a number of Apple premium resellers. Their shops even mimic Apple stores.

Also a number of bigger stores have Apple sections, including Apple shirt wearing dedicated sales people/Apple experts.

And if you're lazy you can order stuff on-line and they'll bring it to your home.

Reply Score: 1

looncraz Member since:
2005-07-24

That's because the Swedes are smart - I mean, they do make Volvos...

Reply Score: 2

righard Member since:
2007-12-26

Only after buying it from the Dutch ;)

Reply Score: 2

MOS6510 Member since:
2011-05-12

I have a friend in Sweden.

Over there he has bought an iPhone 3G, iPhone 4, iPad, iPad 2 and a MacBook Air. At home he has 100 Mb/s fiber Internet connectivity.

He lives in a village in the middle of the country, not in the south where the bigger cities are.

Reply Score: 1

Melicerte Member since:
2006-08-29

The Apple stores in Sweden are sold by Ikea, you have to build them by yourself.

Ok, I go out.

Reply Score: 2

Neolander Member since:
2010-03-08

The Apple stores in Sweden are sold by Ikea, you have to build them by yourself.

Ok, I go out.

Nah, that cannot be. What IKEA sells is usually relatively cheap, and that is fundamentally incompatible with everything Apple.

Please keep the door open for me when you leave.

Reply Score: 3

jsolares Member since:
2005-07-06

I'm not entirely sure, with apple you pay more upfront for hardware, granted in some cases you don't pay more, but still, apple makes the OS to sell hardware, microsoft is a software house.

Reply Score: 1

Bill Shooter of Bul Member since:
2006-07-14

If it's permanently, I guess Steve Jobs doesn't care about those people who live in parts of the world where high speed Internet is still not widely available, and where people still pay by the Megabyte for Internet access. You know, all the millions of people in the world who probably can't download a 4+ GB OS (thanks to daveak for the size correction. Way bigger than I thought it would be).


You thought he would care about these people? That's a rather odd assumption to make about Apple. They've never shied away from having limited numbers of people use their devices and/or services. Like most businesses, they care about the bottom line of their business and pursue strategies to enhance it. Unlike the suggestion of their late 90's advertisements, they think more like Microsoft than Martin Luther King, Jackie Robinson and Mahatma Gandhi.

Reply Score: 2

TELL THE TRUTH
by jackeebleu on Mon 6th Jun 2011 22:18 UTC in reply to "Only available through App Store..."
jackeebleu Member since:
2006-01-26

The only reason you guys are griping about the DL only status of 10.7 is you wont be able to pirate it off of USENET and burn as many times as you want. LMAO!

Reply Score: 0

RE: TELL THE TRUTH
by Laurence on Tue 7th Jun 2011 07:26 UTC in reply to "TELL THE TRUTH"
Laurence Member since:
2007-03-26

The only reason you guys are griping about the DL only status of 10.7 is you wont be able to pirate it off of USENET and burn as many times as you want. LMAO!

Even with a "AppStore only" policy, cracked ISOs will eventually make it to P2P and news groups anyway.

All Apple are doing is inconveniencing those that want to buy their software legitimately.

Reply Score: 4

MOS6510 Member since:
2011-05-12

It's not like there are hoards of people living in those parts of the world that have a 64 bit iMac in their hut.

Reply Score: 1

ronaldst
Member since:
2005-06-29

Twitter integration, photostream, 1 touch camera...

Another bland WWDC. Still no talk about resolution independence. No revamped interface for iOS.

Reply Score: 2

ccraig13 Member since:
2011-05-31

Yeah I'm bummed. I was hoping Apple would offer a subscription music service. Guess I'm sticking with MOG.

Edited 2011-06-06 20:49 UTC

Reply Score: 1

Hmm..
by leos on Mon 6th Jun 2011 19:54 UTC
leos
Member since:
2005-09-21

Not a bad announcement overall.
New notification system, good. Like Thom said, copying good features is a good thing! When companies refuse to copy good features you end up with Windows' stacked app switcher instead of something useful like Expose.

iCloud. Wicked. I think this is the proper solution to the documents problem on iOS. The easiest solution would have been to make a Documents folder that apps can save to, but this is better. I am very careful with my phone, but it is inherently a fragile device and prone to getting lost. The correct solution is continuous synching to the cloud, not storing things only on the device. This will remove a lot of hacky solutions that various apps have implemented to transfer files to and from their app. Best part of today's announcement by far.

New OSX.. Looks like a decent incremental upgrade, for an incremental upgrade price. No complaints.

iOS 5. Doesn't go far enough. Some nice changes for sure, but I was really hoping for some more significant changes to the home screen. I don't care about widgets and think they're mostly a useless CPU/memory/battery hog, but what I really want is a quick toggle for wifi/bluetooth. Going into the settings each time is a pain (white whine there). I'm hoping something like this is actually in there, but just wasn't highlighted today.

Twitter integration - I have no use for it. And why twitter? Why not make it social media integration so I can link it to my facebook?? This smells like some sort of exclusive deal with twitter and it sucks.

Edited 2011-06-06 19:55 UTC

Reply Score: 2

RE: Hmm..
by eduSquirrel on Mon 6th Jun 2011 20:24 UTC in reply to "Hmm.."
eduSquirrel Member since:
2011-06-06

I am sure there is tons of fodder for the haters in that conference.

Lots of cool polish. Nice to see some good ideas from other platforms. I think I am looking forward to all the updates, but the only one I was really wanting, and felt missing was iMessage. I really hope they make the ICD for this open, or at least licensable. I was hoping of iOS like sleep though. Otherwise it is just BBM, stuck on a single platform.

As for OS size: Who is installing OS X on such constrained hardware? Not many devices would run 10. smoothly, that have a HDD less than 40GB.

As for download only: I just spend 4 months living in a place with dial-up-only, so I feel for these people. If I was still in that situation, I would buy the $29 update, but not download it, then get a friend to burn me a copy off TPB. But I suppose if you had _no_ internet, I'd likely feel justified skipping the mac store purch part of my plan...

Reply Score: 1

RE: Hmm..
by koffie on Tue 7th Jun 2011 11:26 UTC in reply to "Hmm.."
koffie Member since:
2010-05-06

The twitter integration is probably due to Zuckerberg not being a huge iPhone/Apple fan who doesn't really hide that fact... And what else is there to sync with? Anyway - you can link your twitter with fb so you synchronize your spam if that's what you want :p

Regarding your iOS criticism, it's true that it's more evolutionary than revolutionary. Not too impressed, most of the time it was a "finally" feeling I got, except for 2 moments: 1) when I saw location based reminders, which is pretty cool, and 2) when they presented iMessage (because it seems to be a big "up yours" to the carriers) All in all - it's just a major polish of the OS, without breaking their UI. Nothing really disappointing, but nothing groundbreaking, except for the iCloud integration.

The Wifi/Bluetooth on/off switches is something you'll never see on any Apple device. It's against the "it just works" philosophy. It's technical, and 'users' don't have to know about this stuff. Not wanting these toggle switches forces Apple into looking for more power efficient technologies and better batteries and forces them to innovate. Currently I can easily get through the day with my iPhone 4, WiFi and BT on all the time, and my BT connected to my carkit for 1 to 2 hours a day, heavy phone useage, playing music in my car all the time (not charging since my iPod connector kit is too old - on the contrary, it leaves my phone's display on all the time). I usually have about 30 to 40% battery left when plugging it in at night. My colleague with his Samsung Galaxy S II can only dream of something like this. Without his toggle switches, he doesn't make it through the day. It is true that with them, and manually managing them carefully he squeezes out 2 days, but that's not worth the hassle for me.

Reply Score: 1

Comment by Radio
by Radio on Mon 6th Jun 2011 20:19 UTC
Radio
Member since:
2009-06-20

Busy June: after Apple, Microsoft & HP, you can also add Nokia Connection in Singapore by the end of the month, which should be rich in revelations about incoming WP7 & MeeGo devices.

Reply Score: 2

10.7... Not?
by henderson101 on Mon 6th Jun 2011 20:20 UTC
henderson101
Member since:
2006-05-30

As I predicted, and was shot down by Eddyspeeder - no mention of 10.7.

http://www.osnews.com/permalink?445996

Reply Score: 1

RE: 10.7... Not?
by henrikmk on Mon 6th Jun 2011 20:52 UTC in reply to "10.7... Not?"
henrikmk Member since:
2005-07-10
RE[2]: 10.7... Not?
by henderson101 on Tue 7th Jun 2011 14:37 UTC in reply to "RE: 10.7... Not?"
henderson101 Member since:
2006-05-30

And Windows 7 is also NT 6.x. Your point? The product marketing is *not* mentioning 10.7 *anywhere* - that is my point.

Reply Score: 2

RE[3]: 10.7... Not?
by tyrione on Tue 7th Jun 2011 23:07 UTC in reply to "RE[2]: 10.7... Not?"
tyrione Member since:
2005-11-21

And Windows 7 is also NT 6.x. Your point? The product marketing is *not* mentioning 10.7 *anywhere* - that is my point.


OS X 10.7 is LION:

http://www.apple.com/macosx/whats-new/features.html

Just as OS X 10.6 is SNOW LEOPARD Apple advertises Code Names of their OS on their site and numbers on their Release Notes.

Reply Score: 2

iClean
by andih on Mon 6th Jun 2011 21:33 UTC
andih
Member since:
2010-03-27

Im iClean, and absolutely loving it!

that said, I think Id prefer to use OS X than Windows..
well you know.. if I really really had no other choice.

Removing iTunes dependency was a good move. Is apple softening up? :p

Reply Score: 1

RE: iClean
by Kasi on Tue 7th Jun 2011 06:01 UTC in reply to "iClean"
Kasi Member since:
2008-07-12

I'm a bit worried and morbidly curious what sort of masochistic rituals an Apple faithful has to subject themselves to in the shower to become "iClean".

Reply Score: 1

Good work on iOS
by Neolander on Mon 6th Jun 2011 22:08 UTC
Neolander
Member since:
2010-03-08

1/Congratulations to Apple for recognizing that they are not alone in the mobile space and learning to steal good ideas. Innovation is a cooperative process.
2/Congratulations for helping at the task of removing the abomination that desktop iTunes is from the face of the Earth, even though insensitive jerks like myself won't be fully satisfied until things like the App Store monopoly get out too.
3/Congratulations for trying again to provide updates for two years old devices, since apparently that's an achievement in the mobile space. Hope for 3GS owner that Apple has learned from its past mistakes.

One has to give credit where it's due.

Otherwise... Well, if a 4GB Lion image is optimized for download, I hope for Mac users that they will all have gained a fast optical internet connection by the time next version of OSX comes out (if it ever comes out). This is going to be quite painful, especially for the poor souls who rely on slow and monthly capped mobile networks... Guess this is a way for Apple to have people more regularly buy new Mac hardware when they don't need to.

Edited 2011-06-06 22:11 UTC

Reply Score: 1

RE: Good work on iOS
by leos on Mon 6th Jun 2011 22:51 UTC in reply to "Good work on iOS"
leos Member since:
2005-09-21

Otherwise... Well, if a 4GB Lion image is optimized for download, I hope for Mac users that they will all have gained a fast optical internet connection by the time next version of OSX comes out.


Seems big, but any run of the mill cable connection will download that in a day. No idea what you're talking about with mobile networks, this is OSX, you're not going to be downloading it over 3g!

Reply Score: 1

RE[2]: Good work on iOS
by mango on Tue 7th Jun 2011 01:56 UTC in reply to "RE: Good work on iOS"
mango Member since:
2006-12-15

Where I'm at the fasted DSL/Cable connection is 1Mbps ($100 per month). My 3G connection is 3.6Mbps with real life speeds of about 2Mbps. So yes it sucks to say I'll probably be using my 3G connection to download Lion at a cost of $15 per GB or suffer days downloading it.

Reply Score: 1

RE[3]: Good work on iOS
by zetsurin on Tue 7th Jun 2011 02:23 UTC in reply to "RE[2]: Good work on iOS"
zetsurin Member since:
2006-06-13

How about refusing to update until Apple budges on this? I mean, there aren't really any features that are absolutely necessary to have, particularly from day 1.

If enough people refuse to update, then the OSX platform will start to suffer enough fragmentation for Apple to want to do something to improve the uptake.

Reply Score: 2

RE[4]: Good work on iOS
by apoclypse on Tue 7th Jun 2011 02:43 UTC in reply to "RE[3]: Good work on iOS"
apoclypse Member since:
2007-02-17

People are going to have to realize that the situation is going to get worst rather than better. File sizes are getting bigger, not smaller. Hell, Xcode itself is a hefty download. Refusing to update is not going to hurt Apple one bit. They'd rather you buy a new Mac with it preinstalled anyway. Fragmentation is only going to hurt you in the end. At 29.99 I doubt most people wouldn't download it, and as more developers start to use the included apis older versions of OSX get will see less support.

Windows 7 for example is a pretty big file download from eopen. Its about 3.75 GBs it think. OSX is a bit bigger coming in at 4GB. Most likely due to drivers, WIn7 uses Windows update to search for drivers. Either way, I don't 4GB is all that bad. It would be nice if Apple let put it on a USB stick but then they wouldn't be able to control people copying it all over the place.

Reply Score: 2

RE[5]: Good work on iOS
by vodoomoth on Tue 7th Jun 2011 11:20 UTC in reply to "RE[4]: Good work on iOS"
vodoomoth Member since:
2010-03-30

It would be nice if Apple let put it on a USB stick but then they wouldn't be able to control people copying it all over the place.

I don't think they cared about the copying for two reasons: first, the price is low (especially compared to Windowses) which means (to me) that they don't count on the selling price to inflate their revenue, second, I pre-ordered Snow Leopard at 29€ in august 2009 and I could use the disc on any number of Macs I would have happened to own: there was no copy control scheme whatsoever.

Reply Score: 2

RE[3]: Good work on iOS
by leos on Tue 7th Jun 2011 04:02 UTC in reply to "RE[2]: Good work on iOS"
leos Member since:
2005-09-21

1. 4 gigs at 1Mbps is only about 9 hours, not days.
2. You'd rather spend 4.5 hours and $60 to download over the cell network than have it just download overnight for free? That makes no sense whatsoever.

Reply Score: 2

RE[4]: Good work on iOS
by Kasi on Tue 7th Jun 2011 06:06 UTC in reply to "RE[3]: Good work on iOS"
Kasi Member since:
2008-07-12

You are talking to someone who owns an Apple - its a whole different value system where paying extra for "privlege" is an accepted norm. Its the same mentality that goes into clicking the "overnight shipping" or "2nd day delivery" options for $40 - $80 more for online purchases.

Not saying its wrong, its just different. Its a mindset that I don't understand either, but believe me those with that mindset don't really understand people you and I either.

Reply Score: 1

RE[2]: Good work on iOS
by Neolander on Tue 7th Jun 2011 07:02 UTC in reply to "RE: Good work on iOS"
Neolander Member since:
2010-03-08

Seems big, but any run of the mill cable connection will download that in a day.

If nobody else uses the connection, or if the download takes top priority, which would in effect render the connection unusable for the day. Otherwise, it would be more like a day and a night. Not a big deal for regular P2P networks users, but other people might find it strange that they have to keep their computer turned on for so long. Except, of course, if the Mac App Store supports download suspend and resume.

Also, I hope that the Mac App Store deactivates power saving functions when it's downloading something. IIRC, Safari (at least the version on my girlfriend's macbook) doesn't.

Then again, there's the monthly cap issue...

No idea what you're talking about with mobile networks, this is OSX, you're not going to be downloading it over 3g!

Well, why not ? If download is the sole option, Apple has to support all internet users. And I've already seen many people who only have mobile internet at home around the web, and claim not to have the choice. I can also see why : landline networks are more expensive to deploy in some areas, so if the population is small operators won't bother.

Reply Score: 1

RE[2]: Good work on iOS
by shotsman on Tue 7th Jun 2011 08:41 UTC in reply to "RE: Good work on iOS"
shotsman Member since:
2005-07-22

Why wouldn't I download the IOS update over 3g?
There are parts of the world where 3g networks aren't hobbled like the US.
I get 15Gb/month for £15.00 here in the UK so 4Gb is easily within my allowance. I've already downloaded the Fedora 15 X64 DVD Iso this month.

Reply Score: 2

RE[3]: Good work on iOS
by Kasi on Tue 7th Jun 2011 15:27 UTC in reply to "RE[2]: Good work on iOS"
Kasi Member since:
2008-07-12

What is the rate for expanding that data cap?

While by simple math 4gb easily fits into 15gb, however you still have to look at the whole months allowance.

You download 4gb of Apple operating system data.

11gb for the rest of the month.

What does the break down for this look like in terms of what you can do?

1 Netflix streaming movie ~ 3gb
1 Linux dvd iso ~ 4bg
1 Standard P2P Movie ~ 2-3gb

So in the same month that iOS is downloaded, that allows for 3 movies the whole month, or 2 movies and a linux iso to try out, etc.

Its easy to say its doable but any way its presented, the iOS download is eating nearly 30% of your entire monthly allotment.

Reply Score: 1

New iOS Notifications
by daschmidty on Mon 6th Jun 2011 23:39 UTC
daschmidty
Member since:
2007-03-01

Does anyone else find the news of the new Android-esque (mentioned by Thom to be Touchwiz-esque) more than a bit amusing in light of Apple's recent lawsuit against Samsung? Seems like the pot should think before calling the kettle black.

Reply Score: 4

RE: New iOS Notifications
by siimo on Tue 7th Jun 2011 05:36 UTC in reply to "New iOS Notifications"
siimo Member since:
2006-06-22

Yep and it will be even more amusing if this patent is granted: http://www.google.com/patents?id=r9DqAAAAEBAJ

It is still "pending" but filed Jan '09.

Will Google counter sue?

Reply Score: 2

Innovation
by dumbkiwi on Tue 7th Jun 2011 03:41 UTC
dumbkiwi
Member since:
2006-01-02

The only thing Apple has innovated in iOS5 is the marketing of other peoples ideas as your own.

http://like-a-boss.org/2011/06/06/ios5-innovating-like-a-boss/

Edited 2011-06-07 03:42 UTC

Reply Score: 3

RE: Innovation
by vodoomoth on Tue 7th Jun 2011 11:21 UTC in reply to "Innovation"
vodoomoth Member since:
2010-03-30

Lord, this was funny:

I don’t know about you, but if that’s the best Apple’s got, then my recommendation would be for them to open source iOS, and let some real developers innovate on the technology.


Edited 2011-06-07 11:22 UTC

Reply Score: 2

RE[2]: Innovation
by dumbkiwi on Wed 8th Jun 2011 10:18 UTC in reply to "RE: Innovation"
dumbkiwi Member since:
2006-01-02

The people doing the interesting development on the iOS platform at the moment are not apple.

Reply Score: 1

RE: Innovation
by tyrione on Tue 7th Jun 2011 23:02 UTC in reply to "Innovation"
tyrione Member since:
2005-11-21

The only thing Apple has innovated in iOS5 is the marketing of other peoples ideas as your own.

http://like-a-boss.org/2011/06/06/ios5-innovating-like-a-boss/


You write like an incompetent fool who knows nothing of the underlying R&D at both the Hardware and OS levels.

Reply Score: 2

RE[2]: Innovation
by dumbkiwi on Wed 8th Jun 2011 10:20 UTC in reply to "RE: Innovation"
dumbkiwi Member since:
2006-01-02

Except that me and the rest of the Internet would beg to differ.

Reply Score: 1

RE[3]: Innovation
by kaiwai on Thu 9th Jun 2011 02:44 UTC in reply to "RE[2]: Innovation"
kaiwai Member since:
2005-07-06

Except that me and the rest of the Internet would beg to differ.


And you some how represent 'the internet'? last time I checked there wasn't some sort of general election with the outcome being that you're Pooh-Bah and holding such offices, including "First Lord of the Treasury, Lord Chief Justice, Commander-in-Chief, Lord High Admiral... Archbishop of Titipu, and Lord Mayor" and Lord High Everything Else.

Reply Score: 2

RE[4]: Innovation
by dumbkiwi on Fri 10th Jun 2011 19:58 UTC in reply to "RE[3]: Innovation"
dumbkiwi Member since:
2006-01-02

Really? The point I was making (which I thought was obvious) is that every article on iOS5 I have read on the internet makes mention of the fact that the features being promoted are derivative of existing apps/OS's.

But feel free to go off on an irrelevant rant. Suits you.

Reply Score: 1

Expected
by ourcomputerbloke on Tue 7th Jun 2011 08:53 UTC
ourcomputerbloke
Member since:
2011-05-12

Both the content of the keynote and the comments here. It's pretty clear that Apple have implemented features because they now have infrastructure in place to support them properly, which is always a good time to do it. Nothing revolutionary but certainly some welcome bits. Interesting that some are claiming Apple have copied features that others have only just shown in sneak previews yet both iOS 5 and Lion are clearly fairly stable development releases.

Clearly 5 "Apple hater" posts to one "Apple Fanboy" - the one "fanboy" got voted down while the haters got voted up. Which is about the ratio I expected.

Reply Score: 1

RE: Expected
by polaris20 on Tue 7th Jun 2011 14:30 UTC in reply to "Expected"
polaris20 Member since:
2005-07-06

This is OSNews......what did you expect?

Reply Score: 1

siraf72
Member since:
2006-02-22

So everybody calm down.

Reply Score: 1

Thom_Holwerda Member since:
2005-06-29

So everybody calm down.


[citation needed]

Reply Score: 1

siraf72 Member since:
2006-02-22

You're serious? Apple has several types of retail arrangements with resellers. Many of them are "Premier Apple Resellers" These are shops that have the look and feel of Apple stores and are fitted out to apple standards without being Apple stores. Countries that don't have Apple stores generally have these. Anything you can get from an Apple Store you can get from them.

It's kind of a no-brainer that these stores and others will distribute the new OS. No I don't have a citation but i'm pretty sure it doesn't make any business sense to burn entire geographies.

Reply Score: 1

Thom_Holwerda Member since:
2005-06-29

You're serious? Apple has several types of retail arrangements with resellers. Many of them are "Premier Apple Resellers" These are shops that have the look and feel of Apple stores and are fitted out to apple standards without being Apple stores. Countries that don't have Apple stores generally have these. Anything you can get from an Apple Store you can get from them.

It's kind of a no-brainer that these stores and others will distribute the new OS. No I don't have a citation but i'm pretty sure it doesn't make any business sense to burn entire geographies.


Steve Jobs specifically said: Mac App Store only. That's pretty definitive to me.

Reply Score: 1

siraf72 Member since:
2006-02-22

It does. Tell you what, A friend of mine owns an Apple premier reseller. I'll ask him what he heard from Apple and get back to you.

Reply Score: 1

Comment by bogomipz
by bogomipz on Tue 7th Jun 2011 20:00 UTC
bogomipz
Member since:
2005-07-11

For me personally, the most important update in Lion seems to be the polishing of Mail.app. The new side-by-side view looks brilliant, especially in fullscreen mode. This is perfect for me because I usually run Mail on the 13" screen on my Macbook, while doing actual work on an external monitor. And they even stole conversations from Gmail, which is something I have been waiting for somebody to do for seven years now!

http://www.apple.com/macosx/whats-new/mail.html

Reply Score: 2

There Must Be Something Else...
by parrotjoe on Wed 8th Jun 2011 01:01 UTC
parrotjoe
Member since:
2005-07-06

This business of downloading Lion...Steve says "only", but Steve has said many things over the years. There must be something more to this. As it stands now, it doesn't make any sense.

Reply Score: 1

wtf calm down
by h1d_ on Thu 9th Jun 2011 12:51 UTC
h1d_
Member since:
2008-11-25

You didn't have to sound amaturish all of a sudden by calling iTunes the most horrible player (which is not) and calling RIAA a mafia organization (they are just doing their jobs for musicians etc)...

Maybe you had a crappy day or something and this site looks more or less personal but to keep up, you should at least drop those kind of expressions.

Reply Score: 1

10.5 to 10.7?
by eml.nu on Fri 10th Jun 2011 18:09 UTC
eml.nu
Member since:
2006-07-04

>_>

I didn't upgrade to 10.6 because I didn't really see the point of risking to break something that's been working without problems for me. 10.7 is to be downloaded from the App Store, which isn't available for 10.5. Great.

Reply Score: 1