Linked by David Adams on Thu 16th Jun 2011 17:46 UTC
Games Microsoft has released a beta SDK for Windows, allowing Windows developers to officially make use of the XBox Kinect hardware. From their own press release: "The Kinect for Windows SDK, which works with Windows 7, includes drivers, rich APIs for Raw Sensor Streams, natural user interfaces, installer documents and resource materials. The SDK provides Kinect capabilities to developers building applications with C++, C# or Visual Basic using Microsoft Visual Studio 2010."
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Huh.
by Thom_Holwerda on Thu 16th Jun 2011 18:40 UTC
Thom_Holwerda
Member since:
2005-06-29

Huh. It uses .NET.

But I thought that because the new weather widget in Windows 8 was written using HTML5 and JS that Microsoft would drop everything .NET evar and evarz1?

Reply Score: 1

Good
by puddgomez on Thu 16th Jun 2011 19:11 UTC
puddgomez
Member since:
2011-06-16

Can we finally have a minority report interface with this?

Reply Score: 2

Uses for Kinect on Windows
by fretinator on Thu 16th Jun 2011 19:21 UTC
fretinator
Member since:
2005-07-06

1. If you salute with 3 fingers, Windows asks if you want to reboot

2. If you "salute" with 1 finger, Clippy asks if you meant "Thank You!"

3. If you face away from the computer, and bend forwards, Windows asks if you are ready for the "Window Genuine Validation Test".

4. Imitating Jerry Seinfeld - no effect on Windows.

5. Standing perfectly still and expressionless - Windows says, "Hello Melissa!"

Reply Score: 10

Gmail motion???
by amadensor on Thu 16th Jun 2011 20:20 UTC
amadensor
Member since:
2006-04-10

Will gmail motion finally work?

http://www.gmail.com/motion

And we all thought it was just an April Fool....

Reply Score: 1

RE: Gmail motion???
by n4cer on Thu 16th Jun 2011 20:35 UTC in reply to "Gmail motion???"
n4cer Member since:
2005-07-06

Will gmail motion finally work?

http://www.gmail.com/motion

And we all thought it was just an April Fool....


It's been done (though not by Google).
Maybe it'll be ported to the SDK.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lfso7_i9Ko8

Reply Score: 2

RE: Gmail motion???
by lucas_maximus on Thu 16th Jun 2011 23:25 UTC in reply to "Gmail motion???"
lucas_maximus Member since:
2009-08-18

Hopefully yes ;) ... though it will make it far easier for my boss to know when I am checking my gmail.

Reply Score: 2

Comment by Kroc
by Kroc on Thu 16th Jun 2011 20:55 UTC
Kroc
Member since:
2005-11-10

Well, what else were they going to do? Allow an open source, cross platform SDK independent of Microsoft to gain traction? With a Windows-based SDK using Visual Studio, young programmers will be happily trapped on a Windows stack for decades! It’ll be this decade’s Access.

Reply Score: 2

RE: Comment by Kroc
by Thom_Holwerda on Thu 16th Jun 2011 20:56 UTC in reply to "Comment by Kroc"
Thom_Holwerda Member since:
2005-06-29

Well, what else were they going to do? Allow an open source, cross platform SDK independent of Microsoft to gain traction? With a Windows-based SDK using Visual Studio, young programmers will be happily trapped on a Windows stack for decades! It’ll be this decade’s Access.


Don't you mean it'll be this decade's Xcode?

Reply Score: 2

RE: Comment by Kroc
by lucas_maximus on Thu 16th Jun 2011 23:24 UTC in reply to "Comment by Kroc"
lucas_maximus Member since:
2009-08-18

OMG I thought you would have more intelligence than this to say something soo stupid.

A good developer is a good developer in any language.

According to your logic ... I learnt how to program in BBC BASIC, does that mean I am still trapped in only writing programs in BBC BASIC?

Also According to your logic, I learnt how to program OO in Java, does that mean I can only do OO programming in Java?

Good devs will learn the principles rather than the toolkit ... and take those ideas elsewhere.

Whether they learn them using a .NET framework or an alternative open source one is irrelevant.

There is going to be an underlying theory on how these devices work and without that you won't be able to program these well even if you know the SDK inside out.

It just an SDK to make it easier for .NET devs to develop stuff for what is essentially a USB device.

Also if students and hackers learn some knowledge about how to program and how these devices work ... how can this possibly be a bad thing?

Personally I hope some cool things come out of it.

Reply Score: 4

RE[2]: Comment by Kroc
by Laurence on Fri 17th Jun 2011 12:47 UTC in reply to "RE: Comment by Kroc"
Laurence Member since:
2007-03-26

It's not really that "stupid" of comment to make if you look at the development community in it's entirety rather than just the elite few.

Most developers are lazy and a disappointing few developer are good developers.

I've lost count of the number of times I've seen nasty kludges and even wrong languages chosen because developers couldn't be bothered to or didn't know how to do things properly.

Reply Score: 3

RE[3]: Comment by Kroc
by lucas_maximus on Fri 17th Jun 2011 13:40 UTC in reply to "RE[2]: Comment by Kroc"
lucas_maximus Member since:
2009-08-18

There are lazy people who do half arsed things in all walks of life ... really how does lazy devs have anything to do with this?

I have seen bad code in a multitude of languages ... there will always be rubbish code as long as software engineering processes are misunderstood and there is lazy developers involved who only care about their paycheck.

How exactly is Microsoft release an official SDK for their own product got anything to do with locking new devs Microsoft platforms in or code quality?

As I said, I learnt how to OOP using Java and Eclipse or a good text editor ... and Web Dev with a LAMP stack ... now I use ASP.NET.



When it comes to learning ... understanding principles is what is important ... what you happen to learn them with is largely irrelevant.

Edited 2011-06-17 13:44 UTC

Reply Score: 2

RE[4]: Comment by Kroc
by Laurence on Fri 17th Jun 2011 16:08 UTC in reply to "RE[3]: Comment by Kroc"
Laurence Member since:
2007-03-26

I think you've missed the point of my post by quite a margin.

There are lazy people who do half arsed things in all walks of life ... really how does lazy devs have anything to do with this?

...because this topic is about software development...


I have seen bad code in a multitude of languages ... there will always be rubbish code as long as software engineering processes are misunderstood and there is lazy developers involved who only care about their paycheck.

Well yes. But we're talking specifically about developers so i didn't see the point in discussing other industries.

How exactly is Microsoft release an official SDK for their own product got anything to do with locking new devs Microsoft platforms in or code quality?

Because if you are lazy and you've learned how to use this SDK, then why would you bother learning how to use another SDK. This is particularly true for hobbyists.

As I said, I learnt how to OOP using Java and Eclipse or a good text editor ... and Web Dev with a LAMP stack ... now I use ASP.NET.

Well clearly you're not lazy so your anecdotal evidence is irrelevant.


When it comes to learning ... understanding principles is what is important ... what you happen to learn them with is largely irrelevant.

I agree, *if* you're a good programmer. However we're discussing the other end of the spectrum.

Not everybody falls into the category you're describing. There's a massive number of developers and hobbyists that will just make do with whatever tools and languages they're already familiar with. In fact, most developers (even the good ones) will favor a project in a language they're already experienced in than want to learn a new language just for the sake of learning a new language. So while this move by MS isn't a "lock in" in the traditional technical sense of the term, it does give users more reason to stick with VS / .NET rather than learn open source tools.

To put an analogy on this: it's like how Linux users moan about who many students are taught how to use MS Office, not generic office tools. Thus users are naturally more drawn toward MS Office as it's what they're familiar with despite the fact that general office computing skills are easily transferable between all the big office software suites.

Edited 2011-06-17 16:16 UTC

Reply Score: 2

RE[5]: Comment by Kroc
by lucas_maximus on Fri 17th Jun 2011 18:05 UTC in reply to "RE[4]: Comment by Kroc"
lucas_maximus Member since:
2009-08-18

I think you've missed the point of my post by quite a margin.


No I don't think I did. I think you are making an argument because you think there is something inheritantly wrong with developing with Visual Studio.

...because this topic is about software development...


It is a general point ... stop being a pedant. You knew what my point was ... this sort of arguing is pathetic.

Well yes. But we're talking specifically about developers so i didn't see the point in discussing other industries.


I wasn't discussing other industries. I was discussing software development. I actually work somewhere where there has been no code quality enforced (code reviews, naming conventions etc etc) ... I spend most of my day rewriting legacy code. How software development is managed is probably as important as the talent and knowledge of the developers themselves ... if not more so.

Because if you are lazy and you've learned how to use this SDK, then why would you bother learning how to use another SDK. This is particularly true for hobbyists.


Why would you bother using another SDK when you already know how to use the current one? It is laziness ... it is being sensible. I have some javascript code running on a website of dubious quality (written when I was far more inexperienced), but I left it as is .. because it works fine.

Well clearly you're not lazy so your anecdotal evidence is irrelevant


How to twist a comment around ... this is just pathetic.

I agree, *if* you're a good programmer. However we're discussing the other end of the spectrum.


Which is entirely my point in the first place ... if people happen to learn with Microsoft tools but understand the principles they will still be able to transition to whatever ... if they don't bother to learn the principles they will be starting from square one again ... however that doesn't mean that it is bad for Microsoft to release a SDK.

Not everybody falls into the category you're describing. There's a massive number of developers and hobbyists that will just make do with whatever tools and languages they're already familiar with. In fact, most developers (even the good ones) will favor a project in a language they're already experienced in than want to learn a new language just for the sake of learning a new language.


Fair point ... you should always use the best tools for the job, rather than blindly stick to something because you happen to know.

So while this move by MS isn't a "lock in" in the traditional technical sense of the term, it does give users more reason to stick with VS / .NET rather than learn open source tools.


1) Microsoft have no responsibility to help third party projects.

2) Why shouldn't users learn how to develop with Microsoft Tools? ... There is a lot of jobs out there for devs that know how to develop using Microsoft tools .. are you saying that people shouldn't make themselves employable?

3) If open source tools are to be more widely used then they have to be more attractive to use than the (Microsoft in this case) alternatives.

To put an analogy on this: it's like how Linux users moan about who many students are taught how to use MS Office, not generic office tools. Thus users are naturally more drawn toward MS Office as it's what they're familiar with despite the fact that general office computing skills are easily transferable between all the big office software suites.


In terms of using IDEs, I have to agree. I don't know my way around Eclipse as well as I used to.

Edited 2011-06-17 18:07 UTC

Reply Score: 2

RE[6]: Comment by Kroc
by Laurence on Fri 17th Jun 2011 20:43 UTC in reply to "RE[5]: Comment by Kroc"
Laurence Member since:
2007-03-26

No I don't think I did. I think you are making an argument because you think there is something inheritantly wrong with developing with Visual Studio.

WTF!?! Where did you get that retarded opinion from. I've regularly commented on here that I happen to think Visual Studio is not only the best IDE out there, but the best thing MS have ever developed.

I mean has this discussion already sunk that low that now you're resorting to plucking complete bullshit out of thin air?

Sorry but I really can't be arsed to read the rest of your post because the opening statement alone is so absurd that I don't hold any hope of you posting sane comments after it.

/me gives up on this discussion

Edited 2011-06-17 20:45 UTC

Reply Score: 2

RE[7]: Comment by Kroc
by lucas_maximus on Fri 17th Jun 2011 21:08 UTC in reply to "RE[6]: Comment by Kroc"
lucas_maximus Member since:
2009-08-18

WTF!?! Where did you get that retarded opinion from.


The fact you were blatently missing every point I made and twisting my words around ... when you blatently knew what I meant ... it is a bit sad ... you stopped talking like an adult before me.

I've regularly commented on here that I happen to think Visual Studio is not only the best IDE out there, but the best thing MS have ever developed.


Oh right ... I am supposed to remember every user name and their general opinions. Really?

I mean has this discussion already sunk that low that now you're resorting to plucking complete bullshit out of thin air?


It wasn't really out of thin air. It was the fact that you seemed to miss the point completely ... it was almost as if you were doing it on purpose.

Sorry but I really can't be arsed to read the rest of your post because the opening statement alone is so absurd that I don't hold any hope of you posting sane comments after it.

/me gives up on this discussion


Do what you wish ... save me keystrokes.

Reply Score: 2

RE[2]: Comment by Kroc
by Kroc on Fri 17th Jun 2011 13:48 UTC in reply to "RE: Comment by Kroc"
Kroc Member since:
2005-11-10

They might be able to learn how to code properly, but will they learn a sense of humour ;)

Reply Score: 1

RE[3]: Comment by Kroc
by lucas_maximus on Fri 17th Jun 2011 21:09 UTC in reply to "RE[2]: Comment by Kroc"
lucas_maximus Member since:
2009-08-18

I dunno kroc ... seemed like the usual MS bashing bullshit I see on here. How the hell am I supposed to know if it is a joke or not ... seriously?

Reply Score: 3

Little off-topic ...
by WorknMan on Thu 16th Jun 2011 23:48 UTC
WorknMan
Member since:
2005-11-13

This is a little off-topic, but I just found out about this and thought it was cool ;) Being released in August, Nyko is going to attempt to solve the 'play space' issues with Kinect:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5i_UQ04Iylk&feature=player_embedded

I'm guessing this might also help with using gestures on a PC when you're sitting in front of it, but not sure.

Reply Score: 2

I wonder
by jabjoe on Fri 17th Jun 2011 07:50 UTC
jabjoe
Member since:
2009-05-06

I wonder if this would have happened if drivers weren't hacked up to make it work with Linux. MS can't have liked all those Linux YouTube Kinect videos..... Those drivers are in the kernel mainline now. Be interesting how the OpenKinect SDK compares with the MS one. Personally, I'd much rather use Python+C or C++ then C# (and no C++/CLI isn't really C++).

Reply Score: 3