Linked by Thom Holwerda on Fri 13th Jan 2012 22:45 UTC, submitted by bowkota
Google It really hasn't been Google's week. First the entire internet exploded because of some uninteresting nonsense regarding social networking (really internet?), but today something happened that's actually a bad thing and worth talking about: in Kenya, Google has been caught accessing the databases of a competing business, and offering Google's own product to the people in the database. Google has already apologised, and is currently investigating the matter.
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Do no evil
by sbergman27 on Fri 13th Jan 2012 23:09 UTC
sbergman27
Member since:
2005-07-24

Kinda throws a wet blanket on the "Do No Evil" slogan when individuals can exploit that powerful concentration of collected data to do as they please.

I think Google, the company, is pure gold. But Google, the collection of individual employees? That has to be evaluated on a case by case basis.

Fortunately, other than my bank card number, no one could possibly have the slightest interest in my humble life-stream.

I've always found the realization of how unimportant I am to be oddly comforting. I've got plenty of nothing. And nothing's plenty for me.

-Steve

Reply Score: 3

RE: Do no evil
by JLF65 on Sat 14th Jan 2012 00:39 UTC in reply to "Do no evil"
JLF65 Member since:
2005-07-06

The MAIN POINT to consider here is these were PEOPLE IN KENYA that were responsible. That they happened to work for Google instead of someone else is the red herring. Corruption in Kenya is rampant, and it affects EVERYONE, even Google. If you RTFA, you would see that Google, the parent company, set up the sting that trapped their Kenyan employees who were doing this. So Google IS living up to their motto, even if the odd employee in places of extreme corruption are not.

Reply Score: 6

RE[2]: Do no evil
by sbergman27 on Sat 14th Jan 2012 02:10 UTC in reply to "RE: Do no evil"
sbergman27 Member since:
2005-07-24

Now, wait a minute. Before I respond to you, I would like to make sure that I understand your argument. IIRC, you are saying that Google (a company for which I have high respect) is not to blame. And that we shouldn't worry about having large amounts of valuable private information stored by them, because the *real* problem is that all those damn niggers in Kenya are corrupt.

Did I get that right? If so, I have some objections to your stance.

Reply Score: 1

RE[3]: Do no evil
by DoctorD on Sat 14th Jan 2012 04:54 UTC in reply to "RE[2]: Do no evil"
DoctorD Member since:
2009-03-08

*Wow*
Spin doctor of the day!

Reply Score: 2

RE[4]: Do no evil
by sbergman27 on Sat 14th Jan 2012 05:07 UTC in reply to "RE[3]: Do no evil"
sbergman27 Member since:
2005-07-24

*Wow* Spin doctor of the day!

A slight application of hyperbole to make a point. The sky is not falling. But there is reasonable cause for concern. Complacency kills.

Reply Score: 2

RE[3]: Do no evil
by earksiinni on Mon 16th Jan 2012 04:09 UTC in reply to "RE[2]: Do no evil"
earksiinni Member since:
2009-03-27

Wow...

I know that you probably think that you were being not racist or anti-racist by hyperbolically exposing what you saw as the latent racist intent of the preceding comment with an incredibly offensive and vulgar term, but in fact all you did was unnecessarily add a racial component that had no place whatsoever, neither in the conversation nor in the original poster's point.

As a matter of fact, Kenya is notorious for its endemic corruption at all levels of society and government; JLF65's point was that in a country with a culture of corruption, it is unsurprising that the local operations of foreign multinationals get bound up in that corruption. This is due to the endemic nature of the corruption in the country rather than the corruption of the company itself.

It's so obvious that that's what JLF65 is saying that it really makes me wonder why you are making a link between race and corruption. On the eve of a day (in the U.S., at least) meant to commemorate the memory of a great civil rights leader, maybe it should make you wonder, too.

P.S.: I have some sympathy if you are perhaps not an American or unfamiliar with the implications of that word you used to describe black Kenyans, but you should know that people generally find it not only offensive but personally hurtful whenever its used regardless of the speaker's intent, whether it be ironic or well-intentioned or not.

Reply Score: 2

RE[2]: Do no evil
by gan17 on Sat 14th Jan 2012 11:28 UTC in reply to "RE: Do no evil"
gan17 Member since:
2008-06-03

Assuming the "upper-echelons" at Google knew nothing about this, then I see your point, but that's what happens when you're a big-ass multinational company.

All the interns are probably goody-goody-my-little-pony over at Goog's main HQ, but the same can't be said for staff further from the mothership. "Rogue employees" are everywhere, MS, Apple, Google and they're all trying to make a quick buck. It's the cost of expansion. Sooner or later, the "collective-zaibatsu" mentally dies and the daily salaryman starts worrying about his own ass... human nature.

But at the end of the day, like it or not, the company/corporation should be held responsible regardless. It's their name that was being used in the "scam" and it's the individual(s) they hired that caused it. External forces like the country's corruption index or whether the individual went into debt because of his wife's gambling habits are secondary.

Kind of an unfair generalization here, but imagine if a worker at Bridgestone intentionally let out a malfunctioning tyre, which ends up being the cause of someone's death on the freeway somewhere. Yes, they could track the guy down and even send him to jail, but that doesn't excuse Bridgestone in the least.

Reply Score: 1

RE[3]: Do no evil
by JLF65 on Sat 14th Jan 2012 17:34 UTC in reply to "RE[2]: Do no evil"
JLF65 Member since:
2005-07-06

I didn't say that excused them, and certainly Google itself didn't feel it excused them... they were apologizing and trying to make things right with the people affected. They accepted responsibility for what their employees did... unlike many other companies we've seen in the news who feel that once a scapegoat is designated, the company is spotless.

Google isn't perfect, but they're miles ahead of the competition when it comes to responsible corporate actions. Most don't even feel that they've done any wrong so long as it makes the shareholders money. "The bottom line is the only consideration." It's been the corporate mantra for decades now.

Reply Score: 3

RE[2]: Do no evil
by timalot on Sat 14th Jan 2012 23:52 UTC in reply to "RE: Do no evil"
timalot Member since:
2006-07-17

If you read the blog post is was not just Kenyans calling. There were also calls from Google India.

Reply Score: 1

RE: Do no evil
by Soulbender on Sat 14th Jan 2012 03:39 UTC in reply to "Do no evil"
Soulbender Member since:
2005-08-18

Kinda throws a wet blanket on the "Do No Evil" slogan


I think that ship sailed long ago.
Only the most gullible and blue-eyed person would ever think that slogan meant anything.

individuals can exploit that powerful concentration of collected data to do as they please.


Sure but on the other hand it's impossible to completely prevent abuse. The fact that some idiotic employees did something incredibly stupid doesn't necessarily reflect badly on google the company,

Reply Score: 3

RE[2]: Do no evil
by sbergman27 on Sat 14th Jan 2012 05:22 UTC in reply to "RE: Do no evil"
sbergman27 Member since:
2005-07-24

I think that ship sailed long ago.
Only the most gullible and blue-eyed person would ever think that slogan meant anything.

My eyes are dark brown. But... I'm still just gullible enough to think that Google is doing a damned fine job.

Mon Dieu! The good they do. The quality educational programming they provide. The quality search service they provide. The way they stood up in that face-off against the Chinese government when it would have been much easier, safer, and probably more lucrative to just accede to the demands.

Still, somewhere in the back of my mind, there is an anti-complacency alarm going off regarding the arsenal of data they hold. Maybe nothing to worry about. But no Pollyanna am I. ;-)

-Steve

Reply Score: 1

RE[3]: Do no evil
by jared_wilkes on Sat 14th Jan 2012 22:01 UTC in reply to "RE[2]: Do no evil"
jared_wilkes Member since:
2011-04-25
RE[4]: Do no evil
by sbergman27 on Sun 15th Jan 2012 03:05 UTC in reply to "RE[3]: Do no evil"
sbergman27 Member since:
2005-07-24

Oops. Scratch that one of your list.

No. Their pulling out of China was always of questionable value, IMO. It's the clever ways they came up with for *remaining* in China while circumventing the Great Firewall that were of the greatest value.

I would strongly argue that while pulling out makes a nice political or moral statement, you really can't address the problems in China without *engaging* in China.

We'll have to watch what happens and evaluate accordingly. The potential for future abuse of the concentration of data they hold (either by a future ownership/managerment, or by rogue employees) concerns me.

But for now, I think that Google itself, in its current incarnation is still golden.

Come on. Even if you don't agree with their actions in China today, when was the last time *you* faced off with one of the most powerful governments in the world?

-Steve

Reply Score: 2

RE[5]: Do no evil
by jared_wilkes on Sun 15th Jan 2012 16:46 UTC in reply to "RE[4]: Do no evil"
jared_wilkes Member since:
2011-04-25

"Even if you don't agree with their actions in China today, when was the last time *you* faced off with one of the most powerful governments in the world?"

Why would I even posit such a silly question and think it says anything about Google?

The question is: do I actually think Google "stood up to" China when they are now admitting they need China's business and are looking to reverse or at least increase other business in China not long after?

The answer is: No, I don't.

Reply Score: 1

RE[6]: Do no evil
by sbergman27 on Sun 15th Jan 2012 20:01 UTC in reply to "RE[5]: Do no evil"
sbergman27 Member since:
2005-07-24

Why would I even posit such a silly question and think it says anything about Google?

It was an important market. They were trying to act as ethically as possible in a difficult situation. And they let their ethical stance and strategy cause them to make a rash move which, in retrospect, may not have been the wisest move, from either the standpoint of their ethical or business goals.

The question is: do I actually think Google "stood up to" China when they are now admitting they need China's business and are looking to reverse or at least increase other business in China not long after?

Years after.

But I've learned to limit the time I allocate to people promoting agendas *against* this or that. Rarely is it a productive use of time.

You hate Google? Fine. I am merely concerned about particulars.

I will continue to watch, wait, and evaluate according to my observations.

Reply Score: 2

RE[7]: Do no evil
by thavith_osn on Sun 15th Jan 2012 22:02 UTC in reply to "RE[6]: Do no evil"
thavith_osn Member since:
2005-07-11

Years after - LOL...

Reply Score: 2

...
by Hiev on Fri 13th Jan 2012 23:09 UTC
Hiev
Member since:
2005-09-27

Oh, and for Google "Investigating the matter" is translated into:

"And who the hell should we blame now? or Version Control System? or a third party contractor? ".

Edited 2012-01-13 23:10 UTC

Reply Score: 1

RE: ...
by sdeber on Sun 15th Jan 2012 13:49 UTC in reply to "..."
sdeber Member since:
2005-07-06

I think Google is going to conclude that this is totally a personal misbehavior of the employee, hence it absolutely has nothing to do with Google.

Reply Score: 0

monopoly abuse
by kristoph on Fri 13th Jan 2012 23:32 UTC
kristoph
Member since:
2006-01-01

I personally think the fact that their obviously favoring their products in search is a much bigger deal.

If Microsoft did that everyone would be calling for their head but Google gets a free pass, really?

]{

Reply Score: 2

RE: monopoly abuse
by Thom_Holwerda on Fri 13th Jan 2012 23:50 UTC in reply to "monopoly abuse"
Thom_Holwerda Member since:
2005-06-29

I personally think the fact that their obviously favoring their products in search is a much bigger deal.

If Microsoft did that everyone would be calling for their head but Google gets a free pass, really?

]{


Twitter pulled out of a deal with Google. Facebook is entirely closed off. Nw they are complaining about Google+? Pussies. The fact of the matter is that had Google included Twitter and Facebook data anyway, those two (and the anti-Google/pro-Apple standing army with them) would have screamed bloody murder *as well*.

This is such non-news.

Reply Score: 1

RE[2]: monopoly abuse
by David on Sat 14th Jan 2012 00:27 UTC in reply to "RE: monopoly abuse"
David Member since:
1997-10-01

It's such non-news that when you mentioned it, I didn't know what you were talking about, even though I read all about it a couple of days ago when it was the big story.

I agree with you. I think that Google would be happy to index all of Twitter and Facebook, but it makes strategic sense for Twitter and Facebook to exert more control over their ecosystems, and that's fine. But then you don't get to complain about Google favoring its own social network.

Reply Score: 3

RE[3]: monopoly abuse
by Tony Swash on Sat 14th Jan 2012 00:46 UTC in reply to "RE[2]: monopoly abuse"
Tony Swash Member since:
2009-08-22

It's such non-news that when you mentioned it, I didn't know what you were talking about, even though I read all about it a couple of days ago when it was the big story.

I agree with you. I think that Google would be happy to index all of Twitter and Facebook, but it makes strategic sense for Twitter and Facebook to exert more control over their ecosystems, and that's fine. But then you don't get to complain about Google favoring its own social network.


I think it is a mistake to be sanguine about this.

Here is some interesting analysis

http://marketingland.com/schmidt-google-not-favored-happy-to-talk-t...

http://www.benedelman.org/news/011212-1.html

http://parislemon.com/post/15664060982/misdirection-doublespeak-non...

Reply Score: 0

v RE[2]: monopoly abuse
by Tony Swash on Sat 14th Jan 2012 00:38 UTC in reply to "RE: monopoly abuse"
RE[3]: monopoly abuse
by Radio on Sat 14th Jan 2012 00:45 UTC in reply to "RE[2]: monopoly abuse"
Radio Member since:
2009-06-20


This article is so wrong I don't know where to begin. My goodness.

Reply Score: 2

RE[3]: monopoly abuse
by Thom_Holwerda on Sat 14th Jan 2012 00:47 UTC in reply to "RE[2]: monopoly abuse"
Thom_Holwerda Member since:
2005-06-29

Your love fest with Google knows no bounds.


-1 for trolling.

Look up the article history on OSNews. Heck, just check the Android review. I'm not going to read a comment that starts with that nonsense.

Reply Score: 1

RE[4]: monopoly abuse
by Tony Swash on Sat 14th Jan 2012 10:55 UTC in reply to "RE[3]: monopoly abuse"
Tony Swash Member since:
2009-08-22

"Your love fest with Google knows no bounds.


-1 for trolling.

Look up the article history on OSNews. Heck, just check the Android review. I'm not going to read a comment that starts with that nonsense.
"


I started my comment with that because you ended yours with this:

This is such non-news.


Your response conveniently means you don't have to respond to any of my points (which I thought were reasonably laid out). You think what happened with Twitter, Facebook, Google+ and Google search is a non-issue. Not worth of a discussion. Insignificant. I was suggesting that it is was indicative of a business model whose affects on the web and upon all of us was worth a critical look.

Reply Score: 2

RE[3]: monopoly abuse
by gan17 on Sat 14th Jan 2012 01:04 UTC in reply to "RE[2]: monopoly abuse"
gan17 Member since:
2008-06-03

Got chased away from DailyTech again, I see.

Your love fest with Google knows no bounds.


I agree that Thom does give the impression that he's a Goo-lover at times, but it pales in comparison to the butt-f*ck fest you have going on with Apple.

Reply Score: 2

RE[4]: monopoly abuse
by Tony Swash on Sat 14th Jan 2012 11:00 UTC in reply to "RE[3]: monopoly abuse"
Tony Swash Member since:
2009-08-22

Got chased away from DailyTech again, I see.


Leaving aside our differences - have you noticed something wrong with the commenting system at Dailey Tech in recent days? Its seems to have frozen up. I wanted to know it wasn't a problem at my end. I tried accessing the site via different browsers and different OS's but the comments system seems to have locked up. Are you seeing this as well?

Reply Score: 2

RE[5]: monopoly abuse
by gan17 on Sat 14th Jan 2012 11:42 UTC in reply to "RE[4]: monopoly abuse"
gan17 Member since:
2008-06-03

Yes, I was rather crude there, excuse my behaviour.

Regarding DT, I don't know and couldn't care less. I'm not signed up there and just click on DT articles linked on AnandTech every once in a while. OSnews is the only site I come to troll on. The comment system at DT is probably as flawed as the voting system on OSnews, but no tech-site does this right anyways.

Blame Apple for the advent of the tasteless hipster (hipsters in the past had taste, at least) and I'll get flamed by you, insult WP7/MS or the general uptightness of .NET devs and I'll get flamed by that maximus fellow, insult Android and call it a bloated Java-VM that took the freedom it promised the people and gave it to OEMs and Carriers instead (becoming the Windows of the smartphone world in the process), and everyone else here will flame me.

Doesn't change anything.

Reply Score: 2

RE[6]: monopoly abuse
by Tony Swash on Sat 14th Jan 2012 14:31 UTC in reply to "RE[5]: monopoly abuse"
Tony Swash Member since:
2009-08-22

Yes, I was rather crude there, excuse my behaviour.


That's OK. Generally it's always better to attack the ideas rather than the person but we all slip sometimes. I know I do. There is some thing about internet text based discourse (email, commenting etc) that seems to militate against civility.

Reply Score: 3

RE[6]: monopoly abuse
by Neolander on Sun 15th Jan 2012 08:40 UTC in reply to "RE[5]: monopoly abuse"
Neolander Member since:
2010-03-08

You are being unfair.

For such a large amount of quality trolling on any kind of company fanboy, I would give you a +1 (Insightful).

There is really no such good OS product on the market today that any OS-manufacturing company deserves its users' protection. Which is why maintaining computer hardware open to new OS actors is so important...

Reply Score: 1

RE[3]: monopoly abuse
by Soulbender on Sat 14th Jan 2012 03:51 UTC in reply to "RE[2]: monopoly abuse"
Soulbender Member since:
2005-08-18

Your love fest with Google knows no bounds.

Oh but it's but a drop in the ocean compared to your goatse bend-over for Apple.



Yes, nothing bolsters your case like linking to a random, ill-conceived and unsubstantiated rant on the internet.

Reply Score: 2

RE[4]: monopoly abuse
by BallmerKnowsBest on Sat 14th Jan 2012 15:50 UTC in reply to "RE[3]: monopoly abuse"
BallmerKnowsBest Member since:
2008-06-02

"Your love fest with Google knows no bounds.

Oh but it's but a drop in the ocean compared to your goatse bend-over for Apple.
"

Careful now, he might accuse you of "Apple phobia" for mocking his "lifestyle choice".

http://www.osnews.com/thread?500815

Reply Score: 1

RE[3]: monopoly abuse
by BallmerKnowsBest on Sat 14th Jan 2012 15:42 UTC in reply to "RE[2]: monopoly abuse"
BallmerKnowsBest Member since:
2008-06-02

If you really believe in an open web then Google is not a route to it.


So you're saying that in order to have an open web, we need have to user data locked up in silos. In other words, your Google anti-fanboyism is so single-minded that you blindly assume "it must be good if it's bad for Google."

Reply Score: 1

RE[4]: monopoly abuse
by Tony Swash on Sat 14th Jan 2012 19:48 UTC in reply to "RE[3]: monopoly abuse"
Tony Swash Member since:
2009-08-22

"If you really believe in an open web then Google is not a route to it.


So you're saying that in order to have an open web, we need have to user data locked up in silos. In other words, your Google anti-fanboyism is so single-minded that you blindly assume "it must be good if it's bad for Google."
"


What I am interested in is what is the core dynamic of the different tech giants and what this means for the broader tech scene. Because Google gives so much stuff, often very nice stuff, away for free and talks about being 'open' a lot, it's easy to not see what Google really does as a business and therefore what drives it and what one can expect from it.

As I said Google collects user data to sell advertising. That's it, that's it's sole business. That's the sole way that Google makes money. Everything it does is about ensuring it can collect the maximum user data and sell the most advertising. Google is a rambling entity and so it does many different things simultaneously sometimes very efficiently sometimes less so but everything it does is done to ensure that all user data of everyone on the web is accessible by Google.

This means that Google sees any areas of the internet that are closed to itself as being a threat, they need to be pried open or routed around (usually by just launching a free version and thus destroying the revenue stream of the closed area). Those closed areas are only closed to Google, they are not closed to users who might find them very useful or attractive (for example Facebook).

Sometimes this means Google champions open standards sometimes this means Google champions the rights of carriers and supports moves to end net neutrality. Google does not have a set of principals, merely a core business dynamic that produces a core corporate culture. If it's closed to Google then make it open up.

This may or may not alarm or concern one. It depends on what one thinks is important. It does mean though that if a new area of internet activity and of innovation develops which generates user data then it will automatically attract Google's attention. If the user data from the new activity is open for collection by Google and if it does not offer an alternative non-Google source of advertising then it may not move against that new area of activity. If it is closed to Google then it will almost certainly move against the new activity. I think that that probably militates against innovation in the long run.

I for one find Google's drive to be the universal intermediary on the internet a bit disturbing, I would prefer there to be many intermediaries none of them overwhelming dominate or powerful. Other people may think that getting lots of free stuff is so cool it doesn't matter.

The main thing though is to not pretend that Google is anything other than what it is. The world's largest advertising company.

Reply Score: 4

RE[5]: monopoly abuse
by Tony Swash on Sat 14th Jan 2012 19:57 UTC in reply to "RE[4]: monopoly abuse"
Tony Swash Member since:
2009-08-22

I just posted my previous post and then I came across this article which seems to be a fairly cogent critique of what Google has done with Goole+ and Search. Worth a read I think.

http://searchengineland.com/to-understand-google-favoritism-think-y...

Reply Score: 3

RE[5]: monopoly abuse
by Thom_Holwerda on Sat 14th Jan 2012 20:43 UTC in reply to "RE[4]: monopoly abuse"
Thom_Holwerda Member since:
2005-06-29

The main thing though is to not pretend that Google is anything other than what it is. The world's largest advertising company.


None of what you wrote is wrong.

The problem is that you usually act as if you are the only one who has seen the light, and that you must now bring the light to the poor unwashed masses locked in the darkness that is Google's cave. The problem is - the cave is already electrically lit with LED lights, a few people brought a snooker table, installed a bar, an arcade, several 50" big screen TVs, and loads of computers to hold a LAN party, while sunlight is let in through beautiful skylights.

The gist: don't act as if you are the only one who is aware of Google's enormous potential for evil. We know. We are fully aware. Just because we don't reiterate it every post in bold doesn't mean we think Google is all that is good in the world.

The cold and harsh truth is, though, that if you look at the track records of the three biggest companies in technology, Google's is a shade of heavenly white with a few dubious stains on it, whereas Apple's and Microsoft's are pitch-black. Google's, Microsoft's, and Apple's potentials for evil are all huge - it's just that one of these three has - so far - done relatively little with its potential.

That is not to say they will remain that way forever - just that as it stands now, if you put a gun to my head and asked me to trust any of these three, past behaviour indicates Google is your best bet.

For now.

Reply Score: 4

RE[6]: monopoly abuse
by Tony Swash on Sun 15th Jan 2012 00:11 UTC in reply to "RE[5]: monopoly abuse"
Tony Swash Member since:
2009-08-22



The cold and harsh truth is, though, that if you look at the track records of the three biggest companies in technology, Google's is a shade of heavenly white with a few dubious stains on it, whereas Apple's and Microsoft's are pitch-black. Google's, Microsoft's, and Apple's potentials for evil are all huge - it's just that one of these three has - so far - done relatively little with its potential.

That is not to say they will remain that way forever - just that as it stands now, if you put a gun to my head and asked me to trust any of these three, past behaviour indicates Google is your best bet.

For now.


Genuine question: what do you think that Apple has done that is evil?

Reply Score: 1

RE[7]: monopoly abuse
by Neolander on Sun 15th Jan 2012 14:55 UTC in reply to "RE[6]: monopoly abuse"
Neolander Member since:
2010-03-08

Genuine question: what do you think that Apple has done that is evil?

Well, I guess the trick here is that careful argumentation must be given as to why something is good or evil. Anyway, here we go, in roughly historical order :

-Claiming overall ownership of the concepts of graphical user interface introduced at Xerox PARC, then attempting to refuse any other legal arrangement than pulling the competing product (Windows 2 IIRC) out of the market, in order to keep a lucrative monopoly on GUI interfaces.

-Introducing the "iPod connector". From an engineering point of view, it is a waste, as the already existing mini-USB standard was capable of everything that this connector was, in a smaller and easier to use form factor. From a customer point of view, it meant paying something like €30 for a freaking wire each time you lost it or broke that 30-pin socket. The only one benefiting from this were Apple, who could sell overpriced wires instead of leaving it to more competent manufacturers.

-Still in the iPod family, introducing the world's first example of nonstandard earphones with the iPod Shuffle 3G. Basically, if you lost or broke the bundled earphones, you also lost the remote control of your MP3 player, and thus were forced to buy new ones either from Apple or from one of their partners with the premium that one may imagine.

-Setting the trend of making the batteries of consumer products as difficult to buy and replace by the user as possible, in order to ensure that the company selling the device remains the only supplier of an accessory that would otherwise be readily sold elsewhere at a much more competitive price point.

-The iOS ecosystem is so full of legally-enforced monopolies that barely make sense that I don't know where to begin...

-...so let's talk about the hardware it runs on : Apple have apparently managed to patent design drafts that represent a slab-like device of rounded rectangular shape. Nice trick, I have to admit, they deserve the same kind of admiration as Al Capone or Madoff for that. But then making use of the legal leverage that this gives in an attempt to ban competing products from the market ? Come on...

I leave it to others to complete this list.

Reply Score: 3

RE[7]: monopoly abuse
by Thom_Holwerda on Sun 15th Jan 2012 23:06 UTC in reply to "RE[6]: monopoly abuse"
Thom_Holwerda Member since:
2005-06-29

They're patent trolls. Heck, they're software patent trolls. Considering software patents are by far the biggest threat to the technology industry I hold so dearly, it's pretty easy to see why I believe Apple and Microsoft are evil - especially since they do it beneath this thin veil of innovationjobsstealingmurica many people are taken in by.

I've only said this like a billion times, but alas.

Reply Score: 2

RE[5]: monopoly abuse
by Neolander on Sun 15th Jan 2012 08:47 UTC in reply to "RE[4]: monopoly abuse"
Neolander Member since:
2010-03-08

All companies work for maximizing their income. Therefore, most companies will not hesitate to do anything evil (by our standards) if it can give them either more money or more control that can be used to sip more money.

Once you are aware of this, the main question becomes "is what this company is doing beneficial to me or people I like" ? Myself, I appreciate the "closed silos" argument given above and which you conveniently ignore : I really don't want a Facebook account, so I would appreciate it if I could have read-only access to the website by other means.

Reply Score: 2

RE[5]: monopoly abuse
by BallmerKnowsBest on Mon 16th Jan 2012 16:09 UTC in reply to "RE[4]: monopoly abuse"
BallmerKnowsBest Member since:
2008-06-02

So basically your revised argument is the same as your previous one, but with a few more repetitions of the "OMG advertising company" handwaving. It's hard to tell exactly what your point is, because you dance it around it some much, but it appears to be this:

Actions can only have beneficial results if the motivations for them are 100% "pure"/altruistic. Which is like arguing that it would be bad if someone accidentally discovered a cure for cancer in process of trying to develop a penis enlargement pill.

Oh, and:

Because Google gives so much stuff, often very nice stuff, away for free and talks about being 'open' a lot, it's easy to not see what Google really does as a business and therefore what drives it and what one can expect from it.
[...]
The main thing though is to not pretend that Google is anything other than what it is. The world's largest advertising company.


In other words, you've made a self-serving assumption that people only support Google out of naïveté (also known as a "Strawman argument").

Reply Score: 2

RE: monopoly abuse
by WorknMan on Sat 14th Jan 2012 00:39 UTC in reply to "monopoly abuse"
WorknMan Member since:
2005-11-13

I personally think the fact that their obviously favoring their products in search is a much bigger deal.


Why? It's their search engine... they can do whatever the hell they want with it. Same with Microsoft.

Reply Score: 2

PR nightmare
by fran on Fri 13th Jan 2012 23:37 UTC
fran
Member since:
2010-08-06

Whenever I hear rich companies take unnecessary risks...
Like that building company that use that use B grade cement. Medicos that sells black market organs. Investment bankers that do insider trading.
I mean what are they thinking.

But before we blame Google as a whole it's also true that a company is made up of very many people who practically can't all be policed.

Only way I can see those employees doing this is..
Are some people at Google working on commission?
Do some individual there have some sort of sign up targets? Are there bonuses involved?
Or are the persons involved a bit morally challenged thinking something like. "we'll it's not like we take their credit card numbers or something, just a bit of business fishing " or something.

Either way it's not right. The incentive to do such things should be taken away.

Reply Score: 4

Comment by abstraction
by abstraction on Sat 14th Jan 2012 03:08 UTC
abstraction
Member since:
2008-11-27

Sounds like employees doing evil stuff on their own and not something Google planned. Considering the size of Google and the many countries they operate in, there is bound to be people like this and honestly its not that surprising. They get fired and Google has to apologize for hiring them, not a big deal.

Reply Score: 3

RE: Comment by abstraction
by lucas_maximus on Sun 15th Jan 2012 01:26 UTC in reply to "Comment by abstraction"
lucas_maximus Member since:
2009-08-18

The whole operation got moved to India ... someone further up the food chain must have known what was going on.

Reply Score: 2

jared_wilkes
Member since:
2011-04-25

I believe this is at least the 4th rogue employee (Canadian drug ads, Olympic ads, chrome pay-per-post ads, Kenyon database stealing) and/or the 50th awe-shucks "mistake" (wifi data collection, Buzz, etc.) mucking things up for the evil-slaying Google, and the excuses keep a-coming...

Reply Score: 1

Google is a corrupt company
by tomcat on Sat 14th Jan 2012 04:57 UTC
tomcat
Member since:
2006-01-06

Stop making excuses for them.

Reply Score: 3

RE: Google is a corrupt company
by Soulbender on Sat 14th Jan 2012 05:02 UTC in reply to "Google is a corrupt company"
Soulbender Member since:
2005-08-18

Oh the irony...

Reply Score: 1

The main question
by jollix on Sat 14th Jan 2012 08:19 UTC
jollix
Member since:
2010-10-27

For me the main question is: Who is behind Google?

Reply Score: 1

RE: The main question
by gan17 on Sat 14th Jan 2012 15:53 UTC in reply to "The main question"
gan17 Member since:
2008-06-03

Pinky and The Brain, obviously. Everyone knows that!!

Reply Score: 1

RE[2]: The main question
by Brunis on Sat 14th Jan 2012 23:08 UTC in reply to "RE: The main question"
Brunis Member since:
2005-11-01

Pinky and The Brain, obviously. Everyone knows that!!


pfft, no way.. Stewie is the mastermind!!

Reply Score: 1

Comment by bouhko
by bouhko on Sat 14th Jan 2012 14:39 UTC
bouhko
Member since:
2010-06-24

So it seems that Google f*cked up on this one by trying to get the business owner confused about their relationship with Mocality. So, clear -1 for Google.

Now, on the other side (the whole IP "forensic" analysis), Mocality basically claims that Google has no right to use their directory to get business owners phone number... Well, Mocality is running a publicly-accessible directory, so Google employee can just browse it as everybody else and get phone number from there. Sure, Mocality TOS try to prevent this, but this seems like abusive TOS to me. The damn thing is public and they even have a sitemap for search engines to index them better... It's kind of like when the newspapers don't want to be indexed by Google News but want to appear in Google Search.

Not trying to defend Google here, they clearly screwed up badly. But that doesn't mean Mocality is 100% right either.

Reply Score: 1

Comment by MOS6510
by MOS6510 on Sat 14th Jan 2012 20:32 UTC
MOS6510
Member since:
2011-05-12

Google is evil, like all companies, but this seems to be a team acting on its own, not directed by Google HQ. So it's a bit unfair to blame it on Google itself.

Reply Score: 2

It's old
by twitterfire on Sun 15th Jan 2012 00:56 UTC
twitterfire
Member since:
2008-09-11

It's old news, it was on slashdot few days ago.

I won't comment I already did on slashdot.

Reply Score: 1

Kenya
by MasterSplinter on Tue 17th Jan 2012 14:50 UTC
MasterSplinter
Member since:
2012-01-05

Where can you see lions?
Only in Kenya.

Reply Score: 1