Linked by Thom Holwerda on Wed 6th Jul 2011 15:41 UTC
Internet & Networking "Members of the European Parliament have demanded to know what lawmakers intend to do about the conflict between the European Union's Data Protection Directive and the U.S. Patriot Act. The issue has been raised following Microsoft's admission last week that it may have to hand over European customers' data on a new cloud service to U.S. authorities. The company may also be compelled by the Patriot Act to keep details of any such data transfer secret. This is directly contrary to the European directive, which states that organizations must inform users when they disclose personal information."
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[For Sale]
by senshikaze on Wed 6th Jul 2011 16:46 UTC
senshikaze
Member since:
2011-03-08

(your information)

Anyone want to sponsor me moving to Europe?

Reply Score: 3

RE: [For Sale]
by silviucc on Wed 6th Jul 2011 17:40 UTC in reply to "[For Sale]"
silviucc Member since:
2009-12-05

Relax, Sarkozy & Co are hard at work on turning the EU into US ver 2.0. Now with more citizen surveillance and eavesdropping.

Reply Score: 6

RE[2]: [For Sale]
by vitae on Thu 7th Jul 2011 22:50 UTC in reply to "RE: [For Sale]"
vitae Member since:
2006-02-20

What about Italy? Plenty of beaches. Good food.

Then again, a nice little cottage in Bavaria might be nice.

Reply Score: 2

Comment by ronaldst
by ronaldst on Wed 6th Jul 2011 17:40 UTC
ronaldst
Member since:
2005-06-29

The Cloud = disaster waiting to happen.

Your stuff on a 3rd party server becomes their stuff
Your stuff on your own server is still your stuff

Reply Score: 13

RE: Comment by ronaldst
by arpan on Wed 6th Jul 2011 20:43 UTC in reply to "Comment by ronaldst"
arpan Member since:
2006-07-30

You sure about that?

http://blog.instapaper.com/post/6830514157

Or did you mean a server in your own office?

Reply Score: 2

RE[2]: Comment by ronaldst
by ronaldst on Wed 6th Jul 2011 20:47 UTC in reply to "RE: Comment by ronaldst"
ronaldst Member since:
2005-06-29

By own server I mean in your home/office.

Reply Score: 2

RE: Comment by ronaldst
by Not2Sure on Thu 7th Jul 2011 07:28 UTC in reply to "Comment by ronaldst"
Not2Sure Member since:
2009-12-07

Amen. So much hype so little value.

I do think the sourcing of code and tools like the OpenStack effort has at least been worthwhile for the creation of private availibiliyt clusters. I mean, it doesn't live up to the "cloud" hype machine but definitely useful base on which to build rather than from scratch.

Reply Score: 1

RE: Comment by ronaldst
by vodoomoth on Fri 8th Jul 2011 13:30 UTC in reply to "Comment by ronaldst"
vodoomoth Member since:
2010-03-30

True Gospel-speak.

Reply Score: 2

RE: Comment by ronaldst
by grimshaid on Fri 8th Jul 2011 19:44 UTC in reply to "Comment by ronaldst"
grimshaid Member since:
2010-10-28

I've never trusted the cloud based services, and this is one more reason to validate that distrust. Giving your data to someone else to hold is rather like volunteering to be a hostage.

Reply Score: 2

I don't understand the upset
by perlchild on Wed 6th Jul 2011 17:58 UTC
perlchild
Member since:
2010-03-27

That microsoft admits they feel limited that way is the proper thing to do. I imagine the ones that are upset are the cloud companies, the OTHER american companies, that didn't admit to their european customers that they would comply with US law above EU law because they were in the us, regardless if it was a US or EU citizen, despite the fact the contract they display to a EU citizen might give a hint otherwise.

There's a simple solution to this, charge a tax for cloud services in the US, put the cash in a trust. Use the trust to legislate the briefs off Microsoft or any other US cloud provider that thinks they can flout EU law.

See them lobby to get the patriot act changed, at LEAST in removing that nasty, and IMHO contrary to checks and balances "can be done in secret" provision to the law. Then the US cloud providers can comply with EU law, and the EU law "can" remove the tax.

(1) We know no government ever willingly removes a tax, but that's what lobbying is for.

Reply Score: 1

RE: I don't understand the upset
by pgeorgi on Wed 6th Jul 2011 19:46 UTC in reply to "I don't understand the upset"
pgeorgi Member since:
2010-02-18

There's a simple solution to this, charge a tax for cloud services in the US, put the cash in a trust.

There is a simpler solution: If US companies can't implement EU law for EU operations because their laws at home collide, they have to cease providing services in the EU until they fixed the laws (by lobbying).
That's more opportunities for EU companies to step in.

Of course, just like with SWIFT (who moved data centers to the EU for EU transactions to evade US surveillance), the US will quickly lobby to get "legal" access to them.

Reply Score: 5

Comment by mutantsushi
by mutantsushi on Wed 6th Jul 2011 23:14 UTC
mutantsushi
Member since:
2006-08-18

What is Microsoft´s problem here?
What is stopping them from running a wholly-owned subsidiary in EU jurisdiction, that handles all servers, etc, for it´s users? US requests Patriot shake-down: That info isn´t subject to US requests, as it´s wholly located in EU jurisdiction. US Patriot Act to my knowledge (yes, that´s a big black hole obviously, with ´secret interpretations´ and all) does not impede or impose penalties on US corporations which invest in foreign businesses which aren´t subject to US law. I mean, I guess it should also be mentioned how pretty much all US tech companies are in bed with the National Security State, etc, and so wouldn´t WANT to do such a horrible thing, but it seems like there´s a pretty easy legal out for MS in this case IF THEY WANTED TO PARTAKE OF IT...???

Reply Score: 4

Comment by ichi
by ichi on Thu 7th Jul 2011 15:29 UTC
ichi
Member since:
2007-03-06

Since US companies operating in EU are doing so under EU laws, it's up to them (and not to EU lawmakers) to find a solution.

If they infringe EU's laws, punish them accordingly.

It's not (or rather, shouldn't be) EU's problem if the US has some weird laws.

Reply Score: 7

Disclosure, at least.
by Bill Shooter of Bul on Thu 7th Jul 2011 17:38 UTC
Bill Shooter of Bul
Member since:
2006-07-14

Its much better, IMHO, that Microsoft is telling everyone up front that the patriot act may come into play. Lets everyone plan accordingly. Just because something doesn't fall under the patriot act, doesn't mean intelligence agencies aren't already taking a peek at the data. And I'm fairly certain, they have been for some time.

The basic fact remains: if you don't want something to be public, don't allow it to be put on the web, to the best of your abilities.

Reply Score: 6

RE: Disclosure, at least.
by vodoomoth on Fri 8th Jul 2011 13:32 UTC in reply to "Disclosure, at least. "
vodoomoth Member since:
2010-03-30

The basic fact remains: if you don't want something to be public, don't allow it to be put on the web, to the best of your abilities.

I think this gospel needs to be heard more often, just to counter the ludicrous hype over "the cloud".

Reply Score: 3