Linked by Thom Holwerda on Thu 16th Jun 2011 22:50 UTC, submitted by poundsmack
IBM "Today International Business Machines celebrated a relative rarity in the tech business - its one hundredth anniversary. By contrast Google is a mere 12 years old, Apple is 35, Microsoft is 36, and Hewlett-Packard is 72 years old." One of the most important companies in the computer industry. Congratulations, IBM, on to the next century! And we get to use our IBM logo for once. Yay!
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Balance the view
by spanglywires on Thu 16th Jun 2011 23:00 UTC
spanglywires
Member since:
2006-10-23
RE: Balance the view
by Drumhellar on Thu 16th Jun 2011 23:29 UTC in reply to "Balance the view"
Drumhellar Member since:
2005-07-12

I think that's the first time I've seen a discussion Godwin'd on the first post.

From the wiki article:

"Richard Bernstein, writing for The New York Times Book Review, wrote that Black's case "is long and heavily documented, and yet he does not demonstrate that IBM bears some unique or decisive responsibility for the evil that was done."[37] IBM quoted this claim in a March 2002 press release "Addendum to IBM Statement on Nazi-era Book and Lawsuit".[34]"

So, IBM sold Germany computers so they could conduct a census, prior to war breaking out, and prior to anybody knowing about the death camps. Saying they had a part in the holocaust is like saying a shoe company had a part because Nazi soldiers wore boots while rounding up civilians.

I think thrusting blame on any organization that is only indirectly and tenuously related such atrocities is petty. It devalues the victims, and devalues the lessons that need to be learned from such events.

Reply Score: 10

RE[2]: Balance the view
by spanglywires on Thu 16th Jun 2011 23:45 UTC in reply to "RE: Balance the view"
spanglywires Member since:
2006-10-23

'Godwin's law does not claim to articulate a fallacy; it is instead framed as a memetic tool to reduce the incidence of inappropriate hyperbolic comparisons'

The very uncontested situation that IBM colloborated knowingly or possibly (but less likely unknowingly) through a 90% owned subsiduary leaves at very least a serious question mark on corporate responsibility and management ethos.

As for the boot analogy, no, I wouldn't sell boots to to a genocidal dictator, its called a moral decision. Much as I won't buy products tested on animals, I avoid IBM hardware and software wherever I have the purchasing decision. That is a moral stance I have taken because I value the victims.

If you choose to sell your boots to genocidal dictators, that is your moral stance - I judge you not. After all, the B in IBM stands for business.

Reply Score: 4

RE[3]: Balance the view
by tylerdurden on Fri 17th Jun 2011 00:16 UTC in reply to "RE[2]: Balance the view"
tylerdurden Member since:
2009-03-17


If you choose to sell your boots to genocidal dictators, that is your moral stance - I judge you not.


Technically, you are indeed judging

Reply Score: 3

RE[3]: Balance the view
by christian on Fri 17th Jun 2011 10:36 UTC in reply to "RE[2]: Balance the view"
christian Member since:
2005-07-06


As for the boot analogy, no, I wouldn't sell boots to to a genocidal dictator, its called a moral decision. Much as I won't buy products tested on animals, I avoid IBM hardware and software wherever I have the purchasing decision. That is a moral stance I have taken because I value the victims.


I guess you avoid all German products as well? And Japanese products, they were really nasty in the war. And those nasty Allies, levelling several German cities killing civilians indiscriminately, along with the two atomic bombs also killing indiscriminately, I suppose rules you out of buying British and American products as well?

Reply Score: 2

RE[3]: Balance the view
by frajo on Fri 17th Jun 2011 10:40 UTC in reply to "RE[2]: Balance the view"
frajo Member since:
2007-06-29

As for the boot analogy, no, I wouldn't sell boots to to a genocidal dictator, its called a moral decision. Much as I won't buy products tested on animals, I avoid IBM hardware and software wherever I have the purchasing decision. That is a moral stance I have taken because I value the victims.

While I very much appreciate a strong moral stance, I can't resist to doubt its integrity. Where do you draw the line when doing purchasing decisions?
Is a government invading a country under false premises and effectively causing the death of hundreds of thousands of innocent people so much better that it doesn't deserve to be "avoided"? (And calling Hitler a "dictator" is somewhat misleading as he had the backing of the larger part of the Germans.)

Reply Score: 2

RE: Balance the view
by Neolander on Fri 17th Jun 2011 06:20 UTC in reply to "Balance the view"
Neolander Member since:
2010-03-08


*Achievement unlocked* : Instant Godwin

Reply Score: 7

Happy birthday Big Blue!
by obsidian on Thu 16th Jun 2011 23:41 UTC
obsidian
Member since:
2007-05-12

Always one of the most interesting companies with its research.

Edited 2011-06-16 23:44 UTC

Reply Score: 3

RE: Happy birthday Big Blue!
by tingo on Fri 17th Jun 2011 10:09 UTC in reply to "Happy birthday Big Blue! "
tingo Member since:
2007-10-13

Also a very interesting company to work for; where else can you have 430.000 colleagues worldwide (ok, I didn't connect with all of them), or round up 10.000 persons as beta testers for a solution in a couple of days?

I really enjoyed my time there.

Reply Score: 1

v Comment by MOS6510
by MOS6510 on Fri 17th Jun 2011 06:42 UTC
RE: Comment by MOS6510
by JAlexoid on Fri 17th Jun 2011 10:10 UTC in reply to "Comment by MOS6510"
JAlexoid Member since:
2009-05-19

IBM: We know better!

Reply Score: 2

RE: Comment by MOS6510
by Drumhellar on Fri 17th Jun 2011 17:57 UTC in reply to "Comment by MOS6510"
Drumhellar Member since:
2005-07-12

That gave me a good laugh.

Maybe their tech support doesn't have enough to do?

Reply Score: 2

RE[2]: Comment by MOS6510
by MOS6510 on Fri 17th Jun 2011 20:52 UTC in reply to "RE: Comment by MOS6510"
MOS6510 Member since:
2011-05-12

I indeed think they may not have much to do.

I'm not that fond of IBM as a company (party due to their website and Lotus Notes/Domino), but their hardware has never failed on me.

And the original IBM PC was kinda cool in a geeky and evil way. I liked the metal case and the also metal case badge. OS/2 was cool for its time. And the Thinkpad.

Reply Score: 1

RE[3]: Comment by MOS6510
by JAlexoid on Fri 17th Jun 2011 22:52 UTC in reply to "RE[2]: Comment by MOS6510"
JAlexoid Member since:
2009-05-19

They recently redesigned it. And it looks very good...

Reply Score: 2

An Orphaned Child
by frajo on Fri 17th Jun 2011 10:28 UTC
frajo
Member since:
2007-06-29

IBM has a lot of remarkable achievements since they are - unlike most other companies - doing basic research.
Personally I'm most impressed by the quality of OS/2 and the ThinkPad. (Although they abandoned their software child, it is still alive and serving me well.)

Reply Score: 1

creepy
by broken_symlink on Fri 17th Jun 2011 12:12 UTC
broken_symlink
Member since:
2005-07-06

The lasik picture in the article is creepy.

Reply Score: 3