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I wanted to vote you +1000 but I'd rather make a distinction between the three of them:

- Marco Arment is a developer who occasionally writes useful software;

- John Gruber tries to appear reasonable but, since he really isn't, can't keep up the pretense for very long;

- MG Siegler, on the other hand, has no redeeming features whatsoever -- but he could have been a great pon-pon girl!


RT.

Gruber is an Apple marketing bot. Everybody who reads his crap even just because so many people read it is ugly and stupid. Sorry, Gruber has the most one-sided view of the world one can think of. If you think you have a brain and you read Gruber you don't really have one and I don't really get why he is mentioned so often everywhere. That one ad on his site (which everybody probably reads via RSS) pays for his family? Yeah sure ... Apple is paying. No doubt about that.

I read enough of his garbage to make up own mind. And even now his "correction"(well update) is more like: "Yeah well, I suck as a blogger and don't check my sources but I am still great and IOS is still pure awesomeness and Android sucks and everything I wrote is still kind of right although it was proven to be wrong.

Everybody who reads that kind of horse manure needs to get his head checked PERIOD

And Apple is nicer, more of a friend, etc... ?

In today's world, as long as you have a connection, whether it be a cell phone, home phone, cable, internet, or anything, you have given your information to the world. Even buying a car, you sign those papers, and they sell your information to the world. Why? Becahse they make money. At least with Google, I am aware of this, and it is known, unlike other companies who try and hide the fact. Everyone knows Google makes money off of the people who use their products, but people are ignorant to think companies like, Apple, HP, Dell, and others do not.

There are companies that do not do that, and actively fight against it. Take Mozilla for example.

Er, what? Mozilla makes most of its money from Google: http://www.osnews.com/comments/25398

(Comments removed by user)

Edited 2011-12-08 13:36 UTC

What has this to do with Thom's post? Short attention span or? ;-)


RT.

Char-perfect copy of a post he made somewhere else. It made sense in the context of the topic where it was initially posted.

But Google knows as much about users of its services and products as Apple, or any other service provider. To their credit Google manages to attract so many users despite spending frugal amounts for advertising when compared to humongous ad budget of Apple (which was almost $700 million in 2010).

The only difference is that with Microsoft and Apple you PAY real money for the privilege of having you data shared with advertisers. Thanks but not thanks. Either way I'll go the free route.

There is a big difference between Apple and Google. Google's entire business hinges on advertising and their primary goal is to increase that through different vectors (Android being one). Apple makes their money from selling devices and software, and it is in their best interest to protect the experience of their users.

It's just a question of motivations. The whole point of android is to increase advertising revenues for Google. Given equal scenarios, I'd much rather trust my data to Apple (or Microsoft for that matter, although they are also expanding into advertising)

Edited 2011-12-08 16:04 UTC

I agree we need to step back from the brink occasionally, this is really a whole lot of hot air in a cold bag from Boise.

There are many valuable causes that deserve our attention more, I would leave it up to each to find one that suits their beliefs. I also understand that this can actually just be a past time for some, and as that its okay too. We can only save the world for so long before we have to save ourselves from the weight of trying to save the world.

ok. I'll bite.

Marco: "Is he implying that Android is widely disliked, and it doesn’t matter to him?"

Gruber: "I can’t see any way to read his remarks other than as an acknowledgement that Android is widely disliked by developers, and that he doesn’t mind this because he doesn’t think it matters."

Siegler: "It sounds arrogant and worse, as Gruber follows up with, it sure sounds like Google is missing the bigger picture: it’s not just Android these developers are overlooking, it’s Windows."

See, all three are parroting the point about developers not liking Android. Which, maybe they don't, but that isn't the point. The point is that the text quoted from Schmidt was wrong. Next time click on the links and read them for yourself.

ok. I'll bite.

Marco: "Is he implying that Android is widely disliked, and it doesn’t matter to him?" "

Which is not a quote that says, or even implies "Schmidt knows no developer likes Android."



Yes, Gruber does make a claim that is similar to what Thom said.



Which says absolutely nothing about whether developers like or dislike Android and does not fit Thom's claim.



I did read them myself, and what was said does not fit Thom's claim. Your quotes of them do not fit Thom's claim. Your description of Thom's claim isn't even accurate. Since Thom is all up in arms about misquotes, perhaps he should make a correction this post since he is, flat out, misquoting at least two individuals.

Get your head out of your a.. and stop rambling like a moron. The whole point of Thoms posting was about all three of them using a "quote", published by the third party, without first checking the original source!

SIGLER also quoted the same twisted phrase"

Thom just pointed out that, in their blind hatred for everything non apple, all of these guys jumped the gun as soon as the quoted phrase hit the web... they are sad excuses for human beings

I don't think his post implied that only Apple have fanboys, although I believe they were one of the first companies in computer history that actively tried to turn otherwise smart people into these sub-human things.

Steve (the Jobs one) wanted no one messing with his products, but his intention was for them to enrich people's lives by making stuff easier to use than other stuff.

It's a concept that he held true until his death I guess. Apple product are easy, simple to you with uncluttered interfaces. A lot of effort went in to this.

Real geeky power users probably won't like this, as it takes away a lot of possibilities to fiddle around with stuff, but the masses seem to like it.

I don't see how Apple sees its customers as subhumans, although some probably are.

Uhm... I guess my post was really badly written. Here's take 2.

There are these partially subhuman things called fanboys, roaming the internet and mindlessly defending a company, which we both agree the OP was referring to. But I don't think that he implied that only Apple has some.

However, on an unrelated note, I believe that Apple were one of the first computing companies to use so-called "evangelism" marketing techniques, that actively attempt to spread religious faith in the user base, effectively creating fanboys.

Edited 2011-12-08 19:40 UTC

Apple, Google and MS are not your friend, but they are not your enemy either. They are companies.

Never did I claim to be unbiased when it comes to apple. You totally missfired on this one

Either I can't read or you are a deliberate liar!! All three people have the missquoted phrase on their pages, with Marco adding an update where he stands corrected.



You know it isn't that hard to click on the links that are provided by Thom and see the missquoted phrases for yourself ... you know just move the mouse to the appropriate location and click on the link ... when you are done with that talk about hypocrisy again



Thank you from the bottom of my heart for this nomination. I will strive to provide enlightment to all iZombies and free them from iClaws.

Never did I claim to be unbiased when it comes to apple. You totally missfired on this one

Either I can't read or you are a deliberate liar!! All three people have the missquoted phrase on their pages, with Marco adding an update where he stands corrected. "

Thom claims all three said "Schmidt knows no developer likes Android." Find a quote of Marco or MG saying that.



You know it isn't that hard to click on the links that are provided by Thom and see the missquoted phrases for yourself ... you know just move the mouse to the appropriate location and click on the link ... when you are done with that talk about hypocrisy again "

Which is irrelevant to what I was saying. Thom claims all three said "Schmidt knows no developer likes Android." Find a quote of Marco or MG saying that. You can't, because they didn't. So Thom is accusing people of commenting on a misquote (they didn't make up the misquote, they commented on it) and in his accusation is claiming they said something they clearly didn't. THOM IS LYING ABOUT WHAT MARCO AND MG SAID. Is that clear enough for you?

Please provide the quote from Thom's write up for this statement or admit that you still need to attend elementaru school and learn how to read

Which is not a quote that says, or even implies "Schmidt knows no developer likes Android." "

This is a common rhetorical technique. The fact you fall for it is interesting.



Which says absolutely nothing about whether developers like or dislike Android and does not fit Thom's claim. "

Wrong part of Siegler's article. Here is where he says what I was referring to:



So, 3/3. Nice try.

Which is not a quote that says, or even implies "Schmidt knows no developer likes Android." "

This is a common rhetorical technique. The fact you fall for it is interesting. [/q]

It's a common rhetorical technique that doesn't say what you are claiming. Marco is asking if Schmidt cares if developers like Android, he is not implying that Schmidt knows no developers like Android. There is vast difference between caring about developers feelings and musing about their actual feelings. You were talking about the latter, not the former.



Which says absolutely nothing about whether developers like or dislike Android and does not fit Thom's claim. "

Wrong part of Siegler's article. Here is where he says what I was referring to:



So, 3/3. Nice try. [/q]

Except MG said that his experience is that developers don't like developing for Android, he isn't attributing that sentiment to Eric Schmidt. Because, if we don't stop there (notice the dangling colon) the point MG is making is "If all developers cared about was scale, they’d go with Windows. But they don’t. And Google would be wise to at least try to understand why this is the case." In other words, for MG the interesting thing about Schmidt statement is it ignores developer preference and simply talks about scale. Since 99% of the developers MG talked to said they like iOS better, and if scale is the only thing which is going to bring developers in the Android phone, they why don't they develop for Windows (or Symbian for that matter). Nothing about what MG is saying comes even close to what you are claiming.

So no, it isn't 3/3 unless you really think that reading deep meanings into words that plainly mean something different is a legitimate quoting technique. Seriously, it's almost insulting that you are trying to twist things to cover the fact that you are lying about what other people are saying to fit your narrative about what terrible people they are. It's disgusting and you should be ashamed.

Rhavyn- If you read the links, you would see that all three people clealy believe that developers like iOS and dislike Android. Further, the text Thom quoted what on all three of their sites. Its not text that the thrhee authors said, its text that they misquoted. Thom clearly expressed that in his article. Further, what these authors think is really irrelevant, compared to the fact that they used cnet as a source, which completely misquoted Schmidt.

You completely missed my point. Thom is claiming it's terrible that they commented on a missed quote. But in THIS VERY ARTICLE, Thom is completely making up the fact they Marco and MG said something. I didn't say anything about whether the three like iOS or dislike Android, because it's absolutely irrelevant to the point. Thom is flat out lying about what people are saying.

Well, you're failing at convincing anyone here about that, so have you considered you're wrong?

Well, you're failing at convincing anyone here about that, so have you considered you're wrong? "

No, there is absolutely no way that anyone who knows English can read Marco or MGs comments and come out with the message "Schmidt knows no developer likes Android." They didn't say that, period.

And, really, not one person who has "disagreed" with me, except you, has actually disputed my point. They are commenting on the "misquote" aspect of this, which is hysterical since you aren't just misquoting people, you are flat out making things up.

Or just don't know how to read!! Either post the sentence where Thom claimed that any one of the three sources made a statement or apologize to everyone who wasted their time reading your hysterical ramblings. Here is a quote from Thom's write up:

To every sane person this sentence is very simple and easy to understand. Why can't you understand it?? Please quote Thom's article to prove your point or stop rambling incoherently.

Edited 2011-12-09 04:59 UTC

Have you considered that maybe a lot of people are put off from participating in the discussions here by the general atmosphere and the lopsided discussions? That's how I feel, by the way (which is why I usually never bother to comment here, it's pointless, unless you like experiencing pain).

Now, I do think it's bad that Gruber and the other guys fell for the misquotes (and I don't like nor read his blog). It's really crappy. And I'd wish they'd cut back some of their righteousness. Then again, I'd wish the same for OSnews...

By the way, the three guys did upside their blog posts by now, addressing the misquote. Maybe you want to update your post, too, mentioning that? After all, you are right to say "They are all influential bloggers or websites, and should know better by now." Then again, isn't OSNews an influential website, so shouldn't you have learned, too? Yet you point to a misquote of your own in the article from a few days ago, and proudly announce how you stand up to your mistakes, making it sound as if those guys didn't... Seems a bit unfair to me.

Anyway, I'll creep back to my hole now. For it feels *really* silly to keep riding up and down on this particular issue. At the end of the day, Gruber, OSNews etc. matter very little to the whole of the world. I am much more upset by the gross misquotes, misrepresentations and false explanations put forth by major news papers and TV news shows every day, which reach a much wider audience and have a much bigger influence on things :-(. Compared to those, the influence of Gruber, OSnews and the others seem rather insignificant. (Which, of course, is no excuse not to properly do research before on whether quotes and other facts are correct!)