Linked by Thom Holwerda on Mon 16th Jan 2012 13:10 UTC, submitted by fran
PDAs, Cellphones, Wireless For most of you, Samsung's Bada will be a bit of a mystery. As far as I know, it isn't sold in the United States, and Samsung isn't pushing it very hard in Europe either. Still, it has a 2% market share, and since my brother has a Bada phone, I can confirm it is a surprisingly good, fast, and easy to use smartphone operating system. Still, Samsung seems to have greater plans for it than just this 2%, since it has announced it will merge Bada with Tizen, the successor to MeeGo.
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Not sure if is worth it
by moondevil on Mon 16th Jan 2012 13:18 UTC
moondevil
Member since:
2005-07-08

In Germany there are quite a few people around with Samsung Bada mobiles, mainly the Wave family. They are quite easy to spot.

I doubt they would go anywhere. Bada is C++ based, not sure if they would get developers to migrate to the HTML5+JavaScript world of Tizen.

Supporting Dalvik only makes sense if they support the NDK as well, because most games have a big part written with the NDK.

Reply Score: 2

RE: Not sure if is worth it
by Thom_Holwerda on Mon 16th Jan 2012 13:23 UTC in reply to "Not sure if is worth it"
Thom_Holwerda Member since:
2005-06-29

Applications written for Bada - even old ones - will run on the Tizen+Bada hybrid as well.

Reply Score: 1

RE[2]: Not sure if is worth it
by kragil on Mon 16th Jan 2012 13:30 UTC in reply to "RE: Not sure if is worth it"
kragil Member since:
2006-01-04

Well, actually there are so few facts atm that you can't say that without a lot of uncertainty.

Tizen will run HTML5 apps. Rasterman (Carsten Haitzler) is also working on Tizen and so it might also run Enlightenment stuff natively.
Samsung might provide their phones with some Bada compatibility, but as always some apps are probably only tested on those Wave phones and will crash and burn on other phones. Other vendors are unlikely to touch Bada stuff unless it is FOSS or Samsung offers them some incentive to do so.

Tizen is also backed by the successor of Limo the http://www.tizenassociation.org/.

Reply Score: 3

RE[3]: Not sure if is worth it
by zima on Tue 17th Jan 2012 05:22 UTC in reply to "RE[2]: Not sure if is worth it"
zima Member since:
2005-07-06

Weren't there rumours of Carsten Haitzler contributing to the Bada project and/or how Bada in any case uses Enlightenment libraries? (could account for some of the supposed snappiness, I guess)
So, if anything, the Bada part would also bring those into Tizen (and it's not like existing Enlightenment stuff would fit terribly well most of the usages Tizen aims at)

Then there's... http://enlightenment.org/p.php?p=about/sponsors&l=en

Samsung Electronics are heavily involved contributing to, sponsoring work on, and using E17 and EFL in platforms and products.

Reply Score: 2

RE: Not sure if is worth it
by shmerl on Mon 16th Jan 2012 18:42 UTC in reply to "Not sure if is worth it"
shmerl Member since:
2010-06-08

С++ based is a plus.

Reply Score: 2

RE[2]: Not sure if is worth it
by thavith_osn on Mon 16th Jan 2012 22:03 UTC in reply to "RE: Not sure if is worth it"
thavith_osn Member since:
2005-07-11

its a plus plus

sorry, couldn't resist...

Reply Score: 6

RE[3]: Not sure if is worth it
by zima on Tue 17th Jan 2012 05:26 UTC in reply to "RE[2]: Not sure if is worth it"
zima Member since:
2005-07-06

Doubleplus? (now this starts to sound like we're getting into 1984 territory ...which is arguably understandable, when speaking about advanced mobile, their networks, and the things they might make possible one day)

Reply Score: 2

Not really meego
by Carewolf on Mon 16th Jan 2012 14:04 UTC
Carewolf
Member since:
2005-09-08

Tizen is not really the continuation of Meego. Intel has moved its focus from Meego to Tizen, making Tizen a sort of spiritual successor to Meego, but except for the involvement of Intel Tizen is not Meego 2 in any way.

Reply Score: 9

RE: Not really meego
by RichterKuato on Mon 16th Jan 2012 23:55 UTC in reply to "Not really meego"
RichterKuato Member since:
2010-05-14

Seriously, ever since that Intel announcement everyone's been treating it like it has anything to do with Meego. That's just thoughtless parroting on the part of the press and bloggers.

If they'd have done their research maybe they would've called it the successor to Bada from the start. Since it is mostly Samsung doing the work here.

Reply Score: 4

RE[2]: Not really meego
by shmerl on Tue 17th Jan 2012 17:05 UTC in reply to "RE: Not really meego"
shmerl Member since:
2010-06-08

Which is rather stupid. They never learn to reuse the existing work.

Reply Score: 2

Has been a long journey
by siki_miki on Mon 16th Jan 2012 14:08 UTC
siki_miki
Member since:
2006-01-17

Tizen = ((Maemo+Moblin)+LiMo)+Bada
Seriously, This now looks like a platform with some support in the industry (more or less as a backup plan if Android would face demise). Samsung currently sells most phones around the world, and Nokia might return if the WP7 adventure doesn't end as Microsoft acquisition.

Edited 2012-01-16 14:10 UTC

Reply Score: 2

RE: Has been a long journey
by Radio on Mon 16th Jan 2012 14:47 UTC in reply to "Has been a long journey"
Radio Member since:
2009-06-20

Seriously, This now looks like a platform with some support in the industry

Or the broom wagon.

About Bada: it gained shares by deceit. Carriers pushed it to unsuspecting customers. I know it, several people around me got a Wave that way. That also explains why Bada gained significant (well, a few %) share only in some places such as France.

The power of carriers is too often overlooked: they are the ones who made Bada and they are the ones breaking WP7. This is one of the points where Tomi Ahonen is 100% right, whatever annoying, self-serving or in bad faith he is otherwise.

But on the long term, Bada/Tizen has no future. Samsung isn't a software company, never has been, never will be.

Reply Score: 4

RE[2]: Has been a long journey
by dsmogor on Mon 16th Jan 2012 16:07 UTC in reply to "RE: Has been a long journey"
dsmogor Member since:
2005-09-01

I don't know about deceit. If people are feel fooled, and are not satisfied with the device they return it to the shop.
True, Bada phones were quite heavily advertised by the carries but they have occupied lower end smartphone spectrum from the start (with exception of flagship Wave (no numbers) device used to be introduce SAmoled screens).
Most mass market Bada phones are actually quite similar (buildwise) to their touch feature phone offerings.
I don't see much space for confusion here.

Edited 2012-01-16 16:08 UTC

Reply Score: 4

RE[2]: Has been a long journey
by zima on Tue 17th Jan 2012 06:12 UTC in reply to "RE: Has been a long journey"
zima Member since:
2005-07-06

Samsung is also known for very popular in many places (AFAIK France being among them) touchscreen phones in the style of Samsung Star and Corby (think also LG Cookie).

Bada is not too far from them ( http://www.mobile-review.com/review/samsung-corby2-s3850-en.shtml for example, and search "bada" in that text), it can be seen as smooth continuation of one fairly popular for some time now Samsung product family (and it's most likely envisioned to run on such inexpensive touchscreens, I'm surprised Samsung doesn't push for this faster) - so I don't think there's too much space for confusion (not additional one at least; just what it always is)

But on the long term, Bada/Tizen has no future. Samsung isn't a software company, never has been, never will be.

I don't know, the platform of probably soon-to-be-biggest mobile phone maker should at least have some momentum (just like even Nokia S30 chums along).
And hey - Nintendo, Sega, or Sony weren't software companies either, and Microsoft wasn't a hardware one. Doesn't preclude great/fun things, from time to time at least (come on, what is the core competency of CERN? And look what we're doing here, on a www site ;p )

Reply Score: 2

RE[3]: Has been a long journey
by Radio on Tue 17th Jan 2012 19:26 UTC in reply to "RE[2]: Has been a long journey"
Radio Member since:
2009-06-20

And hey - Nintendo, Sega, or Sony weren't software companies either
They are. They have decades of experience in writing their own OS, on very specific custom hardware, and working hand-in-hand with pure software developpers (game makers). I mean, who else but Sony (-Ericsson) made a tutorial to explain how to compile your own linux kernel to flash on your smartphone?
http://developer.sonyericsson.com/wp/2011/05/06/how-to-build-a-linu...

and Microsoft wasn't a hardware one.
And they shelved the Courier, bullied their OEM and maimed every single one of their mobile partners (Nokia will follow soon; you can quote me on that). They really aren't a hardware company, don't understand hardware

(come on, what is the core competency of CERN? And look what we're doing here, on a www site ;p )
…That's not the same as playing runner-up in a very competitive private market already esthablished. You may be right there is a counter-example somewhere, but CERN isn't one.

Reply Score: 2

RE[4]: Has been a long journey
by zima on Mon 23rd Jan 2012 23:32 UTC in reply to "RE[3]: Has been a long journey"
zima Member since:
2005-07-06

Samsung also must have many years of such experience, building embedded OS for many of their various products, on very specific custom hardware...

But, really, the point was how 2 of the mentioned companies are seriously involved with software (in context mostly of the gaming kind) for a small minority of their total time in existence (heck, one goes back to XIX century!) - while third for only ~half. Clearly exemplifying how activities of companies, of groups of people, are not set in stone.

More generally, to put such "limits" on one as ridiculously vast and diverse as Samsung is a bit absurd... it's hard to find entities which demonstrate better their capability to tackle new things. Your "Samsung isn't a software company, never has been, never will be" might be paraphrased a bit:

Samsung is a groceries retailer & noodle maker - it isn't, never has been, never will be a fabrics / clothing / construction / pharmaceutical company, housing developer, shipbuilder, robots / weaponry / aeronautics / aircraft engines / plastics / cars / industrial vehicles & facilities / electronics / phones manufacturer, will never construct the highest building on Earth (or participate big time in previous two title-holders).
Oh, wait, they do ALL of those things! (and I probably missed some - actually, it seems like some division of Samsung makes it also the largest Korean IT company, with a standard package of services, also software)

Also, you pointing out how Nintendo, Sega, or Sony are "working hand-in-hand with" other "pure software developpers (game makers)" doesn't exactly help your case...
Likewise: pointing out how SE provides instructions for building "alien" software package, now exclusively powering their new handsets, on which they have some issues and SE-exclusive skin seems to be partly behind them - while Samsung & their Touchwiz appear to roll along much smoother (as does Bada in general - while... at best, SE A100 & A200 platforms were simply stagnant for half a decade)

[Microsoft] shelved the Courier, bullied their OEM and maimed every single one of their mobile partners [...] They really aren't a hardware company, don't understand hardware

Everybody shelves developments. And partners are outside of the scope whether or not the company in question is a hardware one.
But most importantly - apparently you simply forgot about Xbox, the console with probably the biggest long-term momentum, OK...

(and CERN was mentioned with ";p" ...still, a rather nice "ultimate" example how even core competency of very focused groups - supposedly lacking in many other & "real world" areas - isn't a clear indicator of what might come out of them)

Reply Score: 2

RE: Has been a long journey
by fretinator on Mon 16th Jan 2012 19:38 UTC in reply to "Has been a long journey"
fretinator Member since:
2005-07-06

Tizen = ((Maemo+Moblin)+LiMo)+Bada


Tizen = ((0.02 + 0.01) + 0.005) + 2.0)

Tizen = 2.035.

Just thought I would help with the math.

Reply Score: 5

RE[2]: Has been a long journey
by bitwelder on Tue 17th Jan 2012 08:50 UTC in reply to "RE: Has been a long journey"
bitwelder Member since:
2010-04-27

Tizen = 2.035.

So round(Tizen) = round(2.035) = 2

Let's spare us carrying the decimals and just call Tizen as Bada.

Reply Score: 3

RE: Has been a long journey
by zima on Tue 17th Jan 2012 06:23 UTC in reply to "Has been a long journey"
zima Member since:
2005-07-06

Samsung currently sells most phones around the world

Did that already happen, worldwide? (anyway, should this year)

Reply Score: 2

take my money
by bob_bipbip on Mon 16th Jan 2012 15:37 UTC
bob_bipbip
Member since:
2009-04-28

seriously, count me in!
the first tizen aka i9500 will sit next to my Nokia n9 and palm pre3 (sorry, Nokia took away my n900, USB hell, like every n900)

Edited 2012-01-16 15:39 UTC

Reply Score: 1

Comment by dnebdal
by dnebdal on Mon 16th Jan 2012 18:06 UTC
dnebdal
Member since:
2008-08-27

And for those wondering about the Dutch: "Een stok achter de deur" seems to be "a (big) stick behind the door" - the kind you'd carry while speaking softly, I presume.

("En stokk bak døra", in literal Norwegian; the idiomatic translation would be "riset bak speilet".)

Edited 2012-01-16 18:07 UTC

Reply Score: 3

RE: Comment by dnebdal
by Fergy on Mon 16th Jan 2012 23:36 UTC in reply to "Comment by dnebdal"
Fergy Member since:
2006-04-10

And for those wondering about the Dutch: "Een stok achter de deur" seems to be "a (big) stick behind the door" - the kind you'd carry while speaking softly, I presume.

("En stokk bak døra", in literal Norwegian; the idiomatic translation would be "riset bak speilet".)

Your comment only confuses. "Een stok achter de deur" means a backup plan.

Reply Score: 2

RE[2]: Comment by dnebdal
by drahca on Tue 17th Jan 2012 02:20 UTC in reply to "RE: Comment by dnebdal"
drahca Member since:
2006-02-23

"And for those wondering about the Dutch: "Een stok achter de deur" seems to be "a (big) stick behind the door" - the kind you'd carry while speaking softly, I presume.

("En stokk bak døra", in literal Norwegian; the idiomatic translation would be "riset bak speilet".)

Your comment only confuses. "Een stok achter de deur" means a backup plan.
"

The parent was referring to the English proverb "Speak softly and carry a big stick" which (from http://www.phrases.org.uk/meanings/speak-softly-and-carry-a-big-sti... ) advises the tactic of caution and non-aggression, backed up by the ability to do violence if required. It means exactly the same as the "stok achter de deur".

I have no clue about the origin of the saying but presumably the stick behind the door is there to be used when there is someone unfriendly at the door who just doesn't want to leave when asked nicely.

In the case of the article, it is about Samsung having an alternative operating system in Bada to Android so that when Google decides to take Android in a direction not to Samsung's liking, it can threaten to switch to Bada to motivate Google to listen to its complaints.

Thom, for us Dutchies it is kinda fun to read a Dutch saying from time to time but I think it is confusing some of your readers as the two posts above make clear.

Reply Score: 3

RE[3]: Comment by dnebdal
by Fergy on Tue 17th Jan 2012 08:23 UTC in reply to "RE[2]: Comment by dnebdal"
Fergy Member since:
2006-04-10

In the case of the article, it is about Samsung having an alternative operating system in Bada to Android so that when Google decides to take Android in a direction not to Samsung's liking, it can threaten to switch to Bada to motivate Google to listen to its complaints.

So a backup plan.
Thom, for us Dutchies it is kinda fun to read a Dutch saying from time to time but I think it is confusing some of your readers as the two posts above make clear.

I am dutch and again your previous post and this post only confuse the subject. It could be just me though...

Reply Score: 2

RE[4]: Comment by dnebdal
by dnebdal on Tue 17th Jan 2012 12:39 UTC in reply to "RE[3]: Comment by dnebdal"
dnebdal Member since:
2008-08-27

You're replying to two different people, btw - I'm the one you originally responded to.

Anyway. Half the fun of idioms, sayings and expressions in other languages is guessing the meaning given the literal translation, IMO. The only thing I regret is making the hint in the explanation so obvious, it sort of takes the game out of it. ;)

Reply Score: 1

RE[5]: Comment by dnebdal
by Thom_Holwerda on Tue 17th Jan 2012 19:06 UTC in reply to "RE[4]: Comment by dnebdal"
Thom_Holwerda Member since:
2005-06-29

You're replying to two different people, btw - I'm the one you originally responded to.

Anyway. Half the fun of idioms, sayings and expressions in other languages is guessing the meaning given the literal translation, IMO. The only thing I regret is making the hint in the explanation so obvious, it sort of takes the game out of it. ;)


Well, I just think it adds some variety into the mix every now and then ;) .

Reply Score: 1

RE: Comment by dnebdal
by hansa on Tue 17th Jan 2012 09:32 UTC in reply to "Comment by dnebdal"
hansa Member since:
2010-04-08

Let's keep it simple: In case of emergency for bad times ;-)

Reply Score: 1

Comment by shmerl
by shmerl on Mon 16th Jan 2012 18:44 UTC
shmerl
Member since:
2010-06-08

In general it's good, because there will be devices out there where normal Linux could be used (not Android), i.e. with X11 and may be Wayland drivers in the future.

Reply Score: 3

RE: Comment by shmerl
by zima on Tue 17th Jan 2012 05:29 UTC in reply to "Comment by shmerl"
zima Member since:
2005-07-06

That might depend on how central part of the effort Bada will become ...I believe it doesn't rely on X in any way, doubt that will change.

Reply Score: 2

RE[2]: Comment by shmerl
by shmerl on Tue 17th Jan 2012 16:06 UTC in reply to "RE: Comment by shmerl"
shmerl Member since:
2010-06-08

Tizen uses Xorg, that's for sure:

http://source.tizen.org/git/

So if Bada is going to merge in, Xorg would stay. I just wonder why it's not Wayland yet.

Edited 2012-01-17 16:08 UTC

Reply Score: 2

RE[3]: Comment by shmerl
by zima on Sun 22nd Jan 2012 00:44 UTC in reply to "RE[2]: Comment by shmerl"
zima Member since:
2005-07-06

Well, ultimately, what Tizen uses is the browser... ;p so Bada (& rough equivalent of X/Wayland in Bada) could wrap it, I suppose (yeah, it seems Enlightenment libs are also/already there; but then, supposedly Bada builds on them, too)

What I'm mostly saying: better don't keep your hopes too high (say: don't preclude Samsung essentially dropping the whole thing - at least as far as "community" and its desires go - in a year or so; or this new effort not going far, like its previous incarnations in which Samsung was IIRC also involved)

Edited 2012-01-22 01:03 UTC

Reply Score: 2

Comment by kurkosdr
by kurkosdr on Thu 19th Jan 2012 15:32 UTC
kurkosdr
Member since:
2011-04-11

What will the source model of the new OS be? Open, mixed mode or closed? I expect it to be closed (mixed mode in best case scenario). Nokia's MeeGo troubles showed that if you commit firmly to an open source OS, then all the other members of the project that are less reliant on it get lazy and don't contribute squat, expecting from you to do all the work. And if the OS is a success, then those other OEMs can use it for free, while your company would have paid millions to develop it. In plain english, everyone expects from the others to do most of the work. Were was Samsung when MeeGo needed help? (they were part of the MeeGo alliance) Oh yeah, they didn't contribute much, because they knew Nokia had bet the farm on MeeGo (aka Nokia's commitment was much stronger), so they just left Nokia to do all the work.

Open source seems to be the way if you are a service provider (Google), but if you are a hardware vendor, closed seems to be the way (so that other hardware vendors won't use for free the OS you paid to develop). Of course, the question that remains is if an OS made by a hardware vendor (Samsung) can compete with an OS from a service provider like Google that has better knowledge in making software.

Edited 2012-01-19 15:39 UTC

Reply Score: 1