Linked by Thom Holwerda on Wed 26th Oct 2011 10:32 UTC
PDAs, Cellphones, Wireless Today is the start of Nokia World 2011, the event where Nokia would unveil its first Windows Phone 7 device(s). And so they did. The Finnish mobile giant unveiled two Windows Phone 7 smartphones, as well as four new Series 40 phones for emerging markets. The most interesting thing? Pricing. Pretty aggressive. Update: Anybody want a kidney?
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Schendstok
Member since:
2009-01-20

Nokia n9 and 800 only look the same, like a chinese knock-off looks identical to the original.

What is interesting is that Nokia is calling the 800 a "true nokia device", probably to hide that it really isn't
Compal was thanked in the presentation. So I think the 800 isn't made by Nokia, but by ODM Compal.

Nokia also made a point that the speakers holes are drilled in the 800. In the N9 they are also, since the N9 is carved from a bigger piece of plastic. The 800 isn't, it is "injection molded", just like all the other mobile phones today. So either the production method for the N9 had serious problems, so Nokia killed that too, or compal just couldn't use a similar production method.

According to the specs the Nokia 800 uses a Qualcomm single core CPU. So it is just Windows Phone reference design.

Also the Lumina 710 is like a replica of the Nokia 603, but with a nicer color selection.

The Nokia maps, and the radio mix apps are a way to fix the missing features for people coming from Symbian to Windows phone.
A shame that NFC isn't implemented in the phones, wonder if it isn't present or just not supported by software.

The Nokia 800 is like a legitimately branded Chinese knock-off of the N9, similar in looks, but totally different hardware, totally different software, and totally different production methods.

Reply Score: 6

kragil Member since:
2006-01-04

Not really sure if you are right. Citation needed I guess.

According to:
http://www.engadget.com/2011/10/26/nokia-lumia-800-hands-on/
it is exactly the same as the N9.

But the name. Lumia? Srly?

And anyways, nobody really wants a _Windows_ phone. If I talk to people, Windows stands for problems, work and viruses. Why the hell didn't they invent a new name like Xbox. Windows as a brand for something that is supposed to be simple sucks donkey balls.
And the sales speak a clear language. Windows phones don't sell.

Reply Score: 9

Schendstok Member since:
2009-01-20

@kragil I just watched the presentation, Compal is thanked and the fabrication method is mentioned.
Also the Nokia site has spec sheets, it mentions the Qualcomm chip.

@ronaldst I don't hate Microsoft, why is that "obvious"?
I'm just saying the 800 remind me of a "Nokla-clone" of a Nokia phone: a Chinese knock-off feeling.
The 800 and N9 do look a bit like iPod Nanos in a way, but probably any product with a screen, only a few buttons and a flashy color will.

Reply Score: 2

kragil Member since:
2006-01-04

All the hands-on say it is drilled polycarbonate, just like the N9 and it feels just like the N9. So I guess the Qualcomm stuff is made by Compal, but the case is still made by Nokia. For all we know it is the same.

Still waiting for citations ..

Differences are:
Qualcomm chip instead of TI chip in the N9.
512 MB vs 1GB
800x480 vs 800x854
No front facing camera
And they both have AMOLED (not AMOLED+, like Thom wrote.)

Reply Score: 3

Thom_Holwerda Member since:
2005-06-29

And they both have AMOLED (not AMOLED+, like Thom wrote.)


Look carefully at what I wrote:

The display is the same 3.7" AMOLED ClearBlack (Super AMOLED+, basically)


AMOLED ClearBlack is Nokia's variant of Super AMOLED+.

Reply Score: 1

kragil Member since:
2006-01-04

Nope, the + means full RGB and the N9 and the Lumia 800 don't have that, they are of the PenTile variety just like the Galaxy Nexus and not the S2. (http://www.engadget.com/2011/10/21/the-galaxy-nexus-super-amoled-di...)

Edit: Oh, and the Lumia 800 has only a 3.7 inch screen whereas the N9 has 3.9
Edit2:
Any spanish speakers aroung?
http://www.wordmagicsoft.com/dictionary/es-en/lumia.php

Edited 2011-10-26 12:26 UTC

Reply Score: 2

Jutsu Member since:
2006-02-22

I'm spanish and yes lumia means whore but it's so old and unused that I don't think it will harm Nokia in the least.

Nice phone though WP7 hardware specs are low and MS is not Apple to sell 'user experience'

Reply Score: 2

gan17 Member since:
2008-06-03

They should have made it fiery red and named it Puta Fuego

Reply Score: 1

Soulbender Member since:
2005-08-18

I'm spanish and yes lumia means whore but it's so old and unused that I don't think it will harm Nokia in the least.


Sort of fitting though.

Reply Score: 2

viton Member since:
2005-08-09

The name reflects the nature of Nokia that sold itself to microsoft for miserable pittance.

Reply Score: 3

sicofante Member since:
2009-07-08

Spanish speaker here. Lumia is an unused term in most (if not all) of the Spanish speaking world. In Spain you can hear "lumi" as a slang term for whore, but it's also geographically and socially restricted, as well as bit dated these days.

It's funny but will be anecdotal. It's not like when Mitsubish had to rename their Pajero (=wanker, in Spanish) to Montero here.

Reply Score: 2

fran Member since:
2010-08-06

wrong thread..reposted in right one

Edited 2011-10-26 13:05 UTC

Reply Score: 2

ronaldst Member since:
2005-06-29

@ronaldst I don't hate Microsoft, why is that "obvious"?
I'm just saying the 800 remind me of a "Nokla-clone" of a Nokia phone: a Chinese knock-off feeling.
The 800 and N9 do look a bit like iPod Nanos in a way, but probably any product with a screen, only a few buttons and a flashy color will.

I don't know where do you see Chinese knockoff. They look almost identical. I didn't see anything similar to a PolyStation gaming console.

You want to know what's wrong about these phones? They're half-assed jobs of re-branded existing handsets. So far, Nokia is proving itself a complete disappointment. Where's the 64gigs model? Or the one with a bigger screen? With all that wasted work in the marketing video, they couldn't be bothered to select better colours in the dreadful Start screen. I could go on.

I am flabbergasted. Fuck Nokia.

Reply Score: 2

zima Member since:
2005-07-06

nobody really wants a _Windows_ phone. If I talk to people, Windows stands for problems, work and viruses. Why the hell didn't they invent a new name like Xbox. Windows as a brand for something that is supposed to be simple sucks donkey balls.
And the sales speak a clear language. Windows phones don't sell.

And aren't "windows" about being descriptive of a core UI element, anyway? I don't really see them in WP UI - by the looks of it, Roller Shutters Phone(tm) or such, Awnings Phone(tm) maybe, would be closer :p

Anyway, maybe Metro just isn't that good, however sleek it looks - in many video presentations of WP7, I very often have an impression that the presenter is quite lost in the UI... (yes, particularly in "early" ones - still, one would expect those doing the demonstration to be chosen also on the basis of moderate familiarity)
There seems to be plenty of people who get stuck while trying to pick it up - that would also explain poor sales.

Reply Score: 2

JAlexoid Member since:
2009-05-19

Nokia also made a point that the speakers holes are drilled in the 800. In the N9 they are also, since the N9 is carved from a bigger piece of plastic. The 800 isn't, it is "injection molded", just like all the other mobile phones today. So either the production method for the N9 had serious problems, so Nokia killed that too, or compal just couldn't use a similar production method.

I guess they didn't want to invest too much into N9, so they did not create the moulds. They also most probably make N9s in their sample/early production facilities that are optimised to quickly switch designs instead of their mass production facilities that are optimised for several mass market proven designs.

According to the specs the Nokia 800 uses a Qualcomm single core CPU. So it is just Windows Phone reference design.

It's not "reference design". It's the only supported chipset by WP7.

Reply Score: 4

IMO Lumia taints N9
by kragil on Wed 26th Oct 2011 11:26 UTC
kragil
Member since:
2006-01-04

I really wanted a N9, but now there are identical Windows phones .. I don't really know why but that makes the N9 not stand out as much as it used to.
I guess if the price comes down to Lumia levels I will buy one anyways. It just has everything I want. Beauty, Elegance and Simplicity. No other phone has a similar package _IMO_.

Nokia is so full of fail lately (although maybe there will be updates for Meego and the N9 will continue to sell well. Maybe there is hope. Rumors speak of more devices with SwipeUI.)

Reply Score: 2

RE: IMO Lumia taints N9
by dsmogor on Wed 26th Oct 2011 12:58 UTC in reply to "IMO Lumia taints N9"
dsmogor Member since:
2005-09-01

There are 2 major updates for N9in the works.
1.1 is about fixing bugs
1.2 about missing features.
Swype is also planned.
But after that it's done. N9 UI will probably land in upcomming Nokia S40 replacement Meltemi.

Edited 2011-10-26 12:59 UTC

Reply Score: 2

RE[2]: IMO Lumia taints N9
by kragil on Wed 26th Oct 2011 13:28 UTC in reply to "RE: IMO Lumia taints N9"
kragil Member since:
2006-01-04

Thanks. So after N9 1.2 the SwipeUI etc will be "ported" from Meego Linux to Meltemi Linux? Or will it be just relabeled?

White is pretty:
http://thisismynext.com/2011/10/26/white-n9-meego-p1-1-hands-on/

Reply Score: 2

RE[4]: IMO Lumia taints N9
by kragil on Wed 26th Oct 2011 20:58 UTC in reply to "RE[3]: IMO Lumia taints N9"
kragil Member since:
2006-01-04

;-) LOL. I was counting money .. IF the white one is exclusive to the N9 I will get it at one point in my life.
It is on my 101 things to do/buy before I die list.

Reply Score: 3

RE[3]: IMO Lumia taints N9
by dsmogor on Wed 26th Oct 2011 14:49 UTC in reply to "RE[2]: IMO Lumia taints N9"
dsmogor Member since:
2005-09-01

That's my assumption. There are few details about what/if Meltemi will be.

Reply Score: 2

asha
by fran on Wed 26th Oct 2011 12:00 UTC
fran
Member since:
2010-08-06

People in the developing world will just buy something like a LG optimus one or the like.
Full size feature smartphones is not that expensive anymore.
I just wonder if the new series 40 will make an impact.

Reply Score: 2

RE: asha
by kragil on Wed 26th Oct 2011 12:16 UTC in reply to "asha"
kragil Member since:
2006-01-04

Well, what is the difference between Asha phones and Android?

They both have a web browser, apps, navigation, touch screens etc.

Truth be told: S40 is probably a smartphone OS now. There is no one definition for what a smartphone is and should be able to do, there are many and S40 with apps fits most of them.

Edited 2011-10-26 12:25 UTC

Reply Score: 2

RE[2]: asha
by fran on Wed 26th Oct 2011 13:06 UTC in reply to "RE: asha"
fran Member since:
2010-08-06

Point taken, but there is a difference.
Not only in the amount of software but perception, software options and similar experience across devices.

The issue i have with the lower end OS Nokia is it's positioning. It will always play second fiddle to protect the market for it's premium Windows 7 phones.

It will not have such an aggressive evolution cycle, it cost as much as other budget full feature Android phones, it will have less applications, limited appeal for application developers and be perceived as second best.
Nokia should just have released a Android phone for this countries.

Reply Score: 2

RE[2]: asha
by Bill Shooter of Bul on Wed 26th Oct 2011 13:32 UTC in reply to "RE: asha"
Bill Shooter of Bul Member since:
2006-07-14

Well, what is the difference between Asha phones and Android?


People want Android phones? If there is no choice, people will gladly get a phone with as many internet enabled, music playing features as they can afford, but android is a known name of western quality. My friends in developing countries ( central/south america, sub Saharan africa, India) tell me that Android phones are what people want when they replace their feature phone/Symbian phone or even when they get their first phone.

So Nokia has to make them cheaper than the Chinese Android phones or the second hand Android phones. And it has to make them at high volume/ low profit per device. Its not impossible. I wish them good luck. I want them to survive for the sake of QT.

Reply Score: 2

RE: asha
by kaiwai on Wed 26th Oct 2011 13:16 UTC in reply to "asha"
kaiwai Member since:
2005-07-06

People in the developing world will just buy something like a LG optimus one or the like.
Full size feature smartphones is not that expensive anymore.
I just wonder if the new series 40 will make an impact.


I assume your read the Nokia press release:

http://press.nokia.com/2011/10/26/nokia-showcases-bold-portfolio-of...

You know, the section where the Nokia Asha is covered? you did read the press release, didn't you?

Reply Score: 3

RE: asha
by Neolander on Wed 26th Oct 2011 19:45 UTC in reply to "asha"
Neolander Member since:
2010-03-08

Well, if I was to recommend s40 on feature phones, it would be because of the nice hardware it runs on, a good "feeling" (snappiness and usability) on higher-end hardware*, an extensive and relatively well-implemented feature set for this class of phones, and all that with good battery life. However, I don't know if these characteristics have been kept in the new "smartphonified" s40, neither if they matter in the smartphone world.

Take battery life, as an example. Symbian was the only smartphone OS with above decent (great, actually) battery life, and it is being canned. If we look at competition, bada is okay (~3 days), and the big guys are terrible (from less than 1 to 2 days). So if we are to believe economists, it would mean that the market currently cares more about shiny applications than good battery life. Or good overall performance as a phone, for that matter.

Maybe a well-done s40 could make people change their minds, though. I don't know, all those persons who bought glass-plated phones because they found it pretty and cracked the display's cover in a few months could be interested in something which may be carried in a pocket/handbag without any need for ugly cases or extreme care. And making this kind of hardware is something which Nokia are very good at.

As far as I'm concerned, I'd like to believe that I'm done with Nokia. They made good products overall, and I'm all for helping fellow European companies, but Elop's actions scream for boycott. However, this clown won't stay where he is forever, and it remains to be seen whether I can find good competition in my niche among other manufacturers. I have yet to try Sony's stuff, looks like some of it is pretty good.


*s40 on a 6300 or 5310 = Good
s40 on a 2530 = Sluggish as hell

Edited 2011-10-26 19:55 UTC

Reply Score: 2

RE[2]: asha
by Slambert666 on Thu 27th Oct 2011 03:28 UTC in reply to "RE: asha"
Slambert666 Member since:
2008-10-30

Battery life really depends on the usage more than the os.

My E63 and my Galaxy S II has about the same battery life when strictly used as a phone for calls and texting (4 to 6 days).
With WI-FI on continuously they both have 3 to 4 days battery life.
When you start using the S II for watching movies and playing games and browsing then the battery life drops to 1 day, the E63 is useless for anything but basic phone features so it "feels" like it has better battery life, but in reality it is the same.

Reply Score: 4

RE[3]: asha
by mkone on Thu 27th Oct 2011 04:52 UTC in reply to "RE[2]: asha"
mkone Member since:
2006-03-14

Too true. I have had feature phone before, and the moment I got a smartphone, my usage patterns changed. I use my phone a lot more. If I don't touch my phone for anything other than calls and texts, my battery can go on for days. I will use about 20-25% in a day, so could get 3-4 days use out of it.

Reply Score: 2

RE[4]: asha
by Neolander on Thu 27th Oct 2011 06:40 UTC in reply to "RE[3]: asha"
Neolander Member since:
2010-03-08

Am I the only one for who the Nokia E63 belongs to the "smartphone" category ?

I mean, when I switched from the low end of Samsung, Nokia, and LG that is typically called feature phones to an E63, there has been a change in the way I use my phone. Calendar, youtube videos, mails, and web browsing (with opera mobile, not the awful stock browser) became usable features, where they were mostly geek toys before. Texting was much less painful due to the presence of a well-managed QWERTY keyboard.

No such change with other higher-end phones. I'm still around 1000 texts and 10 min talk a month, long mails are still impractical, web browsing is still nice but not even close to replacing a laptop due to the narrow view and limited writing, watching anything but mobile-optimized videos on the go is still not envisionable because EDGE is slow and 3G is unstable, I still don't get the point of apps...

Reply Score: 2

RE[5]: asha
by fran on Thu 27th Oct 2011 10:49 UTC in reply to "RE[4]: asha"
fran Member since:
2010-08-06

Agree, some "feature phones" definitely fall into the smartphone category.

Edited 2011-10-27 10:50 UTC

Reply Score: 3

RE[5]: asha
by Neolander on Thu 27th Oct 2011 19:58 UTC in reply to "RE[4]: asha"
Neolander Member since:
2010-03-08

As for more features and increased usage resulting in lower battery life, I actually noticed an increase of battery life between feature phones (3 days on average) and an E63 (4-5 days), with the usage patterns listed above. So that's not a fatality.

I suspect that qwerty may play a role there : I write lots of texts, so if I type them quicker, the screen stays off for a longer time. Also, mid- and high-end phone+OS combinations can have nice power management features, such as power-efficient task scheduling or ambient light sensing. A third hypothesis of mine is that there is room higher battery capacity per screen estate unit in smartphone form factors, especially candybar ones.

Reply Score: 1

RE[3]: asha
by Carewolf on Thu 27th Oct 2011 10:06 UTC in reply to "RE[2]: asha"
Carewolf Member since:
2005-09-08

Ehmm 5-6 days??

I have feature phone. When it was new it would last 2 weeks on normal use. Technically it could run for almost 4 weeks if you didn't use it much. 600 hours of standby, 40 hours of phonecalls and 20 hours of gaming.

This is nowhere near the same neighborhood as smart-phones. It is like a completely different realm of phone-reality.

Edited 2011-10-27 10:08 UTC

Reply Score: 3

RE[4]: asha
by Not2Sure on Thu 27th Oct 2011 19:59 UTC in reply to "RE[3]: asha"
Not2Sure Member since:
2009-12-07

Most feature phones also lacked 802.11 which chews through battery like nobody's business but is a de facto standard BOM on smartphones

Reply Score: 2

Late
by jollix on Wed 26th Oct 2011 12:03 UTC
jollix
Member since:
2010-10-27

Too late for love. After being a loyal Nokia user for 10 years, now I am in the Android wagon. Still love my awesome 6233 though.

Reply Score: 4

v ...
by Hiev on Wed 26th Oct 2011 12:40 UTC
Angry Birds , finally!
by dsmogor on Wed 26th Oct 2011 12:55 UTC
dsmogor
Member since:
2005-09-01

on a dumb phone! That's the major news here! This event will be rememberebered for bringning Angry Birds to the masses.
Anyway with with good pricess Nokia is finally positioned to fend off Samsung on the feature phones with those beauties.

Reply Score: 2

xranby
Member since:
2011-10-26

#Nokia have delivered the best mobile phone experience when they released the #N9 with #MeeGo! After less than a days porting I am actually now running the full #OpenJDK on the #N9! http://tinyurl.com/5wbg672

Its clear that when the market got in contact with MeeGo they loved it instantly. The CEO of Nokia should remember that its the markets opinion that dictates when a successful product appear, it can never be figured out on forehand by the company itself.

Reply Score: 5

v Is that a...
by bowkota on Wed 26th Oct 2011 13:13 UTC
"western" is the wrong term
by AcacioMartins on Wed 26th Oct 2011 13:33 UTC
AcacioMartins
Member since:
2011-04-06

I guess I'm nitpicking, but the use of the term "western" to reference rich countries is inappropriate. I'm Brazilian, and therefore a westerner, but south america(as mentioned in the article) is not rich. Also Australia, Japan and Korea are a few examples of eastern countries that are rich.

Like the rest of the OSnews audience I'm a bit of a nerd and earning above the Brazilian average, so I'm not the target audience of Asha, but adding features to cheap phones matters. To most Brazilians price is the determining factor and features are differentiators. Also Nokia still has pretty strong brand recognition.

Reply Score: 4

RE: "western" is the wrong term
by KernelMethod on Thu 27th Oct 2011 11:41 UTC in reply to ""western" is the wrong term"
KernelMethod Member since:
2011-10-27

I think "western" is more often understood as much as a cultural term than solely as a reference to a particular geographic location.

Reply Score: 2

RE[2]: "western" is the wrong term
by zima on Wed 2nd Nov 2011 23:59 UTC in reply to "RE: "western" is the wrong term"
zima Member since:
2005-07-06

Yes, particularly when one considers how most of NATO (typically strongly associated with "western world" and its allies) countries, quite likely (too lazy to count properly, especially since Greenwich meridian cuts through some populous members) majority of its population, and its headquarters, are actually in the eastern hemisphere...

Edited 2011-11-03 00:18 UTC

Reply Score: 2

Aggressive pricing?
by taschenorakel on Wed 26th Oct 2011 13:53 UTC
taschenorakel
Member since:
2005-07-06

Sure that 500€ is "aggressive pricing", considering that Amazon lists comparable WP7 phones for about 200€?

Reply Score: 0

RE: Aggressive pricing?
by Soulbender on Wed 26th Oct 2011 14:37 UTC in reply to "Aggressive pricing?"
Soulbender Member since:
2005-08-18

Especially in "emerging" markets where 500€ is a lot of money.
No, not a very agressive price really.

Reply Score: 2

RE[2]: Aggressive pricing?
by Thom_Holwerda on Wed 26th Oct 2011 14:39 UTC in reply to "RE: Aggressive pricing?"
Thom_Holwerda Member since:
2005-06-29

Especially in "emerging" markets where 500€ is a lot of money.
No, not a very agressive price really.


*sigh*

In Western Europe, the target market of this device, €420 for a brand new flagship smartphone is an aggressive price.

Reply Score: 2

RE[3]: Aggressive pricing?
by Soulbender on Wed 26th Oct 2011 16:58 UTC in reply to "RE[2]: Aggressive pricing?"
Soulbender Member since:
2005-08-18

Wstern Europe isn't an emerging market. I thought that was the target but sure, if the target is western europe then $420 is competitive.

Reply Score: 2

RE[3]: Aggressive pricing?
by taschenorakel on Wed 26th Oct 2011 18:20 UTC in reply to "RE[2]: Aggressive pricing?"
taschenorakel Member since:
2005-07-06

"Especially in "emerging" markets where 500€ is a lot of money.
No, not a very agressive price really.


*sigh*

In Western Europe, the target market of this device, €420 for a brand new flagship smartphone is an aggressive price.
"

You forget to add taxes, which makes €499 in Germany. The €200 WP7 phones on Amazon are with taxes already.

Reply Score: 1

RE[3]: Aggressive pricing?
by arpan on Wed 26th Oct 2011 18:28 UTC in reply to "RE[2]: Aggressive pricing?"
arpan Member since:
2006-07-30

So it is 15% cheaper than the iPhone 4S (which is one of the most expensive smartphones), has a processor that is only a single core (and only an ARM7 version), and a slower graphics chip, has less pixels and you consider that pricing aggressive.

In comparison, the Galaxy S2 is similar in price but has a much larger screen with more pixels, with a processor twice as powerful, and twice the RAM.

As far as I can tell, only reason the N800 is cheaper is because it's a year behind the competition in terms of specs and apps. It should be compared to last year's phones, since those are the ones whose specs and performance most closely match it.

Also, as far as the OS is concerned, although I too like the UI of Windows Phone 7, the fact is that the application support, and the browser and over a year behind the competition. I considered purchasing a Windows Phone 7 device, but decided to go with Android (or a second hand iPhone), because a few keys apps that I want aren't present on it.

Reply Score: 4

RE[4]: Aggressive pricing?
by ebasconp on Wed 26th Oct 2011 23:27 UTC in reply to "RE[3]: Aggressive pricing?"
ebasconp Member since:
2006-05-09

I think he meant "aggressive" with the buyers ;)

Reply Score: 2

RE[4]: Aggressive pricing?
by FealDorf on Thu 27th Oct 2011 13:53 UTC in reply to "RE[3]: Aggressive pricing?"
FealDorf Member since:
2008-01-07

While I'm mixed about N800's pricing, Nokia appears to be putting the price tag elsewhere: 710 has the exact same hardware except for the cam and LCD, with a much lesser price. iPhone is a 1GHz dual-core, which moderately matches the same performance. As for pixels, I'm not really that excited about retina display. The build quality goes a long way for me, considering how every phone I land with ends up broken somehow.

The problem I have with Lumia 800 is that besides the unibody and 8MP it has no real advantage over N710. Add to that the lack of front-facing camera, which is a potential dealbreaker.

That said, if it's priced aggressively in India (where I live) and considering how it's etched in our heads that nokia phones are super-durable, I may as well get one.

Edited 2011-10-27 13:55 UTC

Reply Score: 1

RE[5]: Aggressive pricing?
by arpan on Thu 27th Oct 2011 15:54 UTC in reply to "RE[4]: Aggressive pricing?"
arpan Member since:
2006-07-30

I live in India too, and phones here cost a lot more after import duties and taxes are added. Would you really buy the 710 for Rs. 20,000 or the 800 for 30,000? Especially since any apps that are specific to India are going to be available on Android or iOS, but not on WP7.

Reply Score: 2

RE[6]: Aggressive pricing?
by FealDorf on Thu 27th Oct 2011 16:06 UTC in reply to "RE[5]: Aggressive pricing?"
FealDorf Member since:
2008-01-07

I tried listing apps that I need and turns out they weren't many, and none were locale specific.As for 710 at 20k, all WP7's sell at that range and I have no issues getting one if build quality is good. Omnia W is selling at same range and HTC costs a bit extra.

Androids for most part have been sluggish for me (bad experience? maybe) so I'd rather try WP7 instead

Reply Score: 1

RE[2]: Aggressive pricing?
by bowkota on Wed 26th Oct 2011 15:22 UTC in reply to "RE: Aggressive pricing?"
bowkota Member since:
2011-10-12

Especially in "emerging" markets where 500€ is a lot of money.
No, not a very agressive price really.

It's aggressive in when you take into account the pricing of its competitors.

Reply Score: 1

RE[3]: Aggressive pricing?
by taschenorakel on Wed 26th Oct 2011 18:25 UTC in reply to "RE[2]: Aggressive pricing?"
taschenorakel Member since:
2005-07-06

"Especially in "emerging" markets where 500€ is a lot of money.
No, not a very agressive price really.

It's aggressive in when you take into account the pricing of its competitors.
"

what competitors? iphone, android? lol!
the competition are the many other WP7 phones on the market:

http://www.amazon.de/s?field-keywords=windows%20phone%207

Reply Score: 2

RE[4]: Aggressive pricing?
by arpan on Wed 26th Oct 2011 18:29 UTC in reply to "RE[3]: Aggressive pricing?"
arpan Member since:
2006-07-30

good point.

Reply Score: 2

RE[4]: Aggressive pricing?
by bowkota on Wed 26th Oct 2011 19:07 UTC in reply to "RE[3]: Aggressive pricing?"
bowkota Member since:
2011-10-12



what competitors? iphone, android? lol!
the competition are the many other WP7 phones on the market:

http://www.amazon.de/s?field-keywords=windows%20phone%207


There's no feature parity there.
These are it's competitors. What you linked is closer to the Lumia 710, which has a similar price tag.
http://thisismynext.com/2011/10/26/nokia-lumia-800-vs-iphone-4s-htc...

Edited 2011-10-26 19:08 UTC

Reply Score: 1

RE[5]: Aggressive pricing?
by taschenorakel on Wed 26th Oct 2011 21:35 UTC in reply to "RE[4]: Aggressive pricing?"
taschenorakel Member since:
2005-07-06


There's no feature parity there.
These are it's competitors. What you linked is closer to the Lumia 710, which has a similar price tag.
http://thisismynext.com/2011/10/26/nokia-lumia-800-vs-iphone-4s-htc...


That article doesn't talk about hardware specs, sorry but you something better to support your point.

Maybe you should check the Lumia 800 specs before putting it into same class as iPhone or recent Android phones: 800x480 pixel resolution, single core CPU, only 512 MB RAM, no NFC, dull software, ... that's definitely just middle class in October 2011. Only feature that slightly puts the phone out of that class is the camera.

Reply Score: 1

RE[6]: Aggressive pricing?
by Straho on Fri 28th Oct 2011 13:35 UTC in reply to "RE[5]: Aggressive pricing?"
Straho Member since:
2011-09-30

I have iPhone and lumia800 is nothing like it. It's more close to my one year old Samsung Wave S8500, which is 100$ cheaper.

Reply Score: 1

Official Harmattan end?
by ebasconp on Wed 26th Oct 2011 14:51 UTC
ebasconp
Member since:
2006-05-09

With these new phones released by Nokia today, who (apart of geeks, Linux fans or devs) on the earth would buy a N9? Sad, very sad.

Reply Score: 2

RE: Official Harmattan end?
by Bill Shooter of Bul on Wed 26th Oct 2011 19:47 UTC in reply to "Official Harmattan end?"
Bill Shooter of Bul Member since:
2006-07-14

Uhm, maybe you missed the memo, but it was Dead on Arival. Nokia had already announced Windows was the way forward for them long before the release of the N9. So the audience for the N9 before release of these phones is the same audience it is now afterwards.

Reply Score: 2

RE[2]: Official Harmattan end?
by cdude on Sat 29th Oct 2011 15:52 UTC in reply to "RE: Official Harmattan end?"
cdude Member since:
2008-09-21

Phone 7 still lacks applications what the customer-audience sees. Phone 7, now in the market for half a year, doesn't sell and that is not a hardware problem.

There is no upgrade-path from Symbian and it's C++/Qt eco-system to the Windows-only Silverlight like Meego offered. The tooling and developer-audience is complete different making Nokia start from scratch at a rather late time with strong competition rather then building up on what made them big and successful in the past.

MeeGo offered that upgrade-path, Phone 7 doesn't.

Reply Score: 1

RE: Official Harmattan end?
by sicofante on Thu 27th Oct 2011 00:10 UTC in reply to "Official Harmattan end?"
sicofante Member since:
2009-07-08

Classy, stylish, elegant people that don't give a damn about apps or Windows and want the best of the best in terms of looks and design.

My lovely woman is both a fashion expert and victim and she won't take those three buttons at the bottom of the screen or the assimetric UI of WP7. When she saw the N9 she said she Wanted. One. Now. She wants to drop the iPhone for an N9 ASAP. When I showed her the Lumia 800 this morning, she said the only interesting thing is that they put the flash inline with the camera. It helps the symmetry at the back. But it's the front we're looking at all the time, and the N9 is just better. We haven't seen any WP7 videos yet, but the Harmattan videos showed a truly unique design in software too. She cares about that as well. Me too. (To be honest, I don't know what came first inside Nokia, but WP7 seems bolted on the N9 design, not the opposite.)

The N9 has another advantage for snobs in countries not getting it officially: it's a really hard to get phone. Almost no one will have it here.

I'm happy that she's so strict with her design and fashion rules. I agree with her. We'll be buying two 64GB N9s soon.

Edited 2011-10-27 00:18 UTC

Reply Score: 2

RE[2]: Official Harmattan end?
by ebasconp on Thu 27th Oct 2011 04:15 UTC in reply to "RE: Official Harmattan end?"
ebasconp Member since:
2006-05-09

Why this guy was modded down? Actually I liked his comment ;)

Reply Score: 2

Call me weird...
by mfaudzinr on Wed 26th Oct 2011 22:17 UTC
mfaudzinr
Member since:
2008-02-13

Well why don't you just... because I do want a Nokia Windows Phone 7 smartphone. A lot of you guys hate it but I have been anticipating it's release with bated breath. Not holding my breath longer as it may not be available in my country until year end or even next year. I won't buy it from any other vendor but Nokia when it comes to Windows Phone 7. To me it's perfect marriage.

However my next phone (Soon) will be Samsung Galaxy SII or Note (Depends on availability). Even after I've bought the Samsung, I still want a Nokia phone. Windows phone concept is different enough than what's available in the market that I find it a breath of fresh air instead of similar interface concept especially between Android and IOS.

Ok I am a bit all over the place, my tech appetite varies but what the heck - yes I do want the Nokia Lumia 800.

Reply Score: 2

RE: Call me weird...
by j-kidd on Thu 27th Oct 2011 00:21 UTC in reply to "Call me weird..."
j-kidd Member since:
2005-07-06

Come on, Malaysia is one of the few N9-compatible countries according to Nokia. Get one!

Reply Score: 2

RE[2]: Call me weird...
by mfaudzinr on Thu 27th Oct 2011 02:06 UTC in reply to "RE: Call me weird..."
mfaudzinr Member since:
2008-02-13

Now that would feel like a dead end. Wouldn't want to get something that will not be actively developed (Meego) unless you count Tizen. As gorgeous as it is, N9 unfortunately has no definite future. I was excited about Meego & Nokia until they changed their course and went MS but the end result is not half bad as I would have thought, it is again rather schizophrenic of Nokia to have done what they did. With Nokia's hardware expertise and MS Mango, I'd say this, one word sums it up, it's "clean".

Reply Score: 1

Import thing this is ment to be High end.
by oiaohm on Wed 26th Oct 2011 23:27 UTC
oiaohm
Member since:
2009-05-30

Meltemi is Linux QT based for phones.

Meltemi is the S40 replacement from Nokia. Meego was Targeted as a high end feature phone so was allowed to require a lot of hardware. Interesting that Nokia started this up again. Statement from Nokia is that Windows Phone 7 requires too much hardware. Meltemi is target to be as light as able so the device can be made as cheep as able.

Linux foundation is also changing over to making Tizen. Again targeting the same lower end.

Meego has made roads into high end devices. Android and OSi have the middle market mostly tied up. I don't see this wp7 phone by nokia changing anything.

Issue wp7 phones are not there now and they are still selling poorly. So nokia is just a another wp7 phone in the market. I was hope nokia would be pulling out something special. Like Windows 8 on phones. But no.

Linux on phones is here to stay. Windows on phones long term is dicey.

Reply Score: 2

shmerl Member since:
2010-06-08

IMO Nokia will play around with WP and will eventually dump the whole thing.

Reply Score: 2

sicofante Member since:
2009-07-08

So Meltemi apps will probably run on Meego as well... right?

Something tells me Meltemi will be a success. The world needs cheaper phones. This trend of phones costing almost as much as a plasma TV can't last too long.

Reply Score: 3

oiaohm Member since:
2009-05-30

"So Meltemi apps will probably run on Meego as well... right?"

There is a possibility that Meego will no longer exist by the time Meltemi is released. Most likely Meltemi applications will be able to be ported to tizen the descendent of Meego without very much effort.

Reply Score: 2

cdude Member since:
2008-09-21

That is the nice thing about opensource: it will continue to exist as long as enough people like to have it :-)

From what I read Meltemi is Qt on Linux and therefore 1:1 Meego-compatible. No need to port anything. Recompile if at all and be fine.

Reply Score: 1

sinking ship
by re_re on Wed 26th Oct 2011 23:56 UTC
re_re
Member since:
2005-07-06

I'm not quite sure why Nokia decided to jump onto a sinking ship with Windows phone 7. Honestly, almost everybody I know has a cell phone and 90% of them have an android based phone or an i-phone. The other 10% have an old school flip phone like a razor or something. I can't think of one person that I know that has a windows phone 7 phone.

edited for spelling.

Edited 2011-10-27 00:08 UTC

Reply Score: 1

RE: sinking ship
by zima on Wed 2nd Nov 2011 22:27 UTC in reply to "sinking ship"
zima Member since:
2005-07-06

I'm not really defending the path where Nokia went (particularly since they traditionally seemed like the more "friendly" brand, in contrast to Motorola; Google-Nokia & Microsoft-Motorola would feel more harmonious to me ;) ); but, in making future analyses, you might remember how hugely atypical your place and your experiences are - in general (on average) and, probably, even more by the virtue of your social group.

First, ("almost everybody I know has a cell phone") it actually has a relatively low mobile phone penetration, at 93% (compare with http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Europe_mobile_phone_penetration_m... for example).
Overall smartphone adoption still hovers around 20%, and flip phones / RAZR were quite unpopular in most places. You also probably can't think of a single person who has a Nokia phone, since yours is one of the very few places they don't have wide adoption.
(other curious thing to consider: most of the world really owns their phones, and uses prepaid)

Reply Score: 2

Heh
by Nelson on Thu 27th Oct 2011 03:12 UTC
Nelson
Member since:
2005-11-29

Based off the operator support and marketing dollars going into the Lumia 800, itsgoing to sell very well. Certainly more than the N9.

If Nokia ups their pace, I could see them making substantial marketshare inroads with Windows Phone.

Most objective reviewers find Windows Phone 7.5 to be on par, if not better than its rivals. The only thing that was ever missing was robust operator support and a dedicated OEM.

Reply Score: 3

RE: Heh
by cdude on Sat 29th Oct 2011 16:04 UTC in reply to "Heh"
cdude Member since:
2008-09-21

Operator support and marketing dollars did not help on Vista either. History repeats.

Reply Score: 1

nice but....
by 2501 on Thu 27th Oct 2011 12:00 UTC
2501
Member since:
2005-07-14

They look like Blackberry phones....I thought Nokia could bring something new but apparently not. The phones are ok and it seems that they will get the job done. 1 thumb up.
-t

Reply Score: 1

RE: nice but....
by zima on Wed 2nd Nov 2011 23:52 UTC in reply to "nice but...."
zima Member since:
2005-07-06

Candybar is a traditional Nokia form factor, one which they popularised long before BB existed / it's Nokia who innovates more with form factors (check out, say, Nokia 5510, 6800, 7710). Nokia makes qwerty candybars for more than half a decade, and for some time also in the segment of least expensive S40 "feature phones", for users who nonetheless want better text entry (indeed, it's possible that C3 is the most popular qwerty candybar worldwide, not some BB - which are simply more visible, in few loud markets)

That's what Asha (particularly 200) is / how else such a phone is supposed to look like? NVM how they are only a side note to a higher profile announcement.

Reply Score: 2

WP7.5 hardware
by Not2Sure on Thu 27th Oct 2011 20:02 UTC
Not2Sure
Member since:
2009-12-07

I'm kind of surprised at the lack of a front facing camera as it was part of the WP7.5 hardware "reference" sheet and Microsoft's model was supposed to be about enforcing uniform minimum hardware requirements to prevent fragmentation.

Reply Score: 2