Linked by David Adams on Fri 5th Aug 2011 16:38 UTC, submitted by tjavailable
Linux Linux on the desktop seems to be the perennial second class citizen, but with Adobe's upcoming 64 Bit Flash 11 beta, Linux is getting a seat at the adults' table. It's being released for Windows, Mac, and Linux simultaneously.
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adobe released flash11 beta month ago
by ulrus on Fri 5th Aug 2011 17:19 UTC
ulrus
Member since:
2009-11-26

old news repost, Flash Player 64bit for Linux released 13 jul.
http://blogs.adobe.com/flashplayer/2011/07/adobe-air-3-and-flash-pl...

Reply Score: 4

hackus Member since:
2006-06-28

Yeah, and the idiots still can't figure out how to use DRI and complain how it is technically not possible to accelerate graphics on the LINUX side.

Meanwhile every program I have is DRI accelerated with the latest 7.11 Mesa libs.

I want Flash to go away. Even better take Adobe with it.

They make crap and blow up more browser pages than any single plugin on the internet that Apple goes to great lengths to also avoid Adobe products.

Go go HTML 5 for Video and Audio on the net!

-Hack

Reply Score: 10

Comment by kaiwai
by kaiwai on Sat 6th Aug 2011 01:26 UTC
kaiwai
Member since:
2005-07-06

I really do hope they fix the bugs that Flash has with Lion - play a video using Flash an on the rare occasion the whole screen freezes yet you can move the cursor around (but can't click on anything) thus forcing one to do a hard reset. It really does piss me off give that Adobe has had a good amount of time to prepare for this - Apple made it known over a year ago regarding the new Webkit2 structure, several betas have been issued and an RTM that sat there for 3 weeks where Adobe could have focused all resources solely on that one issue as to make it in time.

I really do wish that maybe an alternative company can rise to replace Adobe because right now their products are completely and utterly shit - their latest rip off being CS5.5 and ceasing to support CS5 customers. In all due respects I've taken the jump and now using Pixelmator, OmniGraffle Pro, Hype and BBEdit - it may not have the Adobe pixie dust but at least they've been written from day one on Mac OS X.

Reply Score: 2

RE: Comment by kaiwai
by broken_symlink on Sat 6th Aug 2011 01:49 UTC in reply to "Comment by kaiwai"
broken_symlink Member since:
2005-07-06

My system has been getting really hot when I use flash on lion. I never had this problem in leopard. I skipped snow leopard, because leopard was working fine for me.

Reply Score: 2

RE[2]: Comment by kaiwai
by kaiwai on Sat 6th Aug 2011 01:57 UTC in reply to "RE: Comment by kaiwai"
kaiwai Member since:
2005-07-06

My system has been getting really hot when I use flash on lion. I never had this problem in leopard. I skipped snow leopard, because leopard was working fine for me.


Interesting, have you run iStat Pro to see whether it is the GPU or CPU getting hot? it would be interesting to see what the hold up is.

What are your system specs? (model etc.)

Reply Score: 2

RE[3]: Comment by kaiwai
by broken_symlink on Sat 6th Aug 2011 02:12 UTC in reply to "RE[2]: Comment by kaiwai"
broken_symlink Member since:
2005-07-06

It looks its the cpu. My system is a first gen solid body 15in. mbp. When I run anything with flash the cpu temp is between 160 (71) and 170 (76) degrees and the fans spin up. Without its around 155 (68).

All in all, I think I'm a little disappointed with lion. Leopard worked fine for me, I probably shouldn't have upgraded. Now that I see the future of os x I'm not so sure I'll be sticking with apple through the next os x release.

Reply Score: 3

RE[4]: Comment by kaiwai
by kaiwai on Sat 6th Aug 2011 02:15 UTC in reply to "RE[3]: Comment by kaiwai"
kaiwai Member since:
2005-07-06

It looks its the cpu. My system is a first gen solid body 15in. mbp. When I run anything with flash the cpu temp is between 160 (71) and 170 (76) degrees and the fans spin up. Without its around 155 (68).

All in all, I think I'm a little disappointed with lion. Leopard worked fine for me, I probably shouldn't have upgraded. Now that I see the future of os x I'm not so sure I'll be sticking with apple through the next os x release.


Instead of geting emotional about the situation how about reading blogs about the situation:

http://obamapacman.com/2011/07/adobe-caught-with-pants-down-5-month...

http://kb2.adobe.com/cps/905/cpsid_90508.html#main_Flash_Player

And there are many more out there. Adobe has already made it clear on their website that they know Flash utilises more CPU under Lion than Snow Leopard. It is NOT a Lion fault, it is a fault with Flash.

Btw, if you're sitting at 68 Degrees Celsisus then there is definately something wrong with your setup because even my old 13.3inch 2.53Ghz Core 2 would be sitting at around 40-50 Degrees Celsius sitting idle.

Edited 2011-08-06 02:21 UTC

Reply Score: 2

RE[5]: Comment by kaiwai
by _txf_ on Sat 6th Aug 2011 11:44 UTC in reply to "RE[4]: Comment by kaiwai"
_txf_ Member since:
2008-03-17

What really annoys me is that flash uses so much cpu on osx compared to windows or even linux (with vdpau). I'm not sure that this particular problem can be attributed to adobe though.

H264 videos on osx (the ones that VDA deems acceptable) all seem to use more cpu than DXVA or VDPAU.

Reply Score: 2

RE[6]: Comment by kaiwai
by kaiwai on Sat 6th Aug 2011 23:56 UTC in reply to "RE[5]: Comment by kaiwai"
kaiwai Member since:
2005-07-06

What really annoys me is that flash uses so much cpu on osx compared to windows or even linux (with vdpau). I'm not sure that this particular problem can be attributed to adobe though.

H264 videos on osx (the ones that VDA deems acceptable) all seem to use more cpu than DXVA or VDPAU.


For me Snow Leopard and 10.3 enabled me to play YouTube videos with around 5% CPU utilisation but in all honesty that was the only thing I used it for but I've since removed it and started using ClickToPlugin and ClickToFlash which pretty much allows me not to have Flash installed. I'd venture to argue that the problem with Flash is years of legacy and an unwillingness to do something about the underling problems with it - at the end of the day Lightspark (http://sourceforge.net/apps/trac/lightspark) has made great progress which tells me the underlying concept of Flash isn't the problem but the implementation. At the end of the day if a one man bad (with a few helpers) can produce a pretty good partial replacement for Flash then I expect a lot better from professional programmers whose bread and butter is programming and get paid for their craft.

Reply Score: 2

RE[5]: CPU temp
by jessesmith on Sat 6th Aug 2011 20:04 UTC in reply to "RE[4]: Comment by kaiwai"
jessesmith Member since:
2010-03-11

Agreed, at idle my CPU is generally around 40, video playing around 50-60. A modern processor probably shouldn't be running that hot unless it's under load of you're in a really warm environment.

Reply Score: 1

RE[5]: Comment by kaiwai
by d-signet on Mon 8th Aug 2011 08:57 UTC in reply to "RE[4]: Comment by kaiwai"
d-signet Member since:
2011-05-03

no, i'ts a Lion fault.

Reply Score: 1

RE: Comment by kaiwai
by Neolander on Sat 6th Aug 2011 08:29 UTC in reply to "Comment by kaiwai"
Neolander Member since:
2010-03-08

I really do hope they fix the bugs that Flash has with Lion - play a video using Flash an on the rare occasion the whole screen freezes yet you can move the cursor around (but can't click on anything) thus forcing one to do a hard reset.

I'd argue that if a random process running in user mode manages to crash the system this way (or if Flash needs more than normal user mode privileges to do its job), something's deeply wrong with the OSX graphics stack (or at least the version supplied in Lion). I'm used to see this kind of crashes on Linux distros, not on "professional" OSs that are sold in bundle with hardware for a hefty price.

Edited 2011-08-06 08:30 UTC

Reply Score: 1

RE[2]: Comment by kaiwai
by _txf_ on Sat 6th Aug 2011 11:57 UTC in reply to "RE: Comment by kaiwai"
_txf_ Member since:
2008-03-17


I'd argue that if a random process running in user mode manages to crash the system this way (or if Flash needs more than normal user mode privileges to do its job), something's deeply wrong with the OSX graphics stack (or at least the version supplied in Lion). I'm used to see this kind of crashes on Linux distros, not on "professional" OSs that are sold in bundle with hardware for a hefty price.


Actually Lion is quite heavily sandboxed. Even video playback is heavily sandboxed. I imagine that flash has been sandboxed in most browsers for quite a while.

Reply Score: 2

RE[2]: Comment by kaiwai
by kaiwai on Sun 7th Aug 2011 00:44 UTC in reply to "RE: Comment by kaiwai"
kaiwai Member since:
2005-07-06

I'd argue that if a random process running in user mode manages to crash the system this way (or if Flash needs more than normal user mode privileges to do its job), something's deeply wrong with the OSX graphics stack (or at least the version supplied in Lion). I'm used to see this kind of crashes on Linux distros, not on "professional" OSs that are sold in bundle with hardware for a hefty price.


The system obviously hasn't crashed if I am able to move the cursor around and people with similar problems can ssh - the issue is related to the application itself. If something runs in user space and affects something else that runs in user space then the issue is with the application going rogue and the vendor failing to fix it.

Reply Score: 3

RE[3]: Comment by kaiwai
by Neolander on Sun 7th Aug 2011 14:26 UTC in reply to "RE[2]: Comment by kaiwai"
Neolander Member since:
2010-03-08

Something running in user space being able to affect something else that runs in a separate user space process is a failure of OS security, more specifically process sandboxing, IMO.

When my mail client crashes, I don't have to reboot my PC because the UI has basically turned unresponsive, only leaving me with a useless mouse pointer floating around. Why should it be different with Flash ?

Reply Score: 1

RE[4]: Comment by kaiwai
by No it isnt on Mon 8th Aug 2011 12:50 UTC in reply to "RE[3]: Comment by kaiwai"
No it isnt Member since:
2005-11-14

Flash has two basic features: 1) It can run fullscreen, hogging all input, and 2) it can hang. At that point, the user won't be able to regain control of the console without some equivalent of the Windows three finger salute, or a remote login.

Reply Score: 2

RE[5]: Comment by kaiwai
by Neolander on Mon 8th Aug 2011 12:54 UTC in reply to "RE[4]: Comment by kaiwai"
Neolander Member since:
2010-03-08

But OSX has such a thing as system-wide keyboard shortcuts that applications shouldn't be able to disable, like the Exposé button and a Win9x-ish "kill app" three finger shortcut. I'm sure kawai is knowledgeable enough about OSX to remember about both. Yet he still had to do a hard reset.

Reply Score: 1

Hooray!
by sorpigal on Mon 8th Aug 2011 13:52 UTC
sorpigal
Member since:
2005-11-02

Flash released simultaneously on Linux...

...but it will still be horrendously slow to the point of being useless.

Reply Score: 2