Linked by Thom Holwerda on Tue 21st Jun 2011 20:14 UTC, submitted by vivainio
PDAs, Cellphones, Wireless Nokia may have gone with Windows Phone 7 for its future smartphone operating system, but until then, we now have the Nokia N9 to look at. Yes, a beautiful, top-of-the-line Nokia smartphone which runs MeeGo 1.2 Harmattan - but isn't this thing kind of a dead end? Also announced: the even prettier Nokia N950 Meego 1.2 developer device - only available to a limited number of developers. Sure to become a collectors' item.
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Beautiful
by ccraig13 on Tue 21st Jun 2011 20:37 UTC
ccraig13
Member since:
2011-05-31

Dang, that thing looks good!

Reply Score: 4

RE: Beautiful
by kamil_chatrnuch on Wed 22nd Jun 2011 10:39 UTC in reply to "Beautiful"
kamil_chatrnuch Member since:
2005-07-07

here some dev UX guidelines: http://www.developer.nokia.com/swipe/ux/

Reply Score: 2

Comment by frood
by frood on Tue 21st Jun 2011 20:39 UTC
frood
Member since:
2005-07-06

Yes, it's a dead end. But I'm going to get one anyway. Especially if it's as open as the N900.

Lack of MicroSD and front facing camera kinda sucks though.

Reply Score: 2

RE: Comment by frood
by ebasconp on Tue 21st Jun 2011 20:47 UTC in reply to "Comment by frood"
ebasconp Member since:
2006-05-09

As far as I have read, the N950 is as open as the N900; the N9 nop... anyway, the N950 will not be available for the common mortals (as me), but will be available only through the Nokia Developer Program.

Reply Score: 4

RE[2]: Comment by frood
by modmans2ndcoming on Wed 22nd Jun 2011 00:04 UTC in reply to "RE: Comment by frood"
modmans2ndcoming Member since:
2005-11-09

they have a developer program for a dead end product?

Reply Score: 2

RE[3]: Comment by frood
by JAlexoid on Wed 22nd Jun 2011 05:43 UTC in reply to "RE[2]: Comment by frood"
JAlexoid Member since:
2009-05-19

Some people labelling it "dead end product" does not make it dead end.

Reply Score: 6

RE[4]: Comment by frood
by modmans2ndcoming on Sat 25th Jun 2011 17:43 UTC in reply to "RE[3]: Comment by frood"
modmans2ndcoming Member since:
2005-11-09

would you prefer "Enthusiast Product" ?

Reply Score: 2

RE[2]: Comment by frood
by Daniel Borgmann on Wed 22nd Jun 2011 13:37 UTC in reply to "RE: Comment by frood"
Daniel Borgmann Member since:
2005-07-08

N950 and N9 run essentially the same software (which is the point of course), so I think it has to be said that both are equally "open".

The truth is, that it's probably not as open as the N900. It is based on an open source stack (including GUI libraries), but most applications and the home UI stack won't be open.

On the other hand you can "jailbreak" your phone by flipping a switch, and you could replace all the closed parts with open source alternatives while retaining compatibility.

Reply Score: 3

RE: Comment by frood
by kamil_chatrnuch on Tue 21st Jun 2011 21:02 UTC in reply to "Comment by frood"
kamil_chatrnuch Member since:
2005-07-07
This proves that Ellop lied ...
by jgfenix on Tue 21st Jun 2011 20:44 UTC
jgfenix
Member since:
2006-05-25

... about the reasons to chose WP7. He said that:
1)Meego wouldn´t be ready in time. They could have more phones released this year if they decided to do so (even before they WP7 ones are ready).
2)With WP7 they can differenciate themselves and Meego hasn´t enought appeal. They are WP7s from other companies but only Nokia has the Harmattan UI. I won´t say that it´s the best but it looks sexy and is attractive to the common folks.

Reply Score: 6

Thom_Holwerda Member since:
2005-06-29

This isn't the MeeGo Elop was talking about. The actual MeeGo can barely make a phonecall at this point.

Reply Score: 0

Bill Shooter of Bul Member since:
2006-07-14

Could you explain more or provide some background? Why is this not the Meego? That makes no sense to me. Was he talking about a future version?

Reply Score: 2

Not2Sure Member since:
2009-12-07

Making phonecalls just fine on the n900 meego 1.2 on ATT and TMobile GSM networks here in the US.

Your comment reeks of FUD, Thom.

Are you referring to meego 1.3 or something?

Reply Score: 3

Thom_Holwerda Member since:
2005-06-29

Making phonecalls just fine on the n900 meego 1.2 on ATT and TMobile GSM networks here in the US.

Your comment reeks of FUD, Thom.

Are you referring to meego 1.3 or something?


It's not FUD. Harmattan is NOT MeeGo. It's actually Maemo 6, and builds upon the excellent foundation of that product. It's only been REBADGED as MeeGo.

Reply Score: 3

ptman Member since:
2005-08-08

Can you provide links to more info about Harmattan? Is it still built on a Debian base like maemo? Or is it Moblin core with some of maemo on top of it? Is software packaging going to be .deb as for maemo or .rpm as for moblin?

Reply Score: 1

Daniel Borgmann Member since:
2005-07-08

Still Debian. It shares most APIs with MeeGo though.

Reply Score: 3

Damnshock Member since:
2006-09-15

"Making phonecalls just fine on the n900 meego 1.2 on ATT and TMobile GSM networks here in the US.

Your comment reeks of FUD, Thom.

Are you referring to meego 1.3 or something?


It's not FUD. Harmattan is NOT MeeGo. It's actually Maemo 6, and builds upon the excellent foundation of that product. It's only been REBADGED as MeeGo.
"

That's not what I found in here:

http://flors.wordpress.com/2011/06/20/nokia-n9-state-of-the-art-of-...

Nokia’s implementation of the MeeGo platform has been released. It combines a playful multitasking UX with an efficient OS that shares the same API and architecture pillars of MeeGo upstream. It’s a great demonstration of what can be done with the MeeGo platform on a mobile device. Check http://www.developer.nokia.com/swipe/ux/.

Reply Score: 1

vivainio Member since:
2008-12-26


That's not what I found in here:


Actually, Thom is right. Quim uses the word MeeGo in the loose sense of the word (that includes Harmattan) here.

Reply Score: 4

Damnshock Member since:
2006-09-15

"
That's not what I found in here:


Actually, Thom is right. Quim uses the word MeeGo in the loose sense of the word (that includes Harmattan) here.
"

As has been already asked... do you have links or anything to prove that?

Reply Score: 1

cdude Member since:
2008-09-21

http://press.nokia.com/wp-content/uploads/mediaplugin/doc/1-nokia-n... says OS: MeeGo 1.2 Harmatten. So it's MeeGo 1.2.

Reply Score: 1

j-kidd Member since:
2005-07-06

Here's a link for you:

http://achipa.blogspot.com/2010/03/danger-of-weak-branding-or-which...

Mappings between MeeGo number in the article and actual devices:

#1 -> ?
#2 -> N9
#3 -> Asus EeePC X101
#4 -> N900

Reply Score: 2

Not2Sure Member since:
2009-12-07

What is the "loose" sense of the term? Does it meet the Meego 1.2 compliance standard or not?

Reply Score: 1

Not2Sure Member since:
2009-12-07

I do not believe we are talking about the same thing.

This http://harmattan-dev.nokia.com/unstable/beta/api_refs/ is what (or will) constitutes the software on the N9 afaik and differs significantly from that found in PR 1.3 of maemo: http://wiki.maemo.org/Documentation/Maemo_5_Developer_Guide/Archite...

In addition that differs dramatically from the meego 1.2 compliant N900 community edition (which makes phone calls just fine for me): http://wiki.meego.com/ARM/N900/CE_Factsheet

As to whatever pie-in-sky "meego" barely making phone calls you are making reference to, can you please provide a link to some actual information or firsthand knowledge of its status? Are you talking about the status of 1.3? Thanks.

If Nokia wants to call what they ship on the N9 "meego" I guess we will see how that works out. Maybe it would have behooved them to name their OS and API code drops for product launch after candy or desserts to clear up confusion.

Reply Score: 3

j-kidd Member since:
2005-07-06

Making phonecalls just fine on the n900 meego 1.2 on ATT and TMobile GSM networks here in the US.

Your comment reeks of FUD, Thom.

Are you referring to meego 1.3 or something?


From http://wiki.meego.com/ARM/N900/Status

> Rings (very softly, even at max volume) and *sometimes* dialer does open, but does not meet the requirements for a primary device, cannot be heard/felt, in pocket.

> Dialers People page doesn't show contacts (bug #19586)

That qualifies as "barely able to make/receive calls", and yes, I do have it installed on my N900.

Reply Score: 2

JAlexoid Member since:
2009-05-19

Who cares on the tech side? The UI is Qt based and it works.

Reply Score: 3

RE: This proves that Ellop lied ...
by Radio on Wed 22nd Jun 2011 08:17 UTC in reply to "This proves that Ellop lied ..."
Radio Member since:
2009-06-20

I'm not a meego-basher, but when I read the caveats for the N950 (the phone to be sent ASAP to developpers):
http://www.fonearena.com/blog/39678/nokia-n950-available-exclusivel...

Nokia N950 device software Beta notes
=====================================

General:
* The Nokia N950 phone software is in beta stage and does not represent
the final quality or feature set which will be available when Nokia N9
is commercially available.
* If the device becomes unresponsive you can to perform a hardware reset.
Press the power key on top of the device and keep it pressed down for
8 or more seconds
* Certain types of use may drain the battery faster than normal.
* Across the UI there are still logical ID’s shown in some languages,
icons may not be finalized and animations with opening windows are
missing.
* Over-the-Air updates may not be available for the next software version.
* Gallery application may sometimes display ‘no items’
* Help (Info buttons) is disabled from this release
* There are many applications and services which are not available in
this beta release.
* Performance of all use cases has not been optimized yet
* Echo may be heard during some voice calls. This can be eliminated
by turning speakerphone on and off during the call.
* Chinese input method is not supported in this Beta release

Connectivity:
* The device may not always see all available WLAN’s (refresh)
* WLAN data transfer may stall off and on with WPA2/AES encryption.
* Bluetooth may not work when Device is connected to WAPI AP.
* The browser is unstable, has known rendering issues with sites.
The look and feel of the browser is not finalized yet.
* Using SB and transferring large amounts of data slows down device
and may long before content shows up in e.g. music player or video
player.


...Sorry, it is not ready.

Reply Score: 1

Daniel Borgmann Member since:
2005-07-08

As someone who has been working on Harmattan, Elop's decision has been incredibly frustrating and disappointing of course.

However, I am getting really tired of this "Elop lied" argument. Whether or not he made the right decision remains to be seen, but there is no clear indication that given the circumstances and information he was faced with, he didn't made a sensible decision.

Your arguments are as flawed as most others in this regard:

1) Getting the OS ready to be released on one phone is one thing, having the capability and time to support it on a wide range of phones is a very different thing. Nokia is no Apple, which can survive on one phone a year or less. Additionally, while a Nokia Windows Phone is not out yet, at least WP7 has been around for a while and is steadily growing its ecosystem.

2) These were arguments for choosing WP7 over Android. Elop never stated differentiation or appeal as the reason for going with WP7 over MeeGo. This is how statements are getting mixed up to create popular semi-truths.

What's done is done. The N9 is an amazing phone, and I am confident that it will do well in markets which are not entirely in the grip of the iOS or Android ecosystems (yes, they exist). It's a phone for those who want one of the neatest phones of the next couple of years or so, not for those who want to invest heavily in apps and get tied down to a specific ecosystem.

When the N9 eventually becomes obsolete, there will be something worthy to replace it. What it will be... We'll just have to see. Perhaps a Nokia running WP9. ;)

Reply Score: 3

Dead-end how-so?
by Not2Sure on Tue 21st Jun 2011 21:17 UTC
Not2Sure
Member since:
2009-12-07

What exactly do you mean by dead-end?

That this was a false product announcment that will never see store shelves? I don't find that likely but Nokia never ceases to surprise.

That once launched this product will never receive updates OTA or via flasher? I also find that extremely unlikely but then again I could see Elop-esque tactics at work to ensure the death of the platform inside Nokia once and for all (ala "see meego hurts our customers time to circle the wagons on WP7 once and for all").

That there will be no apps created for the device? This I think might be arguable. I am certainly no longer interested in devoting developer hours to the platform after Nokia marketing execs pretty much straight-up lied to evangelists and developers. I gotta believe others share my feelings.

However, when it comes to the opportunity cost of not doing it if Nokia moves alot of these devices, it seems like the delta of getting a qt app from a symbian/Anna device like the N8 to this device is quite small. So to not do it would require some serious animus.

Still, the work involved in translating a more pure "symbian" app I would doubt anyone is going to sign up for. Time will tell.

Reply Score: 1

RE: Dead-end how-so?
by Bill Shooter of Bul on Tue 21st Jun 2011 21:23 UTC in reply to "Dead-end how-so?"
Bill Shooter of Bul Member since:
2006-07-14

I think he means dead end as in, the first and last generally available device running Meego on Arm as a phone. None of that is official, but that seems to be the direction things are headed.

Reply Score: 4

RE[2]: Dead-end how-so?
by Not2Sure on Tue 21st Jun 2011 22:37 UTC in reply to "RE: Dead-end how-so?"
Not2Sure Member since:
2009-12-07

In marketing speak, I think dead-end in that sense means, the culmination of years of engineering excellence! ;-)

It does bring up an interesting point though. I wonder how many people that are not Apple customers buy a phone based on the notion that there will be a next.x release of the same phone when either their contract expires or they next want to upgrade (in six months lol!)

I don't think brand loyalty really plays a significant role as it used to in consumer smartphone decisions. They seem to graivate to whatever is shiny at the moment, but I could be way out of touch. I own about 12 models so I'm not a good reference point ;)

Edited 2011-06-21 22:38 UTC

Reply Score: 3

RE[3]: Dead-end how-so?
by Praxis on Tue 21st Jun 2011 23:25 UTC in reply to "RE[2]: Dead-end how-so?"
Praxis Member since:
2009-09-17


It does bring up an interesting point though. I wonder how many people that are not Apple customers buy a phone based on the notion that there will be a next.x release of the same phone when either their contract expires or they next want to upgrade (in six months lol!)


Its not just about the hardware, its the ecosystem. Sure its nice to know that you'll be getting updates, and its even nicer to know that you'll be able to upgrade to a familiar device later on. But its mostly about the apps, and games, you can't forget the games because smartphone are primarly entertainment devices these days. But if developers doubt your commitment to the platform, why will they develop for it. Very few people will want a smartphone if it doesn't have the apps they are used to. Are many developers still interested in Meego know that they know Nokia won't be throwing all its muscle behind it. Its a side project at best now.

Reply Score: 2

RE[4]: Dead-end how-so?
by Not2Sure on Wed 22nd Jun 2011 00:06 UTC in reply to "RE[3]: Dead-end how-so?"
Not2Sure Member since:
2009-12-07

Just curious, can you name an app that you use consistently on your current platform that isnt available or as a clone with matching feature set on the 3 other major platforms that would prevent you from purchasing?

Reply Score: 1

RE[4]: Dead-end how-so?
by No it isnt on Wed 22nd Jun 2011 12:10 UTC in reply to "RE[3]: Dead-end how-so?"
No it isnt Member since:
2005-11-14

I've got an android phone, and I'd happily switch to the N9 if the price is right. The apps themselves aren't or shouldn't be important, the capabilities are. Meego, from what I've seen, is highly capable in itself, with a proper GNU userspace, whereas Android isn't all that powerful and really depends on the applications to do every little thing.

Besides, it's built on Qt, so much of KDE should be easily adaptable to the platform. And it's got ScummVM.

Reply Score: 3

RE[2]: Dead-end how-so?
by dsmogor on Wed 22nd Jun 2011 10:39 UTC in reply to "RE: Dead-end how-so?"
dsmogor Member since:
2005-09-01

Nothing was yet announced, but meego labbeled as system for "future disruption" will be kept around.
As for N9, if the get their act together and squash remaining bugs before release it might have a good chance to sell to nokia loyalist.
It just need to have better gui and basic functionality than Symbian, and from what I saw on the videos it does just that.

And if it sells well, there's a chance Nokia internal "own os" lobby will gain traction enough to revive the line.

Reply Score: 2

RE[3]: Dead-end how-so?
by Bill Shooter of Bul on Wed 22nd Jun 2011 11:54 UTC in reply to "RE[2]: Dead-end how-so?"
Bill Shooter of Bul Member since:
2006-07-14

Nokia Loyalists? I don't think there are enough of those to prevent the n9 from failing to sell significant quantities.
Two additional Ifs also required, including a complete shift in corporate strategy. It *could* happen, but it looks pretty unlikely.

Reply Score: 2

RE[4]: Dead-end how-so?
by Junglist on Wed 22nd Jun 2011 14:17 UTC in reply to "RE[3]: Dead-end how-so?"
Junglist Member since:
2007-09-07

Nokia Loyalists? I don't think there are enough of those to prevent the n9 from failing to sell significant quantities.


I think people frequently forget that the US of A is not really Nokia's bread & butter. The reason that MS wanted in bed with them was so they could push WP7 as a mobile platform to all the other countries that have Nokia phones that are just making the jump to smart phones.

Reply Score: 2

RE[5]: Dead-end how-so?
by Bill Shooter of Bul on Wed 22nd Jun 2011 15:36 UTC in reply to "RE[4]: Dead-end how-so?"
Bill Shooter of Bul Member since:
2006-07-14

No, I didn't forget that the USA is not Nokia's best market, although I am US based. I don't think there are enough, even in Europe and Asia. The thing would have to sell to people beyond the die hard crowd in order to convince the company to change its policies. Because, if the die hard crowd was enough, they'd never have to leave symbian.

Reply Score: 2

RE[6]: Dead-end how-so?
by dsmogor on Wed 22nd Jun 2011 19:42 UTC in reply to "RE[5]: Dead-end how-so?"
dsmogor Member since:
2005-09-01

A lot of people just want a mightly sleek, modern phone that does the (smartphone) basics well: typing, web, social , mmedia, camera, navigation (with last 2 being industry top). You may compare the innards to Galaxy II but, for nongeeks the look is actually quite important factor and N9 beats S royally here.
Also count the n900 lovers(1mo is not a small number for a single device) who longed for an upgrade.
Note that a supply of last gen qt symbian apps will be trivially portable to the platform, so with some substantial sales for the device number of devs may actually come to the "why not" conclusion. N9 being a single device in 2011 actually works to its advantage here.
The N8 reviews noted just wanted Nokia industrial design with a better software. Here it is.

Edited 2011-06-22 19:46 UTC

Reply Score: 4

RE[7]: Dead-end how-so?
by Bill Shooter of Bul on Wed 22nd Jun 2011 22:32 UTC in reply to "RE[6]: Dead-end how-so?"
Bill Shooter of Bul Member since:
2006-07-14

You may compare the innards to Galaxy II but, for nongeeks the look is actually quite important factor and N9 beats S royally here.


Yes, I agree non Geeks and non loyalists would have to purchase it in significant numbers. No, I do not think that is likely. Now, would I purchase it? Yes, in a heartbeat ... if it came with a subsidy from my carrier.

Reply Score: 2

RE[5]: Dead-end how-so?
by Not2Sure on Wed 22nd Jun 2011 16:27 UTC in reply to "RE[4]: Dead-end how-so?"
Not2Sure Member since:
2009-12-07

And vice versa. I imagine we won't see the N9 sold anywhere in the US as Nokia attempts to "reboot" its image/relationship with the carriers as the premier WP7 OEM or something.

Probably also why the X7 was announced by ATT in the US but was never actually sold to my knowledge.

Reply Score: 2

RE: Dead-end how-so?
by Praxis on Tue 21st Jun 2011 22:38 UTC in reply to "Dead-end how-so?"
Praxis Member since:
2009-09-17

Its a dead end because Nokia execs keep calling it a dead end. All Elop has been saying is WP7 WP7 WP7 since February. He pretty much said that all of our products suck and WP7 is the future of the company. But oh by the way those aren't ready yet so please buy our symbian and meego phones, they are completely unrelated to WP7 and have incompatable app ecosystems but you should still buy them anyway for some reason.

I have no faith in Nokia's commitment to non-WP7 platforms, because the top brass of the company has shown nothing but disdain for them. All we've had saying otherwise are company blog posts from the QT, Meego and Symbian teams basically saying 'we aren't dead yet' and not much else. But really would they be allowed to say anything else. What will Nokia be saying once they finally ship a WP7 device and don't have to worry about killing interest in their other product lines anymore. It will take more than a token product release to fill a gaping hole in their release schudule for me to trust them again.

Reply Score: 3

RE[2]: Dead-end how-so?
by Not2Sure on Tue 21st Jun 2011 22:47 UTC in reply to "RE: Dead-end how-so?"
Not2Sure Member since:
2009-12-07

Yeah I hear that.

But a profitable line of business is just that. Just because it will not be the "flagship" WP7 lineup, I would find it difficult to believe that Elop would be allowed by the Nokia board to simply jettison a profitable model and all the expertise and talent that goes along with it.

All that is predicated on the the N9 being a success of course. Who knows, but I'm like you I think in that I'm not sure I care anymore. Part of my attraction to Nokia in the spirit of competitiveness was always as an EU counterbalance to the Cupertino/Silicon Valley (all innovation happens here) mentality. I think that is pretty much gone from the corporate spirit regardless.

Reply Score: 2

RE[2]: Dead-end how-so?
by lemur2 on Wed 22nd Jun 2011 00:05 UTC in reply to "RE: Dead-end how-so?"
lemur2 Member since:
2007-02-17

All we've had saying otherwise are company blog posts from the QT, Meego and Symbian teams basically saying 'we aren't dead yet' and not much else.


Actually, there have been new releases of Qt and Meego since Nokia's WP7 announcement.

There is also the Calligra Active project, which is due for release in October, which uses QML and hence integrates with Meego. This project will deliver MS Office and OpenDocument (ODF) integration to non-WP7 mobiles (tablets and phones).

http://www.calligra-suite.org/news/calligra-announces-second-snapsh...
There is a video of it running here:
http://aseigo.blogspot.com/2011/04/plasma-active-calligra-active.ht...
"The file format compatibility with Open Document Format and Microsoft's Office Open XML is some of the best to be found in a mobile form factor."

So, in truth, they really aren't dead yet.

But its mostly about the apps, and games, you can't forget the games because smartphone are primarly entertainment devices these days. But if developers doubt your commitment to the platform, why will they develop for it. Very few people will want a smartphone if it doesn't have the apps they are used to. Are many developers still interested in Meego know that they know Nokia won't be throwing all its muscle behind it. Its a side project at best now.


The development is covered by QML. QML apps will run on Meego and also on Android.

http://mynokiablog.com/2011/02/28/video-qt-for-android-comes-to-alp...

Demo:
http://www.meegoexperts.com/2010/12/super-mario-demo-pure-qml/

Tutorial:
http://qt.nokia.com/developer/learning/online/training/training-day...

Guide:
http://labs.qt.nokia.com/2010/08/12/a-guide-to-writing-games-with-q...

Enjoy.

Edited 2011-06-22 00:19 UTC

Reply Score: 4

RE: Dead-end how-so?
by Daniel Borgmann on Wed 22nd Jun 2011 14:05 UTC in reply to "Dead-end how-so?"
Daniel Borgmann Member since:
2005-07-08

However, when it comes to the opportunity cost of not doing it if Nokia moves alot of these devices, it seems like the delta of getting a qt app from a symbian/Anna device like the N8 to this device is quite small. So to not do it would require some serious animus.


Moreover, the N9 is likely to shift a respectable number. Write an application for it with Qt, and "downscaling" it to Nokia's other devices is fairly straight-forward.

This will give you a respectable market, that is also fairly untapped. Add to this that Qt's future in Nokia is really not that bleak, with S40 being thrown into the mix and who knows what else. Practically everything that is not served by WP will be Qt based. It may be unclear if there will be other high-end Nokia smartphones in the medium to distant future, but few people plan so far ahead anyways.

No, I don't see it's appstore ever rivalling the "big three". But I don't see it being a completely barren wasteland either.

Reply Score: 2

RE[2]: Dead-end how-so?
by vivainio on Wed 22nd Jun 2011 14:27 UTC in reply to "RE: Dead-end how-so?"
vivainio Member since:
2008-12-26

It may be unclear if there will be other high-end Nokia smartphones in the medium to distant future, but few people plan so far ahead anyways.


There are pretty well specced Symbian phones coming out as well.

Reply Score: 2

Qt
by vivainio on Tue 21st Jun 2011 21:27 UTC
vivainio
Member since:
2008-12-26

Note that while Nokia won't be churning out Harmattan devices after N9, the real "platform" for Nokia is Qt, and this device is in Qt family. So developers can create a QML app and run it on:

- 250 million (current projection) Symbian devices, supported until 2016

- N9 (an "aspirational" flagship device)

- Future "next billion" devices - Marco Argenti (my boss, incidentally) announced on Nokia Connections yesterday that Qt will be the development platform for future low end devices. This is a big deal.

Reply Score: 8

RE: Qt
by kragil on Tue 21st Jun 2011 23:15 UTC in reply to "Qt"
kragil Member since:
2006-01-04

OK, this is interesting. So the N9 is basically Maemo + Meego compatibility (to some extend.)
And there won't be a new Maemo device or no new Meego/Linux device?

And what's up with the "future disruption" stuff? The only thing that makes sense here is Meego.

Do you know more specifics? Is the N9 still MeeGo Touch Framework based? Or just QML?

Will the S40 Qt be stripped down?

Reply Score: 2

RE[2]: Qt
by vivainio on Wed 22nd Jun 2011 05:58 UTC in reply to "RE: Qt"
vivainio Member since:
2008-12-26

OK, this is interesting. So the N9 is basically Maemo + Meego compatibility (to some extend.)


Yeah.

And there won't be a new Maemo device or no new Meego/Linux device?


Public plan is not to have new phones based on Harmattan, nor new phones based on "real MeeGo".


And what's up with the "future disruption" stuff? The only thing that makes sense here is Meego.


Still secret.

Do you know more specifics? Is the N9 still MeeGo Touch Framework based? Or just QML?


Some apps still written in MTF, some QML. Third parties should only use QML.

Will the S40 Qt be stripped down?


The plans around Qt & Next Billion are still secret. Nobody has said it's S40, for example.

Reply Score: 6

RE[3]: Qt
by ThomasFuhringer on Wed 22nd Jun 2011 12:33 UTC in reply to "RE[2]: Qt"
ThomasFuhringer Member since:
2007-01-25

Do they still have X.org in the stack?

Reply Score: 1

RE[4]: Qt
by vivainio on Wed 22nd Jun 2011 13:13 UTC in reply to "RE[3]: Qt"
vivainio Member since:
2008-12-26

Do they still have X.org in the stack?


Yes.

Reply Score: 2

RE[5]: Qt
by Not2Sure on Wed 22nd Jun 2011 16:33 UTC in reply to "RE[4]: Qt"
Not2Sure Member since:
2009-12-07

No. X.org is not on the roadmap for Meego. Wayland is being integrated into 1.3 currently.

Please try to use current information.

Edited 2011-06-22 16:34 UTC

Reply Score: 1

RE[6]: Qt
by vivainio on Wed 22nd Jun 2011 16:37 UTC in reply to "RE[5]: Qt"
vivainio Member since:
2008-12-26

No. X.org is not on the roadmap for Meego. Wayland is being integrated into 1.3 currently.


N9 has Harmattan, which has X.org in the stack.

MeeGo 1.3 is besides the point, N9 does not have that.

Reply Score: 3

RE[7]: Qt
by Not2Sure on Wed 22nd Jun 2011 16:57 UTC in reply to "RE[6]: Qt"
Not2Sure Member since:
2009-12-07

I could care about $0.01 US about the N9. The Meego platform roadmap is Wayland not X based.

But you're right I probably misunderstood the prior poster's question. I thought he was interested in the Meego platform in general not the Nokia N9 specifically. Thanks.

Reply Score: 1

RE[3]: Qt
by broken_symlink on Wed 22nd Jun 2011 12:35 UTC in reply to "RE[2]: Qt"
broken_symlink Member since:
2005-07-06

"OK, this is interesting. So the N9 is basically Maemo + Meego compatibility (to some extend.)


Yeah.
"

Based on this, the N9 seems like the device that should have come out like 2 years ago.

Reply Score: 3

RE[3]: Qt
by Not2Sure on Wed 22nd Jun 2011 16:31 UTC in reply to "RE[2]: Qt"
Not2Sure Member since:
2009-12-07

I am getting extremely uncomfortable with the way people are throwing the term "meego" around.

Bunch of marketing people and now pseudo-engineers on tech blogs.

There are compliance documents and standards. If the N9 distribution does not meet those requirements then there are going to be some problems very quickly.

Does anyone here pretending to talk knowledgeably about the N9 or N950 have one?

Reply Score: 1

RE[4]: Qt
by vivainio on Wed 22nd Jun 2011 16:41 UTC in reply to "RE[3]: Qt"
vivainio Member since:
2008-12-26


There are compliance documents and standards. If the N9 distribution does not meet those requirements then there are going to be some problems very quickly.


Harmattan is "MeeGo enough", in terms of API's. Calling it MeeGo is something that benefits both Nokia and Intel. Developers easily learn the difference. So just let it go.


Does anyone here pretending to talk knowledgeably about the N9 or N950 have one?


I've been in possession of N950 prototype[s] for a long time.

Reply Score: 3

RE[5]: Qt
by Not2Sure on Wed 22nd Jun 2011 16:45 UTC in reply to "RE[4]: Qt"
Not2Sure Member since:
2009-12-07

Cool can you archive up a ls -lr for me?

Reply Score: 1

RE[6]: Qt
by vivainio on Wed 22nd Jun 2011 16:48 UTC in reply to "RE[5]: Qt"
vivainio Member since:
2008-12-26

Cool can you archive up a ls -lr for me?


Why don't you download the SDK and check stuff yourself?

Either install Qt SDK and experimental harmattan target, or grab the scratchbox based one:

http://harmattan-dev.nokia.com/Introduction.html

Reply Score: 2

RE[7]: Qt
by Not2Sure on Wed 22nd Jun 2011 16:59 UTC in reply to "RE[6]: Qt"
Not2Sure Member since:
2009-12-07

Oh, so to check the compliance of a shipping device I should check the compliance of an SDK.

That makes good sense to someone I'm sure. Never mind, I will get some help from actual people. To IRC!

Reply Score: 1

RE[5]: Qt
by Not2Sure on Wed 22nd Jun 2011 16:50 UTC in reply to "RE[4]: Qt"
Not2Sure Member since:
2009-12-07



Harmattan is "MeeGo enough", in terms of API's. Calling it MeeGo is something that benefits both Nokia and Intel. Developers easily learn the difference. So just let it go.


Oh, so Meego is only to be used by Nokia and Intel. Thanks got it. And for the record are you speaking authoritatively for or on behalf of the Meego TSG which put work into and published the Meego compliance document?

Compliance documents and standards are there for a reason. To prevent the dilution of the name trademarked by the Linux Foundation and so that applications written for Meego run on ANY meego device.

So, I probably won't let it go, thanks though. Hopefully the N9 does actually meet the 1.2 compliance standards.

Reply Score: 0

RE[6]: Qt
by Bill Shooter of Bul on Wed 22nd Jun 2011 22:41 UTC in reply to "RE[5]: Qt"
Bill Shooter of Bul Member since:
2006-07-14

Oh, so Meego is only to be used by Nokia and Intel. Thanks got it.


Nokia & Intel => Meego
Like
Novell => Open Suse

They are the backing companies which have paid for a significant chunk of the development of the platform. The platform won't succeed as well as it could if it reflects badly on the primary backers. The backers need to release *something* somewhat successful and call it Meego. If they don't they may lose support from with their own ranks to support the platform ( Nokia pretty much already has because of the delays). Give 'em a break would ya

Reply Score: 2

RE[3]: Qt
by j-kidd on Wed 22nd Jun 2011 23:35 UTC in reply to "RE[2]: Qt"
j-kidd Member since:
2005-07-06

Public plan is not to have new phones based on Harmattan, nor new phones based on "real MeeGo".


So Maemo 7 it is? I can always dream ;)

Reply Score: 2

RE: Qt
by ebasconp on Tue 21st Jun 2011 23:54 UTC in reply to "Qt"
ebasconp Member since:
2006-05-09

So developers can create a QML app and run it on:

- 250 million (current projection) Symbian devices, supported until 2016

- N9 (an "aspirational" flagship device)

- Future "next billion" devices - Marco Argenti (my boss, incidentally) announced on Nokia Connections yesterday that Qt will be the development platform for future low end devices. This is a big deal.


Is N900 with Maemo 5 also in the "Qt platform"?

Reply Score: 2

RE[2]: Qt
by Not2Sure on Wed 22nd Jun 2011 00:09 UTC in reply to "RE: Qt"
Not2Sure Member since:
2009-12-07

Qt 4.7 and Qt Mobility 1.02 were part of the PR 1.3 release for the N900. The latest "official" Nokia release.

Reply Score: 2

RE[2]: Qt
by vivainio on Wed 22nd Jun 2011 05:53 UTC in reply to "RE: Qt"
vivainio Member since:
2008-12-26


Is N900 with Maemo 5 also in the "Qt platform"?


Yes, but sort of in the "legacy" category (most maemo developers will probably start focusing on N9). N900 runs QML apps great (better than Symbian^3 phones actually).

You also can't buy N900 anymore.

Reply Score: 2

RE[3]: Qt
by ebasconp on Wed 22nd Jun 2011 11:11 UTC in reply to "RE[2]: Qt"
ebasconp Member since:
2006-05-09

...and, though speculating, do you think nokia will start to sell N950 units later on?

Reply Score: 2

RE[4]: Qt
by vivainio on Wed 22nd Jun 2011 12:11 UTC in reply to "RE[3]: Qt"
vivainio Member since:
2008-12-26

...and, though speculating, do you think nokia will start to sell N950 units later on?


N950 will not be sold. You have to earn it ;-).

Reply Score: 2

RE: Qt
by shmerl on Wed 22nd Jun 2011 06:14 UTC in reply to "Qt"
shmerl Member since:
2010-06-08

Qt on S40?

Reply Score: 2

RE[2]: Qt
by Neolander on Wed 22nd Jun 2011 07:11 UTC in reply to "RE: Qt"
Neolander Member since:
2010-03-08

From viviano's posts, we don't know if it's s40 yet, and he won't tell us because of trade secrets and things like that. It's for low-end Nokia devices, either current or future, period. For all we know, Nokia could as well make all their lower-end phones run Symbian and throw s40 away altogether. In fact, that would be a very interesting move, if modern low-end hardware is really up to it (Which I doubt. There's enough "out of memory" warnings on mid-end Symbian phones already, unless they've heavily optimized things).

Edited 2011-06-22 07:14 UTC

Reply Score: 1

Collector's item
by AdamW on Wed 22nd Jun 2011 03:26 UTC
AdamW
Member since:
2005-07-06

The N950 is unlikely to be much of a collector's item, as it's being distributed on a loan basis: you don't own it, Nokia lends it to you. So you can't turn around and sell it on eBay.

Reply Score: 2

Comment by shmerl
by shmerl on Wed 22nd Jun 2011 06:11 UTC
shmerl
Member since:
2010-06-08

A pity that the UI is closed source, and chances are low that Nokia will ever open it for the Meego community.

Reply Score: 2

Comment by Radio
by Radio on Wed 22nd Jun 2011 09:09 UTC
Radio
Member since:
2009-06-20

The list of countries Nokia N9 will be available are

Austria
Bulgaria
China
Croatia
Finland
Greece
Hong Kong
Hungary
Malaysia
New Zealand
Portugal
Poland
Romania
Russia
Saudi Arabia
Serbia
Singapore
Slovenia
Sweden
Switzerland
UAE
Vietnam


...no comment.

Reply Score: 2

RE: Comment by Radio
by Thom_Holwerda on Wed 22nd Jun 2011 09:26 UTC in reply to "Comment by Radio"
Thom_Holwerda Member since:
2005-06-29

That list is incomplete, as The Netherlands is supposed to get it too. Weird.

Edited 2011-06-22 09:27 UTC

Reply Score: 1

RE: Comment by Radio
by chekr on Wed 22nd Jun 2011 10:39 UTC in reply to "Comment by Radio"
chekr Member since:
2005-11-05

New Zealand but not Australia...wtf!?

Reply Score: 2

RE: Comment by Radio
by dsmogor on Wed 22nd Jun 2011 11:12 UTC in reply to "Comment by Radio"
dsmogor Member since:
2005-09-01

Looks like Elop excluded places where he hopes to make biggest splash WP7 debut, not to have those devices canibalise each other and possibly confuse customers. That's good for his strategy, but is it good for Nokia in general?

Edited 2011-06-22 11:13 UTC

Reply Score: 2

Hardware keyboard?
by Lava_Croft on Wed 22nd Jun 2011 14:46 UTC
Lava_Croft
Member since:
2006-12-24

It seems to a lack a hardware keyboard, which basically negates the main benefit that Maemo had and now Meego has over the 'competition': One can use it more like the proper PC that Maemo/Meego wants to be, instead of like a phone that got smart. How will I be able to properly operate X-Term without a hardware keyboard?

Overall it's a beautiful, minimalistic design. Especially the sharp corners are an artistically clever way to differentiate from the iPhone and it's wannabe follower smartphones.

Edited 2011-06-22 14:49 UTC

Reply Score: 2