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What a nice reading!
I'll give it a try tonight
One Goal of Syllable is to keep this minimum hardware requirements? I mean, this is somehow sympathic, but honestly, on the to become a big player, there need to some essential things, that raise the requirements.
But not as high as Qubes OS... thats to high^^
Well, i like Syllable and i hope it will go its ways.
I don't know where you read that our goal is to freeze our hardware requirements, but can you give me an example of an essential feature that would boost the requirements?
There is no one essential feature. Each user has different requirements.
But all those requirements need little features served by all sorts of daemons.
And of course huge features like compositing.
The more features, the higher the requirements.
Forgive me. I don't have enough background knowledge on the development of Syllable. The latest stable release of Syllable was released on May 15, 2009.
What were the Syllable developers doing for the past 2 years?
If you read our front page news articles and change logs for the past two years and the articles here on OSNews, you will know.
That interview was nice to read.
Kaj and the syllable team does great work.
Your fortitude is inspirational and shows what can be done.
My 20cents here to the Syllable team.
Regarding future applications.
Please consider only getting one or two highly functional programs per application type.
More people working say on just one audio application for example can polish it more and add more depth to it.
Well, for sure there have been some trouble in the upper layers of the Syllable organization.
This is a comment (from an (ex-)insider at Syallable) on a thread at haiku-os.org: https://www.haiku-os.org/community/forum/syllable_vs_haiku#comment-1...
This explains why there has been little progress on the actual OS itself. Of course there will be two sides on the story, but where there is smoke.....
But of course I wish Syllable all the best since I am a fan of alternative operating systems.
But me, me like Haiku (Aplha3 is another great leap)
As a reader of OSnews and as someone who a long time ago made some minor contributions to Syllable, I'd like to second this sentiment.
Cipri, it has over the last few years become very clear you don't think much of the current state and direction of Syllable. We all got the message. But really, the relentless hate-on you seem to have for Kaj is getting increasingly childish, and tiresome to read.
You've come to the conclusion Syllable isn't for you anymore long ago, and seem to focus most of your active participation on other projects. Perhaps it's high time to also move on emotionally, and leave your feud with (some of) the Syllable people behind.
Syllable is not a hate-based project - at least, not any more. We have no place for people who hate Linux, not for people who hate REBOL, not even for people who hate Haiku. And for better or for worse, we have no place for people who hate me.
I kind of lost all interest in Syllable after Kaj introduced REBOL. It really didn't seem like a good fit. It seemed more like "Amiga" rather than the perception I had of AtheOS reborn. And, at the time Vanders and Kaj were hard to discuss anything regarding the validity of REBOL in Syllable with. Mention XML - "XML is useless, we can do this with REBOL" - why? Why reinvent the wheel? "REBOL is more efficient!" - okay... so everyone else in IT is completely insane then? XML is pretty much industry standard. What about .Net as a simplified development platform? "We can use REBOL for that!" Okay, but why use a minority language, when there is a wealth of usable code.. sigh.
This sounds like a rant and I don't really have any more to add, save I agree with the perceptions that where highlighted in the "Syllable vs Haiku" thread someone quoted the link for above. It was about the time REBOL came about, and Syllable Server, and the Syllable "band camps" that is all went wrong for me and I bailed on the project.
Yeah, but its a popular solution for many things. Having the ability to interact with popular interchange languages like XML is a necessary evil. Like speaking in English.
+1 - absolutely spot on.
XML isn't a terribly complicated mess at all. XML is actually a really simple mark up definition language. What is terribly complicated is the way in which some developers believe it is the answer for all problems. Having worked on a product that uses it for some horribly bastardised scripting language (nothing but XML, no other script) - THAT is a horribly overly complicated mess. XML in general is actually simple.
Modding yourself up, eh?
Uhm, if you want to standardize fully on "Industry standard", use Windows and .NET..
Those who works on alternate OS are not satisfied with current "industry standards" so this is a poor argument.
Boolean algebra would beg to differ.
Anyway, you're welcome to port .Net to Syllable. In fact, I ported part of GNU Portable .Net in the very early years of Syllable. But we found something better.
Don't blame REBOL as a language for eventually wrong decision of Syllable team members!
well no, you blame the developers for using something unsuitable, obviously. The IT industry is littered with cool ideas that didn't cut the mustard....
Can you port Chrome Browser to say Haiku and Syllable.
If you could that a whole range of applications would be at the users disposable.
How challenging is this?
Those people, whom you are referring, have never been involved in your story with Syllable, Kaj or anything else, keep them apart your bitterness. Thank you in advance.
Webster (the Syllable web browser) is built around Webkit, but the port is incomplete in several places and it's out of date now in any case.
I like the comparisions of Kaj. Translated to a nontechnical analogy, they use to be like that:
Somebody says to kaj's two years old child: kaj, look at vandam, he has so many muscles, and he is so fast compared to your two years old child.
And kaj answeres:
"Yes, but does vandam fit in a toy-car like my son? If you weight vandame, how many kg's does he have? 70? 80? My child has only 10kg!! "
these forums is ruthless
70,80 kg for a child? That's not something to be proud of. 10 kg is a bit on the emancipated anorexic side as well. Something more like 22 kg sounds better to me for a generic child of generic child age.
Maybe Syllable has a very skinny API?
Ok, this is becoming a lot more pedantic than I thought. I understand Syllable is lightweight. Syllable developers and users think this is a good thing. If you were trying to help people understand that something that some people think is a good thing may not be a good thing, you would have to compare it to a more easily understood scenario where something may look good if only viewed with a narrow perspective, but actually looks bad upon further inspection. My complaint about the numbers used, is that in the analogy syllable's counterpart never looks good when viewed from any single aspect. A 10 kg child is not something anyone would brag about. Just change Syllable's kid's mass to 22 kg and the other os kids mass to 44 kg and the analogy works a lot better.
Small pet peeve of mine: when people do analogies backwards such that it works better in reverse. as in
The colors black is actually a darker color to most people than white in much the same was as Helium becomes a Bose-Einstein condensate under lower pressure for most temperatures than Hydrogen.
10 kg for a 2 year old is OK.
Guess it depends on your definition of child. A two year old is a toddler 'round here parts. If that was the target age, then the 70,80 kg child is even more off the mark.
I think you've been misunderstanding the original post. It talked about a comparison people would make between Kaj's 2 year old child and a grown-up.
(I thought he was referring to Jean-Claude Van Damme, even though he weighs way more than 80kg..!)
Oh... I see. My brain obviously wasn't reading that right. He also says two year old. Missed that too. Jean Claude VanDamn would make more sense.
Still a bad analogy. Jean Claude is quite possible the worst actor in history, he should never be referred to as a positive in a an analogy. He makes Keanu look like Brando.
Should know better than be doing Haiku vs. Syllable or vice versa. It's bad enough when there's Linux vs. BSD arguments, with both groups having similar goals, just being on different paths. Now people are going to do it with with these two OSes too?
I guess I qualify as a former Syllable developer. I submitted one patch to help get boot-from-CD working. I was also on the team hat helped choose Syllable's logo.
To me it's sad to see the current state of the project. Syllable seems to have stagnated. It does remind me of what happened to it's parent.
But I don't blame any one person. Syllable was (and is) a unique OS that made it fun to use but less attractive to outside developers because it wasn't Linux/Unixy enough.
But I still check the Syllable website. And when a new release comes, I'll try it, just as I have every release since Syllable could boot from a CD.
Hang in there. It won't always be like this.
This is an honest bowl of soup, so everyone should take a sip of it.
Ciprian, it's truly time to let it go. There are many of us who know the true situation with Syllable & the fact of the matter is that what's really eating you happened years ago, literally. It's now 2011. It's time to let it go, man. We all know your stance, you state the same thing each time. You're very happy with Haiku. Well, that's great, the best of luck to you with Haiku. Things could turn around for Syllable at any time. But, if you keep bringing up old stuff, then how do you expect Syllable to ever get past that old hump & get better? Have you ever stopped to think that you could be scaring new developers away? Ok, so Kaj is Syllable's lead developer now...big deal. The reality of the situation is that he's the big cheese, so he makes the decisions. All in all, it really doesn't matter how he became the project lead or whether or not he does the actual coding. All that's really required is for him to lead the development...give the project direction & keep the project headed in that direction. It's not easy running a project, regardless of size. And, arguably, OS development is very difficult to manage & govern over. Many people have opinions about various things & no one likes it when things don't go their way. But the fact of the matter is that when you're in charge, you're in charge --period, point blank. Now, you want answers from Vanders...well, if he doesn't want to tell you what you want to hear, then there comes a point where it's time to get over it & move on. Projects come & go, developers come & go, users come & go, and OSes come & go. That's just how it is. But don't sit here & unnecessarily poison the well. Just because things didn't work out with you & Syllable, doesn't mean that things won't work out for the next person & Syllable. And if all else fails & you're just so attached to Syllable still, well, the source is open...you could always fork. In any case, you've said your piece, there's no need to beat a dead horse.
I agree with Dee... Cipri, you are a great guy but it is time to move on. The rest of us have. The past is the past. Good luck to Syllable in its endeavors. I hope Kaj finds people that will listen to his "wisdom and expertise" and all is well. Time heals all wounds Cipri
Assuming you get some more help with this project, what kinds of things did you have in mind for the future of Syllable?
The interview is about that. Anything specific you want to know?
How about this. If you could look ahead to 1.0 release notes for Syllable, what might they look like?
That's pretty much exactly what the interviewer asked, so I'll refer you there.
So, you have a project consisting of about three people and a dead cow, and you fight like this? In public? On OSNews?
Some things are worth fighting for, even if you can't win. If I fight for Syllable I'm being blamed, and if I don't fight for Syllable I'm being blamed, so I might as well do what I feel like doing myself.
Well now we know what happened. Conflicts between developers.
Syllable seems to have some code submit activity in the source tree. although from what I can tell, no functional changes to the kernel or apserver for at least 14 months. This and the Developers and former developers openly arguing on OSnews sure gives it a bad smell.
The interview explains why this is not the highest priority for the project.
Interesting comments. They say even bad publicity is better than no publicity but in this case we were probably better off with no publicity....