Linked by Thom Holwerda on Thu 1st Dec 2011 22:29 UTC
Privacy, Security, Encryption So, this has been causing a bit of a major dungstorm - and rightly so. As it turns out, many carriers are installing a piece of non-removable privacy-invading spyware on their smartphones called CarrierIQ. It doesn't matter whether you have a webOS, Android, BlackBerry or iOS device - carriers install it on all of them. Luckily though, it would appear it really depends on your carrier - smartphones in The Netherlands, for instance, are not infested with CarrierIQ. Update: As John Gruber rightfully points out, ever so verbosely, the headline here isn't particularly well-chosen. The article makes all this clear, but the headline doesn't. It's my birthday today, so my head wasn't totally in it - my apologies! Update II: Just got a statement from an HP spokesperson: "HP does not install nor authorize its partners to embed Carrier IQ on its webOS devices."
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BlackBerry, really?
by Morgan on Thu 1st Dec 2011 12:58 UTC
Morgan
Member since:
2005-06-29

I'm surprised to learn that such a thing is on BlackBerry devices, considering RIM's position that they have the most secure hardware and software combination. The fact that they would knowingly install a rootkit at the carriers' behest is quite telling.

I'm also relieved to learn that it may not be included in Windows Phone 7 devices at this time. I say "may not" because I do know that Microsoft has their own supposedly anonymous usage tracking and feedback feature. It is opt-in which was a welcome sight, and of course I left it off. Whether it is powered by CarrierIQ, I do not know.

I do know that the Privacy Statement in the phone's Settings area is quite forthcoming about past and current privacy issues, even going into detail about issues they plan to fix with the next upgrade. That really impressed me, given Microsoft's history regarding privacy issues.

Reply Score: 4

RE: BlackBerry, really?
by l3v1 on Thu 1st Dec 2011 13:53 UTC in reply to "BlackBerry, really?"
l3v1 Member since:
2005-07-06

I'm surprised to learn that such a thing is on BlackBerry devices, considering RIM's position that they have the most secure hardware and software combination.


Well, your logged data can be transmitted most securely then :/

Reply Score: 5

RE: BlackBerry, really?
by chrish on Thu 1st Dec 2011 15:08 UTC in reply to "BlackBerry, really?"
chrish Member since:
2005-07-14

If CarrierIQ is on a BlackBerry it's because the user (or their BES admin) installed it and authorized it to run, not the carrier. RIM has never authorized the carriers to install CarrierIQ.

Disclosure: I work for BlackBerry Security at RIM.

Reply Score: 6

RE[2]: BlackBerry, really?
by 1c3d0g on Thu 1st Dec 2011 18:23 UTC in reply to "RE: BlackBerry, really?"
1c3d0g Member since:
2005-07-06

There are higher forces at work here. Do you REALLY think the feds and other three letter agencies DON'T know what you're up to? That's naive, to say the least. And no, I don't wear a tinfoil hat, but it's logical to assume that once you're connected to any network, someone's watching you from somewhere...

Reply Score: 2

RE[3]: BlackBerry, really?
by zima on Sun 4th Dec 2011 15:01 UTC in reply to "RE[2]: BlackBerry, really?"
zima Member since:
2005-07-06

Unlikely on a per individual basis.

Something perhaps watches you from somewhere, as just one blip among millions to data mine - and triggers some alarm at abnormal activity, at most (with ever more higher steps in the chain gradually moving from people to software)

You're not that interesting / there are way too many virtually identical primates also running around (which also provides a nice statistical baseline, highlights what stands out)


Yes, the perfect organization, hiding its collective nature from virtually all members / that's how Skynet will come ;p

Reply Score: 2

RE[2]: BlackBerry, really?
by Morgan on Thu 1st Dec 2011 21:09 UTC in reply to "RE: BlackBerry, really?"
Morgan Member since:
2005-06-29

Interesting, I was always under the impression that the carriers had a lot of influence when it came to their unique versions of the BB OS. Back in the day I would play with different carriers' versions of the OS for the Storm phones, as I was using a Storm on AT&T's network and I wanted the best experience. There were a lot of low-level differences among each build.

That said, I imagine something like CarrierIQ would be blocked by RIM as it contradicts their marketing regarding security.

By the way, nice to see another Thief fan out there. ;) I've been trying to convince gog.com to get the rights to redistribute the Thief series in a modern playable format. So far they have kindly told me to "taff off".

Reply Score: 2

RE[3]: BlackBerry, really?
by Jondice on Thu 1st Dec 2011 21:33 UTC in reply to "RE[2]: BlackBerry, really?"
Jondice Member since:
2006-09-20

I also love the Thief games, but playing a thief/assassin in the elder scrolls games is quite similar in a lot of ways (however, it has been a long time since I played Thief, so I may be missing some points).

Reply Score: 2

RE[4]: BlackBerry, really?
by Morgan on Fri 2nd Dec 2011 11:03 UTC in reply to "RE[3]: BlackBerry, really?"
Morgan Member since:
2005-06-29

Well I still play Thief and, dated as it is, nothing comes close to the atmosphere and feel of the game world itself. It was steampunk before steampunk was in the mainstream. And taken as a whole the gameplay is unique, though many other games borrow bits and pieces from it (Assassin's Creed, Deus Ex, Metal Gear Solid etc).

I will say that the Rogue class on World of Warcraft at least gave me the stalking/stealth and pickpocketing aspects of the game, which is why I always went for a Subtlety/Assassination build when playing one.

Reply Score: 2

RE[5]: BlackBerry, really?
by zima on Sun 4th Dec 2011 14:37 UTC in reply to "RE[4]: BlackBerry, really?"
zima Member since:
2005-07-06

Well I still play Thief and, dated as it is, nothing comes close to the atmosphere and feel of the game world itself. It was steampunk before steampunk was in the mainstream.

Brazil or (particularly, with "pureness" of its steampunk) Final Fantasy VI were basically in the mainstream (not much less IMHO than it is not-really-mainstream now), quite a few years before Thief already. Maybe also The League of Extraordinary Gentlemen, or Wild Wild West (that's 3 decades before Thief - any TV series surviving for four seasons had to capture popular attention)

(and you should really say things like "nothing comes close" in a less generalised way ;p )

Also, while Jules Verne novels apparently don't qualify as steampunk, it's less clear IMHO with their relatively recent & rather mainstream film adaptations.

And taken as a whole the gameplay is unique, though many other games borrow bits and pieces from it ([...] Metal Gear Solid etc).

Thief came out in late Autumn '98, while Metal Gear Solid in Summer of 98.
It is highly unlikely the former influenced the latter - if there was some influence going on, it was the other way around.*

Especially since Thief was quite under the radar IIRC; while MGS was big - loud, massively promoted and anticipated for quite some time before its première.
Furthermore, MGS is a sequel; it is essentially, in gameplay, a 3D Metal Gear 2 - we're almost back to the '80s here.


*Indeed, while quickly verifying première dates, a nearby snippet on Thief Wikipedia article suggests the game went through some tweaking during last months of development; it seems the anticipation and positive reception of MGS acted as a major motivator and catalyst to clean up, a bit "broken" at the time, Thief.


There's also, somewhat closer in overall concept and also quite loud (I remember how it stole a bit the spotlight from MGS anticipation), Tenchu - beginning of '98.

Edited 2011-12-04 14:47 UTC

Reply Score: 2

RE[6]: BlackBerry, really?
by Morgan on Mon 5th Dec 2011 01:34 UTC in reply to "RE[5]: BlackBerry, really?"
Morgan Member since:
2005-06-29

I hadn't thought about FFVI, though it was one of my favorite games as a teen back in the early 90s. Of course back then I had no idea that there was a concept of "steampunk" outside of Jules Verne's writings and the Myst computer game.

The League comic came out after Thief and take it from an avid comic collector, it was hardly mainstream. As for WWW it was more western scifi than steampunk by far; less Victorian than U.S. Western.

(and you should really say things like "nothing comes close" in a less generalised way ;p )


I'll thank you not to try to tell me how to talk, winking or not. I maintain that there has yet to be a game with the atmosphere of Thief and Thief II. Even Thief III lost a lot of what made the game draw you in. It's an opinion, I own it and if you don't like it, too bad. But don't try to tell me how to speak. If you disagree with what I said, I'd welcome a counterpoint, not a grammar lesson.

From what I remember, it was a kind of mutual influence between Thief and MGS. I played and enjoyed both games back then, and I remember the release dates. But both studios knew what the other was working on and there was a lot of competition there. I don't have to consult (the often wildly incorrect and biased) Wikipedia to recall that. Tenchu was, from what I remember, closer to Daikatana than either Thief or MGS. It was very tightly controlled and what little stealth there was involved jumping behind a corner at the right moment, reminiscent of the Resident Evil series' annoying timing based gameplay.

Regardless, you seem to have ignored the part of my sentence that said "taken as a whole the gameplay is unique". In other words, show me another game that has Thief's combination of stealth-focused gameplay, broad exploration capabilities, sound-based stalking and intelligent AI, all in a steampunk world that draws you in the way it does. I'll say it again: Nothing comes close.

Reply Score: 2

RE[7]: BlackBerry, really?
by zima on Thu 8th Dec 2011 23:59 UTC in reply to "RE[6]: BlackBerry, really?"
zima Member since:
2005-07-06

So you forgot about something like FF6, hm...

The thing with League is how its motifs were clearly around, ingrained - I think that's actually roughly how people think of Victorian era (of past in general), in the sense that historiography, and mythology of sorts, get mixed (we are really quite bad when relating even to our own past); steampunk "merely" codifies it, brings it to front (also of fairly popular culture, like not much later film - and, sure, it was bad :p ...but at the same time, ~awesome in the world it depicted).

And not really so rigidly "Victorian"(?) - I recall Thief to be more/largely high Middle Ages (so you'd disqualify it yourself), IIRC much less "Victorian" than, say, FF6. And Wild West in general is at least roughly contemporary - just in a periphery of sorts.



As to your feelings about that one game ...expressing such in less generalised way is not a matter of grammar, but cohesion. In defending your darling, you now expect from me counterpoints to hypothesis stated in a self-fulfilling way - of course Thief is Thief. But then, many productions are similarly "unique" & "nothing comes close" to plenty of people heavily invested in turn into them (look what it does, you forgot about FF6; plus, many cognitive biases deal with "when we care about smth", NVM when we almost grew up on it), when they seek out and list enough of characteristics...
(BTW, I would add to yours: trial & error game style)


That's not what I was really after, anyway.

From what I remember, it was a kind of mutual influence between Thief and MGS.

...just how the influence on MGS was unlikely (basic chronology; now you dismiss it?). MGS was also a sequel, in development for much longer, with many "leaks" - Tenchu* partly "stole" MGS: there was a consensus of it being a quick'n'dirty - but unexpectedly quite good - game made on ruckus around MGS. It's also unclear to what degree Hideo Kojima and his team could be exposed; few barriers in-between (he was hardly informed about sequel to his own Metal Gear...)


And note I hardly claimed there was direct MGS -> Thief influence (only that "if..."), just pointed out some Wiki tidbit (seemingly with solid source, assuming the info is indeed in that book).
But, by so readily dismissing this popcultural reflection of... many ardent Thief fans (that's who makes such articles), you sort of belittle your own views. A reflection more likely to be overtly generous to Thief.



* Tenchu, beginning of 98... "shadow and sound" play - sounds familiar? Not quite like Daikatana... (which I appreciated much more than seemed typical, BTW)

Edited 2011-12-09 00:19 UTC

Reply Score: 2

RE: BlackBerry, really?
by boblowski on Thu 1st Dec 2011 22:11 UTC in reply to "BlackBerry, really?"
boblowski Member since:
2007-07-23

I'm surprised to learn that such a thing is on BlackBerry devices, considering RIM's position that they have the most secure hardware and software combination. The fact that they would knowingly install a rootkit at the carriers' behest is quite telling.


There was a statement from RIM in their BlackBerry support forums at http://supportforums.blackberry.com/t5/Java-Development/Does-Carrie... :
RIM can attest that it does not pre-install the CarrierIQ application on BlackBerry smartphones and has never done so. Furthermore, RIM does not authorize its carrier partners to install the CarrierIQ application on BlackBerry smartphones before sales or distribution and has never done so. RIM also did not develop or commission the development of the CarrierIQ application, nor is RIM involved in any way in the testing, promotion, or distribution of the CarrierIQ application.


Not sure exactly how official this statement is though. Seems kind of strange to me that a Development Advisor would be responsible for RIM's public communications.

Reply Score: 1

Doesn't Verizon carry an iPhone?
by FunkyELF on Thu 1st Dec 2011 13:06 UTC
FunkyELF
Member since:
2006-07-26

Contradictions?....

In the US, Verizon has come out as well, stating their devices do not include CarrierIQ.


it would appear this is very much a carrier-specific thing, and not a device-specific thing (except for iOS, where it's always installed, but as said, turned off)

Reply Score: 2

Thom_Holwerda Member since:
2005-06-29

It would appear Verizon isn't entirely honest - or they are simply unaware what Apple puts in iOS.

Reply Score: 1

Rogers Canada?
by jabbotts on Thu 1st Dec 2011 13:30 UTC
jabbotts
Member since:
2007-09-06

Anyone know how many of Roger's phones ship with this malware installed? Have researchers publicised the growing list as they discover carrier/device combinations infected?

Reply Score: 2

RavinRay
Member since:
2005-11-26

Wow. Violation of privacy and liberties?

I'd type "I KNOW YOU'RE SPYING ON ME" just to shove it in their faces.

Reply Score: 2

Bill Shooter of Bul Member since:
2006-07-14

I'm sure the data mining programs will really feel that burn.

I'd try going into airplane mode and carefully corrupting the files in malicious ways the data mining programmers may not have anticipated.

But as I said in another thread, I don;t have it present on my phone any more due to my CyanogenMod rom.

Reply Score: 2

Another reason good for Cyanogenmod
by kragil on Thu 1st Dec 2011 14:20 UTC
kragil
Member since:
2006-01-04

You just can't trust nobody without outside peer review PERIOD

Shit like this makes Android (from manufactures that don't pay the MSafia) easily the best platform _FOR_ME_.

Edit: Editiing the title is still buggy and does not work, will it ever be fixed?

Edited 2011-12-01 14:22 UTC

Reply Score: 5

Spyware, not rootkit
by theosib on Thu 1st Dec 2011 14:26 UTC
theosib
Member since:
2006-03-02

Actually, I'm sure it fits many of the criteria for rootkit, but when I hear "rootkit", I usually think of some kind of worm or trojan that was installed maliciously. In this case, it appears to be more like spyware, installed by the carrier or bundled with the OS. That doesn't make it a GOOD thing, of course.

Reply Score: 2

RE: Spyware, not rootkit
by Carewolf on Thu 1st Dec 2011 18:45 UTC in reply to "Spyware, not rootkit"
Carewolf Member since:
2005-09-08

The official explanation is that it is "just" spyware, but researchers that discovered it are claiming it can also take commands from the carrier.

Reply Score: 4

RE[2]: Spyware, not rootkit
by theosib on Thu 1st Dec 2011 19:04 UTC in reply to "RE: Spyware, not rootkit"
theosib Member since:
2006-03-02

Ok, then I agree that it's basically a rootkit. Seriously not cool that carriers would intentionally install something like this. Sony all over again? (Well, not quite as bad, but nearly so.)

Reply Score: 1

RE[3]: Spyware, not rootkit
by zima on Thu 8th Dec 2011 21:06 UTC in reply to "RE[2]: Spyware, not rootkit"
zima Member since:
2005-07-06

Sony rootkit wasn't collecting and transmitting anything... (it possibly created some attack vectors, sure; but that also happens with lots of appstore software, and not in overt manner; Sony rootkit case was bad enough on its "merits", no need to nurture it into anti-Sony mythology)

Reply Score: 2

CyanogenMod
by grat on Thu 1st Dec 2011 14:30 UTC
grat
Member since:
2006-02-02

... and another reason to run CyanonogenMod.

Reply Score: 8

RE: CyanogenMod
by Jondice on Thu 1st Dec 2011 15:03 UTC in reply to "CyanogenMod"
Jondice Member since:
2006-09-20

Yeah, I was pretty shocked to realize this has been on my phone for nearly 14 months (HTC Evo - thanks Sprint, for charging me for 4G where I don't have it and now this!). Switching to CM 7.1 today.

Edit: Think I'll go with these guys next: http://republicwireless.com/ Just hope they get some better phones by the time my Sprint contract is up.

Edited 2011-12-01 15:21 UTC

Reply Score: 1

RE[2]: CyanogenMod
by big_gie on Thu 1st Dec 2011 22:16 UTC in reply to "RE: CyanogenMod"
big_gie Member since:
2006-01-04

From http://republicwireless.com/how

There isn't an app for this.

And you definitely shouldn't have to download any special apps to get on the web instead of a cellular network. It should be automatic, built-in. You just use your phone.

[...]

How can I make sure that I am connected to Wi-Fi all the time?

First, make sure you set up your phone to access the Wi-Fi networks you frequent. Your phone will remember those networks and connect to them automatically. Want to login to public hotspots? Download one of several apps available from the Android Market to automate that for you.


What a nice contradiction...

Reply Score: 1

RE[2]: CyanogenMod is clean!
by glarepate on Thu 1st Dec 2011 23:11 UTC in reply to "RE: CyanogenMod"
glarepate Member since:
2006-01-04

I thought it was kind of funny that everyone seems to have forgotten about Carrier IQ and what they do. Once you tunnel down below the level of current articles there is a significant amount of information about them.

This only qualifies as 'news' because smart phones have achieved such good market penetration. Carrier IQ has been doing this since at least 2008:

http://venturebeat.com/2009/01/28/carrier-iq-rings-in-20m-to-gather...

http://www.fiercewireless.com/special-reports/carrier-iq-top-wirele...

http://www.nec.co.jp/press/en/0902/1801.html

Reply Score: 4

RE: CyanogenMod
by Bill Shooter of Bul on Thu 1st Dec 2011 15:59 UTC in reply to "CyanogenMod"
Bill Shooter of Bul Member since:
2006-07-14

Funny thing. I actually discovered CarrierIq on my captivate a couple of months ago. I didn't know what it was doing, but saw that it had full permissions to do what ever the heck it wanted and I couldn't kill it from Android's interface. Thought about running it through my own network to analyse all of the data it was sending to see if anything suspicious was being sent, but never found the time.

I just installed CyanogenMod and left it a that. Thanks to those that aren't as lazy as myself. I hope the guilty are held responsible.

Reply Score: 4

RE: CyanogenMod
by WorknMan on Thu 1st Dec 2011 20:29 UTC in reply to "CyanogenMod"
WorknMan Member since:
2005-11-13

... and another reason to run CyanonogenMod.


Or even better, buy a Nexus phone.

Reply Score: 2

Comment by MOS6510
by MOS6510 on Thu 1st Dec 2011 14:56 UTC
MOS6510
Member since:
2011-05-12

I defense of iOS, this "feature" is turned off by default and it does exactly what the included description says should you want to turn it on. So this his hardly spooky or nasty.

What some providers have installed can't be turned off and does a whole lot more logging 'n' reporting than iOS does.

Reply Score: 5

RE: Comment by MOS6510
by leos on Thu 1st Dec 2011 15:05 UTC in reply to "Comment by MOS6510"
leos Member since:
2005-09-21

I defense of iOS, this "feature" is turned off by default and it does exactly what the included description says should you want to turn it on. So this his hardly spooky or nasty.

What some providers have installed can't be turned off and does a whole lot more logging 'n' reporting than iOS does.


How was this not mentioned in the article? Thom takes extra time to poke at iOS, and yet it isn't even remotely the same. By far the biggest privacy violation with CarrierIQ is that it monitors your text input, which doesn't happen on iOS.

Lumping a user opt-in feature that logs only general usage data with a real rootkit that logs everything is pretty ridiculous.

Only thing on that list that might concern people is location, but every carrier will know that anyway. Don't expect to move in anonymity if you're carrying a cell phone.

As for Android, another reason never to buy anything but Google devices.

Reply Score: 1

RE[2]: Comment by MOS6510
by Thom_Holwerda on Thu 1st Dec 2011 16:26 UTC in reply to "RE: Comment by MOS6510"
Thom_Holwerda Member since:
2005-06-29

How was this not mentioned in the article?


Probably because it IS mentioned in the article. Several times, in fact.

Did you even read it?

Reply Score: 2

RE[3]: Comment by MOS6510
by Adam S on Thu 1st Dec 2011 16:39 UTC in reply to "RE[2]: Comment by MOS6510"
Adam S Member since:
2005-04-01

Actually, the article is a bit misleading. It's not just that it doesn't "store" the data, it flat out doesn't have access to the UI layer, so it can't see typed text, SMS messages, URLs, passwords, etc. It's just diagnostics.

Just for clarification.

Reply Score: 1

RE[2]: Comment by MOS6510
by MOS6510 on Thu 1st Dec 2011 19:54 UTC in reply to "RE: Comment by MOS6510"
MOS6510 Member since:
2011-05-12

Like Thom said, it is mentioned.

However he does describe it as a root kit, that present on Android *AND* iOS, while I'd hardly call it a root kit on iOS. It's in plan sight and does what it says it does, you can turn it off which is the default.

Apparently the Android version can't be turned off by any normal means ordinary people would be able to do.

While I consider this a big bad thing, I don't think Android has any blame, apart from that it's open nature makes it easy to embed this kind of stuff.

Reply Score: 2

RE[3]: Comment by MOS6510
by Neolander on Fri 2nd Dec 2011 07:45 UTC in reply to "RE[2]: Comment by MOS6510"
Neolander Member since:
2010-03-08

While I consider this a big bad thing, I don't think Android has any blame, apart from that it's open nature makes it easy to embed this kind of stuff.

I don't feel at ease with this kind of argument. Sharp knives are dangerous due to their open nature, yet this has never (to the best of my knowledge) led anyone to cut his meat solely with rounded-edge scissors.

Reply Score: 2

RE: Comment by MOS6510
by NathanHill on Thu 1st Dec 2011 17:48 UTC in reply to "Comment by MOS6510"
NathanHill Member since:
2006-10-06

As an iOS user, I'm certainly glad that it wasn't nearly as serious a (potential) threat as on some Android devices, but it still makes me nervous.

I think taking anonymous logs and statistics is probably helpful to companies who are genuinely looking to improve their services - the thing is, I haven't noticed tons of improvement from AT&T's coverage. Maybe if these companies are collecting this kind of data, it would be helpful if they released some kind of report of how it was helping them provide better services to their customers? A little bit of transparency, maybe?

Reply Score: 2

RE[2]: Comment by MOS6510
by MOS6510 on Thu 1st Dec 2011 19:49 UTC in reply to "RE: Comment by MOS6510"
MOS6510 Member since:
2011-05-12

It would be nice if you could see on a map how well their coverage is and if/when they are going to improve it if needed.

A few months ago I didn't have 3G when waiting at my son's school, but now I do. So things secretly do change, but it would be nice to know and even nicer if we could help (via auto diagnostics) and see what happens with this data.

Reply Score: 2

RE[3]: Comment by MOS6510
by Neolander on Fri 2nd Dec 2011 07:34 UTC in reply to "RE[2]: Comment by MOS6510"
Neolander Member since:
2010-03-08

Well, in France you have a map on some carriers' website. The only problem is that it's seriously flawed for anything but basic GSM services, because in several places, phones do detect the existence of a data network but are totally unable to do anything with it.

PS : Oh, and happy birthday Thom !

Edited 2011-12-02 07:48 UTC

Reply Score: 1

RE: Comment by MOS6510
by Soulbender on Sat 3rd Dec 2011 04:25 UTC in reply to "Comment by MOS6510"
Soulbender Member since:
2005-08-18

In defense of iOS, this "feature" is turned off by default and it does exactly what the included description says should you want to turn it on


Except that a) the carrier can turn it on before they ship your device and b) most people don't know it exists.
In a way, it's actually worse than android since at least then the carrier has to go through the work of installing it while with iOS all they need to to do is turn it on.

Reply Score: 2

RE[2]: Comment by MOS6510
by MOS6510 on Sat 3rd Dec 2011 04:46 UTC in reply to "RE: Comment by MOS6510"
MOS6510 Member since:
2011-05-12

How can it be worse if it doesn't log 'n' report keystrokes, CAN be turned off?

Besides I haven't read carriers turning it on before handing out iPhones. Apparently the iOS welcome routine asks the user if they want to turn diagnostics on.

No way Apple would ever allow anyone, carriers or other companies, to change anything on their products without them doing it for them (and even then they probably wouldn't).

Reply Score: 1

Comment by zima
by zima on Thu 8th Dec 2011 20:57 UTC in reply to "RE[2]: Comment by MOS6510"
zima Member since:
2005-07-06

In the real world, phones of clueless users are often set up in-store; carrier staff being able to do essentially anything with their settings.
For some time now, iOS devices don't even need iTunes for activation... (though bringing a laptop, for assistance with the process, wasn't beyond possible)

Reply Score: 2

CarrierIQ?
by bloodline on Thu 1st Dec 2011 15:14 UTC
bloodline
Member since:
2008-07-28

Do we know that the iPhone one is CarrierIQ or Apple? I'd not be surprised if it was an apple thing. Anyway I decided to opt in, I'm not doing anything weird or illegal... I'll make sure I turn it off if I do ;)

Reply Score: 1

RE: CarrierIQ?
by Bill Shooter of Bul on Thu 1st Dec 2011 16:03 UTC in reply to "CarrierIQ?"
Bill Shooter of Bul Member since:
2006-07-14

By your standards you aren't doing anything illegal or weird; unfortunately, that isn't a very goo defence in the court of law.

Have you insulted the Royal Family of Thailand? Advocated for the rights of women to an education, voting, or driving?

If you have you may have violated the laws of countries that may hold you accountable for your "crimes" should you visit them.

Reply Score: 3

RE: CarrierIQ?
by shmerl on Thu 1st Dec 2011 22:03 UTC in reply to "CarrierIQ?"
shmerl Member since:
2010-06-08

So you don't mind them collecting your passwords which you type in?

Reply Score: 3

RE[2]: CarrierIQ?
by majipoor on Thu 1st Dec 2011 22:10 UTC in reply to "RE: CarrierIQ?"
majipoor Member since:
2009-01-22

On iOS, CarrierIQ does not have access to the UI layer and do not log any keystroke or web history.

Reply Score: 1

EU privacy
by JAlexoid on Thu 1st Dec 2011 15:45 UTC
JAlexoid
Member since:
2009-05-19

You can be totally sure that your EU device comes without CIQ. Carrier IQ is most certainly illegal by EU privacy standards. It's worse when compared to tracking a user geographically that is barely legal in EU.
(For example, operators in Europe are not allowed to track your location and use that information for anything other than network performance management)

Reply Score: 3

Not worse than the rest
by zimbatm on Thu 1st Dec 2011 16:55 UTC
zimbatm
Member since:
2005-08-22

Do people forget ? It's not like they are the only ones to do that.

Just install "Little snitch" on your Mac. You'll be surprised how many software phone back (including the system).

WebOS sends a ton of information to HP, you need to crack the phone to disable the feature. iOS and Android collect wifi data points and send them to the vendors.

Cell carriers store your cell locations.

All your mails are stored by Google, Hotmail or your ISP. Even if you delete them they are kept around to comply to US law.

Search engines like Google and Bing keep a history of your search and can easily find out who you are in terms of preferences.

AD businesses like Google, Facebook, .. are present on a vast majority of pages and can thus track you even outside of their site.

Did I forget something ? It's almost impossible to avoid all these traps and it requires a lot of effort.

Reply Score: 3

most carriers
by browndog on Thu 1st Dec 2011 17:00 UTC
browndog
Member since:
2011-12-01

This is usually a requirement from the carrier. Check with the carrier if they use consumer information from your phone and read the fine print in your contract. There are other products that gather info too on your phone.

Reply Score: 1

over the top as usual
by kristoph on Thu 1st Dec 2011 21:43 UTC
kristoph
Member since:
2006-01-01

CarrierIQ makes different software for different devices and even several different versions for some devices (Android, Nokia).

Only a small number of Android devices have the invasive version of the software which could be considered a rootkit.

The iOS version of the software does only what it claims (which is basically monitoring of signal quality, dropped calls, etc.) This type of software is designed to improve call quality and is, anyway, OPT-IN.

The RIM version is, to my knowledge, not installed on any device and requires that a user install it and authorize it.

Reply Score: 1

happy birthday :)
by SeeM on Thu 1st Dec 2011 22:46 UTC
SeeM
Member since:
2011-09-10

First! ;)

Reply Score: 2

maybe not so much with IOS
by briancgillespie on Thu 1st Dec 2011 23:20 UTC
briancgillespie
Member since:
2011-12-01

I was talking to a friend last night about this and he commented to me that there is no CarrierIQ software on IOS devices, but Apple does use the CarrierIQ servers to report certain types of data to some carriers when users elect to share diagnostic information. Sorry I can't share my friend's name.

Reply Score: 1

happy birthday
by muszek on Thu 1st Dec 2011 23:22 UTC
muszek
Member since:
2007-04-25

... and thanks for all the great work!

Reply Score: 1

Happy Birthday!
by Janvl on Thu 1st Dec 2011 23:26 UTC
Janvl
Member since:
2007-02-20
This is just the beginning ...
by benali72 on Thu 1st Dec 2011 23:27 UTC
benali72
Member since:
2008-05-03

This is just the beginning of what we can expect vendors to place on smartphones. There will be much more "helpful" crap installed on your phone in the future.

Why? The public is too dumb to know what this means or how it works against their interests, and smartphones and other "tethered devices" are consider closed, owned ecosystems by their vendors.

Did you see that some malls now track you via your cellphones as you shop? See <a href="http://www.chicagotribune.com/business/breaking/blackfriday/chi-mal....

Reply Score: 2

US-only
by 3rdalbum on Fri 2nd Dec 2011 02:59 UTC
3rdalbum
Member since:
2008-05-26

It seems to be US-only. Still, if we spread the word about Carrier IQ it might cause people to stop buying phones from carriers.

The second-biggest concern about Carrier IQ is "This company is spying on us.". The biggest concern is "Can attackers use the Carrier IQ system to spy on us?".

If I had one of the affected phones I'd certainly try typing in: "; DROP database;

:-)

Reply Score: 3

RE: US-only
by MasterNayru on Fri 2nd Dec 2011 06:38 UTC in reply to "US-only"
MasterNayru Member since:
2011-11-12

It seems to be US-only.


I'm living in Japan and it's on my au HTC Evo WiMAX ...

Reply Score: 1

RE[2]: US-only
by 3rdalbum on Fri 2nd Dec 2011 07:52 UTC in reply to "RE: US-only"
3rdalbum Member since:
2008-05-26

"It seems to be US-only.


I'm living in Japan and it's on my au HTC Evo WiMAX ...
"

Sorry to tell you this, but since the end of the war Japan has almost been a colony of the United States. Okay, so Carrier IQ is only present in countries that use NTSC TVs ;)

Reply Score: 2

RE[3]: US-only
by zima on Thu 8th Dec 2011 21:27 UTC in reply to "RE[2]: US-only"
zima Member since:
2005-07-06

Though Japan did break away with digital TV, spearheaded their own standard ...which, curiously, also became the dominating one in Latin America (something about giving the finger for, more or less, a century of - figurative - interference?); and who knows about Africa (Chinese standard might also get some footing there, with PRC involvement in the region)

Though, really, ISDB was probably the best choice out of big three standards... (ATSC the worst; it seems Brazil did actual studies to asses them, reviewed later by each standard body)

So maybe times are changin', and we have mostly just remnants of the old days via installed base and such. The adoption of NTSC successor is essentially limited to immediate US neighbours ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Digital_broadcast_standards.svg ) and South Korea (so they would seem more of a colony for some reason, I guess ;p )

Reply Score: 2

another sidenote
by MysterMask on Sat 3rd Dec 2011 12:05 UTC
MysterMask
Member since:
2005-07-12

As a sidenote, it amuses me to no end how


.. hypocrites talking about the reality distortion fields of Steve Jobs, Apple fanboys and the like now again talk mostly about iOS (see discussion above), deliberately remain silent about the situation in Android land ..

Reply Score: 1

Comment by zima
by zima on Thu 8th Dec 2011 20:48 UTC in reply to "another sidenote"
zima Member since:
2005-07-06

Well, quick ctrl+F "ios" reveals posts containing a defence of sorts or desiring to clarify the situation with iOS ...initiated by locally known, ardent Apple defendants (or Applebots, in some cases). Otherwise, plenty of concern about the situation on Android.

Nothing out of the ordinary (unless one is under RDF, I suppose)

Reply Score: 2