Linked by Thom Holwerda on Fri 20th Jan 2012 23:40 UTC, submitted by DrillSgt
Internet & Networking Supposedly we've won today. Both the PROTECT-IP Act in the Senate and the Stop Online Piracy Act in the House of Representatives have been shelved by their respective sponsors. However, these acts have been shelved before, and the bags of money sent to DC didn't suddenly devalue, so I'm sure the next SOPA is being written as we speak. What did make me happy, though, was Neelie Kroes: the EU commissioner for the digital agenda has unambiguously distanced herself from SOPA, which she calls "bad legislation". Obama, the next time you want to make a statement with teeth, just wait for Kroes to do it for you.
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Not done yet
by mdoverkil on Sat 21st Jan 2012 01:23 UTC
mdoverkil
Member since:
2005-09-30

As Thom mentioned this is FAR from over. They'll just attach the SOPA/PIPA provisions to a bill that would be political suicide to not vote in favor of. Probably like a child protection bill or something along those lines.

This way the sponsors can say "You don't support protecting children? what are you a monster?" And then all the politicians except for a few will fall in lock-step

Reply Score: 7

H.R. 1981 is Next!
by bornagainenguin on Sat 21st Jan 2012 05:51 UTC in reply to "Not done yet"
bornagainenguin Member since:
2005-08-07

mdoverkil speculated correctly....

As Thom mentioned this is FAR from over. They'll just attach the SOPA/PIPA provisions to a bill that would be political suicide to not vote in favor of. Probably like a child protection bill or something along those lines.

This way the sponsors can say "You don't support protecting children? what are you a monster?" And then all the politicians except for a few will fall in lock-step


How did you know? It's called H.R. 1981, the Protecting Children From Internet Pornographers Act of 2011...somehow I just can't imagine any of our politicians voting against it for the very reasons you gave. The attack ads practically write themselves.

Oh look, its sponsored by our pal Rep Lamar Smith...imagine that...

--bornagainpenguin

Reply Score: 5

RE: Not done yet
by Doc Pain on Sat 21st Jan 2012 12:09 UTC in reply to "Not done yet"
Doc Pain Member since:
2006-10-08

This way the sponsors can say "You don't support protecting children? what are you a monster?" And then all the politicians except for a few will fall in lock-step


If they don't play the "children card", they have many others in the deck that work (and I'm sure they'll try them first because the "children card" is so 100 percent successful that it's often considered for the last chance). How about those:

"Don't you want to live in freedom anymore? If you want the Internet to be free, our officials must have the power and the right to force freedom wherever we feel it's required."

"Do you want the evil communism of the Internet to invade our courtry? Don't you realize that *insert pro-SOPA/PIPA company names here* protect the Internet from villains?"

"Do you really want to abandon democracy? The Internet can ony be democratic when it obeys US law everywhere!"

In Thom's article there is a paragraph that sounds quite familiar, when put in relation to Germany's past. Then the national-socialist movement became "polular" in the 1930's, similar words have been used. I'll try to illustrate what I'm thinking of, using a very impolite example, I know.

Senator Patrick Leahy: "In the meantime, more time will pass with jobs lost and economies hurt by foreign criminals who are stealing American intellectual property, and selling it back to American consumers,"

Random NS propaganda representative: "While Germany is paying for reparations, our economy is suffering. It's the jews that are responsible. Our problems all come from foreign countries. They are draining our resources and are therefore hurting the German citizens."

I'm sure you can see the parallels. The next sentence can also match this argumentation scheme: Blaming someone else for the own faults while emphasizing the own matters being fully innocent.

Now keep in mind that it was very hard for me to write that harsh claim!

I'm really sad to see that a U. S. Senator, a person you should assume knows about history (also about foreign history!) is able to make such a statement. Okay, maybe some PR consulting company has written those lines for him, developed by young dynamic group-oriented elastic-legged program managers. :-)

Reply Score: 5

RE[2]: Not done yet
by Neolander on Sat 21st Jan 2012 13:11 UTC in reply to "RE: Not done yet"
Neolander Member since:
2010-03-08

I have to say, this is the most elegant way of Godwin-ing a comment thread which I have ever seen so far ;)

(And it bears some truth, too, but shhh...)

Reply Score: 2

RE[3]: Not done yet
by righard on Sat 21st Jan 2012 20:20 UTC in reply to "RE[2]: Not done yet"
righard Member since:
2007-12-26

I don't think that 'Godwin-ing' is always a such a bad thing. National Socialism is on of the worst things that happened in the recent past. Our society is bound to make this mistake again if where not vigilant. Thus finding parallels in action that led to it to recent action should not always ridiculed with 'GODWIN-ED' replies.
How can we learn from the past if we are not able to mention it?

Reply Score: 3

RE[4]: Not done yet
by Neolander on Sun 22nd Jan 2012 10:44 UTC in reply to "RE[3]: Not done yet"
Neolander Member since:
2010-03-08

The problem with references to Nazi Germany is that they have been overused as authority arguments. Because of this, they tend to put discussions on an emotional level, polarize them, and destroy deep thinking. A bit like the Evil Empire of Soviet Russia or Them Evil Middle-Eastern Terrorists in the US culture, if you see what I mean.

It seems that half a century after, the wounds of WWII are still too fresh. Japanese works of fiction still tend to carefully avoid featuring atomic bombs, declarations that modern political campaigns have been invented at the NSDAP are still perceived as trolls, and if you go to Germany or Israel it is still a good idea to avoid mentioning that Nazis were elected in the name of hope during an economic crisis, under any circumstance.

Hence the introduction of the admittedly silly "Godwin's law", as a warning considering the use of notoriously evil persons or groups of persons as authority arguments during intellectual discussions. There could as well be a similar "law" concerning the mention of Stalin during discussions about Communism, as an example. It's just making a point about the dangers of authority arguments ;)

Edited 2012-01-22 10:57 UTC

Reply Score: 3

RE[5]: Not done yet
by B. Janssen on Sun 22nd Jan 2012 13:53 UTC in reply to "RE[4]: Not done yet"
B. Janssen Member since:
2006-10-11

It seems that half a century after, the wounds of WWII are still too fresh. Japanese works of fiction still tend to carefully avoid featuring atomic bombs, declarations that modern political campaigns have been invented at the NSDAP are still perceived as trolls, and if you go to Germany or Israel it is still a good idea to avoid mentioning that Nazis were elected in the name of hope during an economic crisis, under any circumstance.


I can't talk about Israel, but what makes you think the bolded part is an accurate depiction of German public discourse? It certainly does not reflect my experience.

Reply Score: 4

RE[6]: Not done yet
by Neolander on Mon 23rd Jan 2012 08:24 UTC in reply to "RE[5]: Not done yet"
Neolander Member since:
2010-03-08

That Germans have gone as far as removing words from their vocabulary and forbidding National-Socialist parties to be present at elections in their quest to forget ?

I agree that I should have put a "I think" or a "probably" around this one though.

Edited 2012-01-23 08:29 UTC

Reply Score: 2

RE[7]: Not done yet
by B. Janssen on Tue 24th Jan 2012 11:22 UTC in reply to "RE[6]: Not done yet"
B. Janssen Member since:
2006-10-11

Thanks for your answer. However, I can't fail to note that your answer does not correspond to the statement in your previous post.

That German law allows parties to be banned for violating the constitution is a cornerstone of the "fighting democracy" that was established as a result of the lessons learned from a mostly defenceless Weimar Republic. If anything it is the open admission that the NSDAP was voted into power.

I only know of forbidden symbols but I'm not aware of any forbidden terms. There are a number of terms that are frowned upon in public discourse, that's right and there is the criminal case of "Volksverhetzung" which targets ideas or concepts, not specific wording. However, I can't see how this can be considered "hush-hushing" the subject. It seems to me careless use of frowned-upon terms has ended more than one politicians career because of the public outcry. So apparently the people are aware.

Reply Score: 2

RE[7]: Not done yet
by zima on Fri 27th Jan 2012 23:53 UTC in reply to "RE[6]: Not done yet"
zima Member since:
2005-07-06

I don't see it as a quest to forget (and I look from a country which was among the most impacted by WW2 - that's gotta count for something, with such perceptions?*) - the other way of looking at it: it's hard to find a place which is more conscious about those issues; about what led to them doing WW2.
It might seem also like "we're doing those measures..." (some you mention) "...& so we constantly remind ourselves why we're doing them" - a way by which the issue is near the forefront, makes people remember.

Maybe even self-tormenting themselves, a bit - you can sort of see it in their cinema, for example.

(it is different, worse in some parts of ex-DDR... but that's a separate issue; for one, the regime there simply decided to pretend like the whole thing was in the past, didn't really address it)

In contrast, few other countries I'm familiar with largely go: "nah, can't happen here, that's a German problem" - witness neo-Nazis in Russia for example... but people even often have a cognitive block from calling such Nazis or fascists (yes, not strictly the same thing, but it is the same in popular perceptions) - "what fascists? That's a German thing!" ("funnily" enough, communism is somewhat more of DE origin, but alas...)


*Well, though I'm not very representative: notably in context, I'm a bit of a mix of nationalities which... were most involved in the mess of WW2, in the area - but maybe that makes me more "neutral"? ;p (and yeah, brings forward the question "so how did your ancestors manage to hook up, instead of killing each other or smth, in that first half of XX century?")

Edited 2012-01-28 00:12 UTC

Reply Score: 2

RE[4]: Not done yet
by zima on Fri 27th Jan 2012 23:59 UTC in reply to "RE[3]: Not done yet"
zima Member since:
2005-07-06

National Socialism is on of the worst things that happened in the recent past. Our society is bound to make this mistake again if where not vigilant.

Also, we might abstain from the use of a label which is fairly well documented as specifically chosen, by the Nazis ...pretty much for the purpose of deceit.
(so, really, by using it we continue getting played by them, just as they intended)

Especially when we're talking about a place (of SOPA, PIPA) where the S-word is ...complicated; and thrown around in ridiculous ways.

Edited 2012-01-28 00:05 UTC

Reply Score: 2

RE[2]: Not done yet
by Soulbender on Sun 22nd Jan 2012 08:49 UTC in reply to "RE: Not done yet"
Soulbender Member since:
2005-08-18

"Do you want the evil communism of the Internet to invade our courtry?"


Personally I love this one. In most other countries communism and communists are part of the political landscape, having various degrees of influence. Heck, even many well-respected people are communists. In the U.S it is like some kind of foreign virus or something that you have heard about but never really experienced but good golly, we must keep it away.

I'll try to illustrate what I'm thinking of, using a very impolite example, I know.


I thought it most very illustrating. Might also want to read Sinclair Lewis' "it can't happen here" which is still chillingly current.

I'm really sad to see that a U. S. Senator, a person you should assume knows about history (also about foreign history!) is able to make such a statement.


Personally I would never expect a U.S senator to know about history, especially foreign history. For some reason this all makes me think of 'General' Midwinter in "Billion Dollar Brain".
http://bit.ly/x2EwcO

Edited 2012-01-22 08:52 UTC

Reply Score: 5

RE[3]: Not done yet
by Doc Pain on Sun 22nd Jan 2012 12:03 UTC in reply to "RE[2]: Not done yet"
Doc Pain Member since:
2006-10-08

""Do you want the evil communism of the Internet to invade our courtry?"


Personally I love this one. In most other countries communism and communists are part of the political landscape, having various degrees of influence. Heck, even many well-respected people are communists. In the U.S it is like some kind of foreign virus or something that you have heard about but never really experienced but good golly, we must keep it away.
"

The pure word "communism" seems to have the flavour of a kind of scarecrow to address little children when they don't eat their vegetables. Similarly, the absence of knowledge about what communism basically is (the idea) and what has been done in the world using this name (the reality - foreign countries of course) seems to benefit this concept. It's always useful when you have something at hand that you can "impress" people with, primarily because they have no real idea of what it is. THis makes the "impressor" look like a very educated and non-questionalbe authority, and obeying authorities is mandatory for a democracy, because they are freely elected. Here the circle closes. :-)

I just wonder why this word hasn't been presented yet in the official pro-SOPA/PIPA argumentation, but maybe in our globalized world it doesn't matter anymore, as it is already old-fashioned. Things like employment, market share, freedom and property can serve the same purpose (as words embedded in argumentation). "Properly" used, a justification for anything imaginable can be constructed.

I thought it most very illustrating. Might also want to read Sinclair Lewis' "it can't happen here" which is still chillingly current.


In this regards, allow me to add the following:
- George Orwell: "1984"
- Morton Rhue: "The Wave"
- Victor Klemperer: "LTI"

Especially "LTI" perfectly combines with the description of how language can be used to re-interpret concepts and ideas, to "dissolve" groups of the society and mark them as "evil". And how the modification of the language will lead to a change of thinking is something we already know from "1984".

It simply fits too good here to politely stay out of analogies.

Reply Score: 4

RE[4]: Not done yet
by shmerl on Sun 22nd Jan 2012 18:14 UTC in reply to "RE[3]: Not done yet"
shmerl Member since:
2010-06-08

Most just consider bolsheviks to be communists, but that's far from truth.

Reply Score: 2

RE[5]: Not done yet
by Doc Pain on Sun 22nd Jan 2012 18:30 UTC in reply to "RE[4]: Not done yet"
Doc Pain Member since:
2006-10-08

Most just consider bolsheviks to be communists, but that's far from truth.


But it's not only that easy thing, messing with terminology.

There are other "top arguments" when claiming that something is "bare of any alternatives", and a primary justification is the fight against child pornography. Put this term in combination with anything, and you can easily defend any strategy, e. g. "The Internet must be free of file sharing, as this is used to sell child pornography." Or easier, "The software distributed in this place can be used to produce child pornography."

It is very easy to use this kind of argumentation, as nobody will even try to talk against fighting child porn. Anyone who tries to talk against the subject "connected to" child porn will be treated as someone who does the first thing, and will therefore be dismissed in discussion and purged from society.

Allow me to give an example:

http://torrentfreak.com/the-copyright-lobby-absolutely-loves-child-...

"We must filter the Internet to win over online file sharing. But politicians don't understand that file sharing is bad, and this is a problem for us. Therefore, we must associate file sharing with child pornography. Because that's something the politicians understand, and something they want to filter off the Internet."

The basic intention to fight child porn is fully abused to do something different here. Concepts like PIPA and SOPA will utilize it because it's working, even though those acts are morally flawed, possibly legally flawed and of course technically flawed. But who cares when their "secret intentions" (haha) can be brought to life using a positively recepted goal? Finally, the actions taken won't be seen in this relation anymore (if they are ever noticed by the masses, and if the masses are interested in learning more).

Here the circle closes: When you are able to control language and produce a positive connotation for something that people would consider bad if they had a clue what it's about, then you can easily achieve any goal with the full affirmation and help of both the society, the legal system, and the corporate entities. Once you have hooked into that argumentation pattern, you can control many aspects of a society for "the benefit of all".

NS propaganda didn't work much different.

Read between the lines.

And use your brain.

Reply Score: 4

New world orded
by antik on Sat 21st Jan 2012 01:46 UTC
antik
Member since:
2006-05-19

1. Blow up your own citizens and blame terrorists.
2. Force PATRIOT act.
3. ???
4. PROFIT!!

1. Vote for SOPA and make your own citizens terrorist.
2. Shut down Internet.
3. ???
4. PROFIT!!!

1. Force embargo to countries who does not kiss ass to U.S.A
2. Declare them terrorists and begin another futile war.
3. ???
4. PROFIT!!!!

Next time you'll have rfid under your skin...and life like in North Korea...

WHO THE f--k WINS?

Edited 2012-01-21 01:49 UTC

Reply Score: 10

Curious
by earksiinni on Sat 21st Jan 2012 01:46 UTC
earksiinni
Member since:
2009-03-27

Which lobbyist did Congress listen to today? The Internet, or Daddy Googlebucks?

Reply Score: 1

RE: Curious
by umccullough on Sat 21st Jan 2012 02:19 UTC in reply to "Curious"
umccullough Member since:
2006-01-26

Which lobbyist did Congress listen to today? The Internet, or Daddy Googlebucks?


Aha, one of those shills who is trying to convince everyone that Google is responsible for killing SOPA/PIPA eh?

I don't know about others, but I contacted several congressman directly (not by petition/proxy) to tell them what I thought of these two bills - without Google's involvement whatsoever.

Reply Score: 4

RE[2]: Curious
by earksiinni on Sat 21st Jan 2012 03:35 UTC in reply to "RE: Curious"
earksiinni Member since:
2009-03-27

Aha, one of those shills who is trying to convince everyone that Google is responsible for killing SOPA/PIPA eh?


I ain't no shill, son. I'm asking whether Congress found the millions of people rallying on the internet more convincing than the tech industry lobby. It is a legitimate question. I don't see how you got to "OMFG HE IS A SHILL" from that.

Wasn't meant to be slanted in either direction--I am genuinely curious. If it's the internet, then that would be huge.

I don't know about others, but I contacted several congressman directly (not by petition/proxy) to tell them what I thought of these two bills - without Google's involvement whatsoever.


Me too--called both of my senators! In addition to submitting an e-mail by proxy.

Edited 2012-01-21 03:39 UTC

Reply Score: 3

RE[3]: Curious
by umccullough on Sat 21st Jan 2012 05:39 UTC in reply to "RE[2]: Curious"
umccullough Member since:
2006-01-26

I don't see how you got to "OMFG HE IS A SHILL" from that.


Sorry, guess I'm just used to that mentality on techdirt - every time a SOPA/PIPA article gets posted, there's a half dozen shills immediately blaming Google and claiming that they're spreading lies to cause people to sign petitions, etc.

Edit - for example, like this one:

Dodd is actually being quite diplomatic. He's discussing how his side was positioned because it's obvious Google and its astroturfers formulated a plan and carried it out.

And make no mistake, he's aware that their plan was simple: lie to everyone and tell them the internet was going to be shut down and then simply wait for people to panic.

You are one of the most slimy, evil liars I have ever seen in my life, Masnick. You and your ilk are clearly dangerous to every law abiding businessperson, and we are going to make that well known to Senators and Congressmen, as they don't like being suckered and lied to either.


So you can see - one becomes sensitive ;)

Edited 2012-01-21 05:46 UTC

Reply Score: 3

RE[4]: Curious
by Valhalla on Sat 21st Jan 2012 15:18 UTC in reply to "RE[3]: Curious"
Valhalla Member since:
2006-01-24

Here's Chris Dodd threatening to cut campaign funding from MPAA for those politicians who vote against their bill:

http://www.techdirt.com/articles/20120120/14472117492/mpaa-directly...

Has it ever been clearer that lobbyism and campaign support is nothing but bribery in disguise and a poor one at that?

Reply Score: 5

RE[4]: Curious
by Soulbender on Sun 22nd Jan 2012 06:25 UTC in reply to "RE[3]: Curious"
Soulbender Member since:
2005-08-18

For the sake of the human race I hope you made that up....

Reply Score: 2

RE[5]: Curious
by umccullough on Mon 23rd Jan 2012 03:29 UTC in reply to "RE[4]: Curious"
umccullough Member since:
2006-01-26

For the sake of the human race I hope you made that up....


Nope - that's a real comment that was posted recently on a SOPA story at techdirt. It did end up being "hidden" due to so many people reporting it as a troll, but you could still expand and read it.

Reply Score: 3

Lamar Smith gives SOPA one more try
by djohnston on Sat 21st Jan 2012 06:45 UTC
djohnston
Member since:
2006-04-11

http://www.webpronews.com/sopa-is-back-resume-february-2012-01

(quoted from above link)


If you needed any more proof that SOPA isn’t really dead, just delayed, look no further.

Despite calls that SOPA, for all intents and purposes, had been killed in the House of Representatives, the truth was that the harmful legislation had simply been put on the backburner.

Just ask Lamar Smith, SOPA author:

Stop Online Piracy Act Markup to Resume in February

House Judiciary Committee Chairman Lamar Smith (R-Texas) today said that he expects the Committee to continue its markup of the Stop Online Piracy Act in February.

Chairman Smith: “To enact legislation that protects consumers, businesses and jobs from foreign thieves who steal America’s intellectual property, we will continue to bring together industry representatives and Members to find ways to combat online piracy.

“Due to the Republican and Democratic retreats taking place over the next two weeks, markup of the Stop Online Piracy Act is expected to resume in February.

“I am committed to continuing to work with my colleagues in the House and Senate to send a bipartisan bill to the White House that saves American jobs and protects intellectual property.”

Reply Score: 2

Comment by NuxRo
by NuxRo on Sat 21st Jan 2012 10:51 UTC
NuxRo
Member since:
2010-09-25

This is fuckin disgusting.

Reply Score: 3

Alternative
by qbast on Sat 21st Jan 2012 12:17 UTC
qbast
Member since:
2010-02-08

Or just work on getting root DNS servers out of US jurisdiction. After that Americans are welcome to their nerfed "Internet". You voted those people in, suck it up.

Reply Score: 4

RE: Alternative
by djohnston on Sat 21st Jan 2012 22:14 UTC in reply to "Alternative"
djohnston Member since:
2006-04-11

You voted those people in, suck it up.


Can you say "Diebold and Sequoia voting machines"?

Reply Score: 1

RE[2]: Alternative
by StephenBeDoper on Sun 22nd Jan 2012 19:56 UTC in reply to "RE: Alternative"
StephenBeDoper Member since:
2005-07-06

"On [Xaxis], the people are people. The leaders are lizards. The people hate the lizards and the lizards rule the people."

"Odd," said Arthur, "I thought you said it was a democracy."

"I did," said Ford. "It is."

"So," said Arthur, hoping he wasn't sounding ridiculously obtuse, "why don't the people get rid of the lizards?"

"It honestly doesn't occur to them," said Ford. "They've all got the vote, so they all pretty much assume that the government they've voted in more or less approximates to the government they want."

"You mean they actually vote for the lizards?"

"Oh yes," said Ford with a shrug, "of course."

"But," said Arthur, going for the big one again, "why?"

"Because if they didn't vote for a lizard," said Ford, "the wrong lizard might get in."

Reply Score: 6

RE[3]: Alternative
by zima on Fri 27th Jan 2012 23:23 UTC in reply to "RE[2]: Alternative"
zima Member since:
2005-07-06

That really calls also for the closing scene from animal farm, when the animals could hardly distinguish pigs from humans anymore.
Lizards come from the people.

they all pretty much assume that the government they've voted in more or less approximates to the government they want

And, well, it probably tends to somewhat approximate the gov they deserve...

Reply Score: 2

RE: Alternative
by Soulbender on Sun 22nd Jan 2012 06:33 UTC in reply to "Alternative"
Soulbender Member since:
2005-08-18

Or just work on getting root DNS servers out of US jurisdiction


Root servers I, K and M are not under US jurisdiction and they're all anycast.
Unfortunately the US Department of Commerce is still controlling the actual root zone but it would be relatively trivial, if the need should arise, for the non-US root servers to just use a different root.

Edited 2012-01-22 06:34 UTC

Reply Score: 4

Comment by andih
by andih on Sat 21st Jan 2012 23:44 UTC
andih
Member since:
2010-03-27

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rq_NTpniIR4&feature=colike

Bill Maher supports SOPA

sad. lost all respect for this guy

Ron Paul 2012, we need a revolution and bring back freedom.

Reply Score: 3

RE: Comment by andih
by earksiinni on Sun 22nd Jan 2012 00:21 UTC in reply to "Comment by andih"
earksiinni Member since:
2009-03-27

Oh, that is sad.

Reply Score: 2

Murdoch creating an evil genius
by unclefester on Sun 22nd Jan 2012 00:12 UTC
unclefester
Member since:
2007-01-13

The Murdoch press is busy creating a bizarre super villain named Kim Dot Com.

http://www.news.com.au/technology/the-avish-life-of-file-sharing-ki...

Reply Score: 3

ilovebeer Member since:
2011-08-08

The Murdoch press is busy creating a bizarre super villain named Kim Dot Com.

http://www.news.com.au/technology/the-avish-life-of-file-sharing-ki...

Yes, basically things are going according to plan.

Expect to see this return after our presidential election cycle.

Reply Score: 1

Doc Pain Member since:
2006-10-08

Yes, basically things are going according to plan.


And the required forms are already available:

I/we declare the the films/videos contain no obscene or immoral matter, nor any matter advocating or urging treason or insurrection against the United States, nor any threat to take the life of or inflict bodily harm upon any person in the United States."

Pink and blue receipt, sign here, here and here. Fingerprint over here. This is the receipt for your DVD... thank you... and this is my receipt for your receipt. :-)

Reply Score: 3

Soulbender Member since:
2005-08-18

Well, he's deinitely a criminal bastard and con-man but...evil genius? Hardly. Doesn't bother me much that justice has caught up with him again though.
Isn't it also ironic how someone who's empire is built on so many shoddy news papers that rely on freedom of the press to excuse their behaviour apparently don't want anyone else to have such freedom. Might be a bit of an ulterior motive there.

Reply Score: 4

Neelie Kroes
by mkools on Sun 22nd Jan 2012 04:30 UTC
mkools
Member since:
2005-10-11

So 'funny' that comment about Neelie Kroes. The EU is the most undemocratic system there is. We get to vote on nothing and The Pirate Bay was just blocked in The Netherlands.

If it was for our undemocratic European leaders to say they would fully control, monitor and filter the internet. They already doing that btw with a law that forces ISPs to save all internet and phone traffic.

Reply Score: 2

RE: Neelie Kroes
by Soulbender on Sun 22nd Jan 2012 08:38 UTC in reply to "Neelie Kroes"
Soulbender Member since:
2005-08-18

The EU is the most undemocratic system there is.


If that is what you truly think you have a huge lack of understanding. It might not be great but it sure isn't the most undemocratic system we have on this planet.

Reply Score: 3

v Boids and Girds.
by ParadoxUncreated on Sun 22nd Jan 2012 20:51 UTC
RE: Boids and Girds.
by StephenBeDoper on Mon 23rd Jan 2012 02:07 UTC in reply to "Boids and Girds."
StephenBeDoper Member since:
2005-07-06

Isn`t it time to grow up from piracy?

A big number of the people who oppose SOPA or similar things, seem to be people who worry about piratesites, or youtube-videos that infringe on rights.


That's a blatant red herring - specifically, the fallacy of guilt by association.

It isn`t the crowd you really wanna be with.


But does seem like the crowd that you want to lump opponents of SOPA in with - while not even acknowledging the existence prominent opponents of SOPA (and the like) who favour copyright reform. For example Michael Geist:

http://www.michaelgeist.ca/content/view/6250/135/

While that's only a single example, you'll note that it's still one more example than you've provided.

Reply Score: 4

RE[2]: Boids and Girds.
by ParadoxUncreated on Mon 23rd Jan 2012 08:35 UTC in reply to "RE: Boids and Girds."
ParadoxUncreated Member since:
2009-12-05

StephenBeDoper.. ;) lol. Why are talking to me?

Ok, so this guy is your god, and the crowd is ignored, and his arguments define the whole thing.

What I usually do if I find myself in a crowd of people I don`t sympathize with, is that I remove myself.

However here I am supposed to be in this crowd because of .. Michale Geist. The one example that changed the world.

Well ok, I know that some people do actually change the world. I just spendt some time discussing with atheists and their oxymoron "random coherence", trying to make that obviously an error, by logical explanations, they did not listen. Instead I had "no meaning" "no significance in the universe" etc etc.
Ofcoures MICHAL GEIST has significance in the universe. Funny how atheists talk against themselves allmost all the time. You are that aren`t you Dopy, since you attacked me here before? I mean just deviant atheists/gays do that.

The first thing I see on Michael Geists website is "my website went dark tyesterday". Could you atleast link to a relevant post on his site?

And no I don`t consider a statement about blacking out, very relevant to why sopa is good or bad.

You know usually what I do is look at the crowd. If there is a crowd of quite good and moral, monotheistic people, I am inclined to be interested, as I see these as my own people.

If the crowd is as I said, people who talk about how bad it is if their video that infringes on rights, goes down, because it was popular, and the artists deserve nothing, and popularity it supposed to go to the infringer instead, well, that is gonna be stamped as the lamest possible in my book.

Not people I support, want to be seen with or have any sympathy with.

PS: Beware of not-that-interested-so-typing-fast-and-with-errors-shaytan.

Edited 2012-01-23 08:37 UTC

Reply Score: 0

RE[3]: Boids and Girds.
by ParadoxUncreated on Mon 23rd Jan 2012 09:14 UTC in reply to "RE[2]: Boids and Girds."
ParadoxUncreated Member since:
2009-12-05

Btw I looked at his article in Toronto Star too.

..

Lol, wikipedia went down. AAH good I am thinking let people find other alternatives. The lameness of many of the editers there is excruciatingly annoying for us on the cutting edge of research, who cannot post there, unless it gets deleted.

So you will always have to deal with old and "accepted" knowledge there, and never grow. Stay with the atheist claiming absurd properties for radnomness. Well atleast he is on his way out, with quantum consciousness. But science wont be right until they accept and understand that the only logical possiblity is GOD, as creator and only force behind everything, and something they cannot tamper with.

Craigslist went down too.. Again, not a site I have a very good impression of. Seems very poor design wise. Any of us used to design from the demoscene of amiga days, knows that effective and beautiful design can be combined, and unforunately the art seemed to get lost on windows, and later on the internet, and I cannot feel other than that they are eons behind. Which is ofcourse not just related to craigslist, but I have no good impression of it.

He makes some kind of fuss about sopa targeting IP adresses.
I saw someone claiming the facebook might go down, because of sopa.

I don`t think sopa was meant for facebook, or any similar site, or youtube either. As they are sites that are not about piracy. But sites like wareztorrents.org etc, will ofcourse go down.

If ofcourse facebook and youtube would disappear because of it, it would be a bit strange, I don`t think these laws were wanted because of that. I don`t think they were meant to be used nonsensically.

Even if facebook, and youtube should go down, what then? Gee, I`m gonna have to go out or something. *PANIC PANIC* STOP SOPA NOW!!!!! (lol)

No seriously. And ofcourse then you have EURABIA coming on all sides too. Lol, no more booze and whoring. *panic panic* join EDL now.

Nah, you know what I think? There is a lot of lame arguments, mainy done on the internet, without much identity, that probably would not do this, IRL. Once one of the online newspapers here changed to facebook comments, most of the deviance went away. Threats went away, comments going way over the line, went away.

And back was the usual noise, for instance, when I discuss Islam, and it`s positive aspects, someone USUALLY makes a comment about pedofilia, about murder, about this or that, that is completely out of line with Islamic morality. But you know, if you sit out there in that noise, having that trash in your head, how the hell are you making a valid choice on anything?

Does Michael Geist fear ipsuppression because of SOPA too? No, I think the whole thing is absurd. Some intelligent men disbelieves and is with the beast, because otherwise he is not cool, and enjoys some status as idol, among them.

Unfortunately most people do no posess high intelligence. Few does. But when those few try to cater to the masses, they forget that the masses should follow them instead. And instead become proponents of lesser thought out ideas.

Ofcourse if you have a mind, you see a problem with warez. You see illegality, and injustice. Then again, some programmers are truly f--kwits, and should deserve no money on their software. I do believe however that good software, can only be made by decent people, and that you see with Linux. High quality system, made by a lot of decent people, without some dude being able to harass you and claim idolship because of his software, and be a general nuisance because you have to deal with him, and his software.

So in the end what are you going to do? Atleast OSwise, information could be flowing freely, anyone could participate, and everyone would be happy. We don`t need strong marketforces there, and specialists could ofcourse be hired, to change or alter the software, and then intelligent people could have a job with that, as they deserve.
However as an artist, I do not believe in copyright infringement.
A lot of what I do, I spendt quite a lot of time on, and I have refined my skill to quite a high level. That some retarded joe on the internet, is going to claim being forinstance a collector of my work, and mistreating me on the internet because of it, etc. Ofcourse I want trash like that stopped. I want to make a living of what I do. That is the only way more can be produced. Etc. And I have also contributed some software to the linux community, and feel that is ok. If your only skill is programming, it gets a bit hard to say who did what, and make money on that, in linux. But that might be possible aswell. A completely online system, with a linux-distribution, that recognizes the efforts made, by who, and makes some kind of percentage, out of sold distributions online.
But heeey you say then, wouldn`t that make lameridiotprogrammer bloat the whole system, to gain more percentages, well yeah. So forget about that I guess.
LOL.
No atleast we see some small changes that can be done, and should be done. No need to change everything.
Society evolves and iterates to perfection, based on the human soul.

PS: I just very quickly dumped some of my thoughts down in this post, I really do not take much effort with online communication these days. Nobody seems to get it anyway.

So peace be with you. May the blessings and praises of God be with you, in realization of the perfect nature of God and soul, and his universe and creation.

Praised be God, The We, the mind that is nowhere, that consciously creates everything, and therefore is present behind everything, observing and knowing well what he creates and arranges, and therefore "omnipresent"

Praised be First Paradox, the fundamental principle, that ultimately does as it wishes.

PEEEEEEEEEAAAAAAAAAAAAACCCCCCCCCCCEEEEEEEEEEEE. (now you can complain about caps/repeater and completely miss out the point of enjoying your life)

Edited 2012-01-23 09:19 UTC

Reply Score: 0

RE[4]: Boids and Girds.
by StephenBeDoper on Mon 23rd Jan 2012 14:33 UTC in reply to "RE[3]: Boids and Girds."
StephenBeDoper Member since:
2005-07-06

So peace be with you. May the blessings and praises of God be with you, in realization of the perfect nature of God and soul, and his universe and creation.

Praised be God, The We, the mind that is nowhere, that consciously creates everything, and therefore is present behind everything, observing and knowing well what he creates and arranges, and therefore "omnipresent"

Praised be First Paradox, the fundamental principle, that ultimately does as it wishes.


Oh, I see, you've apparently confused OSNews.com with TimeCube.com. Now excuse me as I smile, nod, and back away slowly (a reaction that you're accustomed to, no doubt).

Edited 2012-01-23 14:33 UTC

Reply Score: 2

v RE[5]: Boids and Girds.
by ParadoxUncreated on Mon 23rd Jan 2012 17:58 UTC in reply to "RE[4]: Boids and Girds."
RE[6]: Boids and Girds.
by StephenBeDoper on Tue 24th Jan 2012 17:03 UTC in reply to "RE[5]: Boids and Girds."
StephenBeDoper Member since:
2005-07-06

"I smile, nod, and back away slowly" Yeah some gays do that. Particulary on the internet with /action.

And now back the f--k away, because decent people are coming through.

Hahaha, you're just an all-around classy guy, aren't you?

What are you doing on OSNews anyway? You'd find the level of discourse in youTube comments a bit more your speed - your pseudo-scientific rambling would fit right with the folks who like to post "it's just a theory" comments on videos about evolution.

This will my last reply to you, BTW. In my old age, I guess I just no longer see the enterainment value in the insane flailing of internet kooks.

Reply Score: 2

RE[3]: Boids and Girds.
by StephenBeDoper on Mon 23rd Jan 2012 14:28 UTC in reply to "RE[2]: Boids and Girds."
StephenBeDoper Member since:
2005-07-06

StephenBeDoper.. ;) lol. Why are talking to me?


When you post a comment on a public forum, other people can (and often do) post replies. Welcome to the Internet.

Funny how atheists talk against themselves allmost all the time. You are that aren`t you Dopy, since you attacked me here before? I mean just deviant atheists/gays do that.


...okay then, thank you for making it unambiguously clear that you're either trolling, have serious difficulties reading for comprehension, or are merely incapable of civil, adult discourse. And I certainly wouldn't rule out the possiblity that it's equal measures of all 3.

You know usually what I do is look at the crowd. If there is a crowd of quite good and moral, monotheistic people, I am inclined to be interested, as I see these as my own people.


Yes, wouldn't want any nasty dissenting opinions to ruin the acoustics of your echo chamber.

If the crowd is as I said, people who talk about how bad it is if their video that infringes on rights, goes down, because it was popular, and the artists deserve nothing, and popularity it supposed to go to the infringer instead, well, that is gonna be stamped as the lamest possible in my book.


In other words, you've reduced the for/against SOPA debate to a false dichotomy by trying to paint all all opponents of SOPA as people who just want to to infringe with impunity. But still, thank you for reminding me of why it's bad idea enter into debate with anyone who thinks that "lol" is punctuation.

Have a nice day.

Reply Score: 4

Comment by Luminair
by Luminair on Mon 23rd Jan 2012 03:00 UTC
Luminair
Member since:
2007-03-30

People can't stop the modification and perversion of the open internet forever. Eventually their protests will fail, and one time is all the bad guys need.

The internet will be lost. The new internet will be private encrypted networks. Until the war comes to encryption -- privacy prevents security, after all.

Another day, another battle along the path... to the privacy war

Reply Score: 4

Comment by zima
by zima on Fri 27th Jan 2012 23:32 UTC in reply to "Comment by Luminair"
zima Member since:
2005-07-06

And it would be "funny" if we'll make, via this under-net, a circle / back to modem speeds...

Reply Score: 2

Pot, meet kettle.
by manjabes on Mon 23rd Jan 2012 06:43 UTC
manjabes
Member since:
2005-08-27

On January 26 the European Parliament will most probably vote in favour of the ACTA so there's nothing to be happy about. Same shit, different asshole. That makes the loud noise European politicians make about SOPA/PIPA all the more ridiculous. Both socialists and conservatives, some even have confessed that, no, they have not read the treaty text themselves "because it's so darn freakin' long!" but, nevertheless, voted the "right" way in the previous occasion and most probably will do the same on thursday.

Reply Score: 2

RE: Pot, meet kettle.
by zima on Fri 27th Jan 2012 23:28 UTC in reply to "Pot, meet kettle."
zima Member since:
2005-07-06

Both socialists and conservatives

Dispensing of, not clinging to pointless labels would probably help too, long term - at my place (EU, largish), conservative parties are also among most socialist ones... (even if they tend to avoid the s-word)

Reply Score: 2

Revolution in Poland
by agentj on Mon 23rd Jan 2012 09:15 UTC
agentj
Member since:
2005-08-19

Polish government sites are being constantly hacked and DDOSed. There will be protests all over major Polish cities.

Reply Score: 4